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Tuvok
May 8th, 2010, 08:00 PM
I enjoyed this episode immensely . The most surprising thing about this episode was the SGC most brilliant expert on FTL is someone we never heard of before.

It would have been lazy writing to just to shove Mckay or Carter as the best and the brightest into the slot. But this way it shows that while they are definitely brilliant in their fields. I found that there are others better then them in different fields more realistic.

By the by I'm just assuming but was McKay an expert on Atlantis tech and engineering. Does the fact that Destiny is a prototype older then Pegusus tech make his expertise moot or not?

A fridge brilliance moment that got me . Was while Perry was the best in her field , one due to her disability she could not serve out on the field so she never got to be at the brunt of the action. And two despite being the best of the best took weeks to fix instead of the usual couple of hours.

SGU may be a touch slow, but none the less a touch more realistic.

:P

Captain Obvious
May 8th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I think the disability was the main reason she was never considered for other duties. I totally saw it as a "Stephen Hawking" type situation.

Pharaoh Atem
May 8th, 2010, 08:18 PM
mckay and carter wouldn't have added anything to the story. having mandy in the ep made thng much interesting

Werewolfhero
May 8th, 2010, 08:21 PM
Was kinda strange that neither Mckay or Carter were not called to assist. Mckay's had experience with Alteran tech such as Atlantis, a few ancient warships, etc. While Carter's worked with hyperdrive tech, and even worked directly with asgard such as Thor. So it was abit strange that their experience wasn't even drawn on. Who knows they might've been able to rig the old ftl to work more efficiently like a hyperdrive.

mparsons1981
May 8th, 2010, 08:24 PM
See carter is an overall genius, but daft as it sounds that doesn't mean she is necessarily a specialist at any field in the lvl's of 'best at.' I also always found it slighty silly how mckay could always find an answer for anything!

General Jumper One
May 8th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Rush just wanted to give Perry a chance to walk and stuff

spinny magee
May 8th, 2010, 10:24 PM
Frankly I think Mckay would of ended up blowing up the galaxy they were heading to if he was brought in....

And carter is in command of a ship and isn't that much of a FTL expert, maybe hyperdrive

MattSilver 3k
May 8th, 2010, 10:24 PM
Rush just wanted to give Perry a chance to walk and stuff

This. I kinda expect an episode down the line to feature Rush using her again as a favour to her and him more than anything.

Astrofighter
May 8th, 2010, 10:28 PM
carter, mckay and zelenka are by far the 3 biggest experts, hands on experts, perry has been in a wheel chair since she was 9...how many hyper drives do you think she has actually done real work with .... its a story! it wouldnt be all that dramatic for mckay or anyone else we know to go in there the basis of the story was a person in a wheel chair gets to walk and help the crew

magictrick
May 8th, 2010, 11:04 PM
I am so glad it was not McKay. Carter would have been fine, but you have to realize that neither of those characters would have added anything interesting to the story.

It would have been the easy solution to just bring McKay and Carter on board from the start and have them fix the ship in a few hours, as per the previous Stargate standards were any impossible problem could be fixed by those two.

New show, new plot, new atmosphere - let it grow and develop its own characters.

Astrofighter
May 8th, 2010, 11:14 PM
all i have to say is i really hope they get on the ship at some point in time...

pipi
May 8th, 2010, 11:32 PM
Don't you realise actors like Mckay, Carter and Zelenka have a real life outside Stargate, which has finished for them and they have moved on and are doing other things. I've already noticed budget cuts with limited character exposure such as James, the producers are not going to pay the extra premium to get them to guess star whenever Destiny has an emergency.

MattSilver 3k
May 8th, 2010, 11:37 PM
Don't you realise actors like Mckay, Carter and Zelenka have a real life outside Stargate, which has finished for them and they have moved on and are doing other things. I've already noticed budget cuts with limited character exposure such as James, the producers are not going to pay the extra premium to get them to guess star whenever Destiny has an emergency.

Pfft. Logic like that doesn't work on the collective fandom. :P

s09119
May 8th, 2010, 11:39 PM
I love how people assume just because Carter, McKay, Zelenka, and co. were major characters automatically means no one else in the Stargate Program can ever have any more expertise than them in one specific area.

JustAnotherVoice
May 8th, 2010, 11:41 PM
perry has been in a wheel chair since she was 9...how many hyper drives do you think she has actually done real work with ....

By this logic, Hawking isn't one of the leading experts in astrophysics.

All Perry would need is to be able to understand the concepts and physics behind hyperdrive and be able to visualise/conceptualise how they would work in reality. Moreover, since she has been in a wheelchair most of her life, she wouldn't have been called to go galavanting across two galaxies needing to study a bit of everything, which would leave her more time to hone her knowledge of one scientific field.

Lahela
May 9th, 2010, 12:05 AM
I, for one, am immensely happy that they haven't brought Sam or Rodney in to fix anything, and I sincerely hope that it never happens. I loved those characters... on their shows. They were the scientific/engineering/techie stars of their shows, but this is a different show.

Look at how it worked in the other shows, or, more accurately, how the writers made it work. In SGA, Sam didn't get to be the one to solve everything when she was in charge of Atlantis, because that would have been stepping on Rodney's territory. And when Rodney first appeared on SG1, it wasn't him who solved the problem, but Sam. Same goes for SGU - different show, different geniuses.

I also appreciate that in Universe, we are finally given some realism. Yes, there are geniuses on board the Destiny, but they don't pretend to know everything about everything so sometimes they need to bring in outside help, and there is more outside help available than just Sam or Rodney. There are other really, really smart people on Earth. *gasp*

kirmit
May 9th, 2010, 01:31 AM
The way I see it is that while Mckay and Carter have alot of hands on experience with the tech they have other duties to attend to while Perry can devote 100% of her time to becoming an expert on the technology.

Detox
May 9th, 2010, 02:00 AM
Carter and Mckay are jacks of all trades.

But people like Perry are specialists. They do one thing, and do it immensely well.

