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apostrophe
May 21st, 2010, 03:22 AM
If you have the ability to edit DVD's, here is what I would recommend for Air 1 :

Start with the extended version which keeps the hallway scene with Scott's remarks about Dinasaurs to Eli etc.

First Edit

Trim the sex scene down to strong innuendo. I explain my reasons for doing this in another thread:
http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/69501-What-did-you-guys-think-of-quot-The-Scene-quot/page4
Plus there's a whole lot of other posts there discussing the pro's and con's .
Anyway, edit as follows:

Go to the scene where the Hammond pops out of hyperspace and swings by and around into orbit around the planet. There is an existing cut point there.

Go through the sex scene until there is a spot where the camera is out of focus which is right before Scott is tucking in his clothes and starting to go. We miss the the grunting, pillow talk and radio chatter but we have a nice spot here to make a virtually seamless cut back in. We still know what we need to know, but not more than many of us would care to know. Basically ironing out a little kink here.

Second Edit

Chloe runs off all upset about her father. There is a scene following where Col. Young asks Carmine to help. She says something like "I can do that" , the camera goes wide. There is a cut point here. Watch for it.

Now skip the long drawn out scene with Chloe crying and Scott going essentially, yup, yup, yup. There is nothing useful you can say to somebody grieving like that. Niether does Scott, really. Obviously Scott is interested in Chloe. That's the main reason he's following her around here. No surprise. But it seems too soon. And all that crying and sobbing gets to be tedious, especially since it's hard to feel too sorry for her since our man Scott is right there on the job to lend any support as might be needed.

We already know that the Senator maybe wasn't such a total jerk after all, based on his heroic action. But we're done with him and won't be seeing him again. Obviously he wasn't a bad father else she wouldn't be so sad. So all the pretty predictable what-kind-of-nice-things-can-you-say about the man coming out between sobs is redundant from a plot standpoint. It really drags.

So. Wait until the darkness scene where Chloe's tearstreaked face slowly is revealed out of shadow. Cut back in at the darkness right before. Should be virtually seamless. Then we see her face come out followed by a short scene of her all small and alone in the room facing out the window, forlornly staring off into space as it streams by.

It seems natural that somebody would want to be alone after an emotional outburst like she just had. Also I feel more respect and sympathy for Chloe now that the newly remade scene basically shows our character quietly but bravely bearing her sadness all by herself. Now we start thinking, Poor little thing. She's all alone now. Wouldn't it be nice if she could find somebody...

Also with the new timing it makes a kind-of nice ironic moment - sad Chloe counterpoint immediately following Young's - "try to keep everyone upbeat".

Now if I had a few extra thousand laying around for a good compositor I would try to paint a white lab coat on Dr. Simms and it would be perfect, but.. no, it's still good.
ref: http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/75018-Telford-Simms-Look-Alike


It's a good episode now. I really like it.

That's it. Cut. Print.

I am so moving on to Air 2 now. Really.:cool:

escyos
May 21st, 2010, 03:45 AM
no one cares

apostrophe
May 21st, 2010, 04:47 AM
no one cares

we'll see

escyos
May 21st, 2010, 05:17 AM
just another person complaining about somthing about SGU

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 21st, 2010, 05:53 AM
just another person complaining about somthing about SGU


OP: It's a good episode now. I really like it.
fortunately the OP only gets to do the trims for themselves :)

Spimman
May 21st, 2010, 07:30 AM
What is the point of this thread? :confused:

Loheat
May 21st, 2010, 07:35 AM
What is the point of this thread? :confused:

To say how he would make Air better, in his opinion. And I agree, except for the sex scene part I would keep that in there, but some of that stuff I can do without. Thats one of the first things I plan on doing when I get SGU on dvd is to cut out the parts I thought were boring and unnecessary and see if I can make it better

s09119
May 21st, 2010, 02:19 PM
no one cares

I second this. I watch the show for the show as it was envisioned by the writers. And if you're gonna edit out half the episode to make it more like something else, why not just go watch the something else?

apostrophe
May 21st, 2010, 03:33 PM
just another person complaining about somthing about SGU

we complain because we care :)

apostrophe
May 21st, 2010, 03:40 PM
To say how he would make Air better, in his opinion. And I agree, except for the sex scene part I would keep that in there, but some of that stuff I can do without. Thats one of the first things I plan on doing when I get SGU on dvd is to cut out the parts I thought were boring and unnecessary and see if I can make it better

yes, that's it.

