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Artemis-Neith
May 15th, 2010, 04:25 AM
Thanks to IrishPisano for setting the basis for the title (Camile Wray) :)
and to Lahela for her advise :)


What about Spoilers? All discussions should go up to the last episode broadcast on SyFy.


Ok, folks, we already have a few threads about one of the most hated, or most liked character of SGU: Robert Carlyle/Dr Nicholas Rush Thunk/Appreciation thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/62095-Robert-Carlyle-Dr-Nicholas-Rush-Thunk-Appreciation-thread), two shipping threads, up to now: The Rush/Mandy Ship thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/74755-The-Rush-Mandy-Ship-thread) and Dr Nicholas Rush/Eli Wallace Slash/Discussion/Appreciation (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/70727-Dr-Nicholas-Rush-Eli-Wallace-Slash-Discussion-Appreciation). A few other threads are hidden among the episode discussions, and there may be more I’m not aware of.
While the first one is foremost about the actor behind the SGU character Dr. Nicholas Rush, which includes from time to time also discussions about Dr. Rush, and the other two dealing with possible (more or less) relationships between Rush and another person, we still miss a thread to discuss the character of Dr. Rush. A thread where we can discuss his actions and behaviour, which is quite often a reason for heatedly arguments. The pros and cons of interactions between him and other characters of Destiny.
In addition to a general discussion about Nicholas Rush, I would propose, to include here also links to all threads, where he’s mainly mentioned, so that we have this place as a kind of base for further informations.

And to start here’s the first question I have: what’s exactly his profession? Is he a Mathematician, or a (Astro-) Physicist, or something else?
I thought that he was a Professor for Mathematics before he started his work for the Stargate program. It seems to me, but I might be wrong, that he did as the leading scientist the basic calculations to solve the energy problem to dial the ninth chevron back at Icarus, which in the end was solved by Eli. While Rush worked on that very problem, he had to learn a lot of things about the Ancients, and their technology, about their language, and how to connect Ancient’s with Earth’s technology. That’s IMO, the reason why he’s indeed the most qualified specialist for everything about that at Destiny, the other scientist are more specialised, while he did the general work.

Bismillah
May 20th, 2010, 08:52 AM
The writers have clearly put a lot of effort into creating a complex character that can be both admired and feared. I think that he has been created as a borderline sociopath and definatly a loose canon. Having lost a wife myself, I feel that a person becomes broken, and replaces their loss with (insert reason here) to give them a reason to go on living. "Busy behavior" is a common replacement.
I am going on the assumption that his wife is indeed dead, and he has come to terms with this, but this is scifi and anything is possible. We might yet see her.

EllieVee
May 20th, 2010, 04:10 PM
The writers have clearly put a lot of effort into creating a complex character that can be both admired and feared. I think that he has been created as a borderline sociopath and definatly a loose canon. Having lost a wife myself, I feel that a person becomes broken, and replaces their loss with (insert reason here) to give them a reason to go on living. "Busy behavior" is a common replacement.
I am going on the assumption that his wife is indeed dead, and he has come to terms with this, but this is scifi and anything is possible. We might yet see her.

Um ... ?

gotthammer
May 20th, 2010, 04:27 PM
Um ... ?

As much as I think she's dead, too...it won't be the first time if someone came back from the dead. :lol:
It IS science fiction.
Heck, I'd love to see them try to pull that off...and make it work (i.e., believable/not 'forced' or 'cliche', etc.). :valaanime06:

ladypredator
May 21st, 2010, 06:53 AM
Gloria Rush is dead - that is a huge part of Rush's character and motivation. We'll see her again in his memories, flashbacks, maybe even more chair-like experiences, or even an alien force of some kind taking her form, but the woman is dead. Buried.

It's important to the Rush character that he deal with his grief and the damage it did to him emotionally and personally. We're already starting to see that with his interaction with Mandy in "Sabotage."

There is absolutely nothing even borderline sociopathic about Rush. He feels deep emotions - it's his grief over losing the love of his life that is driving him. Sociopaths are incapable of feeling emotions, especially not the kind of intense love Rush felt for Gloria. He's shown a wide range of emotions, pain, loss, hurt, anger, caring, kindness (Chloe, Mandy) - he's extremely complex, true, and obsessed with his work, and he has screwed up on occasion, but don't throw around words like "sociopath" without understanding what they actually mean.

Artemis-Neith
May 21st, 2010, 08:38 AM
Gloria Rush is dead - that is a huge part of Rush's character and motivation. We'll see her again in his memories, flashbacks, maybe even more chair-like experiences, or even an alien force of some kind taking her form, but the woman is dead. Buried.

It's important to the Rush character that he deal with his grief and the damage it did to him emotionally and personally. We're already starting to see that with his interaction with Mandy in "Sabotage."

There is absolutely nothing even borderline sociopathic about Rush. He feels deep emotions - it's his grief over losing the love of his life that is driving him. Sociopaths are incapable of feeling emotions, especially not the kind of intense love Rush felt for Gloria. He's shown a wide range of emotions, pain, loss, hurt, anger, caring, kindness (Chloe, Mandy) - he's extremely complex, true, and obsessed with his work, and he has screwed up on occasion, but don't throw around words like "sociopath" without understanding what they actually mean.

You're absolutely right about Rush's wife. It is an immense part of his outward appearence (I would green you, if I were allowed to do!). I'm sure that the grief about her loss, and him not being with her enough during her last weeks (cos he was working on that very little problem at Icarus base, which was solved in the end by Eli), brought him to that questionalble decission to dial the ninth chevron address, instead of any other place, to save the people from Icarus. Let that occasion pass away, would made her dying meaningless.

And you're also very right about this quite often mentioned term sociopath. There are some threads about this in the earlier episodes of SGU. I'll collect them, and give the links here (when I've more time in the evening).

Artemis-Neith
May 21st, 2010, 12:44 PM
The writers have clearly put a lot of effort into creating a complex character that can be both admired and feared. I think that he has been created as a borderline sociopath and definatly a loose canon. Having lost a wife myself, I feel that a person becomes broken, and replaces their loss with (insert reason here) to give them a reason to go on living. "Busy behavior" is a common replacement.

As ladypedator pointed already out, Rush is, and was never a borderline sociopath. He might be very reserved, and seems to be quite callous, but some of his behaviour speaks a different language. If you want to go more in detail about this topic, I've found a thread, which includes it in the thread title (and I'm sure there're countless mentions everywhere in the forum):
Thread: Rush isn't a sociopath.
http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/72044-Rush-isn-t-a-sociopath.

You'll find there definitions of sociopath, and quite a lot of different interpretations of Rush's character!

ladypredator
May 21st, 2010, 07:21 PM
In "Subversion" we get so much more of what Rush is made of - and it's good stuff.

Just because it's just been broadcast in the US and not elsewhere yet...
Rush is obviously deeply concerned by the attack on Icarus which set the whole thing off -- he was incredibly frustrated by what that attack did to his work, his attempt to give some kind of meaning to Gloria's death. He freely puts himself on the line.

