PDA

View Full Version : sam/jack direction



whitewizard
May 15th, 2004, 10:36 AM
how do you all think hte direction of hte sam/jack relationship will go in season 8, do you think they will make there feelings towards eachother be known even more or will pete get in there way, and wot do you think sam's reaction wil be when she see's jack better after what after happened at the end on the lost city?

will they get together this season or will they never be together and IF stargate ends this season will same eventually end up with jack or will see go with someone else like pete.

PLEASE LET THERE BE A SEASON 9

the_fours
May 15th, 2004, 01:06 PM
id like to see the friendship and support they all get in the series like in death knell, but i think its best for all of them to remain as friends. i dont mind subtle ship and i hope the ptb lock on to this way of thinkin and if they have to follow the ship through they keep it in the subtext.

Also i feel that this thread should not just focus on ship/anti-ship views there are plenty of threads for that elsewhare but just deal with the specific question.

bcmilco
May 15th, 2004, 02:26 PM
how do you all think hte direction of hte sam/jack relationship will go in season 8, do you think they will make there feelings towards eachother be known even more or will pete get in there way, and wot do you think sam's reaction wil be when she see's jack better after what after happened at the end on the lost city?

will they get together this season or will they never be together and IF stargate ends this season will same eventually end up with jack or will see go with someone else like pete.

PLEASE LET THERE BE A SEASON 9


I wont speculate on any specific episode too much. However, I think what they'll probably do is keep S/J low on the back burner after New Order around mid-season I'm guessing they have a few scenes here and there showing that their friendship is still just as strong as it ever was albeit a little uncomfortable in some subjects (Pete).

Then around the 15th/17th episode I'd guess that Sam will finally decide that while Pete maybe a nice guy he's just not the guy that she's looking for.

And around the 18th/19th she'll figure it all out and end up with Jack :D in time for a nice big TEAM episode to close out the season/series.

Of course I'll probably be completely off, but with the spoilers/hints we're getting, so far, that seems to fit.

As for a season 9 I'll wait and see what happens with s8 before I get too excited about it :p

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2004, 03:02 PM
I think that ship is only going to get more and more blatant. Pete will be an obstacle for a while (because that's the sole purpose of his existence), but eventually he's going to get trampled into the ground so that Sam and Jack can be together.

Whether or not Sam and Jack actually wind up permanently together at the end of the season depends on whether or not the show gets renewed. If it does, then they'll have to back off a bit so they can draw it out for another long tedious season. If S8 IS the last season, then they'll wind up together, because that's what TPTB want. Nevermind if it screws up the story, nevermind if it aggravates any fans or turns the characters into masticated oatmeal, come hell or high water and d*mn the world, Sam and Jack WILL be together.

I find it very depressing.

the_fours
May 15th, 2004, 03:06 PM
I find it very depressing.

hell, life gets depressing, get used to it

im thinkin like you it could get worse, stay the same or tptb could see the light and bring it back from the edge

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2004, 03:11 PM
hell, life gets depressing, get used to it

Hmph! Bite me. :P



im thinkin like you it could get worse, stay the same or tptb could see the light and bring it back from the edge

I think it's too late for that. Ship has gotten TOO blatant. Even if they cut it off cold turkey it will all still play as heavily shippy. Every look, every comment, every casual touch, no matter how innocent is forever doomed to be tainted with ship. :P

the_fours
May 15th, 2004, 03:13 PM
Hmph! Bite me. :P

ok life might not always be depressing



I think it's too late for that. Ship has gotten TOO blatant. Even if they cut it off cold turkey it will all still play as heavily shippy. Every look, every comment, every casual touch, no matter how innocent is forever doomed to be tainted with ship. :P

maybe so but they could at least make a CREATIVE effort to fix their mistakes

bcmilco
May 15th, 2004, 03:19 PM
nevermind if it aggravates any fans

um, find me a show where none of the fans are aggravated :p

the_fours
May 15th, 2004, 03:22 PM
um, find me a show where none of the fans are aggravated :p


Red Dwarf, its too funny to get agrovated with

majorsal
May 15th, 2004, 03:30 PM
Nevermind if it screws up the story, nevermind if it aggravates any fans or turns the characters into masticated oatmeal, come hell or high water and d*mn the world, Sam and Jack WILL be together.

I find it very depressing.

That's how I feel about this whole Chimera/PS issue. Like Sam and Jack didn't have enough obstacles to contend with in keeping them apart, the writers throw in a boyfriend too? And the boyfriend only emphasizes what the shippers are missing with Sam and Jack romance. It's like a slap in the face. I can't empathise with the reasons behind your depression, but I 'do' empathise with your feelings. Such glee.

Sally :(

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2004, 03:46 PM
That's how I feel about this whole Chimera/PS issue. Like Sam and Jack didn't have enough obstacles to contend with in keeping them apart, the writers throw in a boyfriend too? And the boyfriend only emphasizes what the shippers are missing with Sam and Jack romance.

Much as I love Pete, I almost wish they hadn't introduced him. If he were allowed to develop and be his own character, if he were truly and without question a likeably guy and if he actually stood a chance to actually end up with Sam, that'd be one thing. But it's obvious- to me, at least- that his sole purpose in existing is to be an obstacle. Like you said, there's enough in the way already, why add more? It's almost spiteful and it isn't fair to the characters- any of them- OR the fans. The relationship isn't going to go anywhere. We all KNOW that. The writing staff is rotten with shippers, if you'll forgive me the terminology. They're using Pete, and not in a very nice way. Sam and Jack are doomed- I mean, destined to be together, and while I personally find them repulsive as a couple, I'd rather not see any unnecessary obstacles get in the way. The scheming of TPTB is bad enough without it.

bcmilco
May 15th, 2004, 03:48 PM
Red Dwarf, its too funny to get agrovated with

Ha, see you could only come up with one! And it's one I've never heard of (not that that means much ;))

Point was there really aren't many, if any, :p shows were all the fans are happy all the time. :p

If they worried about not aggrivating any fans they'd never write anything... which I'm sure some of you wouldn't mind :p but there are a lot of people who would mind :D :p

the_fours
May 15th, 2004, 03:50 PM
it is unfortunate, that he has been portrayed as an obsticle (i see where you are coming from) he was supposed to be a good guy, but its hard to see him in that perspective, because he is being portrayed as an obsticle

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2004, 03:56 PM
he was supposed to be a good guy, but its hard to see him in that perspective, because he is being portrayed as an obsticle

He's supposed to be a nice guy, but they've manipulated it carefully so that he isn't so nice and all of their comments about him are less than positive. All those "stalker" comments and the "cloying boyfriend" bit. If Pete was REALLY supposed to be a possible match for Sam, they'd be a lot more supportive.

the_fours
May 15th, 2004, 03:58 PM
He's supposed to be a nice guy, but they've manipulated it carefully so that he isn't so nice and all of their comments about him are less than positive. All those "stalker" comments and the "cloying boyfriend" bit. If Pete was REALLY supposed to be a possible match for Sam, they'd be a lot more supportive.

it unfortunatelly seem to becoming obvious he is being set up as 'the fall guy'

bcmilco
May 15th, 2004, 04:20 PM
it unfortunatelly seem to becoming obvious he is being set up as 'the fall guy'

I wouldn't say 'fall guy' just 'not the guy'

jafacakes
May 15th, 2004, 05:41 PM
I think it's too late for that. Ship has gotten TOO blatant. Even if they cut it off cold turkey it will all still play as heavily shippy. Every look, every comment, every casual touch, no matter how innocent is forever doomed to be tainted with ship. :P[/QUOTE]



It's funny you say that because I didn,t see it. I only started watching Stargate during S7 and without knowing any of the back story I only saw a strong friendship between S/J. In fact I thought Daniel/Sam might have "ship" potential like when Sam convinces Daniel to come back with them in the first episode with a beautifull speech or D playfull comments to S in space race.
Even now having watched some S5 and S6 episodes I find it difificult seing shipiness in many of the examples given in threads and if push comes to shove I see more of a J interest in S than vice-versa if at all. So I wonder if the impression of ship is due to comments by TPTB and not what is really protrayed on screen. It is obvious that ship, anti-ship , what-pairing ship is what drives most of the discussions in the boards and therefor keeps people's interest up.

ShadowMaat
May 15th, 2004, 05:43 PM
It's funny you say that because I didn,t see it.

Then consider yourself very lucky. ;) I guess at least part of my problem has been hanging out online. All that constant exposure to shippers has rubbed off on me. :P Fortunately, it hasn't been enough to infect and corrupt me. ;)

SaberBlade
May 15th, 2004, 09:56 PM
for me that ship sailed long ago and shortly after hit an iceburg and sunk to the bottom of the ocean with thors ship .

from season 1 we have known that there has been a good chance they could get together (with the AU eps showing us that it can go all the way to marriage) but nothing has been done. the writers have had their chance to do something between them with several episodes showing us that it may happen soon (like Upgrades, Divide and Conquer, Window Of Opportunity, Entity, Frozen and Paradise Lost) yet time after time nothing happened and i have gotten tired with it.

i always had my doubts that it wouldn't happen. in the original timeline (2010) they didn't get together even after the SGC was closed so i am glad they moved on and introduced pete. all that is needed is someone for Jack

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 05:18 AM
so i am glad they moved on and introduced pete. all that is needed is someone for Jack

i think its clear to everyone pete has been portrayed as an obsticle. no matter how unfortunate it is

keshou
May 16th, 2004, 06:35 AM
However, I think what they'll probably do is keep S/J low on the back burner after New Order around mid-season I'm guessing they have a few scenes here and there showing that their friendship is still just as strong as it ever was albeit a little uncomfortable in some subjects (Pete).

Then around the 15th/17th episode I'd guess that Sam will finally decide that while Pete maybe a nice guy he's just not the guy that she's looking for.

And around the 18th/19th she'll figure it all out and end up with Jack :D in time for a nice big TEAM episode to close out the season/series. :p
I think your scenario sounds about right. I just read an article with Robert Cooper (in Vancouver Sun) posted on another site:
http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/ipw-web/b2/index.php?p=36&c=1

Here's a bit from the interview:


They’re hoping that the core Stargate audience will be able to transfer the passion to Atlantis. To that end, Anderson’s character, Col. Jack O'Neill, appears in the Atlantis pilot and is “wall to wall” in a couple of episodes.

“We’re going to thin it out with him in the middle of the season, and get back to him toward the end,” says Cooper. In spite of it all, Anderson, who’s made it clear he wants to work less and less these days, is doing so, but, says Cooper, “I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but he seems to be having a great time.”

So RDA is heavy in the beginning, to support SG-1 as a lead-in show to Atlantis. Heavy again at the end. Probably going to be very, very Jack lite in the middle. Maybe only a few scenes per episode, except in the mid-season two-parter. Pete's being kept around for filler, the obstacle.

