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View Full Version : Dialing into the LA planet to prevent a dial out.



Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 08:36 AM
I haven't watched SG-1's "Memento" in a while, but I believe that's the episode that establishes that the Earth ships use gate addresses to navigate. Which means for the Hammond to be able to get to the LA planet, Telford would have provided a gate address. Meaning the SGC could have dialed in to prevent the LA from dialing out while Carter's strike team moved in.

The only things I could see that would prevent them from dialing in are:

1. In Air Scott says something about the Icarus gate being modified to prevent dial ins because of the power being tied in from the planets core or something. It is possible that the LA did this as well but it isn't stated explicitly.

2. Earth ships have some other way of navigating now and Telford gave them some other type of coordinate besides a gate address.

Idk, this is really just nit picking, but I wish they had addressed this point because I keep thinking that would have been the best thing for them to do.

thekillman
June 5th, 2010, 09:09 AM
gate adresses ARE coordinates. if you have coordinates, the adress can be calculated, if you have an adress, coordinates can be calculated.

however since the LA stole pretty much all of earth's tech from the looks of it, they probably figured out how to prevent dialling in. even Kiva got there by ship, not stargate

Kaiphantom
June 5th, 2010, 09:10 AM
It's actually a fair point. It's a little bit of a stretch that the LA would have deliberately modified the gate so that it couldn't accept incoming wormholes, but possible. The best thing would have been for the Hammond to beam up a stargate, and have the Alpha site dial it as soon as it arrived. That way, the LA gate wouldn't have been able to dial at all.

And where's the Daedalus, the Apollo, and the Sun-Tzu?

Kaiphantom
June 5th, 2010, 09:10 AM
Oops, double post.

thekillman
June 5th, 2010, 09:18 AM
It's actually a fair point. It's a little bit of a stretch that the LA would have deliberately modified the gate so that it couldn't accept incoming wormholes, but possible. The best thing would have been for the Hammond to beam up a stargate, and have the Alpha site dial it as soon as it arrived. That way, the LA gate wouldn't have been able to dial at all.

And where's the Daedalus, the Apollo, and the Sun-Tzu?

1: perhaps, but there wasn't time. actually they were already dialling so no point in that. besides, the dial-in technique was a trademark of the Wraith and happened before in the MW. it's basically standard tactics.

2: those ships are probably undergoing SERIOUS repairs.

Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 09:18 AM
It's actually a fair point. It's a little bit of a stretch that the LA would have deliberately modified the gate so that it couldn't accept incoming wormholes, but possible. The best thing would have been for the Hammond to beam up a stargate, and have the Alpha site dial it as soon as it arrived. That way, the LA gate wouldn't have been able to dial at all.


Yeah I didn't even think of that. They could have just as easily beamed up their gate.


And where's the Daedalus, the Apollo, and the Sun-Tzu?

Wasn't the Sun Tzu crippled in the void between PG and MW in EATG? I guess they could have salvaged it. Daedalus and Apollo probably in PG. But what about the Odyssey? Last we heard it was on some uber secret mission.

Kaiphantom
June 5th, 2010, 09:48 AM
The facility was shielded, so they couldn't beam up anyone or anything.

The Sun-Tzu was crippled, but no word if it could have been repaired. I assume they would have repaired it eventually, even if it took heading out there with another ship after SGA with repair parts. That still leaves the Daedalus and Apollo, though.

Werewolfhero
June 5th, 2010, 10:08 AM
Wasn't exclusively a trademark of the Wraith, the Goa'uld did it in a few episodes too

IMForeman
June 5th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Heck, if they just carry a Pegasus gate around with them, they don't even have to dial it. The Pegasus gates always seem to take precedent over the Milky Way gates.

s09119
June 5th, 2010, 10:11 AM
As we learned in "Air, Part 1," the way a stargate has to be connected to an Icarus-type planet's core prevents dial ins. Once it's been tied into the naquadria deposits, all you can do is dial out and hope it works.

Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 10:12 AM
Heck, if they just carry a Pegasus gate around with them, they don't even have to dial it. The Pegasus gates always seem to take precedent over the Milky Way gates.

They should make pegasus gates standard issue on the 304's lolz.

pbellosom
June 5th, 2010, 10:14 AM
Heck, if they just carry a Pegasus gate around with them, they don't even have to dial it. The Pegasus gates always seem to take precedent over the Milky Way gates.

When have we seen that?

Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 10:15 AM
when have we seen that?

eatg

hedwig
June 5th, 2010, 10:34 AM
eatg

I could be misremembering, but Atlantis couldn't dial earth because the super-wraith ship's gate had already dialed earth and was blocking it, so it didn't matter that Atlantis' gate was also in proximity to earth.

IMForeman
June 5th, 2010, 10:38 AM
You are misremembering. Carter states that part of the problem with setting up Midway was the Pegasus Gate would always supersede the Milky Way Gate, and that they needed to make a workaround for it to prevent that problem. The Wraith hadn't dialed anywhere, as witnessed, Rodney, Ronon, Teyla and Lorne were able to gate to the ship.

Arwis
June 5th, 2010, 10:59 AM
They knew about that they were planning to dial destiny so 1st logical step should be dialing them to prevent dial out.

In case this blocked 2nd obvious option would be: stop on the planet which is on the way to destination, pick up stargates (this wouldn't take more than few seconds) and once you are at 2nd icarus planet dial gates from orbit so they couldn't dial out too. (ghould's were doing that) so come on? That's the big mistake by SGC!

IMForeman
June 5th, 2010, 11:25 AM
They knew about that they were planning to dial destiny so 1st logical step should be dialing them to prevent dial out.

In case this blocked 2nd obvious option would be: stop on the planet which is on the way to destination, pick up stargates (this wouldn't take more than few seconds) and once you are at 2nd icarus planet dial gates from orbit so they couldn't dial out too. (ghould's were doing that) so come on? That's the big mistake by SGC!

I really don't think it is. This mission was a "Time is of the essence, seconds count" kind of situation. They needed to get there quickly. Not stop by some planet that has a Stargate they don't need, beam it up, get it set-up in a room big enough to hold it. Hook it to the ship's power systems. Set up a dialing system.

They needed to hoof it to the planet.

KEK
June 5th, 2010, 11:36 AM
The gate on Icarus had been modified so that it didn't accept incoming wormholes for safety reasons, presumably the Lucian Alliance would have done the same with theirs.

hedwig
June 5th, 2010, 01:34 PM
You are misremembering. Carter states that part of the problem with setting up Midway was the Pegasus Gate would always supersede the Milky Way Gate, and that they needed to make a workaround for it to prevent that problem. The Wraith hadn't dialed anywhere, as witnessed, Rodney, Ronon, Teyla and Lorne were able to gate to the ship.

A bit OT:

From "Enemy at the Gate" - the hive ship was blocking earth's gate:

(Walter Harriman walks over to Sam.)

HARRIMAN: 'Scuse me, Colonel.

CARTER: What is it, Walter?

HARRIMAN: We've been trying to dial up the Alpha site to send through those I.O.A. dignitaries ...

DAVIS (sarcastically): Typical I.O.A. – courageous to the end(!)

(Sam smiles in agreement, then turns back to Walter.)

CARTER: What's the problem?

HARRIMAN: Can't establish a lock. And it's not just the Alpha site. I've already tried a couple of alternates but for some reason the Gate's offline.

***********

ATLANTIS. Radek has done his recalibrations and the Stargate kawhooshes. Richard walks into the Control Room and speaks to Amelia.

WOOLSEY: Open a channel.

(Amelia types, then looks at Richard.)

WOOLSEY: Stargate Command, this is Atlantis. ... Stargate Command, this is Atlantis, do you read?

BANKS: Comm system is operating, sir. They're just not responding.

McKAY (looking at his console): OK, this is weird. I'm picking up an energy signature feeding back through the wormhole. It's Wraith.

WOOLSEY: The Wraith are at Stargate Command?!

