PDA

View Full Version : 'Sabotage' (116) General Discussion



Pages : [1] 2

GateWorld
May 2nd, 2010, 01:59 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/116.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/graphics/116.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">UNIVERSE SEASON ONE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/116.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">SABOTAGE</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 116</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
When problems with the F.T.L. drive threaten to leave <I>Destiny</I> stranded, the crew calls upon an expert from Earth to help -- a quadriplegic woman who temporarily takes over Wray's body.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/universe/s1/116.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Azzers
May 7th, 2010, 08:22 PM
Wow, first post? Oddly, I didn't have anything better than this, I thought this thread was still disabled. :)

s09119
May 7th, 2010, 08:28 PM
One of the best episodes of the season thus far. This show just gets better and better...

Spimman
May 7th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Cool episode, even though I read all or most of the spoilers I was a little surprised...

Rush and Mandy didn't get it on...
Blue alien battle wasn't very epic...
Franklin was back...
Bromance was back in full...
Quite a bit of time went by...
Robot was awesome...
Franklin disappears...
Aliens did NOT dial into Destiny...
Young again seemed more likable for the 3rd week in a row...

Fairly exciting episode...watching it again right now...

General Jumper One
May 7th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Crazy ep with crazy repair bot then crazy Franklin

major davis
May 7th, 2010, 08:30 PM
Meh. 6.5 out of 10. :(

Daro
May 7th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Awesome, it's open!

I adore this episode. Unlike "Life," it managed to balance character growth with the overall plot, keeping us both interested in what was happening to the characters on an emotional level and in a state of suspense as far as the rest of the story. Very nicely done.

I was struck by how wonderful Rush was in this episode. I was afraid he and Perry were going to sleep together, and I would have considered that a very bad thing, considering Wray and all. But he, not she, was the one who raised first a moral and then an emotional reason not to. However, I'm worried he'll still get accused of it, considering how surprisingly and openly affectionate he was to her. That and TJ rudely barging into the room mid-hug, of course.

I was reminded, in the scene where Rush is trying to talk to Franklin, of the pilot when we saw Rush talking to Chloe after Sen. Armstrong died. I think the show's writers intentionally gave us small glimpses of Rush at his best in the beginning, and then went on to show him at his absolute worst. Now he's starting to redeem himself a little bit, and he's certainly much more likeable in this episode than any other, I think. I also loved that he tried so hard to keep Young from sitting in the chair. I was surprised by it, somewhat. Rush's conscience is far stronger now, and even if he was once nearly murdered by Young, he seems to have completely rejected notions of revenge.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 7th, 2010, 08:36 PM
Sabotage:

Young: there's a lost feeling to him but because he doesn't talk about it, it comes out in subtle moments. Like not shaving. It's a small thing but for such a military guy, that's a big deal. He seems slumped and smaller somehow, without the ones that he's lost. There's so much that he clearly needs to say but he's reserved and holds everything in. The letters that he's clearly written to TJ and Matthew should prove interesting.

Young and Rush: They're working together, “for the greater good”. Rush seemed unnerved/uneasy/surprised that Young would sit in the chair if it would save them. Rush keeping Young from sitting in the chair was a nice touch.

Young and TJ: Awkward, but that's to be expected. I've been there with that discomfort and can see it from both sides. I understand the need for Young to keep TJ close, keep her safe. That's hard wired into most guys and given their situation, I completely understand where Young is coming from. I also get TJ's position, where you have this guy that pees in a circle around you and won't let you do a thing. It can be maddening even when you get it. There aren't many moments between the two and I have the feeling that Young's got some very heavy thoughts. When he's talking to her though, he's always holding back on a smile, I have noticed that.

Scott/Eli/Chloe: I knew they would get back but it happened so fast that I kept expecting there to be more. When there wasn't more, my brain went looking for it. The comment when they gated in, about those on Destiny finding a way to let them gate back. There are lots of ways that could have been worded, so I find it interesting that it was worded that way, just after the act of sabotage. Were they sabotaged precisely to bring the three back? Poor Eli, feeling like a third wheel, that's awkward. I found his conversation with Amanda about Rush to be interesting as I didn't think he thought to little (openly) about Rush. He doesn't see Rush as likable, I suppose. Eli seems quite reserved in this episode, although he does seem to be fed up with the whole “Math Boy” thing. Scott and Greer hug---wheeeee! That was a really feel-good moment for me. I didn't want my favorite bromance to suffer, so I'm glad that happened.

Greer: Greer is simply full of awesome in so many ways. Whether it's shaving his head (I have a soft spot for Riddick, so the whole head shaving thing before trouble strikes just works for me), helping injured people get to the infirmary, asking TJ if she's okay, or taking charge when the attack happens, he's just solid in every way.

Rush/Amanda: Rush has changed since Human. He's less distant from the other members of the crew and there's less of an air of superiority in the things that he does. He seems more willing to listen to others and also more willing to 'share' Destiny, as in, not keeping what he knows to himself. A love interest based on intelligence alone is beautiful, and I loved that they both thought the other was interested in the other out of pity; it's humanizing to Rush that he sees himself that way. The kiss, the affection, was touching, as was his inability to go farther, although it's terribly unfortunate for Amanda. I wonder if Rush will do as he stated and find a way to bring her aboard again.

Wray and Franklin/James: There's an obvious parallel between Wray, being locked in a body and Franklin, being possibly fully aware and locked in a body that doesn't work. That Wray did it for so long? Handled very well. I really get that panic that Wray felt when her girlfriend was away for a longer time than expected, given the need she was in. I'm also glad that Wray (hopefully) didn't talk. If she did, I'm sure it would have been shown. I also like that just as Wray is being cared for, James took on the same duty for Franklin, being there for him for every moment. The sabotage itself was very curious. We find that it was the blues but the how of it was neatly done, where the use of James and or Franklin did it. Franklin sitting in the chair, by choice this time, a choice reaffirmed by Rush (something Rush really needed to do clearly this time!) and Young, and then disappearing from a locked room? That's a wonderful mystery and a half! The issues with James aren't at an end, I don't think, and neither are the issues with Franklin, who I believe may still be in the ship somehow.

The Robot!: How cool is that?! I had figured it was some sort of a maintenance thing but it's very cool that it's working now.

Okay, I've blathered on enough for one post...more later as I consider....

ps.. I loved the Wray kiss. I'm sure that will really make some people lose their minds and we'll hear no end of "won't someone think of the children!??!!!eleventy1!"

jelgate
May 7th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
I remember this episode being discussed months ago when the casting call for Amanda (then Eleanor) Perry came out. It made the notion of a crippled person seem very demeaning. And fandom doing what fandom does criticized and overreacted to the casting Perry call. But I kind of knew they were wrong. And for the most part I think I was right. The episode is not without its faults and it’s defiantly not the highlight in SGU (in fact its one of my least liked) but it was defiantly better then the negative hype that was spreading almost a year ago. You know where to go.

The teaser felt out of place except for the part where Rush told Young they would not cross the void between galaxies. I actually liked that scene. I ‘m talking about Young’s shaving scene and the subsequent speech in the gate room. That seemed completely pointless. I mean seriously we know Scott and company are left behind, do we really need a scene showing the explanation of them being left behind and the journey into another galaxy.

I object to Amanda Perry being the greatest expert on hyperdrives. Surely that title would belong to Carter from SG1. But given the logistics and budget it would take to get Amanda Tapping on Universe I’ll let it slide. Overall I liked her introduction and the difficulties it took for James and Wray to occupy a quadriplegics body. It shows some insight into the obstacles these kinds of people with those difficulties have. And I think especially Ming Na played a crippled woman quite. I may have thought those Earth scenes with Wray and Sharon were unnecessary and pointless but that does not escape the fact that Ming Na was very convincing as person with that kind of disability.

As for the FTL drive blowing up my first thought they were the S1 finale adversaries that I learned about from reading spoilers. Don’t worry I’ll leave those names silent for those of you who don’t like spoilers. And this is the wonderful about SGU. Unlike the other shows even with spoilers you as a viewer do not know what is happening. That is what makes SGU so interesting to watch. There is a high degree of unpredictability in it. Speaking of unpredictability I am wondering why the blowing up of the FTL drive caused Franklin to wake up like that. It’s a curious which I don’t think will ever be answered given what happened in the end of Sabotage but I’ll get to that later.

Moving on to the return to Scott, Eli, and Chloe. Since Destiny was still relatively close to the galaxy in the logical sense it was made obvious that they three of them would be able to dial Destiny and return. But from a story point of view it was mundane and easy. After all that struggling in Lost to return to Destiny it was just too easy for them to give up and magically show up. Like I said it made sense and all but I found it little too easy to accomplish.

Let’s try to put all this Amanda Perry development in one big paragraph since it really wasn’t the point of the episode. But it’s still an important aspect of the show. At the heart she is not a jerk but the sadness of her limitations did cloud Amanda like the moment she snapped at Amanda. Which given her situation on Earth is understandable. When you’re confined to a chair and need someone to do things uncripled people like me do every day its understandable you would want to experience those freedoms. And that is more then anything what Amanda Perry was about. A good person who does want to help the Destiny make it home but also wants to experience the life of what it is to be normal in the mobile sense. I think the scene with the crying Rush is proof of that. The way she was kind and sincere to Rush as he talked about the reliving of Gloria’s death. It showed that despite wanting to sleep with Rush (ewwwww) she was kind enough to see and help with his pain.

As the team went to check on “Eli’s Planet” as an evacuation site the aliens firing back at the gate was so predictable. I’ve watched enough Stargate to know when a character says for sure that everything is fine then you know well that everything is not fine so I kind of figured that the second Eli sent that KINO through the event horizon of the wormhole that something was going to be wrong. Now I did not think it was going to be the blue aliens but I had a feeling that something was going to be wrong. On tangent is the scene with Young and TJ arguing about her going off world. I kind of liked how this episode flowed. It shows us that despite this child how much tension and conflict there is between the two characters and more importantly how much they don’t see eye to eye because of TJ’s pregnancy. Speaking of pregnancy you could see Alaina Huffman showing in this episode

Before we talk about the actual battle with the aliens we have to talk about the prelude to battle in what I mean the crazy dreams James was having. From what we know about the blue aliens it makes sense technologically but it was not something. We have seen from past episodes that James is stressed out both mentally and emotionally. So I thought that is what the dreams meant in that is was James’ subconscious trying to let it all out if you will. I never saw the aliens using the communication stones and her to sabotage the FTL. It was a cool twist if you will.

I have a love-hate feeling with the resolution of the blue aliens attacking Destiny. First let’s deal with the hate. I found it so predictable that Franklin would be sitting in the chair again. It was kind of obvious that when he could comprehend the Destiny crew at the beginning of the episode that he was going to be meeting the chair once again. So when Rush said this could be solved faster if someone sat in the chair I knew it was going to be Franklin. Now for the love part of this episode. I find the mystery of Franklin disappearing into thin air after the chair mysterious. I like that as it makes me wonder if we will ever find out why and how that happened. What about using the chair made Franklin disappear? I guess we’ll find out later

General Jumper One
May 7th, 2010, 08:38 PM
10/10

s09119
May 7th, 2010, 08:40 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
I remember this episode being discussed months ago when the casting call for Amanda (then Eleanor) Perry came out. It made the notion of a crippled person seem very demeaning. And fandom doing what fandom does criticized and overreacted to the casting Perry call. But I kind of knew they were wrong. And for the most part I think I was right. The episode is not without its faults and it’s defiantly not the highlight in SGU (in fact its one of my least liked) but it was defiantly better then the negative hype that was spreading almost a year ago. You know where to go.

The teaser felt out of place except for the part where Rush told Young they would not cross the void between galaxies. I actually liked that scene. I ‘m talking about Young’s shaving scene and the subsequent speech in the gate room. That seemed completely pointless. I mean seriously we know Scott and company are left behind, do we really need a scene showing the explanation of them being left behind and the journey into another galaxy.

I object to Amanda Perry being the greatest expert on hyperdrives. Surely that title would belong to Carter from SG1. But given the logistics and budget it would take to get Amanda Tapping on Universe I’ll let it slide. Overall I liked her introduction and the difficulties it took for James and Wray to occupy a quadriplegics body. It shows some insight into the obstacles these kinds of people with those difficulties have. And I think especially Ming Na played a crippled woman quite. I may have thought those Earth scenes with Wray and Sharon were unnecessary and pointless but that does not escape the fact that Ming Na was very convincing as person with that kind of disability.

As for the FTL drive blowing up my first thought they were the S1 finale adversaries that I learned about from reading spoilers. Don’t worry I’ll leave those names silent for those of you who don’t like spoilers. And this is the wonderful about SGU. Unlike the other shows even with spoilers you as a viewer do not know what is happening. That is what makes SGU so interesting to watch. There is a high degree of unpredictability in it. Speaking of unpredictability I am wondering why the blowing up of the FTL drive caused Franklin to wake up like that. It’s a curious which I don’t think will ever be answered given what happened in the end of Sabotage but I’ll get to that later.

Moving on to the return to Scott, Eli, and Chloe. Since Destiny was still relatively close to the galaxy in the logical sense it was made obvious that they three of them would be able to dial Destiny and return. But from a story point of view it was mundane and easy. After all that struggling in Lost to return to Destiny it was just too easy for them to give up and magically show up. Like I said it made sense and all but I found it little too easy to accomplish.

Let’s try to put all this Amanda Perry development in one big paragraph since it really wasn’t the point of the episode. But it’s still an important aspect of the show. At the heart she is not a jerk but the sadness of her limitations did cloud Amanda like the moment she snapped at Amanda. Which given her situation on Earth is understandable. When you’re confined to a chair and need someone to do things uncripled people like me do every day its understandable you would want to experience those freedoms. And that is more then anything what Amanda Perry was about. A good person who does want to help the Destiny make it home but also wants to experience the life of what it is to be normal in the mobile sense. I think the scene with the crying Rush is proof of that. The way she was kind and sincere to Rush as he talked about the reliving of Gloria’s death. It showed that despite wanting to sleep with Rush (ewwwww) she was kind enough to see and help with his pain.

As the team went to check on “Eli’s Planet” as an evacuation site the aliens firing back at the gate was so predictable. I’ve watched enough Stargate to know when a character says for sure that everything is fine then you know well that everything is not fine so I kind of figured that the second Eli sent that KINO through the event horizon of the wormhole that something was going to be wrong. Now I did not think it was going to be the blue aliens but I had a feeling that something was going to be wrong. On tangent is the scene with Young and TJ arguing about her going off world. I kind of liked how this episode flowed. It shows us that despite this child how much tension and conflict there is between the two characters and more importantly how much they don’t see eye to eye because of TJ’s pregnancy. Speaking of pregnancy you could see Alaina Huffman showing in this episode

Before we talk about the actual battle with the aliens we have to talk about the prelude to battle in what I mean the crazy dreams James was having. From what we know about the blue aliens it makes sense technologically but it was not something. We have seen from past episodes that James is stressed out both mentally and emotionally. So I thought that is what the dreams meant in that is was James’ subconscious trying to let it all out if you will. I never saw the aliens using the communication stones and her to sabotage the FTL. It was a cool twist if you will.

I have a love-hate feeling with the resolution of the blue aliens attacking Destiny. First let’s deal with the hate. I found it so predictable that Franklin would be sitting in the chair again. It was kind of obvious that when he could comprehend the Destiny crew at the beginning of the episode that he was going to be meeting the chair once again. So when Rush said this could be solved faster if someone sat in the chair I knew it was going to be Franklin. Now for the love part of this episode. I find the mystery of Franklin disappearing into thin air after the chair mysterious. I like that as it makes me wonder if we will ever find out why and how that happened. What about using the chair made Franklin disappear? I guess we’ll find out later

In all honesty, why is Carter the expert on hyperdrives? We were never told that she was instrumental in our own hyperspace experiments, only that she knows a bit about modifying drives. Why would she be the best when we undoubtedly have people who spend their careers working in that one area now? Such as Perry.

PG15
May 7th, 2010, 08:44 PM
OMG This episode was so offensive!! Remember those spoilers that totally did actually happen in this episode? Perry wanting to sleep with Eli, Rush and Perry doing it, Perry going on and on about how she's never made lurve - they all happened!!

Right?

RIGHT?!?!

Yeah, right.

Briangate78
May 7th, 2010, 08:45 PM
Ok where to begin...

The episode certainly was more plot than character, but those character moments were excellent. I think the writers did a great job with the interaction of Rush and Amanda. You really feel something in the end when she has to go back to her paralyzed body. She always had a thing for Rush and as did Rush so you can see the pain in both of their eyes. This is the kinda drama that truly raises the bar for the show. I also enjoyed Eli's conversation with Amanda. We are seeing that Rush is not a hearless SOB and truly is "Human".

The plot at hand was very exciting. You had the lost team return and become reunited, you had some cool use of technology, you had aliens closing in on The Destiny again, and the ship needing more power to be able to make it to the next galaxy. The whole Franklin thing was also very well done. I believe he ascended or is part of the ship now.

So this episode did have some slow parts, but it was not a painful bore like "Life". You had a strong plot with good character moments that did not drag into nothing. The Sharon and Camille scenes were decent enough to watch through and Wray being in Amanda's body did not have the drama effect I thought it would. I thought Amanda being in Wray's body was more dramatic and interesting, and truly sad at the end. Since her dream will be over and she will be paralyzed again.

One last thing I thought was powerful was the scene in the chair room. Rush, grabbing Young's arm before sitting in the chair. He could of let him sit, and maybe it was a better chance to have Franklin sit in the chair. But he seemed to have that look of "Don't give up your life, we need you" kinda look. I may need to rewatch to see it.

Any disspointments? I wanted to see the Smurfs enter the gate. I know there were previews in the MGM trailer but hate to say, I think it will be a hallucination by Chloe or Rush in the next episode. So oh well.

So final grade for the ep was an A or 9/10.

Kaiphantom
May 7th, 2010, 08:45 PM
I liked this episode. Wrapped some things up nicely, and introduced a new mystery with what happened to Franklin. It'll also be interesting to see how long they stay with the ship in the void, or whether they cut back to the ship when it's in the new Galaxy.

Young - Liked him getting along with Rush, and volunteering to sit in the chair. Also props for giving Franklin the choice instead of being bullheaded. His character growth is nice, and I'm starting to like him again.

Rush - Interesting to get past more of the exterior shell and see the human beneath. Would be nice to see him grow to care more for Amanda, and get together with her near the end; also, I hope to see all these experiences turn him more human, and less of a cold logical manipulator of humans. Which, like Young, it's nice to see him grow out of, and work with everyone, particularly Volker and Brody.

Wray - Woman has guts, volunteering to be stuck in that kind of a body. Thought her scenes were touching. My opinion of her has risen considerably since the show began. She's come a long way since Air and Darkness.

Eli, Scott, Chloe - I found their return a bit surprising, but it did make sense, so I'll let it pass. "Third wheel" comment makes me think Chloe and Scott are getting back together, which is a shame. I really don't want to see this become Stargate 90210. I liked Eli giving the glasses to Rush; that was touching somehow. Nothing much else I can say about Scott, but Chloe's contribution was interesting; talking to James and figuring out she was probably body swapped and sabotaged the ship. As I've said before, this alien knowledge connection for Chloe could be interesting, but it all depends on how long the smurfs stay around.

Volker and Brody - I'm kinda liking these guys, but I dunno... with Franklin, it's like they are the three white man stooges, and it sometimes hard to tell them apart. With Franklin gone, it'll be easier, but still; I'd like to see more variety, like more Dr. Park. Part of me would like to see Volker or Brody perish somehow, like Franklin, but then again it is nice to see an actual engineering team, instead of one person (Carter or McKay) doing everything.

James - I liked her "connection" with Franklin. It seemed she had been spending some time looking over him; wonder if she's started falling for him or something?

Questions remain: How will the aliens track the ship again? Will they track it at all? They have to know that the aliens can use the stones to take over someone, so the crew will have to be real careful about using them now. If the aliens are gone, I think the mental hallucinations in Pain will handle the smurfs coming through the gate. It says Rush sees aliens everywhere, so it's probably his hallucination, and they don't actually come through.

And of course, the obvious about Franklin.

Briangate78
May 7th, 2010, 08:50 PM
In all honesty, why is Carter the expert on hyperdrives? We were never told that she was instrumental in our own hyperspace experiments, only that she knows a bit about modifying drives. Why would she be the best when we undoubtedly have people who spend their careers working in that one area now? Such as Perry.

What about Mckay and Zelenka. They found out about Wormhole drive. :p

jelgate
May 7th, 2010, 08:52 PM
In all honesty, why is Carter the expert on hyperdrives? We were never told that she was instrumental in our own hyperspace experiments, only that she knows a bit about modifying drives. Why would she be the best when we undoubtedly have people who spend their careers working in that one area now? Such as Perry.

Well it was kind of given when she designed and built the first few hyperdrives for the 303s/304s:P

General Jumper One
May 7th, 2010, 08:54 PM
This episode would have been an easy way to get either McKay or Carter on to help fix this problem

Rhoswen
May 7th, 2010, 08:54 PM
OMG This episode was so offensive!! Remember those spoilers that totally did actually happen in this episode? Perry wanting to sleep with Eli, Rush and Perry doing it, Perry going on and on about how she's never made lurve - they all happened!!

Right?

RIGHT?!?!

Yeah, right.

Well, there were definitely rewrites done for Perry in this episode. Besides the name change (Eleanor was changed to Amanda), the scene in which Perry flirts with Eli was substituted with a scene in which Perry admits to Eli that she has feelings for Rush. Most of the rest of the Perry scenes that were in the casting sides happened pretty much the same way in the actual episode. Except that the scene with Rush in Perry's room was changed. In the original casting sides, Perry removed her shirt after they kissed and then they continued kissing. The casting sides didn't actually say that they had sex, so anyone who posted that they had sex were filling in what they thought would happen based on the way the scene left off in the casting sides. Also, I don't think that Perry and Rush had any sort of previous feelings for one another in the original casting sides (hence her also flirting with and basically propositioning Eli in the sides). The original Perry from the casting sides was much more about drinking/kissing/having sex (things she'd never done before), so that part of the character was toned down and a previous mutual attraction between her and Rush was included in the episode instead of Perry acting like a "girl gone wild." I much prefer the Perry from the episode to the Perry from the casting sides.

insomniac8400
May 7th, 2010, 08:55 PM
I think it is clear that franklin ascended. Which most likely means that ship wasn't designed to be without a crew. The ancients must have ascended and left it behind.

The question is did ancients help him, is the knowledge needed for ascension in the ship, or did the ancients figure out a away for technology to aid ascension. The cold temp could have something to do with it.

s09119
May 7th, 2010, 08:55 PM
Well it was kind of given when she designed and built the first few hyperdrives for the 303s/304s:P

Where was this ever stated?

Briangate78
May 7th, 2010, 08:56 PM
OMG This episode was so offensive!! Remember those spoilers that totally did actually happen in this episode? Perry wanting to sleep with Eli, Rush and Perry doing it, Perry going on and on about how she's never made lurve - they all happened!!

Right?

RIGHT?!?!

Yeah, right.


Just for you PG..

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/brian-griffin-family-guy-t-shirt.jpg

:p

Shan Bruce Lee
May 7th, 2010, 08:57 PM
Can I just say that that wasn't quite as controversial as a lot of people made it out to be...

Pretty good episode with another nice twist at the end.

jelgate
May 7th, 2010, 09:01 PM
Where was this ever stated?
Several episodes in S6 and S7. I'm too lazy to make a list right now

Can I just say that that wasn't quite as controversial as a lot of people made it out to be...

Pretty good episode with another nice twist at the end.
Yes you can because I agree it wasn't controversal at all. I actually thought it was quite respectful and relastic of regular disabled people

Pharaoh Atem
May 7th, 2010, 09:04 PM
Well it was kind of given when she designed and built the first few hyperdrives for the 303s/304s:P

and i thought the Asgard did that :P you know from those other two stargate series that's we're supposed to think never happen. :P


over all this ep was 1 million times better then i expected it to be :D

PG15
May 7th, 2010, 09:05 PM
Just for you PG..

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b253/marcm1978/brian-griffin-family-guy-t-shirt.jpg

:p

Hm. It says I cannot green you at the moment - an injustice most foul.

s09119
May 7th, 2010, 09:06 PM
Several episodes in S6 and S7. I'm too lazy to make a list right now

Yes you can because I agree it wasn't controversal at all. I actually thought it was quite respectful and relastic of regular disabled people

Not to be a pain, but quotes or I don't believe it. Because I don't remember that at all...

Shan Bruce Lee
May 7th, 2010, 09:07 PM
Ok where to begin...

The episode certainly was more plot than character, but those character moments were excellent. I think the writers did a great job with the interaction of Rush and Amanda. You really feel something in the end when she has to go back to her paralyzed body. She always had a thing for Rush and as did Rush so you can see the pain in both of their eyes. This is the kinda drama that truly raises the bar for the show. I also enjoyed Eli's conversation with Amanda. We are seeing that Rush is not a hearless SOB and truly is "Human".