I think there will a resolution for Sam/Jack at the end, I just don't know if they'll:

*hold it for the final episode.....and make it a subtle, accepting the fishing invitation kind of thing (my preference as a non-shipper!), or

*find a way to give it the full-blown romantic treatment (kissing, bedroom scenes, the works)

x

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 06:52 AM
i am glad they moved on and introduced pete. all that is needed is someone for Jack

I'm glad that you can maintain hope for Pete's character and his chances with Sam. I wish I could feel the same. I love Pete and I love what he does for Sam, but... Oh well. Guess I'm just too cynical to believe, anymore. ;)

They could always bring back Laira for Jack. :P

ses110
May 16th, 2004, 09:13 AM
I never though the Sam and Jack ship was like a soap Opera.I think Sam and Pete and the episode Affinity sound like a soap Opera.Affinity sounds like an episode of Melrose Place.The Spoilers for Season 8 are not encouraging.It sounds like to many Earth and Personal live episodes.IMO I liked it better when we had to wonder what SG-1 did in there personal time.

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 12:51 PM
I just read an article with Robert Cooper (in Vancouver Sun) posted on another site:
http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/ipw-web/b2/index.php?p=36&c=1


Thanks for the link. :)



I think there will a resolution for Sam/Jack at the end, I just don't know if they'll:

*hold it for the final episode.....and make it a subtle, accepting the fishing invitation kind of thing (my preference as a non-shipper!), or

*find a way to give it the full-blown romantic treatment (kissing, bedroom scenes, the works)

Currently I fall in the middle, I don't need a bedroom scene, but I would like 1 non-AU, non-alien-induced kiss. (And yes I know all the antis out there are cringing, but that's what I'd like.)

I used to just want a fishing intive, but IMO they upped the ante with the love scenes in Chimera. We now know that they are capable of writing love scenes and that they are willing to write them. Which makes the fishing invite seem like a very small token for how they are supposed to feel, and I've noticed a lot of shippers feel very similarly.

Granted I'll be satisfied as long as they get together in the end, but it would make me happy if I got to see at least an honest to God, real-to-this-life-and-universe kiss. :D

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 01:57 PM
I got to see at least an honest to God, real-to-this-life-and-universe kiss. :D

well theres the broca divide, window of opportunity and Grace, three kiss scenes between them is quite enough thankyou, dont need another one

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 02:00 PM
well theres the broca divide, window of opportunity and Grace, three kiss scenes between them is quite enough thankyou, dont need another one

That's why I said it was MY opinion, and those three don't fall into my catigory which I listed as non-AU, non-alien(virus)-induced,and real. :p

Catysg1
May 16th, 2004, 02:10 PM
well theres the broca divide, window of opportunity and Grace, three kiss scenes between them is quite enough thankyou, dont need another one



Well.....In la broca Divide Sam was not herself....(Neanderthal syndrome :rolleyes: )..In window of opportunity ...she was not even aware of the kiss.. :rolleyes: (Loop effect)...and in grace , it was a dream or vision . :rolleyes: .call it what you like but it never really happened between them .


Therefore for the end (episode 18), A real kiss in full daylight by the lake after having gone fishing and fallen into the lake, should be well deserved and fully appreciated by ME :D ....does not have to be longer than 2 or 3 minutes (not the kiss..the scene I mean :cool: )...Oh also I want to see Sam 's bike nearby....and she should be wearing a black leather outfit prior to the deep in the lake :p




Caty :D ;) :) :p

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:14 PM
after having gone fishing and fallen into the lake,


at which point she thinks shes kissing him, but it turns out to be a haddock :D

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:15 PM
also those kisses may have been alien-endured or wot not, but they made me kringe. i dread to think of the kringe effect if it was not hulucinogentic or alien enduced

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 02:18 PM
also those kisses may have been alien-endured or wot not, but they made me kringe. i dread to think of the kringe effect if it was not hulucinogentic or alien enduced

That's fine you can cringe and I'll smile and enjoy :D :p

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:20 PM
That's fine you can cringe and I'll smile and enjoy :D :p

laughing at another man suffering unspeakable agony, your worse than the goa'uld :D

Catysg1
May 16th, 2004, 02:25 PM
at which point she thinks shes kissing him, but it turns out to be a haddock :D



HAHAHAHAHAHAH :D Good one but I think she'll make a difference between slimy and tasty :p and sure Jack's lips really won't taste like a slimy Haddock.
Anyway I thought they were hardly any fish in that lake so the chance of that happening is minimal :p

On the other hand , if they were going fishing together , the chance of the tasty kiss happening is pretty high :p


Caty :) ;) :p :D

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 02:27 PM
laughing at another man suffering unspeakable agony, your worse than the goa'uld :D

Okay, where did you get I'd be laughing AT you? First I didn't say I'd be laughing at all, I said I'd be smiling. Second I'll be too busy enjoying any romantic scenes between Jack and Sam to give you a thought. And third :p.

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:36 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAH :D Good one but I think she'll make a difference between slimy and tasty :p and sure Jack's lips really won't taste like a slimy Haddock.
Anyway I thought they were hardly any fish in that lake so the chance of that happening is minimal :p

On the other hand , if they were going fishing together , the chance of the tasty kiss happening is pretty high :p


Caty :) ;) :p :D

Firstly, i thankyou i cherish my sence of humour, secondly he could kiss like a wet fish, also there may end up being fish in that lake (perhaps a gift from Thor :D ) although i dont like the idea i believe you are right about the last point

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:38 PM
I'll be too busy enjoying any romantic scenes between Jack and Sam to give you a thought. And third :p.

and if it happens i may be planning your downfall (no offence, but i will need a scapegoat :p )

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 02:41 PM
and if it happens i may be planning your downfall (no offence, but i will need a scapegoat :p )

If you need an help, I'm very good at plotting unspeakably evil things, and I usually get away with 'em, too... http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/scorchio/sevil.gif

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:43 PM
If you need an help, I'm very good at plotting unspeakably evil things, and I usually get away with 'em, too... http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/scorchio/sevil.gif


Thanks. i may have to take you up on that offer

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Thanks. i may have to take you up on that offer

You don't scare me! :p

And it doesn't change the fact that I'll still be enjoying it. :p

Yes I'll enjoy every minute of it. ENJOY ENJOY ENJOY :p :p :p

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 02:49 PM
You don't scare me! :p

And it doesn't change the fact that I'll still be enjoying it. :p

Yes I'll enjoy every minute of it. ENJOY ENJOY ENJOY :p :p :p

not if me and shadow get your computer, tv and vcr. Then you wont be able to enjoy it

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 02:56 PM
not if me and shadow get your computer, tv and vcr. Then you wont be able to enjoy it

First which computer are you going to steal, becasue I have 10-and-a-half. :p

Second if any of my equipment goes missing I'll know who to send the cops after.

And third I find it very distressing that you would want to wreck other peoples enjoyment of a show just because you don't enjoy it. :S

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 03:03 PM
First which computer are you going to steal, becasue I have 10-and-a-half. :p

Firstly, whats the half? :S


Second if any of my equipment goes missing I'll know who to send the cops after.

they got a few thousand miles to catch me


And third I find it very distressing that you would want to wreck other peoples enjoyment of a show just because you don't enjoy it. :S

i told you youd be the scapegoat (i mean all of what i said in jest, i am greatful though that you are taking me seriously, very few people ever do and if they do its usually for the wrong reasons :( )

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 03:06 PM
First which computer are you going to steal, becasue I have 10-and-a-half.

I placed a hex on someone who is now lucky if he can stay online for more than ten minutes at a time without his connection crashing. I'm sure I could work out something for you, as well. :)



Second if any of my equipment goes missing I'll know who to send the cops after.

Stealing? Please, that's so last century! ;) I have much more effective methods... You'll never see it coming... :D


And third I find it very distressing that you would want to wreck other peoples enjoyment of a show just because you don't enjoy it. :S

Moi?? Wreck your enjoyment?? I would never do such a base and brutal thing. Not when there are much more... interesting alternatives. ;)

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Firstly, whats the half? :S

Motherboard, memory, harddrive, cdrom. No processor, no case.


they got a few thousand miles to catch me

Ever heard of extradition laws? :p



i told you youd be the scapegoat (i mean all of what i said in jest, i am greatful though that you are taking me seriously, very few people ever do and if they do its usually for the wrong reasons :( )

And I'm telling you the only goats around here keep the firebreaks clean. :p

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 03:19 PM
Motherboard, memory, harddrive, cdrom. No processor, no case.

well i would have thought that getting the case would be the first priority. If not just getting it all at the same time




Ever heard of extradition laws? :p

yes, but i doubt that includes minor and justified infractions




And I'm telling you the only goats around here keep the firebreaks clean. :p


cant come up with a witty retaught until i know what the hell a firebeak is?

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 03:20 PM
I placed a hex on someone who is now lucky if he can stay online for more than ten minutes at a time without his connection crashing. I'm sure I could work out something for you, as well. :)

I'm sorry but I don't run Microsoft prodoucts on my PCs, so it'll be a little hard for you to do that. :p

Besides I practice Safe Hex. :p


Stealing? Please, that's so last century! ;) I have much more effective methods... You'll never see it coming... :D

Bring it on shadowboy :p
:D


Moi?? Wreck your enjoyment?? I would never do such a base and brutal thing. Not when there are much more... interesting alternatives. ;)

You just try it... and I'll have my lawyer contact your lawyer :p

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 03:27 PM
I'm sorry but I don't run Microsoft prodoucts on my PCs

Neither does he. :P



Bring it on shadowboy :p

David?? Is that you?? :P



You just try it... and I'll have my lawyer contact your lawyer :p

You seem to think I'd be doing something illegal... or that I'd be silly enough to leave evidence. Tsk tsk tsk. You will prove nothing! :P

And Sam/Jack ship is doomed to be ruined by TPTB ham-handed writing tactics. :P

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 03:28 PM
well i would have thought that getting the case would be the first priority. If not just getting it all at the same time

Nah, it's cheaper this way. :p besides most of the parts are left overs from upgrades to other computers.


yes, but i doubt that includes minor and justified infractions

I'm sure I can pin something else on you... :p


cant come up with a witty retaught until i know what the hell a firebeak is?

A fire break is a break in the trees usually following along some dirt road. It helps to prevent the spread of forst fires by creating a zone where the fire has dificulty getting beyond. They use goats to keep the undergrowth down thus eliminating a fires potential fuel.