McKAY: No. These readings are more like something you'd pick up in the middle of a Hive.

WOOLSEY: But we dialled Earth.

ZELENKA: You don't think that ...

McKAY: Standard Wraith procedure. Keep your victims from dialing out.

WOOLSEY: What are you talking about?

McKAY: There's a Gate on the Hive!

WOOLSEY: What?!

McKAY: The Wraith always try to block the Gate of a planet they're attacking, usually by dialling in. They couldn't do that in this case so they came up with another solution.

ZELENKA: You see, when two Gates are in proximity, one supersedes the other. Usually it's the default Gate – unless it happens to be a Milky Way model and the other one's from Pegasus.

McKAY: We encountered exactly the same problem on the Midway Station. We had to create a work-around to prevent the Pegasus Gate from always taking precedence.

WOOLSEY: You're telling me that wormhole ... (he turns and looks at the Gate) ...

McKAY: ... leads directly onto the Hive.

(Richard turns back and looks at him thoughtfully. Rodney's eyes widen.)

**************

the team destroys the hive, thus allowing earth's gate to be used again.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
June 5th, 2010, 01:40 PM
i think that Universe takes place 6 months after EATG cause according to Joe Mallozzi the special mission that the odyssey was on was to find the icarus planet (P4X-351).

Major_Griff
June 5th, 2010, 01:54 PM
i think that Universe takes place 6 months after EATG cause according to Joe Mallozzi the special mission that the odyssey was on was to find the icarus planet (P4X-351).

Why would that be so super secret that Caldwell would be kept out of the loop on it?

Radz
June 5th, 2010, 03:13 PM
They could not beam the stargate OUT because of the shielding...otherwise they could beam Rush/Telford out.

It's not even certain that bringing another stargate into orbit would have had any effect. The destiny address is a code rather than cooridinates. It may allow the stargate to dial out regardless of proximity to another active stargate.

Inquisitor
June 5th, 2010, 11:40 PM
It's not even certain that bringing another stargate into orbit would have had any effect. The destiny address is a code rather than cooridinates. It may allow the stargate to dial out regardless of proximity to another active stargate.

Earth couldn't dial the Alpha site because of the Pegasus gate on the Wraith ship.

I don't understand why the writers wouldn't employ gates on ships. It's a perfect way to transport personnel and they could set up (SG-1 Season 10 mid season two parter) The Quest system to transport all personnel off the ship in a worst case scenario.

Sim
June 6th, 2010, 01:21 AM
I would imagine like people have said there are safe guards preventing a dial-in.

Wouldn't that suck if you spent all this time and resource into this project and then some random farmer from another planet wants to establish a bean trade with your planet and BOOM!

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 01:49 AM
i think that Universe takes place 6 months after EATG cause according to Joe Mallozzi the special mission that the odyssey was on was to find the icarus planet (P4X-351).

I don't remember Joe saying that.

However, I do remember him saying that Air took place a week or so after EATG. That's why they had to take the hot-off-the-presses Hammond to get to Icarus instead of using the other ships, as they were still heavily damaged by the EATG battles.

garhkal
June 6th, 2010, 03:56 AM
gate adresses ARE coordinates. if you have coordinates, the adress can be calculated, if you have an adress, coordinates can be calculated.

however since the LA stole pretty much all of earth's tech from the looks of it, they probably figured out how to prevent dialling in. even Kiva got there by ship, not stargate

But why could they not have used the "Wraith's Tactic" and have a gate on the Hammond, which dialed out somewhere.


Wasn't exclusively a trademark of the Wraith, the Goa'uld did it in a few episodes too


I cannot remember any episodes they did that, other than when they went after the Tok'Ra in season 4 iirc.


I really don't think it is. This mission was a "Time is of the essence, seconds count" kind of situation. They needed to get there quickly. Not stop by some planet that has a Stargate they don't need, beam it up, get it set-up in a room big enough to hold it. Hook it to the ship's power systems. Set up a dialing system.

