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randomking
June 4th, 2010, 07:32 PM
it seems to me that if he was brain washed she (LA leader chick/girl) would have known it thus when he told her its me...gave her the code told her y its that code she would have realized .."grait they unbrain washed you ""bang""...she would not have trusted him let alone with 6 of her men


what you think?

the fifth man
June 4th, 2010, 07:34 PM
I think the next episode will really tell. I am not fully ready to trust Telford yet.

Loheat
June 4th, 2010, 07:36 PM
Or she thought that the brainwashing was still working because he used the codeword. I think they think the brainwashing is permanent because the only reason Telford broke free from it is because he died

Coronach
June 4th, 2010, 07:36 PM
I'm confused, as I don't think you're thinking about this in the right way. He was brainwashed in such a way that he was (essentially) under her control, so him giving her the information is exactly in line with what she'd expect from him. The code was actually her way of knowing it was really him and that he was still under her influence.

Of course, she probably didn't plan on someone un-brainwashing him.

randomking
June 4th, 2010, 07:40 PM
tru and who knows if she knows that it can..or how to undue it...
(altho i think they would know) but you cant deni it was a big leap for her to trust her with even 6 of her men

(p.s i missed the first 5 mins so if there were any tru tips towards the brain wash such as how she reacted towards it then ok...but it seems like a this is turning into a double super cover ninja spy thing)

Spimman
June 4th, 2010, 08:27 PM
Yes, I believe he was...otherwise I think he could have taken Young already.

Pharaoh Atem
June 4th, 2010, 08:29 PM
yes. but now that he "died" he's back to his old self

_SocraticMethod
June 4th, 2010, 08:38 PM
Anyone else still waiting for someone to drop the term "Rite of M'al Sharran"?? It'd be nice for continuity's sake... (I'm assuming that's the past case they're referring to...)

jelgate
June 4th, 2010, 08:38 PM
I think given what Incursion showed that Telford was indeed brainwashed

Pharaoh Atem
June 4th, 2010, 08:39 PM
Anyone else still waiting for someone to drop the term "Rite of M'al Sharran"?? It'd be nice for continuity's sake... (I'm assuming that's the past case they're referring to...)

someone made a thread last ep about that.

Loheat
June 4th, 2010, 08:41 PM
someone made a thread last ep about that.

Yeah, I think Telford's line is all we're gonna get, but its still a nice bonus for us SG-1 nerds

_SocraticMethod
June 4th, 2010, 08:42 PM
someone made a thread last ep about that.

Mhmmm, I saw that. I'm just waiting for a *character* to mention it.

Pharaoh Atem
June 4th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Mhmmm, I saw that. I'm just waiting for a *character* to mention it.

oh no one on destiny every heard of a jaffa. remember we're not supposed to be know the other 2 series took place. IMO.

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Anyone else still waiting for someone to drop the term "Rite of M'al Sharran"?? It'd be nice for continuity's sake... (I'm assuming that's the past case they're referring to...)

yeah thats what i was thinking of , that and the time they zatted teal'c's son.

_SocraticMethod
June 4th, 2010, 08:48 PM
oh no one on destiny every heard of a jaffa. remember we're not supposed to be know the other 2 series took place. IMO.

But, I'm pretty sure we got a small (if vague) reference from either Young or Telford... I can't remember exactly now. I'm going to have wait until I rewatch tomorrow...

Anyone else remember the line? Or am I off my rocker here? (...wait, don't answer that! :P)

jelgate
June 4th, 2010, 08:50 PM
But, I'm pretty sure we got a small (if vague) reference from either Young or Telford... I can't remember exactly now. I'm going to have wait until I rewatch tomorrow...

Anyone else remember the line? Or am I off my rocker here? (...wait, don't answer that! :P)
A mention of bringing someone to near death causes an end to brainwashing but thats a long way from Rite of Mal'Sharan.

Loheat
June 4th, 2010, 08:55 PM
A mention of bringing someone to near death causes an end to brainwashing but thats a long way from Rite of Mal'Sharan.

He did say "Ive heard of that working before" which I'm pretty sure thats what he was referring to

Will have to rewatch but I think Teal'c actually dies then is brought back with the paddles

jelgate
June 4th, 2010, 08:58 PM
He did say "Ive heard of that working before" which I'm pretty sure thats what he was referring to

Will have to rewatch but I think Teal'c actually dies then is brought back with the paddles

Thats a long way from the rite thought. A rite is a ritual or procedure you do ie in the removal of a symbiote. Just because they have the same result doesn't mean they are the same

_SocraticMethod
June 4th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Thats a long way from the rite thought. A rite is a ritual or procedure you do ie in the removal of a symbiote. Just because they have the same result doesn't mean they are the same

True. But the principle appears to be the same. (i.e. bringing one close to death, or past and back again, in order to reverse the effects of brainwashing.)

jelgate
June 4th, 2010, 09:20 PM
True. But the principle appears to be the same. (i.e. bringing one close to death, or past and back again, in order to reverse the effects of brainwashing.)

