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View Full Version : why wasnt the 9th chevron earth's first point of origin?



_Famrir_
May 18th, 2010, 08:04 AM
Why did we dial Destiny with Earth's iconic P.O.O. when it should of been the beta gates P.O.O. since that was the one the Ancients used?

General Jumper One
May 18th, 2010, 08:34 AM
1) because it isn't iconic
2) the writers probably forgot

SaberBlade
May 18th, 2010, 09:06 AM
Probably just a production error. I've watched Stargate all the way back starting with the movie, and I didn't even realise it until just now. These things happen.

Osiristi
May 18th, 2010, 10:39 AM
Regarding this issue, my point of view has always been this:

- the symbol itself isn't significant
- a symbol is always connected to a set of co-ordinates (or some other value)
- the "code" address to Destiny is, just like any other address, actually a set of these values and not a set of symbols
- correspondence with a symbol and a value is fixed with every network update
- Earth is now represented by the Ã… symbol in the gate network

but I also have another possible explanation: they used an Earth computer, in which Earth p.o.o. is programmed to be Ã…

SGTB1991
May 18th, 2010, 01:26 PM
This is the thing that really bothered me. I agree with your idea that an adress is a set of values, but those values are represented by symbols, so why then would you have one symbol stand for two different things - Earth's POO and the Destiny code? (And what is the point of origin of the planet Icarus base was on? A wormhole can't connect without a point of origin - was the point of origin the 8th chevron in the 9-chevron sequence?)

And personally I highly doubt that the writers forgot or that it was a production error. The fact that the Earth POO symbol is in the title of SG-1 and SGA does make it iconic. All the fans recognize it and know what it is. It carries pretty significant weight in the progression of the show(s).

escyos
May 18th, 2010, 02:42 PM
were we ever told that the symbol carter used on the antarctic gate was the point of origin? answer: no, the A symbol works because its the earth point of origin. it the antarctic symbol was the point of orign then the show would have happened.

or maybe they changed the point of origin for that gate and decided it was better the way it was.

General Jumper One
May 18th, 2010, 02:57 PM
were we ever told that the symbol carter used on the antarctic gate was the point of origin? answer: no, the A symbol works because its the earth point of origin. it the antarctic symbol was the point of orign then the show would have happened.

or maybe they changed the point of origin for that gate and decided it was better the way it was.

We were told that the gate we use today was brought by Ra and the Antarctic gate was the original. The point of origin are all the same: ex) you can scratch out all of the keys on your keyboard or phone, and replace them with, say stargate constellations, the keyboard still works and the letters still type, but the image you see on your keyboard are the ones you just put there. So if I typed a constellation on my keyboard, on the screen it would show the letter I typed. So the original and the new point of origin are the same, but one is older than the other, and the dhd was located on this planet, from what I understand is that the point of origin is always in the same place, its the other symbols that are in different places.

_Famrir_
May 18th, 2010, 07:45 PM
We were told that the gate we use today was brought by Ra and the Antarctic gate was the original. The point of origin are all the same: ex) you can scratch out all of the keys on your keyboard or phone, and replace them with, say stargate constellations, the keyboard still works and the letters still type, but the image you see on your keyboard are the ones you just put there. So if I typed a constellation on my keyboard, on the screen it would show the letter I typed. So the original and the new point of origin are the same, but one is older than the other, and the dhd was located on this planet, from what I understand is that the point of origin is always in the same place, its the other symbols that are in different places.
That does make sense however if it was a code shouldnt it still be earth's original POO since the symbol was a code rather than a true POO

General Jumper One
May 18th, 2010, 09:30 PM
That does make sense however if it was a code shouldnt it still be earth's original POO since the symbol was a code rather than a true POO

I typed it to fast, what I meant is that if you were to replace the original letters on your keyboard with say constellations like the SGC keyboard then when you look down at the keyboard to see what letter you want to press, you don't see any but constellations, but when you press one on the screen its a letter. So on a DHD the point of origin is the same for that DHD, if you destroyed your original DHD and brought in a one new the point of origin would be the one for that DHD.

Horizonshard
May 19th, 2010, 12:34 PM
The Point of Origin has always been the only unique symbol on each stargate. It shouldn't matter what Point of Origin they entered, since it relays the same information. It would be as if you have millions of difference combination locks where 0 was replaced by random symbols. They would still all relay the value 0 to the lock when triggered.

Stargater276
May 20th, 2010, 11:50 AM
I don't think that's the main problem at all with them dialing the gate to Destiny. On every Stargate there are 37 of the same symbols and 1 unique point of origin, why was Earth's second point of origin on that Stargate?
And yes, I believe you're right the original point of origin should have worked, not the point of origin on Ra's Stargate.
What if they dialed the wrong address? That would be interesting.

General Jumper One
May 20th, 2010, 05:27 PM
Welcome Stargater276! !st post

Stargater276
May 20th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Thanks. Hopefully the first of many (And that I actually get the numbers right next time 39 symbols not 38).

Elite Anubis Guard
May 20th, 2010, 11:26 PM
To be honest, I still don't understand how this apparent code worked. Don't get me wrong, I love the show. The 9the 9th chevron would have to be the PoO so that would be "1" on the Gate. Earth's PoO, whichever symbol, doesn't matter, would still represent 1 back home, shouldn't have been on the Stargate. I seriously don't understand how or why our PoO was the answer.

