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apostrophe
May 19th, 2010, 08:23 PM
What I have a problem with is a little external bombardment causing the Icarus planet to explode. The biggest hit seems to be the rail gun emplacement. Why would that make the planet explode? (It wouldn't.)

What would have made more sense would have been to have regulator/cooling stations around the base that they hadn't finished battle hardening. Preferably some kind of exotic ancient tech devices. Even if they couldn't spring for CGA rendering, all they had to do was mention it in the dialog.

The regulator nodes would be focused down into the planetoid's naqada core around the base using some kind of energy beams to sustain a controlled essentially nuclear-level reaction to create and channel the tremendous energy needed to fire up the 9th Chevron. I agree with the other poster that once established it could be like the black hole planet and almost impossible to disconnect unless the power could somehow be interrupted, say, with a big explosion.

I guess they didn't perish in the energy backwash on Destiny because, being so far away it absorbed all the power to make the connection. OTOH, nearby gates in our own galaxy could credibly be dangerous since all that energy would have to go somewhere. So, Rush's rationale is credible.

We know from existing SG lore that naqada reactors tend to operate in a state of barely contained overload anyway so the idea of a downed craft or stray bomb exploding over an unprotected regulator node would do the trick. Once you lose regulation, then everything goes haywire and ultimately, boom.

"My god! They hit the #3 regulator complex. It's been destroyed."
"I'm sure that wasn't their intention"
"The chain reaction in the core is going out of control. It's going critical. It's gonna blow!"

A simple script tweak would have fixed it. I still like having SGU as opposed to no SGU but the apparent sloppiness with important background tech/pseudo-tech details in favor of overly detailed character emotive fluff is a bit appalling. imho.

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escyos
May 19th, 2010, 08:27 PM
it was the sudden drain of energy from the core that caused it to become unstable and explode

Pharaoh Atem
May 19th, 2010, 09:14 PM
the http://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Naquadria core became unstable

apostrophe
May 19th, 2010, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I guess we could just go with simply dialing the 9th chevron causing the spike after it locked in. They didn't know it would do that. They only calculated up to that point, not beyond.

OK. Works. Still, seems like a planet exploding would be kind-of a big deal. Should have warranted more of a build-up, imo.

I wish that there was a little more technical finesse and science fantasy sense-of-wonder in the script like in the old SG. The one guy who is the keenest on discovering the mysteries of the universe is both a little tragic and shady. Not a very positive-light character. Hopefully the Eli character will develop more in a positive direction.

Pharaoh Atem
May 19th, 2010, 09:37 PM
it's became unstable from dialing and the attack on the planet.

apostrophe
May 20th, 2010, 01:10 AM
the http://www.gateworld.net/wiki/Naquadria core became unstable

I could have sworn somewhere that some character said or implied naquadah was in the planet's core.

Per your link, Naquadria is described as being artificially made, so, as far as we know, the planet was formed naturally, therefore, it most likely would be naquadah or some other unstable presumably naturally occurring radioactive element. Naquadah would still pack plenty of punch.

Interestingly, I recall reading somewhere a theory that the heat inside the Earth is primarily being generated by nuclear decay, presumably uranium, not simply left-over heat from billions of years ago as previously thought. The heavy elements like uranium would have tended to sink when the Earth was formed from a molten mass. Hopefully there isn't too much uranium down there. :)

One of my favorite radio talk-show guests, Dr. Richard C. Hoagland, espoused a theory that Mars was actually once a satellite of another larger planet, that they formed a kind-of planetary pair, and that the other planet was destroyed in some kind of cataclysm, partial debris of which became what is now the asteroid belt. He assumed a collision, but, put the two theories together.. maybe it had a little too much uranium.

So there is enough scientific speculation around to support the sci-fi concept of a planet exploding due to a nuclear chain reaction. I don't have a problem with that.

The thing is, it's up to SGU fans to try to keep the writers on their toes when necessary. I think that they are really starting to sluff off lately. My constructive criticisms here are meant to try to spread a little awareness that there should be some kind of limit as to how much laziness they can get away with.

