PDA

View Full Version : 'Pain' (117) General Discussion



Pages : [1] 2

GateWorld
May 2nd, 2010, 01:04 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/117.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/117.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON ONE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/117.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">PAIN</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 117</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
The ship's crew is plagued by hallucinations that manifest their fears and desires.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/117.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

s09119
May 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM
So, the acting was great, the effects were beautiful, and the lasting impact on the characters was interesting... but the plot itself was a little cliche. I would have liked to see a more original reason for the hallucinations, and some moments were a little awkward. Why did Greer hesitate so long if he was so under the influence of the tick? Why was Rush so unable to realize it wasn't real when he's usually so grounded in logic and reasoning and knew what was going on?

Overall, I give it **, maybe **1/2, but no more. A little disappointing after the last string of fantastic episodes.

Otarush
May 14th, 2010, 06:08 PM
Okay, I liked it. It felt- well - "Stargate-y", for lack of a better term. I could see roughly that plot happening in any Stargate show or Star Trek or whatever (I think some of the elements have been used before), but that's not a bad thing. It was an enjoyable period of time, and that's all I ask for from my TV shows.

Random observations:
Was it just me, or did anyone else think the lamps were the cause of the crazy at first? That, and Rush reminded me a lot of Zelenka in Tabula Rasa, if only for the whole 'crazy scientist with a pipe proves to be surprisingly formidable' thing.

Replicator Todd
May 14th, 2010, 06:09 PM
I was a little disappointed by this episode, in fact I will say the best part of the episode was seeing the blue aliens again. I feel like I would of liked this episode more if it took place in season 2. I liked it a little more than last week's episode though. I really enjoyed the way the episode ended.

EllieVee
May 14th, 2010, 06:10 PM
Rush and a pipe. That sounds very ... Glaswegian. http://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/whee.gif

joeynox
May 14th, 2010, 06:11 PM
Sgu has great actors and I love that the characters are the focus of the show. I feel bad for lt James she is in love with Scott and knows he does t want her. I wish they would show a flash back about James .

Rush is deathly afraid of being taken again
and his acting is top notch.

I can't stand shooter mcgavin

i liked the episode but after reading tweets from the cast stating how crazy the episode was and seeing previews showing the craziness I was let down a little. I expected more, more fights or something.what would have made this episode epic would have been if the smurfs actually boarded the ****. Overall 3 1/2 / 5

EllieVee
May 14th, 2010, 06:13 PM
I can't stand shooter mcgavin

Who?

Briangate78
May 14th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Who?

Christopher Mcdonald played Shooter McGavin in the movie Happy Gilmore. lol.

Briangate78
May 14th, 2010, 06:17 PM
Anyway, I liked this ep a lot. It felt like Stargate and even used a Stargate plot. So all happy here they are sticking with the SG roots. Had a mix feeling of Doppleganger and Phantoms. Scott's Hallucination reminded me of Carter's Hallucination in "Grace".

Carl, you have made up for the disaster known as "Life". Props to you sir! :p

I gave the ep a 8.5/10, was orginally higher but was dissapointed that the scene we saw in the MGM trailer with the aliens coming through the Stargate was this ep.

Oh and the music has been really awful. They should get like Lifehouse, or maybe even a Bon Jovi song or something......well that would be the entire budget for the ep. lol.

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 06:17 PM
I felt they butchered the plot to make room for these character moments. While the character moments gave us great insight into character's subconscious the plot behind it was so weak. More later.

Replicator Todd
May 14th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Anyway, I liked this ep a lot. It felt like Stargate and even used a Stargate plot. So all happy here they are sticking with the SG roots. Had a mix feeling of Doppleganger and Phantoms. Scott's Hallucination reminded me of Carter's Hallucination in "Grace".

Carl, you have made up for the disaster known as "Life". Props to you sir! :p

Unfortunately, I only liked this a little bit more than "Life." :( I'm trying, I really am.

FoX-1028
May 14th, 2010, 06:19 PM
It was a good episode 4/5, i wasnt exited for this one though... im really looking forward for Subversion & Incursion!
Things i liked:
-The crew killing themselves lol
-Rush Screaming hahahaha
-Finally saw the aliens again since "Space" (was an hallucination though)
-Wray almost got killed, dammit Greer! just shoot her!
-Mc Boobies (James) :D
-they didnt used the comm stones to visit someone on Earth :D
Didnt liked:
-Music montages.. geez, 2 in one episode?! cmon...
-Aliens on Destiny an hallucination :(
-Wray didnt died :(

Otarush
May 14th, 2010, 06:28 PM
...but was dissapointed that the scene we saw in the MGM trailer with the aliens coming through the Stargate was this ep.

WORD. I was looking forward to an awesome shipboard battle. I mean, there was the bit with Wray and Rush and Greer this episode, but that doesn't make up for it. Trailers lie :(

Gallienus
May 14th, 2010, 06:29 PM
I liked this more than Sabotage, it was fairly cliche I suppose but it wasn't bad and I can say I was mildly entertained. I guess the best part of the episode was the lead in at the end to the following episode. Not a good sign, but like I said, this was just one of those one-off episodes that struck me as okay, not great, not terrible, just okay.

HaMm3r
May 14th, 2010, 06:34 PM
I'll have to watch this one another time or two, before I can say whether I truly liked it or not. Right now it feels kind of flat. There's was nothing extraordinary about the story. Having characters face their fears has been done so many times and this wasn't much a fresh, innovative take on the concept. I'm hoping there are some subtleties that I missed on the first go, to turn it around for me.

I agree that the BA's "returning" that way was a huge let down, but i liked that Wray is even more pissed at Greer now. Other than that, the episode pretty much reset everything at the end.

Makenshi
May 14th, 2010, 06:56 PM
Pretty decent Stargaty episode, I loved Rush stabbing Wray and 'piping' everyone else. BUT! My goddam* aliens were a psycho thingo so this is ep receives a brutal 2/5 from me ¬¬

Ok, 3/5 thanks to Rush also screaming like a girl! :D

the_raven
May 14th, 2010, 06:58 PM
Random observations:
Was it just me, or did anyone else think the lamps were the cause of the crazy at first? That, and Rush reminded me a lot of Zelenka in Tabula Rasa, if only for the whole 'crazy scientist with a pipe proves to be surprisingly formidable' thing.

Haha, nope, I totally was blaming it on the lamps! They seemed to focus in on them for a second or two and then go on from there. Other than that though...this episode was ZZZZZ. Was reading news websites for half the time and still able to follow quite fine; nothing really held my interest. The only part I actually got somewhat excited about was near the end with Greer. Another low point in the roller coaster of quality that is SGU. That roller coaster reminds me of another show I used to like (psst: I'm looking at you BSG!).

TK Cale
May 14th, 2010, 07:01 PM
To me I find that the episode doesn't really fit with the previous one. Aren't they in the void between galaxies and wouldn't the last planet they where one the one w/ the giant spiders? More people would have ticks. Other than that I think its just an OK episode. I like the idea about the hallucinations being about trying to get the victims isolated too.

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 07:13 PM
This episode was fun to watch, but nothing to write home about if you know what I mean....next

JayShadow
May 14th, 2010, 07:17 PM
Having characters face their fears has been done so many times and this wasn't much a fresh, innovative take on the concept.While the concept wasn't innovative, the thing that set this episode apart from other 'face your fear' scenarios is that we've seen these fears before. Some might think of it as a retread, but that's what I liked about it. Usually an episode like this introduces people's fears, deals with them, then are never heard of again. Many of the issues in this episode are ongoing issues and to me it legitimized originally seeing them the first time. Many of those previous episodes felt like "and this is why this person is messed up" and we'd never see them again.

Not a 10/10 episode or anything, but I appreciate what it was doing. In some ways it felt like a recap of what the characters have been through before going into the final stretch of the season.

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 07:18 PM
but was dissapointed that the scene we saw in the MGM trailer with the aliens coming through the Stargate was this ep.
.

same here i thought we would see it in "incursion"

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 07:20 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
I’m not the greatest fan of lets butcher the plot so we can have good character moments. So as you can imagine Pain is not high on my list of favorite Stargate Universe episodes. However that does not mean the episode is a bad one. Just that it could have been better. Do not get me wrong. Seeing the fears and pain of the Destiny crew was top notch. I just felt that the notion of how these hallucinations occur was quite weak. I’m going to do things a little different this week. Instead of reviewing in my normal linear scene by scene fashion I will just go by each character’s hallucination (with major emphasis on Greer) and wrap up with the rushed plot.

I suppose we should start with James and her hallucination of having sex with Scott and then killing him. To me this hallucination points that despite James showing a tough shell she is hurting on the inside. She is an emotional wreck and feels betrayed by Scott. I think James saw the relationship with Scott and something worthwhile and meaningful while obviously Scott saw it nothing more as casual sex. So in rage she kills him. Because as I said earlier I think these shows that James is emotionally sad and angry over that whole ordeal with Scott. She does not who she is.

Next we move on to Volkner who is apparently claustrophobic. There is no deep analysis for this one. It’s quite apparent that him not being able to go through the doors that Volkner does not like small spaces. It’s quite a common phenomenon for people.

Now about Scott and seeing his son roaming around the ships points actually to two pains he has. One even though his ex-girlfriend kept the child a secret for Scott he still feels guilty about not seeing. Even though there was nothing Scott could he feels guilty none the less about not being able to spend those early years with his child. That is pain number 1. Now pain number 2 is very much related to this. The 2nd pain is related that the fear Scott may never be able to get home to actually see his son. So these two statements can be nicely generalized in that Scott’s pain is the inability to know who his son is. Although I have to ask don’t you think the priest who drank himself to death would have been a much better pain then Scott’s son?

If you are going to bring back an accomplished actor back to Christopher McDonald I think you better have some accomplished scenes to use him in. I’m not quite sure if that is what we got in this episode. I’m not willing to say yes or no. I don’t know we needed to bring back such an accomplished actor to show that Chloe’s biggest pain is when her father died. I think we knew how grief stricken his death made her. I’m not trying to belittle that since speaking from experience that pain never goes away but I don’t know if the scenes with him worth it. You know what I take it back. I forget Chloe’s hesitation to go with Eli and Scott to the infirmary. That shows and emphasis just how much Chloe loved her father and how hard it is to lose him. Christopher McDonald’s guest appearance was defiantly worth.

I saved Rush and Greer’s hallucinations last for a reason. But first we have to talk about the plot and how TJ finds a solution to this hallucination problem. The whole story of what is causing the hallucination and how to stop was just too simple. Maybe it because I’m medical major at school (Nuclear Medicine to be exact) and I actually know within reason how the brain works but I find it hard to believe an insect could dig into your neck and mess around with your limbic system. It seems quite far fetched that a creature that big could interact with neural tissue which is quite microscopic. Equally hard to believe is the notion is look we just throw some anesthesia on the bugs and we can just pull them out with no brain damage. I’m sorry I just don’t buy it. A creature attached to the brain that is forcibly removes would cause some of kind of brain damange when they are actually removed. Like I said before it seems this plot was butchered and twisted to fit the character moment of their fears.

Now that my opinion of the plot is expressed I think my view of Young hunting down Greer and his hallucination will make more sense. But first we have to talk about Rush and his fear. This one is another obvious and self-exclusionary one. Which is quite strange as Rush is not usually so easy to describe. Anyway, with Rush envisioning himself in a water tank followed by Rush imaging himself chasing the blue aliens around Destiny its quite obvious Rush’s biggest pain is being captured and dissected by those aliens. Can not really say I blame him. If aliens cut me open and tortured me to the extent that they tortured Rush I’d probably be scared too.

At first I thought Greer’s biggest pain (or fear) was that another mutiny was going to occur. That was why he was chasing Wray and Rush. But that scene showing Greer’s father painted another picture. Greer’s biggest pain I think (despite him being a bitter drunk) is letting his father down. Greer I think feels somewhat responsible for his father dying. To that end Greer views Young as a father figure. Which is why he was chasing Wray and Rush because in this hallucinate state Greer thinks there would be less pain for Young to deal with. So now Greer is helping his father figure something he could not do for his real father. Yes that is completely messed up in reality but we all know how hallucinations mess with a person’s mind.

Overpowering Greer seems quite simplistic not to mention convent just as he was about to shoot Wray. As I have said I am not too impressed with the actual story. It was just too easy to halt him before he got to Wray. Speaking of Wray the look of her face as she walked past Greer shows how cold she is going to leave this instance over his head. This is the end of my “meh” review of Pain. I hope the change in reviewing wasn’t too hard for you people.

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 07:21 PM
Okay, I liked it. It felt- well - "Stargate-y", for lack of a better term. I could see roughly that plot happening in any Stargate show or Star Trek or whatever (I think some of the elements have been used before), but that's not a bad thing. It was an enjoyable period of time, and that's all I ask for from my TV shows.

Random observations:
Was it just me, or did anyone else think the lamps were the cause of the crazy at first? That, and Rush reminded me a lot of Zelenka in Tabula Rasa, if only for the whole 'crazy scientist with a pipe proves to be surprisingly formidable' thing.

I too was convinced it was the lamps. They focused on them several times early on.

I'm not sure how I feel about this episode's plot. I mean, it didn't really change the situation any aboard Destiny, which is something I always am looking forward to. Or maybe it did, and we just don't know how yet. I'm wondering what it was that Dr. Rush was going to tell Wray about; something to do with Amanda, I'm fairly sure. Shame that we didn't get to find out.
But overall, good effects, and good to see the subconcious of the characters, although I was not at all surprised by anything that any of them did. I was a little shocked at how much of a badass Rush could be using implemented weapons like a screwdriver or a pipe. He also is apparently very good at outwitting and outrunning people. Hopefully this fact will come into play in the future, I loved seeing him in action and kinda felt bad that he was back at his console by the end of the episode.

Reilly doesn't get enough scenes. He's just hilarious. The bug spray comment, lol. ;)

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 14th, 2010, 07:28 PM
A great bunch of moments show.

I found it interesting that, of all of their experiences, only Chloe apparently had a somewhat positive experience, getting to talk to her father one last time, while accepting that it wasn't real, especially considering that for everyone else, it was completely real. To play off of that little moment, she and Young had a moment while they were walking down the hall and it looks like Young is becoming paternal towards someone else. I really felt for Eli, torn between keeping a confidence and helping Scott get her to the infirmary. there's something to be said for both of those men helping each other to get her there.

I was hoping this would be a more TJ-centric role and, while we saw her a lot, we didn't get to see much of her, if that makes sense. There was a lovely little moment between her and Young, when both of them were talking about the same thing - concern for her condition - while not coming right out and saying it. It was sweet and not over the top. They're both being professional but the care is still there. I also liked that he didn't leave her there alone until he had to.

Poor Scott was just a mess all over, between getting his imaginary skull bashed in and chasing his son...sigh. There's a shared experience with Chloe where neither wanted to really have the visions go away, that was sad.

Rush plays terror really, really well. I found it interesting that when he was in trouble, it was Col. Young that he called first.

Greer, damn. I guess spiders and tunnels are going to seem like a breeze after dealing with the biggie of failure!

With Volker, I didn't see it so much as claustrophobia as being trapped on Destiny with no way off and having the walls of the ship closing in around him.

Just had to watch the trailers for the next ep...why do I do that? Now I have a whole week to wait!

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 07:31 PM
So we get official confirmation that the Blue Aliens coming through the gate never actually happens, kind of a teaser let down.

ProclarushTaonasAt
May 14th, 2010, 07:31 PM
I liked this episode. I was particularly floored with Rush's new phobia of the Blues. I knew he was scared of them but I didn't know it was that deep rooted. It is definitely a change from SG1 and SGA where our heroes aren’t usually that afraid of the bad guys. Again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, Robert Carlyle’s acting is top notch. 3.5/5

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 07:35 PM
Rush plays terror really, really well. I found it interesting that when he was in trouble, it was Col. Young that he called first.



I noted that too. It makes sense on one level; call the man who is the boss of the men with guns when there are aliens on the ship. That's what I'd do. But I sat there trying to read a deeper meaning in it for several minutes, coming to the conclusion that Rush knows he can rely on Young, in most situations, to save the day.

Replicator Todd
May 14th, 2010, 07:35 PM
So we get official confirmation that the Blue Aliens coming through the gate never actually happens, kind of a teaser let down.

Indeed, a major let down. I'm let down so much that i'm kinda angry.

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 07:35 PM
A great bunch of moments show.

I found it interesting that, of all of their experiences, only Chloe apparently had a somewhat positive experience, getting to talk to her father one last time, while accepting that it wasn't real, especially considering that for everyone else, it was completely real. To play off of that little moment, she and Young had a moment while they were walking down the hall and it looks like Young is becoming paternal towards someone else. I really felt for Eli, torn between keeping a confidence and helping Scott get her to the infirmary. there's something to be said for both of those men helping each other to get her there.


I think that was the point. That the "ticks" create hallucination of what are painful memories. Even Chloe's was a painful memory because eventually she will lose him again

Shan Bruce Lee
May 14th, 2010, 07:37 PM
Is it just me or is James getting a lot more screen time lately? Not that I mind, I like the character.

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Is it just me or is James getting a lot more screen time lately? Not that I mind, I like the character.

She is, and on one hand I don't mind. On the other, characters like Eli, Scott, and Reiley seem neglected to me. We have a large cast, which makes for a complex show, and I like that. But I'd rather they stay focused on some of the characters we've already got a certain attachment to and interest in.

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 07:40 PM
Indeed, a major let down. I'm let down so much that i'm kinda angry.

I read enough spoilers to have guessed that was what was going to happen at this point, but I was hoping I was wrong. :mad:

s09119
May 14th, 2010, 07:41 PM
Indeed, a major let down. I'm let down so much that i'm kinda angry.

Angry? Really? It's only a television show.

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 07:42 PM
Is it just me or is James getting a lot more screen time lately? Not that I mind, I like the character.

they are writing for her now. as long as the writers don't keep up with the "i let col young down again" story it's fine.