It makes perfect sense that they want to bring in someone who specializes in the exact problem that they have.

thekillman
May 9th, 2010, 02:47 AM
he could think of two or three people to bring aboard. Mckay, Carter, Perry. he probably chose the last because she's a hyperdrive experts while the other two are an ancient expert and an allrounder. also he had more emotional attachements to Perry

meo3000
May 9th, 2010, 02:53 AM
But Rush pointed to McKay and Sam indirectly, he said that he knew of two or three that were qualified... right there i knew he was talking about them.

Those two love birds are great at fixing thing, but Perry is actually a hyperdrive expert, and shes new, with big blue eyes... and shes horny as hell...

Tuvok
May 9th, 2010, 03:00 AM
Carter and Mckay are jacks of all trades.

But people like Perry are specialists. They do one thing, and do it immensely well.

It makes perfect sense that they want to bring in someone who specializes in the exact problem that they have.

Thank You !

Could'nt have said it better. Being a jack of all trade is a great talent to have. But for a specific expert you get the best in that field.

If they have any unfineshed Atlantis projects lying around , get Rodney. Have a Sun need exploding get Carter. Ancient plumbing acting up get Luigi Mario . Not the other guy, he tends to paw girls while leering and calling them princess.

ckwongau
May 9th, 2010, 04:01 AM
It is perfectly acceptable , someone else became the new best hyper drive expert after Sam and Mackay.
The best record are meant to be eventually be broken .
The fastest person , the best scientist .
Sam and Mackay already make their mark, they can't stay on the top of the game forever.
If someone is the best ,and stay the best forever , then there are no point for the human race to try to be the best.

thekillman
May 9th, 2010, 04:17 AM
she's the person that actually thoroughly studied all the stuff the SG teams bring back. as in, making a living out of it. Mckay and Carter spend the majority of the time offworld, time she dedicated to hyperdrive research. it's possible she was the inventor or one of the creators of the Prometheus' hyperdrive

garhkal
May 9th, 2010, 05:57 AM
she's the person that actually thoroughly studied all the stuff the SG teams bring back. as in, making a living out of it. Mckay and Carter spend the majority of the time offworld, time she dedicated to hyperdrive research. it's possible she was the inventor or one of the creators of the Prometheus' hyperdrive

Oh.. So she is one of the lead scientists at Area 51 where all the goodies they bring back go to..

Tuvok
May 9th, 2010, 06:34 AM
But Rush pointed to McKay and Sam indirectly, he said that he knew of two or three that were qualified... right there i knew he was talking about them.

Those two love birds are great at fixing thing, but Perry is actually a hyperdrive expert, and shes new, with big blue eyes... and shes horny as hell...

Actually thats an assumption on your part, if it was them he would of simply voiced it.

The fact is we see these guys on the fore front all the time. So we, as fans and viewers assume that their the best of the best. Logically there are many more experts out there. And like Perry these experts are the actually best in their chosen fields. It's just we don't see them in the thick of it and just think of Zelenka, McKay, Carter, those other Guys etc etc as the only and main Scientists in the SGC

thekillman
May 9th, 2010, 06:35 AM
i don't know but i guess she's been researching hyperdrives since we got our first Goauld ship. or better, first ship from Roswell.

Trinary
May 9th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Carter has a spaceship to command. McKay and Zalenka has an ancient city to run and to hide from visibility. I guess, it's left someone new to be introduced into the show.

AndSoItBegins
May 9th, 2010, 07:35 AM
I love how people assume just because Carter, McKay, Zelenka, and co. were major characters automatically means no one else in the Stargate Program can ever have any more expertise than them in one specific area.

This was a common problem amongst Star Trek fans once The Next Generation ran its course. Often you kept hearing, especially on DS9 during the Dominion War, was "where is Picard and the Enterprise? They should be involved, blah, blah, blah." This was especially annoying for Trek considering how spread out the Federation is in general and how unrealistic it would be for the Enterprise to drop by during every other crisis.

Major_Griff
May 9th, 2010, 08:08 AM
Rush just wanted to give Perry a chance to walk and stuff

Bingo. He wanted to see his friend and give her the chance to walk around.

*Edit* Not that she isn't among the best, but if it's between three people who are all qualified, he'd pick his friend.

bluealien
May 9th, 2010, 08:20 AM
I love how people assume just because Carter, McKay, Zelenka, and co. were major characters automatically means no one else in the Stargate Program can ever have any more expertise than them in one specific area.

Well if there are all these random people out there why didnt anyone call on them before. McKay was on Atlantis for 5 years so I would think that he is the foremost expert in ancient technology. Where did Perry get her experience from.. I can totally understand them not wanting McKay or Carter because they couldnt have all the drama then and where would the story have gone, but its ludicrous to not even mention McKay or Carter and at least pretend they were unavailable.

Petra
May 9th, 2010, 08:45 AM
she's the person that actually thoroughly studied all the stuff the SG teams bring back. as in, making a living out of it. Mckay and Carter spend the majority of the time offworld, time she dedicated to hyperdrive research. it's possible she was the inventor or one of the creators of the Prometheus' hyperdrive

Actually that was Sam Carter.
You may want to watch Redemption, Prometheus and other episodes dealing with Earth ships' hyperdrives again.

I totally understand why Carter, or McKay for that matter, weren't used. IMO Lahela said it best; each show has its own resident genius(es) and even if another one is brought in, s/he is written in the way so as not to steal spotlight from that show's regulars. Personally, as much as I love Sam, I wouldn't want her to come to Destiny to help out - it's not her show, for one. Besides there are very good in-universe reasons for it: she's in command of Hammond, she's busy, she has other duties and priorities now.

Having said that, however, I object to her not being even mentioned, especially in the light of all her work on hyperdrives on SG-1. That, for me, was a glaring mistake. I already said it on the Episode Discussion thread: SGU's been very successful with blending in with the previous shows' mythology and universe and ignoring Sam in this case pulled me out of the ep for a moment. Seriously, one line like "Well, there's Col Carter obviously, but since she isn't available, I'd recommend..." would solve the problem.