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 03:34 PM
You seem to think I'd be doing something illegal... or that I'd be silly enough to leave evidence. Tsk tsk tsk. You will prove nothing! :P

Haven't you ever seen CSI? It doesn't matter how good you are they always find evidence :p


And Sam/Jack ship is doomed to be ruined by TPTB ham-handed writing tactics. :P

Well the whole Pete thing has already tainted it IMO, so you may be right :rolleyes:

But I'd still like to see a(nother) kiss before the show has ended! :p And I'll enjoy it for all those people who wont. :D

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 03:34 PM
Nah, it's cheaper this way. :p besides most of the parts are left overs from upgrades to other computers.

makes sence to salvage what you can im trying to do the same with s/j ship but theres nothing to salvage from it unfortunatly




I'm sure I can pin something else on you... :p

i dobt it sparky im a pussycat, id never hurt a fly





A fire break is a break in the trees usually following along some dirt road. It helps to prevent the spread of forst fires by creating a zone where the fire has dificulty getting beyond. They use goats to keep the undergrowth down thus eliminating a fires potential fuel.

well i guess thats where your house is then like i said your the scapegoat, chew on the grass bud :p

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 03:41 PM
makes sence to salvage what you can im trying to do the same with s/j ship but theres nothing to salvage from it unfortunatly

I don't see it as salvaging, keeping the old, while improving what I have currently. :p


i dobt it sparky im a pussycat, id never hurt a fly

Oh, you'd be surprised what I can do :D


well i guess thats where your house is then like i said your the scapegoat, chew on the grass bud :p

Actually I'm down the hill from the firebreaks around here, but I'll pass your sentements along to the goats, the more they eat the safer I'll be :D

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 03:47 PM
I don't see it as salvaging, keeping the old, while improving what I have currently. :p

well then i guess your upgrading then each time. why ten computers. that baffles me





Oh, you'd be surprised what I can do :D

well i could try and set you up first, on the other hand i got a lot of people who owe me a favor here and there, yourl never pin anything on me sparky





Actually I'm down the hill from the firebreaks around here, but I'll pass your sentements along to the goats, the more they eat the safer I'll be :D

oh thanks for the tip. so all we need to do is grab the goats and take them somewhere else :p or maybe just sprinkle a bit of miricle grow around they couldnt keep up with that :rolleyes:

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 03:51 PM
so all we need to do is grab the goats and take them somewhere else :p

Goats make very good sacrificial offerings to the gods...

I'm just saying... ;)

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 03:53 PM
Goats make very good sacrificial offerings to the gods...

I'm just saying... ;)

perhaps a god of fire.....do you know of any?

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 04:01 PM
perhaps a god of fire.....do you know of any?

I know several. ;) Er... I mean, I know OF several...

the_fours
May 16th, 2004, 04:05 PM
I know several. ;) Er... I mean, I know OF several...

great il bring the lanterns you catch the goat :p

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 04:29 PM
great il bring the lanterns you catch the goat :p

Is this where I run around yelling "Baa ram ewe!" ;) Probably doesn't work on goats... they're far too stubborn. Good thing I'm stubborner. :P

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 05:57 PM
why ten computers. that baffles me

Some of them are special in that they aren't IBM PC or compatable, I have an SGI MIPS based computer which has a RISC processor, I have a Sun SPARC workstation with a an UltraSPARC processor, and I have an old HP with an Alpha processor.

I have several older computers with old 486/Pentium processors, I have a couple of old multi-processor machine, Then there are the newer computers a PII, a AMD Duron, and my main computer an AthonXP.

Basically I use them for trying different types of software and Operating Systems, and turning them into something useful (usually I use Linux ;)), one is a Linux firewall, I've setup webservers and DNS servers, mailservers, I could go on... :D

It's a hobby and it's a passion.



well i could try and set you up first, on the other hand i got a lot of people who owe me a favor here and there, yourl never pin anything on me sparky

It's too bad computers are so easy to minipulate... and dont you know computers never lie ;) :D



oh thanks for the tip. so all we need to do is grab the goats and take them somewhere else :p or maybe just sprinkle a bit of miricle grow around they couldnt keep up with that :rolleyes:

Whatever, You'll be getting any bills from the 50,000+ residents in the area. ;)

Back on topic (yes I can do that :p): I still say that Sam and Jack will end up together by the end of the series, and I still say that I'll be happy and I'll still enjoy it even if you dont. :p

the_fours
May 17th, 2004, 02:47 AM
Some of them are special in that they aren't IBM PC or compatable, I have an SGI MIPS based computer which has a RISC processor, I have a Sun SPARC workstation with a an UltraSPARC processor, and I have an old HP with an Alpha processor.
I have several older computers with old 486/Pentium processors, I have a couple of old multi-processor machine, Then there are the newer computers a PII, a AMD Duron, and my main computer an AthonXP.
Basically I use them for trying different types of software and Operating Systems, and turning them into something useful (usually I use Linux ;)), one is a Linux firewall, I've setup webservers and DNS servers, mailservers, I could go on... :D

It's a hobby and it's a passion.

ah you reming me of a friend who has the same passion, dont see him out that much shame really



It's too bad computers are so easy to minipulate... and dont you know computers never lie ;) :D


well in order to do that you need my ip address first, it changes randomly so youl have trouble finding your way in



Whatever, You'll be getting any bills from the 50,000+ residents in the area. ;)

na, thats easy to solve we will just strategically spread the goats around everyone elses houses



Back on topic (yes I can do that :p): I still say that Sam and Jack will end up together by the end of the series, and I still say that I'll be happy and I'll still enjoy it even if you dont. :p

i bloody hope your wrong about this, you better hope so to i warned you that you would be the scapegoat

Madeleine
May 17th, 2004, 04:46 AM
I'd have moderated you all for being off-topic, but I've read this page three times and still haven't a clue what any of you are on about :P .

I probably need a nap.

ShadowMaat
May 17th, 2004, 06:07 AM
I'd have moderated you all for being off-topic, but I've read this page three times and still haven't a clue what any of you are on about :P .

We're sacrificing BCM's goats to Svarog (or Nusku, or Agni, or Shafan, or likely one goat to each of them) so he'll/they'll come along and smite ship in its steps, thus saving us from the agony of having to see it onscreen and leaving BCM open to the ravages of an overgrown firebreak. :)

Wasn't that obvious? :D

Madeleine
May 17th, 2004, 06:09 AM
We're sacrificing BCM's goats to Svarog so he'll come along and smite ship in its steps, thus saving us from the agony of having to see it onscreen and leaving BCM open to the ravages of an overgrown firebreak. :)

Wasn't that obvious? :D

Oh. Right.

Well then.

Um....

Are you sacrificing goats TOPICALLY?

nugglebugget
May 17th, 2004, 06:32 AM
I'd have moderated you all for being off-topic, but I've read this page three times and still haven't a clue what any of you are on about :P .

I probably need a nap.
:S Tell me about it:p ! I went directly to the last page of this thread & promptly forgot what the topic was:D . The nearest I can figure there's a fire,somebody brought in goats & a computer but somebody's does "safe-hex"{what's that?Is it when you put a plastic dust cover on the computer? :S ].
Maybe "Luke" was posting an online recipe for "B-B-Q goat".....& things went horribly wrong.......*shrugs*


Thanks for the giggle y'all:D !

the_fours
May 17th, 2004, 06:34 AM
Oh. Right.

Well then.

Um....

Are you sacrificing goats TOPICALLY?

yes it is on topic, we dont want ship, we need an excuse if it is there BCM is it :p

we have our ways and they will serve our purpose. :D

sgeureka
May 17th, 2004, 06:45 AM
The relationship isn't going to go anywhere. We all KNOW that. The writing staff is rotten with shippers, if you'll forgive me the terminology. They're using Pete, and not in a very nice way. Sam and Jack are doomed- I mean, destined to be together, and while I personally find them repulsive as a couple, I'd rather not see any unnecessary obstacles get in the way. The scheming of TPTB is bad enough without it.
The Goa'ulds aren't going to go anywhere. We all KNOW that. The writing staff is rotten with humans, if you'll forgive me the terminology. They're using Anubis, and not in a very nice way. SG-1 is doomed- I mean, destined to survive, and while I personally find them repulsive as a team, I'd rather not see any unnecessary obstacles get in the way. The scheming of TPTB is bad enough without it. :) :) :)

No obstacles, no story...

ShadowMaat
May 17th, 2004, 08:12 AM
No obstacles, no story...

It depends on the obstacle and the implementation. Not EVERY obstacle is automatically "good" or "useful" or "right" for the plot. Just as not every "forbidden" relationship is automatically worth exploring. You're trying to compare apples to elephants.

Ship adds nothing to the plot, IMO. Character development, yes, but plot? No. SG-1 going up against Anubis is a plot. It involves actual action (and not "get it on" action) which is central to the overall storyline and which moves the series as a whole forward.

Anyway, I'm getting sick of this argument.

Mdeline, the goats are on topic. We were discussing ship and how it is to be implemented in S8. BCM thinks it should be fully implemented. Fours and I disagree. In order to achieve our goal of a ship-free S8, we are sacrificing BCM's goats to Svarog (who has appeared on the show). If ship DOES happen, we intend to blame BCM for it happening, in which case we'll move up from goats to human sacrifice. Right, fours? ;)

the_fours
May 17th, 2004, 08:19 AM
Mdeline, the goats are on topic. We were discussing ship and how it is to be implemented in S8. BCM thinks it should be fully implemented. Fours and I disagree. In order to achieve our goal of a ship-free S8, we are sacrificing BCM's goats to Svarog (who has appeared on the show). If ship DOES happen, we intend to blame BCM for it happening, in which case we'll move up from goats to human sacrifice. Right, fours? ;)

will it be any human, or are we limiting ourselves to virgins ;)

BCM has no chance against shadow and i, we will prevail :p

ShadowMaat
May 17th, 2004, 08:59 AM
will it be any human, or are we limiting ourselves to virgins ;)

It's so hard to find a good virgin these days. I don't think Svarog would mind a... er... "used" sacrifice. After all, the goats probably aren't virgin, right? Humans shouldn't be that different. ;)


BCM has no chance against shadow and i, we will prevail :p

Viva la resistance! And I'm not talking about the Tok'ra. :P

We shall overcome
We shall all be free
We are not afraid
We are not alone
We shall overcome

So there! :P

The ship will stall, falling from the sky
And Sam will realize that PETE is the guy!

:D

the_fours
May 17th, 2004, 10:12 AM
so well said shadow, oh i so enjoy plotting with you

down with s/j ship

bcmilco
May 17th, 2004, 11:18 AM
BCM thinks [ship] should be fully implemented.

I said that's the way I saw it going from the spoilers. :p But yes I would like to see ship in s8. :D

Webbgirl
May 17th, 2004, 11:24 AM
It's so hard to find a good virgin these days. I don't think Svarog would mind a... er... "used" sacrifice. After all, the goats probably aren't virgin, right? Humans shouldn't be that different. ;)



Viva la resistance! And I'm not talking about the Tok'ra. :P

We shall overcome
We shall all be free
We are not afraid
We are not alone
We shall overcome

So there! :P

The ship will stall, falling from the sky
And Sam will realize that PETE is the guy!

