PDA

View Full Version : FTL Visibility



songar87
May 8th, 2010, 08:43 PM
Does anyone else find it strange that we can see everything around the ship (i.e. the galaxy behind it) while it is in FTL? Granted, they did state that it is different than the hyperdrive used in the rest of the franchise, but it still seems weird...

magictrick
May 8th, 2010, 08:45 PM
Not weird, its sci-fi :)

Since it does operate differently, there's no real surprise there.

Stranded
May 8th, 2010, 08:51 PM
Well, if you're travelling 10 kmph (or miles per hour for you US folks) away from a town, and 110 kmph away from the town... you can still see it if you look in the rear-vision mirror, right? I suppose it's something like that.

These links are worth reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light
http://physics.suite101.com/article.cfm/traveling_at_the_speed_of_light
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=34145

Though of course this is a Sci-Fi show so while they make it seem slightly believable, it's going to break a few scientific "laws" when it needs to, if it makes the show better. I'd rather see the galaxies, as it's something I as a viewer am interested in seeing.

songar87
May 9th, 2010, 02:32 PM
Speaking of believable, given the shorter range mentioned for the 'more primitave' gates, doesn't it seem like the Destiny was already out of range of the gate network, and should have been unable to connect for Eli, Chloe and Scott? (based on how far away the ship looked in the shots with the blue galaxy in the background)

Avenger
May 9th, 2010, 03:01 PM
Not necessarily, no. Destiny has tended to stop between solar systems with multiple gates in range, so the distance they can cover isn't insignificant. Plus, the FTL drive wasn't working as efficiently as it could be due to age and a lack of power reserves. Eli said that it the second day that the address showed up on the remote, so the ship wasn't in FTL all that long.

Puddle-Jumper
May 9th, 2010, 03:04 PM
When Destiny is in FTL it looks really pretty :)

escyos
May 9th, 2010, 03:05 PM
Well, if you're travelling 10 kmph (or miles per hour for you US folks) away from a town, and 110 kmph away from the town... you can still see it if you look in the rear-vision mirror, right? I suppose it's something like that.

These links are worth reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light
http://physics.suite101.com/article.cfm/traveling_at_the_speed_of_light
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=34145

Though of course this is a Sci-Fi show so while they make it seem slightly believable, it's going to break a few scientific "laws" when it needs to, if it makes the show better. I'd rather see the galaxies, as it's something I as a viewer am interested in seeing.

grrrrr could people PLEASE stop referenciong wikipedia!!!

anyway, FTL is NOT is subspace, its in normal space so it stands to reason we can still see things

Mike.
May 9th, 2010, 03:35 PM
grrrrr could people PLEASE stop referenciong wikipedia!!!

No one is going to explain complex topics that require at least 2000 or more words in a forum post, they'll just link to a wiki or some other online resource. Deal with it. I really don't see the reason for this vendetta you have against wikipedia.

escyos
May 9th, 2010, 03:41 PM
No one is going to explain complex topics that require at least 2000 or more words in a forum post, they'll just link to a wiki or some other online resource. Deal with it. I really don't see the reason for this vendetta you have against wikipedia.

I believe Dr Cox summed it up appropriately "The person who wrote that article also authored the Battlestar Galactica fanpage"

I would prefer to read something from a credbile site then the pages written by a 12 year old boy.

Mike.
May 9th, 2010, 03:59 PM
I believe Dr Cox summed it up appropriately "The person who wrote that article also authored the Battlestar Galactica fanpage"

I would prefer to read something from a credbile site then the pages written by a 12 year old boy.

I can't believe this, you're saying that people with experience in scientific fields can't be sci-fi fans. Completely illogical.

Read the references at the bottom of the article if you don't trust the summary aka the article. There's absolutely no original content on wikipedia, everything is taken from scientific publications, news sources, etc. depending on the topic. "12 year old boy" <- [citation needed].

If you're going to say that wikipedia is wrong you'll first have to prove that the sources the articles are based on are wrong.

Demoniser
May 9th, 2010, 04:13 PM
I can't believe this, you're saying that people with experience in scientific fields can't be sci-fi fans. Completely illogical.

Read the references at the bottom of the article if you don't trust the summary aka the article. There's absolutely no original content on wikipedia, everything is taken from scientific publications, news sources, etc. depending on the topic. "12 year old boy" <- [citation needed].

If you're going to say that wikipedia is wrong you'll first have to prove that the sources the articles are based on are wrong.

The fact that wikipedia can be edited by anyone makes it an unreliable source, the theories and subject matter might be taken from creditable sources but the articles themselves are still produced by god knows who which is where the credibility of any article on there falls into an endless pit of fail.

No sane person would reference wikipedia for any meaningful paper or study, they'd be laughed out of the room.