I love how Kiva says that a civilian or scientist couldn't have stood up to the torture she puts him through, so she thinks it must be a soldier, but it isn't. Just an extremely courageous, tough, determined man. I was almost waiting for him to make some comment about having been tortured worse by aliens already. He sure stands up a lot longer than almost anyone else could. And even at the end, as scared for his life as he is, you still get the sense he's stalling as much as he can.

I almost felt bad for the LA scientist. Rush really is just stalling... you can see how stunned and horrified he is by the murder in front of him. Scared the bleep outta him.

Got to be impressed with Rush in this. The man has a lot more strength than anyone gives him credit for. Stuck in an impossible situation again, poor man, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a surprise or two for Kiva and her folks even if they do force him to get them through to Destiny.

ONeill4tW
May 25th, 2010, 03:00 PM
I think the fact that he is such a complex and deep character is what makes the show even interesting. Rush and Young, imo, are the driving force behind the show like O'Neill and Teal'c were for SG-1. Rush more so, just like O'Neill more so.

ladypredator
June 2nd, 2010, 07:05 AM
What I'm really interested in seeing is how Rush responds to Young's attempt to suffocate Telford and thus himself... This is what, the third or fourth time, that Young has nearly murdered Rush? I wonder if that will go the distance towards making Rush willing to make the Ninth Chevron connection work for Kiva.

You'd think Young would've figured out by this point that whatever he might get from Telford isn't anywhere near Rush's value to the Lucian Alliance. But no, again, Young's acting out of wounded pride and vengeance without thought for the consequences. He may have gone too far this time.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how Rush handles the fact that Young's remaining more of a danger to him than even the Lucian Alliance. Maybe I am just projecting a bit, but if I were Rush, I'd be out for Young's blood.

EllieVee
June 2nd, 2010, 05:31 PM
I suspect nothing will happen with it at all.

ladypredator
June 2nd, 2010, 06:02 PM
I suspect nothing will happen with it at all.

That would be a shame. Young really should have to deal with some consequences after all this. Supposedly he's trying to win back some of the respect he lost and then he pulls stunts like this - Camile's screaming at him and even Scott is disturbed and Scott's dumb as a door nail and less sensitive. You'd think this would have some effect in the long run. Well - I suppose that's what fanfic is for.

I guess another likely reaction from Rush could be to get back to the Destiny where he wants to be, and then tell both Kiva and Young to go to hell together. By this point, he probably doesn't see much difference between them.

I just keep waiting for everyone to realize Young is completely unhinged.

kudra
June 3rd, 2010, 03:29 PM
That would be a shame. Young really should have to deal with some consequences after all this. Supposedly he's trying to win back some of the respect he lost and then he pulls stunts like this - Camile's screaming at him and even Scott is disturbed and Scott's dumb as a door nail and less sensitive. You'd think this would have some effect in the long run. Well - I suppose that's what fanfic is for.

I guess another likely reaction from Rush could be to get back to the Destiny where he wants to be, and then tell both Kiva and Young to go to hell together. By this point, he probably doesn't see much difference between them.

I just keep waiting for everyone to realize Young is completely unhinged.

I'm really hoping there will be some method to Young's madness in Subversion - that he somehow knows suffocation cures Lucian Alliance brainwashing or something similar because otherwise he's being portrayed as foolish, cruel & a bit psycho (again). I can just about get past the attempted murder in Justice if I see it as him losing it (temporary insanity) and not coming to his senses until it was too late to go back for Rush. I do wish the writers had shown him feeling guilty about it more clearly before Rush returned though.

I'm not sure how Rush or the viewers are supposed to get over Young leaving Rush to be tortured (he had to know the LA would use torture) and risking his life unless theres a very compelling reason and the reasons given in the episode seemed a bit flimsy to me. Otherwise you're quite right what real difference would Rush see between Young and Kiva - both use torture and both apparently kill scientists who disappoint them.

ONeill4tW
June 4th, 2010, 11:15 AM
I'm really hoping there will be some method to Young's madness in Subversion - that he somehow knows suffocation cures Lucian Alliance brainwashing or something similar because otherwise he's being portrayed as foolish, cruel & a bit psycho (again). I can just about get past the attempted murder in Justice if I see it as him losing it (temporary insanity) and not coming to his senses until it was too late to go back for Rush. I do wish the writers had shown him feeling guilty about it more clearly before Rush returned though.

I'm not sure how Rush or the viewers are supposed to get over Young leaving Rush to be tortured (he had to know the LA would use torture) and risking his life unless theres a very compelling reason and the reasons given in the episode seemed a bit flimsy to me. Otherwise you're quite right what real difference would Rush see between Young and Kiva - both use torture and both apparently kill scientists who disappoint them.

Life on Destiny

Day 84

Young tried to kill me again. He used the interrogation of Telford as an excuse this time. The man wonders why I'm hostile towards him.

Day 85

Young is acting like nothing has happened. I'm beginning to wonder how much exactly is this man mentally disturbed.

Day 90

Young again. Once more he's done something that has the crew questioning his mental stability.

Day 95

Camille and I are planning on removing Young permanently from command again. Only one problem, Greer. The incident with the ticks shows that the man won't hesitate in shooting us next time. We'll need to remove him first somehow. I wonder if Brody could make his moonshine a bit more potent to knock out even an elephant for hours?

Day 102

Mutiny take 2.



That's what I foresee happening :-p

ladypredator
June 5th, 2010, 11:51 AM
Life on Destiny

Day 84

Young tried to kill me again. He used the interrogation of Telford as an excuse this time. The man wonders why I'm hostile towards him.

Day 85

Young is acting like nothing has happened. I'm beginning to wonder how much exactly is this man mentally disturbed.

Day 90

Young again. Once more he's done something that has the crew questioning his mental stability.

Day 95

Camille and I are planning on removing Young permanently from command again. Only one problem, Greer. The incident with the ticks shows that the man won't hesitate in shooting us next time. We'll need to remove him first somehow. I wonder if Brody could make his moonshine a bit more potent to knock out even an elephant for hours?

Day 102

Mutiny take 2.



That's what I foresee happening :-p

LOL - certainly could happen that way.

Actually, given his behavior in the last two eps, even Scott and O'Neill are beginning to question Young. Good to see Scott actually show some backbone briefly and for O'Neill to give him a much-needed dressing down.

And Rush was right when he gives Camile and Young an earful about the situation - they're not going to get out of this without people being hurt. It's a battle. But again, it takes Rush's pragmatic, if somewhat brutal, honesty to point out the reality of it and, of course, Young doesn't want to listen as usual, but by the time O'Neill's told him the same thing, he finally has to admit Rush is right. Young ought to have figured out by this point that Rush is almost always right, esp in a crisis.