:D

Well there's a catchy little mantra. I kinda like that one.

ShadowMaat
May 17th, 2004, 12:43 PM
Well there's a catchy little mantra. I kinda like that one.

Needs to be tightened a bit.

Ship will fall from the sky
Sam will realize Pete's the guy. :D

Jack will leave behind Terra
Head for life with sweet Laira. :P

Webbgirl
May 17th, 2004, 12:56 PM
Needs to be tightened a bit.

Ship will fall from the sky
Sam will realize Pete's the guy. :D

Jack will leave behind Terra
Head for life with sweet Laira. :P

Heehee even better.

sgeureka
May 17th, 2004, 01:56 PM
Ship adds nothing to the plot, IMO. Character development, yes, but plot? No. SG-1 going up against Anubis is a plot. It involves actual action (and not "get it on" action) which is central to the overall storyline and which moves the series as a whole forward.
Do you want Stargate reduced to "We came, saw, and conquered"? Then an episode would last about 10 minutes.

To me, the overall storyline would be "SG-1 deals with a problem, which they only got because they finally want to get rid of the Goa'ulds." and IMO part of the fun is to see *how* they achieve this. By working together. And the problem is that the four of them come from different fields.

- Teal'c doesn't understand Tauri behaviour at all time and has that Jaffa revenge thing going. O'Neill isn't easy with that from time to time.
- Daniel usually tries to discuss his way out of the problem (Pierre Bernard anyone?). O'Neill *obviously* has problems with this more often than not.
- Carter's science stuff is above O'Neill's head. And there seems to be a little attraction (or not but then we wouldn't be discussing it :) ). And again, O'Neill doesn't know how to deal with that.

I don't care whether TPTB decide to get S&J together in the end. It isn't that important to me. I don't even care whether there will be any obvious ship scenes in S8. But let's all get rid of the interpersonal relationships between J/T, J/D and S&J because I don't like it and it doesn't move the series as a whole forward ;) (did I just compare apples to elephants again? ;) )

On a side note: Is there a reason why you always erase the name of the topic in your posts (in this case "Re: sam/jack direction")? You're the only one I see doing that. Just curious.

ShadowMaat
May 17th, 2004, 02:24 PM
Do you want Stargate reduced to "We came, saw, and conquered"? Then an episode would last about 10 minutes.

You have a very black and white interpretation of things. Just because I don't like ship and think it adds nothing to the story doesn't mean I hate ALL signs of emotion or ALL forms of character development or ALL interpersonal relationships. I just hate Sam/Jack and think it's a dead end in all regards.

And to be perfectly honest, it isn't even ALL ship that I hate. I could deal quite nicely with Sam/Pete and I feel that Pete allows us to see a side of Sam that we might otherwise miss... a side that would not be available if she were paired up with Jack. Or Daniel. Or Teal'c. However, I really think this is a subject that would be better off in the ship discussion thread (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=88).



On a side note: Is there a reason why you always erase the name of the topic in your posts (in this case "Re: sam/jack direction")? You're the only one I see doing that. Just curious.

Force of habit? Dunno, it's a more common practice on another board where I hang and I've never really seen the point of it. I mean, I KNOW what thread I'm in, so I know what the replies are going to be about and half the time the replies aren't in direct reference to the thread title anyway... but if you're reading along, you can figure it out. Now, if the reply line actually included the name of the person whose post you're replying to I think it'd make it a hell of a lot easier, because while it's easy to follow general conversations, some things seem to come out of left field, or they're ambiguous enough that you can't tell who it is specifically addressed to- if it's meant to be specific at all.

Then again, I don't read the threaded view. If my voiding the subject lines screws things up for folks who prefer the forums threaded, I might consider leaving the line alone, but otherwise, I'm going with habit. ;)

Webbgirl
May 17th, 2004, 02:31 PM
I don't care whether TPTB decide to get S&J together in the end. It isn't that important to me. I don't even care whether there will be any obvious ship scenes in S8. But let's all get rid of the interpersonal relationships between J/T, J/D and S&J because I don't like it and it doesn't move the series as a whole forward ;) (did I just compare apples to elephants again? ;) )


What's wrong with actual story telling and plot development? Other shows seem to be able to do it without sex or sexual tension involved. How about showing some interpersonal development (of the non-romantic kind) between all of the team members? How about actually going through the big round metal thing that they keep in the basement? There used to be mythology related stories, apparently TPTB lost their copy of Bullfinch's Mythology after season 3.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not asking that Jack never speak to Sam again (although it's tempting). I would just like to see episodes on a consistent basis where I'm not bombarded with 'subtext' (and I use sub- loosely in this case) about Sam wanting to jump her bosses bones.

the_fours
May 18th, 2004, 04:23 AM
Needs to be tightened a bit.

Ship will fall from the sky
Sam will realize Pete's the guy. :D

Jack will leave behind Terra
Head for life with sweet Laira. :P

ship will fall with shadow
ship will fall with fours
BCM will fall with ship
and we will be on coarse. :p

hopfully in s8. (shame it doesnt quite rym at the end i couldnt think :S )

Otis
May 22nd, 2004, 06:20 PM
I like the undercurrent of ship. Notice the word undercurrent. Fans read into the scenes what they like. In many of the threads I read, they see things that I don't remotely see in glances or whatever. Maybe TPTB will bring back Narim and give us an answer to the Tollan question. Perhaps Narim and Pete could fight, saberswords drawn. Jack, of course, could sit in his office and just read the report. Then the show could end with a big sigh......

UsedToLikeSam
May 24th, 2004, 01:04 AM
// Even now having watched some S5 and S6 episodes I find it difificult seing shipiness...[sic] // (Forgot who said that. It was early on in the thread when people were on topic.)

You have to watch seasons one through four to see the S & J "ship". It's very obvious from the moment they first meet.

Someone else posted a possible scenario whereby Sam would finally realize around episode 17 or 18 that Pete wasn't the guy for her...

I will be SO GONE so long before that if Pete hangs around. I've read that he will appear as late as the eighth episode, and even THAT is having him around way too long. I was hoping they'd get rid of him in one of the first couple episodes of season 8. His presence in the show has ruined for me my favorite character and my favorite relationship. He has also ruined my confidence in the writers and producers.

Madeleine
May 24th, 2004, 04:11 AM
<<[S/J ship is] very obvious from the moment they first meet.>>

Except that it isn't ;)

Some see it, some don't. For me it seemed 'very obvious' during the early seasons that Stargate was not going down the hackneyed (JMO) route of Leading Lady Needs To Hook Up With Leading Man, and 'very obvious' that Sam and Jack were close colleagues who worked well together, but had no sexual chemistry and were not the least bit romantically compatible.

Having met a good number of Shippers, after coming online, I've had to admit that what I always saw not necessarily obvious at all... but that doesn't make me wrong, and it doesn't make S/J ship during the early seasons 'obvious' either. It's just a case of what individuals see.

the_fours
May 28th, 2004, 06:34 AM
His presence in the show has ruined for me my favorite character and my favorite relationship. He has also ruined my confidence in the writers and producers.

no pete didnt ruin sams character her wishy washy crushe over her supervisor did.

down with s/j ship ;)

ShadowMaat
May 28th, 2004, 06:46 AM
down with s/j ship ;)
Rah! Rah! Rah! :D

Although if you want to get technical, regardless of what your gripe is, the REAL blame is almost certainly on TPTB, since they're the ones who are writing all this stuff people are finding objectionable.

Gotta agree, though, for me, Sam's crush on Jack is pathetic. And the fact that she continues to moop about him when she's supposed to be dating Pete (and it's supposed to be getting serious) makes her look even worse. I don't expect her to cut off ALL her feelings for Jack instantaneously, but the level of emotion she continues to show is frankly embarrassing. My opinion.

BeerGirl
June 3rd, 2004, 03:47 PM
If season 8 starts being overtly J/S ship, I'll be gone long before a season 9

meimei
June 3rd, 2004, 04:15 PM
I am a romantic at heart but I love action, adventure and sci-fi. I love it all mixed together. I like the little ship that's there. Sometimes my romantic nature takes over and I wish there were more. I don't see it as overt as some on here feel. But I also like that it has been kept at bay due to frat regs. I am ex-military and was married to another non-com in my unit. I know the way the military works around this. Transfer. We ended up getting out after his transfer put him on another continent! I like the fact that, where it can considering it is sci-fi, TPTB stick to the military regs.I can't see Stargate without both Sam and Jack. I can't see Sam giving up a promising military career for marriage. (Wish I'd been half that smart! Hubby is now in "ex" category) I also can't see Jack retiring to play house husband while Sam heads out the gate. I don't see a shippily ever after resolution for the end of the series if there is to be a followup movie. So I get my ship in fanfic and look forward to seeing season 8.

Otis
June 5th, 2004, 05:14 PM
I don't mind the ship. I rather like it. What I really detest is the "I can no longer make a decision, geez I'm helpless" Sam./ They move her from wonder woman to minnie mouse!

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 06:05 PM
They move her from wonder woman to minnie mouse!
Even Minnie Mouse was capable of standing on her own. Not so, Sam. At least, not anymore.

Shipperahoy
June 5th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Ya know, come to think of it...I'm fairly certain that Minnie Mouse wore the pants in that relationship. :D She had poor Mickey wrapped around her little finger.

As for the Jack/Sam relationship I don't see Sam as helpless or dependant I see her as conflicted. But I still think she can hold her own. What I don't like is the Pete thing. He's written merely as a plot device and nothing else and I just don't think that love triangles have a place on Stargate. I think that if they plan on getting Jack and Sam together in the end than Pete needs to go. Then they can just have the subtle ust again since there's absolutely no way, that I can see, that they could get them together until the end of the series. Unless one of them retires which I think would be a bad idea before the very end.

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 06:20 PM
What I don't like is the Pete thing. He's written merely as a plot device and nothing else and I just don't think that love triangles have a place on Stargate.
I love Pete even though he IS nothing but a plot device. I think I love him out of sheer spite- spite directed at TPTB who apparently see fit to make Pete nothing but a shallow "cloying boyfriend" of a plot device. Curs'd be their names for doing something so appalling to a character who could be a whole extra dimension in the show and who could offer us a whole new insight into Sam. And curse them for having Pete fall so completely in love with a woman who will NEVER love him in return, who is- as TPTB have made her- incapable of loving anyone but Jack. That's just plain hurtful and I don't care if "it's just fiction". Only my opinion, I suppose, but the whole thing truly galls me.





