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Madwelshboy
May 7th, 2010, 02:12 AM
THE APOCALYPSE – The entire season has been leading up to this showdown between good and evil. With the Apocalypse looming, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) realize they are out of options and make heart-breaking decisions that will change their lives forever. A beloved character is killed. Steve Boyum directed the episode with teleplay by Eric Kripke and story by Eric Gewitz (#522).

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Jeffer
May 13th, 2010, 05:58 PM
OMG what an ep i hate that we have to wait for season 6. Was chuck god and how was Sam standing there was it god that brought him back and he doesn't want to see dean so he can live the life he wants. SO MAY QUESTIONS for season 6

RodneyIsGodney
May 13th, 2010, 06:04 PM
OMG what an ep i hate that we have to wait for season 6 i only have one question was chuck god
That's what I wanna know! Because...holy CRAP! Man, what an episode that was!

Btw, how did you watch it so early? I just got through watching it on TV and you posted right before it started... Internet? Different timezone? What?

Jeffer
May 13th, 2010, 06:05 PM
I just posted when it ended it airs from 9-10 on sun TV i am in EST time zone

TheRandomOne
May 13th, 2010, 06:14 PM
It would make sense for Chuck to have been god this entire time. But where is John if he was in heaven at one point & he was not there when the boys were there ?

the fifth man
May 13th, 2010, 06:20 PM
What a season finale. It definitely did not disappoint, on any level. So Chuck was God, eh? I definitely didn't see that coming. And it looks like Sam and Dean passed the test his sons Lucifer and Michael could not. I really can't wait to see where this takes us next season.

TheRandomOne
May 13th, 2010, 06:23 PM
I feel bad for Lisa though since next season Dean will just leave her again

the fifth man
May 13th, 2010, 06:24 PM
I feel bad for Lisa though since next season Dean will just leave her again

Yeah, something will definitely draw him and Sam back into the hunting game.

TheRandomOne
May 13th, 2010, 06:31 PM
I say give Lisa super powers so that she can kick Dean's ass. But she is also probably the only female that he has dated who knows about the family business thing

the fifth man
May 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM
I say give Lisa super powers so that she can kick Dean's ass. But she is also probably the only female that he has dated who knows about the family business thing

Nah, that would definitely be "jumping the shark" IMO.:)

TheRandomOne
May 13th, 2010, 06:37 PM
Nah, that would definitely be "jumping the shark" IMO.:)

Hey maybe God is Lisa lol

Arative
May 13th, 2010, 07:25 PM
That was not how I thought it would go, that's for sure. I kept waiting for Dean to push Sam into the pit and go with him. I didn't expect Chuck to be God from the way the episode started, I thought maybe God was hiding in the Impala or something like that. I wonder if that is the last we've seen of Cas?

Considering that I'm fairly sure that this episode was written before the show was renewed for a 6th season, it would have made a great series finale, except for Sam being in the pit but that was damn good. I can't wait to see where they take us in season 6.

Salamas
May 13th, 2010, 09:01 PM
I can just say !!!!! and Holy crap! Kripke is amazing. Really really amazing. I am just whoa!
And Chuck is definitely God. God with hooker and alcohol problem. Well hey I guess running creation takes its toll on a person.

kennythewraith
May 13th, 2010, 11:17 PM
HOLY S***!!!that was awesome!not at all wat i was expecting from this epsiode very well done and kripke delivers once again,im still hoping cas will be back a little bit and i really hope that we get some answers about chuck being god at some point next season but i am concerned about sam,he didnt look very sam like when he appeared in front of lisa's house im wondering if he starts out as the big bad next season.

iolanda
May 14th, 2010, 01:21 AM
Holy crap! That was incredible. I didn't expect it to end this way, really, I didn't. And I am unable to form proper sentences, I guess I need some time.

starg8fans
May 14th, 2010, 04:14 AM
WOW, that was something else. A great ending to the story arch, with a nice setup for S6.

So Chuck is/was God. Or is he? Hmmm. It would explain why in The Monster at the End of this Book and Lucifer Rising Dean and Cas managed to change the storyline according to Chuck. In both cases when Dean showed up at Chuck's place, he said that's not how he had written it - and I was wondering what gave Dean the power to override the prophet's vision. But of course God would have been able to rewrite the script, or rather could have kept the real script under wraps. It could have been one way of helping the boys believe that their choices mattered where fate was concerned.

On the other hand - what about the amulet? According to Cas it was supposed to 'burn hot in God's presence'. Why didn't it when Dean was around Chuck?

iolanda
May 14th, 2010, 04:25 AM
On the other hand - what about the amulet? According to Cas it was supposed to 'burn hot in God's presence'. Why didn't it when Dean was around Chuck?

Maybe the amulet was always just an amulet. Or you have to believe an know that it burns hot in gods presence. Or God wasn't in Chuck at first, or just when he had his visions or when he was writing (that would explain why Chuck didn't believe Sam and Dean that they are in fact Sam and Dean).

Aerilon
May 14th, 2010, 06:42 AM
Well, that was actually quite poor...