It makes Rush seem harsh when he says these things, but he's just stating the truth. Saying what everyone knows but doesn't want to admit, which takes guts. But then Rush is an incredibly strong man and he knows what his priorities are and he always thinks through to the long term consequences. He always has good, logical reasons. Young is so concerned with how people see him, in being the 'hero', in being liked that he doesn't think, he just reacts emotionally and irrationally, inconsistently. No wonder Rush gets so incredibly frustrated with him.

You'd think Rush would've earned some respect at this point. And he knows more about Kiva and the Lucian Alliance than any of the others, after all he was their prisoner for a while and it was leaving him in their hands that allowed in the attack in the first place. Young should've gotten him out of there as soon as they had even the slightest idea of what was happening.

And no concern from anyone over the fact that he was captured and tortured. Young's more concerned for Telford, who was the traitor, than for Rush who risked his life to find the truth.

kansaikimono
June 5th, 2010, 07:49 PM
Oh, thank you for starting this thread. Much more interesting!

I think it speaks well of Rush's character when Kiva is endeavoring to discover who he is and she comments, "I doubt very much that civilians or the scientists would have endured this, so the question is whether or not Colonel Young would have put himself in this situation or sent his first lieutenant, Scott."

So, the torture must be more mentally abusive than physically, because he certainly has the advantage of having Telford's relatively younger, fit body so as to endure the pain.

As to Young's decision about venting the air, I think his greater concern is for David Telford - certainly not Rush. Young calls Telford by his first name; no one uses Rush's first name except Wray and Mandy. Young also comments that Telford's "recent behavior" is the result of the brainwashing and so it is implied that before that point in time, he must've been a great guy and possibly a close friend of Young's.

Young (O'Neill for that matter, too) was apparently not concerned for Rush's welfare while he was in the custody of the LA. It's been stated that no one is really sure what will happen if one of the two parties using the stone dies, but hey! let's "kill" David and worry about Rush later. Same thing happened after Rush endured the Chair. No "Are you all right?" but rather, "All right, listen to me. We've got five minutes to stop this ship from jumping into F.T.L."

And I realize it's a script thing, but was there no debriefing for Rush and Chloe when they returned from the alien ship? Isn't someone concerned about how Rush is handling his abduction, which we know was especially traumatic because of the resulting "tick terror" episode? Granted, Rush probably wouldn't want to talk about it anyway. He gave TJ the cold shoulder when she tried to ask him a few questions early on. But after so much, I think he would at least feel better just knowing that someone cares enough to ask after him. It must have done him some good to have had Chloe to talk to and Mandy later on.

The one thing that concerns me re his character development is that he appeared to have adopted a softer attitude after the Chair incident, but recent events seem to have returned him to his old self. All that bickering! Although, given Young's inaction, I'd probably let loose in frustration, too. Young's handling of this crisis has certainly given weight to Rush's accusation that Young isn't capable of making the hard decisions, with which O'Neill seems to agree.

There was that moment when Rush had to make a decision to go back for TJ, but Brody sealed the door. What do you think Rush would have done had not Brody intervened? What is the relationship between Brody and Rush?

And how did Rush find time to change from his fatigues back into his jeans and t-shirt during the middle of a crisis?

ONeill4tW
June 6th, 2010, 01:00 AM
The one thing that concerns me re his character development is that he appeared to have adopted a softer attitude after the Chair incident, but recent events seem to have returned him to his old self. All that bickering! Although, given Young's inaction, I'd probably let loose in frustration, too. Young's handling of this crisis has certainly given weight to Rush's accusation that Young isn't capable of making the hard decisions, with which O'Neill seems to agree.

I think Rush was just in a very foul mood. He did just come back from being tortured again and held prisoner with his life on the line if he failed to make a connection for the Lucian Alliance. I'd be in a foul mood too if my de facto leader was choosing a traitor over the safety of the ship and crew. Plus I imagine for Rush if the Lucian Alliance were to capture everyone, his life would become a lot more hellish. Kiva seems quite unhappy with the destruction of Icarus II and perhaps he really did blow it up on purpose and knows he's screwed if Kiva gets ahold of him.

The guy has no luck in this show. He's like the character that the writer's decide to sadistically torture on purpose.

Let's see...

Air
---
Gets blamed for Senator Armstrongs death.
Chloe tries to beat him up.
Greer beats him up somewhat.

Time
------
End's up in the past on a hostile alien planet and spends the rest of his days as fodder for the um whatever they were. Though I found it rather intriguing that he ends up holding his own skull a la Hamlet.

Justice
------
Gets beat up by Young.
Gets abandoned by Young.
Stranded

Between Justice and Space
-------------------------------
Abducted.
Tortured.
Mind Probed.
Implanted.

Space
-------
Migraine of the size of the universe when communing with Alien!Young

Divided
-------
Gets a gun pointed at him by Young.
Gets open surgery in the middle of a battle.
Wakes up during said surgery! Ouch.

Human
------
Goes through traumatic experience all over again.
Nearly dies in chair from a cardiac episode.

Pain
-----
Hallucinates Blue Aliens taking over ship.
Gets beat up by Greer again.
Gets beat up by another soldier.

Subversion
-------------

In Telford's body he gets:
Captured.
Tortured.
Life threatened.

His own body gets:
Beat up by Greer AND Young.

Incursion Pt 1
-----------------

His own body gets:
Suffocated to Death which then results in....

Telford's body:
Seisure.
Hand stabbed.

Now back in his own body he gets:
Shot at by Kiva.


Poor guy... He needs some love after that season. Lol.

EllieVee
June 6th, 2010, 01:46 AM
Plenty of Rush love here (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/62095-Robert-Carlyle-Dr-Nicholas-Rush-Thunk-Appreciation-thread), of course. ;)

ONeill4tW
June 6th, 2010, 11:06 AM
Plenty of Rush love here (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/62095-Robert-Carlyle-Dr-Nicholas-Rush-Thunk-Appreciation-thread), of course. ;)

Indeed!

Though I wonder what torment they'll put him through in Part 2. Probably more Young yelling at him or maybe Kiva glaring daggers? Lol.

I'm surprised though that after all he's been through he hasn't cracked yet. I mean the guy's been tortured/tormented twice by non-Terrans. That has gotta effect his mental state somehow. Right?

kansaikimono
June 6th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Some of you may have seen this post of mine that I made elsewhere on the Forum yesterday :

If you watched "Lost" (Oceanic, the Island, etc. Lost), then you know the running joke was how often Ben Linus got beat up.

Is the running joke in this series how often Rush puts stress on his heart? Seriously. How many months have they been aboard Destiny? Less than a year?

So, you have this character who is nigh unto 50.

He's been the lead scientist on a frustrating project, he's haunted by his wife's death, hated by everyone when they arrive on Destiny, had a stress attack/caffeine withdrawal bout and fallen unconscious in the Gate Room, he's at odds with Young, had both Franklin and Riley injured while they were working directly for him, nearly collapsed from heat exhaustion in the desert, possibly subjected to the terrors on the jungle planet, stirred up trouble by planting a gun in Young's room, been beaten up by Young and left stranded on an inhospitable planet, captured and tortured by aliens, barely managed an escape, implanted with a tracking device, had the tracking device removed under perilous conditions, threatened at gunpoint by Young during a mutiny, endured the Chair, experienced the "tick terrors," subjected to torture in Telford's body, beaten up by Greer, suffocated, and resuscitated by CPR.