Btw, does somebody know what is McKay's area of expertise? He was introduced as a Gate/wormhole expert in SG-1 but I don't remember if something changed on SGA in that regard. :confused:

Azzers
May 9th, 2010, 09:44 AM
The truth is, I have no problem with an SG1 or Atlantis charecter being brought in to the show, provided two things happen. One, the charecter needs to have a harder edge or if he does not, they need to show how that's going to grate on the crew. I think the harder edge might be assumed if we figure that SG1/SGA are a different style of show and therefore the charecter's are presented one way on them. In SGU, we see the darker side. Or, they stay true to the original show's and we get charecters who are joking and complaining their way through problems. Outside of Eli, I'm not sure any of the crew is going to find that amusing. In fact, you may end up with a situation where by the end of the episode, the Destiny crew is trying to find a way to kick them off the ship. Rodney McKay alone is enough to make anyone want to pull the stone. Things are depressing enough without someone telling you "we're probably going to die if I can't fix it " every five seconds.

Second, I think they should be visiting at the request of Earth because there is something they wish to see. As I think we've discussed on this thread, SGA and SG1 charecters tended to be able to "fix everything" in every episode. So I'd steer them away from directly helping the crew fix problems.

Again, two reasons. One, if they do start fixing everything... I think that damages the forward momentum of the Destiny crew story wise. Second, if we show them as more SGU realistic, I'm not sure that doesn't damage the original charecters. I mean, if Sam shows up and she can't fix an ancient ship in one episode, is she just getting old? I don't think it serves the charecters to have have them show up and show just how unrealistic SGA and SG1 were. Can we show them as less emotionally flamboyant? Sure. Just please don't deminish their skills. Their skills and internal drive are the only thing that prevents complete suspension of disbelief on SG1 and SGA.

My only exception to this rule will be this. If you can bring in an SG1/SGA charecter that has a prior history with an existing crew member, bring 'em on. If Daniel has some unfinished business with Rush, I want to see it. If Zelenka and Brody were old friends and there's a problem they'd like to work on together and the story fits, why not? But please, don't give me a guest star who's there to tech the tech. Don't do it.

Puddle-Jumper
May 9th, 2010, 10:12 AM
carter, mckay and zelenka are by far the 3 biggest experts, hands on experts, perry has been in a wheel chair since she was 9...how many hyper drives do you think she has actually done real work with .... its a story! it wouldnt be all that dramatic for mckay or anyone else we know to go in there the basis of the story was a person in a wheel chair gets to walk and help the crew

It doesn't matter how fast she can take a hyperdrive apart and put it back together again, she designs them so its safe to say she knows them inside out and upside down..... it does matter how intelligent she is and how she understands the concepts and the science behind them, and how the technology utilizes them, and her being in a wheelchair most likely means that she would have put everything into academics with little to no distractions.


Rush just wanted to give Perry a chance to walk and stuff

True, but Rush is always looking out for himself, and if he thought for a second that there was someone that would give him a better chance at survival Im sure thats who he would have called...

Ya I was delighted to see that Carter and McKay aren't the only scientists that Earth can rely on... Even the other hyperdrive specialists were people we hadnt heard of before, I think tptb are kinda regretting having McKay the way he was in SGA, solving the most impossible science in ten minutes, Carter wasn't as bad, and her character might even fit in if she were brought aboard Destiny for a cameo...

Replicator Todd
May 9th, 2010, 11:45 AM
I really wish we got to see Mckay or Carter...or even Zelenka or Dr. Lee! But I do like the character that was chosen.

Kentucky
May 9th, 2010, 12:10 PM
I can't see anything short of threats of impending death by citrus convincing McKay to use the stones. He would freak out over the idea of someone else in his body and all the possible complications which could result from using the device.

g.o.d
May 9th, 2010, 12:15 PM
pressing few buttons on a laptop can't solve Destiny's problems. That's why they didn't choose McKay or Carter :p

Astrofighter
May 9th, 2010, 01:05 PM
and perry did.....oh wait she pressed a couple buttons on a console...

brian_177
May 9th, 2010, 02:16 PM
Aside what people have already said about McKay and Carter being all-around smart people, versus Perry who's a hyperdrive expert, there are other explanations within the story that make perfect sense.

Example: We know that Carter is in command of the Hammond--and for all we know the Hammond is out and about right now... maybe weeks away, maybe days. Maybe McKay is busy doing something on Atlantis of equal importance--maybe they've taken the city out for a quick spin round the galaxy. Whatever the reason(s) behind not bringing in McKay or Carter might be, it was probably for the best--if either of them were there it would be a "yay" moment for fans, but not much more.

Out of curiosity, how many stones do we have capable of making a connection with Earth? Why only bring one scientist?

SBN
May 9th, 2010, 02:36 PM
If people really want to see either Carter or McKay, they have 15 seasons of episodes to watch. But neither has a place on this show, especially McKay. The tone and style just does not fit, it would be akin to having Seinfeld crossover to Law and Order SVU, yeah that would work wonders.

At best any past characters should have very limited cameos, such as they have done so far with O'Neil and Jackson. Say the lines and exist stage left.

wingsabre
May 9th, 2010, 02:46 PM
I'm assuming that McKay is back on Atlantis, and Atlantis is back in Pegasus. If MGM were not in the financial trouble they are in right now, the Atlantis movie would probably have been produced, and I think it was the intention of that movie to take place immediately after Enemy at the Gate. Plus, he's McKay. He may be smart, but not a lot of people will like working with him.

Carter, well she has her own ship, and I would assume that it's far harder to call her back and leave her post.

I got the feeling that it looks like Earth is trying to develop their own FTL type of technology, and maybe she was one of the specialist that were developing it independently from an academic position, with unknown knowledge of the Stargate Program. Either that, or she was tasked to develop an FTL technology before the Asguard gave us the hyper drives.

Tuvok
May 9th, 2010, 03:18 PM
and perry did.....oh wait she pressed a couple buttons on a console...

Yeah that's totally the same !

Except she didn't do it single handed.

And was combined effort of Eli, Rush herself and other scientists working out the math and systems

And took a couple of weeks instead of of a couple of hours tops.

But yeah, totally the same !

:cool:

brian_177
May 9th, 2010, 03:20 PM
At best any past characters should have very limited cameos, such as they have done so far with O'Neil and Jackson. Say the lines and exist stage left.

Limited cameos or significant intervention, in my opinion. I think (if they could think up legit reason for it) the Hammond coming to Destiny's rescue in some crazy battle after all hope was lost in a two parter would be fine, as a totally random example.