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 07:42 PM
She is, and on one hand I don't mind. On the other, characters like Eli, Scott, and Reiley seem neglected to me. We have a large cast, which makes for a complex show, and I like that. But I'd rather they stay focused on some of the characters we've already got a certain attachment to and interest in.

Who is this we? Because for every character out there said character has it fans. The writers can't heavily focus alll of them,

Kaiphantom
May 14th, 2010, 07:43 PM
I realize they can't all be really good episodes, so I know we're gonna get a few of these. Like "Life" and "Faith" this episode really didn't do a whole lot. Gonna change up my review a bit, instead of going character by character, gonna list the likes and dislikes:

Likes -
- More of James and her unresolved feelings towards Scott; he really just did her and then jumped to Chloe, which is what the actor meant by seeing him at his worst.
- Rush with a pipe, taking down Greer and a few others; the man probably single-handily saved this episode with that one scene. :D
- I liked the implication at the end; Gate open "Do we send someone or not? Because we could end up with something worse than space ticks." And yet, despite them knowing that danger, they know they have to go anyway. Kind of emotionally touching, getting that hopelessness and desperation across in one scene; a perfect "show" instead of "tell" moment.

Dislikes -
- Scott and Chloe were predictable, Greer's paranoia was just plain awful. More of the "angry, black man" role, when his character has come so far.
- Rush's reactions, while a bit understandable, weren't very logical. he came across far too emotional instead of reasoning things out like he's done consistently since Day 1. (yes, not always for the better, but logically-based). I'll have to accept that the tick screwed with that, too.
- Speaking of ticks, that whole plot was rather weak; it was just a plot device to get some character moments, which is poor writing. You can get those character moments with a better plot.
- TWO &*^%$#@! MUSIC MONTAGES GAAAAH! I know they are putting them in to make SG seem more "hip" and "modern" but it comes off so out of place. Like your father trying to fit in with his son's teenage friends and failing badly. Or a white guy trying to be a black rapper. That, and the shaky cam, need to go. They... just... don't... FIT. Kudos on trying something new, guys, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEESE make them go away!
- Overall, the episode felt weak, and just kinda meh. I think I preferred "Life" more, as we got character moments there that actually tied well into the plot. But this isn't as bad as "Faith" so that's something.

And I think that sums it up. There was no Eli/Chloe kiss in this, so that particular scene from the trailer isn't a hallucination like I thought it might be. Based on some things I heard that cannot be discussed now, I think I know where and when it happens. I wonder if Chloe will find out about James and Scott, and if a blowup will push Chloe into finally seeing Eli as something better. Most women do eventually learn to drop the "bad boy" and realize that the "nice guy" is a better catch by the time they hit 30.

So, on an end note, I'll just say this: To ANY people at SG production, can you PLEASE stop the music montages? The shaky cam, I can probably stomach. But the music montages aren't working. I'll admit, one or two did, like the one at the end of Air Part 3; but the rest of them really look like your dad joining his son's friends and going, "Yo, what is up, my home boys? Can you dig it, dog? Do you like hanging at my crib? Let us go kick it!"

Meanwhile, the son is covering his face in shame, and the rest of his friends are laughing and the general feeling is one of awkwardness as dad tries to be cool and hip. I really, really, don't want dad to try and be hip, because he can't.

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 07:43 PM
Indeed, a major let down. I'm let down so much that i'm kinda angry.

i know we're all in pain :(

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 14th, 2010, 07:44 PM
I noted that too. It makes sense on one level; call the man who is the boss of the men with guns when there are aliens on the ship. That's what I'd do. But I sat there trying to read a deeper meaning in it for several minutes, coming to the conclusion that Rush knows he can rely on Young, in most situations, to save the day.That's very true; it's a positive moment that way.

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 07:44 PM
Angry? Really? It's only a television show.

Honestly, I relish the hours after the new show has aired. It's so nice to see people angry at the tv before we turn to our weekly activity of being furious with each other in the various threads. Though I have trouble seeing how this episode could be very controversial along those lines. :P

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 07:45 PM
Angry? Really? It's only a television show.

We're online on a Friday night discussing the show, obviously we're not the average fan...emotion is OK:mckay09:

Replicator Todd
May 14th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Angry? Really? It's only a television show.

Indeed it is, a television show i'm devoting my time to. To me, a TV show is so much more than a TV show.

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I realize they can't all be really good episodes, so I know we're gonna get a few of these. Like "Life" and "Faith" this episode really didn't do a whole lot. Gonna change up my review a bit, instead of going character by character, gonna list the likes and dislikes:

Likes -
- More of James and her unresolved feelings towards Scott; he really just did her and then jumped to Chloe, which is what the actor meant by seeing him at his worst.
- Rush with a pipe, taking down Greer and a few others; the man probably single-handily saved this episode with that one scene. :D
- I liked the implication at the end; Gate open "Do we send someone or not? Because we could end up with something worse than space ticks." And yet, despite them knowing that danger, they know they have to go anyway. Kind of emotionally touching, getting that hopelessness and desperation across in one scene; a perfect "show" instead of "tell" moment.

Dislikes -
- Scott and Chloe were predictable, Greer's paranoia was just plain awful. More of the "angry, black man" role, when his character has come so far.
- Rush's reactions, while a bit understandable, weren't very logical. he came across far too emotional instead of reasoning things out like he's done consistently since Day 1. (yes, not always for the better, but logically-based). I'll have to accept that the tick screwed with that, too.
- Speaking of ticks, that whole plot was rather weak; it was just a plot device to get some character moments, which is poor writing. You can get those character moments with a better plot.
- TWO &*^%$#@! MUSIC MONTAGES GAAAAH! I know they are putting them in to make SG seem more "hip" and "modern" but it comes off so out of place. Like your father trying to fit in with his son's teenage friends and failing badly. Or a white guy trying to be a black rapper. That, and the shaky cam, need to go. They... just... don't... FIT. Kudos on trying something new, guys, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEESE make them go away!
- Overall, the episode felt weak, and just kinda meh. I think I preferred "Life" more, as we got character moments there that actually tied well into the plot. But this isn't as bad as "Faith" so that's something.

And I think that sums it up. There was no Eli/Chloe kiss in this, so that particular scene from the trailer isn't a hallucination like I thought it might be. Based on some things I heard that cannot be discussed now, I think I know where and when it happens. I wonder if Chloe will find out about James and Scott, and if a blowup will push Chloe into finally seeing Eli as something better. Most women do eventually learn to drop the "bad boy" and realize that the "nice guy" is a better catch by the time they hit 30.

So, on an end note, I'll just say this: To ANY people at SG production, can you PLEASE stop the music montages? The shaky cam, I can probably stomach. But the music montages aren't working. I'll admit, one or two did, like the one at the end of Air Part 3; but the rest of them really look like your dad joining his son's friends and going, "Yo, what is up, my home boys? Can you dig it, dog? Do you like hanging at my crib? Let us go kick it!"

Meanwhile, the son is covering his face in shame, and the rest of his friends are laughing and the general feeling is one of awkwardness as dad tries to be cool and hip. I really, really, don't want dad to try and be hip, because he can't.

So with you on the montages. I grit my teeth every time, and I'll be damned if it wasn't TWICE this episode! I thought I was safe near the end but noooo....*sighs*
We should start a petition to send to TPTB: Please, for the love of a great show, no more montages. They just...don't work in space. They don't. That's it, that's all there is to it, and everytime I see Dr. Rush staring at his console while some sappy modern blues song is playing, I expect him to flip the camera off. It's certainly what I'm doing.

s09119
May 14th, 2010, 07:51 PM
So with you on the montages. I grit my teeth every time, and I'll be damned if it wasn't TWICE this episode! I thought I was safe near the end but noooo....*sighs*
We should start a petition to send to TPTB: Please, for the love of a great show, no more montages. They just...don't work in space. They don't. That's it, that's all there is to it, and everytime I see Dr. Rush staring at his console while some sappy modern blues song is playing, I expect him to flip the camera off. It's certainly what I'm doing.

There was only one montage in this episode. And I like them.

Kaiphantom
May 14th, 2010, 07:51 PM
So with you on the montages. I grit my teeth every time, and I'll be damned if it wasn't TWICE this episode! I thought I was safe near the end but noooo....*sighs*
We should start a petition to send to TPTB: Please, for the love of a great show, no more montages. They just...don't work in space. They don't. That's it, that's all there is to it, and everytime I see Dr. Rush staring at his console while some sappy modern blues song is playing, I expect him to flip the camera off. It's certainly what I'm doing.

Hmm, good idea. I'm gonna start a petition in the SGU General Discussion section shortly...

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 07:51 PM
I like the music and non-verbal scenes just showing some stuff happening on the ship, an easy way to wrap things up without much time and letting us make necessary assumptions...

ProclarushTaonasAt
May 14th, 2010, 07:52 PM
So with you on the montages. I grit my teeth every time, and I'll be damned if it wasn't TWICE this episode! I thought I was safe near the end but noooo....*sighs*
We should start a petition to send to TPTB: Please, for the love of a great show, no more montages. They just...don't work in space. They don't. That's it, that's all there is to it, and everytime I see Dr. Rush staring at his console while some sappy modern blues song is playing, I expect him to flip the camera off. It's certainly what I'm doing.

I don't remember this many montages in SG1 or SGA or any other show! There is one an episode (now two!). I think that they should just reduce the amount of montages because I liked some of them. Moderation is key.

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 07:53 PM
Indeed it is, a television show i'm devoting my time to. To me, a TV show is so much more than a TV show.

then we shall get you a girlfriend and a life. so you can relax

Kaiphantom
May 14th, 2010, 07:54 PM
There was only one montage in this episode. And I like them.

There were two, at the start and at the end. It may have been the same song (I don't recall), but it happened in two distinct places.

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 07:55 PM
There was only one montage in this episode. And I like them.
I counted two. One at the very beginning with James' hallucination. And another at the end right before they dial that planet

s09119
May 14th, 2010, 07:55 PM
I counted two. One at the very beginning with James' hallucination. And another at the end right before they dial that planet

The first was not a montage. There was only one musical montage.

ZeroPoint
May 14th, 2010, 07:57 PM
I thought on the last ep (Sabotage), they were about to go between galaxies and there was going to be a big empty space, with talk of rationing supplies until they arrive. At the end of this ep, they get out of FTL and find a planet. Did the time skip or what? It seems like the previous episode didn't happen.....

Major_Griff
May 14th, 2010, 07:57 PM
Yeah there were two songs, but only one montage.

Replicator Todd
May 14th, 2010, 07:57 PM
then we shall get you a girlfriend and a life. so you can relax

I don't want a girlfriend...yet.....

s09119
May 14th, 2010, 07:58 PM
I thought on the last ep (Sabotage), they were about to go between galaxies and there was going to be a big empty space, with talk of rationing supplies until they arrive. At the end of this ep, they get out of FTL and find a planet. Did the time skip or what? It seems like the previous episode didn't happen.....

While I wish they would have made it more clear, the repairs to the FTL drive made it many times more efficient, allowing them to cross the void in a relatively short timespan.

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 07:58 PM
I thought on the last ep (Sabotage), they were about to go between galaxies and there was going to be a big empty space, with talk of rationing supplies until they arrive. At the end of this ep, they get out of FTL and find a planet. Did the time skip or what? It seems like the previous episode didn't happen.....The conventional thinking is that we skipped that voyage because nothing big happened in those weeks

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 07:59 PM
The conventional thinking is that we skipped that voyage because nothing big happened in those weeks

it would have been to much like the void ep on ST: voyager

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 08:02 PM
The conventional thinking is that we skipped that voyage because nothing big happened in those weeks

Agreed, but they could have added something that allowed us to realize a few weeks or months had passed (TJ...)

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 08:02 PM
There was only one montage in this episode. And I like them.

Well, ok, sort of. But anyway, if you like them, that's fine. Just don't sign our petition. ;)

s09119
May 14th, 2010, 08:04 PM
Well, ok, sort of. But anyway, if you like them, that's fine. Just don't sign our petition. ;)

We're not allowed to have pro-only or anti-only threads anymore ;)

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 08:07 PM
I like the montages, but only when Alexi Murdoch or Rob Thomas is singing ;)

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 08:08 PM
I like the montages, but only when Alexi Murdoch or Rob Thomas is singing ;)

i want the beach boys. :D

Kaiphantom
May 14th, 2010, 08:12 PM
The first was not a montage. There was only one musical montage.

Depends on your personal view, but the first could very well be seen as one. A montage is a series of different shots; in the first case, it was a series of different shots of James and Scott having sex. The dictionary.com definition can be read either way. So people aren't wrong to say there were two musical montages in this episode.

Spimman
May 14th, 2010, 08:13 PM
i want the beach boys. :D

I wish they all could be alien galaxy girls...:confused:

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 08:15 PM
I wish they all could be alien galaxy girls...:confused:

hopefully eli would finally get some lovin

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 08:19 PM
Depends on your personal view, but the first could very well be seen as one. A montage is a series of different shots; in the first case, it was a series of different shots of James and Scott having sex. The dictionary.com definition can be read either way. So people aren't wrong to say there were two musical montages in this episode.

Oh no, this reminds me of when I had to go research military and maritime law during a raging debate about whether or not Rush and Wray committed mutiny. Once references are needed, the topic officially needs its own thread. ;)

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 08:21 PM
hopefully eli would finally get some lovin

He has to grow a pair first. :P

prion
May 14th, 2010, 08:21 PM
Oddly enough, I rather enjoyed this episode. Definitely wasn't perfect, but I sorta like eps where characters go insane as it gives you insight into what makes them tick.... Scott with guilt over his son, Chloe longing for her dad, Rush terrified of being abducted by the blue meanies, James with issues she's just gotta get over/fixed, and Greer, well, the man should not have a gun. Loose canon.

Alas, ticks are teensy so the assumption they got them all is as thin as tissue paper. Made me think of the Stargate version of Lyme Disease...

Eli, once again, the third wheel. Makes me wonder what he would have hallucinated....

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 08:24 PM
Eli, once again, the third wheel. Makes me wonder what he would have hallucinated....
My guess would be his HIV infected mother

ZeroPoint
May 14th, 2010, 08:28 PM
The conventional thinking is that we skipped that voyage because nothing big happened in those weeks

I understand what you're saying, but .....
Ugh. Okay, so character growth, investigation of more of Destiny, just STOPS for weeks......
Like so many shows, character growth can only happen on-screen

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 08:33 PM
BAG carried destiny across the void

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 08:34 PM
My guess would be his HIV infected mother

I have a feeling that perhaps we just don't know enough about Eli to be able to guess what his greatest fear is yet. Actually, while I'm sure his mom is near the top of the list, I'm thinking it's dying. Like in "Time," the whole conversation with Rush. Maybe not enough bad stuff has actually happened to Eli yet for us to get a powerful hallucination out of him?

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 08:35 PM
I understand what you're saying, but .....
Ugh. Okay, so character growth, investigation of more of Destiny, just STOPS for weeks......
Like so many shows, character growth can only happen on-screen
No but if they don't discover anything important its quite pointless. Plus we have no idea the length between galaxies

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 08:41 PM
No but if they don't discover anything important its quite pointless. Plus we have no idea the length between galaxies

We do know the length between galaxies, I'm pretty sure. Though, granted, not the specific length between the two in "Sabotage." Did you mean in general, or just in the show?

jelgate
May 14th, 2010, 08:43 PM
We do know the length between galaxies, I'm pretty sure. Though, granted, not the specific length between the two in "Sabotage." Did you mean in general, or just in the show?

Not with FTL engines. I don't remember Rush or anyone saying how long the voyage would take

Pharaoh Atem
May 14th, 2010, 08:44 PM
We do know the length between galaxies, I'm pretty sure. Though, granted, not the specific length between the two in "Sabotage." Did you mean in general, or just in the show?

the word massive was used more then once in sabotage to reference the desitence destiny would have to travel to reach point a to b

Daro
May 14th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Well, I believe Andromeda is about 500 million ly from the Milky Way. The average distance between stars is somewhere between five and ten ly. If Destiny were stopping at regular intervals, which it isn't, we could actually guage the time it'd take. Unfortunately, Destiny skips over many systems. Kind of frustrating, now that I think about it, that we don't know how long it took for them to cross the void. If for no other reason, than to figure out how close TJ is to popping. :P

Shan Bruce Lee
May 14th, 2010, 08:50 PM
I thought on the last ep (Sabotage), they were about to go between galaxies and there was going to be a big empty space, with talk of rationing supplies until they arrive. At the end of this ep, they get out of FTL and find a planet. Did the time skip or what? It seems like the previous episode didn't happen.....

They're in the new galaxy now.


I understand what you're saying, but .....
Ugh. Okay, so character growth, investigation of more of Destiny, just STOPS for weeks......
Like so many shows, character growth can only happen on-screen

They don't have to be between galaxies to do all that.

BobbyScars
May 14th, 2010, 09:17 PM
As a person who has rped a similar, well actually it was almost the exact same storyline aside from the ticks, I can tell you that it is not supposed to be about the plot itself, it is a device so that we can build on characters which I was expecting but got little of it. Although I loved the start of it, made you think that it was gonna give you some great fright right off the bat, problem is there wasnt much of that, they started out strong and finished weak(aside from Greer's father showing up egging him on, that was totally wicked :P ) but basically you have most of the infected under quarantine, only two are crazy and running around the ship, they had so much more potential for absolute insane anarchy.

Oh and I thought we would watch Chloe weep like crazy, if they had her dad die in front of her eyes when they were pulling her away, that would have been an insanely great scene. Also wouldnt it have been crazy if Young had one of the ticks? Having him weep over the dead body of Tamara with his kid still inside. These kind of things would have made the episode a million times better, they gave us the good start with Scott and then didnt follow through so not as good as SGU is capable of but I have seen worse episodes in other shows.

Btw, this is the episode that was nominated for a bunch of awards?

Ekiel
May 14th, 2010, 09:51 PM
*Sigh*

Horrible episode. Thank god for fast foward.