Did I leave anything out?

ONeill4tW
June 6th, 2010, 07:01 PM
I missed the caffeine/nicotine withdrawal attack one. Heh.

I would add the stress from "being shot at" part.

But yeah... O'Neill was also subjected to all sorts of stuff himself in SG-1 and I think Sheppard too. Its really not uncommon in a series to subject one of the lead characters to all sorts of torment. Heaven knows I do it all the time to my characters for my stories. Lol.

Though for Rush, I imagine its going to have some serious consequences one day for him. A person can only take so much before they give out. I just hope they dont kill him off when it does and if they do, they bring him back later like they did with Daniel Jackson. Speaking of like Jackson, Rush's goal seems to be finding a way to ascend. At least that is the reasons he gave for continuing on with his work after Gloria died. So what do you think? Will they start a storyline somewhere in the future where Rush explores a means to ascend?

kansaikimono
June 6th, 2010, 09:40 PM
Will they start a storyline somewhere in the future where Rush explores a means to ascend?

Hmm. I had the impression that Rush wants to ascend but believes that he really won't be able to do so when the time comes. His character isn't exactly the ascension type, either. He's ornery and unhappy and not actively committed to seeking enlightenment. If there is a script in the future that explores Rush's interest in ascension, I'm thinking it might involve Franklin. While Franklin was in the Chair, he might have reached the same mental state that Rodney did when he was forced to seek ascension. Only, in Franklin's case, I think he merged with Destiny.

One question to ask is whether the Ascended Ancients are territorial. Did they "exist" only in our part of the galaxy? Sure, they knew the Ori, but there seemed to be a sense of "this is our space and that's Ori space." So, should we expect to find ascended beings in Destiny's arena? Or maybe Destiny is being guarded by an ascended being and hence the indirect involvement the ship seems to provide the crew from time to time - in much the same way Morgana pretended to be a hologram in Atlantis.

It could be that Rush has in the back of his mind the idea that the Ascended Ancients might be found in the vicinity of Destiny, endeavoring to complete the work they left unfinished. Isn't their rule about not interferring only in regards to human development? Out where Destiny is, maybe the rules don't apply. Or at least they didn't until the Icarus survivors showed up.

If the writers don't pursue this part of the story they've initiated, I would be disappointed. You gotta' wonder what their purpose was in bringing it up in the first place, because it wasn't addressed in "Human." But when they do bring it up, there'd better be a good explanation as to why someone, especially Rush, wants to ascend. What's to be gotten out of it, because you can't come back and help anyone you know or apparently use your infinite knowledge of the universe in any practical way. What are the perks of being ascended?

ONeill4tW
June 6th, 2010, 10:09 PM
Hmm. I had the impression that Rush wants to ascend but believes that he really won't be able to do so when the time comes. His character isn't exactly the ascension type, either. He's ornery and unhappy and not actively committed to seeking enlightenment. If there is a script in the future that explores Rush's interest in ascension, I'm thinking it might involve Franklin. While Franklin was in the Chair, he might have reached the same mental state that Rodney did when he was forced to seek ascension. Only, in Franklin's case, I think he merged with Destiny.

I think he is committed but unlike Doctor Jackson and Rodney, he might be looking for another faster, easier or less dangerous way. From what I remember Jackson had to understand or become enlightened. Rodney simply had to will himself into the proper mental state but at a risk to himself. Both methods were slow going too.


One question to ask is whether the Ascended Ancients are territorial. Did they "exist" only in our part of the galaxy? Sure, they knew the Ori, but there seemed to be a sense of "this is our space and that's Ori space." So, should we expect to find ascended beings in Destiny's arena? Or maybe Destiny is being guarded by an ascended being and hence the indirect involvement the ship seems to provide the crew from time to time - in much the same way Morgana pretended to be a hologram in Atlantis.

I know I mentioned this somewhere on this forum, forgot which thread, but I do believe that there is an ascended helping them out indirectly through the ship which doesn't break the rule as you stated above using Morgana as an example.


It could be that Rush has in the back of his mind the idea that the Ascended Ancients might be found in the vicinity of Destiny, endeavoring to complete the work they left unfinished. Isn't their rule about not interferring only in regards to human development? Out where Destiny is, maybe the rules don't apply. Or at least they didn't until the Icarus survivors showed up.

The rule applies to any race I think.

I also believe that the Alterans, Lanteans and Ori are not the only ascended beings. There are others, which is even mentioned in SG-1 during the Anubis plot I think, and I would not be surprised if one went back to Destiny to finish its mission.


If the writers don't pursue this part of the story they've initiated, I would be disappointed. You gotta' wonder what their purpose was in bringing it up in the first place, because it wasn't addressed in "Human." But when they do bring it up, there'd better be a good explanation as to why someone, especially Rush, wants to ascend. What's to be gotten out of it, because you can't come back and help anyone you know or apparently use your infinite knowledge of the universe in any practical way. What are the perks of being ascended?

I would say that Rush might be thinking that he could get Gloria back. We know the pre-ascension Alterans were capable of Jesus like powers and ascension would be the next step toward ultimate power. The Ori certainly showed an ascended could pretty much do anything. Though whether bringing back his dead wife is even possible once ascended, I don't know. I would think the Others would prevent him from bringing her back though if it was possible.

Anyway I came to this theory from what was said in the show. She was the reason why he continued with the Icarus Project after her death. So perhaps she is the reason why he wants to ascend?

kansaikimono
June 6th, 2010, 11:13 PM
So perhaps she is the reason why he wants to ascend?

I wonder to what extent his grief and/or guilt plays a role in his desire to ascend. During the near-bedroom scene in which Mandy is demonstrating her affections for Rush, he breaks away with the explanation that his recent experience in the Chair has renewed all the emotions that he felt during and immediately after Gloria's death. And in the first episode, he's visibly upset when he looks at her photo. Yet, if he had not had the Chair sequence, would he have committed himself to Mandy for that moment?

What I'm getting at is that time helps to diminish the pain of a loved one, though you never get over it, especially if the death is of a parent, spouse, or child. Perhaps in the beginning he wanted to ascend so he could be with Gloria because he missed her so painfully. But now, what if his reasons for wanting to ascend have transformed a bit? Maybe it's his guilt for not having been there for her when she needed him and a desire to "put things right" that urge him on to seek ascension.

But if Gloria hasn't ascended, where is Rush expecting to find her? Do the Ancient Ascended exist in a non-linear time? If he succeeds in saving her, isn't this a case of the time traveler killing his grandfather? How can Rush continue a life in which he lives with Gloria, but never travels to Destiny which is where he discovers the secret to ascension which leads to saving Gloria? Or are we going to have to look at multiple time lines - which I think is the route the SG franchise has adopted. Oh, this is seriously confusing!