Captain Obvious
May 9th, 2010, 04:23 PM
Remember rush said " she is working on the next generation of hyperdrive technology". The stuff that most likely utilizes asgard and alteran tech in new and complicated ways.

These means destiny's hyperdrives are likely better than anything we currently have if rush is looking for someone versed in essentially experimental technologies.

Phenom
May 9th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Why is it so surprising that Mckay and Carter weren't the first ones called upon. I find it completely plausible that there would be scientists who have devoted years to one single aspect of alien tech, as opposed to Mckay and Carter generally being field scientists who have a good grasp of lots of areas.

Tuvok
May 9th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Why is it so surprising that Mckay and Carter weren't the first ones called upon. I find it completely plausible that there would be scientists who have devoted years to one single aspect of alien tech, as opposed to Mckay and Carter generally being field scientists who have a good grasp of lots of areas.

Well..to be fair they are fan favorites and the main technical genies of the last two shows.

After they blow up a sun , and get unfinished Atlantean tech to work within hours. The fans expect them to fix everything. Which kind of traps the characters as a literal Deus ex Machinca of plot. Thankfully something SGU has avoided. They are brilliant men and womenon board , but they just barely manage to keep things working and not perform mechanical miracles on a weekly basis.

:cool:

Commander Zelix
May 9th, 2010, 07:54 PM
At the end it Carter, Perry or Mckey doesn't matter. It seems Perry did more work on Rush than actual scientific work on the ship's hyperdrive (the alien and robot took care of the actual work).

So much I would actually believe the end of episode plot twist:
Rush:"Nah she wasn't really an hyperdrive expert. Just some old student flame I wanted to kiss and make out with... I still like to "bounce ideas" off her tho." :D

Gollumpus
May 9th, 2010, 08:19 PM
I'm all in favor of there not being any more cameos from various characters from the previous two series. Let the current crew (with various guests like Perry) stand on their own two feet, or not. If SGU can't make it with the cast, stories, direction, etc that they currently have on board then it is just as well to let it die.

regards,
G.

Phenom
May 9th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Well..to be fair they are fan favorites and the main technical genies of the last two shows.

After they blow up a sun , and get unfinished Atlantean tech to work within hours. The fans expect them to fix everything. Which kind of traps the characters as a literal Deus ex Machinca of plot. Thankfully something SGU has avoided. They are brilliant men and womenon board , but they just barely manage to keep things working and not perform mechanical miracles on a weekly basis.

:cool:

Yeah we have become accustomed to them fixing any problem in the known universe. I too am thankful that they have gone the more logical route and used someone completely different who likely very accomplished in hyperdrive tech.

EllieVee
May 9th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Bingo. He wanted to see his friend and give her the chance to walk around.

*Edit* Not that she isn't among the best, but if it's between three people who are all qualified, he'd pick his friend.

There's nothing in the episode to suggest this and given Rush's personality type, if there was someone better he'd have said so.

Artemis-Neith
May 9th, 2010, 10:49 PM
Well..to be fair they are fan favorites and the main technical genies of the last two shows.

After they blow up a sun , and get unfinished Atlantean tech to work within hours. The fans expect them to fix everything. Which kind of traps the characters as a literal Deus ex Machinca of plot. Thankfully something SGU has avoided. They are brilliant men and womenon board , but they just barely manage to keep things working and not perform mechanical miracles on a weekly basis.

:cool:

It's exactly that! But, I fear a lot of fans don't want to see real people, what's this show is much more about than the other two, they are used to their wizards! ;)

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 10th, 2010, 04:56 AM
Pharaoh Atem,


mckay and carter wouldn't have added anything to the story. having mandy in the ep made thng much interesting

Oh, come on. Exactly the same storyline except with McKay inside Wray's body. That would have stirred all sorts of internet buzz. It's not just "fixing Wray's Homosexuality" it's Hetero/homosexuality with two men expressing their attraction to each other using a female's body as a go between. A female who happens to be a lesbian. That would set the PC meters on overload.

;)

pipi
May 10th, 2010, 05:22 AM
Pharaoh Atem,



Oh, come on. Exactly the same storyline except with McKay inside Wray's body. That would have stirred all sorts of internet buzz. It's not just "fixing Wray's Homosexuality" it's Hetero/homosexuality with two men expressing their attraction to each other using a female's body as a go between. A female who happens to be a lesbian. That would set the PC meters on overload.

;)

It's quite obvious they have a same sex swap policy, so if McKay was requested, Wray would not be the substitute body. And if they swapped Carter in, Wray would not be the first pick. Wray was infact the last pick; the military was offered first dibs since this was a military operation.

Either way, no hetro/homo fantasy for you. I'm thankful it stays that way.

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 10th, 2010, 05:43 AM
Pipi,

That was an attempt at a tounge in cheek critique of the overreaction to the original story. However, it raises an interesting question. If there is a "same sex policy" for body swaps what do they do if one of the people on Destiny is trans-gendered?

Commander Zelix
May 10th, 2010, 08:17 AM
Pipi,

That was an attempt at a tounge in cheek critique of the overreaction to the original story. However, it raises an interesting question. If there is a "same sex policy" for body swaps what do they do if one of the people on Destiny is trans-gendered?
Even if there's a same sex policy. What do you do if you find blood in your stool after a stone swaps? ;) It can be very awkward and disease prone.

Tuvok
May 10th, 2010, 09:10 AM
There's nothing in the episode to suggest this and given Rush's personality type, if there was someone better he'd have said so.

Very Astute observation.

I will admit Rush has thawed, but he is still practical. He may care deeply on same level for his friend but he is practical. To get a problem you get the best solution. It just happened to be Perry. If it was Harry from Sector D he would have gotten him instead. Rush first and foremost is practical.

ThePlut
May 10th, 2010, 09:51 AM
Call me paranoid, but I think Rush picked Perry for more than one reason. He figured she was outstanding for this particular job, she was his friend, and because she's a specialist, she's less likely to show him up in other areas, or notice other things he might be doing. Rush is really good at one thing, doing what is best for Rush. Perry help gets them out of this mess, but doesn't replace him as general know-it-all.