I wonder what the writers would do if we stole their magic reset button.
So yes, we reached the next galaxy, which was such a big deal the last episode. Nothing to see, completely uninteresting. Why even mention it at all?
At least we got hallucinations and now know the pain some people are in! Not that anything from this ep will ever matter again...

HaMm3r
May 14th, 2010, 09:51 PM
No but if they don't discover anything important its quite pointless. Plus we have no idea the length between galaxies

I believe in Sabotage, Rush mentions that they're going to fall roughly 50,000LY short and they say that's only about 5% of the total distance. So, that would make the distance between the two most recent galaxies roughly 1,000,000LY. Now if they ever give any indication of the time it took, speed could be estimated.

Oh, and the music montages are awesome! Need one every episode, at least.

boo1234
May 14th, 2010, 10:06 PM
This episode was only ok for me. Did we really need a story about hallucinogenic ticks instead of something more relevant to the situation at hand?

DigiFluid
May 14th, 2010, 10:07 PM
Loved it!


I believe in Sabotage, Rush mentions that they're going to fall roughly 50,000LY short and they say that's only about 5% of the total distance. So, that would make the distance between the two most recent galaxies roughly 1,000,000LY. Now if they ever give any indication of the time it took, speed could be estimated.
Assuming, of course, they are in a new galaxy and not just at a rogue star (system) in the void.

AndSoItBegins
May 14th, 2010, 10:13 PM
She is, and on one hand I don't mind. On the other, characters like Eli, Scott, and Reiley seem neglected to me.

Are you serious? Eli and Scott are easily two of the four characters with the most screen time on this show so far this season. Greer, Wray and perhaps even TJ (though she's beginning to catch up) have gotten far less screen time.

mere earthling
May 14th, 2010, 10:30 PM
Not a bad episode, I thought it was well acted, but I can say I've seen this ep before on some sci-fi show at some point in time. The concepts were not "new" or even dealt with uniquely per se, it was just their turn to put a their spin on that idea.

It was interesting to me that Rush completely gave in to the fantasy, is that a residue from his chair experience?

Chloe was predictable, no surprises there.

James was interesting too, I didn't think she felt that deeply for Scott.

Greer was just fun to watch, you know he just wanted to kill someone.

If I was Wray though, I would've stayed away from Greer......

AndSoItBegins
May 14th, 2010, 10:42 PM
Dislikes -
- Scott and Chloe were predictable, Greer's paranoia was just plain awful. More of the "angry, black man" role, when his character has come so far.
- Rush's reactions, while a bit understandable, weren't very logical. he came across far too emotional instead of reasoning things out like he's done consistently since Day 1. (yes, not always for the better, but logically-based). I'll have to accept that the tick screwed with that, too.


You're tired of the angry black man stereotype. Well, black male characters tend to be negative stereotypes because all the positive stereotypes are usually preserved for white characters like Rush (super genius). I'm tired of that. But most people in the mainstream have been willing to accept stereotypical black characters that have shown up in the vast majority of sci fi TV shows for decades. So, yeah, Greer's anger issues are kind of cliche but why are some fans taking his character to task? There have been two dimensional, underwritten, stereotypical black characters in everything from Angel to Enterprise to Lost to Heroes. SG1 to SGA. Nothing new here. I would really love to know of all the other shows that don't in one way or another reduce their black characters to tokens when in comparison to their white counterparts. I think Jamil's performances have saved Greer from being a total caricature so I tend to focus on the work the actor is doing given the material he has to work with. I'm not as mad about the angry black man box that he came gift wrapped in as much as his being the least developed character of the 7 regulars which keeps him from escaping that box.

With that said TPTB really need to stop having Greer point guns in people's faces.




And I think that sums it up. There was no Eli/Chloe kiss in this, so that particular scene from the trailer isn't a hallucination like I thought it might be. Based on some things I heard that cannot be discussed now, I think I know where and when it happens. I wonder if Chloe will find out about James and Scott, and if a blowup will push Chloe into finally seeing Eli as something better. Most women do eventually learn to drop the “bad boy”.

Obviously you prefer Eli to get Chloe. And that’s fine. But to refer to Scott as “bad boy” is absurd. Scott is American pie all the way. The only thing different about his character from previous types like him is his sexual appetite. But even with that Scott has been loyal to Chloe since he has gotten together with her. He has treated her well. I find it interesting that so many people root for Eli on this issue. Why? Chloe doesn’t owe him anything. And Scott didn’t take anything away from Eli. Eli is infatuated with Chloe and frankly he needs to get a bit of a life. He’s no different from Lt. James on this front. Frankly if Chloe was a good-looking man and Eli was an overweight, average-looking female this wouldn’t even be a debate. We would expect the “Male Chloe” to hook up with the most beautiful woman on the ship, not the overweight woman. But fanboys want it the other way when it’s the guy that’s doughy and nerdy.

Cold Fuzz
May 14th, 2010, 10:45 PM
My two favorite moments during this episode: Col. Young & Lt. Scott each crushing a tick...and hearing the oh-so-wonderfully satisfying CRUNCH of a dead critter twice. :cool: Ooooh yeah...:D

KEK
May 14th, 2010, 10:45 PM
Worst episode of the season in my opinion. It was always going to be some bug or plant causing the trouble, too much of the episode was focused on how to cure the hallucinations when the real story was with Greer, Wray and Rush.

AndSoItBegins
May 14th, 2010, 10:47 PM
*Sigh*

Horrible episode. Thank god for fast foward.

I wonder what the writers would do if we stole their magic reset button.
So yes, we reached the next galaxy, which was such a big deal the last episode. Nothing to see, completely uninteresting. Why even mention it at all?
At least we got hallucinations and now know the pain some people are in! Not that anything from this ep will ever matter again...

You must not have been a fan of the previous Stargate series because I don't recall either of them doing anything BUT reset storytelling.

Lahela
May 14th, 2010, 11:11 PM
Was it just me, or did anyone else think the lamps were the cause of the crazy at first?

*puts hand up* Yep. They did a great job with that particular red herring. I was a bit disappointed that it was ticks after that.


*Sigh*

Horrible episode. Thank god for fast foward.

I wonder what the writers would do if we stole their magic reset button.
So yes, we reached the next galaxy, which was such a big deal the last episode. Nothing to see, completely uninteresting. Why even mention it at all?
At least we got hallucinations and now know the pain some people are in! Not that anything from this ep will ever matter again...

What reset button? There was nothing "reset" in this ep.

The point of Sabotage was not the next galaxy itself but crossing the void. Why mention the new galaxy at all? Well, they picked up the ticks, for a start. And it will provide the planets for the settings of a whole bunch of episodes to come, I imagine.

And thus far the writers have showed consistently that nothing gets conveniently swept under the rug in future eps. Consequences are what sets this show apart from many other shows on TV.

Ok, I get that you didn't like it, but at least be reasonable in your justification for it.

Anyway...

I enjoyed it but am very far from loving it. It was too Tabula Rasa for me (which was an ep that I loved, I just felt it didn't need redoing). That said, the acting was top notch, and that Ronald Greer is one scary dude. Seriously.

Sami_
May 14th, 2010, 11:40 PM
An episode like this just makes me want to stop caring altogether.

Why spend millions of dollars and put in all the work necessary to make a big tv show just to have storylines as bad as this? I just don't get it.

Gollumpus
May 14th, 2010, 11:53 PM
BAG carried destiny across the void

BAG throws Destiny from one galaxy to another, and He is there in the second galaxy to catch it even before He throws it from the first galaxy.

regards,
G.

meo3000
May 15th, 2010, 12:03 AM
Im slowly loosing any interest in this show.

They said they wanted a character driven story but now its getting ridiculously boring.

We dont even get entire chapters, only a few pages per episode. We get to see a moment in time where the characters try to deal with a situation thats out of their control, and thats it. All the stuff that made Stargate fun and interesting has been sucked out.

We get it, Scott abandons the people hes suppose to care for, Chloe is missing her daddy, James is pissed at Scott, Greer has trust issues, Rush is scared ****less of being abducted, etc. Whats in store for season two, how everyone become good friends? Season 3, betrayal? BORING!

But dont despair my friend, the PTBs made sure to make a few action packed classic Stargate episodes to wrap up the season, just to ensure you come back for next year.

I surely wouldve liked to have a void episode that end entering the new galaxy. Its the first void travel for the crew and its skipped like its nothing. And apparently they picked up a bug somewhere...

SGU is like a vague dream you cant really remember the details. You know it must have been a cool dream but you dont remember the good parts, and you woke up just when you were about to get the girl.

Its cool but ultimately it sucks.

Gollumpus
May 15th, 2010, 12:20 AM
The episode was a bit of a non-starter for me as well.

After a few minutes of sorting out what was going on and realizing that there was only one potential "red-shirt" the episode lost a lot of tension. It was pretty clear that there was something going on which was messing with some people's minds, and once it was clear that the rest of the crew was at only minor risk of infection, it lost some more tension.

The Rush hallucinations were fairly dramatic, however I would have liked to have seen a bit more of his time in captivity revealed in these sequences.

Chloe's time with "Harvey" (Jimmy Stewart movie reference) was kind of sweet, but not particularly enlightening. It is interesting that of all the folks who were bitten she had the most "positive" (ie. non-violent, no paranoia, fear-free) experience. Perhaps this is because she was aware of what was happening to her and was able to control her experience.

James had the most significant developments for her character. It will be interesting to see how her relationship with Scott and Chloe develops. Will she go crazy and resort to violence, or will she wind up with a "noble death" scene saving her rival from certain death. I don't see a happy ending for the character.

Young and TJ had a touching moment or two where he wants to protect her (and the baby) from any form of harm, and she has to assure him that they will be okay.

Mostly, the episode felt like filler. Maybe it could have been improved by only having Rush infected and actually trying to sabotage or take over Destiny. Greer would be the only one who realizes this (at least at the start), and due to his actions everyone thinks he is the crazy one..... nah, that's not any better.

regards,
G.

spinny magee
May 15th, 2010, 12:30 AM
Fun to watch

Epic Wins:
- Riley still hasn't mentioned Franklin bribing him see he could leave that room
- Rush with pipe
- Greer playing "Survivor" with Rush and Wray
- Wray getting WTFPWNED by Rush
- Appearance by Chloe's dad....less annoying this episode thank god
- Rileys unamused look after Volker was banging at the door his face said "dude......what"
- Scott getting killed again, and being bashed by Rush

Epic Fails:
- Now no aliens in the last 3 eps :(
- Rush not whacking at Scott a bit more
- Lack of actual snakes
- Music at beginning and end
- Riley not going crazy

8.5/10

PG15
May 15th, 2010, 12:31 AM
Well, I believe Andromeda is about 500 million ly from the Milky Way.

Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away from us.

/pedanticcorrectionfromresidentphysicssnob





Assuming, of course, they are in a new galaxy and not just at a rogue star (system) in the void.

Actually, Chloe mentioned that they were indeed in the new galaxy. It was a very quick line though, so it's easy to miss.

Overall, a...pleasant episode. It kind of gives off the same vibe as "Water" for me - there seem to be very little "meat" to the story, but it was still enjoyable enough overall. I'd liken it to when Gene Roddenberry would ask his writers what each Star Trek episode was about. No, it wasn't about Kirk et al. going down to some planet and fighting aliens, it was about how they as humans react, what facet of humanity is revealed, what issues are explored, etc. In this case, "Pain" didn't seem to have much of that. It just felt like a bunch of things happened and...that's it. However, there were a few hints of what this episode could've been. More on this later.

Despite all that, there were still some great moments in here. It felt like a "summary" of the various character issues we've seen this year, to prepare ourselves for the 3 part season finale that will propel us into the next. It also had one moment that I've been waiting for since the pilot.

Clearly, all the character issues harken back to what we've seen, and it's great to know that the writers AND the characters themselves haven't forgotten about these issues and will hopefully build on them further on. For the main characters, Scott remains guilty over the son he had accidentally left behind due to being a stupid teen - a teary shuttle ride wasn't the end of that, after all. Rush, despite his callous and enigmatic exterior, does have a deep seated fear after all. The fear seems to be more primal than emotional - a fear for his life. I think it's interesting that it wasn't just the fact that aliens scared him, but aliens that managed to probe into his mind - his mind being what I believe to be what Rush believes to be his greatest asset. There is nothing more scary than beings who can take your greatest strength away from you. Meanwhile, I totally disagree with the "angry black man" label being put on Greer's portrayl. Anytime these stereotype labels are put on these it cheapens what lies underneath, and it's now feels more like they're being sensational ("lookit! I'm pointing out other people's political incorrectness to make me look better! Woooo!"). Yes, Greer was going around waving a gun at people, but his reasons are very noble IMHO. His fear of failing the crew, of Young, drove him to take drastic actions. It was probably the wrong thing to do if he really wanted to quelll a rebellion, but like he said in "Life" - he's the guy that has to do these sometimes-necessary things, he's been trained to do these things. Of course, this harkens back to "Time" and "Lost" where it was shown Greer is the way he is because he wants to use the strength that was trained into him by his father to make a difference in people's lives, to protect them despite whatever may happen to him, physically or mentally. Also, it took me by complete surprise when Greer's father showed up; loved that. Notice how Greer does what his father tells him to do; I've always surmised that Greer was ultimately thankful for what his father did to him, to make him into the force of nature that he is today. This is a sorta-confirmation of that, IMHO.

Meanwhile, the secondaries have their turn too. James continues to miss her time with Scott. The "conversation" they had in the teaser was very interesting, considering that it was basically James talking to herself. One can see her insecurities coming through - thinking that Scott has to choose between her and Chloe, and then next moment having "Scott" remind herself that he has already made his choice. Furthermore, we go from what is basically a sexual fantasy to a reality check of why that fantasy will likely never be; she can't even be happy in her fantasies. I am really liking what TPTB are doing with James; she's got the toughness down pat, and now we've got that layer of human imperfection painted on too. Now we just need to see her in happier times to really get how she ticks. Volker's scare just made it clearer how much he meant what he said back in "Life" (see how I keep refering to that episode? IT WAS IMPORTANT DAMMIT! :p). Patrick Gilmore did an amazing job when he was in that box; that scene made me pretty nervous.

Now, that thing that I've been waiting for? It's what Senator Armstrong said. For the first time, someone in the series expressed the feeling that this is a dream come true; that they are sailing the stars, seeing things no human has ever seen, exploring the far reaches of reality and existence. When he said those things, I felt a chill go down my spine. It's a very powerful thing, that urge to explore, to see and understand so many new things, and I'm glad it was Chloe who expressed these feelings (since the Senator was just an extension of Chloe's mind). The quote in my sig is, as indicated, from the great Carl Sagan. Another quote from him is:

"The exploration of the cosmos is a voyage of self-discovery."

Considering that Chloe seems to be the one with the most to discover about what she is capable of herself, this revelation that being out there among the stars is a dream of her and her father's is a perfect fit. I loved that whole sequence, and I hope they really expand on this. Of course, Christopher McDonald is brilliant, as usual, and it actually made me tear up seeing Chloe deal with seeing her father again and realizing what I had thought at the time: "I don't care if this is fake. My dad's in front of me and I'm going to hug him and cry into his shoulder like I've wanted to all this time." Elyse did an amazing job with this episode, IMHO; one of her best performances. Her "goodbye daddy" was heartbreaking, and very surreal if you realize that other people are seeing her say that to thin air.

Oh, and the scenes between TJ and Young were as cute as ever. Young's overprotectiveness continues. It's pretty sweet. :D

So in these respects, I think the episode did brilliantly. However, as others have said, they could've gone deeper if the mechanics of the hallucinations were something else - something that wouldn't have gotten so much focus. For now though, we have an episode with great character stuff wrapped around a plot I've seen far too many times; again, it felt like Water in this respect. I don't really care about ticks. Worst of all, with the series focusing so much on character stuff, TPTB have no time to really develop the crisis like in SG1/SGA, where the attraction of these crisis situations is in how they keep upping the ante and throwing monkey wrenches into our heroes' plans to make it even more desperate. Thus, we get a half-baked problem that really doesn't feel that urgent; it's like, this problem will probably not get any worse than this and they'll solve it eventually, so all it does is take up valuable character time. Unfortunately, this is a very difficult balance to achieve in 42 minutes. The writers will just have to figure these things out the hard way, and I wish them good luck.

That guy with the snake thing freaked me out. I had to turn away during the, uh, "scratching" scene. It was too graphic for me; clawing at an already-bloody arm? *Shudder*

There was one intriguing notion introduced in this episode that I wish they developed more, which was how they may need to limit gate travel if bad stuff like this keeps happening, introduced in the last scene. At the time, it felt like it came out of nowhere - they've had problems offworld before but never had this thought. However, it was still a very very interesting thought. IMHO they should've had one of Scott, Chloe, or Eli mention how dangerous being offworld is after their recent experience, maybe at the beginning of the episode, just to bookend it and make it more of a theme of the episode. I mean, it's something that's never really explored (though there was a brief mention at the end of SG1's "Bad Guys") in the past SG series since they were about exploration, but really, other planets are dangerous - is it really wise to go to every one that Destiny shows them?

Anyways, to wrap this up: brilliant character work, average plotting; could've benefitted from more time and more focus on the characters' problems instead of diluting it with the tick stuff. Still enjoyable though.

Cylykon
May 15th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Wow! Nostalgia!! The opening was practically an homage to "Championship Wrestling", the first track off Cheech and Chong's epic "Wedding Album"... Brilliant! This is what Stargate is all about!

DigiFluid
May 15th, 2010, 12:41 AM
Actually, Chloe mentioned that they were indeed in the new galaxy. It was a very quick line though, so it's easy to miss.
:indeed: I missed that completely--when did that happen?

Two other things on that,
a) Chloe is no scientist
b) Chloe also spent most of the episode tripping out, can we trust her saying anything in "Pain"?