I was expecting a whole lot more than we were given. There were a few twists and turns about the place, but half of what we expected to see never actually happened. It seems obvious that Chuck is God (I do believe that Kripke clearly stated we'd see God in the final episode, and it wasn't Bobby). I find it hard to believe that God would drink Coffee and invite Hookers around though, just doesn't seem in his nature.. then again, what do we know of God?

I liked the twist that now, both Michael and Lucifer are stuck in Hell together, no doubt they will somehow find a way out, though I am curious what happened to Sam and Adam. I'd predict that Sam was 'brought back' by God, and that Adam 'remained dead, but in Heaven'. Seems only fair as he was used by Michael. That being said, it seems we've only got Raphael left as the last Archangel (although Castiel could be one now, as he did state he's been brought back better or something to that extent). Hopefully we'll see him again; I'd actually like to see Raphael again too, and Gabriel (would have thought God would bring him back, but no).

I'm having a hard time seeing Chuck as God. The whole 'Archangels defend Prophets', when it actual fact, they seem to be protecting God himself? So much confusion right there. Regardless, I did expect a bit more from the episode (Cas exploding was cool though). Hopefully season six (and onward) will give us something nice and new to chew on, though I'm willing to bet it'll end up with Dean looking for Sam, or something... can't see how they're going to continue Supernatural with Dean living the happy little life.

Salamas
May 14th, 2010, 07:14 AM
On the other hand - what about the amulet? According to Cas it was supposed to 'burn hot in God's presence'. Why didn't it when Dean was around Chuck?

Well considering if Chuck is God, he is God, God can do stuff. I'm sure he'd find a way to disguise himself from the amulet.

TheRandomOne
May 14th, 2010, 07:29 AM
Did Bobby get his soul back ? & I wonder if Sam is an angel now since they would need a Michael replacement

Jeffer
May 14th, 2010, 07:38 AM
i hope bobby got his soul back. I think that Sam is half angle half human and has to work for heaven. I think god pulled him out and made a deal with him. also fav line from the entire ep. "How bout it Sam a fiddle of gold against your soul to think I'm better then you" also loved the song Dean chose for the lead up in the impala 'Rock of Ages' by Def Leppard

Aerilon
May 14th, 2010, 07:39 AM
Still bitter about this disappointment, I'm not done here.

Archangels: It has been a prophecy (if you like) that Michael and Lucifer had to eventually fight each other. One (or both) would end up dying because of this. This leaves a single Archangel; Raphael. Is it now his job to stop Lucifer? Is it his job to stop both Michael and Lucifer? Baring in mind (last we saw) he was still trapped in a ring of fire, and as such, isn't going to be doing much with his spare time at any point soon.

Also, whilst on the subject of Lucifer, even though 'evil' he was the one who was right. Lets not do what God wants, lets decide our own fate. Michael was the Ignorant one here, and paid the price for it.

Death and Heaven: Does anything that 'dies' go on to live in Heaven? This would include Angels. If not, what happens to everything other than Human when other such entity dies? This has never been explained. Sam and Adam would have died, this much we get, yet there was nothing to stop them being brought back to life once Michael and Lucifer had settled their score.

God / Chuck: I refuse to believe that Chuck is God. If Chuck was God, then God (being all-knowing) would have known it was Dean on the end of the phone. There was no need for Chuck to cover up that magazine like he did, nor was there any reason for Chuck to have acted like he has in past episodes. Personally, I think the writers ran out of paper here, and just threw Chuck's character in at the deep end. There are so many things Chuck has done, and so much that has surrounded him, that it makes no sense for him to actually be God.

Castiel: Firstly I think he gave up hope (at the start) a little too much, or too quickly. Also, come the end, he simply 'left'. Like Dean said, he was crap at goodbye's. That entire scene was rushed. Cas has spent a year or so with Sam and Dean, and he just leaves like that? It neither explained what happened / happens to hos vessel. Jimmy died some time ago, or at least would be in a comatosed state. When Cas went back to Heaven, does Jimmy go back with him? - If so, next time we see Cas (if at all) he'll need a new vessel. Jimmy is no longer with us.

It would have been nice of Cas gave Jimmy's life back to him, somewhat on the condition that if Cas needed a vessel again, Jimmy would be obliging, but no, they failed to even think about that.

The Amulet: Chances are nothing could actually locate God. Why should it? I don't know where Castiel got his information from, but it doesn't seem to fit very well. Just so happens an Amulet of Dean's was suppose to show God's location? I think not.

Dean: Was nice of him to mention Adam at the end when in the car with Cas. Adam wasn't even mentioned. Dean just went on about how he'd lost Sam.

Bobby: So he has a deal with Crowley (what happened to him by the way, he wasn't even in this episode). Did Bobby go to Hell for a few days (hell-time is different), or did Bobby go to Heaven? We don't know exactly what his deal with Crowley was. Neither do we know whether he has his soul back. Seems a bit hypocritical that Dean and Bobby part ways if Bobby still owes Crowley.


I'm actually quite annoyed right now...


Edit: I doubt very much that Sam is an Angel or anything. It wouldn't make sense for him to be one, and not Dean. I think either Sam was free'd (by God), or that Sam is dead, but was given the chance to see Dean settling down, and fulfilling his promise. Suffice to say, Season 6 will need both of them, and in some respect, they'll both need to be Human again, even though we know Heaven sucks.