That is paranoid though, I admit. I assume SGC agreed with his assessment because they actually sent her. If they didn't, they would have picked someone else, no?

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 10th, 2010, 10:12 AM
ThePlut,

What would she miss? Rush's incipient plan to use Destiny to become High Overlord of the known Universe? Oh, that would be obvious to anyone. Just look at the size of his head and his accent. He's Pinky and the Brain in one body!

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 10th, 2010, 11:01 AM
I enjoyed this episode immensely . The most surprising thing about this episode was the SGC most brilliant expert on FTL is someone we never heard of before.

It would have been lazy writing to just to shove Mckay or Carter as the best and the brightest into the slot. But this way it shows that while they are definitely brilliant in their fields. I found that there are others better then them in different fields more realistic.

By the by I'm just assuming but was McKay an expert on Atlantis tech and engineering. Does the fact that Destiny is a prototype older then Pegusus tech make his expertise moot or not?

A fridge brilliance moment that got me . Was while Perry was the best in her field , one due to her disability she could not serve out on the field so she never got to be at the brunt of the action. And two despite being the best of the best took weeks to fix instead of the usual couple of hours.

SGU may be a touch slow, but none the less a touch more realistic.

:P

I'm glad the writers didn't jump on the MacKay/Carter thing, although they did leave the door open for speculation with the 2 or 3 off the top of my head thing from Rush. Having Perry aboard to solve one problem, and not having it done within a matter of minutes but taking three weeks, definitely adds to the realism of SGU.

any_gopher
May 10th, 2010, 11:03 AM
Last night on his blog, Joseph Mallozzi suggested McKay would have been called on for help were it not for the events of Stargate: Extinction. Whether he's referring to the aftermath of the film, or the film would be taking place at that precise moment, who knows. I wish it weren't that way though. I want the movies in realtime... I don't want to watch them having to backtrack.

Major_Griff
May 10th, 2010, 11:12 AM
Last night on his blog, Joseph Mallozzi suggested McKay would have been called on for help were it not for the events of Stargate: Extinction. Whether he's referring to the aftermath of the film, or the film would be taking place at that precise moment, who knows. I wish it weren't that way though. I want the movies in realtime... I don't want to watch them having to backtrack.

Man I wish those movies were out already. I hope whoever buys MGM wants to continue with SG movies.

The Swarm
May 10th, 2010, 11:23 AM
They cant all be Marry Sue's like Carter and McGay you know...

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 10th, 2010, 11:27 AM
They cant all be Marry Sue's like Carter and McKay you know...

thank you!
*bold is my edit*

natyanayaki
May 10th, 2010, 05:53 PM
By this logic, Hawking isn't one of the leading experts in astrophysics.

All Perry would need is to be able to understand the concepts and physics behind hyperdrive and be able to visualise/conceptualise how they would work in reality. Moreover, since she has been in a wheelchair most of her life, she wouldn't have been called to go galavanting across two galaxies needing to study a bit of everything, which would leave her more time to hone her knowledge of one scientific field.

Well Hawking was much older, 21, when diagnosed with ALS while we were told that Perry has been disabled since she was 9, so it is a tad different I think. Though I found the character fascinating, and would have liked to know much more about her. How is it that she was able to accomplish so much, though she's been a quadriplegic since she was a child? I assume some sort of homeschooling etc, wonderful that she didn't "give up" even at a young age. Her story could be fascinating, and I hope we see her again and learn more about her.


I can't see anything short of threats of impending death by citrus convincing McKay to use the stones. He would freak out over the idea of someone else in his body and all the possible complications which could result from using the device.

At least someone would!


If people really want to see either Carter or McKay, they have 15 seasons of episodes to watch. But neither has a place on this show, especially McKay. The tone and style just does not fit, it would be akin to having Seinfeld crossover to Law and Order SVU, yeah that would work wonders.

At best any past characters should have very limited cameos, such as they have done so far with O'Neil and Jackson. Say the lines and exist stage left.

I agree with this, but like others have mentioned before me, I think Sam and/or Rodney should have been mentioned, just a line that they're unavailable, or something. As another poster mentioned, Sam was instrumental in the creation of Earth's ships, and Rodney has years of experience of living off of Alteran technology. I'm glad that they weren't brought on to be the heroes, I just wish that they'd been mentioned.


At the end it Carter, Perry or Mckey doesn't matter. It seems Perry did more work on Rush than actual scientific work on the ship's hyperdrive (the alien and robot took care of the actual work).


Yeah, that confused me too, LOL!

pipi
May 10th, 2010, 06:04 PM
Even if there's a same sex policy. What do you do if you find blood in your stool after a stone swaps? ;) It can be very awkward and disease prone.

Are you speaking from experience? :P

Puddle-Jumper
May 10th, 2010, 06:08 PM
Are you speaking from experience? :P

Blood in the stool normally indicates a gastrointestinal disorder, perhaps bacillary dysternae

EllieVee
May 10th, 2010, 07:44 PM
Call me paranoid, but I think Rush picked Perry for more than one reason. He figured she was outstanding for this particular job, she was his friend, and because she's a specialist, she's less likely to show him up in other areas, or notice other things he might be doing. Rush is really good at one thing, doing what is best for Rush. Perry help gets them out of this mess, but doesn't replace him as general know-it-all.

Given Rush has already acknowledged Eli is better than he is, this seems a bit of a silly accusation. Rush has never shown himself to be an egotist.


That is paranoid though, I admit. I assume SGC agreed with his assessment because they actually sent her. If they didn't, they would have picked someone else, no?

You're paranoid about a fictional character?


ThePlut,

What would she miss? Rush's incipient plan to use Destiny to become High Overlord of the known Universe? Oh, that would be obvious to anyone. Just look at the size of his head and his accent. He's Pinky and the Brain in one body!

*splurk*

latvian_stargatefan
May 11th, 2010, 04:05 AM
According to Joe Malozzi blog, McKay wasn't available for SGU season1 because of events in Atlantis movie and Carter now, as we can see, goes around the galaxy in her ship... so I doubt they can just call her whenever they want. I guess Carter has decided to be a cool ship's captain and leave science to others...

garhkal
May 11th, 2010, 05:01 AM
So, have they greenlit extinction yet?? Or is it still on the backburner?

