PDA

View Full Version : TJ & Young, Scott & James Relationship Against Military Rules



General Jumper One
May 20th, 2010, 05:45 PM
As we have seen throughout all ten years of SG-1 and I think SGA, no two military personnel can be or have any kind of relationship like the ones TJ & Young, Scott & James have. What are your thoughts about this.:mad:

carmencatalina
May 20th, 2010, 06:45 PM
Actually, I think the rules would definitely forbid TJ and Young (he is her commanding officer), but I'm not sure about Scott and James (they are both the same rank, and I'm not sure he was in her direct command back on Icarus, where they had their "relationship").

Someone with more knowledge should chime in.

SG7
May 20th, 2010, 07:30 PM
Actually, I think the rules would definitely forbid TJ and Young (he is her commanding officer), but I'm not sure about Scott and James (they are both the same rank, and I'm not sure he was in her direct command back on Icarus, where they had their "relationship").

Someone with more knowledge should chime in.

I get the impression that the "relationship" that TJ and Young had was more of friendship that "crossed the line" once. And that both regretted their actions immediately afterwards for both reasons, Military and Young having a wife. But that would go with out saying in any invironment. It would be inappropriate for a boss to be having a relationship with someone under them. Though I'm sure it happens all the time.

In TJ and Young's case. I think both of them knew immediately afterwards. And thus why TJ was probably transferring out. She was probably transferring out as a way to avoid further temptation. And also to "sweep it under the rug" so to speak. If it was only something that happened once, and she went across country to some other base where she wouldn't see him ever again, who would even know? Especially if nothing had resulted in their little fling. Unfortunately TJ did wind up pregnant. And we really don't even know the circumstances around that either, weather they were using protection and it failed. Weren't and just took their chances, or were possibly intoxicated and didn't realize till next morning what had happened. So far the writers have left the details surrounding their "relationship/affair" pretty vague.

majorsal
May 20th, 2010, 07:34 PM
As we have seen throughout all ten years of SG-1 and I think SGA, no two military personnel can be or have any kind of relationship like the ones TJ & Young, Scott & James have. What are your thoughts about this.:mad:

that it 'is' against military regulations, but sgu isn't a military training manual, it's a dramatic tv show.

i just wish they'd done some of this meaty stuff for sam and jack in sg1...

Cory Holmes
May 21st, 2010, 01:51 AM
i just wish they'd done some of this meaty stuff for sam and jack in sg1...
See, I'm convinced that TJ and Young are a direct subversion and deconstruction of Jack'n'Sam from SG-1. Think about it for a second: older colonel, younger and blond junior officer under his command, affair, sparks, etc. And now they're showing all the ways that such a relationship would never work out.

SG7
May 21st, 2010, 03:27 AM
See, I'm convinced that TJ and Young are a direct subversion and deconstruction of Jack'n'Sam from SG-1. Think about it for a second: older colonel, younger and blond junior officer under his command, affair, sparks, etc. And now they're showing all the ways that such a relationship would never work out.

I think because the PTB knew that it was a show where they were going to have people stranded on a ship in the middle of nowhere in some far off galaxy, they decided to "go there" and have a situation where TJ and Young had a "thing"(however brief or long it may have been). And AFAIK, the writers and PTB had not planned on having TJ pregnant, but when AH informed them of her RL pregnancy, then they did incorporate it into the storyline, knowing that it wouldn't seem too out of place given the history that they had developed behind TJ and Young. The only diffrence being is that Alaina had indicated that she was farther along in her RL pregnancy than it was written that TJ was.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 21st, 2010, 04:14 AM
See, I'm convinced that TJ and Young are a direct subversion and deconstruction of Jack'n'Sam from SG-1. Think about it for a second: older colonel, younger and blond junior officer under his command, affair, sparks, etc. And now they're showing all the ways that such a relationship would never work out.

true :)

Against the rules? Definitely. But it does happen and I think that the show has started off from that point, where it's already happened, kind of puts it behind them. We're not left wondering but we can go on from there and try to be friends again/still. At this point, bringing Young up on charges for any of these things is useless as far as being able to inflict punishment and further, removing him from command puts the rest of the people stranded at risk without his leadership. People need to have faith in Young.