EllieVee
June 7th, 2010, 01:39 AM
I don't think Rush wants to ascend, in particular, having doubted his ability already; I think he wants to explore it. Sure, I think it's something to do with Gloria but what, I don't know. Originally, when I first saw Air, I thought it had to do with time travel, you know, saving her from her illness.

ladypredator
June 7th, 2010, 07:09 AM
I think Rush originally wanted to find out about Ascension so that Gloria could ascend. It would be a way to save her -- I see that as the root cause of his obsession with the Icarus Project. He was desperately trying to save Gloria. Once she died, he buried himself back into solving it because he felt like he failed her and finishing the project - finding the answers - is all he has left.

In "human" and "sabotage" we're starting to see slow recovery from his grief, he's starting to work through it, but it's not going to be a quick or easy process.

A lot of Rush's journey is going to relate to learning how to deal with his grief and how it changed him, in finding new reasons to live and maybe even love again. IMO, of course.

kudra
June 7th, 2010, 10:14 AM
I think Rush originally wanted to find out about Ascension so that Gloria could ascend. It would be a way to save her -- I see that as the root cause of his obsession with the Icarus Project. He was desperately trying to save Gloria. Once she died, he buried himself back into solving it because he felt like he failed her and finishing the project - finding the answers - is all he has left.


Yes, this was how I'd interpreted his interest in Ascension as well, especially as we know he took the project on and became obsessed with it whilst Gloria was still alive but already ill. It reminded me a bit of the film 'The Fountain' - where Hugh Jackmans character is a scientist searching for a cure for death to save his dying wife but his obsession with his work means he misses out on fully being with her in her last few months they had together, such a sad and beautiful film.

Hopefully they'll touch on this again in future epsiodes. I'd also like to see something more about who he was before her illness and death. From what 'Gloria' says to him at the end of 'Human' it seems that he himself feels it changed him significantly. Human didn't give us the real picture as the Rush reliving his time with her was a man who was already deeply wounded by losing her.

ladypredator
June 7th, 2010, 12:55 PM
Yes, this was how I'd interpreted his interest in Ascension as well, especially as we know he took the project on and became obsessed with it whilst Gloria was still alive but already ill. It reminded me a bit of the film 'The Fountain' - where Hugh Jackmans character is a scientist searching for a cure for death to save his dying wife but his obsession with his work means he misses out on fully being with her in her last few months they had together, such a sad and beautiful film.

Hopefully they'll touch on this again in future epsiodes. I'd also like to see something more about who he was before her illness and death. From what 'Gloria' says to him at the end of 'Human' it seems that he himself feels it changed him significantly. Human didn't give us the real picture as the Rush reliving his time with her was a man who was already deeply wounded by losing her.

I agree completely. I've never seen that movie, but your description of it sounds exactly like what Rush went through. You can tell from his conversation with her at the end of "Human" that he's never really come to terms with his inability to prevent her death. He feels like it is his fault because he failed to find a way to save her. I thought it was beautiful that he knows she would tell him that it wasn't his fault and that he shouldn't take it out on other people, but that he's not quite ready emotionally yet to get there.

I think Rush has this anger in him towards people like Young and many of the others that has to do with them being alive while Gloria is dead. It's a completely understandable and human reaction, and I think he feels it towards himself as well. Why should he or the others be alive when the woman he loved died so senselessly and painfully? Anger is a part of grief.

i'd bet that we're going to see him move very slowly through the stages of grief recovery. You start to see hints of that in "Sabotage" with the connection he makes with Mandy. And also the connection he makes with Chloe after their abduction. They haven't done more with his relationship with Chloe yet, but I think it made more of an impact than we've yet seen.

kansaikimono
June 7th, 2010, 10:23 PM
Early on, Young accused Rush of being a coward and Rush's response was to hang his head and keep his silence. At the time, my thoughts ran along the line of, "Maybe he is, or maybe he just thinks he is - we'll find out." But his diving through the gate in the jungle, his rescue of Chloe, his willingness to help find Scott, Chloe, and Greer by traveling through multiple gates, and his immediate response to the LA situation are several examples that clearly show that Rush is not a coward.

Now recall the first episode when he's welcoming the Senator. There's an embarassing moment when he's quite the sycophant with the Senator, just before they test the 9th chevron for the first time using Eli's results. Ya' just want to cringe! It's so true that we don't know much about the pre-Destiny Rush.

We all love fleshed out characters that grow and develop as we watch a series. Rush is definitely well-rounded. But the question is, do you believe that Rush has made a conscious effort to prove Young (or himself) wrong, or is Rush's recent heroic behavior quite natural and just never had an opportunity before to show itself? What is it about his character (internal) or environment (external) that feeds so well on this type of conflict? Has the social structure of the ship made him a better or more confident person?

ladypredator
June 8th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Early on, Young accused Rush of being a coward and Rush's response was to hang his head and keep his silence. At the time, my thoughts ran along the line of, "Maybe he is, or maybe he just thinks he is - we'll find out." But his diving through the gate in the jungle, his rescue of Chloe, his willingness to help find Scott, Chloe, and Greer by traveling through multiple gates, and his immediate response to the LA situation are several examples that clearly show that Rush is not a coward.

Now recall the first episode when he's welcoming the Senator. There's an embarassing moment when he's quite the sycophant with the Senator, just before they test the 9th chevron for the first time using Eli's results. Ya' just want to cringe! It's so true that we don't know much about the pre-Destiny Rush.

We all love fleshed out characters that grow and develop as we watch a series. Rush is definitely well-rounded. But the question is, do you believe that Rush has made a conscious effort to prove Young (or himself) wrong, or is Rush's recent heroic behavior quite natural and just never had an opportunity before to show itself? What is it about his character (internal) or environment (external) that feeds so well on this type of conflict? Has the social structure of the ship made him a better or more confident person?

Part of it is a response to the trauma and exigencies of the situation he's in, but I think the real answer is found in his conversation with Gloria at the end of "Human" - when she tells him he's not the man she loved and he says that that man died with her and she chides him for it. I think the Rush we see early on is a man so torn up by grief and pain that he's shut himself off from the world, become 'callous' as Gloria says, but as time and circumstances go on, he's put in a situation where he has to act and make some connections in order to survive and he's slowly starting to recover himself. And don't forget that even as early as "Darkness" he's willing to take his name out of the lottery and die with Destiny. He was telling Young the truth when he said that he felt that being on Destiny was his personal destiny.

He is becoming stronger person because he's being tested in extremely traumatic ways, but I think a lot of what we're seeing is the real Nicholas Rush - the man Gloria and Mandy both love(d).