Astrofighter
May 11th, 2010, 11:19 PM
If they really needed Carter, all they would have to do is call and she could fly to the nearest gate and be home instantly. That and it takes our ships about a day to cross the entire milky way galaxy.

droid327
May 11th, 2010, 11:53 PM
How exactly can anyone be an expert on a technology that heretofore was unknown? Its been established, AFAIK, that Destiny's FTL isnt based on hyperdrive technology or any other FTL principles that have been shown so far. As Volcker (I think) said, "we dont know how it works". If anything, Rush/Eli/et al are the foremost human experts on Destiny's FTL, just because they've spent the most time with it.

And it wasnt as though they were dealing with theoretical principles of FTL travel, they werent authoring a paper, they were bypassing a drive, which requires more engineering skill than anything - they should have sent Siler!!! And then we could have gotten to see him getting blown up again! :)

Commander Zelix
May 12th, 2010, 04:59 AM
How exactly can anyone be an expert on a technology that heretofore was unknown? Its been established, AFAIK, that Destiny's FTL isnt based on hyperdrive technology or any other FTL principles that have been shown so far. As Volcker (I think) said, "we dont know how it works". If anything, Rush/Eli/et al are the foremost human experts on Destiny's FTL, just because they've spent the most time with it.

As mention before. It will be later revealed that Perry wasn't an expert on anything. Rush just invited one of his old student flame to bounce ideas off her and make out a bit. He felt a bit lonely after all this "Human" trip down the memory lane.

JustAnotherVoice
May 12th, 2010, 05:17 AM
Well Hawking was much older, 21, when diagnosed with ALS while we were told that Perry has been disabled since she was 9, so it is a tad different I think. Though I found the character fascinating, and would have liked to know much more about her. How is it that she was able to accomplish so much, though she's been a quadriplegic since she was a child? I assume some sort of homeschooling etc, wonderful that she didn't "give up" even at a young age. Her story could be fascinating, and I hope we see her again and learn more about her.


So? Age and physical ability has very little to do with either's mental acuity, which was the point I making.

Yeah, needing someone to turn pages in textbooks, or a voice-to-text interface to use a computer would make things more complicated, but it has no bearing on how intelligent or driven she is. She doesn't need her hands to be able to understand the physics behind her work, just as Hawking doesn't need his.

J_schinderlin56
May 12th, 2010, 09:04 AM
I don't know, at some point I would like to se Mckay on the show. I would love to see him go at it with Rush. That would be fun to watch!

Major_Griff
May 12th, 2010, 09:36 AM
I don't know, at some point I would like to se Mckay on the show. I would love to see him go at it with Rush. That would be fun to watch!

That would be fun to watch, and on top of that maybe we could get a line of dialogue that explains exactly where Atlantis is. You know is it still in SF bay, is it in antarctica, back in Pegasus, or another planet in MW? That would be nice to find out.

Tuvok
May 12th, 2010, 02:27 PM
That would be fun to watch, and on top of that maybe we could get a line of dialogue that explains exactly where Atlantis is. You know is it still in SF bay, is it in antarctica, back in Pegasus, or another planet in MW? That would be nice to find out.

We proberly found out that Mckay found some unfineshed Atlantean prototype. Took him a couple of hours and TELEPORTED Atlantis back to the Pegusus Galaxy using the never before mentioned Warp Gate Teleporter.

Seriously, they need to get that Atlantis movie up and running stat. Or AT LEAST post some answers somewhere for the fans.

blackluster
May 12th, 2010, 02:38 PM
I was glad about Perry's involvement, both in terms of what we were able to learn about Rush through her and simply how she defines Earth's scientific capability in Stargate Universe. As far as her status goes compared with Carter and Mckay, it seems easy for me to rationalize. For instance, as smart as Carter is, she by no means represents the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers. I remember an old ep we she traveled to an airforce base to recruit an officer who displayed mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's. It would frankly be strange if there weren't already several people on earth who have surpassed Carter and Mckay in terms of understanding specific systems or concepts. The two of them certainly aren't sitting somewhere reverse engineering the host of tech that earth had captured over the years, so the revealing of one expert so far is timeous.

natyanayaki
May 12th, 2010, 05:32 PM
So? Age and physical ability has very little to do with either's mental acuity, which was the point I making.

Yeah, needing someone to turn pages in textbooks, or a voice-to-text interface to use a computer would make things more complicated, but it has no bearing on how intelligent or driven she is. She doesn't need her hands to be able to understand the physics behind her work, just as Hawking doesn't need his.

It has nothing to do with mental acumen, agreed, but age is related to the amount individuals tend to learn at a certain point. Assuming she was in regular public school until her accident, her knowledge of physics would be minimal, as opposed to someone who at least had motor skill into his adult years. It works in both ways for Perry, on the one hand, needing help would have made it harder to "change a page" etc etc, but it might have made her more driven. I don't know, as I said, I think it exceptionally interesting given her age, and I think the fact that she was much younger (and I believe it was an accident, thus more "sudden) changes things up a bit. So while similar to Hawking in some ways, the situations are different.

JustAnotherVoice
May 13th, 2010, 02:15 AM
It has nothing to do with mental acumen, agreed, but age is related to the amount individuals tend to learn at a certain point. Assuming she was in regular public school until her accident, her knowledge of physics would be minimal, as opposed to someone who at least had motor skill into his adult years. It works in both ways for Perry, on the one hand, needing help would have made it harder to "change a page" etc etc, but it might have made her more driven. I don't know, as I said, I think it exceptionally interesting given her age, and I think the fact that she was much younger (and I believe it was an accident, thus more "sudden) changes things up a bit. So while similar to Hawking in some ways, the situations are different.

The situations aren't nearly as different as you try to make it out to be, but there are too many unknown variables in your line of argument to make this a fair comparison. Her character was probably based on Hawking, but too many details are left out for the argument that I think you're trying to make. For all we know, she went to a school for gifted children, was natrually prodigious in math based disciplines and had grandma Mabel drive her to and from church every sunday.