Cory Holmes
May 21st, 2010, 05:46 AM
I think because the PTB knew that it was a show where they were going to have people stranded on a ship in the middle of nowhere in some far off galaxy, they decided to "go there" and have a situation where TJ and Young had a "thing"(however brief or long it may have been). And AFAIK, the writers and PTB had not planned on having TJ pregnant, but when AH informed them of her RL pregnancy, then they did incorporate it into the storyline, knowing that it wouldn't seem too out of place given the history that they had developed behind TJ and Young. The only diffrence being is that Alaina had indicated that she was farther along in her RL pregnancy than it was written that TJ was.
I'm not referring to the pregnancy thing than I am the squicky-ness of trying to have a professional relationship with someone that you've had a personal one with, of trying to maintain any sort of military protocol and chain of command, and how that would affect any team dynamic.

Perhaps because I'm an anti-Jack'n'Sam guy, but I like how the PTBs are dealing with this relationship. Very awkward, to say the least :D

Petra
May 23rd, 2010, 01:21 AM
See, I'm convinced that TJ and Young are a direct subversion and deconstruction of Jack'n'Sam from SG-1. Think about it for a second: older colonel, younger and blond junior officer under his command, affair, sparks, etc. And now they're showing all the ways that such a relationship would never work out.

Please tell me you are not serious. Please. I know that antis have huge problems with justifying their hatred for S/J pairing and their efforts are usually pretty entertaining, but this post takes the cake. Your theory is so ridiculous that it’s not even funny anymore. Tell you what, I’ll just go ahead and assume you are joking because I refuse to believe that according to you 3 most important factors deciding whether a relationship will work out or not are: 1. Professional standing, 2. Age difference and 3. Hair colour. Yeah, let’s forget all those pesky little details like completely different personalities, backgrounds, life experiences and expectations. Of course there’s no way you are megalomaniac enough to think that just because you dislike certain pairing, TPTB – who by the way created this pairing in the first place and whenever asked confirm that Sam and Jack are indeed together post-Threads – hate it too to such a degree that they created a new show with completely different characters just to show that what they had done earlier would be impossible. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

What’s similar in TJ/Everett and Sam/Jack relationships? Let’s see, shall we? Sam met Jack when she was around 30 years old and he was in his 40ies. At this age you’ve got quite a lot of life experience already. They never had an affair during the time they were in direct chain of command. When they finally got together, it was after they’d both been transferred to different posts. They did it as mature, very experienced people after having known each other for 8 years. She was after 2 broken off engagements, he was divorced for 7 years. They’ve seen the best and the worst of each other. I guess at the respective ages of 37/8 and 47/8 they knew what the heck they were doing.

We don’t know a whole lot about TJ and Young, unfortunately. Tamara is what, in her mid-twenties? Young is in his late-thirties? I’m guessing here. We don’t know anything about TJ’s previous romantic relationships. We do know that Young is married and appears to be very much in love with his wife. We don’t know how or why they started an affair, who ended it and why. Yeah, I can see how similar it is to S/J. Not. :rolleyes:

Sam and TJ have totally different personalities. They have totally different baggage of experiences. Sam as a military brat must have had a different perspective on the military life than coming from a civilian family TJ. She’d fought in one war already before she met Jack, was older than TJ and more experienced. They met their colonels at different stages of their life. Yeah, I can see how similar they are. Not. Oh, wait! They are both blondes! Well, that explains everything. :rolleyes:

Jack and Everett have different personalities. They have totally different baggage of experiences. O’Neill and Young are both colonels around 40 years old when we meet them, estranged from their wives. Jack’s just getting a divorce because he and Sara couldn’t make their marriage work after their son’s death. Jack will be thinking of her for the next year (whole season 1) but after that he’ll move on. Young’s marriage has problems because of his infidelity, but he loves his wife and tries his best to get her back. Yeah, I can see how similar they are. Not. Oh wait! They are both older than their subordinates! Well, that explains it. :rolleyes:

But who cares, right? Following your logic I should log out now, call my blond friend who for the past 3 years has been in a happy relationship with a guy who used to be her supervisor at work and tell her to break it off because their relationship won’t work out. Never mind that it’s been working out for years. What matters is that she’s blonde, he’s a good few years older and used to be her boss. Yep, I’m sure she’ll do it based on such irrefutable arguments. :rolleyes:

Bottom line: you can’t predict the fate of relationship x based on the failure of relationship y when the two have nothing but a very passing resemblance in common. But then, you of course know that, what with not being serious and all. ;)

;)

As to the topic of this thread, I like that TPTB went down this path. Military personnel in SGU is shown to have flaws and it would be strange to leave the romantic/sexual aspects out. Of course I don’t condone TJ and Young’s affair, but these things happen in RL all the time. As for Scott and James, I don’t think it’s ever been stated that they were in direct chain of command. Yeah, he outranks her a little (she’s a 2nd Lt, he’s a 1st Lt) and he’s Young’s right hand man, but AFAIK there’s no proof he is or was at any point her CO. And they behave like equals anyway. I like that TPTB tackled the issue using 2 different examples.

SG7
May 23rd, 2010, 06:39 PM
The reality is, people fall into affairs all the time. Starts off as innocent chats that can progress further. Here we had TJ and Young who were how many millions of ligh years from home. We don't have the details of their affair, but from what I can see, it appears to have been something along the lines of emotional cheating that turned into a physical one night stand that both of them regretted. Thus why she was choosing to transfer out. And also why it was so hard for her to tell Young that she was pregnant with his child.

The show has done good to show that even military personnel are human and aren't immune to making mistakes. And this just happened to be one of those mistakes that was made.

Cory Holmes
May 25th, 2010, 05:22 PM
Please tell me you are not serious. Please.

I am not serious. My name is Cory. And if you roll your eyes any more, they might just run away from you :)

In response to your post, I don't mean that TJ/Young and Sam'n'Sir are direct carbon-copies of each other; instead I mean that in SGU, the producers are taking the chance to show the other side of the coin, to show an inter-team/inter-military affair that doesn't work out. And I fail to see why this is such a strech, considering how hard they've worked to make SGU subvert almost all the usual tropes that SG-1 so gleefully employed.

Petra
May 31st, 2010, 12:04 PM
I am not serious. My name is Cory. And if you roll your eyes any more, they might just run away from you :)

Thank you for your concern but it is a little unwarranted. I assure you my eyes are still firmly attached to my head, even if reading your post was a trying experience for them. ;)


In response to your post, I don't mean that TJ/Young and Sam'n'Sir are direct carbon-copies of each other; instead I mean that in SGU, the producers are taking the chance to show the other side of the coin, to show an inter-team/inter-military affair that doesn't work out. And I fail to see why this is such a strech, considering how hard they've worked to make SGU subvert almost all the usual tropes that SG-1 so gleefully employed.

You misunderstood me. Showing "an inter-military affair that doesn't work out" isn't a strech at all. In fact I find it quite believable and realistic and Young/TJ interactions are one of the most enjoyable aspects of the series for me (no, I don't ship them and doubt I'll ever will). The only thing I object to is your bizarre notion that their relationship is somehow corresponding to S/J 'ship.


The reality is, people fall into affairs all the time. Starts off as innocent chats that can progress further. Here we had TJ and Young who were how many millions of ligh years from home. We don't have the details of their affair, but from what I can see, it appears to have been something along the lines of emotional cheating that turned into a physical one night stand that both of them regretted. Thus why she was choosing to transfer out. And also why it was so hard for her to tell Young that she was pregnant with his child.