That being said, this is a sci fi fan forum so yeah wikipedia will do fine for the most part for skimming the facts so wikipedia vendettas are a bit silly here also.

Mike.
May 9th, 2010, 04:29 PM
Every other statement has a small link [1234...] that sends you to the original source. There's not a lot of room for errors to seep through.


That being said, this is a sci fi fan forum so yeah wikipedia will do fine for the most part for skimming the facts so wikipedia vendettas are a bit silly here also.

Indeed.

escyos
May 9th, 2010, 04:33 PM
it is my personal opinion that wikipedia is not something that any person who wants a valid argument should use. its unrealiable due to the simple fact that anyone can edit it.

chances are there is no way that the person who wrote those articles is an expert on those topics and as you said they have references to other articles but many people DONT check those references. if i went onto wikipedia and edited a page, it does not make me an expert even if i read about said topic from another site.

sure people can copy and paste from other sources but if you take things out of context they can lose their meaning.

all i ask is that people search for more CREDIBLE sources instead of wikipedia. referncing wikipedia is LAZY.

back on topic.....FTL see stuff

GoodSmeagol
May 9th, 2010, 04:56 PM
Yes but this is Sci-Fi not scientific.
Wiki is ALWAYS a good starting point.
However, ALWAYS look for a secondary source if it REALLY matters to be 100% accurate.
When discussing sci-fi, somewhat accurate is just fine by me.

When the ship is INSIDE a glalaxy, I do not recall seeing lots of stars and such.
But imagine in the void, the stars are sooo far away still that even at FTL speeds you can see.
Also, if you have ever heard of "red shifting" a way to calculate the speed stars are expanding away from us.
Blue shift is the other end of the spectrum, and objects moving closer to us will appear slightly more blue.
*some one said the blue galaxy, I have no clue if TPTB had the blue shift in mind, I thought it was itneresting.
Of course blue shift is a hypothetical theory as obviously no star is coming towards us at light speed.

P-90_177
May 9th, 2010, 05:01 PM
regardless of wikipedia or not i've seen no evidence so far to suggest that Destiny's FTL is used within normal space. All that's been said is that it isn't hyperdrive, which could mean anything.

pipi
May 9th, 2010, 05:06 PM
It's just for the viewers :). In all reality if you were viewing it from inside the SGU world in normal space you wouldn't be able to see it while it's in FTL.

Mike.
May 9th, 2010, 05:40 PM
I find that view incredibly simplistic and closed-minded. However it is your opinion and you are entitled to it (even though you refuse to acknowledge arguments). However it does not give you the right to claim that other people are wrong because you do not agree with them. You may keep this opinion for your own reasoning, but when engaging other people you have to prove your point instead of referencing your imaginary values.

/this is not a flame :)


it is my personal opinion that wikipedia is not something that any person who wants a valid argument should use.

Sure, but you can't say that I or anyone else is wrong when only citing your personal opinion.


its unrealiable due to the simple fact that anyone can edit it.
That doesn't mean that everyone actually edits it.
Any unreferenced information or vandalism is quickly reverted by the community. This is a fact.



chances are there is no way that the person who wrote those articles is an expert on those topics.

Believe it or not people like to spread knowledge, including the experts, and there's a lot more of them than you might think. The people writing those articles seem to know what they are talking about, and add references from credible sources.

For basic physics any physics teacher is "an expert". And there's a lot of them. As the information becomes more complex there are university teachers, researchers (still there's a lot of them). Some of them, somewhere, will have too much free time and contribute to a wiki. The chances are actually very high.



and as you said they have references to other articles but many people DONT check those references.

Actually they do. A least after the initial edit is made.



if i went onto wikipedia and edited a page, it does not make me an expert even if i read about said topic from another site.

Define "expert". If you know something about a particular field from a site that is considered credible then yes, you are an "expert" in that very narrow subject.

To put it another way, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make a summary of a text.




sure people can copy and paste from other sources but if you take things out of context they can lose their meaning.

Actually nothing is copy/pasted verbatim as that would be against copyright laws. You should know this. There's no problem with out-of-context material because the basic format of an encyclopedia article requires a "big picture" outlook.



all i ask is that people search for more CREDIBLE sources instead of wikipedia.

Would pasting the tens/hundreds of references at the bottom of the article instead satisfy you?



referncing wikipedia is LAZY.
You seriously can't expect people to produce paper quality material for a sci-fi discussion board, are you ? That would be insane.



back on topic.....FTL see stuff

Yup, I will refrain from continuing on this point because it's seriously derailing the topic.