But I still think she can hold her own.
She certainly USED to be able to hold her own. Whether or not she still can is up to the writers. :P And individual interpretation. ;)

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 06:24 PM
I love Pete even though he IS nothing but a plot device. I think I love him out of sheer spite- spite directed at TPTB who apparently see fit to make Pete nothing but a shallow "cloying boyfriend" of a plot device. Curs'd be their names for doing something so appalling to a character who could be a whole extra dimension in the show and who could offer us a whole new insight into Sam. And curse them for having Pete fall so completely in love with a woman who will NEVER love him in return, who is- as TPTB have made her- incapable of loving anyone but Jack. That's just plain hurtful and I don't care if "it's just fiction". Only my opinion, I suppose, but the whole thing truly galls me.





She certainly USED to be able to hold her own. Whether or not she still can is up to the writers. :P And individual interpretation. ;)Although your absolutely right about 'its up to the writers', your way too technical about the situation of her character. But i still put tense on the part i agree, 'its up to the writers' part. Anyways, Sam does seem comfy and looks great with Pete :), it doesn't seem like she can't love no one except Jack, well thats what i saw in Chimera :)

Shipperahoy
June 5th, 2004, 06:24 PM
She certainly USED to be able to hold her own. Whether or not she still can is up to the writers. :P And individual interpretation. ;)

Whatever. Individual interpretation? Pffft. I'm right, you're wrong and if you don't think so then you're clearly deluded. :p

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 06:34 PM
Whatever. Individual interpretation? Pffft. I'm right, you're wrong and if you don't think so then you're clearly deluded. :p
Looks like being a non-corporeal glowy octopus has scrambled the atoms in your brain. Poor thing. I pity you. :P




it doesn't seem like she can't love no one except Jack, well thats what i saw in Chimera
Let me rephrase, then. In my opinion, the writers will not allow her to love anyone except Jack. Joe Mallozzi has called Pete a "cloying boyfriend" which implies- to me- that he doesn't take the character very seriously. A couple of the other PTB cracked jokes about Pete "stalking" Sam in the audio commentary for Chimera. That implies- to me- that they don't take Pete very seriously, either. If THEY don't take him seriously, how can Sam?

And speaking of Sam, Amanda Tapping herself said in an interview that (and I'll have to paraphrase here as I no longer have the original text) Pete is a nice dalliance until Sam can hook up with Jack. That again implies- to me- that SHE doesn't take Pete very seriously.

If the writers treat him as a joke and the actress playing Sam treats him as a "temporary distraction" then how can Pete ever be anything other than a plot device? And given that, how can Sam possibly love him?

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 06:43 PM
Looks like being a non-corporeal glowy octopus has scrambled the atoms in your brain. Poor thing. I pity you. :P




Let me rephrase, then. In my opinion, the writers will not allow her to love anyone except Jack. Joe Mallozzi has called Pete a "cloying boyfriend" which implies- to me- that he doesn't take the character very seriously. A couple of the other PTB cracked jokes about Pete "stalking" Sam in the audio commentary for Chimera. That implies- to me- that they don't take Pete very seriously, either. If THEY don't take him seriously, how can Sam?

And speaking of Sam, Amanda Tapping herself said in an interview that (and I'll have to paraphrase here as I no longer have the original text) Pete is a nice dalliance until Sam can hook up with Jack. That again implies- to me- that SHE doesn't take Pete very seriously.

If the writers treat him as a joke and the actress playing Sam treats him as a "temporary distraction" then how can Pete ever be anything other than a plot device? And given that, how can Sam possibly love him?Yah, i have heard those commentaries, but don't the writers and other crew members of SG joke around/don't take serious with alot of things about the show. Also, alot of things change too as well? Don't they, such as the idea of Jonas going to Atlantis, but that didn't happen, and the change about season 6 or 7 being the last season(s).

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Yah, i have heard those commentaries, but don't the writers and other crew members of SG joke around/don't take serious with alot of things about the show. Also, alot of things change too as well? Don't they, such as the idea of Jonas going to Atlantis, but that didn't happen, and the change about season 6 or 7 being the last season(s).
You're just trying to get me to run up my post count. :P

1. Yes, they do joke on the commentaries and in interviews, but with Joe, at least, I got the impression that he was at least half-serious and Amanda certainly seemed to be earnest in her replies regarding Pete.

2. Some things change, some things remain the same. A majority of TPTB are avid Sam/Jack shippers. They've made no secret about that. I doubt very much that they would "allow" Sam to permanently hook up with anyone who wasn't Jack. 2001 was, IMO, just another attempt to "scare" shippers into thinking that Sam and Jack might not end up together. Joe Faxon was another example of a plot device, one TPTB used again in 2010 as yet more fan torment. At least Joe had a reason to exist in 2010, however temporarily, but once he outlived his usefulness as a plot device, that was the end of him.

3. Jonas NOT getting spun off to Atlantis happened for a variety of reasons, some of which had to do with bad timing, some of which we as fans will never truly know. I don't think the two situations are comparable because TPTB have always (as far as I've been able to tell) fully supported S/J ship, whereas Jonas... well, we haven't seen much of HIM lately, have we? :P Sorry, I know that's personal bias speaking and discussion of Jonas belongs in another thread, but I stand by the "opinion" that TPTB have always and WILL always support S/J ship so therefore Pete can never be seen as a serious potential match for Sam.

Shipperahoy
June 5th, 2004, 07:23 PM
My thing with reading magazine interviews is that people are so often misquoted or the way it's written is not the way it was intended to come across. I've read transcripts of t.v. interviews and thought one thing and then actually saw the interview and it came across completely different. I just don't see AT saying that Pete is o.k. until she can have Jack. I prefer to think that she just meant that, yeah she's had these feelings for Jack, but she can't put her life on hold and here is this really great guy who cares for her and can help her do that. At least I think that's the way she would like to see it. I personally don't think that Pete ,the way he is being written, will help her move on with anything.

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 07:30 PM
You're just trying to get me to run up my post count. :P

1. Yes, they do joke on the commentaries and in interviews, but with Joe, at least, I got the impression that he was at least half-serious and Amanda certainly seemed to be earnest in her replies regarding Pete.

2. Some things change, some things remain the same. A majority of TPTB are avid Sam/Jack shippers. They've made no secret about that. I doubt very much that they would "allow" Sam to permanently hook up with anyone who wasn't Jack. 2001 was, IMO, just another attempt to "scare" shippers into thinking that Sam and Jack might not end up together. Joe Faxon was another example of a plot device, one TPTB used again in 2010 as yet more fan torment. At least Joe had a reason to exist in 2010, however temporarily, but once he outlived his usefulness as a plot device, that was the end of him.

3. Jonas NOT getting spun off to Atlantis happened for a variety of reasons, some of which had to do with bad timing, some of which we as fans will never truly know. I don't think the two situations are comparable because TPTB have always (as far as I've been able to tell) fully supported S/J ship, whereas Jonas... well, we haven't seen much of HIM lately, have we? :P Sorry, I know that's personal bias speaking and discussion of Jonas belongs in another thread, but I stand by the "opinion" that TPTB have always and WILL always support S/J ship so therefore Pete can never be seen as a serious potential match for Sam.Of course i want to bump up your post count, why else would i be here? Haha, juss kidding... Anyways, back to the subject, you said yourself that you are being biased about Jonas and such, but nvm, PERIOD. Anyways, i agree that they have made it no secret that they are big J/S fans, but just because they don't say anything other than being J/S fans, doesn't mean they don't like Sam with someone else, wow, alot of S sounds. But then again, things can change, such as the 'Pete' situation, but i do agree, i doubt he'll stay long enough. Oh look, i'm a Goa'uld Underling, i'm so proud :)

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 08:02 PM
I personally don't think that Pete ,the way he is being written, will help her move on with anything.
Exactly! If we were meant to take Pete seriously, don't you think they'd have done a better job of introducing his character? Or are they incapable of getting ANYTHING right anymore? ;)

I know that one ep isn't really enough to judge by, but that certainly hasn't stopped a lot of people from passing judgement on Pete and I'm sorry, but I just don't get the feeling that TPTB care about Pete as a character. I think that they think he's just a convenient obstacle- some way of holding off the inevitable Sam & Jack Shipper Finale until... well... the finale.

It also bothers me that Sam continues to pine after Jack even though she is supposed to be involved with Pete. Scenes are still being filmed in a way that implies Sam/Jack ship. I know she can't just "shut off" her feelings for Jack, but you'd think she'd be able to act a little more maturely about it and concentrate on the guy she is actually WITH, not the guy that she is supposed to realize isn't for her! At least, if Pete really IS meant to be taken seriously, that is the impression I think TPTB should be trying to convey.

Mild SPOILERS for New Order below:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER: I know that some people are saying that New Order "proves" that Pete isn't just a blip on the radar, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable about the way "Pete" is going to be depicted and I don't think it's a good sign of Things to Come. /SPOILER

Much as I love Pete, I find his usage depressing and I doubt that things will change for the better any time soon.

I was kinda hoping my 1,000th post could buck convention and be all shiny and positive, but I guess it just isn't in my nature to be very happy about things. :(

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:08 PM
Exactly! If we were meant to take Pete seriously, don't you think they'd have done a better job of introducing his character? Or are they incapable of getting ANYTHING right anymore? ;)

I know that one ep isn't really enough to judge by, but that certainly hasn't stopped a lot of people from passing judgement on Pete and I'm sorry, but I just don't get the feeling that TPTB care about Pete as a character. I think that they think he's just a convenient obstacle- some way of holding off the inevitable Sam & Jack Shipper Finale until... well... the finale.

It also bothers me that Sam continues to pine after Jack even though she is supposed to be involved with Pete. Scenes are still being filmed in a way that implies Sam/Jack ship. I know she can't just "shut off" her feelings for Jack, but you'd think she'd be able to act a little more maturely about it and concentrate on the guy she is actually WITH, not the guy that she is supposed to realize isn't for her! At least, if Pete really IS meant to be taken seriously, that is the impression I think TPTB should be trying to convey.

Mild SPOILERS for New Order below:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER: I know that some people are saying that New Order "proves" that Pete isn't just a blip on the radar, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable about the way "Pete" is going to be depicted and I don't think it's a good sign of Things to Come. /SPOILER

Much as I love Pete, I find his usage depressing and I doubt that things will change for the better any time soon.

I was kinda hoping my 1,000th post could buck convention and be all shiny and positive, but I guess it just isn't in my nature to be very happy about things. :(i'm sorry your 1000'th post was 'positive...shiny' :( I did like your reasoning why they aren't serious about Pete/Sam's relationship. I don't understand how Pete's 'usage' in the show is depressing though, i thought he is a good character, who actually is human, who doesn't know of the Stargate (originally), and now knows her secret, and he is comfortable about it (well it seemed that way in the end of Chimera). I have one question as well, about what post # were you able to use that avatar?