The plot at hand was very exciting. You had the lost team return and become reunited, you had some cool use of technology, you had aliens closing in on The Destiny again, and the ship needing more power to be able to make it to the next galaxy. The whole Franklin thing was also very well done. I believe he ascended or is part of the ship now.

So this episode did have some slow parts, but it was not a painful bore like "Life". You had a strong plot with good character moments that did not drag into nothing. The Sharon and Camille scenes were decent enough to watch through and Wray being in Amanda's body did not have the drama effect I thought it would. I thought Amanda being in Wray's body was more dramatic and interesting, and truly sad at the end. Since her dream will be over and she will be paralyzed again.

One last thing I thought was powerful was the scene in the chair room. Rush, grabbing Young's arm before sitting in the chair. He could of let him sit, and maybe it was a better chance to have Franklin sit in the chair. But he seemed to have that look of "Don't give up your life, we need you" kinda look. I may need to rewatch to see it.

Any disspointments? I wanted to see the Smurfs enter the gate. I know there were previews in the MGM trailer but hate to say, I think it will be a hallucination by Chloe or Rush in the next episode. So oh well.

So final grade for the ep was an A or 9/10.

So do I. That was the first thing that popped into my head. I never considered "one with the ship" though.

jelgate
May 7th, 2010, 09:09 PM
Not to be a pain, but quotes or I don't believe it. Because I don't remember that at all...

Then you will have to not believe me because I don't want to waste the hours searching through transcripts when it was just one little detail about the episode

SciFiRick
May 7th, 2010, 09:25 PM
Noticed different things about Eli in this episode:
What is it with Eli all of a sudden not like being called "Math Boy"?
Listening to music and reading a book while sitting on the floor. I haven't noticed that in earlier episodes. He is always on a computer console, documenting with a Kino or spying on everyone for Young.
Team in gate room going back to the planet for supplies and checking for possible living conditions: Greer says that there is water east of the gate according to Lt. Scott but Eli says it is a waste of time and starts to make a comment about the military. Just seemed a bit out of the norm. Am I seeing more in to this?

Someone said earlier that because of the lack of excitement with the three returning back to Destiny that it meant they are clones. Though I think that is a stretch there is more to that over night stay than we are meant to know at this time. The third wheel comment by Eli probably means that Scott and Chloe made up especially when you see Chloe's reaction when she looks back at Scott.

Azzers
May 7th, 2010, 09:31 PM
Noticed different things about Eli in this episode:
What is it with Eli all of a sudden not like being called "Math Boy"?
Listening to music and reading a book while sitting on the floor. I haven't noticed that in earlier episodes. He is always on a computer console, documenting with a Kino or spying on everyone for Young.
Team in gate room going back to the planet for supplies and checking for possible living conditions: Greer says that there is water east of the gate according to Lt. Scott but Eli says it is a waste of time and starts to make a comment about the military. Just seemed a bit out of the norm. Am I seeing more in to this?


Eli is growing up. At first, nicknames can be fun because you're trying to introduce yourself or be self-deprecating. But Eli is consistently asked to work extremely hard for Young, be there for Chloe (who doesn't think about him the way he thinks about her), and deal with Rush. I think at this point, the term is grating rather than fun.

Nicknames can be like that. They're fun when you're in a frat or with a group of friends. When you're amongst coworkers who consider you their junior despite what you do for them, nicknames become far less endearing. Case and point, young men calling older coworkers "Boss" or older workers calling younger workers "son."

Math Boy is a fun little term that allows people to not take Eli seriously. Eli has figured that out. And if you take it back to Chloe for a second, he may not be good looking enough for her anyway, BUT I think in Eli's mind he does also realize that Scott is considered worthy of respect while Eli only seems to have at most a few people who respect him. Young might be the only one so far because he's forcing Eli to act like an adult and I think he recognizes WHAT he's asked Eli to do. Others may simply see him as Young's errand boy rather than instrumental to Young's operation of the ship. I think Chloe respects his mind, but I don't think she respects him as a man yet. Everyone else is behind the curve right now. I think they still see Eli as E1 Eli, not as the man he is today.

Pharaoh Atem
May 7th, 2010, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE=SciFiRick;11485795]Noticed different things about Eli in this episode:
What is it with Eli all of a sudden not like being called "Math Boy"?
Listening to music and reading a book while sitting on the floor. I haven't noticed that in earlier episodes. He is always on a computer console, documenting with a Kino or spying on everyone for Young./QUOTE]

1, eli might be tired of everyone relying on him

2, he was stuck off ship for who knows how long. i'm sure he wanted to relax.

3, him using a kino wasn't important to the overall story,. and IMO it's gotten to the point where young knows who he can trust and not trust

DetriusXii
May 7th, 2010, 09:32 PM
I was watching the episode and I kept thinking that it would be cool if Amanda could get a Tok'ra symbiote. She was a well-written female character. I want to see the character again, but only happier in her life. And if she were to retrieve a symbiote, I'm sure that Camille and Wray could come to a mutual agreement for acceptable uses of body swapping.

MattSilver 3k
May 7th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Well this episode didn't turn into nearly as half as controversial and all that that I was expecting! Though I believe FAII will have a field day somehow...

Anyways, the episode was good fun. Unfortunately, even I felt a little offset by the Wray scenes on Earth, but there was enough in the way of character stuff on ship to enjoy. James in particular is really stepping up. Like really stepping up. She's got this tough girl military thing at first glance, but they're playing up her weaknesses and vulnerabilities really well - a nice inversion of the stereotypical tough girl act that we see every now and then. She's beginning to be a familiar presence even with Scott on board (She had more screentime than him even when he was back this episode!), and I like her.

Onto my favourite bit of the show - Amanda Perry. And Rush's thing with her. It's nice. It's simple. It's sweet. Amanda has such a... don't know what, but a quality in her that's just admirable - her little hand gesturing and wonderment over walking around was brilliant, and she accepted that it was all just temporary. She didn't go nuts and try to steal Wray's body (As I really really thought she would when I read the initial spoilers), or go nuts and try to have sex with everybody - just accepting of it all. And that was awesome. I hope she comes back too for the effect she has on Rush - Robert Carlyle mentioned in an interview that he could learn to love her mind, and it would be interesting if there was a continuing stone romance of sorts...

Rush was great too. The changes from Human... wow. Guy has my sympathies over and over again, and RC nails the part. The scene with Amanda (THE SCENE) was great, and his justification that he just saw Gloria die again was ouchies. Young, too, was fun-loving awesome guy too. His willingness to sit in the chair was good of him, and his scene with TJ was a highlight. I could barely tell the two of them were the Colonel and the Lieutenant - just Young and TJ. Over-protective Young and understanding but not backing down TJ. It was a nice scene that I hope to see more of the two. Oh, and how 'bout Rush stopping Young from sitting in the chair? Aww... they're getting along.

Onto the Away Team. Disappointing, but not at all a surprise. It was either just them gating through after a day or so offworld, or them being captured by aliens. But still - it was fine. That they stayed within range of the Destiny was fine. That it seems Matt and Chloe have reunited is fine. Eli giving Rush the glasses was cute, but it was reflected in his scene with Amanda - he does not like Rush, eh? Interesting, but then again Rush doesn't really care for him either. The Scott/Greer hug was nice, though Greer's minimal role was a tad disappointing. I would've liked just one scene where he got a shadow of a look on his face for being left behind while chatting with Scott. Just a little tension to the bromance.

Franklin Franklin Franklin... well, at least he was useful. I'll admit, it was pleasant to not hear him talk in that whiny grating voice of his, and his role in the episode was a huge surprise (I was honestly expecting an off-screen kill-off. Who else did?). That he disappeared... Well, that was a moment. Interesting, even. The other players were fine too - Brody's still was great, Volker, Park and Riley were all there, and Wray had more balls than I would've to do what she did. Her scenes weren't fantastic, but they were serviceable.

The plot, meanwhile, was fun fun fun. How could it not? Not the most epic of battle scenes, but it did the job and Franklin saving the day was cool. The little repair bot was ****ing insanely awesome. I want one! Haha. Still think the aliens have ugly-looking ships, but meh. I hope it's the last we see of them either. Them, Amanda or James getting an up-front role. All in all, a nice episode that keeps up a streak of great back-half episodes. Bring on Pain next week.

EllieVee
May 7th, 2010, 09:53 PM
1, eli might be tired of everyone relying on him

But aside from spying for Young, what exactly does Eli do on Destiny?

Daro
May 7th, 2010, 10:02 PM
But aside from spying for Young, what exactly does Eli do on Destiny?

Young had him catching up on all of Dr. Rush's research for a while. And Eli has mentioned since (I think) that Young still has him working his butt off. Now, of course, Eli's interpretation of what actually constitutes hard work is a little sketchy, I imagine.

Azzers
May 7th, 2010, 10:04 PM
I doubt we're meant to second guess him though. Seriously, if you go back and rewatch a few episodes, you can see some of the looks that Young gives Eli which to me always seemed to indicate he was at least aware that he was pushing Wallace extremely hard.

senilegreen
May 7th, 2010, 10:07 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents


I object to Amanda Perry being the greatest expert on hyperdrives. Surely that title would belong to Carter from SG1.


Well yes, I suppose Carter would be considered the expert on hyperdrives. However, I thought the writers early on established that Destiny uses an older, less sophisticated type of movement, FTL drives, which were from the time when the Ancients were more primitive (if I may use that term), as when they left the Ori galaxy.

Destiny's entire character is that of an older, more primitive design than the ships encountered on SG-1 and SGA.

Now, how on earth did anyone develop an expertise in such technology would be a good question, since in all the SG-1 storyline all the interstellar ships captured by SG-1 were, if I remember correctly, using the more recent, era of ascension, Ancient technology.

SciFiRick
May 7th, 2010, 10:09 PM
Does anyone think at some point that someone will start opening up the storage containers that were apparently left on board by the ancients. In first episode, Young orders not to touch them and then the episode where the robot was found has been the only times this was ever brought to light.

It would seem that after you get air, water, food, life support etc that a team would start exploring the pressurized areas on the ship. I know that Rush said no one can explore with out his presence and that he has a hundred things on his list that is more pressing but instead of always hearing in previous episodes "to return to your quarters" that something useful could be found. Like I would be asking is there an armory on board? An ancient weapon or two would be nice since ammo is limited. How about storage of repair parts? Surely, there are more space suits or possible a food storage area? Ancients had to eat, didn’t they?

This has many similarities to Atlantis. Of course the big difference is that Weir had many months to choose the expedition team. So use the stones with the "so-called" wrong people that are on board Destiny and get Carter or McKay to help out. It would make for a great guest appearance.

BobbyScars
May 7th, 2010, 10:10 PM
Great episode, great twists and turns that kept me guessing. I had to go eh when the stargate came alive, I admit I thought the attack would allow Eli, Scott and Chloe to come back, but still I find convenience in their return. If you were going to do that why not just have them return at the end of Lost? But again other than that I found the episode was good and I will look forward to watching it again.

senilegreen
May 7th, 2010, 10:16 PM
This was an enjoyable episode to watch, as long as one didn't think too hard.

However, there is one thing that still bothers me, and that is the exploitation of the host bodies (using the stones) for personal relationships. There is a real immorality to it that the writers have just decided to skip over.

The saving of the ship at the last moment was a bit too convenient, but this is Stargate after all.

Another topic that the writers have sort of skipped is how this gang should be showing some signs of malnutrition. Their food supply seems to magically never run out. I'm not sure how much people know about growing food, but humans eat quite a bit. A few plants under lights in one room just isn't going to cut it. Also, the diet has to be horribly unbalanced, lacking protein and probably essential fatty acids. The actors still look rather stocky and healthy, and now after some months they ought to (in the expectations of the real world) start to look a bit rough.

There was good intensity by the actors in their parts - that was what made this episode worth watching.

An episode worth the time, but again, as long as one doesn't try to think too hard about it.

Paladine
May 7th, 2010, 10:17 PM
Overrall a good episode but the writers really failed by having the away team return so easily. They had so much potential in having them stranded behind and just neatly wrapped it all up in the first 5 minutes of this show. Fail!

Loved seeing Wray get used the way she used that girls body in life though. Lt James definately got some screentime tonight. She was always so minor league in regards to character/tv time.

EllieVee
May 7th, 2010, 10:37 PM
Young had him catching up on all of Dr. Rush's research for a while. And Eli has mentioned since (I think) that Young still has him working his butt off. Now, of course, Eli's interpretation of what actually constitutes hard work is a little sketchy, I imagine.

Yes, after he left Rush for dead on the planet. After Rush came back, Eli seems to have made himself scarce in the work department.

Coronach
May 7th, 2010, 10:39 PM
OMG This episode was so offensive!! Remember those spoilers that totally did actually happen in this episode? Perry wanting to sleep with Eli, Rush and Perry doing it, Perry going on and on about how she's never made lurve - they all happened!!

Right?

RIGHT?!?!

Yeah, right.

I can't green you, but this made me lol. What fond memories...:P

Doorlocks
May 7th, 2010, 10:50 PM
But aside from spying for Young, what exactly does Eli do on Destiny?

Lol, you're kidding, right? He's the most intelligent person on that ship, and he's second only to Rush in terms of being able to fix problems. Eli does more than almost anyone on that ship. Rush and Young both rely on him for technical support, Chloe relies on him for emotional support, and besides that he has his own projects. As soon as he got back on the ship, Young sent him back to work (and acknowledged how much he was asking and always does ask of Eli). I think that's why he was so different this episode: he just never got any time to decompress. He went straight from a situation where he thought he was stranded (as a third wheel, at that) on an alien planet for the rest of his life to a situation where the fate of the entire ship was once again in his hands.

That being said, I don't see how anyone can think that Eli doesn't like Rush. The first thing he does when he gets on the ship is give Rush his glasses back with a huge, happy smile on his face.

As for the episode itself, I really liked it. I loved the Amanda/Rush dynamic, and hope that "Mandy" comes back in the future. I loved that Rush and Young are getting along better, and found Franklin's sacrifice very noble. I, too, think he's still around somewhere, though. I think he's been absorbed into the ship, and that the humans will have far more control over Destiny from now on.

Lahela
May 7th, 2010, 10:58 PM
Just jumping in to squee at how much I loved this ep - the characters, the plot, the acting... bloody brilliant stuff :D

Off now to read the thread...

latvian_stargatefan
May 7th, 2010, 11:02 PM
Looking back, they could've easily leave them on the planet till the start of the 2nd season... This was pretty lame.
Then again, I loved the guest actress a lot and the show was just beautifully shot... other than that, well... it's certainly better than "Life" but that doesn't say anything about the episode...

rimorob
May 7th, 2010, 11:11 PM
Really enjoyable episode for me. Great character moments, plot, and action.

FUN Little Stuff:
-Brody made a still. Awesome.
-The return of the glasses. Nice little moment, and something I'd been looking forward too since they found them last ep.
-The little phzt! noise that went with the visual of the Blues small ships getting vaporized as Destiny went into FTL. Made me laugh.

MAIN PLOT STUFF:
-I liked the quiet Young moments at the beginning, with him choosing not to shave and also not finishing sentences. A good job of the writers showing us how he's feeling, instead of telling us.
-The whole Franklin plot in this episode was great and something I was not expecting at all.
-Wray earned mega points for staying in Perry's body. I don't think I could handle that for a day, let alone a whole month! And Ming-Na was really good, I loved how she changed her breathing. Nice little touch.
-James was really great this week. I'm glad they're giving the actress more to do because she is rocking this role. A really nice combination of toughness and vulnerability.
-I loved everything with Rush and Perry. It was a really beautiful relationship between two very damaged people. The guest actress was great, incredibly likable. And I'm loving the redemption Rush has been getting the last several episodes.

The preview for next week looked awesome.

Azzers
May 7th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Ok, I'm going to use this thread and not the rewatching thread just because I'm not sure you need two threads for the same thing. But the conversation about Eli got my mind working so I watched his scenes very closely.

The first thing I noticed was this, Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc. People are asking what his problem is when I think the better question is, how long will this phase last?

Here's what I think has happened. The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.

First, he's socially isolated. Yes, we know he does "hang" with groups of people. But I believe his place in each circle is suspect at best. He's an interloper in every group. He's not a scientist because he's not a civilian from the expedition and he's too close to Young. He's not military because, well one doesn't become military simply by association. These groups want him when they need him but not as a confidant when they don't. The only other person like this (that we know of at the moment anyway) is Chloe, and she's found someone.

Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated. Not in the sense that he's not having sex (although I'm sure that's there too) but in the sense that he's not really successful in finding interested women. At first I thought this was simply a Chloe thing, but it's really not. Yes... I think he does like Chloe. But he's tried to build a rapport with James (see Time) and in this episode it is painfully obvious at the end of his conversation with Amanda that he has seen something he likes in her as well, only to find out that she's in love with Rush. Yes, things are working so smoothly for Eli that he's inclined to find the transient person in Camille's body the most interesting woman in the world. It was almost shocking upon rewatch how Eli went from complete disinterest and defeat at "Math Boy" to interested, dismayed, and jealous. In fact, the most suggestive scene he's been involved in so far involved James because she needed something from him in Darkness.

Third, and this may be a dead issue now. But in Darkness, we get the impression that the rest of the crew is using him as an information source for command decisions. That means, perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

So here we are close to the end of the season and this theme of being needed but not wanted is hitting him like a freight train. I say he is a true "geek" charecter in the sense that before being a "geek" was cool, this is the kind of situation that often occurred. Geek wasn't chic, it was social awkwardness. And that left a lot of people with very deep emotional scars. After all, it becomes much harder to connect when the expectaction is that connection only means someone wants something. The good news is, most people transcend this phase. The bad news is, most people don't live in a fish bowl that prevents them from getting away to find perspective.

What I'm really curious about now, is where does his charecter go from this episode on. We're at disillusioned and angry. But this can easily progress towards "creepy misanthrope." The man needs a friend, and not one that thinks his math skills are neat or that he's good at listening to relationship problems. If he doesn't get one of those or possibly a sexual one, we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.

Doorlocks
May 7th, 2010, 11:26 PM
Ok, I'm going to use this thread and not the rewatching thread just because I'm not sure you need two threads for the same thing. But the conversation about Eli got my mind working so I watched his scenes very closely.

The first thing I noticed was this, Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc. People are asking what his problem is when I think the better question is, how long will this phase last?

Here's what I think has happened. The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.

First, he's socially isolated. Yes, we know he does "hang" with groups of people. But I believe his place in each circle is suspect at best. He's an interloper in every group. He's not a scientist because he's not a civilian from the expedition and he's too close to Young. He's not military because, well one doesn't become military simply by association. These groups want him when they need him but not as a confidant when they don't. The only other person like this (that we know of at the moment anyway) is Chloe, and she's found someone.

Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated. Not in the sense that he's not having sex (although I'm sure that's there too) but in the sense that he's not really successful in finding interested women. At first I thought this was simply a Chloe thing, but it's really not. Yes... I think he does like Chloe. But he's tried to build a rapport with James (see Time) and in this episode it is painfully obvious at the end of his conversation with Amanda that he has seen something he likes in her as well, only to find out that she's in love with Rush. Yes, things are working so smoothly for Eli that he's inclined find the transient person in Camille's body the most interesting woman in the world. It was almost shocking upon rewatch how Eli went from complete disinterest and defeat at "Math Boy" to interested, dismayed, and jealous. In fact, the most suggestive scene he's been involved in so far involved James because she needed something from him in Darkness.

Third, and this may be a dead issue now. But in Darkness, we get the impression that the rest of the crew is using him as an information source for command decisions. That means, perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

So here we are close to the end of the season and this theme of being needed but not wanted is hitting him like a freight train. I say he is a true "geek" charecter in the sense that before being a "geek" was cool, this is the kind of situation that often occurred. Geek wasn't chic, it was social awkwardness. And that left a lot of people with very deep emotional scars. After all, it becomes much harder to connect when the expectaction is that connection only means someone wants something. The good news is, most people transcend this phase. The bad news is, most people don't live in a fish bowl that prevents them from getting away to find perspective.

What I'm really curious about now, is where does his charecter go from this episode on. We're at disillusioned and angry. But this can easily progress towards "creepy misanthrope." The man needs a friend, and not one that thinks his math skills are neat or that he's good at listening to relationship problems. If he doesn't get one of those or possibly a sexual one, we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.

Great analysis! I'm inclined to agree with you on every point, although I really don't see what you see in his interaction with Amanda. I went back to watch just to be sure, and that's not how I read the scene at all. However, I do agree with you about his sexual frustration in general. Also, just to play Devil's advocate, I think it could be argued that, rather than being socially isolated, this is the most socially active he's ever been. In his bedside confession to Chloe he admits that he's never had a best friend. It's clear that he considers her one, and I think the relationship is pretty reciprocal. Hearing about relationship problems is obviously part of the package, but I don't think that's all there is to it. Anyway, it's possible he could be closing himself off for exactly the opposite reason as you posit: for someone used to being alone and socially isolated, suddenly being the center of attention AND having one's first meaningful friendship could be incredibly overwhelming.

Also, I think it would be awesome to see a crazy/evil Eli.

Daro
May 7th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Ok, I'm going to use this thread and not the rewatching thread just because I'm not sure you need two threads for the same thing. But the conversation about Eli got my mind working so I watched his scenes very closely.

The first thing I noticed was this, Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc. People are asking what his problem is when I think the better question is, how long will this phase last?

Here's what I think has happened. The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.

First, he's socially isolated. Yes, we know he does "hang" with groups of people. But I believe his place in each circle is suspect at best. He's an interloper in every group. He's not a scientist because he's not a civilian from the expedition and he's too close to Young. He's not military because, well one doesn't become military simply by association. These groups want him when they need him but not as a confidant when they don't. The only other person like this (that we know of at the moment anyway) is Chloe, and she's found someone.

Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated. Not in the sense that he's not having sex (although I'm sure that's there too) but in the sense that he's not really successful in finding interested women. At first I thought this was simply a Chloe thing, but it's really not. Yes... I think he does like Chloe. But he's tried to build a rapport with James (see Time) and in this episode it is painfully obvious at the end of his conversation with Amanda that he has seen something he likes in her as well, only to find out that she's in love with Rush. Yes, things are working so smoothly for Eli that he's inclined to find the transient person in Camille's body the most interesting woman in the world. It was almost shocking upon rewatch how Eli went from complete disinterest and defeat at "Math Boy" to interested, dismayed, and jealous. In fact, the most suggestive scene he's been involved in so far involved James because she needed something from him in Darkness.

Third, and this may be a dead issue now. But in Darkness, we get the impression that the rest of the crew is using him as an information source for command decisions. That means, perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

So here we are close to the end of the season and this theme of being needed but not wanted is hitting him like a freight train. I say he is a true "geek" charecter in the sense that before being a "geek" was cool, this is the kind of situation that often occurred. Geek wasn't chic, it was social awkwardness. And that left a lot of people with very deep emotional scars. After all, it becomes much harder to connect when the expectaction is that connection only means someone wants something. The good news is, most people transcend this phase. The bad news is, most people don't live in a fish bowl that prevents them from getting away to find perspective.

What I'm really curious about now, is where does his charecter go from this episode on. We're at disillusioned and angry. But this can easily progress towards "creepy misanthrope." The man needs a friend, and not one that thinks his math skills are neat or that he's good at listening to relationship problems. If he doesn't get one of those or possibly a sexual one, we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.

An extremely nice and well-thought argument. While I didn't think Eli necessarily was attracted to Mandy, just bewildered that anyone thought Rush was sexy, I do agree with just about everything else you've said. Especially the conclusion you reached. I have been wondering for the past few months now if Eli would end up going down a very dark path, at least for a while. If so, it'd be a brave move on the writers' parts to take a character who was, by most counts, extremely likeable, helpful, and good to being none of those things. Perhaps he's a mirror of Rush: as Rush starts to move away from his misanthropy and isolation, Eli is actually going in the opposite direction. I get goose bumps just thinking about Eli as a bad guy. I mean, I love Eli, he's my second-favorite character. I don't want him to be irredeamably evil. But I'd be okay with him at least causing problems for a while. Can you imagine some future scene where Rush is doing the 'good' thing to try and stop Eli from doing something horrible? I am almost tempted to write fan-fic now. ;)

Meshakhad
May 7th, 2010, 11:41 PM
Excellent episode.

I rather liked Amanda as a character. I also liked that she didn't sleep with Rush, and it had to do not with Amanda being in another body (and the body of a lesbian, on top of it), but with Rush having just lost his wife, effectively.

Scott, Eli, and Chloe coming back was a little easy, but it worked well. My guess is that the writers originally planned for them to be stuck for at least an episode or two, but couldn't make their later return work.