It's a fun thing to do especially after one has watched a couple times. The armchair thing is like being an armchair general as they say, or armchair director. It's also interesting to hear how people figure they might improve something. Or what they think of one's own ideas.

It sure was a lot easier to try to do this kind of thing with vhs tapes though..

apostrophe
May 21st, 2010, 03:45 PM
What is the point of this thread? :confused:



hobby interest.

also it provides an excuse to keep rewatching the episodes again to see how the "improvements worked out (or not).

apostrophe
May 21st, 2010, 03:57 PM
I second this. I watch the show for the show as it was envisioned by the writers. And if you're gonna edit out half the episode to make it more like something else, why not just go watch the something else?

the point isn't to change it into something else, more to try to "help" improve the flavor by trimming some of the fat or repairing something that may have needed a little more time or debate in the editing room. Sometimes things get thrown in due to studio pressure or they need to pad scenes to make it fit a time slot. The home viewer/affectionada doesn't necessarily have to suffer under those kinds of restraints.

there usually isn't anything else (as good) i'd rather watch

Krazeh
May 21st, 2010, 04:18 PM
the point isn't to change it into something else, more to try to "help" improve the flavor by trimming some of the fat or repairing something that may have needed a little more time or debate in the editing room. Sometimes things get thrown in due to studio pressure or they need to pad scenes to make it fit a time slot. The home viewer/affectionada doesn't necessarily have to suffer under those kinds of restraints.

there usually isn't anything else (as good) i'd rather watch

Removing the bits you don't like isnt "helping improve the flavour", it's simply cutting out the things you don't think should be there. What's there is there because the writers wanted to tell a certain story, you removing it changes that story. Not to mention your cuts seem to be based around removing areas where they delve into character interactions and want to tell us about how these characters tick, not really the best things to be cutting out in a character focused drama series.

escyos
May 21st, 2010, 07:34 PM
apostrophe you know you can answer multiple posts in one post, not a separate one for eachresponse

apostrophe
May 22nd, 2010, 03:09 AM
Removing the bits you don't like isnt "helping improve the flavour", it's simply cutting out the things you don't think should be there. What's there is there because the writers wanted to tell a certain story, you removing it changes that story. Not to mention your cuts seem to be based around removing areas where they delve into character interactions and want to tell us about how these characters tick, not really the best things to be cutting out in a character focused drama series.

Well, consider this: If they thought there was only one perfect way to tell the story, why would they release two different cuts on the DVD for the viewer to choose from ?

Krazeh
May 22nd, 2010, 07:12 AM
Well, consider this: If they thought there was only one perfect way to tell the story, why would they release two different cuts on the DVD for the viewer to choose from ?

Because one cut is the version they showed on TV, in which they had to make sacrifices in order to stick to standard episode time lengths, i.e. a little over 40 mins per episode. And the other cut is what they would have aired if there was no constraints on how long each episode could last.

However, that makes no difference to my point that the writers are the ones who know what story it is they want to tell and are the only people in a position to be able to cut scenes without it affecting that story. All you are doing are removing parts that you don't like with no regard to how it alters the story or what it is you might end up missing further down the line.

Loheat
May 23rd, 2010, 12:56 PM
Because one cut is the version they showed on TV, in which they had to make sacrifices in order to stick to standard episode time lengths, i.e. a little over 40 mins per episode. And the other cut is what they would have aired if there was no constraints on how long each episode could last.