When the ship is INSIDE a glalaxy, I do not recall seeing lots of stars and such.
But imagine in the void, the stars are sooo far away still that even at FTL speeds you can see.
Also, if you have ever heard of "red shifting" a way to calculate the speed stars are expanding away from us.
Blue shift is the other end of the spectrum, and objects moving closer to us will appear slightly more blue.
*some one said the blue galaxy, I have no clue if TPTB had the blue shift in mind, I thought it was itneresting.
Of course blue shift is a hypothetical theory as obviously no star is coming towards us at light speed.

The Andromeda galaxy is actually heading towards us so it is actually blue-shifted.


regardless of wikipedia or not i've seen no evidence so far to suggest that Destiny's FTL is used within normal space. All that's been said is that it isn't hyperdrive, which could mean anything.

In my opinion it's star trek style warp. The bubble around the ship + normal space outside tells the whole story.

escyos
May 9th, 2010, 06:07 PM
I find that view incredibly simplistic and closed-minded. However it is your opinion and you are entitled to it (even though you refuse to acknowledge arguments). However it does not give you the right to claim that other people are wrong because you do not agree with them. You may keep this opinion for your own reasoning, but when engaging other people you have to prove your point instead of referencing your imaginary values.

You seriously can't expect people to produce paper quality material for a sci-fi discussion board, are you ? That would be insane.
.

i was thinking maybe people could use other sources...all i see it wikipedia this, wikipedia that.....there is more out there

Krazeh
May 9th, 2010, 06:39 PM
i was thinking maybe people could use other sources...all i see it wikipedia this, wikipedia that.....there is more out there

Yes there are, and a good wikipedia article will reference plenty of them so why not use it?

Phenom
May 9th, 2010, 06:55 PM
I have to laugh at those who think Wikipedia is not good enough to be a source for a Stargate forum thread about a hypothetical Faster than Light drive.

Avenger
May 9th, 2010, 07:06 PM
i was thinking maybe people could use other sources...all i see it wikipedia this, wikipedia that.....there is more out there

Like what, exactly? We're talking about a science fiction TV show and none existent, made up technology here. Everything is purely speculative as is. Citing sources other than wikipedia isn't going to change this. Never mind that wiki is a good for basic information and everything relevant in the articles is foot noted with sources.

Phenom
May 9th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Like what, exactly? We're talking about a science fiction TV show and none existent, made up technology here. Everything is purely speculative as is. Citing sources other than wikipedia isn't going to change this. Never mind that wiki is a good for basic information and everything relevant in the articles is foot noted with sources.

I think escyos probably had a bad Wikipedia experience as a kid.

Kayzersoze
May 9th, 2010, 08:17 PM
I can't remember the official explanation of how Destiny's FTL differs from the FTL travel of SG-1 and Atlantis, but it sure looks nice. Also sounds nice with the whole whisps of ... whatever drifting over the ship as it flies through ... nothing.

My question is: Is it just one speed? Cos by the looks of it, they were a fair freakin ways distant from the galaxy they just left. Like ... years distant if it takes them as long as it does to get between stars while within a galaxy. Tj's kid would be crawling by now for sure?

escyos
May 9th, 2010, 08:19 PM
Like what, exactly? We're talking about a science fiction TV show and none existent, made up technology here. Everything is purely speculative as is. Citing sources other than wikipedia isn't going to change this. Never mind that wiki is a good for basic information and everything relevant in the articles is foot noted with sources.

university publications, perhaps? science fiction tv or not, it uses REAL science. wikipedia is a JOKE! I just went to a page i "edited" whilst drunk and guess what, it had stayed that way for almost a month before someone changed it back.......fantastic source of info they have there

Avenger
May 9th, 2010, 11:43 PM
University papers on none existent technology that's made up for a TV show? Are you freaking kidding me? I'm sure your supposed drunk edit of some random page lacks any sources and it labeled with that famous "needs citation" text anyway. Never mind that it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. Check the sources in the posted links and make up your mind on whether they're legitimate or not. Don't just assume that because it's wiki that the information is wrong.

escyos
May 10th, 2010, 03:27 AM
University papers on none existent technology that's made up for a TV show? Are you freaking kidding me? I'm sure your supposed drunk edit of some random page lacks any sources and it labeled with that famous "needs citation" text anyway. Never mind that it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. Check the sources in the posted links and make up your mind on whether they're legitimate or not. Don't just assume that because it's wiki that the information is wrong.

no, research papers on the physics behind much of the technology. regardless of my edit lackign sources...some people would read that and believe it. its as simple as that. and im DONE talking about this, if you people wont listent to reason then im done.

The Swarm
May 10th, 2010, 03:45 AM
Ok, how did this thread got derailed from FTL to wikipedia articles?
Can we just stay on topic please?