I find Jelgate's analysis of Eli to be spot-on. The Eli/Chloe shipper in me thinks that the solution is for Eli to get together with Chloe, but I don't see Chloe and Scott breaking up any time soon. Eli needs friends, before he decides to take over Destiny with an army of kinos. Wait, that would be awesome.

Paladine
May 7th, 2010, 11:44 PM
Hopefully we'll get a future cute alien on board and she denies all of Lt.Scotts advances ( because we know he bangs all the girls ) and she only wants Eli. No more 3rd wheel buddy!

Daro
May 7th, 2010, 11:46 PM
Hopefully we'll get a future cute alien on board and she denies all of Lt.Scotts advances ( because we know he bangs all the girls ) and she only wants Eli. No more 3rd wheel buddy!

I hope she isn't cute at all. Non-humanoid aliens FTW. ;)
How sad that'd be for Eli. He has to date outside the species to even find a girlfriend. I'm not sure that'd be very good for his already dangerously deflated self-esteem.

Azzers
May 7th, 2010, 11:47 PM
HAH... uncontested I'm reading a few things in there. Of course in relation to Amanda, I don't have much of a choice, there's not much to go on. That scene specifically, I'm watching his body language at the beginning and then at the end. There's just such a dramatic change in interest level. He moves from very closed body language to very open body language quickly. A change that, say if Greer had walked in I don't think we'd see even if Greer was saying interesting things.

I would actually agree with parts of your devil's advocate analysis. Yes, he IS more socially active and he does have a best friend. But then, is there a question of the quality of his social interaction vs. the quantity. My worry, psychologically speaking is that he's not interacting with everyone in a manner that he feels like reciprical friendship. He's interacting because he's trying to be social. And truly, I think you're right about Chloe. But the problem is, his feelings are poisoning that relationship. And it could be at this point that he's "fronting" his friendship with her because he's no longer being honest with her.

Daro
May 8th, 2010, 12:00 AM
HAH... uncontested I'm reading a few things in there. Of course in relation to Amanda, I don't have much of a choice, there's not much to go on. That scene specifically, I'm watching his body language at the beginning and then at the end. There's just such a dramatic change in interest level. He moves from very closed body language to very open body language quickly. A change that, say if Greer had walked in I don't think we'd see even if Greer was saying interesting things.

I would actually agree with parts of your devil's advocate analysis. Yes, he IS more socially active and he does have a best friend. But then, is there a question of the quality of his social interaction vs. the quantity. My worry, psychologically speaking is that he's not interacting with everyone in a manner that he feels like reciprical friendship. He's interacting because he's trying to be social. And truly, I think you're right about Chloe. But the problem is, his feelings are poisoning that relationship. And it could be at this point that he's "fronting" his friendship with her because he's no longer being honest with her.

I agree that Eli may not be nearly as close to Chloe as he once was, or as it appears now. Maybe his quick acceptance of her apology in "Human" was forced. He may not have forgiven her at all for what he percieved as betrayal. Also, the reality that he'll likely never achieve his desire of Chloe loving him in the way he loves her is probably proving a bitter pill to swallow, especially since he's having to watch her make out with Scott every time he turns around. It takes a very unique and special person who can be in love with their best friend and still be able to maintain the same level of contact when they are rejected in favor of someone else.

As for body language, I think he just went from "Please, leave me alone; I'm on my break." to "......wait, what? You love Rush? Weird."
How galling it must be, that even Rush has a special someone, despite his bitter personality and his moral failings, and Eli doesn't.

MattSilver 3k
May 8th, 2010, 12:02 AM
As for body language, I think he just went from "Please, leave me alone; I'm on my break." to "......wait, what? You love Rush? Weird."
How galling it must be, that even Rush has a special someone, despite his bitter personality and his moral failings, and Eli doesn't.


Oh yeah. That must sting just a bit. Nice guys finish last and all that.

mparsons1981
May 8th, 2010, 01:00 AM
what a shame, after 5 brilliant episodes since universes return, this was such a let down. To have the chloe, eli, and matt get back after 14mins is such an absolute joke, and a real waste of potential from the writers. It also ruins the ending of last weeks episodes. What an absolute farce. This one key thing ruined the entire episode for me, but it doesnt help that wray is such a tedious character.

yanna
May 8th, 2010, 02:31 AM
I'm so happy this episode played so much better than spoiled. I couldn't have taken it if Rush had taken Mandy on her offer. And she was a much better character than I expected although very tragic.

I liked the action in the episode but didn't ever feel any real urgency. And as great as it was to see Wray and Sharon together I felt that maybe they should have had less scenes to focus more on the goings on in Destiny. Wray has courage, though. I never particularly disliked her and she's one character I definitely want to see alive to return to Earth at the end. Though I fear that at one point she may have to tell Sharon not to wait for her forever.

Young was less of an idiot than usual and actually noble. I'm glad he's learning some humility. It was also nice to see Rush stop Young from sitting on the Chair though I'm thinking it might have done more with thinking that Franklin would do a better job of it.

My one complain has to do with Franklin. I really wanted him to speak in Ancient. It would have tied things nicely with O'Neill's experience with repositories. The Chair is being used more and more like Atlantis' command chair even though the show likes to pretend Atlantis never happened.

metabog
May 8th, 2010, 02:34 AM
Perry should be main cast, she's awesome.

Phenom
May 8th, 2010, 03:10 AM
what a shame, after 5 brilliant episodes since universes return, this was such a let down. To have the chloe, eli, and matt get back after 14mins is such an absolute joke, and a real waste of potential from the writers. It also ruins the ending of last weeks episodes. What an absolute farce. This one key thing ruined the entire episode for me, but it doesnt help that wray is such a tedious character.

Funny, for me the past 2 eps have been massive let downs and this was one that I really enjoyed. Back up to the Space and Divided level that I was hoping for.

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 03:13 AM
Well, it was better than Life, so that's a plus. :p

But seriously, Perry was awesome(I loved the way she held her hands, like she doesn't know what to do with them) and it turned out SOOOOOOO much better than the casting sides would have had us believe.
Of course, it was disappointing that the alien situation was so easily resolved. I'd have liked to see at least one of their ships latch on and board the Destiny, so a fire-fight would ensue. I'm not desperate for action, but it would have been nice. All of the running around with guns and getting prepared for battle, only for the whole thing to be resolved without a shot fired and like 3 exterior CG shots was kinda anticlimactic.

But still, good episode. I'm still not a fan of the stones, but the personal drama was handled much better than in Life. It felt more like Earth, where the ship-side story balanced things out.

And little Marvin the robot was cool.

Phenom
May 8th, 2010, 03:23 AM
Well, it was better than Life, so that's a plus. :p

But seriously, Perry was awesome(I loved the way she held her hands, like she doesn't know what to do with them) and it turned out SOOOOOOO much better than the casting sides would have had us believe.
Of course, it was disappointing that the alien situation was so easily resolved. I'd have liked to see at least one of their ships latch on and board the Destiny, so a fire-fight would ensue. I'm not desperate for action, but it would have been nice. All of the running around with guns and getting prepared for battle, only for the whole thing to be resolved without a shot fired and like 3 exterior CG shots was kinda anticlimactic.

But still, good episode. I'm still not a fan of the stones, but the personal drama was handled much better than in Life. It felt more like Earth, where the ship-side story balanced things out.

And little Marvin the robot was cool.

I am not convinced one of the ships didn't latch on just prior to FTL. I would do a screen shot thing if I knew how. Then again I don''t read the spoilers so its likely it doesn't happen.

timebandit
May 8th, 2010, 03:32 AM
I really like the episode -

the team getting back so unusually easily is, indeed strange.

Remember, the kino they sent through the gate to a 'planet' tj and young talked about it - as if they were there already? Which planet was that? the one w/the ruins ?? and the alien ships were there, so ... could Eli be not so talkative maybe for some other reason? Plus scott and chloe bonding no problem again , maybe because he met them [REALLY - we need a name for the blue people] also.

My little idea is, they all sat down and talked, no water tanks this time, and said to them [w/those neural things], look, we need a way on your ship, you need to get back. lets make a deal. its your only way back, take it or leave it. the away team probably didnt tell the whole truth, you know for drama and all. so they had to tell them something, maybe not quite enough but enough to let them know where the ship was, and info like that.

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 03:35 AM
I really like the episode -

the team getting back so unusually easily is, indeed strange.

Remember, the kino they sent through the gate to a 'planet' tj and young talked about it - as if they were there already? Which planet was that? the one w/the ruins ?? and the alien ships were there, so ... could Eli be not so talkative maybe for some other reason? Plus scott and chloe bonding no problem again , maybe because he met them [REALLY - we need a name for the blue people] also.

My little idea is, they all sat down and talked, no water tanks this time, and said to them [w/those neural things], look, we need a way on your ship, you need to get back. lets make a deal. its your only way back, take it or leave it. the away team probably didnt tell the whole truth, you know for drama and all. so they had to tell them something, maybe not quite enough but enough to let them know where the ship was, and info like that.
http://www.liquidmatrix.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/facepalm.jpg

g.o.d
May 8th, 2010, 03:42 AM
This was the first episode, I used the FF button. I didn't like it at all. The only interesting thing was the very ending of that episode

MechaThor
May 8th, 2010, 03:45 AM
It was allot better than I thought, when I first heard about this epsiode right back at the start of the series I was not looking forward to it. However with the addition of the Galactic void, Blue Aliens, Franklin, Repairbot and awesome CGI this episode actually turned out great. Did not really care much for the Amanda/Camile plot although the rest of the episode made up for it.

Overall a solid episode.

timebandit
May 8th, 2010, 04:18 AM
oh no, Im "facepalm'd" ....

so you tell me how they got back so easily ?

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 04:24 AM
oh no, Im "facepalm'd" ....

so you tell me how they got back so easily ?
They dialed the friggin gate. The ship dropped out of FTL when it went kaboom and it was still in range of the planet on which the trio was stuck. When that happened, the address appeared on Eli's remote once again.

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 8th, 2010, 04:54 AM
So having watched this ep I found it to be enjoyable. What was interesting was that while it was quite a slow character study, it didn't at least to me feel quite so slow, possibly because the ep hopped between various characters and their stories. I hoped for a bigger battle at the end of the ep, but I'm content to await for the big action at the end of the season.

And as people pointed out already, guess what all that controversy was a no show, the ep dwelled on the issues surrounding relationships and the stones, but I think you'd have to reach to find anything controversial.

jsonitsac
May 8th, 2010, 05:23 AM
I thought that it was a well done show. They could have focused a bit more on Wray, especially on her adaptation to being paralyzed. I think this episode throws another wrinkle into Rush, which is always good. I also liked seeing the tension develop between TJ and Young over the baby, this could make for some good drama.

garhkal
May 8th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Awesome, it's open!

I adore this episode. Unlike "Life," it managed to balance character growth with the overall plot, keeping us both interested in what was happening to the characters on an emotional level and in a state of suspense as far as the rest of the story. Very nicely done.

I was surprised they managed to pack as much cha development (rush, wray and even a little with parks) as they did while still giving a good suspenseful plot.



I was struck by how wonderful Rush was in this episode. I was afraid he and Perry were going to sleep together, and I would have considered that a very bad thing, considering Wray and all. But he, not she, was the one who raised first a moral and then an emotional reason not to.

Actually i was NOT surprised at his refusal to bed down with her. I know 3 people who had 'issues' like he has, and did not even start dating till at least 7 years later (9 for one and still don't know if the third has ever gotten back on "the band wagon"). So i can easily see someone as 'devoted' as he is to his work also having the same level of devotion to loved ones as he has shown he had for his wife.



I also loved that he tried so hard to keep Young from sitting in the chair. I was surprised by it, somewhat. Rush's conscience is far stronger now, and even if he was once nearly murdered by Young, he seems to have completely rejected notions of revenge.

I doubt it was from not wanting to get revenge on Young, but more cause he felt Young did not have the mentall capacity to deal with what the chair puts you through.



Young: there's a lost feeling to him but because he doesn't talk about it, it comes out in subtle moments. Like not shaving. It's a small thing but for such a military guy, that's a big deal. He seems slumped and smaller somehow, without the ones that he's lost. There's so much that he clearly needs to say but he's reserved and holds everything in. The letters that he's clearly written to TJ and Matthew should prove interesting.

I am now wondering what is IN those letters he wrote. Also i am left wondering WHY he did not shave and just seemed to sit there, almost in resigned defeat.



Young and Rush: They're working together, “for the greater good”. Rush seemed unnerved/uneasy/surprised that Young would sit in the chair if it would save them. Rush keeping Young from sitting in the chair was a nice touch.

I am thinking (hoping) it was more uneasy with him sitting in it. Rush knows that young is already a little unhinged, and with his recent experience with the chair in the forefront of his mind, i am hoping that he felt young was not up to the task of sitting there.


Poor Eli, feeling like a third wheel, that's awkward. I found his conversation with Amanda about Rush to be interesting as I didn't think he thought to little (openly) about Rush. He doesn't see Rush as likable, I suppose.

That was strange, seeing how easily Eli seemed to slam on Rush to Perry. Perhaps he did feel like a third wheel and felt he might benefit if he drew a wedge between the 2.


Greer: Greer is simply full of awesome in so many ways. Whether it's shaving his head (I have a soft spot for Riddick, so the whole head shaving thing before trouble strikes just works for me), helping injured people get to the infirmary, asking TJ if she's okay, or taking charge when the attack happens, he's just solid in every way.

The head shaving thing to me was just them doing standard military protocols.. That and most blacks i see like Greer (muscle types) seem to go with the shaved head look. As to how he handled himself, imo he stepped up another notch. Almost erasing his fubar for not thinking to shoot in the air to 'alert' the others who might have been there still by the gate.


I wonder if Rush will do as he stated and find a way to bring her aboard again.

I for one can easily see him doing that.


I really get that panic that Wray felt when her girlfriend was away for a longer time than expected, given the need she was in.

I didn't understan that especially since her love has had a lot more time without her being there with no panic attacks. AND her helper was still there..


and then disappearing from a locked room? That's a wonderful mystery and a half! The issues with James aren't at an end, I don't think, and neither are the issues with Franklin, who I believe may still be in the ship somehow.

See the thread that has been started on this.


The Robot!: How cool is that?! I had figured it was some sort of a maintenance thing but it's very cool that it's working now.

I am surprised it was a walking robot.. i thought it would hover like the kino's.



Jelgate's Two Cents

That seemed completely pointless. I mean seriously we know Scott and company are left behind, do we really need a scene showing the explanation of them being left behind and the journey into another galaxy.

It felt just right to me. Lets look at it from my perspective as a fellow mil member. Many a time we get hints and rumors (even truths to them), but until the higher ups actually give the briefing, some of us don't take it all in. That plus it helps to put into the mind of US, that there are so many lives there that young still has to care for.


I object to Amanda Perry being the greatest expert on hyperdrives. Surely that title would belong to Carter from SG1. But given the logistics and budget it would take to get Amanda Tapping on Universe I’ll let it slide.

Sine when has carter done a lot with hyperdrives? if anything i would have said Mccay or Zelenka. BUT from what is said we know that Ms Perry is working on a new brand of hyperdrives... So that would place her above the other 2.


Overall I liked her introduction and the difficulties it took for James and Wray to occupy a quadriplegics body.

What i would like to know is if she IS such a hot shot with tech, how the heck can see do all the work she does in her condition? I can see it if she is just there for the theoretical/math proofs, but there is more to hyperdrive making than just that.


Speaking of unpredictability I am wondering why the blowing up of the FTL drive caused Franklin to wake up like that. It’s a curious which I don’t think will ever be answered given what happened in the end of Sabotage but I’ll get to that later.

I am wondering if he is more linked to the ship than we thought he might be before. And if that explosion to him was like someone snapping a leg, a wake up call of immense proportions.


After all that struggling in Lost to return to Destiny it was just too easy for them to give up and magically show up. Like I said it made sense and all but I found it little too easy to accomplish.

Agreed. It was quite the let down when you think of all the suspense they put in play last ep..


As the team went to check on “Eli’s Planet” as an evacuation site the aliens firing back at the gate was so predictable. I’ve watched enough Stargate to know when a character says for sure that everything is fine then you know well that everything is not fine so I kind of figured that the second Eli sent that KINO through the event horizon of the wormhole that something was going to be wrong. Now I did not think it was going to be the blue aliens but I had a feeling that something was going to be wrong.

the thing i didn't like about this is that we have seen from many other eps when enemies fire at stuff comin through the gate that their shots can come back, BUT there did not seem to be ANY concern that the blue alien's ships shots could come back through... I am wondering was this an oversight?


Before we talk about the actual battle with the aliens we have to talk about the prelude to battle in what I mean the crazy dreams James was having. From what we know about the blue aliens it makes sense technologically but it was not something. We have seen from past episodes that James is stressed out both mentally and emotionally. So I thought that is what the dreams meant in that is was James’ subconscious trying to let it all out if you will. I never saw the aliens using the communication stones and her to sabotage the FTL. It was a cool twist if you will.

This is making me wonder if they now have a way to fully swap with someone on the ship. And whether they will use that to help them gate aboard in later eps..

Cont next post...

Commander Zelix
May 8th, 2010, 05:52 AM
That was horrible. Where do I begin? I don't even want to begin. Bad drama, boring characters, multitude plot contrivances, bad story telling flow. I couldn't believe how stupid it was. I think the writer who wrote it must have been drunk or something. It was incoherent. Even the side story with the disabled person was badly done (and I like that type of drama sometime). I wont even bother review it right now. Just to say 2/10. (Lost was 8/10)

MattSilver 3k
May 8th, 2010, 05:55 AM
I think the writer who wrote it must have been drunk or something

She was a freelancer... There's your "or something".

garhkal
May 8th, 2010, 06:05 AM
Young - Liked him getting along with Rush, and volunteering to sit in the chair. Also props for giving Franklin the choice instead of being bullheaded. His character growth is nice, and I'm starting to like him again.

I am wondering if young seeing how Rush is changing, has realised he needs to do the same.. And that is why he offered to sit there.



Rush - Interesting to get past more of the exterior shell and see the human beneath. Would be nice to see him grow to care more for Amanda, and get together with her near the end; also, I hope to see all these experiences turn him more human, and less of a cold logical manipulator of humans. Which, like Young, it's nice to see him grow out of, and work with everyone, particularly Volker and Brody.

As i mentioned elsewhere, perhaps this is the key that the show needs to have Rush WANT to return to earth.



Wray - Woman has guts, volunteering to be stuck in that kind of a body. Thought her scenes were touching. My opinion of her has risen considerably since the show began. She's come a long way since Air and Darkness.

And it puts her above james who freeked out and left the body.. THOUGH i wonder how she did that.


I liked Eli giving the glasses to Rush; that was touching somehow. Nothing much else I can say about Scott, but Chloe's contribution was interesting; talking to James and figuring out she was probably body swapped and sabotaged the ship. As I've said before, this alien knowledge connection for Chloe could be interesting, but it all depends on how long the smurfs stay around.

The Glasses hand over scene was the most touching aspect of that whole return of the trio to me. And i loved how it was Chloe who was the one to help diagnose Jame's issue. Though i wonder if that was cause she has been there (the blue's prisoner) or cause the powers that be want to show she can do the quack stuff so TJ won't always have to do that.


but then again it is nice to see an actual engineering team, instead of one person (Carter or McKay) doing everything.


And it was Especially nice to see both Young and rush looking to ALL of them rather than just rush.


Well it was kind of given when she designed and built the first few hyperdrives for the 303s/304s

When did she build them? I thought they were gifts from the Asguard.


I think it is clear that franklin ascended.

No it is not. Every other ascention we have seen left the clothes behind. Where were his?


I was watching the episode and I kept thinking that it would be cool if Amanda could get a Tok'ra symbiote. She was a well-written female character. I want to see the character again, but only happier in her life. And if she were to retrieve a symbiote, I'm sure that Camille and Wray could come to a mutual agreement for acceptable uses of body swapping.

I wonder if that would work for someone in her conditon. And would she want it?


he does not like Rush, eh? Interesting, but then again Rush doesn't really care for him either.

Which makes me wonder if they are setting things up for a Rush/Eli war..


Another topic that the writers have sort of skipped is how this gang should be showing some signs of malnutrition. Their food supply seems to magically never run out.

A) they have had several times where they stocked up on provisions when they went planet side AND we DID see them instigate rationing.. So i can easily see malnutrition not setting in yet.


Perhaps he's a mirror of Rush: as Rush starts to move away from his misanthropy and isolation, Eli is actually going in the opposite direction. I get goose bumps just thinking about Eli as a bad guy. I mean, I love Eli, he's my second-favorite character. I don't want him to be irredeamably evil. But I'd be okay with him at least causing problems for a while. Can you imagine some future scene where Rush is doing the 'good' thing to try and stop Eli from doing something horrible? I am almost tempted to write fan-fic now.

While i am all for something like that happening, it would be a little cliche imo.


How galling it must be, that even Rush has a special someone, despite his bitter personality and his moral failings, and Eli doesn't.[quote]

Jealousy. A perfect reasoning for him to hate rush more!

[QUOTE]My one complain has to do with Franklin. I really wanted him to speak in Ancient. It would have tied things nicely with O'Neill's experience with repositories. The Chair is being used more and more like Atlantis' command chair even though the show likes to pretend Atlantis never happened.


Part of me was wondering if when he came too, he would be like Oneill, and eventually go all ancient on us. BUT he just woke up. So maybe his mind has not shifted yet.

major davis
May 8th, 2010, 06:25 AM
I have to agree though Perry in the episode was much better that the Perry of the casting sides. Also Rush was better too. In the casting sides it looked like Rush didn't care about Perry using Camille's body for that stuff but in reality he turned it down. Im actually starting to like that guy. ;)

Briangate78
May 8th, 2010, 07:18 AM
Hm. It says I cannot green you at the moment - an injustice most foul.

I get that a lot. :p

jelgate
May 8th, 2010, 07:34 AM
It felt just right to me. Lets look at it from my perspective as a fellow mil member. Many a time we get hints and rumors (even truths to them), but until the higher ups actually give the briefing, some of us don't take it all in. That plus it helps to put into the mind of US, that there are so many lives there that young still has to care for.
That was not the point. Obviously Young would announce to the crew the fate of Scott, Eli, and Chloe. It was just unesscarry to show onscreen.



Sine when has carter done a lot with hyperdrives? if anything i would have said Mccay or Zelenka. BUT from what is said we know that Ms Perry is working on a new brand of hyperdrives... So that would place her above the other 2.
Since S6. And we really have no way of knowing that as Rush is the only one who said she was the best and his opinion is more then a little biased. Furthermore its hard to say who is better without putting them in a scene. That said we cand defiantly conclude Perry is good at what she does.


What i would like to know is if she IS such a hot shot with tech, how the heck can see do all the work she does in her condition? I can see it if she is just there for the theoretical/math proofs, but there is more to hyperdrive making than just that.
Probably more of the design phase of hyperdrives with engineers doing the actualy building



I am wondering if he is more linked to the ship than we thought he might be before. And if that explosion to him was like someone snapping a leg, a wake up call of immense proportions.

Maybe the explosion of the engine caused tramua for Destiny and caused Franklin and link to the chair to be severed.



the thing i didn't like about this is that we have seen from many other eps when enemies fire at stuff comin through the gate that their shots can come back, BUT there did not seem to be ANY concern that the blue alien's ships shots could come back through... I am wondering was this an oversight?

For most things the direction of the wormhole is one way. In that you can only travel from Destiny to that planet. People from that planet can't go to Destinty on that dial. That holds true for weapons fire as well


This is making me wonder if they now have a way to fully swap with someone on the ship. And whether they will use that to help them gate aboard in later eps..

Cont next post...
That would be increasingly difficult as we get farther and farther into the galactic void

I have to agree though Perry in the episode was much better that the Perry of the casting sides. Also Rush was better too. In the casting sides it looked like Rush didn't care about Perry using Camille's body for that stuff but in reality he turned it down. Im actually starting to like that guy. ;)
Casting sides are always like that. They make the character more worse then they really are. I remember how bad the main cast slides were. Nothing like the characters we see now.

kwlafayette
May 8th, 2010, 07:54 AM
There are some who think the blue aliens have never boarded Destiny before. I think this episode should tell those people how very, very wrong they have insisted on being. Clearly, the blue aliens have very detailed knowledge of Destiny's systems, its layout, and its vulnerabilities. Also, they have the ability to access systems that the human crew cannot.

Not impressed at all with the robot, or the whole idea that in 5 million years, this was the first major breakdown. A ship without the ability to repair itself would simply not be operational in any way after that length of time. It is like jumping a shark.

yet
May 8th, 2010, 08:27 AM
I'm finding it hard to think of anythink i didn't like in this episode unlike the last 2.