Thier is a lot of things that brings a person to near death to correct a problem. Do all of those count as the rite as well?

GateroomGuard
June 4th, 2010, 09:26 PM
Personally I think Telford is working for a yet unknown third party.

RJLCyberPunk
June 4th, 2010, 09:29 PM
Or she thought that the brainwashing was still working because he used the codeword. I think they think the brainwashing is permanent because the only reason Telford broke free from it is because he died

Apparently, we shall see by the next episode won't we. While he may had been brainwashed I believe that part of him believes what he said about Earth anyway. That's what allowed the brainwashing to work so well my opinion anyway.


Personally I think Telford is working for a yet unknown third party.

Who? The Blue Aliens?

_SocraticMethod
June 4th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Thier is a lot of things that brings a person to near death to correct a problem. Do all of those count as the rite as well?

*This* doesn't even necessarily count as the Rite. My point was simply that it seems that's where the inspiration for this idea came from. We've had a vague reference already with the "Ive heard of that working before". Also in "Subversion" there were numerous suggestions that this was Goa'uld brainwashing, and brainwashing of a sort that we've seen before (i.e when Young said to O'Neill - "If I'm not mistaken, you've had first hand experience with this" or something to that effect). In our experience, Gould brainwashing has been countered with (a) a zat, and (b) the Rite. Inspiration for the idea does not make this the Rite, but I don't think that precludes a reference. IMO, there's no way Jack would've okayed Young's actions ("Do what you need to do, Colonel" from Subversion) if he didn't think there was some evidence to suggest that the tactic would work.

GateroomGuard
June 4th, 2010, 09:38 PM
Who? The Blue Aliens?

No, some group we haven't encountered yet. Maybe the Trust, Tokra, Goau'ld remnants, ect. I just feel like Telford has an agenda that is apart from the Destiny crew and Lucian Alliance. The whole brainwashing, unbrainwashing, him helping Young, it all feels to convienent. But I'm probably just hoping there is more to it.

VampyreWraith
June 4th, 2010, 09:50 PM
Thats a long way from the rite thought. A rite is a ritual or procedure you do ie in the removal of a symbiote. Just because they have the same result doesn't mean they are the same

I don't think anyone is saying that the rite of malsharon (can't spell it lol) was used on telford just that what happened was similar to it, and it wouldve been a nice hat tip to sg1 to mention it. :)

pipi
June 5th, 2010, 01:53 AM
It appears that he was brainwashed. Telford did say that he remembers everything that he has done while he was brainwashed, so he knows how to 'act' the part to remain undetected.

Commander Zelix
June 5th, 2010, 06:01 AM
Or maybe Telford only pretended to "get his mind back" knowing full well that being close to die was supposed to get rid of his brainwash. Thus saving his reputation and cover with the human. While ditching the LA which must consider him disposable anyway at that time, since his cover was blown. Just a theory. ;)

Jedi_Master_Bra'tac
June 5th, 2010, 06:40 AM
I was the one who mentioned the rite last ep. Removing the symbiote is just a means of bringing the Jaffa close to death. Obviously they couldn't do that with Telford, so they brought him close to death another way. Though it could be that he wasn't brain washed at all, and he knew they would try that, so now he's still on the Lucian Alliance's side and just pretending to be with Earth

jelgate
June 5th, 2010, 06:55 AM
I was the one who mentioned the rite last ep. Removing the symbiote is just a means of bringing the Jaffa close to death. Obviously they couldn't do that with Telford, so they brought him close to death another way. Though it could be that he wasn't brain washed at all, and he knew they would try that, so now he's still on the Lucian Alliance's side and just pretending to be with Earth

But a rite is a ritual or set a rule in a custom in a culture. Without the symbiote its not the Rite of Mal'Sharan just a way to bring a person to death

TheHomegaMan
June 5th, 2010, 09:21 AM
But a rite is a ritual or set a rule in a custom in a culture. Without the symbiote its not the Rite of Mal'Sharan just a way to bring a person to death

Oh for crying out loud...