However, that makes no difference to my point that the writers are the ones who know what story it is they want to tell and are the only people in a position to be able to cut scenes without it affecting that story. All you are doing are removing parts that you don't like with no regard to how it alters the story or what it is you might end up missing further down the line.
I think you missed the part where that was the point

Krazeh
May 23rd, 2010, 04:23 PM
I think you missed the part where that was the point

No, I get that was the point. I just think it's a ridiculous idea to edit a tv show with no idea of how important anything you're removing might be, and then to bring those ideas to a public forum and try to pass it off as a good thing that would improve the episode.

apostrophe
May 24th, 2010, 03:24 PM
Because one cut is the version they showed on TV, in which they had to make sacrifices in order to stick to standard episode time lengths, i.e. a little over 40 mins per episode. And the other cut is what they would have aired if there was no constraints on how long each episode could last.

However, that makes no difference to my point that the writers are the ones who know what story it is they want to tell and are the only people in a position to be able to cut scenes without it affecting that story. All you are doing are removing parts that you don't like with no regard to how it alters the story or what it is you might end up missing further down the line.

Don't kid yourself. Sacrifices are made every step of the way. They've got all kinds of constraints coming from every direction imaginable. The single biggest ultimate influence on what the writers are told to write and cut is advertising dollars. We're lucky if anything of a given writer's original artistic vision even makes it onto the screen. Assuming the writer is any good at his assigned task to begin with.

And you can't credibly tell me that you've never used the fast forward button on your remote control. BTW if a person is skipping commercials, they're the ones hurting the show. Actually if you want to help the show it's your duty to watch every commercial and then go out and buy each product that they are peddling. That's primarily where they get the money to make the show.

Me, I prefer to bypass that process and moral dilemma by paying them for what I like directly. I've done that by going to the store and buying the DVD box sets as they came out. For example, I have a complete collection of SG1 DVD box sets most of which I paid full retail for around $40 each. I like to think that gives me a little more individual impact than being a passive TV viewer who, let's face it, is basically just a number from the average TV show's revenue stream perspective. In fact I would go so far to say that he isn't even a number. He's an abstract statistical probability.

With SG1 there are very few episodes I tend to skip over and never had any desire to change anything until around season ten. Some of those episodes were a little half-cooked. So far, for me, SGU is a like a pork chop on a plate with too many potatoes around it. You need a few potatoes but I'm mostly interested in the pork chop.

Dedicated SG fans have been lucky over the years because we have been sitting smack dab in the middle of the fairly sizable dedicated sci-fi fan cult following demographic that SG was targeted to.

Somebody noticed that soap operas sold a lot of soap via commercials to idle-afternoon viewing housewives over the years, which made a ton ton of money for advertising sponsors, that like sci-fi shows they also had cult followings, and got the idea to try to combine the two demographics by somehow combining the two genres, this despite inherent structural incompatibilities. It's a tricky proposition for writers and I don't think that they have completely gotten the hang of things with SGU yet.

I know what I like and much of that probably matches other sci-fi buffs. But we're not the sole targeted demographic anymore. We're feeling some bumps in the road, hopefully temporary on the path to perfection. Until they get the mix adjusted right, I'm just trying to save some people of like mind some time in figuring out where to hit the ff button to cope, to not overly subject themselves to things that they probably don't particularly like either.

People read reviews by like-minded reviewers to find tips on which shows to skip, which episodes to skip. It's the same thing here only it's what part of an episode they might want to skip. I'm not even suggesting that they do anything. If you always want to eat everything on your plate, just the way it's served. Fine by me.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 24th, 2010, 04:22 PM
...And you can't credibly tell me that you've never used the fast forward button on your remote control.
...I know what I like and much of that probably matches other sci-fi buffs.
...Until they get the mix adjusted right, I'm just trying to save some people of like mind some time in figuring out where to hit the ff button to cope, to not overly subject themselves to things that they probably don't particularly like either.