If Franklin didn't ascend maby he accessed the beaming tech and went back to bed LOL :D

9/10

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 8th, 2010, 08:32 AM
I doubt we're meant to second guess him though. Seriously, if you go back and rewatch a few episodes, you can see some of the looks that Young gives Eli which to me always seemed to indicate he was at least aware that he was pushing Wallace extremely hard.yes, and that's something that Young does make a point of saying aloud, that he's sorry for pushing him so hard



...So use the stones with the "so-called" wrong people that are on board Destiny and get Carter or McKay to help out. It would make for a great guest appearance.I sincerely hope not. So far the writers have avoided that issue and I really hope that continues. Having someone stone aboard and be able to magically fix the Destiny with no seeming work to it at all other than shuffling some stuff around? I've been liking that SGU actually has to work for what they have, even showing people doing repairs and having to make things with their own hands when it comes to it. After everything the Destiny crew has been through, the 'victory' should be theirs, not a 'wrap it up magically at minute 42' ending.


...

However, there is one thing that still bothers me, and that is the exploitation of the host bodies (using the stones) for personal relationships. There is a real immorality to it that the writers have just decided to skip over.
...
.
this has been explained, in Kinosode 23, and also, in this specific episode where people had to stand up and volunteer to be in Amanda's body, given the circumstances. There is full consent given, so no exploitation is present.


Really enjoyable episode for me. Great character moments, plot, and action.

FUN Little Stuff:
-Brody made a still. Awesome.
-The return of the glasses. Nice little moment, and something I'd been looking forward too since they found them last ep.
-The little phzt! noise that went with the visual of the Blues small ships getting vaporized as Destiny went into FTL. Made me laugh.

MAIN PLOT STUFF:
-I liked the quiet Young moments at the beginning, with him choosing not to shave and also not finishing sentences. A good job of the writers showing us how he's feeling, instead of telling us.
-The whole Franklin plot in this episode was great and something I was not expecting at all.
-Wray earned mega points for staying in Perry's body. I don't think I could handle that for a day, let alone a whole month! And Ming-Na was really good, I loved how she changed her breathing. Nice little touch.
-James was really great this week. I'm glad they're giving the actress more to do because she is rocking this role. A really nice combination of toughness and vulnerability.
-I loved everything with Rush and Perry. It was a really beautiful relationship between two very damaged people. The guest actress was great, incredibly likable. And I'm loving the redemption Rush has been getting the last several episodes.

The preview for next week looked awesome.
I enjoyed the still too! Not only that it was there, which was awesome enough all by itself, but that we got to see him have to build it. That doesn't happen very often and it really shows how they are having to cope on Destiny. They can't just go out and get supplies, they have to do everything themselves, from scratch. The glasses was a nice touch, I agree, but there's a small feeling of 'I've been where you've been' and I'm wondering if that will come up again. Franklin was a complete surprise to me and yes, Wray surprised me as well. She may have been willing to do anything to be home, but she did it anyway and that took guts.



... Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc.
...The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.
...First, he's socially isolated.
...Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated.
...Third,... perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

...we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.
you were my first green of the day! This was really well thought out, and dead on for points, I believe.



...

Also, I think it would be awesome to see a crazy/evil Eli.I do love a good villain! I think we will likely see a far more willful Eli in any case.


....
How galling it must be, that even Rush has a special someone, despite his bitter personality and his moral failings, and Eli doesn't.that's what I took from that as well, well said!


...What an absolute farce. ...an absolute farce would be if, upon stepping through the gate they tripped over something on the floor and did a faceplant followed by a yowl of Jerry Lewis proportions, right in front of everyone.


...Perry was awesome(I loved the way she held her hands, like she doesn't know what to do with them)
... I'd have liked to see at least one of their ships latch on and board the Destiny, so a fire-fight would ensue. I'm not desperate for action, but it would have been nice. ...I noticed that too, that she carried herself strangely, but then again, if you haven't used your hands since you were 9, what would you do with a grown woman's hands, especially if they weren't yours? (keep it clean, you know who I mean :D...and that goes for me too :p). I kept waiting for a firefight too, but I have the feeling that we haven't seen the end of it, if only because that's something this show seems to be good at, we're going to see the blues again, I think.


...
And as people pointed out already, guess what all that controversy was a no show, the ep dwelled on the issues surrounding relationships and the stones, but I think you'd have to reach to find anything controversial.I think we'll see some reaching, my friend :) Manufactured outrage in 3...2...1...


...
...I am surprised it was a walking robot.. i thought it would hover like the kino's.
...It felt just right to me. Lets look at it from my perspective as a fellow mil member. Many a time we get hints and rumors (even truths to them), but until the higher ups actually give the briefing, some of us don't take it all in. That plus it helps to put into the mind of US, that there are so many lives there that young still has to care for.
....I too had thought that it would hover around like the kinos so it was odd to see it crawling around. Neat though. I agree on Young;s speech. Sure there are people who know what's happened with Scott, Eli and Chloe but it';s like a game of telephone, where some people know something and before you know it, the situation is completely different and everyone knows something a little different. Getting out there and saying 'this is what happened' is great rumor control, but I think it was put in as a way to show how Young is shouldering that burden, and that while individuals on the crew can feel for this person or that person, Young bears the burden of all of them because he is responsible for all of them.


...
The Glasses hand over scene was the most touching aspect of that whole return of the trio to me. And i loved how it was Chloe who was the one to help diagnose Jame's issue.
....I liked that too, that Chloe was the one to help with that and that she not only figured it out, but convinced James to come forward even though that must have been quite a difficult thing to admit.

DJFavorite
May 8th, 2010, 08:49 AM
Overall, I felt the episode was good. I really enjoyed the Rush scenes. I've always liked Rush and to see last episode and this one actually show his 'human side' makes me like him even more.

The only issues I had with the episode was the return of the trio and James' blackout. The return of the trio was very anti-climatic and disappointed me. Also, James' blackout was very under emphasized. I thought they should have covered it a bit more instead of the 'filler' time they used to show the passage of time.

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 09:20 AM
I noticed that too, that she carried herself strangely, but then again, if you haven't used your hands since you were 9, what would you do with a grown woman's hands, especially if they weren't yours? (keep it clean, you know who I mean :D...and that goes for me too :p). I kept waiting for a firefight too, but I have the feeling that we haven't seen the end of it, if only because that's something this show seems to be good at, we're going to see the blues again, I think.
Yeah, the way she carried herself really added a lot to the authenticity of it all. Overall, she was a great character. Very sweet. I hope we see more of her.
And don't worry, the thought of doing anything with a woman's hands never even crossed my mind. :p

Is the small grin still hiding in the shadows?

Sp!der
May 8th, 2010, 10:00 AM
they did not just use Julian Plenti in this episode??? :) how do they know my music taste...incredible!
ok, so they made lost kinda worthless with this episode, it would have been nice to see them lost up until the seasons finale, but otherwise good episode! Liked rush actually this time. and what the frak happend to the guy in the chair whose name i always forget? cannot wait for the next episode, they really know how to end at the cliffhanger though.

kymeric
May 8th, 2010, 10:16 AM
Good episode! This turned out to be nothing like those long threads where people aired out their rape fantasies at the start of the season said it would be, lmao.

Loved the space fight, things are always better when the blue aliens are around. I hope (and expect) that they can follow Destiny through the void. It was suprising when the Kino popped out of the gate and there were Blue ships there! I think theyre gonna be great as a series villian (I hope).

Not much to say on the crippled Wray scenes, they were well done. I like how the was holding her hands like she didnt know what to do with them.

Seems like the Blues have a better understanding of the stones than the humans do!

I wonder what happened to franklin, almost like he was the ship. Maybe it absorbed him and he will appear again as Destinys Avatar or something?

As far as Carter being the smartest person about hyperdrives, she is a field operative, not a lab tech. While she knows much, there are people whose entire lives are devoted to hyperdrives, and those whos whole lives are sheilds, etc. etc. Carter and Mckay arent going to be the bestest best, but that dosent detract from their abilities. Even Carter said that she helped design the Prometheus, not made it all by herself from scratch, lol.

I wonder how long itll take to cross the void? Even Daedalous took 3 weeks, and Pegasus is relatively close to the MW. Hope they finished that chess board, bet its gonna be boring.

I liked the return of the lost team, basically all they needed to get back was destiny to drop out of ftl while still in range, and it did. Lmao.

aaobuttons
May 8th, 2010, 10:43 AM
I thought the Perry story slowed things down, and Rush has gotten a bit too soft too quick for my liking. I wish they would have focused more on James's blackouts and the sabotoge. The trio getting back was a bit anticlimactic, I wish they would have had maybe a scene or two with them settling in to the planet, or at least a Scott/Greer talk on the ship. Overall, it wasn't one of my favorites, but it could have been worse... like most of the first half of season 1.

Stormtrooper
May 8th, 2010, 10:43 AM
Much to my surprise, I liked this episode. Scott, Eli and Chloe's return may have been a little too easy, but it makes sense when you come to think of it. Interestingly enough, the use of the stones was alright, or so I thought, and exposed Destiny to the alien sabotage through Lt. James. Basically, it's not safe to use the stones anymore, which is good.

Amanda Perry is a very likable character. I'm glad fans changed TPTB's minds about the whole sex in someone else's body crap. Hope we get to see her again in the future.

At last the whole Franklin and the chair thing paid off. And wow, what happened to him? Did he undergo some sort of digital ascension like those Asuran rebels on SGA and now resides on the ship's computer?

So the aliens are still following Destiny, huh? How long have they been chasing the ship, and through how many galaxies?

Nice to see the repair bot operational. How many are there on the ship? It'd be cool to see Destiny slowly returning to its former glory as the show progresses due to the little bots.

8/10

MattSilver 3k
May 8th, 2010, 10:44 AM
I'm glad fans changed TPTB's minds about the whole sex in someone else's body crap.

Oh cool... we're taking credit for that now?

Blackhole
May 8th, 2010, 11:14 AM
Ok, I'm going to use this thread and not the rewatching thread just because I'm not sure you need two threads for the same thing. But the conversation about Eli got my mind working so I watched his scenes very closely.

The first thing I noticed was this, Wallace is an extremely true "geek" type of charecter. And what I mean is, they're being very honest with his story arc. People are asking what his problem is when I think the better question is, how long will this phase last?

Here's what I think has happened. The shiny novelty of his situation has worn off. He's now past the "shock" of his situation and while his good humor has not entirely left him, he is now painfully aware of his place. He's in-demand because he's extremely intelligent. But like any geek with a job, he's in demand for what he can do for other people that they can't do themselves. This leads to a few problems.

First, he's socially isolated. Yes, we know he does "hang" with groups of people. But I believe his place in each circle is suspect at best. He's an interloper in every group. He's not a scientist because he's not a civilian from the expedition and he's too close to Young. He's not military because, well one doesn't become military simply by association. These groups want him when they need him but not as a confidant when they don't. The only other person like this (that we know of at the moment anyway) is Chloe, and she's found someone.

Second, he's obviously sexually frustrated. Not in the sense that he's not having sex (although I'm sure that's there too) but in the sense that he's not really successful in finding interested women. At first I thought this was simply a Chloe thing, but it's really not. Yes... I think he does like Chloe. But he's tried to build a rapport with James (see Time) and in this episode it is painfully obvious at the end of his conversation with Amanda that he has seen something he likes in her as well, only to find out that she's in love with Rush. Yes, things are working so smoothly for Eli that he's inclined to find the transient person in Camille's body the most interesting woman in the world. It was almost shocking upon rewatch how Eli went from complete disinterest and defeat at "Math Boy" to interested, dismayed, and jealous. In fact, the most suggestive scene he's been involved in so far involved James because she needed something from him in Darkness.

Third, and this may be a dead issue now. But in Darkness, we get the impression that the rest of the crew is using him as an information source for command decisions. That means, perhaps even if we're not being shown this on a regular basis, Eli is regularly being used. It's power that may have flattered him at one time, but a power now that he'd rather not have. There is no upside for him, and it doesn't seem to do anything for his social standing. He's a utility for others.

So here we are close to the end of the season and this theme of being needed but not wanted is hitting him like a freight train. I say he is a true "geek" charecter in the sense that before being a "geek" was cool, this is the kind of situation that often occurred. Geek wasn't chic, it was social awkwardness. And that left a lot of people with very deep emotional scars. After all, it becomes much harder to connect when the expectaction is that connection only means someone wants something. The good news is, most people transcend this phase. The bad news is, most people don't live in a fish bowl that prevents them from getting away to find perspective.

What I'm really curious about now, is where does his charecter go from this episode on. We're at disillusioned and angry. But this can easily progress towards "creepy misanthrope." The man needs a friend, and not one that thinks his math skills are neat or that he's good at listening to relationship problems. If he doesn't get one of those or possibly a sexual one, we could eventually see a charecter that makes S1 Rush look like a playful kitten.

Interesting Analysis

I don’t think in their scene Eli showed interest in Amanda. I think he was just surprised that anyone would find Rush desirable. Prior to Sabotage Rush has been cold, abrasive and unlikable. In this episode Rush was warm and approachable a nearly different character from the pre-Divided persona.

And you may be right that Eli isn’t part of any social groups yet. They evacuated on the same day he arrived at the Icarus base. He probably hasn’t had time to form friendships yet and his allegiance to Young’s side probably hasn’t helped matters. Now, I think the distinction in the two camps is disappearing and it won’t continue to affect his social interaction with the civilians.

Part of his social isolation may be his age. I think his character’s age is very early 20’s. He is probably suppose to be younger than most everyone else on board.

Part of his problem in finding girlfriends may be that is he is shy and inexperienced and a little immature. Part may be his genius. Intellectual women may find him intimidating although I think that is worse with very intelligent women than it is with men.

I suspect that in the not too distant future they will have an episode with him getting involved with another woman on the crew. If it happens it will be interesting how the writers handle the new character. Will they show them breaking up later or have her die in some crisis and have Eli go to pieces over it?

I think you are right that the novelty of their situation has worn off and the reality of it is a little disheartening. I think the positive aspect of his personality will assert itself and he won’t go all dark side on everyone.

ufgator1977
May 8th, 2010, 12:01 PM
As far as Carter being the smartest person about hyperdrives, she is a field operative, not a lab tech. While she knows much, there are people whose entire lives are devoted to hyperdrives, and those whos whole lives are sheilds, etc. etc. Carter and Mckay arent going to be the bestest best, but that dosent detract from their abilities. Even Carter said that she helped design the Prometheus, not made it all by herself from scratch, lol.



I'm pretty sure Carter has a PhD in astrophysics and I certainly would consider her more than just a "field operative". She and McKay were both very adept at troubleshooting under less than optimal circumstances. I would bet Amanda has very little field experience and something that works well in the lab doesn't always translate to the field. Amanda was the right choice if for no other reason than Rush trusted her abilities. If I recall correctly, he indicated he had a number of people in mind but considered her the best.

theta123
May 8th, 2010, 12:03 PM
Overall a great episode. The level overall goes up sligthly. I think SGU is in for a good run

Caritas
May 8th, 2010, 12:19 PM
Overall, a good episode. I did think it was sort of anti-climactic when they were gearing up for a fight with the aliens, and then nothing happened.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 8th, 2010, 12:30 PM
...it's not safe to use the stones anymore, which is good.

Amanda Perry is a very likable character. I'm glad fans changed TPTB's minds about the whole sex in someone else's body crap. Hope we get to see her again in the future...
I agree that the stones aren't safe to use, something the writers have been very good at showing us, but I disagree that "fans" (in quotes because you don't speak for all :D) have influenced the writers at all. It would already have been written anyway.

s09119
May 8th, 2010, 12:44 PM
Oh cool... we're taking credit for that now?

Fans take credit for everything... except when their suggestions go bad, then they blame the writers.

But seriously, the show would have already been written beforehand and quite possibly filmed.

Egle01
May 8th, 2010, 01:15 PM
Oh cool... we're taking credit for that now?I was disappointed they had left it out. :( No matter the reason.

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 01:39 PM
Oh cool... we're taking credit for that now?Yeah. But, to be fair, BSG talked them into it first.

k1037
May 8th, 2010, 01:41 PM
I object to Amanda Perry being the greatest expert on hyperdrives. Surely that title would belong to Carter from SG1. But given the logistics and budget it would take to get Amanda Tapping on Universe I’ll let it slide.

Carter and McKay being the "experts on everything" works in the episodic format of SG-1 and SGA, but it's incredibly unrealistic. I understand the fan sentiment behind that thought, but think about it objectively.

Carter isn't sitting around solo designing (and/or consulting) on 100% of hyperdrive construction, all Asgard-related tech, all technology in general, AND being given command of alien cities + spaceships. There's just not enough time in a day. And if she was really THAT vital, the military would never let her step foot out of Area 51, let alone roam around galaxies fighting aliens in her own spaceship. And the very, very first thing they would do is make sure a hundred other people were made aware of every single thing in her head, because it's outright insane to leave all of that knowledge in one person's head. Once the knowledge was spread around, people would specialize.

If it makes you feel better, keep in mind that Rush said he could think of "2 or 3 people" off the top of his head. Maybe #2 and #3 were Carter and McKay, respectively. Perry was just the one who had the most knowledge *specifically* about hyperdrives/propulsion. If you needed the shields fixed, though, she probably wouldn't be as much help. In that case, they would have brought on board whoever was a shield specialist. If *everything* broke, then Carter would likely be the best choice.

k1037
May 8th, 2010, 01:43 PM
In regards to the episode in general, I think Kathleen Munroe did an amazing job as Amanda Perry. Incredibly likable, and her quirks were awesome. Make her a recurring guest star!

Commander Zelix
May 8th, 2010, 01:47 PM
In regards to the episode in general, I think Kathleen Munroe did an amazing job as Amanda Perry. Incredibly likable, and her quirks were awesome. Make her a recurring guest star!
I didn't like the episode at all, but beside how her character was written, the actress doing Amanda Perry was very good. Vulnerable and likable. She didn't looks like an scientific expert of any kind tho. But it may because she didn't have something to do after all. I did like her quirks and mannerism too.

FoX-1028
May 8th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Great Episode! 8/10
Things i liked:
Destiny FTL effect with the new galaxy ahead
Repair robot
Barber shop in destiny :D
Aliens (i wanted to see them again & not only ships)
Rush finnaly getting some
James.

Things i didnt liked:
The Camile & Sharon story.. im tired of that.. looked like the second part of "Life"
SHORT Space battle :(
Aliens showed up in the last 10 minutes of the episode.
and Wheres FRANKLIN!?! :(

hisg1fans
May 8th, 2010, 02:04 PM
I found this episode pretty boring. Back to emo montages, people sitting around looking sad, and not much going on.

TeenSG coming back.....anti-climactic
Rush and the new girl.....anti-climactic (literally!)
Wray on earth.....extremely boring
Repair robot....anti-climactic
Attack of the Smurfs.....anti-climactic
James being the sabateur.....anti-climactic
Guy in the chair.....imo, he's been taken over by a Smurf, mind-melded Riley who is now a Smurf clone, guy got away, and will be taking over the Destiny. Might be interesting, but the next week previews look like a "horror film in space".

spinny magee
May 8th, 2010, 02:10 PM
It was an intriguing episode, I for one had no idea about Paraplegia until this episode, space battle could of been better I guess.....robot was so epic and Franklin dissapearing hints me that he might have for some reason ascended....or bribed Riley.

Overall O-K episode, 7/10.

Note: It bugs me that we didn't see Aliens dialing in, as far as I see it Pain is going to be the only chance to have it, as subversion will be not about aliens/having them on board.

If not Incursion really is going to be a "Holy %$#@" finale

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 02:15 PM
TJ being the sabateur.....anti-climactic Uh-huh...

Wyrminarrd
May 8th, 2010, 02:29 PM
Another boring episode imo, the on Earth stuff was as always incredibly boring and pointless.

The stuff on the Destiny was equally disappointing, the stranded people getting "saved" like that was really anti-climatic.

The fight with the aliens was once again really poorly done, these aliens simply aren't very impressive and lack any sense of true strength or ability.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 8th, 2010, 02:51 PM
...
TJ being the sabateur........


Uh-huh...

well, being pregnant has been known to make a woman nuts :)
TJ and James look nothing alike, so I don't get it? :p

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 02:57 PM
well, being pregnant has been known to make a woman nuts :)Thank God I don't have to deal with that craziness.

TJ and James look nothing alike, so I don't get it? :pAll big-breasted women are pregnant, so...umm...I dunno.

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 02:59 PM
Okay, people, say it with me. Climatic=/=climactic.
Climatic - of or relating to climate.
Climactic - of, relating to, or constituting a climax.

Class dismissed.

prion
May 8th, 2010, 03:13 PM
Jelgate's Two Cents
I remember this episode being discussed months ago when the casting call for Amanda (then Eleanor) Perry came out. It made the notion of a crippled person seem very demeaning. And fandom doing what fandom does criticized and overreacted to the casting Perry call. But I kind of knew they were wrong. And for the most part I think I was right. The episode is not without its faults and it’s defiantly not the highlight in SGU (in fact its one of my least liked) but it was defiantly better then the negative hype that was spreading almost a year ago. You know where to go.

Yawn. Sorry, but where it is written that fans must sit and go ‘oh, that’s nice’ to anything/everything that leaks on a show? Fans have ALWAYS criticized show, long before you were born. Yes, before the internet. They actually wrote those things called ‘letters.’ And if you recall, it wasn’t just ‘fans’ who were pissed off with the spoilers, folks outside of fandom were too.


In all honesty, why is Carter the expert on hyperdrives? We were never told that she was instrumental in our own hyperspace experiments, only that she knows a bit about modifying drives. Why would she be the best when we undoubtedly have people who spend their careers working in that one area now? Such as Perry.

Carter is the expert because the writers luv her. I mean, seriously, they do. Judging from watching over a decade’s worth of SGs ;)


Well, there were definitely rewrites done for Perry in this episode. Besides the name change (Eleanor was changed to Amanda), the scene in which Perry flirts with Eli was substituted with a scene in which Perry admits to Eli that she has feelings for Rush. Most of the rest of the Perry scenes that were in the casting sides happened pretty much the same way in the actual episode. Except that the scene with Rush in Perry's room was changed. In the original casting sides, Perry removed her shirt after they kissed and then they continued kissing. The casting sides didn't actually say that they had sex, so anyone who posted that they had sex were filling in what they thought would happen based on the way the scene left off in the casting sides. Also, I don't think that Perry and Rush had any sort of previous feelings for one another in the original casting sides (hence her also flirting with and basically propositioning Eli in the sides). The original Perry from the casting sides was much more about drinking/kissing/having sex (things she'd never done before), so that part of the character was toned down and a previous mutual attraction between her and Rush was included in the episode instead of Perry acting like a "girl gone wild." I much prefer the Perry from the episode to the Perry from the casting sides.

Perry from the show was much better than Perry from the sides. Yes, obvious rewrites and it’s not the first time that’s happened (SG1 fans may remember when Jonas Quinn was basically given Daniel Jackson’s background; that did not sit well with fans).

Perry was more mature, but still, the idea of having sex with Rush, using someone else’s body, is just wrong, unless it was agreed upon that hey, while you have my body, sure have sex, but just don’t eat fattening food. The whole body-swapping stuff is still squicky as the writers have yet to have a participant get upset over something the other person did (like Chloe getting drunk – yeah, thank you, the other woman woke up with a hangover).

However, oddly enough, I do like Rush a bit more after this episode.

I was hoping that Eli-Chloe-Scott would not just miraculously show up on the ship, as they did. The aliens were, eh, they’re not too threatening yet.

reddevil18
May 8th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Yawn. Sorry, but where it is written that fans must sit and go ‘oh, that’s nice’ to anything/everything that leaks on a show? Fans have ALWAYS c
Perry was more mature, but still, the idea of having sex with Rush, using someone else’s body, is just wrong, unless it was agreed upon that hey, while you have my body, sure have sex, but just don’t eat fattening food. The whole body-swapping stuff is still squicky as the writers have yet to have a participant get upset over something the other person did (like Chloe getting drunk – yeah, thank you, the other woman woke up with a hangover).
Well, the stone thing was explained in the kinosode thingy. So, yeah, basically, it's understood that sex is one of the things that might occur. In fact, it's expected.

jelgate
May 8th, 2010, 03:28 PM
Yawn. Sorry, but where it is written that fans must sit and go ‘oh, that’s nice’ to anything/everything that leaks on a show? Fans have ALWAYS criticized show, long before you were born. Yes, before the internet. They actually wrote those things called ‘letters.’ And if you recall, it wasn’t just ‘fans’ who were pissed off with the spoilers, folks outside of fandom were too.



That wasn't the point. Critique and critizing is one thing. Overreacting to spoilers is another.

EllieVee
May 8th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Oh cool... we're taking credit for that now?

Yep. Don't you feel a great satisfaction?


Interesting Analysis

I don’t think in their scene Eli showed interest in Amanda. I think he was just surprised that anyone would find Rush desirable. Prior to Sabotage Rush has been cold, abrasive and unlikable. In this episode Rush was warm and approachable a nearly different character from the pre-Divided persona.