They don't explain how the power is being produced. And it's not at all clear how a simple glider bombardment could trigger a chain reaction of that proportion. OK, maybe a large naquadria bomb was dropped which would have transformed the naquadah and started the uncontrolled reaction. That explanation doesn't work very well because the Lucians clearly wanted to capture Icarus base, not destroy it. Unless they accidentally hit some key piece of technology that was needed to curtail the reaction. But we don't see or hear anything to indicate that.

So the gate, drawing a huge overload spike in the (unseen) energy catalyzing equipment with the 9th chevron lock-in, as another poster suggested, seems the most credible, but the viewers shouldn't have to try to figure that all out. See what I mean? Lazy writers. tsk tsk.

thekillman
May 20th, 2010, 01:25 AM
an element is artificial if it does not occur in nature. it never occurred before because it either 1: decays into naquahdah or 2: it blows up.


the planet exploded because the reaction no longer was under control.

latvian_stargatefan
May 20th, 2010, 01:57 AM
So the gate, drawing a huge overload spike in the (unseen) energy catalyzing equipment with the 9th chevron lock-in, as another poster suggested, seems the most credible, but the viewers shouldn't have to try to figure that all out. See what I mean? Lazy writers. tsk tsk.
SGU is a different kind of show. I don't think we'll see much of "reversing polarity, trinium hulls or quantum bubbles'' here... It's more about the characters on the ship, not about the technology and how it works... So... more things will be open for interpretation.

Sure, i like those sci-fi technobabble elements and explanations but sometimes (ike in the case of Voyager) it can go too far and the writers just start writing complete bulls*it...

thekillman
May 20th, 2010, 02:12 AM
first of all it's not lazy writing and second of all it's perfectly logical. the Icarus Base draws energy from a controlled reaction. however the LA's bombardment caused the reaction to go unstable and thus the planet blew up. how difficult is that?

apostrophe
May 20th, 2010, 12:46 PM
SGU is a different kind of show. I don't think we'll see much of "reversing polarity, trinium hulls or quantum bubbles'' here... It's more about the characters on the ship, not about the technology and how it works... So... more things will be open for interpretation.

I guess we can still all be fans but have differing sets of expectations.

For me, the mix seems to be getting too serious in the character department and a little too cavalier and uncaring in the tech area. For example, when Carter blew up the star, they had worked out how connecting to the black hole could do it. Similarly in "Trinity" when McKay blew up a solar system they had a nicely crafted theoretical physics model in detail to explain it. Far fringe speculative science extrapolation to be sure, but credible enough to satisfy most geek sensibilities. Here, it's like, a planet blowing up, ho hum. Just another cliché'.

I hope it doesn't get to the point like in so many old action-adventure movies, the car chase cliché': whenever the bad guy's car veers off the road and merely touches another object, it always magically bursts into flames and explodes. Of course it would explode, the good guy shot at it, after all. Apparently most viewers were expected to have no problem buying into something like that. Time after time. Come to think of it, you don't see that so much anymore. Viiewers apparently got fed up or wised up eventually.

The Scott character sums the situation up pretty well in his ironic reply to Eli at the stargate, who was marveling at all the amazing things he was seeing.

"It's weird how fast you can start to take something like this for granted."

Ironic in the sense that what he said could also apply to the show. One could imagine the writers showing through a little bit there. I take it as an indication that they know what's happening but are going with the flow, in the hope of "evolving" it to a broader audience.

I would say there is a danger of de-evolving when striving for the lowest common denominator.

Many years back at the onset of the present health mania, McDonald's came out with a vegetarian soy burger to try to reach a larger consumer base. It still looked like a hamburger, but the appeal ended there. After you ate it you still wanted an actual hamburger. Apparently the vegetarians weren't too impressed either after the novelty wore off, and went back to their more pure fare without the need for a soylent-mascarading-as-meat artifice.