Heaven
May 14th, 2010, 07:50 AM
wow what an ep. this felt like a series finale

I don't think Chuck is God, I think he was just whisked away for something that will kick off next season
just like Sam suddenly showing up

Aerilon
May 14th, 2010, 07:59 AM
wow what an ep. this felt like a series finale

I don't think Chuck is God, I think he was just whisked away for something that will kick off next season
just like Sam suddenly showing upThats just the thing though, we've been told that God was to make an appearance in this episode. Chuck is the only person he could have been. The only other thing Chuck could be is another Supernatural being, but even then, we never met God.

In addition to this, we've been told that the next season wont have anything to do with the Apocalypse or Archangels etc. Either we're being lied too, or they're taking it from a whole new point of view.

Arative
May 14th, 2010, 08:15 AM
Still bitter about this disappointment, I'm not done here.

Archangels: It has been a prophecy (if you like) that Michael and Lucifer had to eventually fight each other. One (or both) would end up dying because of this. This leaves a single Archangel; Raphael. Is it now his job to stop Lucifer? Is it his job to stop both Michael and Lucifer? Baring in mind (last we saw) he was still trapped in a ring of fire, and as such, isn't going to be doing much with his spare time at any point soon.

But the prophecy doesn't say when they have to fight. It could be with both of them in pit now, that the previous prophecy about armageddon is no longer valid. The future isn't written and all that.
We also don't know if God brought back Gabriel, he certainly could have done it off screen. From what Cas said, he might be an archangel now. He's probably in heaven, taking control. I guess that's some stuff they should address in season 6


Also, whilst on the subject of Lucifer, even though 'evil' he was the one who was right. Lets not do what God wants, lets decide our own fate. Michael was the Ignorant one here, and paid the price for it.

Lucifer always struck me as a petulant child. He wanted to be loved more than all others and he got angry when God loved Man more than him.


Death and Heaven: Does anything that 'dies' go on to live in Heaven? This would include Angels. If not, what happens to everything other than Human when other such entity dies? This has never been explained. Sam and Adam would have died, this much we get, yet there was nothing to stop them being brought back to life once Michael and Lucifer had settled their score.

From what little we were told about heaven, it seems only humans go there after death. But since we were never told what happens to angels or demons or any of the creatures the boys kill after they die, I don't think we can assume they go to heave.

Sam and Adam could have been brought back after Michael and Lucifer fought but you have to remember, when they did fight, it was going to lay waste to a great deal of the planet. That's why Dean and Sam were trying to find a way to stop the battle.


God / Chuck: I refuse to believe that Chuck is God. If Chuck was God, then God (being all-knowing) would have known it was Dean on the end of the phone. There was no need for Chuck to cover up that magazine like he did, nor was there any reason for Chuck to have acted like he has in past episodes. Personally, I think the writers ran out of paper here, and just threw Chuck's character in at the deep end. There are so many things Chuck has done, and so much that has surrounded him, that it makes no sense for him to actually be God.

Was it ever stated in the series that God was all knowing? I can't recall that it was, in which case you're proscribing your own belief about God. Plus, who doesn't want a God with a sense of humor?

I've always thought that Chuck was Kripke injecting himself in the story, so in a very real sense, Kripke is God in the world that he created, so it makes sense from that perspective that Chuck would be God.


Castiel: Firstly I think he gave up hope (at the start) a little too much, or too quickly. Also, come the end, he simply 'left'. Like Dean said, he was crap at goodbye's. That entire scene was rushed. Cas has spent a year or so with Sam and Dean, and he just leaves like that? It neither explained what happened / happens to hos vessel. Jimmy died some time ago, or at least would be in a comatosed state. When Cas went back to Heaven, does Jimmy go back with him? - If so, next time we see Cas (if at all) he'll need a new vessel. Jimmy is no longer with us.

It would have been nice of Cas gave Jimmy's life back to him, somewhat on the condition that if Cas needed a vessel again, Jimmy would be obliging, but no, they failed to even think about that.

Again, you don't know what happened off screen. Cas could have beamed back to Jimmy's house and left him there. Since Cas wasn't an archangel, Jimmy should be fine. Not seeing what happened to Jimmy leaves the opening to Cas to return next season. So its no wonder they didn't tie that story line up.


The Amulet: Chances are nothing could actually locate God. Why should it? I don't know where Castiel got his information from, but it doesn't seem to fit very well. Just so happens an Amulet of Dean's was suppose to show God's location? I think not.

Didn't Cas say he heard a rumor about objects that could locate God? Maybe it was just God's way of getting Cas out of the picture to let the boys do what they needed to do or maybe just the writers getting a powerful character out of the way.


Dean: Was nice of him to mention Adam at the end when in the car with Cas. Adam wasn't even mentioned. Dean just went on about how he'd lost Sam.

So Dean should feel as broken up over a kid he barely knows over Sam, who he practically raised? I'm sure he feels bad about Adam but I can see where he feels worse about Sam.


Bobby: So he has a deal with Crowley (what happened to him by the way, he wasn't even in this episode). Did Bobby go to Hell for a few days (hell-time is different), or did Bobby go to Heaven? We don't know exactly what his deal with Crowley was. Neither do we know whether he has his soul back. Seems a bit hypocritical that Dean and Bobby part ways if Bobby still owes Crowley.