PG15
May 15th, 2010, 12:55 AM
I think it might've been the scene where they first find the ticks; I can be less vague when the transcript comes out or when I...get the episode. ;)

I think we can trust her on this one. Her line didn't feel like it was meant as anything more than just simple exposition.

Sebastian
May 15th, 2010, 01:30 AM
How about you people stop reading every possible spoiler beforehand, and see the episodes unbiased :confused:. It might improve your viewer experience.

Peace :cool:.

DigiFluid
May 15th, 2010, 01:34 AM
How about you people stop reading every possible spoiler beforehand, and see the episodes unbiased :confused:. It might improve your viewer experience.

Peace :cool:.
This is how I approach it. That way my enjoyment or disappointment is just based on what I see, rather than any misguided expectations.

And I love SGU :D

latvian_stargatefan
May 15th, 2010, 01:39 AM
At least we got hallucinations and now know the pain some people are in! Not that anything from this ep will ever matter again...

I'm laughing my ass off. Not that anything from this ep will ever matter again? For crying out loud, it dealt with things we've seen already on the show and these are ungoing issues that won't be resolved with this episode... Some people just don't get it.

I enjoyed this episode very much, not that much as I enjoyed "Time", "Light", ''Divided", "Lost" and maybe some other ep. but it was good, especially Greer's and Rush's parts. About aliens actuaally not coming to the Destiny, i don't really see a big deal. What would we gain from blue smurfs coming to the ship (who can't even communicate with us, like speak with us)- I suspect only some typical random shoot-em-up episode and I don't really think it would work with SGU... So let's leave them, in fact, maybe we just leave them in the galaxy we just left...

As for them being out of the void and in new galaxy (THEY ARE IN A NEW GALAXY), I don't see probems with that. We already saw some stuff they were doing while being stranded on the ship in "Sabotage" (''Only if you run'' montage). What else could you do with a void episode? Make another "Life" out of it??? It's a good decision. I like how constantlly obvious things are not spoon fed to the viewer... like they don't waste time having few lines about "now we're in the new galaxy, it took us several months, we need to recharge, we visited several planets etc. etc....

I also like montages and Eli and Chloe characters for the same reason many people hate them- for the reason that ''contemporary music montages are not sci-fi'' and Eli and Chloe are not really sci-fi show characters. For me, it's more realistic to believe that these are ''the wrong'' people from Earth if there are those songs and Eli and Chloe... They are unique to SGU so the show can't be mixed with another stranded in space sort of deal like BSG or Voyager... or Atlantis.

As for this ep., I really loved and I can tell why. It reminded me of "Grace", one of, in my opinion, best episodes of SG1 ever. Also what was fresh about this was that it deal with issues we've already seen on screen, not like in other sci-fi shows that in this episode we get to know out of the blue that "Captain McLovin is afraid of losing his people because on some planet many years ago he lost some of his friends etc."... and nothing of that matters again in the show. Both in "Grace" and here these were things we already knew about- Chloe and father, Scott and son, James and Scott, Rush and aliens, Greer and those damn two who want to take the ship from ''the man''... and his father.

I don't really care if there was a plot in this ep. of not. In my opinion, it's not really necessary to have some kind of a complex plot if you have something to show or tell us. And they certainly had something to show in this case. Greer was simply great in this episode, I don't really care about the angry black man stereotupe, I think it's bull and I will even not speak about it like I wouldn't like speak about some other people's "opinions'' that Wray is portrayed as a crazy psycho lesbian bi*** of 70s trash cinema... I can't believe people watch this show and come to these kinds of conclusions...

I really love Greer- after Young and Rush he's probably my 3rd favourite on the show and I don't want him to become ''family friendly''. Sure, he needs to work on some issues but I don't want him to become the next Ronon.... who gradually, over time, became a ''family friendly'' badass character... But I know that it isn't a BSG so we won't see a character like him shooting someone on Destiny in the face actually or Scott beating up a woman or bunch of people just thrown in the airlock. And I can do without all those things just fine and wouldn't even want to see them on SGU as long as character like Greer isn't completely turned into a ''family friendly'' type random military guy.

I liked the way how Chloe and father situation was done, in the way that she knew that he's a hallucination but just wanted to be with him again. That was pretty good. And the Rush scenes, snake under skin guy and Volker scenes were really scary, especially for me whose one of the greatest fears is to be buried alive...

Solid 8.5/10, better than ''Sabotage", worse than coming "Subversion''

Infinite-Possibilities
May 15th, 2010, 02:20 AM
This episode was well, fine to me. I was just a little disappointed because I felt sort of it did not feel like this was the best time for a filler episode.

Eternal Density
May 15th, 2010, 02:41 AM
This was an alright ep. It sure had me wondering what on earth was going on for a while (yay, spoiler free!) which was a nice change. Sure, there wasn't much detail in the plot but there was lots of great character stuff! Chloe was great in this one! TJ sure has a tough job but she's coping admirably. I noticed how Young is keeping a close eye on her to make sure she doesn't overdo it.
Eli was put in a tough decision (regarding ratting out Chloe's condition) but he made the right choice eventually even though she doesn't seem to appreciate it. Her goodbye to her dad and her conversations with him were heartwarming.
Riley opening Volker's door was a fun moment :D
The initial scene with James (which I thought was real for a while) was a bit much, but I guess it did get a point across. It did help the awkwardness when she was asked about what was behind her hallucination...
Wooooo, Rush with a pipe!
[edit] I knew there was something else I meant to say:
I did think of Atlantis: Phantoms (also an alright ep) but not until 34 minutes into the episode.

Demoniser
May 15th, 2010, 03:02 AM
Pros
-Interesting episode, some great acting from some of the secondary cast.
- Good character development

Cons
- Reused story idea to be honest, just replacing a Pegasus Space Virus with a tick
- The episode got off to a good start but fell a bit flat towards the latter half imo
- The aliens boarding the ship, dissapointed it was just a hallucination. I wish they had made that part real , it would have made the episode that much better, distinguishing the imaginary events from those in reality. Dissapointed to be honest considering the big fuss made of it in the 1.5 trailer, seems a bit of a cop out, although i wouldn't be surprised if the writers did that on purpose to play with us but i won't get my hopes up.

RedXian
May 15th, 2010, 03:39 AM
Despite it's simplicity, I enjoyed this episode.

But there is one line from James' hallucination that is really sticking with me.

Hallucination Matt said "We've got to stop doing this" implying that this isn't a one time event.

It's likely that this is all in James' head, but the hallucinations are stemming from something that is true.

So is it possible that Matt & James are still "visiting the closet" as it were?

major davis
May 15th, 2010, 03:39 AM
I think the smurfs will be back for season 2. Don't worry. :).

Wow. What a supprise. Everyone like hated this episode. Am I the only one who thought it was Stinking awesome!!!! Weird thing was I didn't like the montage. Montages are usually one of my fav parts of SGU. This one just didn't fit....... At all.

Anyways can't figure out why this ep is gaining such hate. :(. I didn't like sabotage and yet everyone loved it and now I LOVE this episode but everyone hates it. :(

garhkal
May 15th, 2010, 04:37 AM
Why did Greer hesitate so long if he was so under the influence of the tick? Why was Rush so unable to realize it wasn't real when he's usually so grounded in logic and reasoning and knew what was going on?



On Greer, i think he was so wrapped up in already thinking those 2 were plotting he was sent over the edge and was drawing it out (much like some of those with PTSD do). As for Rush, well he recently had a near life experience with the chair and his wife, so perhaps his logical mind harkened back to that.


Rush is deathly afraid of being taken again
and his acting is top notch.

He really pulled out hte stops to show his fear here. Cudos..


-Wray almost got killed, dammit Greer! just shoot her!

Part of me was actually thinking he was hallucinating she was there..


I found it interesting that when he was in trouble, it was Col. Young that he called first.


That actually surprised the heck out of me he immediately called for Young.




So we get official confirmation that the Blue Aliens coming through the gate never actually happens, kind of a teaser let down.



As mentioned elsewhere, perhaps ONE did manage to get aboard (when rush first saw that lone one) and he manages to get a Kino remote, waits till we dial to a planet and tosses it through for his brethren to find.. so they would then have a way to get into the destiny.


- Rush with a pipe, taking down Greer and a few others; the man probably single-handily saved this episode with that one scene.

He did seem like a natural with that pipe. Though i wonder if Wray is going to hold him stabbing her with a screwdriver against him.


I have a feeling that perhaps we just don't know enough about Eli to be able to guess what his greatest fear is yet. Actually, while I'm sure his mom is near the top of the list, I'm thinking it's dying. Like in "Time," the whole conversation with Rush. Maybe not enough bad stuff has actually happened to Eli yet for us to get a powerful hallucination out of him?

Well he is probably the youngest and least 'worldly' of the crew, so has not had many experiences for the hallucinations to draw on.


I believe in Sabotage, Rush mentions that they're going to fall roughly 50,000LY short and they say that's only about 5% of the total distance. So, that would make the distance between the two most recent galaxies roughly 1,000,000LY. Now if they ever give any indication of the time it took, speed could be estimated.

Part of me would have lked that, but others wouldn't have. But i do like how in the early part they did mention the engines are working at a higher efficiency.


Epic Wins:
- Rush with pipe
- Greer playing "Survivor" with Rush and Wray
- Wray getting WTFPWNED by Rush
- Scott getting killed again, and being bashed by Rush

A big Plus 1 for all but scott getting killed. I am actually starting to like him.


I noticed how Young is keeping a close eye on her to make sure she doesn't overdo it.

I liked how he seemed to be conflicted with whether to tell Scott or not.

meo3000
May 15th, 2010, 04:58 AM
I think people dont like it cause it was a filler. We didnt learn anything new from the characters or their environment, except that once again theyre the wrong people.

A pattern is emerging with Carl Binder writting.

-Demons: false beliefs almost cost Teal'c life

-Before i sleep: Weir faces her own mortality
-Letters from Pegasus: People record messages for loved ones knowing they probably never will be back.
-Aurora: crew stuck in a false reality
-The hive: mind altering drugs
-Micheal: brainwashing
-Irresistible: Lucius, brainwashing, hallucinations
-Progeny: Replicators, AI
-The real world: Weir infected by nanites, virtual reality
-Phantoms: hallucinations do i need to say more
-Echoes: more hallucinations
-Lifeline: virtual reality diversion
-Quarantine: Atlantis is locked down, self-destruct activated, people need to face their mortality
-Ghost in the machine: see a pattern here
-Inquisition: their integrity, actions are put in question in a trial
-Identity: body swap

-Pain: hallucinations

He also wrote Water and Life but apparently restrained himself from his normal style. Maybe its time he find a new show to write for. Im not saying his stories arent good, its just almost always the same stuff.

derrickh
May 15th, 2010, 05:05 AM
This was a bad episode. Not because of the retread plot device that we've seen dozens of times in various Star Treks. There's a standard formula for the 'Im seeing things' episode. Simple. effective, boring.

We all knew this was coming after the first 3 minutes. And I'm sure everyone watching hoped that SGU was going to do something to flip the standard formula on its head and make it exciting. Nope. Instead it made a bad formula even worse by making the characters act like complete idiots.

Super smart scientist starts seeing things. He says nothing. Trained military soldier who has been trusted to go to other planets doesnt say a word when he thinks snakes are in his arm. Super hot soldier lady doesn't try to get help for the imaginary manslut she's hit on the head.

And thats just the start.

When they find out about the ticks, instead of making a ship wide announcement of 'Hey, we have space ticks that make you hallucinate so please come to the infirmary to be checked out', Young decides to only let the cool kids know. This entire episode could have been avoided by a single text message.

And once they pull the ticks out, do they put them into a lidded container? Nope, just a flat tray. Because space ticks cant jump or hop or fly. Oh wait, they can. Plus, they kill them by squishing it with a thumb? That doesn't seem too smart. Since this bug has been secreting heroin all day, maybe skin contact with it's guts isnt the best idea.

And Chloe...she is..how do I say this...a complete and utter imbecile. Not only does she fall in love with the alien insect shooting LSD into her brain, she coerces ELI into not telling anyone by playing on the fact that he has a crush on her. If he had held out for another 30 seconds, you know the next words out of her mouth would've been 'If you let me keep my insect dad, I'll let you touch my boobs'.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 06:18 AM
....So, yeah, Greer's anger issues are kind of cliche but why are some fans taking his character to task?
....With that said TPTB really need to stop having Greer point guns in people's faces.
.... I find it interesting that so many people root for Eli on this issue. Why? Chloe doesn’t owe him anything. And Scott didn’t take anything away from Eli. Eli is infatuated with Chloe and frankly he needs to get a bit of a life. He’s no different from Lt. James on this front. Frankly if Chloe was a good-looking man and Eli was an overweight, average-looking female this wouldn’t even be a debate. We would expect the “Male Chloe” to hook up with the most beautiful woman on the ship, not the overweight woman.
....
Anger issues aren't only left to Greer. Young clearly has a problem with his temper and from Rush's reaction to the alien (although understandable given the level of fear), he's got anger too. And don't forget Chloe, who had no problem flattening Rush. Maybe it's something in the air :) Greer's anger, for me anyway, is only an issue if he did something other than what he does. If he was an accountant or something, then yeah, that anger would have no place, but it's not like there isn't a place in the military for angry people, so no taking him to task by me. If you don't mess around with Greer or the orderly world he lives in/by, then you're not going to have a problem with Greer.

You raise a very valid point about Chloe/Eli. If the "Eli" character had all of Eli's nerd qualities but happened to be an overweight woman, I sincerely doubt people would be insisting that he was somehow entitled to "Chloe".


My two favorite moments during this episode: Col. Young & Lt. Scott each crushing a tick...and hearing the oh-so-wonderfully satisfying CRUNCH of a dead critter twice. :cool: Ooooh yeah...:DThat WAS very satisfying! I don't normally kill bugs but there are times when bugs cross the line and have to go. This was definitely one of those times.



... Rush, despite his callous and enigmatic exterior, does have a deep seated fear after all. The fear seems to be more primal than emotional - a fear for his life. I think it's interesting that it wasn't just the fact that aliens scared him, but aliens that managed to probe into his mind - his mind being what I believe to be what Rush believes to be his greatest asset. There is nothing more scary than beings who can take your greatest strength away from you.

....Meanwhile, I totally disagree with the "angry black man" label being put on Greer's portrayl. Anytime these stereotype labels are put on these it cheapens what lies underneath, and it's now feels more like they're being sensational ("lookit! I'm pointing out other people's political incorrectness to make me look better! Woooo!"). Yes, Greer was going around waving a gun at people, but his reasons are very noble IMHO. His fear of failing the crew, of Young, drove him to take drastic actions. It was probably the wrong thing to do if he really wanted to quelll a rebellion, but like he said in "Life" - he's the guy that has to do these sometimes-necessary things, he's been trained to do these things.


....Now, that thing that I've been waiting for? It's what Senator Armstrong said. For the first time, someone in the series expressed the feeling that this is a dream come true; that they are sailing the stars, seeing things no human has ever seen, exploring the far reaches of reality and existence. When he said those things, I felt a chill go down my spine. It's a very powerful thing, that urge to explore, to see and understand so many new things, and I'm glad it was Chloe who expressed these feelings (since the Senator was just an extension of Chloe's mind). The quote in my sig is, as indicated, from the great Carl Sagan. Another quote from him is:

"The exploration of the cosmos is a voyage of self-discovery."

Considering that Chloe seems to be the one with the most to discover about what she is capable of herself, this revelation that being out there among the stars is a dream of her and her father's is a perfect fit

......Oh, and the scenes between TJ and Young were as cute as ever. Young's overprotectiveness continues. It's pretty sweet. :D

.....There was one intriguing notion introduced in this episode that I wish they developed more, which was how they may need to limit gate travel if bad stuff like this keeps happening, introduced in the last scene. At the time, it felt like it came out of nowhere - they've had problems offworld before but never had this thought. However, it was still a very very interesting thought.

Rush: Being reduced to that level of primal fear, and primal reaction, for him must have been terrifying. He's often mocked the little boys playing soldiers and yet when it comes down to his life, to his very essence, he's driven to kill. There';s a lot of fears there.

Greer: I agree with you. Reducing Greer to that stereotype really diminishes him as a character. I can understand where it comes from but in doing so, in reducing him to three words, "angry black man", to sum up what and why he is, really does cheapen him as a character. Greer is one of the more complex and layered characters on the show and every time that man is in front of the camera, something he does is meaningful. And he's so full of awesome that 3 words is not nearly enough :)

Chloe: the woman gets a hell of a lot of grief but on this show, Chloe is the sense of wonder. Sure, Eli hasn't been on a spaceship, blah blah blah, but Eli is still jaded by the things he knows. Chloe is simply experiencing it, and through her, we experience it. I think that's why her hallucination experience was different.

Young and TJ: I love their scenes together. That is a man that is trying, damned hard.

Young and the gate: I'm glad that he didn't call off going offworld. It would be easy and understandable to give in to fear and never go out again, but you have to keep trying.


How about you people stop reading every possible spoiler beforehand, and see the episodes unbiased :confused:. It might improve your viewer experience.

Peace :cool:.I like the spoilers, within reason, and getting to speculate with so many others about what will happen actually improves my experience. But I'm weird so it's likely just me :)


I think the smurfs will be back for season 2. Don't worry. :).

Wow. What a supprise. Everyone like hated this episode. Am I the only one who thought it was Stinking awesome!!!! Weird thing was I didn't like the montage. Montages are usually one of my fav parts of SGU. This one just didn't fit....... At all.

Anyways can't figure out why this ep is gaining such hate. :(. I didn't like sabotage and yet everyone loved it and now I LOVE this episode but everyone hates it. :(Nope, you're not alone there.



....That actually surprised the heck out of me he immediately called for Young.
...As mentioned elsewhere, perhaps ONE did manage to get aboard
Me too. Sure, in a logical way, it makes sense, because hey, Young's the guy that can bring the military in, but logic isn't the thing with these two and I was quite surprised, pleasantly surprised, that when the chips are down, that Rush knew he not only should go to Young to tell him what was happening, but that he knew that he could go to Young to help him. You dont do that when you're afraid unless you're pretty sure you can rely on that. It's a nice touch in the development between these two characters.

