Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Old gate model, Destiny's FTL drive.. Hmm.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Old gate model, Destiny's FTL drive.. Hmm.

    What if.

    The FTL drive of Destiny is slower than the Ancient's hyperdrives?
    In SGA, the Ancients had a ship moving near lightspeed using only sublight engines.
    It is highly likely that they had a hyperdrive which was much faster than our current hyperdrives.

    Given the timeframe, this seems a likely solution to the FTL/Hyperdrive issue.

    The Destiny looks like it was build in some kind of industrial revolution of the Ancients. The design is far but ergonomic, and indicates old design. The same goes for the gate, which seems to be the oldest design of the known gates.

    Given the possible industrial revolution, this might be the time when the ancients developed the gates and a means of traveling faster than light, where the FTL drive seems to be rather a bypass than the more advanced hyperdrive, which travels through a different layer of space. The ancients were just that good that they could have later on build a hyperdrive faster than the FLT drive, but that's information yet out of our reach. We do know of the possibility of those fast hyperdrives, since in SG1, in the replicator season, it was shown in the black hole episode where carter and tealc nearly get sucked in. Then to think that was a hyperdrive of goauld design.

    Given that they need to seed the gates before they can use those to travel even faster, this could have been motivation for them to build the seeding ships - only unaware of the fact that just a single galaxy, hence even their home galaxy, could contain incredible amounts of things to learn from, let alone travelling to many, many galaxies. This could also mean the introduction of a smaller seperate network of gates in the Milkyway Galaxy, that of the older gates. Why wouldn't they explore their home galaxy first?

    #2
    Originally posted by Senzune View Post
    The FTL drive of Destiny is slower than the Ancient's hyperdrives?
    The Ancients had two types of hyperdrive: ones used for intragalactic travel and ones used for intergalactic.

    Their intergalactic hyperdrives do seem to be faster than the Destiny's FTL, but not by much. However, both Destiny's FTL and the intergalactic hyperdrives seem to be far faster than the intragalactic hyperdrives.




    Originally posted by Senzune View Post
    The Destiny looks like it was build in some kind of industrial revolution of the Ancients. The design is far but ergonomic, and indicates old design. The same goes for the gate, which seems to be the oldest design of the known gates.
    By the time the Ancients launched Destiny, they had already left their home galaxy and traveled to the Milky Way, meaning that they were already a very advanced civilization at that point.


    Originally posted by Senzune View Post
    Given that they need to seed the gates before they can use those to travel even faster, this could have been motivation for them to build the seeding ships - only unaware of the fact that just a single galaxy, hence even their home galaxy, could contain incredible amounts of things to learn from, let alone travelling to many, many galaxies.
    Just as a side note, the Milky Way is not the Ancients' home galaxy.



    Originally posted by Senzune View Post
    Why wouldn't they explore their home galaxy first?
    If you mean "why wouldn't the explore the Milky Way first?" the answer is probably did explore it when they were first colonizing it.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

    Comment


      #3
      If given enough power, an asgard hyperdrive can travel 3 million light years to the pegasus galaxy in few days (4 days I believe). I guess the Destiny took longer to travel the void.

      Comment


        #4
        I think the speed is really just down to the power available for the drive.. but perhaps the FTL is totally untraceable, we've seen ships being tracked and even attacked through hyperspace so perhaps the ancients chose FTL for Destiny to increase the chances it wouldn't be stopped on its mission.. like the blues had to put a thing for tracking it on it...
        I dunno what to put in here now..

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Puddle-Jumper View Post
          I think the speed is really just down to the power available for the drive..
          Where did you get this idea?

          I mean, we have exactly 1 example of this drive, and we have not seen how it behaves with different power inputs, or anything of that nature.

          To be frank, we have not even established that different iDestiny-style-FTL-equipped ships can travel at different speeds. I mean, maybe the reason that the Destiny-style FTL was abandoned was because it can travel only at a specific speed, with that speed perhaps based on environmental conditions.