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 10th, 2010, 05:06 AM
Actually, I'm more interested in the fact that the ship doesn't have to spend an equal amount of time decelerating from FTL given that they are moving through normal space. With the talk of relative velocities in "Light" you'd think they would be consistent about that particular fact. Once the ship reaches a crusing speed it will remain at that speed until acted upon by another force (like the gravity of a sun or galaxy). Hence, just turning off the FTL drive shouldn't cause the ship to slow down, at all.

thekillman
May 10th, 2010, 05:27 AM
Hence, just turning off the FTL drive shouldn't cause the ship to slow down, at all.

we don't know. hyperdrives conserve momentum.

pipi
May 10th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Actually, I'm more interested in the fact that the ship doesn't have to spend an equal amount of time decelerating from FTL given that they are moving through normal space. With the talk of relative velocities in "Light" you'd think they would be consistent about that particular fact. Once the ship reaches a crusing speed it will remain at that speed until acted upon by another force (like the gravity of a sun or galaxy). Hence, just turning off the FTL drive shouldn't cause the ship to slow down, at all.

You're basing your analysis on normal space travel with Earth science like Newton's law. There are many different types of FTL drives, and some don't use normal spacetime. Energy is required to sustain FTL mode to get from A to B. If there was such a thing as cruising speed, then all they need to do is fire up the FTL drive for 1s and then switch it to standby for the ship to float at FTL speed, but it doesn't work that way since power is constantly deplete throughout the journey. If they had the FTL drive on all the time then the ship would be constantly accelerating to infinity and would require the same amount of decelerating to inifinity to stop. Too complicated, I'll just go with newton's law does not apply in FTL. :)

beafly
May 10th, 2010, 11:01 AM
I have to laugh at those who think Wikipedia is not good enough to be a source for a Stargate forum thread about a hypothetical Faster than Light drive.

Bingo.

Wouldn't doppler? Red-shift? Some sort of strange light issues be experienced when traveling between galaxies at a speed greater than c?

For starters, I'd think that no light from behind you would ever reach you, so everything to the rear of Destiny would be as dark as you can possibly imagine?

What would happen to light coming directly at you? Light coming from an angle?

pipi
May 10th, 2010, 06:13 PM
What would happen to light coming directly at you? Light coming from an angle?

This has been scientifically theorised to a degree. Star Wars hyperdrive is an accurate depiction of going into FTL as light hits the windscreen. Something about light moving into the center and then a quick flash of white.

rlr149
May 11th, 2010, 03:47 PM
Check the sources in the posted links and make up your mind on whether they're legitimate or not. Don't just assume that because it's wiki that the information is wrong.as the poster SHOULD have checked the sources for the linked wiki article................. they could have posted those source links instead! would make me more inclined to read them, rather than read a wiki, then check its sources because the poster of the link couldn't be bothered................. or didn't check them at all!! which is most likely.
why the hell are we supposed to check your(or whoever's) 'research'(and i use that term loosly) twice!!

either way, 'bloke down the pub' said what we see on SGU is what actually happens, and he is a rocket scientist so he knows............... its the red lion pub near my house so go check that if you want? can't be bothered?............. welcome to our world.;)

nx01a
May 13th, 2010, 01:05 AM
It looked dang cool and I'd love to see it more often, like Destiny flying by/through a cool nebula. Generic starfields gets old.
It's non-hyperdrive travel. Don't question it. ;)

droid327
May 13th, 2010, 01:45 AM
Bingo.

Wouldn't doppler? Red-shift? Some sort of strange light issues be experienced when traveling between galaxies at a speed greater than c?

For starters, I'd think that no light from behind you would ever reach you, so everything to the rear of Destiny would be as dark as you can possibly imagine?

What would happen to light coming directly at you? Light coming from an angle?

Thats one of the funny things about special relativity, though...no matter how fast you're moving, an object traveling at the speed of light will always appear to be moving at the speed of light. Its the classic "flashlight on a train traveling at c" thought experiment. Doppler shift will happen, and light from behind might get redshifted out of the visible spectrum, but you'll never just get no light of any wavelength.

And if FTL bends normal space-time (unlike hyperspace, which creates an extra-spacetime conduit), then light entering the FTL bubble would be essentially lensed, and to an observer within the bubble, the galaxies may appear closer than they actually are, due to the speed of light increasing as the photons cross the barrier and the value of c changes locally.

thekillman
May 13th, 2010, 02:50 AM
what you'd see in real FTL would be a big blue light in the front and a big red light in the back. however it would probably all be blurry. whatever the exact color in the front and back, these are small lights and the surroundings will be black.

Flibby
May 14th, 2010, 09:18 PM
Did we ever actually see the galaxy they're leaving from FTL?

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Did we ever actually see the galaxy they're leaving from FTL?

yes and saw the new one all in the same ep. "sabotage"