12OzMouse
May 15th, 2010, 06:25 AM
Like others, I felt this was a weaker episode and one that was just stuck in the lineup. I know that not all episodes can be blockbusters, but this one lacked on a lot of different levels. I'm all for artistic license, but at the point early in the ep when they realized that those affected had all been on the away team, why weren't all those folks rounded up then? I know why, but it's just one of those plot points that make the over all show less than it potentially could have been. I mean, as their checking peoples bodies for the tick, I'm sitting there going, what about Greer and Rush?

I do think that there were some stunning individual performances, too bad they weren't in a better episode. Although I guess without those individual highpoints, this would have been a real stinker...

kymeric
May 15th, 2010, 06:52 AM
I kinda want MORE musical montages. Yeah you heard me!

HaMm3r
May 15th, 2010, 06:58 AM
I kinda want MORE musical montages. Yeah you heard me!

Yes! We should start a petition for an episode totally comprised of nothing but music montages. Now wouldn't that be awesome!!

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 07:00 AM
Yes! We should start a petition for an episode totally comprised of nothing but music montages. Now wouldn't that be awesome!!

and dancing!
come on, you can't have a decent musical episode without dancing :)

Kaiphantom
May 15th, 2010, 07:07 AM
You're tired of the angry black man stereotype. Well, black male characters tend to be negative stereotypes because all the positive stereotypes are usually preserved for white characters like Rush (super genius). I'm tired of that.

I agree with you. I want to see Greer in a more heroic role, doing good, and *not* stuck in the "angry black man" role. The character, while initially playing that role, put a lot more depth into it, only to relapse into a stereotype that is overdone. I expect better in this day and age.


Obviously you prefer Eli to get Chloe. And that’s fine. But to refer to Scott as “bad boy” is absurd. Scott is American pie all the way. The only thing different about his character from previous types like him is his sexual appetite. But even with that Scott has been loyal to Chloe since he has gotten together with her. He has treated her well. I find it interesting that so many people root for Eli on this issue. Why? Chloe doesn’t owe him anything. And Scott didn’t take anything away from Eli. Eli is infatuated with Chloe and frankly he needs to get a bit of a life. He’s no different from Lt. James on this front. Frankly if Chloe was a good-looking man and Eli was an overweight, average-looking female this wouldn’t even be a debate. We would expect the “Male Chloe” to hook up with the most beautiful woman on the ship, not the overweight woman. But fanboys want it the other way when it’s the guy that’s doughy and nerdy.

You pretty much said it; audiences prefer to see the good looking guy with the good looking girl. It's another stereotype.

But what I did say about women going for the wrong guy early on, learn from their mistake, and now find the "nice guy" attractive is pretty much true. Scott is a "bad boy" in the sense he's "rougher" than Eli, as far as a female is concerned. I mean, he expects a girl he banged to get an abortion, and when she doesn't, he tries to make his guilt go away with money. And yet, he learned nothing from casual sex, as he's banging James later and totally disregarding her feelings; and then quickly jumps into bed with Chloe. Do you really think he deserves a regular relationship now? Considering he has learned *nothing* about consequences for his actions? Due to TPTB, Chloe won't get pregnant, so that's another bullet he gets a free pass on.

And lastly, I'd rather see Eli move past Chloe. I was heartened when he was ignoring her at the beginning of Human and she came crawling to him, wanting her rag back. But he fell back into it. If Chloe grows up, then maybe I'd consider an Eli/Chloe thing. But right now, neither of them is ready. Of course, Scott/Chloe aren't ready, either (the former, so much more).

It's all realistic of course, since this happens in reality, which actually makes it kind of worse. The only way the situation can be salvaged, is if they do grow past this. Scott, realizing he has much to learn about keeping it in his pants, drifts away from Chloe and acknowledges the hurt he's causing James. Chloe needs to learn that Scott is bad for her, but that won't happen until he does actually hurt her (and she needs 5 years or so of growth). Eli needs to downgrade Chloe's importance and focus on other things; only when you ignore the woman, will you stop being her doormat and she'll actually start wanting you.

So, as you can see, I have issues with all three

Hell, at least Park knows her encounters are purely casual.

Lahela
May 15th, 2010, 07:07 AM
Can I interrupt your plans for SGU - The Musical to ask why nobody has created a "favourite moments" thread?

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 07:09 AM
Can I interrupt your plans for SGU - The Musical to ask why nobody has created a "favourite moments" thread?

waiting for MattSilver 3k to wake up?

Lahela
May 15th, 2010, 07:10 AM
waiting for MattSilver 3k to wake up?

Fair enough... maybe he has a milkshake hangover :eek:

erotavlas
May 15th, 2010, 07:10 AM
I didn't like it that much. When I saw the preview the week before I already lost interest,overall it just didn't engage me. Kind of disappointed too because I was enjoying all the episodes until now.

What would have made it more interesting was if we were led to believe they were all hallucinations but one of them actually turned out to be real at the end. I think that would have made a more exciting episode.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 07:12 AM
Fair enough... maybe he has a milkshake hangover :eek:

he;s lying in a pool of melted chocolate milkshake, distressed pompoms and regret!...okay, I'll see if there's a thread yet...


fave moments thread: http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/74897-Pain-Favorite-Moments-spoilers?p=11508760#post11508760

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 15th, 2010, 07:58 AM
Well personally having watched Pain, I enjoyed it but definitely for me was one of the weakest episodes so far. Enjoyable but formulaic, the whole everyone goes crazy thing has been done before, its a cheap way of getting some effective character moments out of people. I enjoyed the ep for the fact that it showed there were still suspicions about people left over from the mutiny, the nutty moments everyone had and the gore at points, but overall all it was filler, and nothing we really haven’t seen before from stargate. However not every episode can be ground breaking and I look forward to next week.

On another note I see people on the thread annoyed that Greer has somehow returned to the “angry black guy” stereotype. I don’t see it, clearly he was supposed to be hallucinating and not acting himself. Then again I never saw him as an angry black guy to begin with, in fact the anger and the shouting in this ep from him showed to me that he wasn’t himself, usually Greer is much calmer, compare this episode to Divided where Greer is calm and collected through the whole mutiny. The whole point of the ep was people behaving abnormally, and people are way over thinking this. Was the episode also implying that Scotsman are violent madman and women are vicious harpies who will attack people when jealous?

12OzMouse
May 15th, 2010, 07:59 AM
But what I did say about women going for the wrong guy early on, learn from their mistake, and now find the "nice guy" attractive is pretty much true. Scott is a "bad boy" in the sense he's "rougher" than Eli, as far as a female is concerned. I mean, he expects a girl he banged to get an abortion, and when she doesn't, he tries to make his guilt go away with money. And yet, he learned nothing from casual sex, as he's banging James later and totally disregarding her feelings; and then quickly jumps into bed with Chloe. Do you really think he deserves a regular relationship now? Considering he has learned *nothing* about consequences for his actions? Due to TPTB, Chloe won't get pregnant, so that's another bullet he gets a free pass on.
.

I think you have missed a few points early on. One, Scott was told that his GF had an abortion before he had an opportunity to weigh in on the issue. He attempted to contact her but she no longer wanted to see him. He had no idea that she in fact had a baby till he, through the stones went and visited her. He was, justifiably, surprised and reacted the only way he could, considering he's millions of light years away from her, by providing financial support for his child. I don't see how a person could respond in a better way. With James, he obviously was engaged in a casual affair. Other than Jame's hallucination, I don't believe that he has carried on the affair since arriving on Destiny. Now, if he was still involved with her, then yes, he would deserve a little criticism. It's plain from the story that James thought that their affair was more than it turned out to be. That happens in real life quite often. One party thinks that it's all fun and games, the other one thinks its serious. I've often seen the roles reversed from what's portrayed in the show, where the man thinks he's getting into a serious thing, and the woman is just having fun. Nobody but bad communication is at fault.

I think that Eli is finally discovering that, "he's not in Kansas, anymore". Whereas, Scott has realized that from the beginning. I think the show is doing a good job showing Eli's emotional development, you don't just change from man-child to a man over night. Eli has got that hurt puppy dog thing working for him right now, but the time to grow up is quickly approaching.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 08:59 AM
Horrible episode. Boring, bad pacing, not original plot, bad dialog, ridiculous. I was looking at my watch wishing it was ending soon but yet not wanting to lose plot points that may come back in future episodes. I won't review it furthermore since there's nothing to review.

I give it a 2/10.

Kaiphantom
May 15th, 2010, 09:04 AM
I think you have missed a few points early on. One, Scott was told that his GF had an abortion before he had an opportunity to weigh in on the issue. He attempted to contact her but she no longer wanted to see him. He had no idea that she in fact had a baby till he, through the stones went and visited her. He was, justifiably, surprised and reacted the only way he could, considering he's millions of light years away from her, by providing financial support for his child. I don't see how a person could respond in a better way.

You have to read between the lines. Scott was the one all broken up about her getting pregnant, and then "they" decided to get an abortion. That she didn't go through with it, tells us she didn't really want to, and thus it was more from Scott's angle. He didn't want the responsibility or cost of a child at that age. And when he showed up later, he was quick to toss money at her without considering her feelings; especially since he attached terms to the money. While she would have been grateful for the cash, she doesn't want to be beholden to him.


With James, he obviously was engaged in a casual affair. Other than Jame's hallucination, I don't believe that he has carried on the affair since arriving on Destiny. Now, if he was still involved with her, then yes, he would deserve a little criticism. It's plain from the story that James thought that their affair was more than it turned out to be. That happens in real life quite often. One party thinks that it's all fun and games, the other one thinks its serious. I've often seen the roles reversed from what's portrayed in the show, where the man thinks he's getting into a serious thing, and the woman is just having fun. Nobody but bad communication is at fault.

We don't know what went on between the two prior to the closet. However, we do know James had stronger feelings, and isn't the type to just jump into bed with anyone. So there obviously had to be signs before the closet that she liked him. Signs that Scott chose to ignore, in favor of "ooh, sex!" Greer obviously knew what was going on between them, so it implies it had been going on for awhile. And despite supposedly having been profoundly affected by the earlier pregnancy, he seems to have learned nothing since then. So all his worry earlier was just about the "drag" of having a kid, and how it could ruin his life.

And then, Scott didn't even think twice about James after Chloe offered herself. No second thoughts, no "should I really do this? What about James?" Those are typical traits of a "bad boy." If a younger, or more beautiful, or newer woman were to offer herself to Scott, he'd probably jump in with her in a second. If this were real life, James or Chloe should end up pregnant, to really drive home the lesson in him that sleeping around without considering feelings is generally a bad idea.

I wonder if there will be a good looking woman among the LA people who will arrive on the ship; if she knows anything, she'll know Scott is an easy target through his pants.

kymeric
May 15th, 2010, 09:05 AM
Hey that was one of the rebel asurans from SGA!

hedwig
May 15th, 2010, 09:08 AM
I thought on the last ep (Sabotage), they were about to go between galaxies and there was going to be a big empty space, with talk of rationing supplies until they arrive. At the end of this ep, they get out of FTL and find a planet. Did the time skip or what? It seems like the previous episode didn't happen.....

I had the impression they must have visited at least one planet in the new galaxy in between "Sabotage" and "Pain", and that was where the ticks came from. It might have been Young who said that Scott, James, the guy who thought he had snakes crawling on him, and another woman had gone on an away mission to a planet where they likely picked up those ticks, and it had to have been fairly recently, since they spent at least three weeks between galaxies trying to figure out how to get the FTL drive working properly. It seemed as though they all started hallucinating within days of visiting whatever planet the ticks were on.

Petra
May 15th, 2010, 09:33 AM
I admit to being disappointed. It wasn't a bad episode, but overall it was pretty "meh". I expected something really extraordianry from James and Volker given that the actors were nominated for awards for their performances in this one, but as it turned out they weren't given more screen time than recently and their acting was their usual very good. Hm.

I think the ep started very strong, esp. the teaser was well done (the song though wasn't to my taste, I found it a bit jarring), but then it just petered out and became quite anti-climactic.

What I liked:

James. Her character is very realistic. She and TJ are the best written females in the franchise since Janet and earlier seasons Sam, and JB is a great actress. TPTB should bump her up to the main cast.

TJ and Young. Both solo and together were great. Their interaction was sweet.

Eli. He's growing up. I just wish he also grew out of his infatuation with Chloe, because franky he can do better and I don't think they'd fit togeter.

Volker was cool. It was nice to see Brody, Riley and Park too.

Rush - second ep in a row when I liked Rush. Woo hoo. Although I agree with the comments that it felt a bit OOC for him to succumb to his hallucinations so quickly and easily, and he didn't question them. I'm also curious what he wanted to talk about with Wray - as somebody else said, I too think it had something to do with Mandy.

Wray. She was, well, herself. But I loved the scene at the end when she was pleading with Greer.

And speaking of Greer...heh, I loved him! I was very pleasantly surprised that he got so much screentime and boy, it was time well spent. I got the impression that JWS really enjoyed playing a crazed psycho and pulled no punches. Great stuff. Having said that, I don't agree with whoever said that it was "angry black man" stereotype again. Never before had I seen it, and neither did I see it in this ep. Greer is all about duty, loyalty and protection of those with whose care he was entrusted. After Rush and Wray's little mutiny he sees them as a threat to security and well-being of people he feels responsible for, so it's only natural that he keeps an eye on them and is distrustful. I found it interesting that even in his altered state his mind felt the need to receive Young's permission to do anything about them -or to them.

The "meh" things:

Chloe. I don't know, I found her scenes with her dad pretty boring. Although it's interesting that her longing after her father is stronger than her fear of the Smurfs. And when she was walking him around the ship talking about *everything* I suspected for a moment that the aliens were really somehow probing her mind.

Scott. His scene with James in the teaser was great, and BJS played a cold-hearted b****** really well, but then..meh. IMO using a child to get under character's skin is pretty overdone in the Stargate franchise. I would have prefered to learn something new about the priest who took care of him, or something new about his past.

What I didn't like:

The plot. Very contrived and, well, boring.

Overall then, one of the weakest episodes in the series so far, although it had its moments. The only thing that got me excited post-intro was preview of the next week's episode. There's Jack! Yay! And Daniel! Double yay! And Telford will be back...looks interesting. Have I mentioned Jack O'Neill's return? :D :D I can't wait.

g.o.d
May 15th, 2010, 09:57 AM
I was sooo wrong when I said "Sabotage" was the worst episode. This was bad, really bad. SGU is getting back to the SG's roots and I was afraid of that. I hate old SG style so much, so if this is going to continue, I will stop watching SGU.

There was nothing I liked in this episode. I was almost sleeping, used FF button few times

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:00 AM
I was sooo wrong when I said "Sabotage" was the worst episode. This was bad, really bad. SGU is getting back to the SG's roots and I was afraid of that. I hate old SG style so much, so if this is going to continue, I will stop watching SGU.

There was nothing I liked in this episode. I was almost sleeping, used FF button few times
This episode has nothing to do with the style of the other series. It was all emo, character development crap. In a real Stargate episode (beside a few character centric ones) it would be about what causes those hallucinations not the hallucinations themselves.

g.o.d
May 15th, 2010, 10:05 AM
This episode has nothing to do with the style of the other series. It was all emo, character development crap. In a real Stargate episode (beside a few character centric ones) it would be about what causes those hallucinations not the hallucinations themselves.

Doppelganger, Grace. Two examples of the stupidest episodes in the entire SG history. Pain is the newest addition to this group. I had the same feeling like I had while watching SGA. Despair, mysery, anger...

jelgate
May 15th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Doppelganger, Grace. Two examples of the stupidest episodes in the entire SG history. Pain is the newest addition to this group. I had the same feeling like I had while watching SGA. Despair, mysery, anger...
If a TV show is making a person angry I think they a little too emotionally invested in the show

g.o.d
May 15th, 2010, 10:11 AM
If a TV show is making a person angry I think they a little too emotionally invested in the show

better than feel nothing :D

aretood2
May 15th, 2010, 10:15 AM
Doppelganger, Grace. Two examples of the stupidest episodes in the entire SG history. Pain is the newest addition to this group. I had the same feeling like I had while watching SGA. Despair, mysery, anger...
Grace was one of the best SG-1 episodes...

This episode was...forseen. I mean you're in a void, between to galaxies on a strange ship in an unkown part of the universe. I was expecting something funky, something that messed with their minds...Sci Fi's do that in this situation...someone said (In the first page) that it was cliche...and it is, for Sci Fi. However I like some cliches...and this is one of them.

So I liked this episode quite well :) Now it's not the best, nor great, but it was good.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:16 AM
Doppelganger, Grace. Two examples of the stupidest episodes in the entire SG history. Pain is the newest addition to this group. I had the same feeling like I had while watching SGA. Despair, mysery, anger...
Those were the few odd character centric one. SGU takes the cake with all this character development crap with no plots to speak of.

Sabotage, Human was the same thing. Not much plot just character stuff. The sci-fi part is only a plot device so we can learn more about the character.

aretood2
May 15th, 2010, 10:20 AM
Those were the few odd character centric one. SGU takes the cake with all this character development crap with no plots to speak of.
There were more.... The one where Jack infiltrate's that Trust SG team, Avatar, The one where Teal'c is trapped in that game, When Jack and Sam got trapped in Antartica for the first time, When Jack got tortured by Ba'al, The one where Sha're died, the one where Daniel had a dream that he took over the world (Shi'fu).

There are others...

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:23 AM
There were more.... The one where Jack infiltrate's that Trust SG team, Avatar, The one where Teal'c is trapped in that game, When Jack and Sam got trapped in Antartica for the first time, When Jack got tortured by Ba'al, The one where Sha're died, the one where Daniel had a dream that he took over the world (Shi'fu).