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 08:12 PM
I don't understand how Pete's 'usage' in the show is depressing though
It's because I "know" TPTB don't plan to utilize him the way that I feel they should. He's just a temporary roadblock and I don't think they're going to do anything terribly good with his character. The impression I get is that he's just there to keep Sam and Jack apart for "a little while longer" and then he'll be dumped overboard like a sack full of kittens. Kinda like Jonas was, really. :P





I have one question as well, about what post # were you able to use that avatar?
Somwhere in the 800's, I think. I don't actually know how long I had access to the avs before I realized it, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 800 range. ;)

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:18 PM
It's because I "know" TPTB don't plan to utilize him the way that I feel they should. He's just a temporary roadblock and I don't think they're going to do anything terribly good with his character. The impression I get is that he's just there to keep Sam and Jack apart for "a little while longer" and then he'll be dumped overboard like a sack full of kittens. Kinda like Jonas was, really. :P
I understand now, thanks :) I liked the way they used Jonas at the end of season 5-7, until his character was gone really fast. I also agree with the 'temporary roadblock' comment, good metaphor, or... w/e... Haha... Anyways, i guess they'll put J/S together at the end i guess, but one more thing, i probably have to agree they won't 'utilize' Pete the way you feel they should, because yah, if that happened, Jonas would have still been in the show :), and i would have loved that... :D





Somwhere in the 800's, I think. I don't actually know how long I had access to the avs before I realized it, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 800 range. ;)Thanks! I was wondering about that :)

Shipperahoy
June 5th, 2004, 08:24 PM
I was kinda hoping my 1,000th post could buck convention and be all shiny and positive, but I guess it just isn't in my nature to be very happy about things. :(

Hey, but on the bright side you're a Royal Guard. Us System Lords are always looking for someone who can handle themselves in a fight. :D

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Hey, but on the bright side you're a Royal Guard. Us System Lords are always looking for someone who can handle themselves in a fight. :DHehe ;)

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 08:27 PM
Hey, but on the bright side you're a Royal Guard. Us System Lords are always looking for someone who can handle themselves in a fight. :D
I can smite infidels with the best of them! http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/scorchio/sevil.gif

bcmilco
June 5th, 2004, 08:29 PM
It also bothers me that Sam continues to pine after Jack even though she is supposed to be involved with Pete. Scenes are still being filmed in a way that implies Sam/Jack ship. I know she can't just "shut off" her feelings for Jack, but you'd think she'd be able to act a little more maturely about it and concentrate on the guy she is actually WITH, not the guy that she is supposed to realize isn't for her!

I agree with you. If she's making an honest attempt to move on then she shouldn't be 'making eyes' at Jack. I rationalize her actions as her being very confused :S



At least, if Pete really IS meant to be taken seriously, that is the impression I think TPTB should be trying to convey.

I don't think he is meant to be taken seriously, if he were I would think they would care more that people didn't like the way he was introduced... then again what do I know? :p


Mild SPOILERS for New Order below:
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER: I know that some people are saying that New Order "proves" that Pete isn't just a blip on the radar, but I can't help feeling uncomfortable about the way "Pete" is going to be depicted and I don't think it's a good sign of Things to Come. /SPOILER

That's really interesting, because I took his being apart of the episode as a sign that he is just a blip, a rather long blip, but a blip none the less. I mean he's the means of torture, although I guess it depends on how he's used, but I just can't see torture being effective if the person isn't suffering, thus I can't see him being used in a good way.

bcmilco
June 5th, 2004, 08:32 PM
Somwhere in the 800's, I think. I don't actually know how long I had access to the avs before I realized it, but I'm pretty sure it was in the 800 range.

I think the number got lowered, because before I "went away" for a couple of weeks I wasn't able to access them, but when I got back I was. and I was around ~510 at the time.

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:33 PM
I think the number got lowered, because before I "went away" for a couple of weeks I wasn't able to access them, but when I got back I was. and I was around ~510 at the time.Thanks bcmilco :) Well i know its not below ~510, because i'm almost to 520 :)

Shipperahoy
June 5th, 2004, 08:35 PM
Yes, as far as I know, Darren lowered the limit for access to some of the avs. To what, I don't know. Darren likes his secrets. :D

ShadowMaat
June 5th, 2004, 08:35 PM
...thus I can't see him being used in a good way.
Exactly. I can sort of see where people might get the impression that it means she's "serious" about him (thoughts of him are foremost in her mind), but the implementation just screams BAD BAD BAD to me.

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:36 PM
Yes, as far as I know, Darren lowered the limit for access to some of the avs. To what, I don't know. Darren likes his secrets. :DI would really really like to know when we can use our own, i'm anxious, well... back to posting about the topic :)

bcmilco
June 5th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Exactly. I can sort of see where people might get the impression that it means she's "serious" about him (thoughts of him are foremost in her mind)

ah! I wasn't sure how they were getting that, I suppose that makes a little sense :p

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:38 PM
ah! I wasn't sure how they were getting that, I suppose that makes a little sense :pNo sense to me :)

Shipperahoy
June 5th, 2004, 08:42 PM
I'm going to go the Pollyanna, glass half full, always look on the bright side of life route and say that I'll just wait until I see the season premiere. I'm really not sure what to make of the spoilers for the premiere but I'm hoping it's not as bad as some people..cough...Shadow....cough (xoxoxo :D ) thinks it will be.

Spoilers Season 8 New Order
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I'm really looking forward to the Fifth angle. I think that the episode with him in season 6 (having brain fart moment and can't recall the name) was one of the most thought-provoking episodes so far. And as far her hallucinating living with Pete I'll just have to wait and see. I can't help the chipperness. Finals are over and I got A's so I'll be on a high for a while. At least until summer session starts then I'll be sarcastic and cynical once again. But then I'll have my degree and I'll get to take my frustrations out on poor innocent people by poking them with needles and such. ;)

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:44 PM
I'm going to go the Pollyanna, glass half full, always look on the bright side of life route and say that I'll just wait until I see the season premiere. I'm really not sure what to make of the spoilers for the premiere but I'm hoping it's not as bad as some people..cough...Shadow....cough (xoxoxo :D ) thinks it will be.

Spoilers Season 8 New Order
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I'm really looking forward to the Fifth angle. I think that the episode with him in season 6 (having brain fart moment and can't recall the name) was one of the most thought-provoking episodes so far. And as far her hallucinating living with Pete I'll just have to wait and see. I can't help the chipperness. Finals are over and I got A's so I'll be on a high for a while. At least until summer session starts then I'll be sarcastic and cynical once again. But then I'll have my degree and I'll get to take my frustrations out on poor innocent people by poking them with needles and such. ;)Season 8 will probably be good for me, i'm looking forward to the 'insert character name' comming back :) I have one more final's day to do, then i'm finished :)

Chirp
June 6th, 2004, 03:53 PM
I did not read all of the post, but I have not read this sanarieo yet. What if Pete was a stocker? After all his friend at the FBI told him to, (leave this one alone). How did her brother get to meet him? He whated to know who Sam was, after she said I can't. In my book when someone in the service says I can't disandalge what I do, that tells me back off. That does not give me a go and call some one and help me find out.
As for Jack, he is a safe bet, but I don't see it happening. Jack felt funny that Sam was going with Pete, and yes I do think Jack and Sam need to talk. That is something they have not done. What is wrong with them talking over dinner? Now the Jack is Gen. and Sam is a Col. why not? I do think that Jack would some how warn Pete that if he hurts her and any why, shape or form, that he will have 4 very pissed off guys and a very unhappy dad to contend with. They need to have Jack and Pete having a very heart to heart talk, with out Sam knowing it. I'm sorry I only see Sam and Jack as very close freinds, even though they hurt very much when one of them are lost. Yes they did talk in Grace, but that was onesided. Sam was talking to herself. That was what she though Jack would say.

ShadowMaat
June 6th, 2004, 05:15 PM
I did not read all of the post, but I have not read this sanarieo yet. What if Pete was a stocker? After all his friend at the FBI told him to, (leave this one alone). How did her brother get to meet him? He whated to know who Sam was, after she said I can't. In my book when someone in the service says I can't disandalge what I do, that tells me back off. That does not give me a go and call some one and help me find out.
I'm sorry, maybe it's just been a long day, but I'm having trouble understanding what you're trying to say. Let me see if I can translate this into English:

What if Pete is a stalker? His friend at the FBI told him to "leave this one alone". How did Sam's brother meet him? Pete wanted to know who Sam was even after she said "I can't." In your book, when someone in the military service says "I can't tell you what I do" that tells you "back off." That does NOT give you a go-ahead to call someone to help you find out, anyway.

Is that more or less correct?

I personally do not believe that Pete is a stalker. To me, a stalker is someone with an unhealthy obsession with someone, who has a need to CONTROL that person and to exert his or her power over that person. To me, Pete is genuinely concerned about Sam- a woman he cares for deeply who has been sending him some very mixed signals about herself and her job. In my opinion, that is at least partly why he tried to find out more about her when she said "no": he was afraid something was wrong and she was afraid to tell him. I do, however, think that TPTB did a crappy job of introducing Pete and have left it wide open for people to make very negative assumptions about his character and his motives.

As for how Pete met Sam's brother, I kinda assumed it was work-related. Do we know what Sam's bro does? Hadn't really thought about it, but in Chimera I kinda assumed he was a cop, himself. That'd explain how he met Pete. More or less. ;)





As for Jack, he is a safe bet, but I don't see it happening. Jack felt funny that Sam was going with Pete, and yes I do think Jack and Sam need to talk. That is something they have not done. What is wrong with them talking over dinner? ***snipping out un-warned SPOILER for S8*** I do think that Jack would some how warn Pete that if he hurts her and any why, shape or form, that he will have 4 very pissed off guys and a very unhappy dad to contend with. They need to have Jack and Pete having a very heart to heart talk, with out Sam knowing it. I'm sorry I only see Sam and Jack as very close freinds, even though they hurt very much when one of them are lost. Yes they did talk in Grace, but that was onesided. Sam was talking to herself. That was what she though Jack would say.
Translation time again.

Jack is a safe bet, but you don't think it'll happen. You think Jack and Sam need to talk- it's something they haven't done and you don't think there's any problem with the two of them discussing it over dinner. You think Jack should make dire threats against Pete should Pete do anything that might hurt Sam. Jack and Pete should have a heart-to-heart about it without Sam's knowledge. You see Jack and Sam as friends only, however hurt one might act when something happens to the other. What happened in Grace was all one-sided and Sam only filled in what she thought Jack would say.

Yes?

I'm with you on only seeing Sam and Jack as friends. Unfortunately, TPTB are rampant shippers, so you can bet your bottom dollar that Sam and Jack will wind up together in the end... or it'll at least be heavily implied.

I do think it would be nice if the two of them sat down and hashed things out, but doing it over dinner would, IMO, be an incredibly bad idea. "Having dinner" would, to me, be a little too close to an actual date.