I'm not so sure it was just a one-night stand. In Subversion Telford tells Young something like "You were sleeping with someone under your command". "Were sleeping" indicates that it lasted for some time, not that it happened just once.

I'm also very curious what will happen between Matt and Vanessa.

2BAM
June 8th, 2010, 01:50 AM
As we have seen throughout all ten years of SG-1 and I think SGA, no two military personnel can be or have any kind of relationship like the ones TJ & Young, Scott & James have. What are your thoughts about this.:mad:

I think "who cares!!!" I think it's great to break the rules......it makes a great story.....period.

Egle01
June 8th, 2010, 02:56 AM
It sure had added layers and depth to the characters. I'm esp keen on TJ/Young/baby storyline. :)

But I wonder if the military advisers were really okay with having 4 officers breaking the rules. :D

kwlafayette
June 8th, 2010, 03:17 AM
I think it was a lot more than a one night stand. His wife found out about it for one thing. TJ probably decided to leave when it became clear he was not going to leave his wife.

PS. They just dismissed the Canadian commander in Afghanistan for this very thing. The military takes this stuff very seriously. Apparently, even if you are married, and your wife is deployed with you, conjugal relations are not allowed in a war zone while on deployment.

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 8th, 2010, 06:55 AM
I think "who cares!!!" I think it's great to break the rules......it makes a great story.....period.

I think I'm in the 'who cares' camp. Sure, I think infidelity is not cool, but it's unrealistic to present it as never happening. These rules are made for a reason - BECAUSE it happens. Just as people have affairs with people they work with. You can't work in that sort of close environment and not have it happen, and it adds further layers of ties between characters.

General Jumper One
June 8th, 2010, 06:59 AM
I think it makes a good story line and good character development and makes SGU even more different than SG-1 or SGA...which is a good thing

Cory Holmes
June 8th, 2010, 01:24 PM
conjugal relations are not allowed in a war zone while on deployment.[/B]

Thing is, it wasn't his wife he had the conjugal relations with...

hedwig
June 8th, 2010, 01:45 PM
But I wonder if the military advisers were really okay with having 4 officers breaking the rules. :D

Do they even have military advisers for SGU??? :) Given the stories thus far, I'd say NO. :)

xxxevilgrinxxx
June 8th, 2010, 01:45 PM
I think it was a lot more than a one night stand. His wife found out about it for one thing. TJ probably decided to leave when it became clear he was not going to leave his wife.

PS. They just dismissed the Canadian commander in Afghanistan for this very thing. The military takes this stuff very seriously. Apparently, even if you are married, and your wife is deployed with you, conjugal relations are not allowed in a war zone while on deployment.

I have a very hard time believing that's the sole reaon they pulled him. Maybe it's just the least damaging reason. If they took it very seriously, would it happen at all?


(as a side note, are you referring to the Col. Russell Williams case, where the guy is also charged with multiple counts of murder and rape? Cus I'd be thinking that would be the bigger problem and it's got nothing to do with infidelity at all...just sayin')

pending
June 8th, 2010, 03:03 PM
would T J be under the direct command of the doctor that was killed in the first episode, the one with the neck wound.

Egle01
June 9th, 2010, 01:36 AM
Do they even have military advisers for SGU??? :) Given the stories thus far, I'd say NO. :)I knew that there were.

Avenger
June 10th, 2010, 01:37 AM
would T J be under the direct command of the doctor that was killed in the first episode, the one with the neck wound.

Yes, but Young was still the top of the chain of command at Icarus. The medical officer would be reporting directly to Young. TJ was still under his direct chain of command. This kind of relationship is definitely against regs, but it happens. No one is infallible.

brotymo
June 14th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I think it was a lot more than a one night stand. His wife found out about it for one thing. TJ probably decided to leave when it became clear he was not going to leave his wife.