To you. I don't see that much of a change except he's a little more open. I have always seen him as pushing people away so he doesn't get hurt.


And you may be right that Eli isn’t part of any social groups yet. They evacuated on the same day he arrived at the Icarus base. He probably hasn’t had time to form friendships yet and his allegiance to Young’s side probably hasn’t helped matters. Now, I think the distinction in the two camps is disappearing and it won’t continue to affect his social interaction with the civilians.

Yes, it's always so hard when people don't let you into their social groups after you start spying on them. Frankly, the spoiled little Me Generation kid needs to pull his head and get over himself.


Part of his social isolation may be his age. I think his character’s age is very early 20’s. He is probably suppose to be younger than most everyone else on board.

He's supposed to be 25, I believe. He's not that much of a little boy.


Part of his problem in finding girlfriends may be that is he is shy and inexperienced and a little immature. Part may be his genius. Intellectual women may find him intimidating although I think that is worse with very intelligent women than it is with men.

Shy? Where'd that come from? He's not shy, he's self-involved.


I suspect that in the not too distant future they will have an episode with him getting involved with another woman on the crew. If it happens it will be interesting how the writers handle the new character. Will they show them breaking up later or have her die in some crisis and have Eli go to pieces over it?

To their credit, the writers have tried to avoid cliches and thankfully don't take suggestions of story ideas from fans.


I think you are right that the novelty of their situation has worn off and the reality of it is a little disheartening. I think the positive aspect of his personality will assert itself and he won’t go all dark side on everyone.

I think his true personality is asserting itself now.



Okay, people, say it with me. Climatic=/=climactic.
Climatic - of or relating to climate.
Climactic - of, relating to, or constituting a climax.

Class dismissed.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/clap.gifhttp://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/clap.gifhttp://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/clap.gifhttp://www.dolforums.com.au/style_emoticons/default/clap.gif

hisg1fans
May 8th, 2010, 05:04 PM
well, being pregnant has been known to make a woman nuts :)
TJ and James look nothing alike, so I don't get it? :p

Sorry, I mixed up the names. :o Was partially asleep when typing (and watching).

I did spell anti-climactic correctly though :D (by the way, the hyphen was meant to emphasize the "anti" part of the word).

My pet peeve is people typing "should of" when they mean to say "should have", which contracts to "should've". OMG!!! That drives me nuts. And so many people do it all the time. Drives me nuts!!!

EllieVee
May 8th, 2010, 05:23 PM
My pet peeve is people typing "should of" when they mean to say "should have", which contracts to "should've". OMG!!! That drives me nuts. And so many people to it all the time. Drives me nuts!!!

I have two pet peeves. One is subject-pronoun agreement and the other is multiple exclamation marks, as Terry Pratchett says, the sure sign of someone who wears underpants on his/her head.

hisg1fans
May 8th, 2010, 05:26 PM
I have two pet peeves. One is subject-pronoun agreement and the other is multiple exclamation marks, as Terry Pratchett says, the sure sign of someone who wears underpants on his/her head.

Guilty on the mutliple exclamation marks and underpants ARE on my head :D

I thought all my subjects and pronouns matched though? Did I get some wrong? Or is this not directed at me?

LoneStar1836
May 8th, 2010, 05:32 PM
Well, the stone thing was explained in the kinosode thingy. So, yeah, basically, it's understood that sex is one of the things that might occur. In fact, it's expected.I don't watch those. If it's not shown in the show then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist for me because I don't know what's being said on those kinosode whatevers on the internet.

As to the actual episode, I liked it well enough. At least it wasn't the controversial episode that I thought it would be as I was prepared to really dislike it. Better than a number of first half episodes, but probably the weakest of the back half so far...either it or Divided.

Briangate78
May 8th, 2010, 05:36 PM
I have two pet peeves. One is subject-pronoun agreement and the other is multiple exclamation marks, as Terry Pratchett says, the sure sign of someone who wears underpants on his/her head.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :p

EllieVee
May 8th, 2010, 05:36 PM
Guilty on the mutliple exclamation marks and underpants ARE on my head :D

I thought all my subjects and pronouns matched though? Did I get some wrong? Or is this not directed at me?

Not aimed at you. :) Except for the exclamation marks, of course. ;)

Replicator Todd
May 8th, 2010, 07:24 PM
This episode would have been an easy way to get either McKay or Carter on to help fix this problem

I agree, I liked the character that was chosen. But to me it would make sense that it would be Mckay and Carter, unless they are both busy which could be likely.

mere earthling
May 8th, 2010, 07:57 PM
I'm going to have to watch the episode again, it was a bit disjointed to me. There was too much happening and some of the story lines left me wanting- the kids returning, while the Camille as the quadraplegic kinda dragged. Although I thought it was well done- I'm a nurse that works with ventilator patients so I'm a bit jaded.

The Franklin scene at the end was very BSG- I loved it.

Tuvok
May 8th, 2010, 08:02 PM
Much to my surprise, I liked this episode. Scott, Eli and Chloe's return may have been a little too easy, but it makes sense when you come to think of it. Interestingly enough, the use of the stones was alright, or so I thought, and exposed Destiny to the alien sabotage through Lt. James. Basically, it's not safe to use the stones anymore, which is good.

Amanda Perry is a very likable character. I'm glad fans changed TPTB's minds about the whole sex in someone else's body crap. Hope we get to see her again in the future.

At last the whole Franklin and the chair thing paid off. And wow, what happened to him? Did he undergo some sort of digital ascension like those Asuran rebels on SGA and now resides on the ship's computer?

So the aliens are still following Destiny, huh? How long have they been chasing the ship, and through how many galaxies?

Nice to see the repair bot operational. How many are there on the ship? It'd be cool to see Destiny slowly returning to its former glory as the show progresses due to the little bots.

8/10

Actually the synapse was for intimate scenes. The fans assumed ( including myself ) that it meant sex. Guess we underestimated the writers. Didn't occur to me Intimate was smoldering looks and making out.

SG7
May 8th, 2010, 09:34 PM
Now, of course, Eli's interpretation of what actually constitutes hard work is a little sketchy, I imagine.

LOL! I too wonder what Eli considers "hard work", given what he was used to doing before being recruited for the Icarus project and then suddenly dumped on board a self driving ship with no way home.

SG7
May 8th, 2010, 09:56 PM
In regards to the episode in general, I think Kathleen Munroe did an amazing job as Amanda Perry. Incredibly likable, and her quirks were awesome. Make her a recurring guest star!

I second that!

wurlitzer153
May 9th, 2010, 12:13 AM
I don't watch those. If it's not shown in the show then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist for me because I don't know what's being said on those kinosode whatevers on the internet.


You should find a way to watch them, as they are officially released as canon (Written by the producers, filmed with the same crew...). Links are in the 'Kino' thread in the SGU Gen forum. Although they are not necessary for understanding the show, they sometimes add a little extra information. Plus, many of them have great humor.

EllieVee
May 9th, 2010, 12:24 AM
You should find a way to watch them, as they are officially released as canon (Written by the producers, filmed with the same crew...). Links are in the 'Kino' thread in the SGU Gen forum. Although they are not necessary for understanding the show, they sometimes add a little extra information. Plus, many of them have great humor.

Some have described SGU as humorless but I have found it very funny at times, I suppose because it's more dry and ironic than laff-a-minute.

killez
May 9th, 2010, 12:42 AM
My thoughts on Franklin is he either is now one with the ship or he ascended, Hopefully they will tell us what really happened.

fmbchris
May 9th, 2010, 01:01 AM
I liked this episode

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 9th, 2010, 03:51 AM
I liked this episode

Because...

reddevil18
May 9th, 2010, 04:15 AM
Because...Ours is not to reason why. Ours is but to do and die.

Petra
May 9th, 2010, 04:18 AM
Perry from the show was much better than Perry from the sides. Yes, obvious rewrites and it’s not the first time that’s happened (SG1 fans may remember when Jonas Quinn was basically given Daniel Jackson’s background; that did not sit well with fans).


Except Jonas Quinn was never given Daniel's background. That was also purely speculation and overreaction on certain fans' part.

And since I'm on the subject of SG-1, what's up with all this outcry that Carter isn't a specialist in hyperdrives? Jelgate was correct, she is. I know that looking down on SG-1 is in a good tone around here :rolleyes: and many people weren't Carter's fans to begin with, but suddenly denying that she was a pioneer of hyperdrive technology is a little low, isn't it? Sam was said to be helping to design, working on and testing hyperdrives in Redemption, Prometheus, Memento; treated as the best specialist on them in Grace, New Order and many other episodes (no transcripts 'cos GW doesn't have them). Now, I know why she wasn't in the ep and I wouldn't even want her to be, but 1 line of explanation that Carter couldn't come because...(doing the same for McKay would be a nice nod to the SGA fans, although I have no idea what his area of expertise is) would suffice. SGU has been doing a great job of being realistically set in Stargate universe and omission of Carter in this ep was a bit jarring for me and unexpected, as she was the first person I thought about when they said they needed a hyperdrive specialist.

Anyway, onto the ep itself.

I liked it, although I thought it was the second weakest (after Human) ep of the back half so far.

Firstly, I feel cheated at how easy Eli, Chloe and Scott's return was. I avoid spoilers like a plague and after the amazing race to catch up to Destiny in Lost and jaw-dropping ending I was expecting a longer period of being stranded, maybe even some multi-episode arch? I know that the way itheir return was handled makes perfect sense, but it was so anti-climactic and low-key that I couldn't help but feel disappointment.

Secondly, I wish the writers dared to open that particular can of worms and had Mandy and Rush have sex. SGU is really good at posing interesting moral questions with no easy answers and IMO the writers lost a perfect opportunity here. So yeah, I'm disappointed.
I admit though that given the timing of Rush recently reliving Gloria's death and tenderness and sweetness Mandy and Rush's relationship was portrayed with, the way things played out was more realistic and touching.

Scott and Chloe are back together...meh.

And now the good stuff:

Pretty much everything else. I loved Eli in this one and laughed out loud at his bewilderment that anybody can find Rush sexy (I agree with him btw ;)).

Loved that Brody took the time to make booze and that people were so eager to try it. :D

Greer rocks as usual, shame he didn't have more screentime. His hug with Scott was a nice - if a bit unexpected - touch. Bromance lives, huh?

Apparently I'm in the very small minority, but I really liked Wray and Sharon's part of the story. Camille is such a cold, calculating and antipathetic person on the ship that I need to be reminded every once in a while that she's this warm, loving person in her private life. And her relationship with Sharon is definitely the most solid and reliable out of all relationships shown in the series, so it's nice to watch too. Finally, Ming-Na did a great job with her acting and having a quadriplegic as your main guest character was a bold move on the writers' part, and I commend them for it.

James and Franklin subplot was unexpected, but very touching and well done too.

I loved how Young's apathy was shown, and his scene with TJ.

And finally, this is the first episode when I can honestly say that I liked Rush in. He was so open, tender and enthusiastic that it was a true pleasure to watch. I hope to see Mandy again, just because she seems to be the only one able to bring out this side of "Nick".

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 05:22 AM
Except Jonas Quinn was never given Daniel's background. That was also purely speculation and overreaction on certain fans' part.

And since I'm on the subject of SG-1, what's up with all this outcry that Carter isn't a specialist in hyperdrives? Jelgate was correct, she is. I know that looking down on SG-1 is in a good tone around here :rolleyes: and many people weren't Carter's fans to begin with, but suddenly denying that she was a pioneer of hyperdrive technology is a little low, isn't it? Sam was said to be helping to design, working on and testing hyperdrives in Redemption, Prometheus, Memento; treated as the best specialist on them in Grace, New Order and many other episodes (no transcripts 'cos GW doesn't have them). Now, I know why she wasn't in the ep and I wouldn't even want her to be, but 1 line of explanation that Carter couldn't come because...(doing the same for McKay would be a nice nod to the SGA fans, although I have no idea what his area of expertise is) would suffice. SGU has been doing a great job of being realistically set in Stargate universe and omission of Carter in this ep was a bit jarring for me and unexpected, as she was the first person I thought about when they said they needed a hyperdrive specialist.

Anyway, onto the ep itself.

I liked it, although I thought it was the second weakest (after Human) ep of the back half so far.

Firstly, I feel cheated at how easy Eli, Chloe and Scott's return was. I avoid spoilers like a plague and after the amazing race to catch up to Destiny in Lost and jaw-dropping ending I was expecting a longer period of being stranded, maybe even some multi-episode arch? I know that the way itheir return was handled makes perfect sense, but it was so anti-climactic and low-key that I couldn't help but feel disappointment.

Secondly, I wish the writers dared to open that particular can of worms and had Mandy and Rush have sex. SGU is really good at posing interesting moral questions with no easy answers and IMO the writers lost a perfect opportunity here. So yeah, I'm disappointed.
I admit though that given the timing of Rush recently reliving Gloria's death and tenderness and sweetness Mandy and Rush's relationship was portrayed with, the way things played out was more realistic and touching.

Scott and Chloe are back together...meh.

And now the good stuff:

Pretty much everything else. I loved Eli in this one and laughed out loud at his bewilderment that anybody can find Rush sexy (I agree with him btw ;)).

Loved that Brody took the time to make booze and that people were so eager to try it. :D

Greer rocks as usual, shame he didn't have more screentime. His hug with Scott was a nice - if a bit unexpected - touch. Bromance lives, huh?

Apparently I'm in the very small minority, but I really liked Wray and Sharon's part of the story. Camille is such a cold, calculating and antipathetic person on the ship that I need to be reminded every once in a while that she's this warm, loving person in her private life. And her relationship with Sharon is definitely the most solid and reliable out of all relationships shown in the series, so it's nice to watch too. Finally, Ming-Na did a great job with her acting and having a quadriplegic as your main guest character was a bold move on the writers' part, and I commend them for it.

James and Franklin subplot was unexpected, but very touching and well done too.

I loved how Young's apathy was shown, and his scene with TJ.

And finally, this is the first episode when I can honestly say that I liked Rush in. He was so open, tender and enthusiastic that it was a true pleasure to watch. I hope to see Mandy again, just because she seems to be the only one able to bring out this side of "Nick".

Good Analysis

I agree “I feel cheated at how easy Eli, Chloe and Scott's return was.”

Sex with Rush and Mandy would have been too complicated

Eli’s bewilderment was enjoyable.

Brody’s still was a nice personal touch to all their lives.

Mandy’s quadriplegia and Wray and Sharon time together was excellent drama.

James and Franklin’s subplot was touching and really humanized her character quite a bit.

I also found this to be the first episode I liked Rush in as well.

I didn’t think Young was apathetic towards TJ at all. He was shocked by the news. She waited and hid her pregnancy from him for over 20+ weeks and then dumped the information on him at the worst possible moment in the middle of a crisis. How did she expect him to react? I realize the revelation was done this way for dramatic effect and the pregnancy storyline was introduced in the show because of the real life pregnancy of the actress. Maybe this is a male female thing. From my male perspective I would wonder how did she get pregnant? I have never had sex with a woman without making sure beforehand that birth control was in place and that if she got pregnant she fully intended and agreed to have an abortion. If the women indicated that she would want to keep the child I wouldn’t have sex with her - period. I couldn’t imagine while married, having sex with a women under my command (a huge no no!) without discussing these issues in advance, especially the abortion discussion. Maybe there are a lot of couples out there that have sex at the spur of the moment and take their chances; but I admit, I would expect that occurrence with adolescents and not with intelligent adult professionals. I would never roll around with someone unless it was clear beforehand that there was never going to be a baby. I realize that accidents can and do happen but realistically if birth control is used properly it is rare. Usually an unexpected pregnancy when birth control has always been used consistently and correctly imo, means the women lied and got pregnant deliberately, either to force the guy to marry her or to get financial support. This belief may be considered by some to be politically incorrect or sexist but imo it also usually happens to be true.

garhkal
May 9th, 2010, 06:13 AM
For most things the direction of the wormhole is one way. In that you can only travel from Destiny to that planet. People from that planet can't go to Destinty on that dial. That holds true for weapons fire as well
.

In several of the earlier SG1 eps (spirits comes to mind) we have enemy fire coming through an out bound gate (well iirc). As well as with some of the other ones where we gated to Jaffa stronholds.
Though i do remember shots coming through from an inbound one as well (early S1 where SG1 was leading a team of civies through and wanted it open a little longer.


this has been explained, in Kinosode 23, and also, in this specific episode where people had to stand up and volunteer to be in Amanda's body, given the circumstances. There is full consent given, so no exploitation is present.

All i saw there with Young and the soldiers standing there, was him explaining what her physical/mental conditions were. NOTHING about that your body here might be used by the mind inhabiting it for sex..


I'm pretty sure Carter has a PhD in astrophysics and I certainly would consider her more than just a "field operative". She and McKay were both very adept at troubleshooting under less than optimal circumstances. I would bet Amanda has very little field experience and something that works well in the lab doesn't always translate to the field. Amanda was the right choice if for no other reason than Rush trusted her abilities. If I recall correctly, he indicated he had a number of people in mind but considered her the best.

I think what the diff with Mccay/carter and Perry is that both of the former are good with all techs, while Perry is just a hyperdrive person. I know i would rather have someone who is nothing but a hyperdrive tech (which to me would make them MORE knowledgeable) than someone who is well rounded.


very first thing they would do is make sure a hundred other people were made aware of every single thing in her head

Unless they copied her mind and downloaded that into others, i Can't see them being able to do that. And who is to say if they DID that it would not also make the peopel into carter's.. I mean it does copy their mind, memories and emotions and all that jass.. so why not their personality as well.


Well, the stone thing was explained in the kinosode thingy. So, yeah, basically, it's understood that sex is one of the things that might occur. In fact, it's expected.

Which to me is a cop out, as i cannot see people willingly agreeing to that. especially if they don't know who their body is going to be having sex with..


I don't watch those. If it's not shown in the show then as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist for me because I don't know what's being said on those kinosode whatevers on the internet.


I can agree to that. Not everyone even knows where they are to watch, or has the capacity. Here in Okinawa, some sites just won't load 'streaming' content cause of the foreign IP (such as CBS/NBC and hulu), so why can't other countries have that issue..

GDKAnderson
May 9th, 2010, 06:26 AM
I'm just happy my babies (Matt and Chole) are back together.

Eestlanna
May 9th, 2010, 07:33 AM
From my male perspective I would wonder how did she get pregnant?
I believe they were using protection and it failed. Maybe beforehand she was sure she would do the abortion if needed, but getting really pregnant changed her mind. It happens and no woman can really tell how she would take it before she really gets there. Having another person suddenly living in you is pretty weird thing. :D

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 9th, 2010, 07:50 AM
...
I didn’t think Young was apathetic towards TJ at all. He was shocked by the news. She waited and hid her pregnancy from him for over 20+ weeks and then dumped the information on him at the worst possible moment in the middle of a crisis. How did she expect him to react? I realize the revelation was done this way for dramatic effect and the pregnancy storyline was introduced in the show because of the real life pregnancy of the actress. Maybe this is male female thing. From my male perspective I would wonder how did she get pregnant? I have never had sex with a woman without making sure beforehand that birth control was in place and that if she got pregnant she fully intended and agreed to have an abortion. If the women indicated that she would want to keep the child I wouldn’t have sex with her - period. I couldn’t imagine while married, having sex with a women under my command ( a huge no no!) without discussing these issues in advance, especially the abortion discussion. Maybe there are a lot of couples out there that have sex at the spur of the moment and take their chances; but I admit, I would expect that occurrence with adolescents and not with intelligent adult professionals. I would never roll around with someone unless it was clear that there was never going to be a baby. I realize that accidents can and do happen but realistically if birth control is used properly it is rare. Usually an unexpected pregnancy when birth control has always been used consistently and correctly imo, means the women lied and got pregnant deliberately, either to force the guy to marry her or to get financial support. This belief may be considered by some to be politically incorrect or sexist but imo it also usually happens to be true.

Not so much towards TJ as in apathy regarding the ones he's lost. (I think he may also be feeling a little lost with the whole situation though, don't blame him there).

As for the how, I think that was quickly hinted at when he asked her how far along she was - so he's doing the math in his head. As for precautions, I think that we've seen so far that Young is often ruled by his emotions and so it may have been spur of the moment. I commend you on your planning - that level of foresight and forethought isn't as common as you'd think, so good for you for thinking and planning. As for the character of Young though, initial planning doesn't appear to have factored in? I think it's a little soon to assume that TJ lied and got pregnant on purpose. I don't think this was easy on her or why would she have been stepping down from her post as the story begins? *Usaually*? No, I don't think it *usually* happens to be true, although I'm sure that there are some people out there that must do that. I would venture a guess that, because you have made a point of stating how careful you would be, that you have projected that same care and attention to others around you. Therefore, when people slip up, as people often do, you may be assuming that someone has done so on purpose? I don't know you though, so please forgive me if it's incorrect, but it's a valid guess :)

jeffsumm
May 9th, 2010, 08:15 AM
I think it is clear that franklin ascended. Which most likely means that ship wasn't designed to be without a crew. The ancients must have ascended and left it behind.

The question is did ancients help him, is the knowledge needed for ascension in the ship, or did the ancients figure out a away for technology to aid ascension. The cold temp could have something to do with it.

I agree, ascension has to be the reason for his disappearance. Remember, he got alot more information pounded into him than Rush did because of the buffer. Maybe it took all this time for Franklin's mind to process it. Which leads to this--did you notice how they didn't have the computers and the buffer and all that stuff hooked up to the chair this time, yet Franklin just sat in it and took control, like he knew exactly what he was doing? Very interesting.

Tuvok
May 9th, 2010, 09:01 AM
I agree, ascension has to be the reason for his disappearance. Remember, he got alot more information pounded into him than Rush did because of the buffer. Maybe it took all this time for Franklin's mind to process it. Which leads to this--did you notice how they didn't have the computers and the buffer and all that stuff hooked up to the chair this time, yet Franklin just sat in it and took control, like he knew exactly what he was doing? Very interesting.

Hmmmm...

I want to believe he ascended but lack the data to proof it. So I have to disgree.

Will be miffed however to find out the Ship burned him up as processing power...

Petra
May 9th, 2010, 09:01 AM
I didn’t think Young was apathetic towards TJ at all. He was shocked by the news.

I didn't mean that he was apathetic towards TJ; sorry for not making myself clear.

What I meant is that the general situation on the ship has finally started to wear him down. It's been months now and they are still stuck on the ship with no hope of getting home, they have to carefully ration teir supplies, there's still tension between military and civilians, he doesn't know where he stands with Rush and to top it off he just found out he's gonna be a father and lost 3 people under his command - 2 of whom were the guys he most relied on.

I kinda like how he handles the situation with TJ; it's awkard and he doesn't seem to know what to do so he falls back on her lead, but I get protective, not apathetic vibes from him towards her. I also liked that scene because it seemed more "private"; like a conversation between man and woman who were previously in a relationship rather than a CO and his subordinate, which we've been getting so far. Moments like this one help me believe that there really was something between them.

SG7
May 9th, 2010, 09:22 AM
I agree, I liked the character that was chosen. But to me it would make sense that it would be Mckay and Carter, unless they are both busy which could be likely.

There is always a fine balance on a show that is part of a franchise like SG when it comes to getting guests to appear on the show. While it would be nice or make sense to have McKay or Carter. And I too would have enjoyed either of them on the ship (seeing McKay on that ship probably would have been hillarious). However there is this balance between using the characters from the other shows too much that it looks like TPTB are just trying to grab (or are desparate for) ratings. So sometimes they may choose to use someone else instead. Also gives possibilies with the character should TPTB (and fans if there is enough support) extremely impressed with the performance and want to expand with the character into more episodes.

ufgator1977
May 9th, 2010, 10:16 AM
I didn't mean that he was apathetic towards TJ; sorry for not making myself clear.

What I meant is that the general situation on the ship has finally started to wear him down. It's been months now and they are still stuck on the ship with no hope of getting home, they have to carefully ration teir supplies, there's still tension between military and civilians, he doesn't know where he stands with Rush and to top it off he just found out he's gonna be a father and lost 3 people under his command - 2 of whom were the guys he most relied on.

I kinda like how he handles the situation with TJ; it's awkard and he doesn't seem to know what to do so he falls back on her lead, but I get protective, not apathetic vibes from him towards her. I also liked that scene because it seemed more "private"; like a conversation between man and woman who were previously in a relationship rather than a CO and his subordinate, which we've been getting so far. Moments like this one help me believe that there really was something between them.

Very nicely put. I like the fact that when she initially told him, you could see the shock on his face. He then seemed to carefully consider his next words. He then moved around and into her personal spce to reassure her. I'm not sure if that was the director or the actors but it was one of those subtle nuances I like to see in scenes.