There are others...
You're example are not good. Daniel dream he took over the world is a pure sci-fi plot about the effect of having to much power. There was a topic and a plot. Avatar is also a sci-fi action plot. Same as O'Neill capture and tortured by Baal. In SG1, Atlantis there's probably 20 (or 10 or 22, whatever) character centric episodes. But its nowhere near the amount of SGU which almost all episodes are character development crap with not much of a plot.

aretood2
May 15th, 2010, 10:26 AM
You're example are not good. Daniel dream he took over the world is a pure sci-fi plot about the effect of having to much power. There was a topic and a plot. Avatar is also a sci-fi action plot. Same as O'Neill capture and tortured by Baal.

And Grace was about a ship being trapped by a living Nebula...Space ticks that make you hallucinate about aliens and mutinies on a space ship...and dead people...ever seen the movie "Event Horizon?" Sure no ticks, but the same concept.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:29 AM
And Grace was about a ship being trapped by a living Nebula...Space ticks that make you hallucinate about aliens and mutinies on a space ship...and dead people...ever seen the movie "Event Horizon?" Sure no ticks, but the same concept.
In SG1 and Atlantis there was about 2 character centric (were we learn about the character personal life) episode a year. In SGU, almost all of them are about the character drama with not much of a sci-fi plots.

I don't remember Even Horizon that much, but I'm pretty sure its not a character drama. There is a sci-fi horror plot.

aretood2
May 15th, 2010, 10:31 AM
In SG1 and Atlantis there was about 2 character centric (were we learn about the character personal life) episode a year. In SGU, almost all of them are about the character drama with not much of a sci-fi plots.

That really depends on the definition you prescribe to. There is no official "Sci Fi Plot" definition out there...not right answer...One man's trash is another's......etc.

12OzMouse
May 15th, 2010, 10:33 AM
You have to read between the lines. Scott was the one all broken up about her getting pregnant, and then "they" decided to get an abortion. That she didn't go through with it, tells us she didn't really want to, and thus it was more from Scott's angle. He didn't want the responsibility or cost of a child at that age. And when he showed up later, he was quick to toss money at her without considering her feelings; especially since he attached terms to the money. While she would have been grateful for the cash, she doesn't want to be beholden to him.


I'm all for reading between the lines, but in this particular situation, when there is actual dialogue to the contrary of what your thinking, I'm forced to go with what's been said. Episode 3 in the desert when Scott was having the encounter with the swirling entity. He's is recalling the conversation that he had with his guardian, the priest: This is that part of the transcript:


Out in the desert, Matthew Scott lies unconscious in the sand. Inside his mind, the priest speaks as they sit side by side in the pew at the church.

PRIEST: Do you love her?

SCOTT: She's not gonna have it.

PRIEST: You're certain?

SCOTT: She's sixteen. We barely even know each other.

PRIEST: What are you going to do?

(Matt shakes his head.)

SCOTT: I don't know ... about anything. I thought He was my calling, but now ...

(He shakes his head again, fighting back the tears.)

PRIEST: I am sorry.

SCOTT: Why? I'm the one who's weak. It's my fault.

PRIEST: No, it isn't.

SCOTT: It's not yours.

This particular exchange does support what your saying about Scott originally wanting to have the child. It also leads the viewer to believe that the GF told him she was aborting the child and that was the way it was going down. When I look at this situation, Scott wanting to have the child, being told that the decision was out of his hands, then having his first, "crisis of faith". Further, it is stated that this situation was the primary cause that he decided not to become a priest and joined the military.

I guess what I'm having a problem with is, knowing what he did at the time, then not having anymore contact with the girl, How could he have better handled the situation? Considering the situation that he's in, the fact that the girl did not have a security clearance, what else could he have done? In my mind, I have little doubt that if given the chance, Scott would have done the right thing originally if the girl had not lied to him in the first place. By mis-leading him, she set in motion a chain of events that ultimately led Scott to end up on the Destiny. After receiving the letter, the first thing he did was go to the girl. If his heart wasn't in the right place, I think the easiest thing to do would have been to toss the letter in the trash and forget about it.

When you mention stipulations attached to the money he was giving her, well, he was just hoping that she would pursue her desire to go to school, rather than having to make ends meet by being a stripper. I mean, it's not like he said, ok, if you keep on stripping, your not getting the money. In reading between the lines, I think he was just trying to make it clear to her that with the money, she wouldn't need to leave her kid alone at night while she's getting her G-string stuffed with money.

Just my opinion, but I think he did the best he could in the situation that he was in. With James and really with any relationship, you never really know what the other person is thinking. The old saying, it takes two to tango applies here. Not many unattached males are going to turn down the chance to do what Scott did. Also, we don't know what James relationship history is. Having a quickie in the closet with somebody that you have only known for a very limited time doesn't doesn't necessarily mean that you are in a committed relationship. In fact, and I agree that James obviously had stronger feelings about Scott, but does that closet action supposed to help him feel the same way? I'm not saying that I thought very highly of Scott when they got to Destiny and he acted like he didn't know her name. In fact, that particular exchange probably did more to damage Scott's perceived image than everything else that has occurred on the entire series so far.

I guess this is one of those character perceptions that is designed to split the fan base. That's good writing, so I've been told. But, it's definitely interesting to think about on an otherwise hot Saturday afternoon....

myhelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:35 AM
I liked the episode, maybe not the Season high, but good. And of course the story is not new with the hallucination, but the people who are involved are "new" and that alone made the thing interesting for me.
I mean, come on after maybe 708 episodes of Star Trek, over 300 Stargate eps. and a lot of SciFi shows, how often you get the same plot, when ST have done almost all of the story´s?

Don´t think Greer was the typical "Black male" stereotype. And I love the look he shared with Wray at the End.
To bad we had not seen more after Rush try´s too knock them all out. That is a thing that bother me a bit, no real feel of the resolving process, most of the time we get music montages at the end. (and also if personally I love emo music, I don´t need it for every episode)
I miss the Eli/Rush interaction a bit, but overall I enjoy the episode.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:36 AM
That really depends on the definition you prescribe to. There is no official "Sci Fi Plot" definition out there...not right answer...One man's trash is another's......etc.
Episode which are all about the personal life of the character are character drama. Pain was about Chloe grievance about her father, James love for Scott, Volker claustrophobia, etc.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:43 AM
Don´t think Greer was the typical "Black male" stereotype. And I love the look he shared with Wray at the End.
I don't know where this crap is coming from. But on TV and movies we almost never see angry and rough black males. It's always the good, professional and sympathetic black male. Somehow I would have wished Greer was really a psycho and that the plot given to Spencer was gave to him instead (beside the suicide obviously).

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 10:47 AM
I don't know where this crap is coming from. But on TV and movies we almost never see angry and rough black males. It's always the good, professional and sympathetic black male.
I'll have to disagree there, especially with the 'always' part. It's true that the stereotype is used less often, or is more subtly nuanced but the poster does have a valid point about looking at the role. I just don't happen to think it applies in the case of Greer. It doesn't discount the argument in its entirety though.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 10:50 AM
I'll have to disagree there, especially with the 'always' part. It's true that the stereotype is used less often, or is more subtly nuanced but the poster does have a valid point about looking at the role. I just don't happen to think it applies in the case of Greer. It doesn't discount the argument in its entirety though.
Personally, I'm tired of this good black male stereotype. I like a rough, angry even psycho black character from time to time. We almost never see those on TV and movies.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 10:59 AM
Personally, I'm tired of this good black male stereotype. I like a rough, angry even psycho black character from time to time. We almost never see those on TV and movies.

Training Day?
I'm sure there are tons of other occurences that someone can mention. The reason that you see the, as you put it, "good black male stereotype" is that for a very long time, the only role you'd see an African American in was derogatory. At the height of that, it became known as "blaxploitation" and was rightly considered offensive amongst people of color. Personally, I don't see it so much as a "good black male stereotype", but as "more accurate portrayal of people in general".

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 11:04 AM
Training Day?
I'm sure there are tons of other occurences that someone can mention. The reason that you see the, as you put it, "good black male stereotype" is that for a very long time, the only role you'd see an African American in was derogatory. At the height of that, it became known as "blaxploitation" and was rightly considered offensive amongst people of color. Personally, I don't see it so much as a "good black male stereotype", but as "more accurate portrayal of people in general".
I know. Its the same thing with woman. Before it was always the stay at home mom stereotype. Now its the wonderwoman stereotype. They are intelligent, professional are good in fight etc. I'm certainly glad they show James as an emotional soldier woman. Same as Chloe to be a woman which is not a warrior.

Canonfodder
May 15th, 2010, 11:11 AM
Haven't watched all the episode yet, but MIND ****! (can we swear?)

Giantevilhead
May 15th, 2010, 11:13 AM
I can't believe that they went with the ticks. I was hoping throughout the episode that the ticks would be a hallucination too, especially when Scott's tick disappeared.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 11:18 AM
I can't believe that they went with the ticks. I was hoping throughout the episode that the ticks would be a hallucination too, especially when Scott's tick disappeared.
... and that what would have caused the hallucinations would be the lamps. ;)

At first, I thought James was captured by the blue aliens, and placed in some kind of holodeck, alternate reality and that something about the lamps would come up. Maybe the captured people on the Destiny would realize the lamps don't behave like those on the real destiny or something.

jelgate
May 15th, 2010, 11:20 AM
I can't believe that they went with the ticks. I was hoping throughout the episode that the ticks would be a hallucination too, especially when Scott's tick disappeared.

My biggest cringe moment was get rid of the ticks. Yeah we're going to just pull this ticks that are attached to a person's brain with no brain damange. That makes a lot of sense:rollleys:

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 11:30 AM
My biggest cringe moment was get rid of the ticks. Yeah we're going to just pull this ticks that are attached to a person's brain with no brain damange. That makes a lot of sense:rollleys:
I took it the ticks were not attached to the brain, but released some kind of hallucinating toxin in the body.

jelgate
May 15th, 2010, 11:39 AM
I took it the ticks were not attached to the brain, but released some kind of hallucinating toxin in the body.

If that was the case the hallucinations should have continued for a time after TJ removed them

wargrafix
May 15th, 2010, 11:40 AM
Horray! Rush stabbed the most annoying character on the ship! He deserves a medal. Her lesbian story should run its course soon.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 11:41 AM
If that was the case the hallucinations should have continued for a time after TJ removed them
Not necessarily. The toxin could metabolize very fast in the body. So without a continuous provision of toxin, it would quickly disappeared from the host body.

jelgate
May 15th, 2010, 11:51 AM
Not necessarily. The toxin could metabolize very fast in the body. So without a continuous provision of toxin, it would quickly disappeared from the host body.

Not that fast. It would still linger in the body. I don't care how fast it metabolizes the venom would not go away the second TJ removed the ticks

flobo
May 15th, 2010, 12:04 PM
This episode was my first complete disappointment with SGU. It was OK until when they revealed the trailer was fake and the blue aliens will not invade the ship. I was so disappointed that i lost interest in the remaining part of the episode.

Then there was the WTF moment in the end when they found a planet in the galactic void and no one told us what it was. I thought it mind be another hallucination, but i'm not sure.

Egle01
May 15th, 2010, 12:08 PM
This episode was my first complete disappointment with SGU. It was OK until when they revealed the trailer was fake and the blue aliens will not invade the ship. I was so disappointed that i lost interest in the remaining part of the episode.Nobody told you that aliens will be coming through the stargate for real. You made that assumption. That doesn't make the trailer fake.


Then there was the WTF moment in the end when they found a planet in the galactic void and no one told us what it was. I thought it mind be another hallucination, but i'm not sure.They're in another galaxy. Chloe said 'welcome to the new galaxy' or something close to it.

AndSoItBegins
May 15th, 2010, 12:22 PM
Personally, I'm tired of this good black male stereotype. I like a rough, angry even psycho black character from time to time. We almost never see those on TV and movies.

We also rarely ever see on TV :

Black guy as lead character (for an ensemble) .
Black guy as the problem solver.
Black guy who gets equal screen time and development as white leads
Black guy who gets the hot lady on the show
Black guy who saves the day
Black guy with the fully fleshed out background
Black guy as leader
Black guy as character who drives the plots
Black guy as the man with mysterious and interesting past.


On the movies that show up on SyFy we also get black guys (when they make an appearance) who never live up to the ending credits.

I could go on and on. You want to go there we can go there. The suggestion that black characters are somehow getting some sort of benefit (because they aren’t playing psychos) is absurd. It comes down to this…if you want a crazy, black, serial killer, with no redeemable qualities or whatever then lets have them. But lets balance it out as you do with white characters. In other words you have the white male leads, the white guy who saves the day, the white guy who gets the girl, the white guy with the interesting background, the white guy who drives the plot, etc., etc. to counterbalance the white bad guys who are on the screen. Give black characters that type of variety and I would have no problem whatsoever if you created a bunch of two dimensional, mustache-twirling black villains to go along with them. However the problem is these TV shows doesn’t typically do that.

This reminds me of those arguments that break out when the lone black character dies on a series and someone moans about it. Sure enough these days you find a bunch of posters who will then respond with something like “well, the writers killed off white characters too.” But what those responders don’t seem to get is that if you have 15 characters and 12 of them are white and the remaining three are “minorities” (black, Asian, non-white Hispanic), then it doesn’t matter if you kill off one or two white characters. You still have ten to eleven to work with (and more than likely amongst that group will be the LEAD CHARACTERS of the show). However if you kill off, say, the one Asian dude then that’s it for any Asian representation on the show.

Another thing that comes out of this ridiculous token casting of one actor/actress from a non-white race is that those characters unintentionally end up representing the entire race to some extent. For example on SGU if you don’t like Rush’s attitude there’s always Eli to balance that out. If you think Young is a bad leader then at least there’s Scott as maybe a better choice or Rush as a different choice altogether. No one white character ever represents white people because these shows tend to have a (vast) majority white cast or from time to time an all-white cast. But with a character like Greer what you have is the one lone black person on the show. Unless you want to include the black guy who does all the cooking but barely gets any lines . So if Greer is seen as having some pretty negative traits its amplified simply because he is the lone representation of black people. Again this is an unintentional consequence of casting. If TPTB had cast Young as a black male then the issue of Greer being angry and black becomes less of an issue because Young would present a different view of a black individual as a contrast. The same also if, say, Eli or Scott had been cast as a black male. But that’s not what happened. It would be interesting to see the original casting calls to see whether or not TPTB were even opened to the idea of non-white males auditioning for the four main male roles (Young, Rush, Scott, Eli). When the one role to be cast with a black performer (who also happens to be very gifted) is the role of a soldier with a huge chip on his shoulder and anger issues you will get folks who are weary of such a portrayal. Plain and simple. Personally I think Jamil overcomes the stereotypes and the limitations with his performances so the whole anger issue doesn’t personally bother me as much.

And by the way in defense at those who take issue wit being upset by the angry, black stereotype I must ask is there point of view less tolerable than those who hate to see females portrayed as damsels in distress who need men to save them? There isn’t as much teeth gnashing when folks say they object to the lack of strong, capable, decisive females roles. Its no different than when people don’t have much use for caricatures of non-white characters on TV shows.

So, Zelix, if you wanted some black dude to play Spencer are you just okay with having multiple black actors/actresses playing a few of the main roles for this show as well? He more three dimensional roles. Because last tie I checked Spencer was never the one white male on the show. Why ask for black people to play the simplistic, knucklehead roles if they can’t play the three dimensional lead roles as well. We’ll see true progress in Hollywood when black actors/actresses are cast as both.

Sorry to get off topic, folks.

AndSoItBegins
May 15th, 2010, 12:28 PM
This episode was my first complete disappointment with SGU. It was OK until when they revealed the trailer was fake and the blue aliens will not invade the ship. I was so disappointed that i lost interest in the remaining part of the episode.

How was the trailer fake? Sounds like you faked yourself out. The trailers don't and shouldn't reveal the twists and turns of the plot. And I’m thankful the aliens didn’t invade the ship. We don’t need the blue aliens to be overused at this point. Leave them for other storylines down the road. It sounds as if you judged the episode negatively because not of hw the ep was written but because the episode turned out not to be what you hoped it would be about. How about judging the episode strictly on its own terms?


Then there was the WTF moment in the end when they found a planet in the galactic void and no one told us what it was. I thought it mind be another hallucination, but i'm not sure.

I didn’t view it like that. I viewed it as the crew getting back to business as usual but a weariness had crept on them with the reminder, by the ticks, that these trips to unknown planets can bring unknown dangers and consequences. Did anyone else feel that way?

AndSoItBegins
May 15th, 2010, 12:29 PM
Horray! Rush stabbed the most annoying character on the ship! He deserves a medal. Her lesbian story should run its course soon.

Seriously does the lesbian angle bother you? I only ask because you felt the need to mention that particular element?

s09119
May 15th, 2010, 12:36 PM
Horray! Rush stabbed the most annoying character on the ship! He deserves a medal. Her lesbian story should run its course soon.

"Lesbian story"? This is someone's life, not some experimentation with sexuality.

Commander Zelix
May 15th, 2010, 12:56 PM
We also rarely ever see on TV :

My goal was not to offend anyone. But I think its crazy to say black people can't play the angry bad ass character or that woman can't be emotional and must not have flaws (like some journalist said). All kind of characters archetype should be playable by a diverse cast. I think Greer is a good character and Walker Smith play him right. I don't remember all the shows because I don't take notes of the ethnicity of the people. But I remember a black lead in "Day Break" and in the Syfy original movie "MegaFault". NCIS LA also got a black lead I think (I never watched the show). I think it's worse when you say "black can't play that type of character" or that "woman cant be that way". So yes, I think Greer would have been more fun as a character if he was really a psycho (with some redeeming value so its believable that he's a army Sergeant) and had some of the Spencer's storyline and it has nothing to do with his race or ethnicity.

flobo
May 15th, 2010, 01:23 PM
Nobody told you that aliens will be coming through the stargate for real. You made that assumption. That doesn't make the trailer fake.


