Is it torture? and what I think the episode might have tried to do

[AquaGamer53]

There has been a lot of debate about the pros/cons, effects, morality, etc of torture.

However, is Young torturing Telford? And how did he do it?

Kiva tortured Rush to get him to identify himself, right off the bat. Used something similar to that Gould torture stick. Showed us how effective the method is.

Young seemed to try to keep his hands off Telford right up 'till the end. Then he gave the order to vent the room. Is that a torture? Or a death sentence?

Either way, I think one of the things that the episode was trying to do was show there was a difference between how the SGC and the LA run. The LA used torture right away while Young, with the Jack and the SGC at his back, gave Telford the entire episode to fess up and tell them where Rush was taken to. Getting only half way, I think it was supposed to be a last resort thing.

Young had issues with Telford, but did he do anything he wouldn't have done if the mole wasn't Telford?

Also, while I don't think Rush and Young are friends, I think Young has moved on just enough not to do that again (without a damn good reason at least).


(This post may have belonged somewhere else, but I didn't think it quite fit anywhere when I first wrote it, hence the new posting)

[Astrofighter]

There are two threads discussing all of these points right now.

[AquaGamer53]

I looked through them and I thought they were discussing if touture was good/bad more than the points above.

[RedXian]

Also, while I don't think Rush and Young are friends, I think Young has moved on just enough not to do that again (without a damn good reason at least).

I got the impression that at onetime Telford and Young were buddies or at least friends. Perhaps it was when Telford was turned that their friendship went sour.

[Blackhole]

Evacuating the air out of a compartment is torture in any meaningful definition I have ever read and is the only torture that Telford has been subjected to. That being said, at this point we don’t know what is going to happen to Telford in Rush’s body. If Telford cracks and gives the information Young is looking for and the door is opened and air is returned, then all damage done would be psychological. It would be unlikely any lasting damage i.e., arising from the O2 deprivation would occur. Given that RC is the primary character of the show it isn’t likely he is going to die or suffer any lasting damage and since there has been an exchange of consciousness, then Rush is not likely to remember what was done to his body either.

Imo the seriousness of the crime will depend on what is yet to happen. I am not saying that Young’s evacuation of the room is not wrong, just that it will be far worse if Rush’s body suffers any lasting damage or dies. If his bluff is successful in scaring Telford into divulging the location of the LA base this intell along with the confirmation that Telford is the mole and was responsible for the deaths of the 30 plus people, will more than justify Young’s actions in my mind. Personally I don’t like torture at all either, but if what we have witnessed is all Young has to do to extract the extremely valuable and life saving information then his dip into torture is a very small price to pay imo. I can understand the posters who view torture as unacceptable in any form but I think their intense condemnation of Young’s interrogation tactics in this particular situation is a shortsighted overreaction.

Young didn’t up the stakes to evacuating the air until he had successfully goaded Telford to confess and confirmed his guilt in front of General O’Neil and himself. It was a most effective display of a psychological form of interrogation. There was no physical duress employed. It was Telford that attacked Young and brought about Greer’s unwelcome attack. Young made it clear that he did not want or need Greer or Scott to intercede.

Telford by his own admission is an avowed traitor and murderer. The rapid extraction of the information by Young is a very small price to pay for Telford’s treatment imo. Subjecting a known traitor and murder to his final tactic is a world of difference from doing it to someone who has been picked up off the street with only a suspicion of guilt. For those so opposed I would like to hear what specific alternative interrogation techniques they would have employed?

I would also like them to explain how the lives that would be saved from the intell that is likely to be gained doesn’t more than offset the moral harm done to Telford from his limited “torture” in this instance?

Frankly, I think Young’s interrogation of Telford so far has been exemplary and far from morally reprehensible as some have maintained. The information Telford was withholding is vital to both Earth and Destiny's interests and Young is likely going to obtain it expertly. If a cowardly traitor and mass murder like Telford has to undergo some very rough treatment to obtain it, then so be it. To suggest that the moral fabric of our society will unravel from this one carefully administered and controlled, isolated and authorized instance is a shortsighted overreaction. Telford's necessary abuse for the greater good in this exceptional instance is justified and warranted imo.

Besides there is nothing to be gained from killing both Telford and Rush; even if he wanted revenge (which I don’t believe) there are far too many witnesses to get away with it. If Telford doesn’t crack and passes out then Young will open the door to the compartment and repressurize it. Young will have bluffed and Telford will have had the courage to wait him out. I don’t think it will go down this way. Telford has already demonstrated that he is a coward and is fully aware of just how much bad blood there is between Young and the both of them. Young is gambling that Telford will be too afraid to risk that he may just kill them both and will crack.

[Blackhole]

I got the impression that at onetime Telford and Young were buddies or at least friends. Perhaps it was when Telford was turned that their friendship went sour.

I think you are right and Young used that fact to expertly goad a confession out of Telford.

[Lt. Jeffer]

this is one thing i love about this show its not just black and white there are many thing who are grey like is it okay to frame someone for murder or start an mutinity and now torture normally i would instantly say all of this is wrong but with the circumstances i have to admit that i dont know

[pipi]

Obviously Telford is a hardcore military man. It would take days to crack him using conventional torture techniques. They needed so save Rush in a matter of hours so something drastic had to be done. Do or die I guess.