I'm pretty sure that Crowley gave back Bobby his soul last episode but I'd have to go back and rewatch it, just to be sure.

LoneStar1836
May 14th, 2010, 09:37 AM
I've always thought that Chuck was Kripke injecting himself in the story, so in a very real sense, Kripke is God in the world that he created, so it makes sense from that perspective that Chuck would be God.Exactly. Though I never considered Chuck to be Kripke since he was introduced. Not until this episode and the way they had Chuck narrate it did I totally equate him as being Kripke/God. :D Heh, I like it. RDM gave himself the same nod in the last episode of BSG.



I can't say "wow! the episode totally blew me away", but I do love it. If this had to be the final episode, I could totally live with it...well except for the ending with Sam standing there (which obviously leads to S6) because I'd need some answers for that. I love Joss Whedon, so I'm used to main characters dying in his shows. So if they had left us with Sam being gone, he went out as a hero.

Cas/Jimmy: I'm thinking Jimmy has long been dead, which would be the merciful thing. Cas got killed by an archangel at the end of season four and once again in this episode he was blown to little pieces. Anna got to come back looking like her original vessel, why not Cas.

Was I the only one worried that this episode was going to be the Impala's swan song? :D TVGuide had mentioned it would play a part in the episode, and then the ep started off the way it did. So I was preparing myself for it to be driven into Hell or something. I liked the way it played into the episode.

Bring on Season 6. :)

iolanda
May 14th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Was I the only one worried that this episode was going to be the Impala's swan song? :D TVGuide had mentioned it would play a part in the episode, and then the ep started off the way it did. So I was preparing myself for it to be driven into Hell or something. I liked the way it played into the episode.

Bring on Season 6. :)

I wasn't worried, I was sure that the Impala would be the one to go. But the she didn't- And I am very happy about that, and about that neither Bobby nor Cas died for good.

NIMBUS
May 14th, 2010, 11:31 AM
umm yea, i don't know how likely this is but imo it would be sweet if lucy and mike would for any reason experience what castiel did when he became almost human (his host was a vegetable and he lost his powers)...
...i'm talking very fan-ficcy here but what the hell - if entering the cage with a host would do that to them and then spit them out... the two strongest/arrogant angels would be that they hate the most and practically two small whiny girls comparing to what they were before :D
btw, they could technically fulfill their destiny and fight each other :)
...PM me the link if someone decides to write ANYTHING similar to that or it already exists..
...by btw (my version of pps :D) it was what sam looked like in the end of the ep...
...cheers!

marielabbott
May 14th, 2010, 05:19 PM
Was I the only one worried that this episode was going to be the Impala's swan song? :D TVGuide had mentioned it would play a part in the episode, and then the ep started off the way it did. So I was preparing myself for it to be driven into Hell or something. I liked the way it played into the episode.

As soon as the narration began, I thought the "beloved character" that was going to die would be the Impala. :p

I'm still processing the episode, but I am stumbling over Chuck apparently being God. God is the author, so sure, that part makes perfect sense...but not much else about Chuck's behavior. At the moment, I don't think I like it much. Maybe that will change with a rewatch. :S

This would have been a good series finale. I'm glad it's not, but I could've lived with it. Sam defeating the devil, while making Dean promise to live the apple pie life Sam began the show yearning for. Interesting circle there, full of SPN's brand of sadness.

I wonder what season 6 will bring? I'm glad we will get to see. :)

the fifth man
May 14th, 2010, 06:27 PM
I am still reeling over how good this one was. I really can't wait to get Season 6 underway.

Aerilon
May 15th, 2010, 12:33 AM
But the prophecy doesn't say when they have to fight. It could be with both of them in pit now, that the previous prophecy about armageddon is no longer valid. The future isn't written and all that.Well thats just it, the future is suppose to already be wrote. Sam was always going to say yes in Detroit for example.


We also don't know if God brought back Gabriel, he certainly could have done it off screen. From what Cas said, he might be an archangel now. He's probably in heaven, taking control. I guess that's some stuff they should address in season 6They should address this in season 6 yeah, but I bet they wont, especially in regards to Gabriel. All they're likely to address is Castiel, but then, come season 6, there isn't really any need for Castiel to be around. The Apocalypse has ended. Cas can't keep popping down to help out the Winchesters whenever he feels like it, surely?


Lucifer always struck me as a petulant child. He wanted to be loved more than all others and he got angry when God loved Man more than him.This was the case, always was. But what I'm saying is he had the right idea, that being not to follow the 'plan' that God had set out. It was Michael who wouldn't take a different road, Lucifer was all for it.


Was it ever stated in the series that God was all knowing? I can't recall that it was, in which case you're proscribing your own belief about God. Plus, who doesn't want a God with a sense of humor?

I've always thought that Chuck was Kripke injecting himself in the story, so in a very real sense, Kripke is God in the world that he created, so it makes sense from that perspective that Chuck would be God.Having God with a sense of humour I can cope with, and you're right, it doesn't ever specify that God is all knowing, though one would think he is, if he'd planned this Apocalypse from time's beginning. Even then, we've got to ask ourselves why Chuck/God acted so unlike God when we had scenes of him alone. Just doesn't make sense to have Chuck as God. No!