1) yes, I can state that I don't ff through episodes. Mostly because then I would miss stuff. And, you know, come here and complain that I never understand what's going on or that I don't get it :D

2) you can definitely say what you like; it's when you start including other people in that that you're way off base. I'm sure there's got to be at least one other person that agrees with you but from the looks of the kinds of responses you're getting, it doesn't seem to be a majority.

3) well now, that's just arrogant, son :)

apostrophe
May 24th, 2010, 09:42 PM
I didn't say just episodes

And it wasn't me that said you don't get it or whatever.

If someone finds the whole idea of someone editting their own backup copy of an episode abhorrent, don't look.

In my web browsing travels I notice that there is a Christian site offering versions of all popular DVD's wiith all the swear words, sex and so forth, edited out. If someone is against editing in general maybe try posting over there. I'm sure they would be delighted to hear about it.

Might I suggest or a good thread starter:

"Is Editing Sanctioned by God?"

:)

apostrophe
May 25th, 2010, 04:11 AM
What is the point of this thread? :confused:

Since the question was asked in your post and I probably should have posted something more explanatory let me try to answer it again a little better.

I started this thread for people to discuss editing. It's an important part of the production process. Usually most of it is done post-production, but unlike writing, directing, acting, photography, lighting et al, it seemed a ripe topic for discussion because it is so overlooked.

Unlike famous actors and directors etc. you might see a small entry in the credits but the quality of the editing can make or break a movie, show, or episode just like all the other aspects.

This is also from the standpoint of buying the DVD's, not broadcast viewing which I suppose, is necessarily one-shot. DVD's are ideal for multiple viewing. Well, I guess a lot of people are downloading to their hard drives now too. Similar thing I imagine though I've never tried it.

After one has seen an episode many times, sometimes, not always, one tends to notice that some parts seem to have more enduring value while others seem to detract from the episode. It seemed like it might be interesting to hear what people thought those parts were, in this case, Air 1 and where they would make the cuts if they could. What do they tend to fast-forward through.

If someone has two babies as your avatar suggests, maybe they are immune to the sound of crying by now. I don't know. :)

For me, onscreen crying is something to be endured, only if necessary, if it's somehow vital. I think that the viewer is supposed to like Scott and feel empathy for Chloe. Instead it makes Scott look like something between a dog and an oaf and Chloe already has Scott hanging on her, so why should the viewer feel undue concern for her? Without the blubbering scene, when a more dignified Chloe goes to Scott later in the series, she has a reason to be interested now that he is a hero, and there is more relief, mostly for Chloe, that they are getting together. She'll have someone to look after her. With the scene in it's more of a foregone conclusion so no surprise later on. And if it had been deleted originally, as it looks like it should have, maybe they wouldn't be nicknaming Scott "Sir Bouncealot" now in some of the other fan forums.

Usually there are bonus features on a DVD which include deleted scenes which are of course, edits and potential topics for discussion, e.g. should they have been left in or not and why.

Unlike acting and directing which can't be changed other than possibly influenced in future productions based on fan opinion e.g "Bring Beckett Back" campaign in SGA, with editing, some home viewers can make their own little adjustments, theoretically. Assuming that they are computer geeks. This may surprise some people but a lot of geeks actually like science fiction for some strange reason.

I used to have a couple vcrs that made editing easy. You could program cue points and just let them run. VCR's made before a certain date are immune to macrovision. Times have changed of course. Most of them still in existence have broken down. Turns out the tapes deteriorate after a few years as well.

Actually unless you're a computer geek, it may not be very feasible with a DVD. It's pretty difficult to do successfully. Obviously I was pretty happy when I got one to work.

Like I say though. Mostly could still do editing / deleted scenes critiques and speculation. Those that can, can try out the suggested changes if they want.

Maybe this should be in a more general forum e.g. Season One Armchair Edits. Catchy title, eh?

Maybe it could even turn into a TV show someday:

And now it's time for... Armchair Edits! And here is your host, Alistair Quince Parnell....A big round of applause ladies and gentlemen...

.