Mike.
May 21st, 2010, 05:06 AM
From an old post of mine:

It was a code, like a password specifically hardcoded in every stargate to dial the Destiny. Nine chevrons so it doesn't interfere with normal galaxy-to-galaxy addresses. Proof: they used Earth's PoO (heh) on a planet nowhere close to it - it didn't need to be functional, just to "match".

I always imagined that this 9 ch. code used a completely different communication protocol - like sending a signal in all directions because Destiny could be anywhere (proof: massive power usage even before the connection was established), instead of a highly directional beam like normal gate communication - the gates routinely connect to each other to relay their (and other gates') location in a mesh networking fashion. (this might be another explanation for the Universe-class gates' small range - the directional signal to known locations was not implemented yet so the gates rely on the short range of one's signal - like a wifi's ssid).

Also it doesn't matter that Earth's symbol wasn't physically on the gate (or DHD), they used a dialing computer - they could input whatever they liked.

Horizonshard
May 21st, 2010, 09:06 AM
From an old post of mine:

It was a code, like a password specifically hardcoded in every stargate to dial the Destiny. Nine chevrons so it doesn't interfere with normal galaxy-to-galaxy addresses. Proof: they used Earth's PoO (heh) on a planet nowhere close to it - it didn't need to be functional, just to "match".

I always imagined that this 9 ch. code used a completely different communication protocol - like sending a signal in all directions because Destiny could be anywhere (proof: massive power usage even before the connection was established), instead of a highly directional beam like normal gate communication - the gates routinely connect to each other to relay their (and other gates') location in a mesh networking fashion. (this might be another explanation for the Universe-class gates' small range - the directional signal to known locations was not implemented yet so the gates rely on the short range of one's signal - like a wifi's ssid).

Also it doesn't matter that Earth's symbol wasn't physically on the gate (or DHD), they used a dialing computer - they could input whatever they liked.

That makes a whole lot of sense. Because, regardless of which of Earth's symbols you input, it would send the same value. So it could be that either symbol would have worked.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
May 21st, 2010, 09:46 AM
Well Ra didn't invent the stargate so he would have recalibrated a gate from another planet and changed point of origin to earths location. So then the Destiny knew the A symbol was earths new 'number' and accept it. Like if you get a new phone number and Text everyone in your phonebook your new number. I hope that makes sense as I only have a loose understanding of how the gate works.

kymeric
May 21st, 2010, 10:41 AM
It hardly matters, they could scrape off the pyramid with a sun and draw a pair of boobs and it would still be the same PoO. Although if the ran with the mistake, maybe the earth symbol planet, wherever it was that ra took it from, maybe THAT was an icarus planet and where the code was intended to be dialed from?

Stargater276
May 21st, 2010, 10:56 AM
It hardly matters, they could scrape off the pyramid with a sun and draw a pair of boobs and it would still be the same PoO. Although if the ran with the mistake, maybe the earth symbol planet, wherever it was that ra took it from, maybe THAT was an icarus planet and where the code was intended to be dialed from?

That sounds possible. I think there needs to some kind of clarification on how they really dialed Destiny.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
May 21st, 2010, 11:04 AM
It hardly matters, they could scrape off the pyramid with a sun and draw a pair of boobs and it would still be the same PoO. Although if the ran with the mistake, maybe the earth symbol planet, wherever it was that ra took it from, maybe THAT was an icarus planet and where the code was intended to be dialed from?

Yes that would be funny.

strods
May 25th, 2010, 02:58 PM
2 anwsers, real life and in show
Real life: The current delta symbol is iconic, it's the brand of the show. Only we detailed particular fans really realize the original symbol from the Antartic Beta Gate.

In show:
My anwser to these symbol questions is always correletive update. We know the gates automatically dial each other to update their stellar drift position. It's reasonable to assume that when the Giza Gate went active on the grid the correlative update went out and started updating earth origin symbol in programming.

Though never seen, I would not be suprised if there were a handful of gates in each Galaxy, connected to great powersources, that upon receiveing their update, automatically dial Galatic neighbors to carry the updates across the 'verse.

As it's galatically hopping When the Destiny starts dialing into gates then I wouldn't be suprised if it was getting the local update of the networks.

timmciglobal
June 3rd, 2010, 08:59 PM
What if that is what destiny is for? Once the gate seeder ships complete it was to travel to each update the program with information on where others are and where to find them? It was the ancients destiny to bring travel through the cosmos to the universe. That would solve the question as to why seed them all if you can only dial locally. Maybe it's waiting to be turned on by destiny once it's done cataloging and programming them all.

Rylor
June 10th, 2010, 01:10 AM
I noticed that too. Like strods wrote, it can be explained from two points of view.

1. Real life
The writers forgot (or didn't really care). We had the same problem in SG-1: When the Beta gate was in use at the SGC, we always see the Point of Origin from the Alpha gate, because footage of the gate being dialed was re-used. The Alpha Point of Origin is also far more easily regocnized by viewers.

2. In-universe
My theory: When Destiny was dialed, it sent a signal to Earth and "asked" the active gate for its Point of Origin. The Alpha gate responded with the pyramid symbol, Destiny re-checked the address and if the correct Point of Origin was used, it established the wormhole.