Then they could have beamed up the SGC's gate, and dialed out to the Alpha site once they got there...

Solokiller
June 6th, 2010, 06:29 AM
The goa'ould used that tactic in the season 1 finale.

MrMann101
June 6th, 2010, 07:52 AM
I agree with PG15. I think it's much more likley that 'AIR' will probably take place in the next two or three weeks or so after 'EATG', as in the 'Air Force Training Video's' i'm pretty sure Daniel mentions something like:

"The first six symbols were found and Icarus Base was established on a planet discovered two-years ago whcih has an extreamly powerful core".
This seams to mean that the base had probably been operational for at least a year, but the team had only been there around six-months (which is mentioned multiple times throughout the seriees).
This is also backed up in 'HUMAN' & 'SABOTAGE' when it is revealed that Rush was brought into the project around two years before 'AIR'. His team (Amanda Perry etc.) were working on how to tie the gate into the planets core for power without blowing everything up when they would dial-out, which is why incoming wormholes are so dangerous. They would probably connect, but the energy produced by the gate would cause a huge reaction in the core, just as incoming fire from Ships/Gliders/302's does, which is we couldn't dial in in 'INCURSION' withouth destroying the planet itself, The Hammond and Rush/Telford. Look at all the power that was transferred through the Destiny gate in both 'AIR' & 'INCURSION'. The latter time even Destinie's systems were disrupted. As the core becomes more and more unstable, a lot of that enrgy is pumped into the only viable 'escape route', the gate, whcih explains why when connected to Destiny via an Icarus type planet people who walk/scramble through the Stargate are thrown three or four yards.

In spoilers to keep the reply small.

PG15
June 6th, 2010, 02:51 PM
But why could they not have used the "Wraith's Tactic" and have a gate on the Hammond, which dialed out somewhere.

Wouldn't they need time to calibrate the gate to that specific location in space?

KEK
June 6th, 2010, 03:22 PM
They never even knew there was a gate on the planet until they got there, and even then they had no idea they were trying to dial Destiny.

Major_Griff
June 7th, 2010, 04:09 AM
They never even knew there was a gate on the planet until they got there, and even then they had no idea they were trying to dial Destiny.

Yeah they did. Why do you think Young was preparing for an LA incursion through the gate?

rsanchez
June 7th, 2010, 07:40 AM
Why would that be so super secret that Caldwell would be kept out of the loop on it?
Telford leaked the secret and they didn't even know he was compromised. Caldwell had already been compromised once before. They probably did not want him in on a secret of Destiny's magnitude. I suspect there are still a few people higher up that feel Caldwell can't be trusted with too much, since he turned into a Goa'uld before. Why do they trust him with beam weapons then? He was already a ship commander when he was compromised, and I assume it's not that easy to train people to command a ship and Caldwell's experience is too valuable to just give him a desk job. It's just not valuable enough to let him know about Destiny.

dgh64
June 7th, 2010, 10:08 AM
Hmm... maybe all our battleships should just carry around a gate at all times so we can prevent enemy gate activity. And they'd be able to go back and forth to Earth any time they wanted.

Regarding Icarus's gate not being able to accept an incoming wormhole, I think it was a safety measure the SGC put in (have to rewatch Air to be sure), because with the gate connected to the planet's core an incoming wormhole might have made the planet blow up. It's reasonable to assume the LA would do the same thing.

Major_Griff
June 7th, 2010, 03:09 PM
Hmm... maybe all our battleships should just carry around a gate at all times so we can prevent enemy gate activity. And they'd be able to go back and forth to Earth any time they wanted.


And they've got all those PG gates from the gate bridge just floating around in the intergalactic void just waiting to be used for such a purpose.

dgh64
June 7th, 2010, 03:36 PM
You know, I had forgotten about the gate bridge. They should be using those as weapons. Maybe dial one to a black hole and drop it on someone's doorstep, or use it to blow up another star like Carter did when Apophis attacked the Tok'ra... the possibilities are endless...