Theoretical physics is more of a math exercise than a practical one; some of the greatest scientific discoveries were made from simple observation; etc etc etc. All I was stating initially, was that being physically handicapped has nothing to do with her intellectual capacity, nor does being unable to touch a working engine mean she couldn't help design one, which was what Astrofighter was implying.

Petra
May 13th, 2010, 01:36 PM
I was glad about Perry's involvement, both in terms of what we were able to learn about Rush through her and simply how she defines Earth's scientific capability in Stargate Universe. As far as her status goes compared with Carter and Mckay, it seems easy for me to rationalize. For instance, as smart as Carter is, she by no means represents the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers. I remember an old ep we she traveled to an airforce base to recruit an officer who displayed mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's. It would frankly be strange if there weren't already several people on earth who have surpassed Carter and Mckay in terms of understanding specific systems or concepts. The two of them certainly aren't sitting somewhere reverse engineering the host of tech that earth had captured over the years, so the revealing of one expert so far is timeous.

Just to get our facts straight: there was never any episode like the one you described. Ever. Perhaps you confused SG-1 with some other show?

The closest thing to the bolded on SG-1 was Prodigy in season 4, when Carter was asked to give a lecture at the AF Academy and one of the students, Jennifer Hailey, caught her eye. She introduced Hailey into the program, but only because the girl was about to be expelled for bad behaviour - caused, as it turned out, by her frustration that she *couldn't* top Sam in anything. The episode ended on a note that Jennifer may be able to become second Sam Carter one day, if she works hard enough. But she certainly *didn't* "display mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's.".

And the fact is, in SG-1 universe Sam *was* "the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers", as you put it. You may not like it, you may find it unbelievable, but it's a fact.

As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know. ;)

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 13th, 2010, 02:01 PM
...
As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know. ;)
FWIW, I've never put down Carter; I just don't believe she fits in SGU.

Petra
May 13th, 2010, 02:54 PM
FWIW, I've never put down Carter; I just don't believe she fits in SGU.

And obviously I meant people who did, not all SGU fans. :)

And I agree with you about her not fitting in, if she was to be portrayed like on SG-1. Although I suspect that the writers would change her a little, like they changed Jack, if she was ever to make an appearance. Having said that, I liked her cameo in "Air" but I wouldn't want to see her in SGU in a bigger role either.

Sorry if I sound cranky. I had a rough day, am tired and sick of *some* people having a go at Sam just because. :o

pipi
May 13th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Petra,

If you love Sam, do you watch Santuary too?

natyanayaki
May 13th, 2010, 05:06 PM
The situations aren't nearly as different as you try to make it out to be, but there are too many unknown variables in your line of argument to make this a fair comparison. Her character was probably based on Hawking, but too many details are left out for the argument that I think you're trying to make. For all we know, she went to a school for gifted children, was natrually prodigious in math based disciplines and had grandma Mabel drive her to and from church every sunday.

Theoretical physics is more of a math exercise than a practical one; some of the greatest scientific discoveries were made from simple observation; etc etc etc. All I was stating initially, was that being physically handicapped has nothing to do with her intellectual capacity, nor does being unable to touch a working engine mean she couldn't help design one, which was what Astrofighter was implying.

BUT THAT WAS MY POINT AS WELL. I know that she's probably based off Hawking - but that doesn't mean that their life-stories are identical- there could easily be variations. I know there are a lot of variables, that's why I found the character interesting. There are so many possibilities with this character, and that was my point, it's exactly why I'd like to see her again. In fact, I'm more interested in her, than many of the show's regulars. I'm not commenting on her intellectual prowess, just that I'd be interested in finding out more about the character because she is fascinating. That was my point.

blackluster
May 14th, 2010, 09:36 AM
Just to get our facts straight: there was never any episode like the one you described. Ever. Perhaps you confused SG-1 with some other show?

The closest thing to the bolded on SG-1 was Prodigy in season 4, when Carter was asked to give a lecture at the AF Academy and one of the students, Jennifer Hailey, caught her eye. She introduced Hailey into the program, but only because the girl was about to be expelled for bad behaviour - caused, as it turned out, by her frustration that she *couldn't* top Sam in anything. The episode ended on a note that Jennifer may be able to become second Sam Carter one day, if she works hard enough. But she certainly *didn't* "display mathematical aptitude far in excess of Carter's.".I stand corrected, though I do believe in her discussions with Carter she did show aptitude that would certainly exceed Carter's and she didn't seem to be a student of a great many years.


And the fact is, in SG-1 universe Sam *was* "the pinnacle of Earth's intellectual powers", as you put it. You may not like it, you may find it unbelievable, but it's a fact.I doubt it, considering the nature of intellectual minds in humans and how they tend to manifest. Carter seems like the best because she is the only one with clearance to look at some of the things she was looking at. The point being that with the expansion of the Stargate program, that would certainly have lead to the inclusion of highly adept minds, immediate examples in canon would be Mckay himself (from his earliest introduction), Rush and probably quite significantly, Eli, someone who managed to crack a problem of years in a couple of months in an alien language he hadn't even seen before.


As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you knowNothing in my original post was to put down a fandom. I don't see the point in hyping characters either. So I don't see why anyone would regard Carter as the smartest person on the planet even in SG1 times, since considering what the modern academic community is, it simply doesn't make sense.

Gollumpus
May 14th, 2010, 10:18 AM
I am so glad it was not McKay. Carter would have been fine, but you have to realize that neither of those characters would have added anything interesting to the story.

It would have been the easy solution to just bring McKay and Carter on board from the start and have them fix the ship in a few hours, as per the previous Stargate standards were any impossible problem could be fixed by those two.

New show, new plot, new atmosphere - let it grow and develop its own characters.

This. 'Nuff said.

regards,
G.

Petra
May 14th, 2010, 10:19 AM
Petra,

If you love Sam, do you watch Santuary too?

What does it have to do with anything? AFAIK there's no Sam Carter in Sanctuary, is there?

I'm weird in that I'm a fan of characters, not actors (ok, with an exception for RDA :o).



I stand corrected, though I do believe in her discussions with Carter she did show aptitude that would certainly exceed Carter's and she didn't seem to be a student of a great many years.