The science fantasy/tech stuff is what makes a show like this what it is. If it gets too much like a afternoon "all my children", whatever, soap opera, the audience that really likes that sort of thing will likely just go back to the more pure fare after novelty wears off and dispense with the extraneous sci-fi element altogether. Meanwhile, the dedicated sci-fi affectionadoes get alienated. (no pun intended)


Sure, i like those sci-fi technobabble elements and explanations but sometimes (ike in the case of Voyager) it can go too far and the writers just start writing complete bulls*it...

Well, StarTrek is set in a completely different futuristic physics universe. Different set of rules. Though things are further out extrpolation-wise they usually manage to be self-consistant. In one commentary somebody said why don't they just say electricity? Well you need to accept that in the star-trek universe there is another form of energy flowing through the eps conduits that's like electricity in some ways, but electricity doesn't really behave like that. It has to be something else.

That's the difference between hard science fiction and science fantasy.

Hard science fiction is like engineering, you either have electricity or nothing. Science fantasy assumes things that don't exist, so far as we know, but, could exist, if, say, something like an old theory about the aether turned out to be right. It merely needs to be self-consistant in the established setting.

I suppose that some people may find it harder than others to switch gears between sub-genres.

But, yes, it can go too far in the other extreme. They try to be too smart and end up being dumb again.

Comes to mind is that one early Voyager episode where Paris and Janeway tested their new magically cobbled-together slipstream drive (starfleet's best scientists couldn't make one but somehow they slapped one together in one episode) but then as a side effect turned into giant lungfish, the explanation for why that happened was preposterous, even in startrek physics terms, yet the Doctor was still able to change them back again in time for the next episode.

I think the writers can be forgiven since they apologized for it in the commentary. I tend to skip over that episode. Definately.

apostrophe
May 20th, 2010, 01:03 PM
first of all it's not lazy writing and second of all it's perfectly logical. the Icarus Base draws energy from a controlled reaction. however the LA's bombardment caused the reaction to go unstable and thus the planet blew up. how difficult is that?

That's just it. It seems a little too pat.

I'm going with the 9th Chevron / overload causing it. That's what works for me.

But. OK. If that works for you.

Per some mining industry maps I recall looking at, there is a lot of Uranium in the Earth. In fact, it's all over the place, in most rocks and soil in fact, but usually in very low concentrations.

Nevertheless...

Maybe, should the occasion arise, try to be careful to not stamp your feet too hard. :)
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Steelbox
September 15th, 2010, 01:10 PM
That's just it. It seems a little too pat.

I'm going with the 9th Chevron / overload causing it. That's what works for me.

But. OK. If that works for you.

Per some mining industry maps I recall looking at, there is a lot of Uranium in the Earth. In fact, it's all over the place, in most rocks and soil in fact, but usually in very low concentrations.

Nevertheless...

Maybe, should the occasion arise, try to be careful to not stamp your feet too hard. :)
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The process of extracting energy from the naquadriah is not even close to simple. If you want a "theoretical physics model" for it take a look at Air part 1 you can clearly see the math on the white board Rush uses. The math in front of it is so exact that even an minuscule deviation of the equation could result in catastrophic explosion. Even as 0.0005% more or less energy could be bad. If you add something as explosions, even such small ones, to the equation, well, it will surely change the result. Another thing, the whole base shook under the shots from the Hatak. No small explosion can shaken an base that is inside an mountain.

apostrophe
September 15th, 2010, 04:08 PM
The process of extracting energy from the naquadriah is not even close to simple. If you want a "theoretical physics model" for it take a look at Air part 1 you can clearly see the math on the white board Rush uses. The math in front of it is so exact that even an minuscule deviation of the equation could result in catastrophic explosion. Even as 0.0005% more or less energy could be bad. If you add something as explosions, even such small ones, to the equation, well, it will surely change the result. Another thing, the whole base shook under the shots from the Hatak. No small explosion can shaken an base that is inside an mountain.

You know, that's pretty plausible. If we consider that they were in the process of extracting energy when the detonations occurred, then the surface explosions, even if not impacting directly, could still cause seismic shock waves that would propagate down and basically imbalance the delicate and dangerous reaction process that was underway, thusly leading to the cataclysmic chain reaction. Very good. I feel much better about the episode now. I see you put some thought into this. Thanks.