ONeill4tW
June 14th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Speaking of "Human" am I the only one that feels that there was an outside force helping him discover the clue? The "dream" seemed more like there was something helping him and not his subconsciousness producing the events that would lead up to him discovering the clue like some dreams tend to do.

kansaikimono
June 14th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Speaking of "Human" am I the only one that feels that there was an outside force helping him discover the clue? The "dream" seemed more like there was something helping him and not his subconsciousness producing the events that would lead up to him discovering the clue like some dreams tend to do.

I want to agree that something selected that moment in his life to explore. It's the kind of life experience that any one of us might return to if we felt troubled and wanted to look inward for answers. Yet, it doesn't seem likely that Rush, with all that was happening aboard Destiny, was in any frame of mind to go self-exploring.

It's as though someone is troubled by Rush's behavior and wants to remind him of who he really is. If we're to believe that Rush, in reality, was not at Gloria's bedside when she died, then the dream sequence is what he wanted and needed for closure. If he wasn't at her bedside, it's likely he wasn't at her funeral, either.

Review the transcript of the death scene. The first time or two you hear it, it moves too fast to really sink in. But there are significant lines that give us some real insight into Rush. I'm not sure if they are the kind of ideas that Rush would have realized for himself if someone, or something, hadn't guided him in that direction, but Gloria tells him he is the one who chose the memory.

Another question is whether Rush had already figured out, subconsciously, that the DNA strand was the key to the code.

Perhaps the dream sequence is killing more than one bird: the key to the code, Rush's change in behavior, Rush's guilt, etc. Perhaps it's also a clue to the real reason Rush is so desperate to explore the innermost workings of Destiny in hopes of finding some Ascension clues, though I don't know why Destiny would provide them since she was built pre-Ascension.

Here's the deathbed scene:

GLORIA (quietly): You're not here for me.

RUSH: I've already been through this.

GLORIA: No you haven't. You were running.

RUSH: I was here.

GLORIA: You can't lie to yourself.

GLORIA: You chose this memory because it's one you'd rather just forget.

GLORIA: What you need is here now. That's why you're here. It's not for me. You just want your answer.

RUSH: I need an answer.

GLORIA (in a whisper): You're dying.

RUSH (looking down again): I know.

GLORIA: You'd rather die than fail? What have you become, Nicholas? The things you've done - it's not who you are; it's not you.

RUSH: I always had it in me ... to make the hard decisions. I have reasons ... good reasons.

GLORIA: To hurt people? Are you sure? You tell yourself my death gave you courage. In truth, it made you callous. You're not the man I loved.

RUSH (quietly, anguished): He died with you.

GLORIA: I was never your conscience, Nicholas. You still have one of your own. You just need to listen to it. Some people live their whole lives and never find what we had.

GLORIA (softly): Don't let what happened to me change you this way. It's nobody's fault.

RUSH (softly, tearfully): I know. I know that.

GLORIA: It's one stupid gene passed on to me by my mother, incapable of performing its one simple function - to repair damaged D.N.A.

GLORIA: That's it, isn't it? That's why you're here.

RUSH (in a whisper): Of course!

GLORIA: Go.

GLORIA: I know how much you loved me. (She fights back her own tears.) Stop taking it out on everyone else.

RUSH (tearfully): I haven't forgotten you, Gloria. I never will.

Artemis-Neith
June 14th, 2010, 11:53 PM
Speaking of "Human" am I the only one that feels that there was an outside force helping him discover the clue? The "dream" seemed more like there was something helping him and not his subconsciousness producing the events that would lead up to him discovering the clue like some dreams tend to do.

I had that impression also shortly, but thought it was maybe overinterpretet. If it is, I think we'll see of this again.


If we're to believe that Rush, in reality, was not at Gloria's bedside when she died, then the dream sequence is what he wanted and needed for closure. If he wasn't at her bedside, it's likely he wasn't at her funeral, either.

Review the transcript of the death scene. The first time or two you hear it, it moves too fast to really sink in. But there are significant lines that give us some real insight into Rush. I'm not sure if they are the kind of ideas that Rush would have realized for himself if someone, or something, hadn't guided him in that direction, but Gloria tells him he is the one who chose the memory.

Another question is whether Rush had already figured out, subconsciously, that the DNA strand was the key to the code.

Perhaps the dream sequence is killing more than one bird: the key to the code, Rush's change in behavior, Rush's guilt, etc. Perhaps it's also a clue to the real reason Rush is so desperate to explore the innermost workings of Destiny in hopes of finding some Ascension clues, though I don't know why Destiny would provide them since she was built pre-Ascension.

I didn't understand the words spoken between Rush and his wife in that way. I understood he was there at that very momment, but didn't spent much time with her the time before. Am I wrong?

All the small pieces make it more likely that the above mentioned thought was maybe not an overinterpretation, but a somebody who guided the whole situation. But the most important thing is that Rush's behaviour changed remakable after the chair, and clearly not as a result of interaction or some insight that he might have things messed up too much with Young, as I remember to read somewhere in the forum. Rush changed, but not because of Young.

Artemis-Neith
October 6th, 2010, 07:58 AM
Time to reactivate this thread again.

But first I want to sum up a few things from the second part of season 1.

(1) Rush was surly another person before his wife died, this is after "Human" indicated with the introduction of Amanda Perry in "Sabotage", another scientist, he worked with, back on earth. He behaves completely different the time she's around, than everything we've seen before. I guess what I've seen here, is the person a woman like Gloria would marry, much more likely than the grief-stricken, and on the surface callous man he's since "Air".

It looks like a lot of his behavior can be explained as a direct result of the fact that he never really handled the dead of his wife in an appropriate way.

(2) I wondered why he didn't show more impact of the alien abduction, like Chloe did after "Space". In "Pain" it was clear, that there was an impact, and that he's deeply afraid of those aliens, and what they've done to him.

In the same way he repressed the grief about his wife, he repressed the effects of what the aliens did to him, up to the point he has to face it again.
And I'm not sure whether the whole question is off the table. This seems to indicate the season 2.0 trailer.

(3) The last episodes of season 1 "Subversion", and Incursion I-II, and the first episode of season 2 "Intervention", he's most likely the first time personally confronted with torture, after he is captured from the LA, while trying to play detective, which was, imo, quite silly for somebody who's normally quite intelligent.

And now what we've seen in "Aftermath" is unavoidable the aftereffect of that torture, he's again, and not surprisingly, not able to handle alone.

I think that this episode is called "Aftermath" for some reasons. One of this reasons seems to be the last point (3) I mentioned.

Everything which happened in this episode is a direct result of his misreading the data Destiny gave him about the planet, because he's too tiered to give full attention to the informations he has in front of him. Therefore the crew not only lost a beloved member (:(), but also the last shuttle they had at this point, not to mention the effects all of this will have for future episodes.

One could think, ok, that's Rush, he's simply back to his old self. All of this could have avoided, if he had said that he's found the bridge. He should have report that to Young.