          Originally posted by Puddle-Jumper View Post
          but perhaps the FTL is totally untraceable, we've seen ships being tracked and even attacked through hyperspace so perhaps the ancients chose FTL for Destiny to increase the chances it wouldn't be stopped on its mission.. like the blues had to put a thing for tracking it on it...
          Except that they didn't really need that tracking device to have a rough idea of its location in "Lost."
          "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
          - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

          "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
          - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

          "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
          - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

          Comment


            #6
            Well they are getting caught up in a very common SciFi mistake with regard to speeds. The reason one uses Hyper-drive instead of true FTL is because because there are time dilation issues when traveling that fast. SGU has not even brought up the concept of how they dealing with the relative nature of space-time.

            Using hyper-drive allows bypassing of this particularly annoying law of physics. Obviously this is solved somehow as communication stones don't reveal that time has slowed down from the crew. Perhaps the FTL drive is a precursor to hyper-drive, as in... Hyper-drive works by going into another layer of space-time to travel. The FTL drive in Destiny may do something similar except if it doesn't go far enough into subspace to penetrate into hyper-space but sort of goes in between. It could be that it does good intergalactic speeds but is far less efficient then a 'modern' Ancient hyper-drive.

            Comment


              #7
              to the OP:

              1. depending on what time frame your thinking of in terms of ancients technology. We know that when they left their original galaxy 'avalon' it took many thousands of years to get here. The nice thing about this, is that the farther away your willing to accept avalon is, the faster and faster destiny MUST be since destiny was launched 'thousands' of years after they already had intergalactic hyperdrives...

              2. if i remember correctly it was stated that destiny was launched at the height of their civilization exploration age...but i would have to find the quote exactly

              3. hyperdrive of gauld design modified by a ancient mind, that was modified something like 30 fold. Also your in a time loop. They had ftl before destiny, or else they would have never gotten here from avalon. they did eventually have drives faster than ftl, wormhole drive...

              4. They had to leave their home galaxy because the ori were litterally whipping them out of existence, and this has supposidly happened more than once. For all of the ancients advance tech, they sure as hell got annihilated at least 3 times in their journey, and twice presumably by the same group, ori.

              But we do at least know a few things...that it was mere weeks if not days that it took to cross from galaxy to galaxy since that pregg girl isnt even showing yet, and you can tell after 3 months...so we know that Destiny is fast or at least the writers are doing a hell of a good job at making it as slow as a buggy one episode then as fast as a rocket the next....

              Comment


                #8
                I'm now a bit back in the loop given the Ancient's timeframes, but it still doesn't explain the adversative industrial design of the ship supposed to be build at the height of their civilisation, and the same goes for their 'analog' stargate. Any clearance on that?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by elitewolverine View Post
                  The nice thing about this, is that the farther away your willing to accept avalon is, the faster and faster destiny MUST be since destiny was launched 'thousands' of years after they already had intergalactic hyperdrives...
                  A. We are on or in Avalon. It is pretty clearly stated that Avalon is Earth or the Milky Way.

                  B. We have no idea what kind of drive technology the Ancients had when they left their home galaxy, nor how their drive technology developed afterward. For all we know, their drives had the same top speed for millions of years until someone invented the FTL used on Destiny

                  Actually, that isn't entirely true: we do know that their intergalactic hyperdrives are a separate design from their "standard" hyperdrives.



                  Originally posted by elitewolverine View Post
                  3. hyperdrive of gauld design modified by a ancient mind, that was modified something like 30 fold. Also your in a time loop. They had ftl before destiny, or else they would have never gotten here from avalon. they did eventually have drives faster than ftl, wormhole drive...
                  ...to Avalon, actually. Anyway, I already pointed out that the Ancients had to have some type of FTL technology before arriving on Earth.

                  Also, the wormhole drive isn't necessarily faster than Destiny-style FTL when it needs to make multiple jumps to reach its destination.


                  Originally posted by elitewolverine View Post
                  so we know that Destiny is fast or at least the writers are doing a hell of a good job at making it as slow as a buggy one episode then as fast as a rocket the next....
                  Yeah, in one episode it travels the better part of a day without passing out of the range of the Stargates, then in the next, it has crossed the void in no time.
                  "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                  - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                  "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                  - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                  "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                  - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TitanShadow View Post
                    Well they are getting caught up in a very common SciFi mistake with regard to speeds. The reason one uses Hyper-drive instead of true FTL is because because there are time dilation issues when traveling that fast. SGU has not even brought up the concept of how they dealing with the relative nature of space-time.
                    What? Why would there be any time dilation issues when travelling at FTL speeds on Destiny? Time dilation effects occur as you approach the speed of light in a local frame of reference. Why would you want to get anywhere near that speed when you had an FTL drive?