Didn't Cas say he heard a rumor about objects that could locate God? Maybe it was just God's way of getting Cas out of the picture to let the boys do what they needed to do or maybe just the writers getting a powerful character out of the way.Maybe, but then if God wanted Cas out of the picture, why did he keep bringing him back to help them?


So Dean should feel as broken up over a kid he barely knows over Sam, who he practically raised? I'm sure he feels bad about Adam but I can see where he feels worse about Sam.I still think Adam should have got a mention.


I'm pretty sure that Crowley gave back Bobby his soul last episode but I'd have to go back and rewatch it, just to be sure.He didn't give it back. It was never fully explained why he took it in the first place.

LizzieAnne
May 15th, 2010, 02:33 AM
As soon as the ep came on with the history of the Impala I thought…uh-oh…were going to be getting a totally different kind of finale here. I don’t think I can bear it!

But what we got what a totally mind blowing piece that I’m still getting my head around.

I’ve only watched it once, and I've had a sleep, so at this point, it’s my first impression.

My heart was in my mouth through it all.

When Sam was saying his goodbyes. I could only think that the guys should have one of their hugs…go on..hug..hug, hug why don't you!!! Gah! I hate you Kripke.

Skipping to the end:

I think at the point in the field with Lucifer and Michael..…destiny /fate was put aside and even God didn’t know how it was going to turn out. I’m thinking that this was the whole point.

The only thing that kept Dean alive was the love the guys have for each other and that love/family was the ONLY thing in the end that freed them from their destiny and the Apocalypse. I reckon Sam saying 'Yes' and sacrificing himself was always going to happen, as was Dean always saying 'No.' That was why the angels tried everything they could to persuade Dean to change his mind.

This was in total contrast to Lucifer and Michael…Lucifer - spoilt, self indulgent & twisted ( using his freewill) and Michael - cold, heartless and obedient (towing the party line) . No wonder God decided he preferred humans.

Fantastic story but I’m still feeling numb by it all.

Chuck being God? Haven’t quite absorbed that yet. It maybe a case of the writers taking liberties here just because they can. But on the other hand why should we think that God wouldn’t have some human failings if he chose to take human form…maybe that’s the point…maybe that was why he did it…to understand the human condition while he kept an eye on the Winchesters, while the whole sorry mess played out. That’s how I like to see it. But why didn’t he know about the hoarding of toilet paper in the other future? That's what I want to know. :P

The things I loved:

The scene when Sam said ‘Yes‘… when Lucifer said he knew about the rings…just plain scary for them both.

Sam popping off those demons.

Lucifer was looking suitably worn around the edges.

The confrontation between Sam and Lucifer!Sam…all kinds of awesome. Jared did a totally incredible job there.

Always the music.

Dean riding the Impala into battle.

Lucifer!Sam killing Cas and Bobby..I nearly died at that.

Lucifer!Sam beating the cr*p out of Dean and then he sees the toy soldier in the ashtray. The playback of the seasons was wonderful.

Cas coming back and healing Dean. I think I was holding my breath until that happened.

Any kind of criticism of it would be that it felt rushed and should have been much longer. I wanted more!

starg8fans
May 15th, 2010, 05:51 AM
He didn't give it back. It was never fully explained why he took it in the first place.

The way I understood it Crowley needed something for the ritual that would help him locate Death that he couldn't get without paying a soul for it, so he needed Bobby to ask for whatever it was by making a deal. I guess this falls under the 'red tape' both the YED and Zachariah mentioned. I think it's really funny to imagine heaven and hell ruled by bureaucracy.


Chuck being God? Haven’t quite absorbed that yet. It maybe a case of the writers taking liberties here just because they can. But on the other hand why should we think that God wouldn’t have some human failings if he chose to take human form…maybe that’s the point…maybe that was why he did it…to understand the human condition while he kept an eye on the Winchesters, while the whole sorry mess played out. That’s how I like to see it. But why didn’t he know about the hoarding of toilet paper in the other future? That's what I want to know. :P


Having God with a sense of humour I can cope with, and you're right, it doesn't ever specify that God is all knowing, though one would think he is, if he'd planned this Apocalypse from time's beginning. Even then, we've got to ask ourselves why Chuck/God acted so unlike God when we had scenes of him alone. Just doesn't make sense to have Chuck as God. No!

I guess God taking on the role of Chuck was like Gabriel getting his 'witness protection' as the Trickster/Loki. He too was acting the part even when he was on his own (remember in Tall Tales when he conjured up the dessert buffet and the two scantily clad girls), so why wouldn't God stay in character? I would even go so far as to say he had to stay in character since the angels certainly had an eye on their 'prophet' and would have noticed it if he acted OOC.


The confrontation between Sam and Lucifer!Sam…all kinds of awesome. Jared did a totally incredible job there.

It was about time Jared got a chance to excel at a double role, after Jensen had been able to show off his acting skills with playing off himself twice.


Any kind of criticism of it would be that it felt rushed and should have been much longer. I wanted more!

I agree. I guess they were aiming for a finale three-parter, but they could - or should - have spun it out over a few more eps.