PS. They just dismissed the Canadian commander in Afghanistan for this very thing. The military takes this stuff very seriously. Apparently, even if you are married, and your wife is deployed with you, conjugal relations are not allowed in a war zone while on deployment.

My ex-husband was a staff sergeant deploying to Afghanistan. While training up at Camp Shelby, he met a Private 20 yrs his junior (20 years old) and carried on an affair. I found out, his commander found out, and while his commander was very displeased, but there wasn't much they were willing to do other than counseling him. He left me for her after 13 years of marriage and 3 kids and married her. He was never reprimanded. So yes, it isn't supposed to go on, but it does, and often nothing is done about it. The military has more pressing matters.

SG7
June 15th, 2010, 03:42 PM
Yes, but Young was still the top of the chain of command at Icarus. The medical officer would be reporting directly to Young. TJ was still under his direct chain of command. This kind of relationship is definitely against regs, but it happens. No one is infallible.

Exactly. The military would probably love to court martial or do something about each one that carry's on this kind of relationship but the reality is, the military always has way more pressing issues to deal with.


My ex-husband was a staff sergeant deploying to Afghanistan. While training up at Camp Shelby, he met a Private 20 yrs his junior (20 years old) and carried on an affair. I found out, his commander found out, and while his commander was very displeased, but there wasn't much they were willing to do other than counseling him. He left me for her after 13 years of marriage and 3 kids and married her. He was never reprimanded. So yes, it isn't supposed to go on, but it does, and often nothing is done about it. The military has more pressing matters.

Ouch!

poundpuppy29
June 16th, 2010, 09:58 PM
My ex-husband was a staff sergeant deploying to Afghanistan. While training up at Camp Shelby, he met a Private 20 yrs his junior (20 years old) and carried on an affair. I found out, his commander found out, and while his commander was very displeased, but there wasn't much they were willing to do other than counseling him. He left me for her after 13 years of marriage and 3 kids and married her. He was never reprimanded. So yes, it isn't supposed to go on, but it does, and often nothing is done about it. The military has more pressing matters.
Well said and thank you for sharing

Republibot 3.0
November 22nd, 2010, 07:19 AM
See, I'm convinced that TJ and Young are a direct subversion and deconstruction of Jack'n'Sam from SG-1. Think about it for a second: older colonel, younger and blond junior officer under his command, affair, sparks, etc. And now they're showing all the ways that such a relationship would never work out.

Oooh! Good observation!

Republibot 3.0
November 22nd, 2010, 07:33 AM
According to the rules of every branch of the service, romantic and/or sexual relationships between junior and senior officers in the same command are strictly forbidden. It tends to work against the strict caste system the military works by, *and* there's simply too much opportunity for abusing rank for sexual favors ("I'll get you a better job if you let me hit that").

Doing so is a court martial offence, generally with both people getting thrown out of the service. There's also the possibility of jail time if there's any evidence of coercion.

In fact, if an officer has an affair - even with someone not in the service - that can get 'em thrown out. Officers are held to a higher code of conduct than the enlisted are. Honor still counts somewhat in the military. Adultery is inherently dishonorable, and so it *can* be a major offence, though in actual fact they tend to mostly overlook it unless it's particularly heinous or whatever. Scott and James' relationship probably wouldn't be something that would go before the courts, but it would CERTAINLY be reprimanded if it got out.

Though it's obviously not a sexual or romantic relationship, it's worth noting that Greer and Scott's friendship (Which is one of the things I like best about the show) is a bit overly familiar.

That said, as someone pointed out, this is a TV show and a mostly-Canadian one at that; not a textbook on military conduct. <G>
Here, check this out http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/fraternization.-ukn.htm

and http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm1342.htm

That goes into a bit of detail about the rules.

MattSilver 3k
November 22nd, 2010, 08:58 AM
I remember this thread. Still funny.