Yes, he should have, I think, it was clearly a mistake not to do so. But one of the reasons he maybe didn't tell anyone, or at least not Young, could be that he felt betrayed from him. From Rush's point of view Young had the chance to disconnect the stones in time, so that all of this could have been avoided, including the LA boarding Destiny, but he didn't do for some reasons he don't know exactly, or in fact he didn't believe in (breaking Telford's brainwashing).

mi_guard
October 7th, 2010, 02:05 AM
Artemis: nice round up.

Did you also have the impression that Rush was feeling more and more unconfortable when Young asked him repeatedly during the episode "Where have YOU been?". I have the impression that Young starts to think that Rush is hiding something. Rush must have realized this distrust.

Artemis-Neith
October 7th, 2010, 03:11 AM
Artemis: nice round up.

Did you also have the impression that Rush was feeling more and more unconfortable when Young asked him repeatedly during the episode "Where have YOU been?". I have the impression that Young starts to think that Rush is hiding something. Rush must have realized this distrust.

I think you're right. Young is not an idiot, and Rush know this.

Cairistiona
October 7th, 2010, 06:35 AM
I agree, Young seems to suspect something.
I think at the end of the ep Rush realizes that his decisions can lead to harm or even death for other people. This process started when he had to decide how to deal wit the LA in 'Intervention'. 'A necessary sacrifice' is easy to say, but then he realizes that this would affect people he knows and maybe likes a little bit. I think up to this point he was more a scientist doing calculations and theoretical things and now there are people affected by the result of his calculations.

kudra
October 7th, 2010, 10:59 AM
I agree, Young seems to suspect something.
I think at the end of the ep Rush realizes that his decisions can lead to harm or even death for other people. This process started when he had to decide how to deal wit the LA in 'Intervention'. 'A necessary sacrifice' is easy to say, but then he realizes that this would affect people he knows and maybe likes a little bit. I think up to this point he was more a scientist doing calculations and theoretical things and now there are people affected by the result of his calculations.

Yes I'd agree, I don't think he'll easily brush off his mistake in Aftermath. I can't really defend the hiding the bridge thing but I do think his misreading of the data and descision to take a gamble on the planet was more down to exhaustion and desperation over the food situation than a callous disregard for the lives of the crew. His relief when he thought they had made it through safely was very clear and I don't think it was only the shuttle he was concerned about.

It'll be interesting to see where they go with him in Season 2, will he form greater and greater attachments to the crew as time goes on and so be less able to make the hard choices for the 'greater good'? Or will he be ostracised once they figure out he cracked the code and kept it secret and become more of an outright antagonist? Personally I hope they don't go too far one way or the other as I love how well RC plays the contradictions within Rush. Of course given the fact he's started talking to dead people maybe they'll take him the crazy route, I must admit part of me hopes Gloria and Franklin are just hallucinations because watching RC playing Rush go all 'Beautiful Mind' would be fun.

mi_guard
October 9th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Here a comment by Robert Carlyle about Rush on what happened in ep 2:

http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/2460/index.html

ps. this time I had more difficulties understanding parts of what he says due to his accent :confused::o

Artemis-Neith
October 10th, 2010, 02:23 AM
Here a comment by Robert Carlyle about Rush on what happened in ep 2:

http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/2460/index.html

ps. this time I had more difficulties understanding parts of what he says due to his accent :confused::o

Same here. What did he say in the very last sentence? I really tried hard to get it but failed more than once. :(

mi_guard
October 10th, 2010, 09:27 AM
Same here. What did he say in the very last sentence? I really tried hard to get it but failed more than once. :(

Okay, I tried to write down what I understand of what he says. It would be following

Quote.
There is a lot of times I think Rush’s put in difficult situations because what he does, the action he takes, is for the greater good in his opinion. But because of this someone dies. So he is somewhat responsible but if he had to put him according? the law, I think in typical Rush’s fashion........(?)over
Unquote

can anybody help us out here? what does he exactly say? :(

morbosfist
October 10th, 2010, 12:44 PM
Paraphrased:

"If he was put in a court of law, I think, in typical Rush fashion, he'd be able to talk his way out of it."

Artemis-Neith
October 10th, 2010, 02:08 PM
Paraphrased:

"If he was put in a court of law, I think, in typical Rush fashion, he'd be able to talk his way out of it."

Yeah, this last sentence was exactly the part I didn't understand. Now it's clear. Thank you.

mi_guard
October 10th, 2010, 03:20 PM
Yeah, this last sentence was exactly the part I didn't understand. Now it's clear. Thank you.

Same for me - thank you very much morbosfist - you are from Scotland? :)

morbosfist
October 10th, 2010, 05:24 PM
No, I just listened closely. Took a couple repeats, but I got it.

mi_guard
October 13th, 2010, 08:08 AM
Rush continues to keep the bridge a secret.

Young: "Where are you going?" Rush: "to the toilet"
Young: "Where have you been so long?" Rush: "canteen"
Young: "We need Rush in the control room NOW" Scott: "Rush is not here" Young: "Where is he?" "No idea".
Now here I would like to hear Rush's explanation to Young when he'll ask him where he has been.

Wondering how long Rush will be able to manage this situation - his stress level is increasing constantly. Who knows which will be the next mistake he'll do.

Also wondering how long it will take to Young to ask Eli to follow him with a kino and Rush's reaction when he'll find out.

Cairistiona
October 13th, 2010, 08:35 AM
I just had an imagination of Rush kicking the kino around like a football :o

Artemis-Neith
January 2nd, 2015, 04:16 AM
I'm aware threads like this one are very much dead in between, cos nobody is any longer interested in those topics, but while commenting (http://simplystoriesforfun.tumblr.com/post/106643651415/thoughts-about-the-3-chapter-of-the-end-of) something in a fic I'm currently writing (and translating into English) I stumbled again over the famous "Chair" of Destiny.

The passage below is what I'd like to talk about:

Eli is a very different guy. He’s a genius, everything comes easy to him, he’s all about fun, and being friends with people. Rush is quite the opposite: Rush is a borderline genius, he’s extremely intelligent, but simply not a genius. He had to earn all he knows, and all his abilities by hard work, often going to his own limits, we saw a glimpse of that in “Human”, where he nearly killed himself to solve the problem with the master code during the simulation he put himself in with the help of Brody. Because he knew, other than Young, that it is not possible to crack the highly evolved cryptography Destiny is using to protect itself, just by sitting around and give some numbers a try, as Young had suggested Rush to do before. So he understood the only way is to use the chair, and to do so he needs to know how to use it without killing himself for nothing. That’s why he was looking for a volunteer, and that’s why he directly took the readings from Destiny’s computer while Franklin was still sitting in that chair, because if he’d not done that, Franklin’s sacrifice would have been in vain (Rush promised in Air II to Chloe he’d not let people die in vain). So, as problematic as it was, what he did with Franklin, by doing nothing as Young had command him, they’d never find a way to get the master code. That’s what Young never understood, and Eli is not willing to go for: to gain a goal it is sometimes necessary to take risks. And Rush takes those risks, not only on other people but also on himself.
And there’s a small side note about something I realised by rereading an article (http://space.io9.com/cryptography-embedded-in-stargate-universe-is-a-lesson-1634445198) by Mika McKinnon about her work in SGU, and especially on the episode “Human.” At some point she mentioned that to crack a code like Destiny's you can spend your lifetime and all computers on earth, or you can torture the person who knows the code. And Rush did actually something in between. On the one hand he used all techniques he could think about, and got always hints he didn’t understand, and in the end he unconsciously blackmailed Destiny, who just told him what he was never seeing during the whole episode. Destiny actually gave him the code to not let him die in the process.
I wouldn't go that far to say he did that deliberately (he’s not a cold calculating bastard all the time for me), because actually the whole situation was so stressful for him that he simply cracked in the end, and that made Destiny to give in.