LizzieAnne
May 15th, 2010, 09:23 AM
I guess God taking on the role of Chuck was like Gabriel getting his 'witness protection' as the Trickster/Loki. He too was acting the part even when he was on his own (remember in Tall Tales when he conjured up the dessert buffet and the two scantily clad girls), so why wouldn't God stay in character? I would even go so far as to say he had to stay in character since the angels certainly had an eye on their 'prophet' and would have noticed it if he acted OOC.



I like that idea, it makes sense. Especially as at the end when everything was done and dusted Chuck was dressed in white and had a totally different look to him just before he disappeared.

LoneStar1836
May 15th, 2010, 09:36 AM
Any kind of criticism of it would be that it felt rushed and should have been much longer. I wanted more!


I agree. I guess they were aiming for a finale three-parter, but they could - or should - have spun it out over a few more eps.I agree on all points as well. They should have started working towards the finale earlier. The last few eps felt rushed for me as well. But I think they did well on this one and got in the points they needed to hit to make it work for me.

flameling
May 15th, 2010, 10:12 AM
The biggest thing I'm seeing here is complaints about chuck being God. I think it makes perfect sense for a few reasons:
1). The entire author writing the book comparison
2). What better way does God have to subtly influence events? I think he knew that being a prophet would give him the authority that would make the boy's listen to him. I also think that he was always on Sam and Dean's side, trying to help them along the way, help them the pass the test but never helped them cheat directly.
3). There's a few ways to take the personality. Witness Protection deal was already pointed out so I shall say he was always like that. Lucifer hated us because we were flawed but it seems that that is why God loves us. If one has ever listened to religous figures you'd hear that God made us in his image. If we take that logic it makes perfect sense for him to be flawed because we to are flawed.
Personally I think the last five years was God's plan but he knew certain things would have to be pushed in certain directions.

kennythewraith
May 15th, 2010, 02:23 PM
the only thing that bothered me was that it really felt like this was the series finale and not a season finale.im so glad it got picked up for another year,this is my favorite show but Swan Song was the perfect series finale for this show and yet it wont be that and if 6 is the end watever the finale is,i honeslty dont believe it will be as good as Swan Song would have been.
but enough of my whining...i believe Chuck might have been god hiding in a prophet and simply did a great job fooling everyone by acting like the real Chuck.which explains his still having an archangel protector,his odd and ungod like behavior.

Jeffer
May 15th, 2010, 04:38 PM
the only thing that bothered me was that it really felt like this was the series finale and not a season finale.im so glad it got picked up for another year,this is my favorite show but Swan Song was the perfect series finale for this show and yet it wont be that and if 6 is the end watever the finale is,i honeslty dont believe it will be as good as Swan Song would have been.
but enough of my whining...i believe Chuck might have been god hiding in a prophet and simply did a great job fooling everyone by acting like the real Chuck.which explains his still having an archangel protector,his odd and ungod like behavior.

I couldn't agree more if season 6 is the dumbs which i REALLY REALLY hope its not I will forever remember this as the series finale

kennythewraith
May 15th, 2010, 05:24 PM
I couldn't agree more if season 6 is the dumbs which i REALLY REALLY hope its not I will forever remember this as the series finale

i dont think season 6 will be bad at all.all the major writers are staying,krpke may have stepped down as showrunner but he says he will still be heavily involved in the creative process.i will give kripke credit for not changing the episode when they found out about the season 6pickup,well except sam popping up at the end probably was added for that reason.

the fifth man
May 15th, 2010, 06:04 PM
i dont think season 6 will be bad at all.all the major writers are staying,krpke may have stepped down as showrunner but he says he will still be heavily involved in the creative process.i will give kripke credit for not changing the episode when they found out about the season 6pickup,well except sam popping up at the end probably was added for that reason.

I think so too. That only makes sense.

the fifth man
May 15th, 2010, 06:05 PM
I couldn't agree more if season 6 is the dumbs which i REALLY REALLY hope its not I will forever remember this as the series finale

I really don't think we have to worry about that. Not with this show's track record.

Krisz
May 15th, 2010, 06:07 PM
A great ending and it would have been a perfect end to the series if that was to be the case. I wouldn't have expected anything less from SN.

I just loved the way the whole thing was set up, we get a wonderful recap of the events that brought the two brothers to this point, it made it all the more poignant with how they were prepared to sacrifice themselves to save the world.

At first glance I thought that Chuck was God in the end, but I just can't help thinking that this being SN it has to be someone we would never have expected. With Sam turning up at the end I'm just going to be ridiculous and say that Sam was God all the time. He really has been at the centre of things throughout the series and the catalyst for all the events, as if it really was God testing the faith and resolve of all his creations; angels, demons and humans alike, keeping the balance amongst them.

This is what I love about SN, so full of surprises and I can speculate to my heart's content. I can't wait to see what happens in S6.

Crichiel
May 15th, 2010, 07:05 PM
*walks in shaking head*....I....but the.....:mad:*splutter splutter seething*:mad:...with the...and ugh!...and how they.....I can't...grrr!....*shakes fists at the heavens*

Sorry. Still too upset, I don't want to say anything now that I might regret later (because there were some moments of brilliance in here). I need a few weeks to cool off and then hopefully I can articulate my disappointment in a more objective and articulate fashion.