The trailer was still sequenced to fool people with Chloe saying "We're not safe, are we ?" and then showing the aliens coming thought the gate.
They made it look like it would really be happening. That's fooling the viewer to me, it makes me think of a old Voyager trailer when they implied Picard would be in an episode while in the end, he wasn't.

PG15
May 15th, 2010, 01:31 PM
The trailer was still sequenced to fool people with Chloe saying "We're not safe, are we ?" and then showing the aliens coming thought the gate.
They made it look like it would really be happening. That's fooling the viewer to me, it makes me think of a old Voyager trailer when they implied Picard would be in an episode while in the end, he wasn't.

Never trust a trailer. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverTrustATrailer)

flobo
May 15th, 2010, 01:49 PM
You're right, i shouldn't have. :)

I didn't even get before reading this topic that they were in a new galaxy from the start of the episode and that the ticks were in fact NOT from the "Lost" planet. If you ask me, the galaxy transition was terrible, they could at least have referenced it.

PG15
May 15th, 2010, 02:02 PM
Chloe mentioned that they were in a new galaxy in a very quick bit of dialogue.

Stormtrooper
May 15th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Man, what a horrible filler episode! Ticks? Seriously? Lt. James snuffing that moron was the only thing that didn't suck. So Destiny has already crossed the void. That fast, huh? :S

The writers should have used the Faith episode to make the transition from one galaxy to the next. Faith would have been even more puzzling if Destiny had bumped into the artificial solar system in the void. They could have made it a two-parter, which would have allowed some planetary exploration, etc.

3/10

TinyTimm
May 15th, 2010, 03:01 PM
I was sort of annoyed with this episode until the last scene. It showed that they are willing to keep pushing on no matter what. I mean, yeah they could just stay safe on the ship but they have the cajones to keep exploring planets in search of a means to get home.

Thats what I took from that last scene. Any thoughts or other opinions?

_SocraticMethod
May 15th, 2010, 03:11 PM
I really liked the last scene and I completely agree with you. It was a difficult and very important decision on Young's part, and I respect him for how he came down on it. What I didn't like was the choice of music at the end - I really feel like it made the decision feel too blasé.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 15th, 2010, 03:21 PM
I agree with you. I liked that last scene. There was no excitement at the thought of another world and they had built up a sense of dread about the whole deal but the resolve to continue on in spite of that fear was a really great moment. It would have been very easy to choose not to go.

So, I'm a Young fan, but I really liked this as a Young moment, where he will not give up and, in his strength, he carries along those that might not have the strength to keep going, at least for the moment. That's some definite leadership skills there.

_SocraticMethod
May 15th, 2010, 03:21 PM
I found this episode quite dull... it wasn't terrible, just boring. Highlights for me were Robert Carlyle's performance, and the last 10 minutes of the episode. I especially liked Young's decision at the end (forum thread "The Ending" (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/74919-The-Ending?p=11509877&viewfull=1#post11509877)). And, once again, not a fan of the music in this ep...

aretood2
May 15th, 2010, 03:33 PM
Man, what a horrible filler episode! Ticks? Seriously? Lt. James snuffing that moron was the only thing that didn't suck. So Destiny has already crossed the void. That fast, huh? :S

The writers should have used the Faith episode to make the transition from one galaxy to the next. Faith would have been even more puzzling if Destiny had bumped into the artificial solar system in the void. They could have made it a two-parter, which would have allowed some planetary exploration, etc.

3/10
That would actually have been waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy better. A rogue star system between two galaxies....

Brinzy
May 15th, 2010, 03:43 PM
I thought the episode was pretty decent. While not the best they've put out so far, it by far wasn't the worst. I did enjoy seeing all the emotions manifesting for the characters, especially their fears. It's a good attempt at making them more human. If you want to read all my thought's on the episode you can read my full SGU: Pain Review here (http://sff-hub.blogspot.com/2010/05/painful-universe.html).

Replicator Todd
May 15th, 2010, 04:18 PM
I really, really, REALLY, loved the ending of "Pain" might be in my top favorite scenes of SGU. The rest was pretty....meh. IMO.

Callie
May 15th, 2010, 04:19 PM
Before going off to join the search for Greer, Young has a quick conversation with TJ. At the end of it there’s a long shot of the two of them with Lisa Park in the foreground, who is pulling a really weird face and apparently didn’t realise that she was on camera at the time!

When Scott reports from outside the locked storage room, there’s a brief scene of Young walking along looking like he’s geared up for all-out war and surrounded by stormtroopers, but he never makes it to the storage room and we don’t see him in that gear again. It was either the most useless shot ever, or we’ll see him dressed like that again in a future episode and the editor of this one borrowed a bit because he needed some extra footage.

Major_Griff
May 15th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Yeah it was cool to see them hesitant of using the gate, but go ahead anyway since they need supplies. It's cool to see the more long term ramifications of bringing trouble back through the gate.

Avenger
May 15th, 2010, 04:34 PM
You could see the hesitation in Young before he called Scott on the radio. I thought it was great.

SGalisa
May 15th, 2010, 04:48 PM
...Rush is scared ****less of being abducted, etc.

Rush seems to be super-terrified of those horrid blue aliens. The fear that was in his eyes when he hid in his room, not to also mention nearly getting drowned in the water tank (he screamed!), and at the scene near the end reinforces the intensity of that extreme degree.

He's usually fairly calm and logical in other crisis moments.. but the blue alien creatures really seem to terrify him. Is he afraid of the aliens, or what they can steal from his mind -- which may include stealing or destroying the Destiny ship?

jelgate
May 15th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Rush seems to be super-terrified of those horrid blue aliens. The fear that was in his eyes when he hid in his room, not to also mention nearly getting drowned in the water tank (he screamed!), and at the scene near the end reinforces the intensity of that extreme degree.

He's usually fairly calm and logical in other crisis moments.. but the blue alien creatures really seem to terrify him. Is he afraid of the aliens, or what they can steal from his mind -- which may include stealing or destroying the Destiny ship?I think more then anything he is afraid of the aliens. Being tortured like he was he is afraid to go through that whole ordeal again

Kentucky
May 15th, 2010, 05:25 PM
I thought this scene was awesome. It kind of summed up SGU for me.

SG7
May 15th, 2010, 06:02 PM
Oh and the music has been really awful. They should get like Lifehouse, or maybe even a Bon Jovi song or something......well that would be the entire budget for the ep. lol.

Indeed! Lifehouse, John Cale, Beth Nielson Chapman, Snow Patrol. Just to name a few I wouldn't mind.

SG7
May 15th, 2010, 06:16 PM
I was hoping this would be a more TJ-centric role and, while we saw her a lot, we didn't get to see much of her, if that makes sense. There was a lovely little moment between her and Young, when both of them were talking about the same thing - concern for her condition - while not coming right out and saying it. It was sweet and not over the top. They're both being professional but the care is still there. I also liked that he didn't leave her there alone until he had to.

That made complete sense to me! I loved that we got to see a lot of her as she was treating everyone who was in the infirmary. I too loved the little interactions between her and Young. He was making sure that she was ok through everything. Even suggested to her to go to her quarters for a bit. To which she indicated that she'd be fine. That she wanted to stay there and help the others. I also noticed that over the radio, he called her just TJ and not by her military rank. :)

BobbyScars
May 15th, 2010, 06:20 PM
I think that this episode proves just how out of touch some of these people who give out awards are, this episode has been hailed by many here as the worst of the series and yet we find awards being nominated for it. Jennifer Spence had what, two maybe three scenes and she gets a nomination for supporting actress, WTF?! Damn this is exactly like Slumdog Millionaire getting the Best Picture Oscar.

the fifth man
May 15th, 2010, 06:22 PM
I thought this was a pretty good episode. Not SGU's best, but not bad by any standards.

the fifth man
May 15th, 2010, 06:24 PM
I really liked the ending. It made me smile. SGU is definitely coming along very nicely.

SG7
May 15th, 2010, 06:42 PM
I thought on the last ep (Sabotage), they were about to go between galaxies and there was going to be a big empty space, with talk of rationing supplies until they arrive. At the end of this ep, they get out of FTL and find a planet. Did the time skip or what? It seems like the previous episode didn't happen.....

I was thinking exactly the same thing. Where did the time go? Where did that long gab between galaxies go?

Krisz
May 15th, 2010, 06:54 PM
There was one intriguing notion introduced in this episode that I wish they developed more, which was how they may need to limit gate travel if bad stuff like this keeps happening, introduced in the last scene. At the time, it felt like it came out of nowhere - they've had problems offworld before but never had this thought. However, it was still a very very interesting thought. IMHO they should've had one of Scott, Chloe, or Eli mention how dangerous being offworld is after their recent experience, maybe at the beginning of the episode, just to bookend it and make it more of a theme of the episode. I mean, it's something that's never really explored (though there was a brief mention at the end of SG1's "Bad Guys") in the past SG series since they were about exploration, but really, other planets are dangerous - is it really wise to go to every one that Destiny shows them?



This was actually the thing that really stood out for me in the episode, (and Rush going nuts!) even though it was almost a quick throw away observation at the end of the episode! I guess that’s what made it all the more interesting an idea. Looks like the notion of exploration that drove SG-1 is being turned on its head in SGU, and exploration is turning into a ‘not such a wise thing always’ idea. I like the introduction of this element of fear into SGU, really not what I would have expected to see in Stargate, so it makes it more of a surprise and I hope it is developed more. Will the fear take hold more as they lose more people and escape disasters by the skin of their teeth, or will they continue the ‘stiff upper lip’ attitude displayed by Young after his moments hesitation on thinking about this before ordering the formation of the next away team, and then continue assembling the away teams at every stop.

I too wished that the blue lanterns were the cause of the hallucinations, put there by some other aliens to ‘observe’ the behaviour of the Destiny’s occupants. It would have been an opening for yet another curious alien force, but no, *sigh* we got ‘bugs’ again. When they tried to remove the tick from Scott I felt I was watching SGA’s ‘Thirty Eight Minutes’ again!

SG7
May 15th, 2010, 06:58 PM
Agreed, but they could have added something that allowed us to realize a few weeks or months had passed (TJ...)

Ditto. Seeing how far along she was in her pregnancy made it look like very little time had passed.


Oddly enough, I rather enjoyed this episode. Definitely wasn't perfect, but I sorta like eps where characters go insane as it gives you insight into what makes them tick....

Pun intended?!? ;)


I have a feeling that perhaps we just don't know enough about Eli to be able to guess what his greatest fear is yet. Actually, while I'm sure his mom is near the top of the list, I'm thinking it's dying. Like in "Time," the whole conversation with Rush. Maybe not enough bad stuff has actually happened to Eli yet for us to get a powerful hallucination out of him?

I think that his greatest fear is failure. Based on what I have seen of his character. He appears to be one that has to be led to do anything. Is quite content with what ever is going on in his life. Even if it isn't anything productive (ie @ home playing video games)

SG7
May 15th, 2010, 07:20 PM
Young and TJ had a touching moment or two where he wants to protect her (and the baby) from any form of harm, and she has to assure him that they will be okay.

Mostly, the episode felt like filler. Maybe it could have been improved by only having Rush infected and actually trying to sabotage or take over Destiny. Greer would be the only one who realizes this (at least at the start), and due to his actions everyone thinks he is the crazy one..... nah, that's not any better.

regards,
G.

Agreed with the TJ/Young scenes. There he was wantng to protect her and make sure she's ok. And her reassuring him that her and the baby will be fine. Absolutely loved those scenes! :)


How about you people stop reading every possible spoiler beforehand, and see the episodes unbiased :confused:. It might improve your viewer experience.

Peace :cool:.

I have a "no spoiler" policy for myself. I don't get to see the new episodes until Saturday nites, so I don't even come into the new episode section until I've seen the episode.


This episode was well, fine to me. I was just a little disappointed because I felt sort of it did not feel like this was the best time for a filler episode.

Better than doing a "flashback of scenes from episodes past" episode which I am surprised we haven't seen yet in SGU.


and dancing!
come on, you can't have a decent musical episode without dancing :)

In Brody's Bar with that hooker pole that Chloe will be working.....??? ;)


How was the trailer fake? Sounds like you faked yourself out. The trailers don't and shouldn't reveal the twists and turns of the plot. And I’m thankful the aliens didn’t invade the ship. We don’t need the blue aliens to be overused at this point. Leave them for other storylines down the road. It sounds as if you judged the episode negatively because not of hw the ep was written but because the episode turned out not to be what you hoped it would be about. How about judging the episode strictly on its own terms?

I used to watch "ER" and it was the same way. TPTB would always "edit" a trailer to imply one thing and have it be something else. They would cut to a particular character saying one line and then cut to something else and you would be given a bias take on the previews. I never saw the trailer but am assuming that one moment of the trailer probably showed the part where Rush hallucinates seeing the blue aliens coming through the gate. Thus giving us the impression that the ship would be under attack.

PG15
May 15th, 2010, 07:57 PM
I think that this episode proves just how out of touch some of these people who give out awards are, this episode has been hailed by many here as the worst of the series and yet we find awards being nominated for it. Jennifer Spence had what, two maybe three scenes and she gets a nomination for supporting actress, WTF?! Damn this is exactly like Slumdog Millionaire getting the Best Picture Oscar.

Ok first, there's a reason there are different catagories for awards - even if the overall reception to the whole episode may be bad, it could still have aspects of it that were great.

Secondly, Jennifer Spence was nominated for her role in "Life", not "Pain".

And she was damn fine in "Life". ;)

Stormtrooper
May 15th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Secondly, Jennifer Spence was nominated for her role in "Life", not "Pain".

And she was damn fine in "Life". ;)

Julia Benson was nominated for her role in Pain. Coincidentally, Lt. James smurfs imaginary Scott in the episode.

How about these Leo Awards, huh? RAWR!

:O

Briangate78
May 15th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Julia Benson was nominated for her role in Pain. Coincidentally, Lt. James smurfs imaginary Scott in the episode.

How about these Leo Awards, huh? RAWR!

:O

She was really good in the other scenes as well. But I think Rush and Greer's hallucination was the strongest since they intertwined with poor Camille in the middle, lol.

Daro
May 15th, 2010, 09:03 PM
I thought all the actors involved did a great job, as always. The plot was skimpy and far too simple to support the structure they built on it, so the episode is, overall, not too great. But I can understand why the actors got nominated for awards. Some of the best moments to show great acting skills don't happen when the plot is best, or at its most intense moment.

EllieVee
May 15th, 2010, 09:36 PM
Was the episode also implying that Scotsman are violent madman ... <snip>?

Hmmmm ... ;)


Rush seems to be super-terrified of those horrid blue aliens. The fear that was in his eyes when he hid in his room, not to also mention nearly getting drowned in the water tank (he screamed!), and at the scene near the end reinforces the intensity of that extreme degree.

He's usually fairly calm and logical in other crisis moments.. but the blue alien creatures really seem to terrify him. Is he afraid of the aliens, or what they can steal from his mind -- which may include stealing or destroying the Destiny ship?

My view is that he was on the alien ship for better part of a week probably and had his mind invaded as well as his body (the tracking device). It's highly doubtful that the aliens would have used anaesthesia while putting it in. Why would they and even if they did, would it have worked on a human? My thoughts are that in Divided when he wakes up during the 'surgery', he's not asking TJ, etc, what they're doing, he's asking the aliens. When Young broke him out of the tank, he was clearly terrified. I think it's physical and mental terror.

General Jumper One
May 15th, 2010, 10:06 PM
You would think that from the beginning they would've a very thorough medical exam like in SG-1

EllieVee
May 15th, 2010, 10:11 PM
You would think that from the beginning they would've a very thorough medical exam like in SG-1

Maybe they had a medical exam but TJ is not a doctor and their medical equipment resources appear somewhat limited. Would people ordinarily look for ticks?

reddevil18
May 15th, 2010, 10:56 PM
This whole episode was a bunch of "Meh" to me.

The only things I really enjoyed were Carlyle once he went nuts(his skulking around and peering around corners had me laughing out loud) and the editing during the hallucinations. Oh, and crazy!Greer was also fun, especially the "Stand down!/Permission to use deadly force?" exchange. But otherwise, it was blah. I just wasn't feeling it.

Lahela
May 15th, 2010, 11:02 PM
I'll add my "me too". In fact, it will go down as one of Stargate's finest moments for me. So much dread, so much grim determination, so much going on because it's just what they have to do - it encapsulates what Stargate is. And it was played so utterly brilliantly by RC and LF. Awesome.

EllieVee
May 15th, 2010, 11:23 PM
This whole episode was a bunch of "Meh" to me.

The only things I really enjoyed were Carlyle once he went nuts(his skulking around and peering around corners had me laughing out loud) and the editing during the hallucinations. Oh, and crazy!Greer was also fun, especially the "Stand down!/Permission to use deadly force?" exchange. But otherwise, it was blah. I just wasn't feeling it.

And how are you feeling otherwise? Haven't seen you around for a bit.

Daro
May 15th, 2010, 11:34 PM
Hmmmm ... ;)



My view is that he was on the alien ship for better part of a week probably and had his mind invaded as well as his body (the tracking device). It's highly doubtful that the aliens would have used anaesthesia while putting it in. Why would they and even if they did, would it have worked on a human? My thoughts are that in Divided when he wakes up during the 'surgery', he's not asking TJ, etc, what they're doing, he's asking the aliens. When Young broke him out of the tank, he was clearly terrified. I think it's physical and mental terror.

I agree. There's absolutely no reason to think that the aliens would have used anesthesia. They were working fast, with little or no concern for the subject's mental trauma. If I came across some alien and for whatever reason had to cut into him/her/it, I wouldn't dare risk using any drug I'd try on a human, because the physiology is completely different here. And there's no reason to believe the smurfs have encountered any human beings before, so no time to test it out.
That said, while I think he was tortured physically by that event, I think most of what he underwent is psychological, as I tend to assume that the mind-reading devices are as invasive and traumatic as possible, something akin to being raped and probably worse.
I also thought in "Divided" that he was having a flashback to the aliens. I wonder if they are going to keep showing this problem, if the blue aliens are going to just go away because the Destiny left their galaxy? I certainly hope not. Fun as it is to watch Rush smack the hell out of Greer (revenge, at last, for all the times Greer has roughed Rush up without reason,) I'd rather see Rush destroy a few aliens while he's perfectly lucid. He just doesn't get enough opportunities to be violent.