I don't think that Jack should threaten Pete, unless it's in a passing, jokey sort of way. It would be too easy to misinterpret the gesture as that of a jealous (potential) lover rather than the genuine concern of a friend and co-worker.

I haven't seen Grace, so I can't comment on it. ;)

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 05:19 PM
I don't think that Jack should threaten Pete, unless it's in a passing, jokey sort of way. It would be too easy to misinterpret the gesture as that of a jealous (potential) lover rather than the genuine concern of a friend and co-worker. Yah, i agree, that should not happen at all.

marimba26
June 18th, 2004, 06:27 AM
What's wrong with actual story telling and plot development? Other shows seem to be able to do it without sex or sexual tension involved. How about showing some interpersonal development (of the non-romantic kind) between all of the team members? How about actually going through the big round metal thing that they keep in the basement? There used to be mythology related stories, apparently TPTB lost their copy of Bullfinch's Mythology after season 3.

I'm not sure they ever had one :D . They got past "Ancient gods 101" and then...blam...nada. If they'd actually READ said book (or even Robert Graves' "The Greek Myths" for that matter), they would not have run out of baddies yet, but that's just MHO.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not asking that Jack never speak to Sam again (although it's tempting). I would just like to see episodes on a consistent basis where I'm not bombarded with 'subtext' (and I use sub- loosely in this case) about Sam wanting to jump her bosses bones.

You know, what I'm tired of is the "she loves him/she loves him not" mentality. If she loves him, fine :D , GET ON WITH IT!! If she doesn't, fine :eek: , kill it. Okay, so I DO have a preference here BUT my point is--MAKE A FRICKIN DECISION PTB!!!!!!!!! Okay, I said it--it's out there. If there's one thing I think everyone has in common though (shippers AND antis), it's that were ALL tired of having our chains yanked by PTB!!!

As for which way they'll resolve it in S8, who knows, only time will tell. I just wish they would RESOLVE it, FCOL!!!!!!!

DarkQuee1
June 18th, 2004, 12:55 PM
. To me, Pete is genuinely concerned about Sam- a woman he cares for deeply who has been sending him some very mixed signals about herself and her job. In my opinion, that is at least partly why he tried to find out more about her when she said "no": he was afraid something was wrong and she was afraid to tell him. I do, however, think that TPTB did a crappy job of introducing Pete and have left it wide open for people to make very negative assumptions about his character and his motives.

We must have seen different episodes. Sam did not give Pete any mixed signals concerning her job. He knew she was AF and she said she "can't tell him" what she does--that screams "classified" and he should quite well have been aware of that if he had two brains cells to rub together. At no time did Sam give any indication that her job made her afraid or that she was in trouble (and if that's what that scene was meant to convey, then that's something else that the writers did really poorly); she looked unhappy that she couldn't tell him something that he was repeatedly insisting that she tell him.

I saw nothing in Pete's actions to show that he was "genuinely concerned" about her safety. Did he mention that at any point? Did he ever say, in their conversation, "This sounds as if it might be dangerous for you. I'm worried" ?No, he ranted on about trust, which has nothing to do with Sam's safety and everything to do with what he wants to know (and if he were so concerned about her safety, then why did he run out into the middle of the operation--as a cop, he certainly should know better than to distract her or any of the others at a crucial moment--and increase her chances of being injured by getting in the way and forcing her to worry about *him*. But then, Pete's all about *him*.).

What about being concerned that he was pressuring her to tell him something classified, and that if she did, she could be up for a courts-martial, a dishonorable discharge and even possibly jail time? That didn't seem to bother him. What about respecting her request to leave it alone? He cared more about what *he* wanted than what *she* wanted. That's not caring and concern, that's selfishness.

And judging from his FBI friend's reaction, Pete has pulled something like this before (the friend was sarcastic about it's being a professional request. If this were the first time, that would make no sense.).

From the middle of the ep on, Pete was so consistently problematic that I was sure it was being done on purpose. Now, it appears that they had no idea. Amazing.

J.

marimba26
June 18th, 2004, 03:15 PM
[snip]
From the middle of the ep on, Pete was so consistently problematic that I was sure it was being done on purpose. Now, it appears that they had no idea. Amazing.

J.

Wow, I think what you said in your post puts it in a nutshell for me. If he was meant to be a nice guy, then why was he portrayed in such a way? I mainly mean that as a rhetorical question--just thinking out loud, I guess. I feel like they've made a LOT of mistakes with Pete--this disavowal of all knowledge of his problems is just the latest one.

I find this attitude interesting in light of past characters--most especially Anise. I recently read that they got rid of her because the fans didn't like her and that it was a thankless job for Vanessa Angel. I see Pete in the same situation but now TPTB are sticking to him like glue and suddenly they don't seem to care what the fans think. They seem to have gone the opposite direction even going to the extent of insinuating the fans are the ones with the problem (see RCC's latest comments in Cult Times). Instead of quietly getting rid of him and ALL his flaws, they shove him down our throats and ignore all his problems that *they* wrote in hopes that we will change our minds. I just have to wonder why the change in attitude all of a sudden. Just a thought.

Back on topic--I have come to the point not being sure *where* TPTB are going with them.

Sam & Jack Shipper
June 18th, 2004, 06:33 PM
Wow, I think what you said in your post puts it in a nutshell for me. If he was meant to be a nice guy, then why was he portrayed in such a way? I mainly mean that as a rhetorical question--just thinking out loud, I guess. I feel like they've made a LOT of mistakes with Pete--this disavowal of all knowledge of his problems is just the latest one.

I find this attitude interesting in light of past characters--most especially Anise. I recently read that they got rid of her because the fans didn't like her and that it was a thankless job for Vanessa Angel. I see Pete in the same situation but now TPTB are sticking to him like glue and suddenly they don't seem to care what the fans think. They seem to have gone the opposite direction even going to the extent of insinuating the fans are the ones with the problem (see RCC's latest comments in Cult Times). Instead of quietly getting rid of him and ALL his flaws, they shove him down our throats and ignore all his problems that *they* wrote in hopes that we will change our minds. I just have to wonder why the change in attitude all of a sudden. Just a thought.

Back on topic--I have come to the point not being sure *where* TPTB are going with them.


Vanessa Angel's brother wasn't one of TPTB. :(

Chirp
June 18th, 2004, 07:27 PM
:S :D yes shadowMaat you've got it on the nose. I'm tarable in writing and I chop the english language to hell. I am a US citzen beleave it or not. I did not listen to my teacher to will. I did try to I just gave up. There is 4 guys here helping me spill. I do try anyway.

ShadowMaat
June 18th, 2004, 07:35 PM
We must have seen different episodes.
No, believe it or not we WERE watching the same ep. Just because you had a radically different interpretation of things doesn't negate my opinion nor does it mean that we saw "different episodes." You see it your way, I see it mine. I clearly labeled what I said as being my viewpoint and I'm not likely to change my mind any time soon.

I still like Pete. I'm still OK with what he did. I still don't think he's a stalker. I still think Sam was sending mixed signals. I still think TPTB mucked things up severely and I have no hope that they'll make things better in S8. All my opinion, of course.

Dani347
June 18th, 2004, 07:49 PM
Shadow, some of us agree with you. And, I also saw the exact same episode as those who had a problem with Pete.

Dani347
June 18th, 2004, 07:53 PM
I don't think he is meant to be taken seriously, if he were I would think they would care more that people didn't like the way he was introduced... then again what do I know?

But, some people didn't have a problem with how he was introduced. I don't think there's any way to tell exactly how many people exist on either side of the issue. And, then, there are those who couldn't care less.

bcmilco
June 18th, 2004, 08:33 PM
But, some people didn't have a problem with how he was introduced. I don't think there's any way to tell exactly how many people exist on either side of the issue. And, then, there are those who couldn't care less.

Going by the number of comments coming from TPTB in reguards to Pete and the number of times he's been getting mentioned I'd say there must be quite a bit of backlash from viewers.

I mean if they weren't getting tons of email/mail/comments from people saying he came across looking bad why would they have to constantly tell us he's a nice guy?

To me, it seems that they need/want Pete around for s8 and to do that they have to ignore the fact that for a large portion of their audience he didn't come across the way they wanted. I say "large portion" because I doubt they'd do more then mention it if it were a "small portion" of the audience.

Madeleine
June 18th, 2004, 09:12 PM
Going by the number of comments coming from TPTB in reguards to Pete and the number of times he's been getting mentioned I'd say there must be quite a bit of backlash from viewers.

I mean if they weren't getting tons of email/mail/comments from people saying he came across looking bad why would they have to constantly tell us he's a nice guy?

To me, it seems that they need/want Pete around for s8 and to do that they have to ignore the fact that for a large portion of their audience he didn't come across the way they wanted. I say "large portion" because I doubt they'd do more then mention it if it were a "small portion" of the audience.

All of that would apply equally well to Jonas. A lot of people disliked him, and for reasons just as reasonable as the reasons people have for disliking Pete. TPTB spent plenty of time telling us he was a nice guy. And two years ago I could just as easily have said "they need/want Jonas around for s6 and to do that they have to ignore the fact that for a large portion of their audience he didn't come across the way they wanted."

TPTB went their own way with Jonas, and they'll go their own way with Pete. It's in their nature ;-)

ShadowMaat
June 18th, 2004, 09:17 PM
TPTB went their own way with Jonas, and they'll go their own way with Pete. It's in their nature ;-)
Yeah, and we all know how well THAT went. Poor Jonas. :(

Back on topic, I still think the Sam/Jack situation is unsalvageable. For me, anyway. TPTB have gone too far already, any backtracking now would only make them look more... er... wishy-washy (to use a more polite term than what I'm thinking).

uknesvuinng
June 18th, 2004, 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by ShadowMaat
Back on topic, I still think the Sam/Jack situation is unsalvageable. For me, anyway. TPTB have gone too far already, any backtracking now would only make them look more... er... wishy-washy (to use a more polite term than what I'm thinking).

I could see it being salvaged if TPTB would be willing to write a gritty dramatic episode in which the feelings affect Jack's performance as a commander visibly, resulting in a serious inquiry. Not a clipshow, but a real episode in which every reason why they can't pursue a romance is brought out in reasonable detail. Let there be real consequences for their actions (excepting courtmartial, which for the sake of the show can be avoided considering the unique nature of the stargate project). Let there be some real closure to this story as opposed to DnC which should have settled it. The shippers would complain for lack of happy ending, but they could at least be happy that there's evidence of feelings. And the ship could have the potential of really adding to the story instead of feeling so "forced".

marimba26
June 19th, 2004, 09:01 AM
All of that would apply equally well to Jonas. A lot of people disliked him, and for reasons just as reasonable as the reasons people have for disliking Pete. TPTB spent plenty of time telling us he was a nice guy. And two years ago I could just as easily have said "they need/want Jonas around for s6 and to do that they have to ignore the fact that for a large portion of their audience he didn't come across the way they wanted."