My favorite part of the scene between them in this episode was the hand wave and the, "I'll be careful", as she was leaving. I'm hoping the situation maintains the balance they have shown so far.

LoneStar1836
May 9th, 2010, 10:53 AM
You should find a way to watch them, as they are officially released as canon (Written by the producers, filmed with the same crew...). Links are in the 'Kino' thread in the SGU Gen forum. Although they are not necessary for understanding the show, they sometimes add a little extra information. Plus, many of them have great humor.Thanks, but I'm on dial-up so I rarely watch vids, especially if they are the streaming type. These are probably short but I don't care enough to wait around for them to load. I know they are cannon, but I'm sure there are plenty of people (as in casual fans) that don't watch them. It would be nice if they had addressed some of the specific issues raised concerning the stones on the actual show. But at this point I don't really care as long as stone usage is kept to a minimum.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 11:55 AM
Not so much towards TJ as in apathy regarding the ones he's lost. (I think he may also be feeling a little lost with the whole situation though, don't blame him there).

As for the how, I think that was quickly hinted at when he asked her how far along she was - so he's doing the math in his head. As for precautions, I think that we've seen so far that Young is often ruled by his emotions and so it may have been spur of the moment. I commend you on your planning - that level of foresight and forethought isn't as common as you'd think, so good for you for thinking and planning. As for the character of Young though, initial planning doesn't appear to have factored in? I think it's a little soon to assume that TJ lied and got pregnant on purpose. I don't think this was easy on her or why would she have been stepping down from her post as the story begins? *Usaually*? No, I don't think it *usually* happens to be true, although I'm sure that there are some people out there that must do that. I would venture a guess that, because you have made a point of stating how careful you would be, that you have projected that same care and attention to others around you. Therefore, when people slip up, as people often do, you may be assuming that someone has done so on purpose? I don't know you though, so please forgive me if it's incorrect, but it's a valid guess :)

I wasn’t intending to suggest that I definitively suspected TJ has lied in this particular instance. I just didn't think it would likely happen. From all her actions she seems to be a woman of high moral character and would never do something that devious to Young. If Young and TJ had unprotected sex and didn’t discuss her values on abortion beforehand then if you roll the dice then you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

And you may be right that the number of intelligent adult couples that engage in unprotected sex without having the abortion discussion beforehand is greater than I would expect. In these circumstances the guy can’t be surprised if an accident happens. However, in those cases where the male has been very careful and has had the abortion discussion beforehand, when an unexpected pregnancy occurs it is very likely there was deceit on the woman’s part. From my medical understanding of birth control methods, if used as directed every time, their failure rates are very small.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 12:01 PM
I didn't mean that he was apathetic towards TJ; sorry for not making myself clear.

What I meant is that the general situation on the ship has finally started to wear him down. It's been months now and they are still stuck on the ship with no hope of getting home, they have to carefully ration teir supplies, there's still tension between military and civilians, he doesn't know where he stands with Rush and to top it off he just found out he's gonna be a father and lost 3 people under his command - 2 of whom were the guys he most relied on.

I kinda like how he handles the situation with TJ; it's awkard and he doesn't seem to know what to do so he falls back on her lead, but I get protective, not apathetic vibes from him towards her. I also liked that scene because it seemed more "private"; like a conversation between man and woman who were previously in a relationship rather than a CO and his subordinate, which we've been getting so far. Moments like this one help me believe that there really was something between them.

Thank you for your clarification and sorry for the misunderstanding. I fully agree that Young is starting to get worn down by everything that has happened. I think most Young haters never credit him with how thankless and difficult a job commanding Destiny would be. Imo excepting for the Rush marooning incident, I think he has done a good job.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 12:02 PM
Very nicely put. I like the fact that when she initially told him, you could see the shock on his face. He then seemed to carefully consider his next words. He then moved around and into her personal spce to reassure her. I'm not sure if that was the director or the actors but it was one of those subtle nuances I like to see in scenes.

My favorite part of the scene between them in this episode was the hand wave and the, "I'll be careful", as she was leaving. I'm hoping the situation maintains the balance they have shown so far.

Agreed

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 12:43 PM
I believe they were using protection and it failed. Maybe beforehand she was sure she would do the abortion if needed, but getting really pregnant changed her mind. It happens and no woman can really tell how she would take it before she really gets there. Having another person suddenly living in you is pretty weird thing. :D

I certainly can understand your statement. For me personally, if a situation like that occurred where we had been using protection carefully and she had indicated beforehand that she would abort the child if she gets pregnant and then reneges, I would never trust her again and have nothing more to do with her. I also understand that I am on the hook for the next 18 years providing financial child support. Imo if she had any real character and makes a unilateral decision then she should accept full responsibly for the child’s rearing and do it on her own without any financial support from me. I understand the way the courts view the situation. They assume the child’s needs always take precedent over whatever agreements were made initially between the couple. I can understand their reasoning but I don’t share it. Imo if a woman is given full control of her body to decide unilaterally whether to keep or abort the child then she should be required to accept full responsibility for the child as well. I have read about cases where a woman goes to a sperm bank to get pregnant and then goes after the donor for child support and is granted it by the judge. I think that is absolutely asinine.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 12:49 PM
You should find a way to watch them, as they are officially released as canon (Written by the producers, filmed with the same crew...). Links are in the 'Kino' thread in the SGU Gen forum. Although they are not necessary for understanding the show, they sometimes add a little extra information. Plus, many of them have great humor.

They definitely add much more understanding of behind the scenes and characters’ intent.

Eestlanna
May 9th, 2010, 01:12 PM
If a woman is given full control of her body to decide unilaterally whether to keep or abort the child then she should be required to accept full responsibility for the child as well.
It takes two to tango. All adults should be aware that there is no 100% safe contraceptive, so when two people decide to have sex, it means they are ready to face the consequence - the child. If you are not ready, then don't have sex. Even if we look aside the aspect of whether the abortion is a murder or not, it is obvious that it is very brutal to woman's body. It is equally brutal as cutting somebody's penis off and then needle it back on. You couldn't ask someone to do it. So, what I'm saying is that Young handled it very maturely.

The Mighty 6 platoon
May 9th, 2010, 01:19 PM
In several of the earlier SG1 eps (spirits comes to mind) we have enemy fire coming through an out bound gate (well iirc). As well as with some of the other ones where we gated to Jaffa stronholds.
Though i do remember shots coming through from an inbound one as well (early S1 where SG1 was leading a team of civies through and wanted it open a little longer.


Err, no, what have you been watching? With the exception of stuff like radio waves it's an established rule that stuff only goes through one way, and I can't remember a single ep where weapons fire has gone "the wrong way" through a wormhole. That includes spirits where the aliens on the planet dial up earth and shoot an arrow through.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 02:12 PM
It takes two to tango. All adults should be aware that there is no 100% safe contraceptive, so when two people decide to have sex, it means they are ready to face the consequence - the child. If you are not ready, then don't have sex. Even if we look aside the aspect of whether the abortion is a murder or not, it is obvious that it is very brutal to woman's body. It is equally brutal as cutting somebody's penis off and then needle it back on. You couldn't ask someone to do it. So, what I'm saying is that Young handled it very maturely.

You are completely right that it takes two to tango. Contraceptives if used as directed are nearly 100% effective and if unprotected sex is had the morning after pill can be taken up to five days afterwards. An early term abortion is certainly unpleasant and uncomfortable but is far from "very brutal to the woman’s body". It is no where near “equally brutal as cutting somebody's penis off and then needle it back on. You couldn't ask someone to do it”. That kind of false and ridiculous alarmist talk is propaganda used by pro-life groups to scare young people away from getting abortions. Having an unwanted baby is going to be far, far, far more traumatic and damaging to their lives than going through an abortion.

54x
May 9th, 2010, 02:23 PM
I liked sabotage. Even the earth bits. But then, I didn't really mind Life, so it's one of those difference of opinion things.

I'm with the "Franklin ascended" club. The lack of clothes is probably just a consistency fail. It was pretty clear there was something he really wanted from the chair, and needing it to finish ascending would be pretty high on my priorities list if I had been paralysed like Franklin.

I was kinda disappointed that the "dinosaur" planet could dial the ship without any help. I was convinced Eli, Matt, and Chloe were going to have to find a power source in the ruins in order to get back to the ship here. It was definitely really anti-climactic, and if they're gonna leave behind main characters to bring them back in this way, they need to just stop leaving them behind. Space is an example of how it can be done right- it introduced a HUGE conflict in order to get Rush back, which offset the convenience rather nicely. I don't want us getting main characters back without there being consequences, please, even if it's just "the characters have to work incredibly hard to catch Destiny".

Amanda was awesome. Definitely needs to come back sometime, (and with the same actor) but not too soon- I think she'd lose her power as a regular.

Initially I wondered if we were about to get introduced to the Lucian Alliance in SGU when James started talking about her "dream", but I think the fact that the blues showed up puts paid to that speculation. I think it's gonna need some explaining that the aliens knew how to sabotage the ship though. Could they have mindread that information from Rush? Do they have their own FTL drives and they recognised them when poking around in the computers? Inquiring minds want to know! :)

Despite the kinosode explanation, I still find the whole "you are giving permission for people to do anything and everything with your body" idea REALLY squicky. I don't think you can just wave off the moral issues of body ownership that easily. I kinda hope that they get some drama related to the whole "you used my body to do WHAT?" issue at some point. Hearing something in theory and having it actually happen can be two really different things. Especially if someone using a stone to get earthside does something with your body that other people earthside remember. ;)


That wasn't the point. Critique and critizing is one thing. Overreacting to spoilers is another.

Except people reacted exactly as they thought was appropriate given the insensitive and frankly stupid plotting of the sides. The episode eventually turned out well, and I'm willing to trust the writers in the future, but would the rewrites have been this good without the reaction from fans and advocates? I'm not sure, but it could have had some impact. I don't see what exactly justifies being so dismissive. I liked the episode. The sides made me cringe. I think it's fair enough to leave it at that, and have both sides stop telling people off for reacting to the show in a way they didn't like. :)

jelgate
May 9th, 2010, 02:38 PM
Except people reacted exactly as they thought was appropriate given the insensitive and frankly stupid plotting of the sides. The episode eventually turned out well, and I'm willing to trust the writers in the future, but would the rewrites have been this good without the reaction from fans and advocates? I'm not sure, but it could have had some impact. I don't see what exactly justifies being so dismissive. I liked the episode. The sides made me cringe. I think it's fair enough to leave it at that, and have both sides stop telling people off for reacting to the show in a way they didn't like. :)
Not really. They thought immediatly that the casting sides were exactly how (then Eleanor) Perry was to be written and in that turn making Sabotage a terrible and controversal nature. That obviously didn't happen which is why I said they were overreacting. Blowing some casting sides way out of proportion

54x
May 9th, 2010, 02:50 PM
Not really. They thought immediatly that the casting sides were exactly how (then Eleanor) Perry was to be written and in that turn making Sabotage a terrible and controversal nature. That obviously didn't happen which is why I said they were overreacting. Blowing some casting sides way out of proportion

Well, sure, it wasn't final, and anyone who claimed so was wrong. But I don't think it was an overreaction, given how terrible the sides were. :)

timebandit
May 9th, 2010, 02:57 PM
well if franklin did ascend it'd be cool to see some ascended-franklin scenes, what with white background and all ...

the away team issue really is about two gates dialing simultaneously into destiny, one making it and one not - though they tried immediately afterward and didn't make it - and the ship had been said to by then be definitely 'past the point of no return' ... for them to get back can only make sense as a similar safeguard to the one in air part 3 when eli stuck his hand in the event horizon .. except i can only see it as some power requirement from the planet's gate and destiny recognizing and somehow getting that gate to boost its range via subspace or something crazy like that. the team seems to really not get how they made it, but when rush said the alien may have used subspace while in james's body, it made me think, subspace .. and maybe, they found destiny when the team tried getting back? its like theyre destiny - stalkers ... creepy
[hopefully less crazy than my last "idea"]. ..

Eestlanna
May 9th, 2010, 03:08 PM
That kind of false and ridiculous alarmist talk is propaganda used by pro-life groups to scare young people away from getting abortions. Having an unwanted baby is going to be far, far, far more traumatic and damaging to their lives than going through an abortion.
As I said, don't have sex if you can't have the baby. PS. Objecting abortion as a birth control is no foolish propaganda. I suggest you deepen a bit more. I agree it must be done in several cases, but never ever use it as a birth control nor demand a woman to do it. Nowadays there are plenty of opportunities to handle things differently and more healthier.

s09119
May 9th, 2010, 03:44 PM
As I said, don't have sex if you can't have the baby. PS. Objecting abortion as a birth control is no foolish propaganda. I suggest you deepen a bit more. I agree it must be done in several cases, but never ever use it as a birth control nor demand a woman to do it. Nowadays there are plenty of opportunities to handle things differently and more healthier.

Or we could let women do what they please with their bodies and leave it at that. TJ, for example, would be perfectly within reason to have an abortion if she wanted, considering the strain on resources having a baby would be to the crew.

timebandit
May 9th, 2010, 03:46 PM
If amanda comes back to destiny to get closer aka sleep w/dr rush, who do you think she would swap with? one reason I think he hesitated from the whole thing was b/c it was Camile. [other than the obvious reason] [the 'its complicated' line].

TJ is pretty sure shes keeping the child ... theres already 80+ people on board, one child isn't going to strain it much more, is it? My concern is nourishment [food] for the poor kid in his first few years.

Commander Zelix
May 9th, 2010, 04:27 PM
Despite the kinosode explanation, I still find the whole "you are giving permission for people to do anything and everything with your body" idea REALLY squicky. I don't think you can just wave off the moral issues of body ownership that easily. I kinda hope that they get some drama related to the whole "you used my body to do WHAT?" issue at some point. Hearing something in theory and having it actually happen can be two really different things. Especially if someone using a stone to get earthside does something with your body that other people earthside remember. ;)

It doesn't make sense at all. Rush sleeping with Wray's body. It just to crazy to think about. I can't believe Wray would sign up for it. There's a big chance Wray could get pregnant or contract diseases. It's just plain stupid. What's next female soldiers sleeping with the colonel body (young) for fun? They avoid the subject to create relationship drama (read: people sleeping or not with each other) with the stones.

Daro
May 9th, 2010, 04:29 PM
You are completely right that it takes two to tango. Contraceptives if used as directed are nearly 100% effective and if unprotected sex is had the morning after pill can be taken up to five days afterwards. An early term abortion is certainly unpleasant and uncomfortable but is far from "very brutal to the woman’s body". It is no where near “equally brutal as cutting somebody's penis off and then needle it back on. You couldn't ask someone to do it”. That kind of false and ridiculous alarmist talk is propaganda used by pro-life groups to scare young people away from getting abortions. Having an unwanted baby is going to be far, far, far more traumatic and damaging to their lives than going through an abortion.

I agree that the physical damage (usually) from having an abortion isn't as bad as what can happen from a full-term pregnancy and child birth. The person who posted about it being like cutting off a penis and sewing it back on is indeed just spouting the kind of nonsense that pro-life activists shout to scare people into doing what they think they should, enforcing their beliefs and will on another human being. I'll believe actual doctors over that lot any day of the week.

However, there's a psychological factor here. Emotionally speaking, deciding to terminate a pregnancy is never, in what I've heard, an easy choice. Nor does it come without a fair to severe amount of psychological damage. Ultimately, no matter what agreements are made prior, no one knows until they're actually pregnant how they will react. I'm pro-choice, but I recognize that there's a distinct biological imperative that changes one's outlook entirely when a pregnancy occurs. A man may feel something similar, but it is not to the same intensity or degree a woman would because of the flood of new hormones that are surging through her and the much stronger instinctual drive to protect and nurture their child. Any woman who promises a man that she'll abort if she becomes pregnant is a fool; that is an empty promise that they have no way of actually knowing they can fulfill. Any man who believes such a promise is also a fool; he should be aware of these things too, and never bet on arrangements decided before the fact. Although I understand the gist of your argument, and agree to some extent (there are many women who entrap men by getting pregnant purposefully, and that sort will tell all kinds of lies to get what they want,) any mature adult who has sex must accept the possibility, however slim, that a child may result from that union. It's just wishful thinking to believe that a sexual relationship will never get much more complicated later on.

Daro
May 9th, 2010, 04:34 PM
It doesn't make sense at all. Rush sleeping with Wray's body. It just to crazy to think about. I can't believe Wray would sign up for it. There's a big chance Wray could get pregnant or contract diseases. It's just plain stupid. What's next female soldiers sleeping with the colonel body (young) for fun? They avoid the subject to create relationship drama (read: people sleeping or not with each other) with the stones.

I dunno. If the kino episode is really all it seems to be, then doesn't it seem distinctly unfair that Wray can have lesbian sex while in someone else's body, and yet the woman she swaps with can't have the same sort of freedom? Surely she is aware that the volunteers agree to let the visiting person use their body in the same way they would their own. After all, each person faces the same possibilities: sex, disease, getting drunk, getting in a car wreck, whatever. I wish they would clear it up completely, one way or the other, but I hate the idea that Amanda and Rush can't ever be together, while Wray and Sharon can do whatever they like. The biggest difference in my mind is that Destiny is a much smaller population, where everyone knows everyone else and birth control is, for all we know, non-existant.

jelgate
May 9th, 2010, 04:38 PM
I agree that the physical damage (usually) from having an abortion isn't as bad as what can happen from a full-term pregnancy and child birth. The person who posted about it being like cutting off a penis and sewing it back on is indeed just spouting the kind of nonsense that pro-life activists shout to scare people into doing what they think they should, enforcing their beliefs and will on another human being. I'll believe actual doctors over that lot any day of the week.

However, there's a psychological factor here. Emotionally speaking, deciding to terminate a pregnancy is never, in what I've heard, an easy choice. Nor does it come without a fair to severe amount of psychological damage. Ultimately, no matter what agreements are made prior, no one knows until they're actually pregnant how they will react. I'm pro-choice, but I recognize that there's a distinct biological imperative that changes one's outlook entirely when a pregnancy occurs. A man may feel something similar, but it is not to the same intensity or degree a woman would because of the flood of new hormones that are surging through her and the much stronger instinctual drive to protect and nurture their child. Any woman who promises a man that she'll abort if she becomes pregnant is a fool; that is an empty promise that they have no way of actually knowing they can fulfill. Any man who believes such a promise is also a fool; he should be aware of these things too, and never bet on arrangements decided before the fact. Although I understand the gist of your argument, and agree to some extent (there are many women who entrap men by getting pregnant purposefully, and that sort will tell all kinds of lies to get what they want,) any mature adult who has sex must accept the possibility, however slim, that a child may result from that union. It's just wishful thinking to believe that a sexual relationship will never get much more complicated later on.

Thier is a health concern to be aware of having an abortion at TJ's stage of pregnancy. Without getting too in biologicla jargon as the fetus matures and get more developed and dependent on the mother its harder and riskier for the mother to cause the abortion. Then their is Destiny's limitied medical supplies

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 9th, 2010, 04:43 PM
I dunno. If the kino episode is really all it seems to be, then doesn't it seem distinctly unfair that Wray can have lesbian sex while in someone else's body, and yet the woman she swaps with can't have the same sort of freedom? Surely she is aware that the volunteers agree to let the visiting person use their body in the same way they would their own. After all, each person faces the same possibilities: sex, disease, getting drunk, getting in a car wreck, whatever. I wish they would clear it up completely, one way or the other, but I hate the idea that Amanda and Rush can't ever be together, while Wray and Sharon can do whatever they like. The biggest difference in my mind is that Destiny is a much smaller population, where everyone knows everyone else and birth control is, for all we know, non-existant.everything is a risk :)
So\s going through a gate or ending up on a ship or walking out your front door :)
The characters are adults, for the most part, and have been exposed to risk as part of their jobs, again, for the most part. I suppose I'd give Eli and Chloe, the most civilian of the civilians, a break there, because they're not part of the Stargate project until very recently. Adults assess the risks and either take them, or don't. They take the consequences of those results, or don't. But if they don't, they don't get the benefits that adults that are willing to take risks get to enjoy. No one is forcing these adults to take the risk. there's a waiver. there's the chat that Young had where they sought someone to volunteer to take Amanda's place. These are adults making adult choices.

Commander Zelix
May 9th, 2010, 04:45 PM
I dunno. If the kino episode is really all it seems to be, then doesn't it seem distinctly unfair that Wray can have lesbian sex while in someone else's body, and yet the woman she swaps with can't have the same sort of freedom? Surely she is aware that the volunteers agree to let the visiting person use their body in the same way they would their own. After all, each person faces the same possibilities: sex, disease, getting drunk, getting in a car wreck, whatever. I wish they would clear it up completely, one way or the other, but I hate the idea that Amanda and Rush can't ever be together, while Wray and Sharon can do whatever they like. The biggest difference in my mind is that Destiny is a much smaller population, where everyone knows everyone else and birth control is, for all we know, non-existant.
I never said it was ok for lesbian sex either (there's a bit less consequences but still). If I was Wray I would have sign up for a no-use-for-sex stones exchanges both ways. But again, the writers would then not be able to use the stones for sex-related stuff.

Eternal Density
May 9th, 2010, 05:17 PM
While it makes for interesting science fiction, if the potential for a person to take mental possession of another's body existed in real life, I couldn't condone it being used for any purpose... but I don't think that's a topic for the general discussion thread.

I enjoyed this episode. Rush did good.
My main quibble is that the formerly Lost trio didn't seem to be all that concerned about almost being left behind, but when I think about it, dialog did show that they had trusted that they would be rescued, and thought that Destiny reappearing on the remote indicated an intentional rescue attempt. However, I would have liked to have seen their reactions when they were informed that the 'rescue' was only a fluke and they very nearly were left behind irrevocably.

The robot was cool, and I liked Franklin's role. That sure leaves us with plenty of questions to ask. (I like the 'Tron' theory :P). Also nice to have another Riley sighting.
It was great to see more use and development of Lt James, she's a great character. (But I really don't like the disrespectful attitude some fans have displayed towards her :( She doesn't deserve it at all.)

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 05:35 PM
I agree that the physical damage (usually) from having an abortion isn't as bad as what can happen from a full-term pregnancy and child birth. The person who posted about it being like cutting off a penis and sewing it back on is indeed just spouting the kind of nonsense that pro-life activists shout to scare people into doing what they think they should, enforcing their beliefs and will on another human being. I'll believe actual doctors over that lot any day of the week.

However, there's a psychological factor here. Emotionally speaking, deciding to terminate a pregnancy is never, in what I've heard, an easy choice. Nor does it come without a fair to severe amount of psychological damage. Ultimately, no matter what agreements are made prior, no one knows until they're actually pregnant how they will react. I'm pro-choice, but I recognize that there's a distinct biological imperative that changes one's outlook entirely when a pregnancy occurs. A man may feel something similar, but it is not to the same intensity or degree a woman would because of the flood of new hormones that are surging through her and the much stronger instinctual drive to protect and nurture their child. Any woman who promises a man that she'll abort if she becomes pregnant is a fool; that is an empty promise that they have no way of actually knowing they can fulfill. Any man who believes such a promise is also a fool; he should be aware of these things too, and never bet on arrangements decided before the fact. Although I understand the gist of your argument, and agree to some extent (there are many women who entrap men by getting pregnant purposefully, and that sort will tell all kinds of lies to get what they want,) any mature adult who has sex must accept the possibility, however slim, that a child may result from that union. It's just wishful thinking to believe that a sexual relationship will never get much more complicated later on.

I agree there are of course psychological ramifications to going through an abortion and I can understand one may feel differently when pregnant. I have known quite a few women who have had an abortion and none of them were traumatized or scarred from their experience. The lesson they learned was to be far more careful with their birth control in the future to insure it didn’t happen again. Abortion is very common. One in 3 women in this country will have had an abortion by age 45 years. Worldwide, 1 in 5 pregnancies ends in abortion, according to the Guttmacher Institute’s 2008 reports. Annual estimates are 1.2 million abortions in the US and 42 million globally. There is no evidence that demonstrates that an abortion causes any lasting trauma. The pro-life groups have tried to fabricate some but have been debunked.

Having a child in my mind is first and foremost a practical decision and should be viewed as such. I am not trying to be dismissive because you make valid points, but maybe the women I have known were different than the ones you have known. I give them far more credit to be practical and pragmatic and less emotional about their child rearing decisions. Most I have completely trusted to know themselves well enough to be certain that having an unwanted child would not be good decision for either of us and would abort it in the unlikely chance a pregnancy occurred. Ultimately, I do agree if you have sex you have to be prepared to have a child.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 07:11 PM
It doesn't make sense at all. Rush sleeping with Wray's body. It just to crazy to think about. I can't believe Wray would sign up for it. There's a big chance Wray could get pregnant or contract diseases. It's just plain stupid. What's next female soldiers sleeping with the colonel body (young) for fun? They avoid the subject to create relationship drama (read: people sleeping or not with each other) with the stones.