*exit, stage left, head downcast, a quiet sobbing is heard* :(

*runs back in for a second* BUT...I WILL say this: I am glad this isn't the last episode, because I wouldn't have been content at all. Jensen has said more than once that when all is said and done and the show is over, he doesn't want the 'happily ever after' for Dean. He hopes that Dean will go out in a blaze of glory, preferably in the Impala where their remains are indistinguishable from each other, and personally, I agree. THAT'S the kind of hero's ending for me!! :cool:

Trig
May 16th, 2010, 10:05 AM
I dont want there to be a season 6..
The story was meant to be 5 seasons wasnt it?

Why ruin it with a season 6?

LizzieAnne
May 16th, 2010, 11:14 AM
*walks in shaking head*....I....but the.....:mad:*splutter splutter seething*:mad:...with the...and ugh!...and how they.....I can't...grrr!....*shakes fists at the heavens*

Sorry. Still too upset, I don't want to say anything now that I might regret later (because there were some moments of brilliance in here). I need a few weeks to cool off and then hopefully I can articulate my disappointment in a more objective and articulate fashion.

*exit, stage left, head downcast, a quiet sobbing is heard* :(

*runs back in for a second* BUT...I WILL say this: I am glad this isn't the last episode, because I wouldn't have been content at all. Jensen has said more than once that when all is said and done and the show is over, he doesn't want the 'happily ever after' for Dean. He hopes that Dean will go out in a blaze of glory, preferably in the Impala where their remains are indistinguishable from each other, and personally, I agree. THAT'S the kind of hero's ending for me!! :cool:

I do understand what you mean by the ending...and although I was OK with it, even though I still think Lisa came out of nowhere, I reckon that some of it was for the benefit of a Season 6.
And if it were the end of the series finale, and I could have chosen the ending myself, it would have been Sam and Dean going into the cage together in a blaze of glory. Or if you prefer they could be in the Impala and drive it into the Pit ..I'm OK with that as well. :D



I dont want there to be a season 6..
The story was meant to be 5 seasons wasnt it?

Why ruin it with a season 6?

I can understand after such a big story arc that you might think that but another season doesn't necessarily = ruin. Kripke had his vision of 5 years but he didn't reckon on it becoming so successful...so why finish the show now when so many more people are enjoying it. So here we are with another Season coming. I can't wait.

kennythewraith
May 16th, 2010, 04:13 PM
I dont want there to be a season 6..
The story was meant to be 5 seasons wasnt it?

Why ruin it with a season 6?

they arent ruining it wit a season 6.they ended the main arc after five seasons because thats wat kpkie had envisioned for the storyline if thy had extended the apocalypse storyline into next year then they would have ruined it.just wait and see some eps of season 6 before we all start saying its "jumping the shark' or ruined :)

Jill_Ion
May 16th, 2010, 05:49 PM
I just finished watching Swan Song (and am half-watching SG1 Watergate), so my thoughts might be a bit disjointed.

This was a less action/violence ep than I expected, which is good for me because I was dreading a gory episode.

I really like how Jared picked up the mannerisms Mark Pellegrino brought to the Lucifer character and brought them forth when Sam was possessed.

The pieces about the Impala were very nice - made the ending make sense. Almost their entire lives were wrapped around that car - it was a touchstone for all of Sam's memory of family/Dean. :)

I was expecting Bobby to die. Actually, I've been expecting Bobby to die every season. I'm glad he survived so long, but I'm not sure how I feel about him being resurrected. Obviously, I'm happy he's alive, but it kind of felt weird, like cheating his sacrifice.

I wasn't expecting Cas to be blown up - great effect, but I have less of a problem with him returning if he was brought back as a higher level angel. The question would be why was he deemed good/important/whatever enough to be brought back?

I've never been pleased with the idea of Sam facing off with Adam. The scene was well acted and was interesting - Lucifer tempting Michael - but it wasn't as epic as it would've been with Sam v. Dean. Of course, then the end would've had to have been totally different, so que sera sera.

I think they got the point across about getting the demon blood without being gory, but it still was intense.

When I saw the ending with Chuck, I thought he ascended to Heaven. If the show had ended with this episode, I could easily see Chuck = God.

I didn't mind the nice family scene with Dean cuz even if the show had ended, I wouldn't expect his life would be BBQs and ballgames. The spooky ending with Sam staring at the house was cool.

I hope S6 maintains focus and direction. This season felt a little scattered with lots of false trails and endings to the overall arc.

Trig
May 17th, 2010, 01:27 AM
I can understand after such a big story arc that you might think that but another season doesn't necessarily = ruin. Kripke had his vision of 5 years but he didn't reckon on it becoming so successful...so why finish the show now when so many more people are enjoying it. So here we are with another Season coming. I can't wait.

Yeah but now Kripke has stepped aside and imho that'll change the dynamic of the show, maybe not so much in s6 but if it goes to 7 or more then I bet it takes a nose dive..


On a seperate side, I think it was Sam stood there at the end..
Question is what does he do, we already know from the narration that Bobby and Dean dont see eachother for a while. The question is where does Sam fit in now, does he leave his brother alone to the life he wanted him to have, I think he would, Dean has always been the warrior and Sam think's he deserves that life after everything he has been through, as such a s6 would ruin the ending of s5 if they get back together and carry on hunting, no bobby (at least for a while) no Castiel, no apocalypse, so where do they go now?
The other question is, how did Sam get out and where are Lucifer and Michael...

starg8fans
May 17th, 2010, 02:33 AM
I just finished watching Swan Song (and am half-watching SG1 Watergate), so my thoughts might be a bit disjointed.