Oh, and *Subversion Spoilers!* Since the spoilers released on the upcomming three-part season finale say Rush will be tortured for a prolonged period of time by the Lucian Alliance, I wonder what that will do to him overall? In the second season, how will being traumatized in similar fashion twice affect Rush?

reddevil18
May 15th, 2010, 11:39 PM
And how are you feeling otherwise? Haven't seen you around for a bit.Oh, I'm fine. I was just tied up to a chair in the mods' basement for a while.

reddevil18
May 15th, 2010, 11:47 PM
Yeah, it was okay.

EllieVee
May 16th, 2010, 12:32 AM
Oh, I'm fine. I was just tied up to a chair in the mods' basement for a while.

Been there, done that. ;)

Egle01
May 16th, 2010, 01:03 AM
I was sooo wrong when I said "Sabotage" was the worst episode. This was bad, really bad. SGU is getting back to the SG's roots and I was afraid of that. I hate old SG style so much, so if this is going to continue, I will stop watching SGU.Hasn't it been said that last three episodes is very much classic SG?


There was nothing I liked in this episode. I was almost sleeping, used FF button few timesNot aimed at you, but I don't get people, who say there was nothing they liked etc and used FF button. Who knows what you missed when you didn't watch all the ep properly?

globex
May 16th, 2010, 01:49 AM
In terms of suspense and thriller, it was a decent episode.Although, a tick? :lol: But overall an improvement from last week's episode, (Sabotage-which felt like watching another life episode).
7.0/10 for me.

The sex scene at the beginning along with the 2 sequence of horrible trash music wanted me to change to another channel as they added NOTHING to the storyline hardly anything.

EllieVee
May 16th, 2010, 02:04 AM
In terms of suspense and thriller, it was a decent episode.Although, a tick? :lol: But overall an improvement from last week's episode, (Sabotage-which felt like watching another life episode).
7.0/10 for me.

Could have been worse, an exploding tumour, for instance.

Ser Scot A Ellison
May 16th, 2010, 03:30 AM
I understand why people like it, but really, what choice do they have? They will run out of supplies if they do not get more from the worlds they connect to via the Stargate. If they stop traveling through the Stargate they die. It's as simple as that.

Artemis-Neith
May 16th, 2010, 03:41 AM
I liked the contemplative atmosphere at the end. This is something I thought about since the first episodes, they should do any kind of decontamination after returning form a foreign planet. Even without the adequate equipment to do that properly, they can look at least for insect-like aliens to be visible with the naked eye.

hisg1fans
May 16th, 2010, 04:25 AM
My first thought was "wasn't this an SGA episode?"

How unnerving though. And rather embarrassing. Other people knowing your worst/most powerful fear or emotion and actually seeing you acting upon it. Now people may question all actions of others, and characters may question their own actions too.

Even though the ticks are gone, can anybody really trust they are acting as their own true selves. Maybe the people who weren't affected will dodge the suspicions.

I can see the military personnel continuing with off-world missions, but will the civilians chicken out?

icsteffi
May 16th, 2010, 04:35 AM
How unnerving though. And rather embarrassing. Other people knowing your worst/most powerful fear or emotion and actually seeing you acting upon it. Now people may question all actions of others, and characters may question their own actions too.



Seriously. So does everyone (-->Chloe) know about what James' hallucination was? Awkward, if word of that gets around. I hope Wray can forgive Greer, too.

Anyways, my least favorite episode so far. But thats okay.

Sp!der
May 16th, 2010, 04:43 AM
yees it was kinda meh but i loved several things, the chloe/dad/eli thing, the tj/young thing and of course the greer/wray/rush thing. Wray was the only one who did not halucinate right? And EEls at the end made me smile ;) the song in the beginning ... meh... James I dont like her...

Smooth
May 16th, 2010, 05:21 AM
Space ticks?..... C'mon. It was such a filler episode. Nothing resolved, don't feel like I learned anything about the characters that I didn't already know. Overall I liked most of the acting though. I've enjoyed the second half much more than the first, but this is the low point in MY opinion. The one thing that I think could have saved it, would have been if some of the hallucinations were not in fact hallucinations and they had much bigger problems than just bugs and people freaking out to deal with.

Q: Aren't they supposed to be in the void between galaxies right now? Previously there was such a big deal about getting the stranded team back before they left the galaxy that they were in, then the power issues.... Which led me to believe that they were leaving right then. At the end of Pain, they stop for a gate. A rogue planet between galaxies that that is somehow hospitable enough for them to go to, or was the time frame for the galaxy jump a little overblown? I realize the crew didn't have exact information on when they would be leaving, just guesses. It just seemed odd that there was a gate stop at this point to me.

jelgate
May 16th, 2010, 06:45 AM
Hasn't it been said that last three episodes is very much classic SG?

Not aimed at you, but I don't get people, who say there was nothing they liked etc and used FF button. Who knows what you missed when you didn't watch all the ep properly?Personally even the worst episodes despite being bad have some little bit of a redeeming moment and scene even if they are overall bad. Except maybe Family Ties:P

Briangate78
May 16th, 2010, 06:48 AM
This whole episode was a bunch of "Meh" to me.

The only things I really enjoyed were Carlyle once he went nuts(his skulking around and peering around corners had me laughing out loud) and the editing during the hallucinations. Oh, and crazy!Greer was also fun, especially the "Stand down!/Permission to use deadly force?" exchange. But otherwise, it was blah. I just wasn't feeling it.

That was really cool. He stabs Wray, knocks over Greer, and begins attacking everyone else. That was just.............crazy! It was a decent enough stand alone ep, but you are right, it was nothing to write home about.

Briangate78
May 16th, 2010, 06:48 AM
Personally even the worst episodes despite being bad have some little bit of a redeeming moment and scene even if they are overall bad. Except maybe Family Ties:P

Sadly jel, SGU cannot afford anymore mediocre eps. But what is mediocre to you and I could be amazing to other people watching the series, we just don't know.

jelgate
May 16th, 2010, 06:53 AM
Sadly jel, SGU cannot afford anymore mediocre eps. But what is mediocre to you and I could be amazing to other people watching the series, we just don't know.

This has nothing to do with how SGU is performing and what it can afford and what it can't. Just that every episode whatever its quality is has some moment of a good scene or moment

12OzMouse
May 16th, 2010, 07:16 AM
Wasn't this the episode where in his blog, Mallozzi said that we would see Scott at his worst and his best was in Water? Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else, but if not, I didn't see anything in this one that particularly distinguished Scott as anything but his, "normal" self. What was it in Pain that justified that comment?

Major_Griff
May 16th, 2010, 07:18 AM
I liked the contemplative atmosphere at the end. This is something I thought about since the first episodes, they should do any kind of decontamination after returning form a foreign planet. Even without the adequate equipment to do that properly, they can look at least for insect-like aliens to be visible with the naked eye.

Well I know on SG-1 it was established (but not regularly shown) that all teams would report to Dr. Fraiser for examination when returning from offworld. I imagine that procedure has been kept up on Destiny, and TJ just missed the ticks on her initial examination of the away team.

Briangate78
May 16th, 2010, 07:22 AM
This has nothing to do with how SGU is performing and what it can afford and what it can't. Just that every episode whatever its quality is has some moment of a good scene or moment

*sigh* whatever floats your boat, not going to get into an endless arguement with you.


Wasn't this the episode where in his blog, Mallozzi said that we would see Scott at his worst and his best was in Water? Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else, but if not, I didn't see anything in this one that particularly distinguished Scott as anything but his, "normal" self. What was it in Pain that justified that comment?

Yeah, I guess Joe M was referring to him being dead. To me that is his best. lol. I don't like the character. I did like Chloe in this ep a little, but she still needs a lot of work. She was the most useful in "Lost". This episode was touching with her father but the whole "No, leave the alien tick on me" was kinda stupid. lol.

jelgate
May 16th, 2010, 07:28 AM
Wasn't this the episode where in his blog, Mallozzi said that we would see Scott at his worst and his best was in Water? Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else, but if not, I didn't see anything in this one that particularly distinguished Scott as anything but his, "normal" self. What was it in Pain that justified that comment?

Probably meant the hallucination of him that James had. Scott is a real jerk to her in that regard

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 16th, 2010, 07:43 AM
Wasn't this the episode where in his blog, Mallozzi said that we would see Scott at his worst and his best was in Water? Maybe I'm mixing it up with something else, but if not, I didn't see anything in this one that particularly distinguished Scott as anything but his, "normal" self. What was it in Pain that justified that comment?

Jel beat me to it but yeah, in James' hallucination, Scott is a real ...well, I'll keep that to myself, but he's definitely not at his best

YoshiKart64
May 16th, 2010, 07:55 AM
Up until the murdering she wasn't having the worst hallucination ever though was she?

12OzMouse
May 16th, 2010, 08:01 AM
Sometimes I have a difficult time deciding when Mallozzi is making a comment tongue and cheek and when he's saying something that is in fact, insightful. Guess this was one of those times!

Chloe has used up her allotment of, it's my right to be stupid, but don't hold it against me later, type of behavior. Eli's lovesick puppy routine is also wearing thin with me. But I guess that's what their characters are designed to do. On one hand you have this gritty show complete with flawed personalities and on the other they seem to never change, despite all they've been though. You feed me a diet of gruel for 3 or 4 months and I guarantee I'd be a changed person, let alone everything else that has happened!

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 16th, 2010, 08:16 AM
Up until the murdering she wasn't having the worst hallucination ever though was she?

nope, it looked pretty good until that point :)

Lahela
May 16th, 2010, 08:29 AM
Up until the murdering she wasn't having the worst hallucination ever though was she?

But maybe the way it played out was the way it was "supposed to be", the way her brain made it so bad - getting something she wanted so badly but losing it in such a horrific way. A bit like Scott and Chloe's hallucinations.

Phenom
May 16th, 2010, 08:42 AM
I had to force myself to watch all of this ep. Can't love them all I guess.

Phenom
May 16th, 2010, 08:45 AM
What else are they going to do? Sit on the ship forever? Sure the mood was a bit down after they almost killed each other but that was about it. I didn't think it had anything to do with the gate or going off world again.

RedXian
May 16th, 2010, 01:34 PM
In the scene when Rush approached Wray saying they needed to talk, just before Young interrupted. I got the distinct feeling he intending to tell her what happened between him and Perry while she was inhabiting Wrays body.

Did anyone else get that feeling?

eliteaceman
May 16th, 2010, 01:50 PM
But i was wondering at this point in universe... where is atlantis?

Do they have stones too?

Is it still on earth?

Did it take off?

The world may never know... maybe they could give us a hint or something since its been months they have been on destiny.

escyos
May 16th, 2010, 02:36 PM
But i was wondering at this point in universe... where is atlantis?

Do they have stones too?

Is it still on earth?

Did it take off?

The world may never know... maybe they could give us a hint or something since its been months they have been on destiny.

we dont know exactely where it is, chances are its still on earth. they wouldnt have any stones
chances are they are not going to mention Atlantis as it would mean that the Atlantis movie would have to fit in with this.

Commander Zelix
May 16th, 2010, 03:00 PM
On one hand you have this gritty show complete with flawed personalities and on the other they seem to never change, despite all they've been though. You feed me a diet of gruel for 3 or 4 months and I guarantee I'd be a changed person, let alone everything else that has happened!
In real life people seldom change.

jelgate
May 16th, 2010, 03:04 PM
In real life people seldom change.

I would be willing to bet its the opposite. People change all the time in reponse to the change of the enviroment

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2010, 03:07 PM
i would be willing to bet its the opposite. People change all the time in reponse to the change of the enviroment

me !!!!!

Pharaoh Atem
May 16th, 2010, 03:09 PM
atlantis is on earth till canon says otherwise.

pipi
May 16th, 2010, 03:14 PM
Maybe the city of Atlantis will attempt to meet up with Destiny. Would be an interesting plot line.

PG15
May 16th, 2010, 03:25 PM
Sometimes I have a difficult time deciding when Mallozzi is making a comment tongue and cheek and when he's saying something that is in fact, insightful. Guess this was one of those times!

Actually, that "at his best/worst" response came from Brian J. Smith himself when he did a guest Q&A on the blog:


“Out of the episodes you’ve read and/or shot so far, which do you think shows Matthew Scott at his best and at his worst?”

BJS: Water shows him at his best. Pain shows him at his worst.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/09/29/september-28-2009-actor-brian-j-smith-answers-your-questions-only-three-days-to-the-stargate-universe-premiere/

Commander Zelix
May 16th, 2010, 04:32 PM
I would be willing to bet its the opposite. People change all the time in reponse to the change of the enviroment
I wouldn't bet on it. If you talk to psychologist (or read) you will see that fundamentally people seldom change. They always repeat the same pattern again and again. But on TV and movies people often changes.

jelgate
May 16th, 2010, 04:40 PM
I wouldn't bet on it. If you talk to psychologist (or read) you will see that fundamentally people seldom change. They always repeat the same pattern again and again. But on TV and movies people often changes.

Thats just not true. One can not deny that some people never leave old habbits but a significant portion do change. Maybe not as much as people would like but its not so black and white.

Commander Zelix
May 16th, 2010, 04:44 PM
Thats just not true. One can not deny that some people never leave old habbits but a significant portion do change. Maybe not as much as people would like but its not so black and white.
Ok. Anyway I don't want to discourage anybody to change some aspect of their life. If you're an alcoholic you can change if you want without falling off the wagon. I just wanted to point out the discrepancy with the proportion of people changing on TV and movies against with real life.

SG7
May 16th, 2010, 05:55 PM
Space ticks?..... C'mon. It was such a filler episode. Nothing resolved, don't feel like I learned anything about the characters that I didn't already know. Overall I liked most of the acting though. I've enjoyed the second half much more than the first, but this is the low point in MY opinion. The one thing that I think could have saved it, would have been if some of the hallucinations were not in fact hallucinations and they had much bigger problems than just bugs and people freaking out to deal with.

Q: Aren't they supposed to be in the void between galaxies right now? Previously there was such a big deal about getting the stranded team back before they left the galaxy that they were in, then the power issues.... Which led me to believe that they were leaving right then. At the end of Pain, they stop for a gate. A rogue planet between galaxies that that is somehow hospitable enough for them to go to, or was the time frame for the galaxy jump a little overblown? I realize the crew didn't have exact information on when they would be leaving, just guesses. It just seemed odd that there was a gate stop at this point to me.

At least if it was meant to be filler, they didn't do the usual and have some lame plot that hinges on a whole episode of flashbacks of scenes in previous episodes. In this one we got to revisit the fears of those on board Destiny, showing that TPTB don't just spend one episode showing character details.

Encoder
May 16th, 2010, 06:26 PM
Bit of a slow one...but hey, these episodes just make the others 10 times better :P

:sheppard:

Meshakhad
May 16th, 2010, 06:36 PM
Much more character-focused than many eps. Not the best, but not bad either.

The best scenes were those between Chloe and her father. A lesser show would have had her convinced that her father was real - instead, they had her recognize the illusion for what it was, while still getting a chance to see her father again. I would have preferred if Chloe had been given more time - enough to properly say goodbye to her father. It would probably have done wonders for her emotional health.

SG7
May 16th, 2010, 07:13 PM
Bit of a slow one...but hey, these episodes just make the others 10 times better :P

:sheppard:

For those episodes that we don't like or find not find as enjoyable as the rest makes us appreciate and enjoy the ones that we do, all that much more. :)

Phenom
May 16th, 2010, 08:38 PM
At least if it was meant to be filler, they didn't do the usual and have some lame plot that hinges on a whole episode of flashbacks of scenes in previous episodes. In this one we got to revisit the fears of those on board Destiny, showing that TPTB don't just spend one episode showing character details.

Yeah top point this. I have never been a fan of flashback filler eps so this one sits quite nicely above them. Now lets just hope next week isn't a flashback ep.....

Chevron Atlantis
May 16th, 2010, 09:37 PM
I've noticed a lot less people coming on this forum. I guess people have moved away from watching SGU or this forum.

All the best Gateworld just saying that's all. Just reading through the spoilers and some of things being said here. It would've been nice if the Aliens could have mind control to make those hallucinations. I hope it gets better in season 2. They could've come up with something better rather than just ticks. Just saying that's all. And wow at these SGU hate sites Holy Cow! I've never seen so much hatred towards a show in my life.

MattSilver 3k
May 16th, 2010, 09:45 PM
I enjoyed the episode overall. Won't get into an overly flowery review this time around, but I enjoyed it, can see why others did not, but don't care. I'll admit that in my head I had a whole grand scenario planned out involving the aliens using the hallucinations (Having created them while in James's body back in Sabotage) as some sort of starting attack so they could figure out the gates and come through... but that's just one of those times when too much imagination and hype gets the better of you.

EllieVee
May 16th, 2010, 09:52 PM
I've noticed a lot less people coming on this forum. I guess people have moved away from watching SGU or this forum.

All the best Gateworld just saying that's all. Just reading through the spoilers and some of things being said here. It would've been nice if the Aliens could have mind control to make those hallucinations. I hope it gets better in season 2. They could've come up with something better rather than just ticks. Just saying that's all. And wow at these SGU hate sites Holy Cow! I've never seen so much hatred towards a show in my life.

I haven't noticed any less traffic in the SGU forums than there was previously ...?

Chevron Atlantis
May 16th, 2010, 10:04 PM
I haven't noticed any less traffic in the SGU forums than there was previously ...?

Well I'm just wondering where are all of the SGA Fans? That's who I was referring to. But Nvm I'm just saying that's all :D

General Jumper One
May 16th, 2010, 10:10 PM
How are they going off-ship if they're in the void?