I think you and others are really overreacting to the whole stone body exchange thing. The Kino 23 We Volunteer To Do This Video clearly indicates that the volunteers are fully aware that they are consenting to personal meetings with husbands and wives with all that entails. If someone had a problem with their body having sex then they wouldn’t have volunteered.

Commander Zelix
May 9th, 2010, 07:16 PM
I think you and others are really overreacting to the whole stone body exchange thing. The Kino 23 We Volunteer To Do This Video clearly indicates that the volunteers are fully aware that they are consenting to personal meetings with husbands and wives with all that entails. If someone had a problem with their body having sex then they wouldn’t have volunteered.
As I said, I can't believe Wray (or most people for that matter) would sign up for it. I would sign up for a "no use my body for sex" swap.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 07:24 PM
As I said, I can't believe Wray (or most people for that matter) would sign up for it. I would sign up for a "no use my body for sex" swap.

Since Wray on an earlier swap had sex in her exchanged body she can hardly begrudge someone having sex in her body can she? Freedom to indulge in personal activities has to go both ways in order to be fair. Besides how are they going to monitor and police everyone’s personal activities anyway? This is TV show, too much attention to details would ruin the story.

jelgate
May 9th, 2010, 07:27 PM
Since Wray on an earlier swap had sex in her exchanged body she can hardly begrudge someone having sex in her body can she? Freedom to indulge in personal activities has to go both ways in order to be fair. Besides how are they going to police and monitor everyone’s personal activities anyway?

There is nothing to indicate that Wray had sex while in someone's body

Commander Zelix
May 9th, 2010, 07:30 PM
Since Wray on an earlier swap had sex in her exchanged body she can hardly begrudge someone having sex in her body can she? Freedom to indulge in personal activities has to go both ways in order to be fair. Besides how are they going to police and monitor everyone’s personal activities anyway? Besides this is TV show, too much attention to details would ruin the story.
It's not a detail. It's about using the stone about other thing than sex trivia. And avoiding an interesting issue with the stones. As for Wray nothing indicate she had sex with her girlfriend.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 07:34 PM
There is nothing to indicate that Wray had sex while in someone's body

I would have to review the earlier episodes but to my memory it was shown or clearly implied that she had sex with Sharon her significant other.

SG7
May 9th, 2010, 07:39 PM
I believe they were using protection and it failed. Maybe beforehand she was sure she would do the abortion if needed, but getting really pregnant changed her mind. It happens and no woman can really tell how she would take it before she really gets there. Having another person suddenly living in you is pretty weird thing. :D

From what I can gather, I got the impression that she may have had a feeling that she might be pregnant after having ended it with Young back on Icarus. Thus the decision to transfer out of Icarus to go to medschool (I think it was). And then TJ found herself along with everyone else stuck on Destiny. Somewhere in there she figured out that she was pregnant. And maybe even knew before the evacuation on Icarus and possibly was planning on having an abortion once she transferred out. Unfortunately being stranded on the Destiny things changed.

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 07:42 PM
From what I can gather, I got the impression that she may have had a feeling that she might be pregnant after having ended it with Young back on Icarus. Thus the decision to transfer out of Icarus to go to medschool (I think it was). And then TJ found herself along with everyone else stuck on Destiny. Somewhere in there she figured out that she was pregnant. And maybe even knew before the evacuation on Icarus and possibly was planning on having an abortion once she transferred out. Unfortunately being stranded on the Destiny things changed.

Destiny may not be equipped to do an abortion even if they exchanged with a competent surgeon. Besides since the actress was really pregnant they incorporated it into the story line.

SG7
May 9th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Very nicely put. I like the fact that when she initially told him, you could see the shock on his face. He then seemed to carefully consider his next words. He then moved around and into her personal spce to reassure her. I'm not sure if that was the director or the actors but it was one of those subtle nuances I like to see in scenes.

My favorite part of the scene between them in this episode was the hand wave and the, "I'll be careful", as she was leaving. I'm hoping the situation maintains the balance they have shown so far.

Agreed. We could see the shock. But then he took the time to make sure that he didn't say anything that would hurt her or make her feel like it was ALL her fault. And I too saw where he moved closer to her as if to be there for her. And I liked the hug because it did show that wanted to be there for her, but was in a way that also showed that they did have issues (past and or present) that they needed to work through. And he did say "we're gonna make this work". Showing TJ that dispite their previous issues and the fact that they were no longer together, he would work with her through her pregnancy to make things work for her and the baby. And that he would do his part.

And so far I haven't gotten any hint that he will do anything less than that.

jelgate
May 9th, 2010, 07:56 PM
I would have to review the earlier episodes but to my memory it was shown or clearly implied that she had sex with Sharon her significant other.
It was not. So doesn't it kind of ruin your whole arguement since their is no two way street

Blackhole
May 9th, 2010, 08:30 PM
It was not. So doesn't it kind of ruin your whole arguement since their is no two way street

No, because it was implied. In episode 9 Life, Camille is shown cuddling and kissing with Sharon on a bed and Young is shown having sex with his wife. Do you think that Camille and Sharon refrained from any further intimacy or more likely it just wasn’t shown? In my mind the implication was likely that they had sex together. Besides, through the video the show is clearly indicating that the point of the exchanges is for personal visits where intimate activities are to be expected and condoned. The video states that the exchangees clearly consent to personal activities of which sexual activities are expected. Why would they release a video if Young was the only person from Destiny having sex on their exchanges? I suggest you watch it. If you and others still have a need to continue to banter this - exchanges violate personal rights - issue back and forth please feel free, but in my mind SGU created that video to put this whole topic to rest and it is no longer an issue.

EllieVee
May 9th, 2010, 08:34 PM
No, because by my memory it was.

Suggest you watch it again then because there's nothing to imply it nor was it on the screen.

Kayzersoze
May 9th, 2010, 08:58 PM
There is nothing to indicate that Wray had sex while in someone's body
Young sure did though, while wearing Lou Diamond Phillips. Or has that already been discussed? Sorry, new-ish here.

I was just chiming in because I find this component of the show (the stones) fascinating, and think it would make a good enough story on it's own with all the possible moral/ethical aspects.

Plus, as I mentioned in another thread, I wonder just how many condoms are present on board the ship? Or how many perscriptions of BCP's? Unless the sexually active women among the Destiny crew (of which there are at least 2 confirmed) are all really good at the rhythm method or into porn-style withdrawl technique, then babies are gonna start popping out all over the place.

SciFiRick
May 10th, 2010, 12:28 AM
I think if they can get a competent doctor using the stones and remove a tracking device that was near Rush's heart by using what is available on Destiny then they can surely figure a way to do almost anything in the medical field. Speaking of the stones, they allow for more occassional SGC member guest appearances. I think using SG-1 or Atlantis past characters on occassion keeps everyone remembering that it all ties in together with the whole Stargate saga. You can still do that without messing up the SGU theme. Shouldn't everyone been excited that Daniel Jackson FINALLY made it to the Pegasus galaxy. Seeing Shepard/Mitchell and McKay/Carter interacting together with Weir on Atlantis. In my opinion that appearance with SG-1 did not hurt the Atlantis show at all and those type of "occassional" guest appearances shouldn't hurt this one either.

Infinite-Possibilities
May 10th, 2010, 01:32 AM
This episode was a good one. I think the show is starting to really hit a stride now. Despite the occasional slight dip in my interest. This was something that kept me interested. I think the Blue Aliens are the key here. The conflict they bring makes the show VASTLY more interesting than just the crew's personal problems. Also now that more stuff is going on, I'm even actually a little more interested in what the characters are all doing. I think it really helps when it's not pretty much the only thing happening in the show. Still, I think there's certainly some room for improvement left.

Jumper_One
May 10th, 2010, 04:22 AM
Craig writes: “1) Does the robot have a name? [...]

Answers: 1) Ludwig Honenberger the Third. [...]

duneknight writes: “did you guys chicken out? because of the contriversy regarding the sex scene or did you plan it like that all along?”

Answer: There were some minor changes, but no more than would be made on any script as it advances from outline to and through its various drafts. The one change that stood out for me was a little character backstory we had planned for the Lieutenant James character. Initially, she volunteers, makes the switch, panics, and backs out. Rather than being a simple freak out, we learn that her reason for backing out stems from a personal issue – specifically, the circumstances surrounding her younger brother’s paralysis. Even though it was a positive depiction of the bond between siblings, Standards and Practices felt that it cast a physical disability in a negative light because James displays grief for her brother’s condition. As a result, we had to lose it.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/may-9-2010-alain-huffman-wants-to-hear-from-you-brodys-bar-and-the-mailbag/

myhelix
May 10th, 2010, 05:47 AM
A good episode, but not my favourite, I think it gets 7 out of 10.

What I like:
-the sub plot with Franklin (did he ascend?)
-showing a softer side of Dr. Rush, I like how he talk with Dr. Perry. Wish he would be more like that when it comes to Eli and the others.
-TJ, competent as always
-the robot is cool
-we finally saw some kind of working together with Wray, Rush and Young.

Things I don´t like:
-the way Eli, Scott and Chloe got back on the ship, "hi we are here" and than nothing.
-the aliens just show up every time to fire on the Destiny, boring, and the situation is resolved how? right, they start the FTL.
-Brody don´t have something better to do than brewing alcohol?! Next episode they getting coffee, cigarettes and McDonalds! ;)
-don´t like this weeks music choice for the montage.

Eli seems to be very pissed at Rush as he talks with Mandy, wonder what was that about? He seems to be very surprised that the Dr. has feelings, too. Okay Rush can be an a.... but I never thought Eli think so less of him.
Also missed some Eli movie quotes the last two episodes, I like it when his inner geek comes through, always love that with McKay and Sheppard.

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 06:05 AM
Eli seems to be very pissed at Rush as he talks with Mandy, wonder what was that about? He seems to be very surprised that the Dr. has feelings, too. Okay Rush can be an a.... but I never thought Eli think so less of him.

I don't think Eli was pissed at all just surprised and bewildered.

garhkal
May 10th, 2010, 06:15 AM
I dunno. If the kino episode is really all it seems to be, then doesn't it seem distinctly unfair that Wray can have lesbian sex while in someone else's body, and yet the woman she swaps with can't have the same sort of freedom? Surely she is aware that the volunteers agree to let the visiting person use their body in the same way they would their own. After all, each person faces the same possibilities: sex, disease, getting drunk, getting in a car wreck, whatever. I wish they would clear it up completely, one way or the other, but I hate the idea that Amanda and Rush can't ever be together, while Wray and Sharon can do whatever they like. The biggest difference in my mind is that Destiny is a much smaller population, where everyone knows everyone else and birth control is, for all we know, non-existant.

That does bring up a point. Why should it work one way (goig home, those inhabitted forfeit/sign over the rights etc, but going to the destiny you cannot do XYZ.. I for one would rather it be one rule for both ways...


As I said, I can't believe Wray (or most people for that matter) would sign up for it. I would sign up for a "no use my body for sex" swap.



Agreed. Out of 34 or so i have chatted to in the mil here and bac in gulfport, when i was chatting about SGU, only 7 or so said "IF it was possible wht they are doing, the body swapping thing, would i agree to let sex or something similar happen". How that is just under 1/5 of those i have chatted to. NOW place this into the SG verse where they have seen LOTS of things happen with body swapping stuff, or alternates. COULD you honestly say that a good chunk of their personnel would be willing to do this, especially with the knowledge that if either side of the deal dies, BOTH die.?
No. hence my statement else where, that i think some of them were 'Voluntold to sign up'...

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 10th, 2010, 06:21 AM
.....y it just wasn’t shown? In my mind the implication was clear...."in my mind" seems to sum up a great deal of this argument as very little is actually shown on the show itself. I agree with you that Kino 23 does seem to answer the question though.


http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2010/05/09/may-9-2010-alain-huffman-wants-to-hear-from-you-brodys-bar-and-the-mailbag/
yep, minor changes are normal for anything
I love the little extra we get on James, that makes it more clear why she freaked out

SG7
May 10th, 2010, 06:51 AM
I think if they can get a competent doctor using the stones and remove a tracking device that was near Rush's heart by using what is available on Destiny then they can surely figure a way to do almost anything in the medical field. Speaking of the stones, they allow for more occassional SGC member guest appearances. I think using SG-1 or Atlantis past characters on occassion keeps everyone remembering that it all ties in together with the whole Stargate saga. You can still do that without messing up the SGU theme. Shouldn't everyone been excited that Daniel Jackson FINALLY made it to the Pegasus galaxy. Seeing Shepard/Mitchell and McKay/Carter interacting together with Weir on Atlantis. In my opinion that appearance with SG-1 did not hurt the Atlantis show at all and those type of "occassional" guest appearances shouldn't hurt this one either.

Agreed on the SG1/A characters showing up. What I always enjoyed was when I would get to see Walter from SG1 show up. Even though he was only a secondary character and not one of the main characters, I always enjoyed seeing him in SGA and seeing him in the pilot of SGU. So it isn't just the main characters returning in subsequent series that can add to the show.

And yes, if it is done right, main characters can show up in the series and it can be really really good. Like when Amanda Tapping showed up in the pilot commanding the "Hammond". That did seem fitting for her and didn't overshadow the SGU cast. Much like when O'Neill and Jackson were in the pilot of Atlantis. It seemed really fitting that Jackson was there up in the Antarctic. And was great how they got Sheppard introduced to the Stargate program and going to Atlantis. "All I did was sit in the chair!" And next thing we see is him heading off to Atlantis.

SG7
May 10th, 2010, 06:59 AM
That does bring up a point. Why should it work one way (goig home, those inhabitted forfeit/sign over the rights etc, but going to the destiny you cannot do XYZ.. I for one would rather it be one rule for both ways...

Agreed. Out of 34 or so i have chatted to in the mil here and bac in gulfport, when i was chatting about SGU, only 7 or so said "IF it was possible wht they are doing, the body swapping thing, would i agree to let sex or something similar happen". How that is just under 1/5 of those i have chatted to. NOW place this into the SG verse where they have seen LOTS of things happen with body swapping stuff, or alternates. COULD you honestly say that a good chunk of their personnel would be willing to do this, especially with the knowledge that if either side of the deal dies, BOTH die.?
No. hence my statement else where, that i think some of them were 'Voluntold to sign up'...

I don't know if sex during swapping floats my boat. Ranks right up there in the "eeewww" factor as basically it is someone else taking over your body. What happens if sex does occur and the person winds up pregnant or something? I can see kissing, cuddling and even sleeping (without sex) in bed with someone, but sex during swapping I think would creep me out.

myhelix
May 10th, 2010, 07:29 AM
I don't think Eli was pissed at all just surprised and bewildered.

To me he seems to be cranky when the topic comes to Rush. Or was it because Amanda say "maths boy" to him? I think I have to watch the scene again. :)

LtColCarter
May 10th, 2010, 08:23 AM
To me he seems to be cranky when the topic comes to Rush. Or was it because Amanda say "maths boy" to him? I think I have to watch the scene again. :)

I think its just the name...because he asks her not to call him that...

Girlbot
May 10th, 2010, 08:36 AM
I don't know if sex during swapping floats my boat. Ranks right up there in the "eeewww" factor as basically it is someone else taking over your body. What happens if sex does occur and the person winds up pregnant or something? I can see kissing, cuddling and even sleeping (without sex) in bed with someone, but sex during swapping I think would creep me out.
I certainly have to agree with this. The body you have swapped with is not yours , it is borrowed for a purpose, and even if that purpose would be to get in touch with relatives and friends or others, common decency would be not to use it for any sexual purpose, that would be abusing it.
Let's just keep the stones for the purpose of helping the Destiny , not partying or playing.

LtColCarter
May 10th, 2010, 08:51 AM
I certainly have to agree with this. The body you have swapped with is not yours , it is borrowed for a purpose, and even if that purpose would be to get in touch with relatives and friends or others, common decency would be not to use it for any sexual purpose, that would be abusing it.
Let's just keep the stones for the purpose of helping the Destiny , not partying or playing.

We've had this discussion in another thread. The thread came about when Wray swapped bodies and the issue was about swapping bodies with someone of a different sexual orientation (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/72076-Military-personnel-body-swaping-with-other-Sexual-orientation).

Coronach
May 10th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Agreed. Out of 34 or so i have chatted to in the mil here and bac in gulfport, when i was chatting about SGU, only 7 or so said "IF it was possible wht they are doing, the body swapping thing, would i agree to let sex or something similar happen". How that is just under 1/5 of those i have chatted to. NOW place this into the SG verse where they have seen LOTS of things happen with body swapping stuff, or alternates. COULD you honestly say that a good chunk of their personnel would be willing to do this, especially with the knowledge that if either side of the deal dies, BOTH die.?
No. hence my statement else where, that i think some of them were 'Voluntold to sign up'...

I highly doubt they were forced (i.e. "voluntold"?) to do anything. There are a lot of people involved in the Stargate program. Even if the amount of people willing to volunteer was under 1/5 of the total, that would still be quite a fair number who are willing to body-swap. And considering the low number of people aboard Destiny, I doubt it'd ever be a problem.

Any personal issue that people may have with swapping aside, I think there is no shortage of able and willing body-swap participants. Some of the scientists, especially, seem like they would do anything to get aboard the Destiny and work for a while. And remember, there are many civilian members of the Stargate program that could volunteer (and have on the show so far) who are not directly linked to the military.

myhelix
May 10th, 2010, 09:59 AM
I certainly have to agree with this. The body you have swapped with is not yours , it is borrowed for a purpose, and even if that purpose would be to get in touch with relatives and friends or others, common decency would be not to use it for any sexual purpose, that would be abusing it.
Let's just keep the stones for the purpose of helping the Destiny , not partying or playing.

Apropos abuse, Young do have sex with his wife in Telford´s body, and nobody seems to care about that. And after that he has the guts to be jealous of Telford for being a bit to fond of his wife, still don´t get that.
Is it something different when a man get´s used that way and not a women, it´s still rape isn´t it?

LtColCarter
May 10th, 2010, 10:26 AM
I highly doubt they were forced (i.e. "voluntold"?) to do anything. There are a lot of people involved in the Stargate program. Even if the amount of people willing to volunteer was under 1/5 of the total, that would still be quite a fair number who are willing to body-swap. And considering the low number of people aboard Destiny, I doubt it'd ever be a problem.

Any personal issue that people may have with swapping aside, I think there is no shortage of able and willing body-swap participants. Some of the scientists, especially, seem like they would do anything to get aboard the Destiny and work for a while. And remember, there are many civilian members of the Stargate program that could volunteer (and have on the show so far) who are not directly linked to the military.

I concur...there are a lot of people who'd be willing to swap bodies. I think they'd still do it even if they knew the person they were swapping with was going to bump uglies.

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 11:00 AM
I don't know if sex during swapping floats my boat. Ranks right up there in the "eeewww" factor as basically it is someone else taking over your body. What happens if sex does occur and the person winds up pregnant or something? I can see kissing, cuddling and even sleeping (without sex) in bed with someone, but sex during swapping I think would creep me out.

I agree that the practical considerations of an arrangement like that would be problematic at best, unwanted pregnancy, disease etc. The point of Earth visits for many of the Destiny crew is to spend intimate time with their loved ones. The price for unlimited use may be the willingness to allow it for their own body as well. The Kino 23 We Volunteer To Do This Video is trying to show that Stargate Command is aware of the sensitive and awkward nature of body swapping and is trying to make sure the volunteers are making an informed decision. For all we know there may be different levels of intimate exchange available. There could be a limited G version available. The problem then arises how are they going to monitor and police what goes on during the exchanges? What is to stop someone from being sneaky and choosing a G version and then going ahead and having sex anyway. That way they get to have sex and their own body does not. Assuming the G person they switched with isn’t sneaky as well. The whole situation could quickly deteriorate and become unworkable. The easiest way to handle it may be to specify that all exchanges are unlimited and intimate encounters are an assumed risk for all that volunteer. SGU is a 43 minute weekly show. They may not want to focus on all the complicated scenarios that would arise from body swapping; so they put out the Kino 23 video and leave it at that.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 10th, 2010, 11:33 AM
I agree that the practical considerations of an arrangement like that would be problematic at best, unwanted pregnancy, disease etc. The point of Earth visits for many of the Destiny crew is to spend intimate time with their loved ones. The price for unlimited use may be the willingness to allow it for their own body as well. The Kino 23 We Volunteer To Do This Video is trying to show that Stargate Command is aware of the sensitive and awkward nature of body swapping and is trying to make sure the volunteers are making an informed decision. For all we know there may be different levels of intimate exchange available. There could be a limited G version available. The problem then arises how are they going to monitor and police what goes on during the exchanges? What is to stop someone from being sneaky and choosing a G version and then going ahead and having sex anyway. That way they get to have sex and their own body does not. Assuming the G person they switched with isn’t sneaky as well. The whole situation could quickly deteriorate and become unworkable. The easiest way to handle it may be to specify that all exchanges are unlimited and intimate encounters are an assumed risk for all that volunteer. SGU is a 43 minute weekly show. They may not want to focus on all the complicated scenarios that would arise from body swapping; so they put out the Kino 23 video and leave it at that.

maybe they expect adults to act like adults and don't need to be policing it once consent is given between the people involved? Why is it anyone elses' business what consenting adults do with their bodies? If two adults want to have sex with each other via stone, and the three people involved have consented to that, why is it any of my business what they do?

LtColCarter
May 10th, 2010, 11:55 AM
I agree that the practical considerations of an arrangement like that would be problematic at best, unwanted pregnancy, disease etc. The point of Earth visits for many of the Destiny crew is to spend intimate time with their loved ones. The price for unlimited use may be the willingness to allow it for their own body as well. The Kino 23 We Volunteer To Do This Video is trying to show that Stargate Command is aware of the sensitive and awkward nature of body swapping and is trying to make sure the volunteers are making an informed decision. For all we know there may be different levels of intimate exchange available. There could be a limited G version available. The problem then arises how are they going to monitor and police what goes on during the exchanges? What is to stop someone from being sneaky and choosing a G version and then going ahead and having sex anyway. That way they get to have sex and their own body does not. Assuming the G person they switched with isn’t sneaky as well. The whole situation could quickly deteriorate and become unworkable. The easiest way to handle it may be to specify that all exchanges are unlimited and intimate encounters are an assumed risk for all that volunteer. SGU is a 43 minute weekly show. They may not want to focus on all the complicated scenarios that would arise from body swapping; so they put out the Kino 23 video and leave it at that.

This is pretty much the conclusion we came to in the "body swapping with people of other sexual orientations" thread. When you volunteer, your consciousness isn't in your body...its in another body.

Girlbot
May 10th, 2010, 11:59 AM
Apropos abuse, Young do have sex with his wife in Telford´s body, and nobody seems to care about that. And after that he has the guts to be jealous of Telford for being a bit to fond of his wife, still don´t get that.
Is it something different when a man get´s used that way and not a women, it´s still rape isn´t it?
I cared . It is offensive no matter what the gender.

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 12:14 PM
maybe they expect adults to act like adults and don't need to be policing it once consent is given between the people involved? Why is it anyone elses' business what consenting adults do with their bodies? If two adults want to have sex with each other via stone, and the three people involved have consented to that, why is it any of my business what they do?

An easy way to handle it is for each person to leave written instructions about themselves to be read by the exchangee. Any food or medication allergies, type of birth control in place, always use a condom etc. The women on Destiny would probably have the most to worry about birth control. Unless they had a long acting form in place they may now be fertile. You would hope the Destiny crew exchanged to Earth would be careful with anyone they had sex with. You wouldn’t want them to go out clubbing and catch something. I think that would be unlikely. If someone took advantage or did something stupid they could loose their visitation privileges. I doubt many on Destiny would be so foolish as to risk it. Besides most of the Earth volunteers are going to be pretty open otherwise they never would have signed up.

If everyone respects and honors the wishes of their host body then I completely agree with you. We have seen from SGU that is often not the case and that would be when the problems would arise.

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 12:17 PM
This is pretty much the conclusion we came to in the "body swapping with people of other sexual orientations" thread. When you volunteer, your consciousness isn't in your body...its in another body.

As long as each participant is reasonable and considerate and avoids any injuries and lasting problems to their host body they are free to enjoy themselves.

Petra
May 10th, 2010, 12:34 PM
maybe they expect adults to act like adults and don't need to be policing it once consent is given between the people involved? Why is it anyone elses' business what consenting adults do with their bodies? If two adults want to have sex with each other via stone, and the three people involved have consented to that, why is it any of my business what they do?

:indeed:

Thank you for saying this.
It was established in the show that people who volunteer to use the stones consent to the possibility of sexual use of their bodies. If the idea squicks you (general you, including the characters) or you find it unacceptable for whatever reason you don't use the stones. End of the story.

That also means that you don't have a right to pass moral judgement on others who do consent, or to be outraged that someone was "raped" when it clearly wasn't the case. There's a difference between acting according to your own beliefs and morals and judging others according to your own set of beliefs and morals.