This was a less action/violence ep than I expected, which is good for me because I was dreading a gory episode.

I really like how Jared picked up the mannerisms Mark Pellegrino brought to the Lucifer character and brought them forth when Sam was possessed.

The pieces about the Impala were very nice - made the ending make sense. Almost their entire lives were wrapped around that car - it was a touchstone for all of Sam's memory of family/Dean. :)

Totally agree with all of the above.


I was expecting Bobby to die. Actually, I've been expecting Bobby to die every season. I'm glad he survived so long, but I'm not sure how I feel about him being resurrected. Obviously, I'm happy he's alive, but it kind of felt weird, like cheating his sacrifice.

I wasn't expecting Cas to be blown up - great effect, but I have less of a problem with him returning if he was brought back as a higher level angel. The question would be why was he deemed good/important/whatever enough to be brought back?

I felt a bit of a letdown myself that they were both resurrected. Don't get me wrong, I love both characters, but somehow it was too much of a good thing.


Yeah but now Kripke has stepped aside and imho that'll change the dynamic of the show, maybe not so much in s6 but if it goes to 7 or more then I bet it takes a nose dive..

Even though Kripke was the genius who conceived the show and these awesome five seasons, I think he has a great pool of writers and directors by now who really care about the show and can carry on his vision. Of course it's not gonna be the same thing, because the whole demon blood/angel/fate arch is over. I'm still confident that they will come up with something, as they said, smaller and more intimate that will still be a joy to watch.


On a seperate side, I think it was Sam stood there at the end..
Question is what does he do, we already know from the narration that Bobby and Dean dont see eachother for a while. The question is where does Sam fit in now, does he leave his brother alone to the life he wanted him to have, I think he would, Dean has always been the warrior and Sam think's he deserves that life after everything he has been through, as such a s6 would ruin the ending of s5 if they get back together and carry on hunting, no bobby (at least for a while) no Castiel, no apocalypse, so where do they go now?
The other question is, how did Sam get out and where are Lucifer and Michael...

I also think it was Sam. He was only the vessel, so Lucifer doesn't need him in the Pit, and if God was able to resurrect Cas with even more powers, and in his original vessel, of course he could pull Sam's body out of the cage and/or put it together again.

What I could imagine for S6 is Sam going back to being a hunter, maybe together with Bobby. They would keep this fact from Dean as long as possible - hence he won't see Bobby for quite a while - but once he finds out he'll join them for special cases that are too big for two guys to handle. Sam has said repeatedly that the 'apple pie life' is not what he craves anymore, but they would give Dean - who has grown tired of the life over the last seasons - a chance at living it at least most of the time.

Also, who knows, S6 could be a series of stand-alone timestamps for earlier seasons, tying up some loose ends. It doesn't necessarily have to go on after the Apocalypse.

boyd22
July 17th, 2010, 08:21 PM
I'm relatively new to this series, so my opinion doesn't mean much. But when this series does come to an end, i think the best ending would be the brother's in the Impala going out and doing what they do best, hunting things. It would give some closure and leave it open to be expanded on later.

starg8fans
July 17th, 2010, 11:03 PM
I'm relatively new to this series, so my opinion doesn't mean much. But when this series does come to an end, i think the best ending would be the brother's in the Impala going out and doing what they do best, hunting things. It would give some closure and leave it open to be expanded on later.

Hello and welcome! If you haven't seen all of it, you're in for a treat.

You're right, after the first couple of seasons that would have been the preferred ending. But in the later ones a lot will change and there will be issues raised that would make such an end somewhat anticlimactic. For what it's worth - and sorry if I'm telling you things you already know - this was supposed to be the end of the show's story arch the way its creator Eric Kripke envisioned it. And IMHO it was without Sam showing up in the end again. He likes to do the unexpected, and to end this with Dean living the apple pie life and Sam sacrificing himself for him (and all of humanity) is just the kind of twist I would expect from him. Plus it nicely illustrated the long way the boys have come since a gung-ho young hunter arrived in Stanford to lure his geeky brother away from college for a few days.

the fifth man
July 18th, 2010, 06:41 PM
Hello and welcome! If you haven't seen all of it, you're in for a treat.

You're right, after the first couple of seasons that would have been the preferred ending. But in the later ones a lot will change and there will be issues raised that would make such an end somewhat anticlimactic. For what it's worth - and sorry if I'm telling you things you already know - this was supposed to be the end of the show's story arch the way its creator Eric Kripke envisioned it. And IMHO it was without Sam showing up in the end again. He likes to do the unexpected, and to end this with Dean living the apple pie life and Sam sacrificing himself for him (and all of humanity) is just the kind of twist I would expect from him. Plus it nicely illustrated the long way the boys have come since a gung-ho young hunter arrived in Stanford to lure his geeky brother away from college for a few days.

Very nicely put. I totally agree.

starg8fans
July 19th, 2010, 07:15 AM
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