I'll leave this here, just for the unlikely possibility someone may be interested.

pakar
January 2nd, 2015, 11:23 AM
I think Rusch was the only man on board who really understood their situation: there was not any chance to return home, that possibility simply didn't exist .So the only way was to find a way to survive in the ship so they had to break the master code.All the others were living in their dreams not reality.

Artemis-Neith
January 2nd, 2015, 02:23 PM
You might be right with that. And I think, he never lied about that, but said it plain and simple relatively early in the beginning. Especially Young went into complete denial with the fact that Rush could be right, and that private war he started with Rush in the moment he accused him to make thinks up, was a really bad idea of him. But usually people listen to those who tell things people want to hear, not those they don't want to know.
The master code was the key, and to get it, they had to do more than just to sit around. Did you read the article, btw?

pakar
January 3rd, 2015, 05:32 AM
Yes i read it.
BTW i don't think that Rusch was ever a calculating "bastard" as many people think , I think that being in an extreme situation he had the dillemma that anyone in such a situation has: act with values and principles or do what is necessarry even if it is not ethical? he clearly choose the second but no one can accuse him if he has never been in such a situation himself.

Artemis-Neith
January 3rd, 2015, 08:52 AM
Oh, I didn't meant my article, I thought about the article of Mika McKinnon. Sorry for being not clear enough. McKinnon's article is really good, I think.
Well, I guess Rush had his moments where he was very cold and calculating. But you are also right with what you said. I also think he made a lot of the things he did, because they had to be done to make sure all of them would survive.

rushy
January 7th, 2015, 11:13 AM
I think Rush was actually very fond of his companions, in a Dr. Cox kind of way. He seemed extremely curious, which can be interpreted as an escape from his past, but I always thought it was just a natural desire to understand the universe better. He was curious to a fault and got irritated when the others didn't have the "the sky's the limit" thinking. And yet, he was also very pragmatic and took things matter-of-factly(as shown by his willingness to frame Col. Young, out of no personal grudge), hoping, but never uselessly dreaming.

Artemis-Neith
January 7th, 2015, 12:59 PM
Yeah, I think you're right he did the framing thing without a personal interest, it was just to get what he thought would be necessary to reach the next step to get control of the ship. But, unfortunately Young took this very personal and tried to kill him, something Rush surely didn't expected.
If Rush was ever the big manipulator a lot of people thought he was, he'd see this coming, but he didn't. Though, I think he was more careful later for a while at least until Young made the next mistake, then everything went down the hill again. Anyway, Young was never innocent if it comes to their bad relationship. He set e.g. very early on deliberately a collision course with Rush. Sometimes I think, Young actually never really learned to handle someone who's not one of his soldiers.

CarrieAnn
January 11th, 2015, 02:28 AM
I have only seen about 6 episodes but when Rush cried over that photo of his dead wife/girlfriend I thought that he has stopped caring about other people. If he has lost the love of his life, he's broken and may even have a deathwish. So he doesn't even care what happens to him or to other people, he's just 'getting by.'

I thought when he was annoying Greer in that episode, can't remember which one it was, he MUST have a deathwish. He seemed to be provoking the most violent person on the ship, for no reason otherwise.

Artemis-Neith
January 11th, 2015, 05:20 AM
I have only seen about 6 episodes but when Rush cried over that photo of his dead wife/girlfriend I thought that he has stopped caring about other people. If he has lost the love of his life, he's broken and may even have a deathwish. So he doesn't even care what happens to him or to other people, he's just 'getting by.'

I thought when he was annoying Greer in that episode, can't remember which one it was, he MUST have a deathwish. He seemed to be provoking the most violent person on the ship, for no reason otherwise.

This is an important point that explains a lot of his behavior, but I don't want to give too much away, this thread is very spoilery, but I guess you're aware of it.

CarrieAnn
January 11th, 2015, 06:38 AM
No, I haven't read most of this thread. I dip in and out of shows and forums ;)

Marty McFly
August 12th, 2016, 09:28 AM
Dr. Rush's character is honest, I think. Brutally honest because he talks about things that are uncomfortable and even terrible, but still the truth.
The only times he is dishonest is when he omits the truth. When he keeps secrets or he does not reveal what he knows. I don't call that lying or not being honest. Everyone is entitled to their own secrets, however the bridge secret was a big one cause he actually USED it to move things and didn't say how... still I totally understand him for the secret because Young proved to be callous about Rush's life and safety too many times and also, he was worried about the ship's safety with all the other people trampling the bridge like a herd of elephants.

Artemis-Neith
August 13th, 2016, 09:37 AM
Dr. Rush's character is honest, I think. Brutally honest because he talks about things that are uncomfortable and even terrible, but still the truth.
The only times he is dishonest is when he omits the truth. When he keeps secrets or he does not reveal what he knows. I don't call that lying or not being honest. Everyone is entitled to their own secrets, however the bridge secret was a big one cause he actually USED it to move things and didn't say how... still I totally understand him for the secret because Young proved to be callous about Rush's life and safety too many times and also, he was worried about the ship's safety with all the other people trampling the bridge like a herd of elephants.

Yes, this ^^^ and the possibility that the LA folks could escape and conquer the ship another time is also not completely impossible. You may remember the nightmare Rush had right before he went to the control room. ;)

Marty McFly
August 30th, 2016, 10:34 AM
Yeah. Also the episode is named "aftermath" and his nightmare was first scene. Writers obviously we're trying to explain his behavior without saying it outright.
I really love Rush's character, especially after twin destiny where I love imagining him crying over Eli and all his companions after hearing that only Telford survived. Looking at Eli's documentary pictures hanging there... on the dying destiny... until he decided to get into the shuttle... he had no idea that they landed on another planet. The other Rush died thinking that he failed to save the crew. It's so sad.
I really want a season 3. I know the actor is busy doing once upon a time right now, but I wish SGU would come back to TV.

Artemis-Neith
August 30th, 2016, 12:44 PM
Yes, people matter to Rush, he shows that just in a less obvious way than the other folks. To keep all of them safe he would sacrifice a single man, though. Young for one thing would sacrifice all of them to rescue one man by doing something desperate.

Btw, I've seen your comment on AO3 about The End of Silence and give you an answer, now. :)