Crying that Telford was raped is nothing more than projecting your own morals on somebody else. He consented. Emily consented. Young consented. Therefore there was no rape.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 10th, 2010, 12:36 PM
:indeed:

Thank you for saying this.
It was established in the show that people who volunteer to use the stones consent to the possibility of sexual use of their bodies. If the idea squicks you (general you, including the characters) or you find it unacceptable for whatever reason you don't use the stones. End of the story.

That also means that you don't have a right to pass moral judgement on others who do consent, or to be outraged that someone was "raped" when it clearly wasn't the case. There's a difference between acting according to your own beliefs and morals and judging others according to your own set of beliefs and morals.

Crying that Telford was raped is nothing more than projecting your own morals on somebody else. He consented. Emily consented. Young consented. Therefore there was no rape.

green for that!

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 03:55 PM
:indeed:

Thank you for saying this.
It was established in the show that people who volunteer to use the stones consent to the possibility of sexual use of their bodies. If the idea squicks you (general you, including the characters) or you find it unacceptable for whatever reason you don't use the stones. End of the story.

That also means that you don't have a right to pass moral judgement on others who do consent, or to be outraged that someone was "raped" when it clearly wasn't the case. There's a difference between acting according to your own beliefs and morals and judging others according to your own set of beliefs and morals.

Crying that Telford was raped is nothing more than projecting your own morals on somebody else. He consented. Emily consented. Young consented. Therefore there was no rape.

Well Put!

Daro
May 10th, 2010, 04:15 PM
Thier is a health concern to be aware of having an abortion at TJ's stage of pregnancy. Without getting too in biologicla jargon as the fetus matures and get more developed and dependent on the mother its harder and riskier for the mother to cause the abortion. Then their is Destiny's limitied medical supplies

I'm not saying TJ should have an abortion, just getting a bit OT on the debate. TJ absolutely is in no position, at the stage of pregnancy she's in, to try and get an abortion. It's far too dangerous.

EllieVee
May 10th, 2010, 04:32 PM
Eli seems to be very pissed at Rush as he talks with Mandy, wonder what was that about? He seems to be very surprised that the Dr. has feelings, too. Okay Rush can be an a.... but I never thought Eli think so less of him.

Eli will agree with those with whom he wants to be friends (i.e. Scott and Chloe). Scott hates Rush because Young does therefore Eli does. It's all very schoolyard but then Eli is extremely immature.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 10th, 2010, 04:36 PM
I'm still not seeing all this hate you talk about
seems to me they'd decided to mend fences

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 04:53 PM
I'm still not seeing all this hate you talk about
seems to me they'd decided to mend fences

I agree. I have never seen an iota of evidence of hate of Rush from Scott or Eli. I often wonder if she is watching the same show as we are?

Blackhole
May 10th, 2010, 05:20 PM
Eli will agree with those with whom he wants to be friends (i.e. Scott and Chloe). Scott hates Rush because Young does therefore Eli does. It's all very schoolyard but then Eli is extremely immature.

In Divided when Rush refused to release the lock out code to the weapons, Young aimed his gun at him. Scott verbally interceded and diffused the situation. That isn’t the action of a man that hates him.

In Sabotage when Eli returned through the gate from the planet with the others he greeted Rush warmly with a big smile and returned his glasses to him. Again that isn’t the action of a man that hates him.

I have never seen any indication of hate directed at Rush from Scott or Eli at all. Where and when has Scott or Eli done or said anything to demonstrate they hate Rush? Please post an example?

Phenom
May 10th, 2010, 06:28 PM
Eli hates Rush? Must have missed that ep.

SG7
May 10th, 2010, 07:18 PM
:indeed:

Thank you for saying this.
It was established in the show that people who volunteer to use the stones consent to the possibility of sexual use of their bodies. If the idea squicks you (general you, including the characters) or you find it unacceptable for whatever reason you don't use the stones. End of the story.

That also means that you don't have a right to pass moral judgement on others who do consent, or to be outraged that someone was "raped" when it clearly wasn't the case. There's a difference between acting according to your own beliefs and morals and judging others according to your own set of beliefs and morals.

Crying that Telford was raped is nothing more than projecting your own morals on somebody else. He consented. Emily consented. Young consented. Therefore there was no rape.

While I find it rather "eeewww". I don't have any problem with it as long as all three (or four parties if there are two spouces involved) agree to it. It really only creeps me out when not all parties involved consent to it or one party does something that was not agreed upon.

EllieVee
May 10th, 2010, 07:23 PM
I'm still not seeing all this hate you talk about
seems to me they'd decided to mend fences

Scott is a parrot of Young. Eli is a parrot of Scott.

SG7
May 10th, 2010, 08:51 PM
I'm not saying TJ should have an abortion, just getting a bit OT on the debate. TJ absolutely is in no position, at the stage of pregnancy she's in, to try and get an abortion. It's far too dangerous.

Especially with her like everyone else, stranded on Destiny without the proper medical equipment. We are lucky that Rush was able to get the implant removed from him without killing him. Hard to say what an abortion done on Destiny (in the conditions and with the limited supplies and equipment) at her stage of pregnancy would do. Nevermind the fact that she has been carrying the baby for about 22-25 weeks give or take (depending on how much time has passed since "Lost"), and would surely have emotional ties to the baby. I'm just hoping that at this point there isn't anyone on board Destiny who feels that she should have one. I have been enjoying AH and TJ sooo much that I hope that doesn't happen. I would at least like to see her carry her baby to term.

We've already seen that Young has accepted TJ's pregnancy. And we didn't see anyone in this episode object to her pregnancy. In fact after the attack where people were thrown everywhere, Greer was right there making sure that she was ok.

Cylykon
May 10th, 2010, 10:21 PM
Ok, I finally got to this this ep on my DVR and I haven't read the previous 11 pages. I really grow tired of the stones... as a plot device, they offer little more than what Being John Malkovich offered, except that Telford has yet to stone into himself with the ensuing hilarity. And the ending? I predict that Franklin will be quickly forgotten just as the Senator was. Well, maybe in season 5 power will finally be restored to the last unexplored part of Destiny and Eli will stumble across the corpses of the Senator and Dr. Franklin, posed as though they were playing Gin Rummy, and it will never be mentioned again... not even to speculate about how and why they got there. Oh well, four more episodes before I decide whether or not I'm going to buy SG-U on Blu-ray and watch season 2.

Daro
May 10th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Scott is a parrot of Young. Eli is a parrot of Scott.

That's not entirely fair to Scott. Scott has already shown that he is not, in fact, a parrot of Young. He has at least attempted to disobey orders three times I can think of; in "Air," by not helping Young kill himself. In "Space," when he recruits a fellow officer to go save Chloe while his commanding officer was intent on blowing her up, and in "Faith," when he wanted to stay on the planet to protect TJ.

I don't think Scott likes Rush. But I don't think he hates him either. In fact, we've seen little one way or the other to indicate that. Scott and Rush have had little dialogue since "Air," which is a shame, but when they do, I've noticed that Scott is more likely than almost any other character to call him "Dr. Rush" instead of simply "Rush."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but after a nasty comment or two in "Air," I can't even remember the last time Scott insulted or talked badly about Rush.

I think Eli doesn't know what hate is yet. Eli doesn't hate Rush, or else he wouldn't be so sympathetic to him at times (in Divided, he points out to Young, knowing that Young had tried to kill Rush before, that Rush spared their lives. Later, he looks genuinely horrified and concerned when Rush tells him about the implant.)

He doesn't like Rush, to be sure, and I agree it's because Rush refused to baby him and tell him what a good boy he was just for getting up in the morning. And also, Rush got him onto Destiny. Sure, Eli was cool with it six months ago, but now he apparently wishes he was elsewhere. Probably since he's had to actually work, and that isn't his favorite thing to do. Eli also faces the real possibility that his mother will, despite the Air Force's best efforts, take a turn for the worse and he won't be there for her. I think if that happened, Eli might blame Rush and end up truly hating him; I kinda expect this to happen at some point. The irony of it is too much for a writer to pass up, and I'm sure Rush would feel terrible for playing a part in denying Eli the final moments with his mother. Just like Rush missed being with his wife in her final days.

garhkal
May 11th, 2010, 05:12 AM
I highly doubt they were forced (i.e. "voluntold"?) to do anything. There are a lot of people involved in the Stargate program. Even if the amount of people willing to volunteer was under 1/5 of the total, that would still be quite a fair number who are willing to body-swap. And considering the low number of people aboard Destiny, I doubt it'd ever be a problem.

Any personal issue that people may have with swapping aside, I think there is no shortage of able and willing body-swap participants. Some of the scientists, especially, seem like they would do anything to get aboard the Destiny and work for a while. And remember, there are many civilian members of the Stargate program that could volunteer (and have on the show so far) who are not directly linked to the military.

Where are you getting that there are a lot of people?? We have what, 22 teams. That makes 88 people (4 man teams), around 12 we have seen as static members of the base (not including the med staff). So that gives us on the upside around 120 for the SGC.
The people of homeworld security would be another matter, tha tplus i cannot see them taking that many from an active ship/team for stone duty.


There could be a limited G version available. The problem then arises how are they going to monitor and police what goes on during the exchanges? What is to stop someone from being sneaky and choosing a G version and then going ahead and having sex anyway. That way they get to have sex and their own body does not. Assuming the G person they switched with isn’t sneaky as well. The whole situation could quickly deteriorate and become unworkable

Plus the one you swap into concents for that, but what of the spouse? Is he or she concenting to having sex with a total stranger's body (Or for the one being "RIDDEN" having their SO knowing you ar effectively commiting adultery). Heck they still have not addressed what happens if during the swap the one you are in gets someone preg (for the men) or BECOMES preg for the ladies...


It was established in the show that people who volunteer to use the stones consent to the possibility of sexual use of their bodies. If the idea squicks you (general you, including the characters) or you find it unacceptable for whatever reason you don't use the stones. End of the story.

It was established on a KINOsode, not the show. And how they went around doing it, along with how 'dancy around it' she seemed making it, that makes me wonder how truthful she was being.

SG7
May 11th, 2010, 05:13 AM
He doesn't like Rush, to be sure, and I agree it's because Rush refused to baby him and tell him what a good boy he was just for getting up in the morning. And also, Rush got him onto Destiny. Sure, Eli was cool with it six months ago, but now he apparently wishes he was elsewhere. Probably since he's had to actually work, and that isn't his favorite thing to do. Eli also faces the real possibility that his mother will, despite the Air Force's best efforts, take a turn for the worse and he won't be there for her. I think if that happened, Eli might blame Rush and end up truly hating him; I kinda expect this to happen at some point. The irony of it is too much for a writer to pass up, and I'm sure Rush would feel terrible for playing a part in denying Eli the final moments with his mother. Just like Rush missed being with his wife in her final days.

Spot on! I don't see Eli falling into the "we're buddy buddy" camp just yet. And if something were to happen to his mother that she passes away while he is on board Destiny, then Rush will definately not get much friendship from Eli. It definately would be irony if Eli's mother passes away while he is on Destiny much like Rushes wife passed away while he was on Icarus.

And I too think that the reality is really setting in for Eli. When we saw him just sitting there reading and listening to music. I almost got the sense that he felt like he didn't belong there. And when Perry commented on Rush, I think that Eli was just surprised that anyone could actually find anything worth being attracted to in Rush.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 07:36 AM
While I find it rather "eeewww". I don't have any problem with it as long as all three (or four parties if there are two spouces involved) agree to it. It really only creeps me out when not all parties involved consent to it or one party does something that was not agreed upon.

there is a wonderful trick this show does, the actual real body used and seen by the characters is not shown to us, instead we see the body of the consiousness residing within it. which is why many of you are finding the whole sex swap acceptable.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 07:40 AM
on the subject of Eli's mother, i remember that she was suffering from HIV or something similar, of all diseases someones mother could have, did they have to pick that one? i mean its sort of rare in this day and age.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 11th, 2010, 07:44 AM
there is a wonderful trick this show does, the actual real body used and seen by the characters is not shown to us, instead we see the body of the consiousness residing within it. which is why many of you are finding the whole sex swap acceptable.I don;t think it's wise to presume why people may find something acceptable. I find it acceptable because what other people consent to isn't my business, no matter who it is.


on the subject of Eli's mother, i remember that she was suffering from HIV or something similar, of all diseases someones mother could have, did they have to pick that one? i mean its sort of rare in this day and age.HIV rare in this day and age? Are you serious?

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 08:23 AM
I don;t think it's wise to presume why people may find something acceptable. I find it acceptable because what other people consent to isn't my business, no matter who it is.

what? the hell you talking about. i aint talking about what people find acceptable, since i dont know anyone who accepted to have a body swap and have his body used for some stranger's sexual needs. we are talking about characters on a TV show that seem to have no problem doing that or even questioning the strangness of it. its as though these "average" characters have transcended all cultural morals in a few episodes.





HIV rare in this day and age? Are you serious?

yeah i think its not much of an issue today, and the stigma isnt there today either so i dont know why the writers chose that disease.

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 08:29 AM
Eli hates Rush? Must have missed that ep.

Me too!

SG7
May 11th, 2010, 09:08 AM
I don;t think it's wise to presume why people may find something acceptable. I find it acceptable because what other people consent to isn't my business, no matter who it is.

Agreed. As long as it doesn't affect anyone but the parties involved, then what they do behind closed doors is their own buisness.

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Agreed. As long as it doesn't affect anyone but the parties involved, then what they do behind closed doors is their own buisness.

:indeed:

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 09:50 AM
you guys are very naive. im questioning the realism of it as well. very few people in reality would agree to such a thing but in the show, all characters seemed to be very accepting of it.
clearly, what the writers initially had in mind was that characters would take advantage of the body swap thing and not take permission but TPTB, after fan reaction, changed it by adding a kino webisode. thats hilarious.

Daro
May 11th, 2010, 09:57 AM
yeah i think its not much of an issue today, and the stigma isnt there today either so i dont know why the writers chose that disease.

What? It isn't a stigma because it's not just gay men, as originally believed, who get it anymore. It is nurses, people who need blood transfusions, etc. And it's common enough. They chose it because it is a disease you can get through no fault of your own, because you can live a long time with the virus in your system without dying, and because it is, eventually, a death sentence. It makes perfect sense. I don't insist that the writers make every minor character into a statement about current events. Eli's mother will almost certainly die sometime in the course of the series. This will make a major impact on him, which will in turn impact the plot. Nearly any other disease they could have chosen is either extremely uncommon, or it's not always terminal.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 10:04 AM
unless you live in an African country or a nurse then its not a big deal anymore. the reason they chose AIDS instead of say cancer, is because the audience will never believe that the government is able to travel between galaxies, teleport, battle intelligent aliens in space, cloak almost anything, time travel, all that and still not being able to cure a disease like cancer. AIDS i guess was a safer bet as it entered public conscious as an invincible disease.

Coronach
May 11th, 2010, 10:07 AM
unless you live in an African country or a nurse then its not a big deal anymore. the reason they chose AIDS instead of say cancer, is because the audience will never believe that the government is able to travel between galaxies, teleport, battle intelligent aliens in space, cloak almost anything, time travel, all that and still not being able to cure a disease like cancer.

Then it was silly to choose AIDS in that case, considering the prospects of a cure-all for AIDS are much better than a cure-all for cancer by the very nature of the diseases themselves. Any biologist will tell you that the idea of a "cure for cancer" makes little (if any) sense, whereas with AIDS it can at least be defined by how best to inhibit the virus itself.

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 11th, 2010, 10:09 AM
unless you live in an African country or a nurse then its not a big deal anymore. the reason they chose AIDS instead of say cancer, is because the audience will never believe that the government is able to travel between galaxies, teleport, battle intelligent aliens in space, cloak almost anything, time travel, all that and still not being able to cure a disease like cancer.

o.0

Daro
May 11th, 2010, 10:12 AM
unless you live in an African country or a nurse then its not a big deal anymore. the reason they chose AIDS instead of say cancer, is because the audience will never believe that the government is able to travel between galaxies, teleport, battle intelligent aliens in space, cloak almost anything, time travel, all that and still not being able to cure a disease like cancer. AIDS i guess was a safer bet as it entered public conscious as an invincible disease.

Have you even bothered to look at the rate of AIDS infection in America, which is the country in question? It being an epidemic in Africa is entirely beside the point. The writers already had Rush's wife die of cancer, and doing that with Eli's mom would have been redundant. It is neither unrealistic or uncommon for someone to have HIV. Also, with that disease, there is a long period of stability, sometimes decades. When you have cancer, there is no such thing. The treatments are as awful as the cancer itself sometimes, and Eli would never have left his mother if she was going through chemo or something like that.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 10:13 AM
Then it was silly to choose AIDS in that case, considering the prospects of a cure-all for AIDS are much better than a cure-all for cancer by the very nature of the diseases themselves. Any biologist will tell you that the idea of a "cure for cancer" makes little (if any) sense, whereas with AIDS it can at least be defined by how best to inhibit the virus itself.

if that is so, then they shouldve chosen cancer or made up an entirly new disease. however how many times are scientist gonna keep telling us that they found a cure for AIDS? they keep saying that but the situation hasnt changed.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 10:16 AM
Have you even bothered to look at the rate of AIDS infection in America, which is the country in question? It being an epidemic in Africa is entirely beside the point. The writers already had Rush's wife die of cancer, and doing that with Eli's mom would have been redundant. It is neither unrealistic or uncommon for someone to have HIV. Also, with that disease, there is a long period of stability, sometimes decades. When you have cancer, there is no such thing. The treatments are as awful as the cancer itself sometimes, and Eli would never have left his mother if she was going through chemo or something like that.

if you look around you, you notice not many people got AIDS. cancer on the other hand is everywhere. public awareness can stop AIDS alone but cancer needs a cure.

jelgate
May 11th, 2010, 10:20 AM
if you look around you, you notice not many people got AIDS. cancer on the other hand is everywhere. public awareness can stop AIDS alone but cancer needs a cure.

That a common misconception. Just because its not big in the media doesn't mean its not a serious diease. Nor am I saying AIDs is more deadly then cancer because it isn't. But 33.7 million people have AIDS. That is no small number

Coronach
May 11th, 2010, 10:21 AM
if that is so, then they shouldve chosen cancer or made up an entirly new disease. however how many times are scientist gonna keep telling us that they found a cure for AIDS? they keep saying that but the situation hasnt changed.

Why? AIDS is absolutely debilitating and the context in which Eli's mom was infected makes perfect sense. These things do happen.

As per your second statement, it seems to me that you don't quite understand how science works. Any scientist worth their merit would never say they've found a "cure" for AIDS unless said treatment had undergone very rigorous testing and had proven itself effective. My guess is that a groundbreaking new treatment was discovered but the media twisted it into being some sort of "wonder drug", as they so often do.

MattSilver 3k
May 11th, 2010, 10:22 AM
Guys - there is no use arguing. We're too naive to understand!

Ian-S
May 11th, 2010, 10:24 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned (not gonna read all 12 pages, especially if they're arguments over morality), but regarding Franklin, maybe he's hiding round the corner and is gonna jump out and go I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 10:30 AM
unless you live in an African country or a nurse then its not a big deal anymore. the reason they chose AIDS instead of say cancer, is because the audience will never believe that the government is able to travel between galaxies, teleport, battle intelligent aliens in space, cloak almost anything, time travel, all that and still not being able to cure a disease like cancer. AIDS i guess was a safer bet as it entered public conscious as an invincible disease.

Really? I mean seriously?


if you look around you, you notice not many people got AIDS. cancer on the other hand is everywhere. public awareness can stop AIDS alone but cancer needs a cure.

ROLFMAO...The public was made aware of AIDS over 30 years ago...and its still here.

And why would they give Eli's Mom cancer when they already did that to Rush's wife? If they did that, then people would complain about the lack of creativity...

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 10:30 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned (not gonna read all 12 pages, especially if they're arguments over morality), but regarding Franklin, maybe he's hiding round the corner and is gonna jump out and go I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

He sortta melted in this episode.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 10:32 AM
i have done some research, if you call googling research and came up with this:

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

it basically says that more than 1 million in USA have AIDS (out of 300 million). and most people who have AIDS are either african-american or homosexual or both. of course thats a generalisation because its statistics.

Eli's mom doesnt fit the bill here.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 10:35 AM
He sortta melted in this episode.

how did you come up with that?

jelgate
May 11th, 2010, 10:36 AM
i have done some research, if you call googling research and came up with this:

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

it basically says that more than 1 million in USA have AIDS (out of 300 million). and most people who have AIDS are either african-american or homosexual or both. of course thats a generalisation because its statistics.

Eli's mom doesnt fit the bill here.

Thats because sexual conduct is just the most common way to get HIV/AIDs. Their are other ways to get it like a sharing of a needle which is quite possible if Eli's mom was a nurse

Coronach
May 11th, 2010, 10:36 AM
i have done some research, if you call googling research and came up with this:

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

it basically says that more than 1 million in USA have AIDS (out of 300 million). and most people who have AIDS are either african-american or homosexual.

Eli's mom doesnt fit the bill here.

The statistics are fine, but the bolded part completely does not follow. That would be like saying children "don't fit the bill" in getting cancer, simply because the vast majority of cancer cases are in late adulthood.

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 10:37 AM
i have done some research, if you call googling research and came up with this:

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

it basically says that more than 1 million in USA have AIDS (out of 300 million). and most people who have AIDS are either african-american or homosexual or both. of course thats a generalisation because its statistics.

Eli's mom doesnt fit the bill here.

Ummm...it says African-Americans and Hispanic people....

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 10:38 AM
Thats because sexual conduct is just the most common way to get HIV/AIDs. Their are other ways to get it like a sharing of a needle which is quite possible if Eli's mom was a nurse

Very true

xxxevilgrinxxx
May 11th, 2010, 10:40 AM
if you look around you, you notice not many people got AIDS. cancer on the other hand is everywhere. public awareness can stop AIDS alone but cancer needs a cure.Jelgate above beat me to the number but yeah, that's quite a bit more than "not many". A curious creature by nature, there's a part of me that wonders how you could have reached such an idea but I'd rather not jack up the thread, so, moving on...


I don't know if this has been mentioned (not gonna read all 12 pages, especially if they're arguments over morality), but regarding Franklin, maybe he's hiding round the corner and is gonna jump out and go I'M BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!
snorks :)
"I was behind the chair the whole time!"

Coronach
May 11th, 2010, 10:41 AM
snorks :)
"I was behind the chair the whole time!"

Franklin: Hay guyz wats goin on?!!1

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 10:46 AM
Thats because sexual conduct is just the most common way to get HIV/AIDs. Their are other ways to get it like a sharing of a needle which is quite possible if Eli's mom was a nurse

those people are called drug addicts and they get it from the streets. i think its very rare for a nurse to end up with AIDS unless shes not too good at what she does. nonetheless im not disputing the possiblity since virtually anyone could get it (its called bad luck), im more concerned about why the writers chose that disease in particular.

Lemontree
May 11th, 2010, 10:57 AM
The further the plot develops, the really faszinating new approach in SG-U actually enfolds with each new episode a little more. These are characters, who have qualities and personal handicaps which cannot oppose each one of the people on board more. No person is good or bad. But usually, one lives and works in a surrounding which enables one to fraternise with those, close to the own upbringing or life experience. Here, not one character can fully relate to another. That's the big clash. Like leaves in the wind they change one moment to one side, the next to the other.

This episode, however, made it clear that Rush isn't necessarily the bad guy, trying to manipulate, to humiliate. He actually is capable of engaging in relationships, and he has a moral codex as good as it can be. He doesn't show it to others, unless they make the effort to get to know him. And none of the people aboard ever did even try. And they won't. They are much too much preoccupied with their own little games and worries. Too bad, that no-one realizes how easy it would be to make Rush the nicest and probably most forthcoming guy on the ship.

jelgate
May 11th, 2010, 11:02 AM
those people are called drug addicts and they get it from the streets. i think its very rare for a nurse to end up with AIDS unless shes not too good at what she does. nonetheless im not disputing the possiblity since virtually anyone could get it (its called bad luck), im more concerned about why the writers chose that disease in particular.
You'd be wrong. Lab accidents happen all the time

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 11:20 AM
You'd be wrong. Lab accidents happen all the time

I concur...and nurses aren't always "shes" either.

Duneknight
May 11th, 2010, 11:22 AM
...and nurses aren't always "shes" either.

not in my dreams

LtColCarter
May 11th, 2010, 11:23 AM
not in my dreams

Lets not go there... ;)

Pharaoh Atem
May 11th, 2010, 11:27 AM
i really hope james emo story is almost over.

GateroomGuard
May 11th, 2010, 11:40 AM
i really hope james emo story is almost over.

I sort of see it as Spencer was the failure of the crew to see the psychological stress that comes with being on Destiny while James will be their success at dealing with it.