TheRandomOne
June 7th, 2010, 04:00 PM
You know, I had forgotten about the gate bridge. They should be using those as weapons. Maybe dial one to a black hole and drop it on someone's doorstep, or use it to blow up another star like Carter did when Apophis attacked the Tok'ra... the possibilities are endless...

Carter should go around blowing up Lucian Alliance planets

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

garhkal
June 8th, 2010, 04:57 AM
Then we would be just as bad as the Gou;ald..

jelgate
June 8th, 2010, 06:26 AM
Then we would be just as bad as the Gou;ald..
I didn't realize we were conducting mass murder and enslavemenrt

Steelbox
June 8th, 2010, 07:32 AM
One thing is certain. IF the gate was dialed, exceeding energy would wave been directed into the core. Making it go critical and explode. The SGC was not trying to blow it up, but to capture it. Also SGC should keep an Pegasus gate stored aboard an SHIP with it's DHD disconnected, so they can use it on orbit of other planets. Get there, reconnect the DHD and take precedence over the one on the ground of the planet.

garhkal
June 12th, 2010, 04:05 AM
I didn't realize we were conducting mass murder and enslavemenrt

That was in response to the post above mine about "Blowing up LA planets.

Evilshin
June 12th, 2010, 09:34 PM
There's no question in my mind, that the whole idea of dialing in to prevent a dial out was forgotten by the writers, perhaps conveniently. Keep in mind there are tonnes of questions one can impose, such as where's the other earth ships? Where are all the free Jaffa? Where's Atlantis. If this IS such a big issue why not take Atlantis out for a spin? Where are the Ori ships? Aren't they supposed to be allies by then? Where's all those Asgard tech that the people of Earth inherited.

But then if you ask these silly questions, you start to ask things like: Why can't they use the worm hole drive Zelenka discovered to meet up with the Destiny? Don't they already know of another Icarus planet one with lots of naqahdriah deposits: Langara (Jonas Quinn's planet)? I suppose the morally good people of earth would never consider sacrificing an entire planet full of people for their own gain... But what about the LA? Wouldn't they have little issue with killing people for their own gain?

Plot holes, plot holes....

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
June 13th, 2010, 06:12 AM
But we can't just take any gate in the MW too the planet as the default gate would take precedent. I just don't get the point of putting a peg gate on a 304 when the only enemy in the MW is the LA who use ships, so we don't really need to attack planets and stop them from dialing out.

I'm sick people saying just because they don't use a certain piece of technology it's a plothole all of a sudden.

happy
June 23rd, 2010, 11:42 AM
Carrying around stargates on ships like Hammond just sounds like an enormously bad idea.

They couldn't just have it there 'cause anyone could just dial to the ship, throw in a big stun bomb and disable everyone on the ship. Has everyone forgotten how the super wraith ship fell? Whenever the bad guys have a big shiny new ship be it Goa'uld, Ori or Wraith, it's always the reason they're taken: they have a gate on the ship.

They couldn't have it there with an iris 'cause what if some random person wanting to dial the planet the ship is orbiting but reached the ship instead, stepped through and killed themselves.

Hell, it's even a bad idea to have a disabled gate on the ship 'cause what if they wanted to use the gate on the planet?

FallenAngelII
June 25th, 2010, 01:54 PM
Don't they already know of another Icarus planet one with lots of naqahdriah deposits: Langara (Jonas Quinn's planet)? I suppose the morally good people of earth would never consider sacrificing an entire planet full of people for their own gain... But what about the LA? Wouldn't they have little issue with killing people for their own gain?

Plot holes, plot holes....
The last question has a very obvious answer:
If the Lucian Alliance had invaded Langara and enslaved/murdered all of its inhabitants, word would've gotten out about it. Eventually, the people of Earth would find out about it and realize what they were up to. There's no way they'd have enough time to set up their base and finish their work before Earth ships would be on their doorstep to blow them up to Kingdom Come.

And even if they did manage to escape, then Earth would still know what they were up to, which would make it exceedingly difficult to try again.

The other stuff are plot holes without logical questions, though.