Oh, she certainly was a smart cookie, I'm not disputing that. Whether she was indeed smarter than Carter..let's just say it's up for a debate, and since this is not a place to have one, I'm willing to agree to disagree.


I doubt it, considering the nature of intellectual minds in humans and how they tend to manifest. Carter seems like the best because she is the only one with clearance to look at some of the things she was looking at. The point being that with the expansion of the Stargate program, that would certainly have lead to the inclusion of highly adept minds, immediate examples in canon would be Mckay himself (from his earliest introduction), Rush and probably quite significantly, Eli, someone who managed to crack a problem of years in a couple of months in an alien language he hadn't even seen before.

Nothing in my original post was to put down a fandom. I don't see the point in hyping characters either. So I don't see why anyone would regard Carter as the smartest person on the planet even in SG1 times, since considering what the modern academic community is, it simply doesn't make sense.

You know what, I think we are looking at the situation from different perspectives. You look at it realistically, sort of like SGU. I look at it as it was established in SG-1 - great show, but one that due to its subgenre and its limitations had to often take shortcuts and make its characters unrealistically smart (not just Sam either; just look at Daniel). And in SG-1 perspective Sam was the smartest scientist on Earth; even when Dr Markov and Mckay were introduced, Sam was still the one who came up with the correct solutions. Was it realistic? No, but it was that way nevertheless.

Oh, and I'm not trying to hype Sam, she doesn't need it ;)

latvian_stargatefan
May 14th, 2010, 11:06 AM
And I agree with you about her not fitting in, if she was to be portrayed like on SG-1. Although I suspect that the writers would change her a little, like they changed Jack, if she was ever to make an appearance. Having said that, I liked her cameo in "Air" but I wouldn't want to see her in SGU in a bigger role either.

I guess TPTB have decided to put her in one place for SGU, she is the commander of the "Hammond'' and that's all. After all, she's an Air Force Colonel and maybe for the sake of realism the writers decided that scientific genius + Air Force Colonel commanding a ship doesn't quite fit in one person in SGU realistic universe... Maybe there's some episode when she has to show that she knows the ships engines and stuff too but I doubt she'll be portrayed as scientific genius in SGU- whether we like it or not.

Though McKay is a complex and interesting characer + he is only a scientist so he fits in and sooner or later he'll visit Destiny as a science guy. But Malozzi said that in season 1 he couldn't be available because of Atlantis movie (whether it gets made or not)

blackluster
May 14th, 2010, 12:02 PM
For original cast entering Destiny as experts I'd far rather see Daniel, since I think it would be nice to have insight into the past (which Destiny represents) from the perspective of an archaeologist instead of a classical scientist. It would be the chance to explore something about the Ancients that has been lacking in the SG storytelling to date, that being Ancient society. I'm hoping that Destiny hails from a time where Ancient society/mindset was a bit closer to ours and as such, having it explained through the Daniel character would be more interesting than fixing the hax tech of the day.

pipi
May 14th, 2010, 02:43 PM
What does it have to do with anything? AFAIK there's no Sam Carter in Sanctuary, is there?

I'm weird in that I'm a fan of characters, not actors (ok, with an exception for RDA :o)

Just making sure you're not one of those stalker weirdos that find a Sam Carter poster in their bedroom hot. ;)

EllieVee
May 14th, 2010, 04:29 PM
As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know. ;)

Question for you: what if someone has never liked a particular character on SG-1 or SGA? I have never liked Carter, not from Children of the Gods, not ever. Am I not allowed to say so now because I am an SGU fan?

Gollumpus
May 14th, 2010, 05:07 PM
Question for you: what if someone has never liked a particular character on SG-1 or SGA? I have never liked Carter, not from Children of the Gods, not ever. Am I not allowed to say so now because I am an SGU fan?

Uhm, yes? No? Maybe?

regards,
G.

Petra
May 15th, 2010, 09:48 AM
Just making sure you're not one of those stalker weirdos that find a Sam Carter poster in their bedroom hot. ;)

:lol: I thought that pinning posters to your bedroom's walls is a teenage thing? I assure you I'm not in my teens anymore. ;)


Question for you: what if someone has never liked a particular character on SG-1 or SGA? I have never liked Carter, not from Children of the Gods, not ever. Am I not allowed to say so now because I am an SGU fan?

Err...what?

When did I ever say that people should have nothing but undying love for Carter? In fact I made a point to avoid using any sentiments one may or may not have towards the character in all my posts, bar my own personal sympathy. We all have different likes and dislikes and I have no problem with that. To put it bluntly, I really don't care if you like Carter or detest her. Be my guest and say whatever you need to get off your chest.

The only thing I object to is diminishing her role in the Stargate Program simply because she's not on SGU. Specifically, when people started to claim that she didn't know a thing about hyperdrives when she'd been established as a pioneer and the best (field) expert on them, or that she wasn't that smart when she'd been established as just *that* smart. These are facts and whether you like her or not has nothing to do with it.

I think it's time for me to leave this thread. :)

EllieVee
May 15th, 2010, 11:28 PM
Err...what?

When did I ever say that people should have nothing but undying love for Carter? In fact I made a point to avoid using any sentiments one may or may not have towards the character in all my posts, bar my own personal sympathy. We all have different likes and dislikes and I have no problem with that. To put it bluntly, I really don't care if you like Carter or detest her. Be my guest and say whatever you need to get off your chest.

I think, before you depart, you should read your own post again. Here it is:

Quote Originally Posted by Petra View Post
As a Carter fan, SG-1 fan and SGU fan I had no problem with Perry being in this ep - on the contrary, I liked it. But I wish people would stop putting down SG-1 characters - or even fabricate their own history - just to show how "superior" SGU and its characters are. It's totally unnecessary. You can love both of them, you know.

You said you wished people would stop putting down SG-1 characters to show how good SGU characters are. Well, speaking of fabrication ... Petra, I don't see any 'put down' of SG-1 characters to show how superior SGU is. Where has anyone done that? You've done it again in this post. I didn't say you said people had to have undying love for Carter. All I asked is if someone disliked a character from the get-go (and I used Carter as the example because I dislike her and always have done) are we not allowed to say so anymore if we're SGU fans?