They adapted the Rite of Mal'Sharan for their purposes. Talking about the rite would've been useless exposition at best. Think about it. Only SG-1 fans would get what that rite entails and how we know about it. Those who didn't watch SG-1 just need to know that bringing somebody under the influence close to death will reverse the process. It took an entire episode of SG-1 to show that to us before, but in SGU I'm fine with simply showing the process and an oblique reference. You don't need to spoon feed the audience when they can reasonably be expected to make inferences.

thekillman
June 5th, 2010, 09:25 AM
It took an entire episode of SG-1 to show that to us before, but in SGU I'm fine with simply showing the process and an oblique reference.

except that a jaffa dies nowhere near as fast from lack of symbiote as a human from lack of oxygen.

also, 80% or so of that episode was about what teal'c experienced.

jelgate
June 5th, 2010, 09:35 AM
Oh for crying out loud...

They adapted the Rite of Mal'Sharan for their purposes. Talking about the rite would've been useless exposition at best. Think about it. Only SG-1 fans would get what that rite entails and how we know about it. Those who didn't watch SG-1 just need to know that bringing somebody under the influence close to death will reverse the process. It took an entire episode of SG-1 to show that to us before, but in SGU I'm fine with simply showing the process and an oblique reference. You don't need to spoon feed the audience when they can reasonably be expected to make inferences.
That still does not change the fact just bringing a person to the brink of death does not equate the the Rite of Mal'Sharan

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 5th, 2010, 10:15 AM
it seems to me that if he was brain washed she (LA leader chick/girl) would have known it thus when he told her its me...gave her the code told her y its that code she would have realized .."grait they unbrain washed you ""bang""...she would not have trusted him let alone with 6 of her men


what you think?

Yes, he was brainwashed, I believe. Telford knew the code word, but Rush didn't, that's why Telford could tell her, once they were on Destiny. She has no way to know that he's no longer brainwashed.

Blackhole
June 5th, 2010, 10:28 AM
Letting Telford die overcame the brainwashing because that is all the time the writers had provisioned for it to work. It is close enough to the rite to be reasonable within established stargate canon.

TheHomegaMan
June 5th, 2010, 05:14 PM
That still does not change the fact just bringing a person to the brink of death does not equate the the Rite of Mal'Sharan

Maybe I'm just not being clear here... did they need to explicitly mention the Rite of Mal'Sharan? The fact that you're simply quibbling over the name instead of the results makes my point perfectly.

They took the essential and most effective part of the Rite, referred to where they got the idea from, and carried it out to the same conclusion. To borrow a line from Caprica's Daniel Greystone "A difference that makes no difference is no difference." You may as well say that surgery carried out with a laser or anything instead of a scalpel is not surgery at all, since it involves slightly different processes that lead to the same result. Or chemo with different cocktails.

edit:

Letting Telford die overcame the brainwashing because that is all the time the writers had provisioned for it to work. It is close enough to the rite to be reasonable within established stargate canon.
This, times a million.


Was it the exact Rite of Mal'Sharan? Not a chance. Was it derived from it? Yep! Now explain your fixation on nomenclature to the exclusion of everything else. It just doesn't make any sense.

garhkal
June 6th, 2010, 03:09 AM
it seems to me that if he was brain washed she (LA leader chick/girl) would have known it thus when he told her its me...gave her the code told her y its that code she would have realized .."grait they unbrain washed you ""bang""...she would not have trusted him let alone with 6 of her men


what you think?

And how would she have known they broke him? Remember that code was what she gave him to prove it was him..


Or maybe Telford only pretended to "get his mind back" knowing full well that being close to die was supposed to get rid of his brainwash. Thus saving his reputation and cover with the human. While ditching the LA which must consider him disposable anyway at that time, since his cover was blown. Just a theory.

A double, double cross... Now that would be some serious Skulduggery!

jelgate
June 6th, 2010, 08:23 AM
Maybe I'm just not being clear here... did they need to explicitly mention the Rite of Mal'Sharan? The fact that you're simply quibbling over the name instead of the results makes my point perfectly.
.
They took the essential and most effective part of the Rite, referred to where they got the idea from, and carried it out to the same conclusion. To borrow a line from Caprica's Daniel Greystone "A difference that makes no difference is no difference." You may as well say that surgery carried out with a laser or anything instead of a scalpel is not surgery at all, since it involves slightly different processes that lead to the same result. Or chemo with different cocktails.

edit:

This, times a million.


Was it the exact Rite of Mal'Sharan? Not a chance. Was it derived from it? Yep! Now explain your fixation on nomenclature to the exclusion of everything else. It just doesn't make any sense.

I never said they should mention the rite. Just saying to the fans who are calling this the Rite are a little mistaken IMO

TheHomegaMan
June 6th, 2010, 08:37 AM
I never said they should mention the rite. Just saying to the fans who are calling this the Rite are a little mistaken IMO

Oh. Well... damn. Carry on then.