                    Originally posted by TitanShadow View Post
                    Using hyper-drive allows bypassing of this particularly annoying law of physics. Obviously this is solved somehow as communication stones don't reveal that time has slowed down from the crew. Perhaps the FTL drive is a precursor to hyper-drive, as in... Hyper-drive works by going into another layer of space-time to travel. The FTL drive in Destiny may do something similar except if it doesn't go far enough into subspace to penetrate into hyper-space but sort of goes in between. It could be that it does good intergalactic speeds but is far less efficient then a 'modern' Ancient hyper-drive.
                    Using any form of FTL drive allows you to bypass that particularly annoying law of physics. The whole point of any FTL drive, both in terms of scifi shows and real world theories, is to allow travel at great speeds without having to worry about relativistic effects. A FTL drive would be of little use if using it still meant that you had to achieve speeds close to c in relation to local space before you could travel at speeds greater than c in relation to a much larger area of space.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Destiny's FTL is obviously slower than later model hyper-drives by a decent margin, but it's still fast enough to travel a void between galaxies in a few weeks...so all in all a pretty fast ship!
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Krazeh View Post
                        What? Why would there be any time dilation issues when travelling at FTL speeds on Destiny? Time dilation effects occur as you approach the speed of light in a local frame of reference. Why would you want to get anywhere near that speed when you had an FTL drive?

                        Using any form of FTL drive allows you to bypass that particularly annoying law of physics. The whole point of any FTL drive, both in terms of scifi shows and real world theories, is to allow travel at great speeds without having to worry about relativistic effects. A FTL drive would be of little use if using it still meant that you had to achieve speeds close to c in relation to local space before you could travel at speeds greater than c in relation to a much larger area of space.
                        Just the fact that an FTL drive is used does not mean it bypasses the issues of reletivity since FTL is Faster Than Light. Is reasonable to bring up the issues of reletivity and the impact that has on time. This is difficult to deal with on screen and as far back as the testing incident with the X301 traversing the solar system way too quickly for standard Newtonian pysics.

                        The whole point of an FTL drive is to... Travel faster than light, which raises practical concerns but the Destiny FTL seems to be protrayed as never leaving normal space time. Also issues of relativity are not resolved on a large scale even if resolved on a small scale. What I mean is, any region on space with a special energy configuration could counteract the effects of local relativity but the larger an area to remain relative to the more exotic the required energy configuration and the farther range it needs to encompass. As long as you remain in normal space not having reletivity issues with Earth seems illogical. Thus they must be partially leaving normal space and this points to the FTL being some precursor to hyperdrive that doesn't entirely leave normal space but partially leaves it as to avoid the laws of relativity.

                        PS - Sorry for typos, I am on my iPhone.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I think the FTl system was made for traveling for extensive period of time, it is certainly more economic in power ressources than any classic hyperdrive.
                          Perfect for exploration in a sense.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by TitanShadow View Post
                            Just the fact that an FTL drive is used does not mean it bypasses the issues of reletivity since FTL is Faster Than Light.
                            Except that Relativity stops making interpretable predictions when relative speeds exceed c, so any sort of FTL, by default, bypasses the issues of relativity.




                            Originally posted by TitanShadow View Post
                            Is reasonable to bring up the issues of reletivity and the impact that has on time. This is difficult to deal with on screen and as far back as the testing incident with the X301 traversing the solar system way too quickly for standard Newtonian pysics.
                            Actually, if I recall correctly, the only problem was the time delay for signals to get from the 301 to Earth and from Earth to the 301.
                            "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
                            - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

                            "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
                            - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

                            "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
                            - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Well, you have a point there... In excess of the speed of light is kind of no-mans-land of physics. I'll give you that one.

                              However... That was my point with the episode about the 301, they did the time delay because of the speed of light but going as fast as they would have had to go to get where they ended up by the end of the episode was close enough to the speed of light to create relativistic issues.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X