TPTB went their own way with Jonas, and they'll go their own way with Pete. It's in their nature ;-)

Okay, from a person who ADORES and REALLY MISSES Jonas (hey at least we agree on something :D )--I don't see this as the same. I saw Jonas as a nice guy in a tight spot. He burns all ties to his homeworld in order to do what's right and is taken in by the SGC. His actions in Redemption prove his merit to the rest of SG-1 and he joins the team. This to me was logical. I didn't like Jonas immediately but he is such a good sport and a nice guy that by the end of Redemption I was cool with him.

Okay, how is Pete different? Pete was introduced as a nice guy and I was okay for the first part of the ep (hey, I've survived other boyfriends). What bothers me MOST about Pete is NOT the background check (pushy and a clear abuse of police power, but that's another issue) or the fact that he walked out after she explained that she wasn't allowed to tell him (that qualifies him as a JERK but not a stalker). What bothers me is the fact that he FOLLOWED her. A question for serious thought to those who like Pete--would you like someone following you around? No need to answer, just think about it. I can say that I was followed and stalked for several months by a jealous ex and I will tell you it was the SCARIEST experience of my life!

It's been said here that a "stalker" has an unhealthy obsession--how is following someone not unhealthy? Again just a thought, no need to argue because I'm sure we all have valid reasons for our views. Others have been kind enough to provide their reasoning for their views, now I'm providing mine.

How does this affect the direction of Jack and Sam? It remains to be seen. I try to hope that they will get together but it's difficult to be positive (even for an optimist like me) when TPTB keep inundating me with Pete. I would be a lot happier for Sam if they had given her someone not as controlling or had just skipped the storyline all together. Yes, even as a SHIPPER I could live with NO romance A LOT easier than I can live with Pete. Again, I know some of us will disagree so there's no need to debate it here (there's a thread for that, after all). Just giving MHO.

Madeleine
June 19th, 2004, 09:05 PM
Okay, there are very few *individuals* for whom Jonas and Pete are on the same level. But in the fandom as a whole, there is a definite parallel. Just as you can excuse Jonas while not excusing Pete, there are lots of fans who can't see anything wrong with Pete and find Jonas objectionable. TPTB made it clear that anyone who wasn't sufficiently enamoured of Jonas was a Bad Fan, and they carried on with him for a whole season, and who knows if there might have even been a s7 with Jonas if MS had been unavailable. Luckily TPTB aren't directing the same criticism at the anti-Pete folk, but even so I can't see them changing their story plans because of the anti-Pete fans any time soon.

Whatever they have planned for Sam and Jack is whatever they'll do. For my part, I feel that TPTB are such big shippers themselves that I suspect that the plan has always been that Pete will last until ep 18 of s8 (or s9) and then - I can't write it, but you know where I'm going :P

At the moment, I'm not sure how I feel about the existence of Pete. If all he's there for is to give false hope to the anti-S/Jers then boo hiss. And even if he's a 'genuine' bf, he hasn't exactly succeeded in nixing the s/J stuff, so he's not really serving his purpose.

On the other hand he made Sam smile, and that's rare, so I'm not sure...

bcmilco
June 19th, 2004, 10:08 PM
Luckily TPTB aren't directing the same criticism at the anti-Pete folk,

I wasn't around when Jonas first made his appearance, so I don't know what kinds or how many comments were made about fans. However there has been at least one comment from RCC saying that 'some fans have issues they need to deal with' (paraphrasing here) and there have been several other comments too. Frankly I find the fact that they would make any disparaging comments about any fans -in public- to be in poor taste.


but even so I can't see them changing their story plans because of the anti-Pete fans any time soon.

I don't expect them to change their plans because I complain, but I have a right to free speach and I'll execise it :D :p


Whatever they have planned for Sam and Jack is whatever they'll do. For my part, I feel that TPTB are such big shippers themselves that I suspect that the plan has always been that Pete will last until ep 18 of s8 (or s9) and then - I can't write it, but you know where I'm going :P

I think you're right. I think Sam and Jack will end up together in the end, that seems to be their vision of what should happen with the show.


At the moment, I'm not sure how I feel about the existence of Pete. If all he's there for is to give false hope to the anti-S/Jers then boo hiss. And even if he's a 'genuine' bf, he hasn't exactly succeeded in nixing the s/J stuff, so he's not really serving his purpose.

Since I heard they were creating a bf for Sam I had the feeling he was just a plot device. Something I feel was confirmed by the second half of s7 with all the overt shippiness.


On the other hand he made Sam smile, and that's rare, so I'm not sure...
So does Jack :p

--
Here's something I've been thinking/wondering about:

Would the removal of Pete from the show make everyone more happy with the way the show went? And I think it might because:

First - I got the feeling that the second half of the season was as S/J shippy as it was to confirm that they weren't going to remove ship from the show, despite introducing Pete. So Removing Pete = Less need to set shippers' minds at ease = less 'ship for the second half of the season.

Second - Because they upped the S/J ship while still having Pete around it makes Sam look bad. Removing Pete = no love trianlge = no wishy-washy Sam.
Sure people would still say she has her "Jack issue" from Grace (assuming it went anything like it did without the bf arc to tie into), but with less overt ship I wouldn't think it would be quite as big a deal.

Third - For those who found Pete and his behavior to be offensive, it removes that negative element from the show.

(For me it would also restore my beliefe in independant!Sam, and don't-take-no-crap-from-anybody!Sam.)

And if nothing else it might just allow us to focus on the stargate and adventures and SG-1 a little bit more. ;)

Madeleine
June 19th, 2004, 10:21 PM
Here's something I've been thinking/wondering about:

Would the removal of Pete from the show make everyone more happy with the way the show went? And I think it might because:

First - I got the feeling that the second half of the season was as S/J shippy as it was to confirm that they weren't going to remove ship from the show, despite introducing Pete. So Removing Pete = Less need to set shippers' minds at ease = less 'ship for the second half of the season.

Second - Because they upped the S/J ship while still having Pete around it makes Sam look bad. Removing Pete = no love trianlge = no wishy-washy Sam.
Sure people would still say she has her "Jack issue" from Grace (assuming it went anything like it did without the bf arc to tie into), but with less overt ship I wouldn't think it would be quite as big a deal.

Third - For those who found Pete and his behavior to be offensive, it removes that negative element from the show.

(For me it would also restore my beliefe in independant!Sam, and don't-take-no-crap-from-anybody!Sam.)

Hmm. Removing Pete *might* lead to some of the things you've said, and leaving him in *might* cause some of the problems you and I and others have pondered.

But for me there's more to it than that. Pete himself doesn't make Sam look wishywashy, it's the way Sam still seems to yearn for Jack while dating Pete. So I'd vote for removing the Long Lingering Looks Sam gives Jack.

Certainly removing Pete would be a step in the right direction as far as most shippers are concerned. (But even writing that sentence I thought of a couple of ways he could go that wouldn't even make all shippers happy, so even then it would depend on the writing)


And if nothing else it might just allow us to focus on the stargate and adventures and SG-1 a little bit more. ;)

Yup, I'm all for that :)

ShadowMaat
June 19th, 2004, 10:21 PM
Would the removal of Pete from the show make everyone more happy with the way the show went? And I think it might because
I'd have to say no. First of all, I happen to love Pete, so seeing him removed would NOT make me happy. However, that being said, the issue isn't really about Pete at all, it's about the WRITING. At least, that's how I see it. Pete would be a non-issue if TPTB were able to write him in a way that didn't offend half the fandom. Sure, there'd still be a lot of angry shippers, but if Pete had been written in a competent manner to reflect the "nice guy" that the writers claim Pete is, more people would at least be able to accept/tolerate his presence.

Or, alternately, if the writers had owned up to the fact that Pete was nothing more than a cheap, pathetic plot device meant to put off S/J ship until the "right moment" and realized that they were above that sort of crap, then Pete might never have existed in the first place. But they didn't and he does so now he's become a Judas goat.

This is all my opinion and speculation, of course, but I think that if ANYONE is to blame, it's the writers.

Much as I love Pete, I have to say that for me, I do not watch Stargate to find out who's sleeping with whom or which guy Sam is chasing after this week or what it's like to have FEELINGS for someone... Stargate is supposed to be about STARGATE. That's why I watched. That's what I want to see. I do not want As the Gate Turns. Not with Pete, not with Jack, not with anyone.

Madeleine
June 19th, 2004, 10:32 PM
...there has been at least one comment from RCC saying that 'some fans have issues they need to deal with' (paraphrasing here) and there have been several other comments too.

Okay, I take it back, that comment *is* uncalled for. I'm really unhappy with the idea that a fan who dislikes an aspect of a show is 'wrong' to dislike it.


Frankly I find the fact that they would make any disparaging comments about any fans -in public- to be in poor taste.

Yup. The only thing I'd say is that to me it does make a difference whether someone gets quoted in an interview in a magazine (where tone of voice can't be added into the equation and where a word edited here or there can make a huge difference to the meaning), or if it's an unedited audio interview or a piece written directly onto a website by the person in question (where they are solely responsible for the words we hear or read).

bcmilco
June 19th, 2004, 11:24 PM
then Pete might never have existed in the first place.

This is what I was thinking in the first place, not just have him removed, but have him never exist. Or have him as the One-Episode-Wonder if all they wanted to do was remove the "Black Widow Curse" -don't get me started- and then have him go back to Denver to live out his life.



I have to say that for me, I do not watch Stargate to find out who's sleeping with whom or which guy Sam is chasing after this week or what it's like to have FEELINGS for someone... Stargate is supposed to be about STARGATE. That's why I watched. That's what I want to see. I do not want As the Gate Turns. Not with Pete, not with Jack, not with anyone.

I agree I don't want As the Gate Turns unless it's for an off-world activation ;) but I don't mind a little sideline S/J ship too :)

Jafana
June 19th, 2004, 11:43 PM
I'm an avid sam/jack shipper, but the more I think about it, the more I like Pete for the general storyline. Angst is what makes good emotional tv. And it adds that extra dimention for when they do actually go through the gate, thinking about what they've left behind.

The thing I hate is that the shippers who despise Pete don't realise that Sam has no knowledge of the background check he did. (this has all been said before.. im just adding my two cents) And I honestly believe that was not stalker behaviour... um, one background check - for a policeman might i add - does not a stalker make.

When he decided to follow her, thats when i started getting suspicious... but again, it just adds to the angst..

however... i have (perhaps misguided?) complete faith in tptb to give me what i want in the end :D

bcmilco
June 20th, 2004, 12:47 AM
Sam has no knowledge of the background check he did. (this has all been said before.. im just adding my two cents)

For me, it really depends on exactly how much time has passed between Pete getting injured and Sam going to tell him about the Stargate. I would assume she couldn't tell him about the Stargate until they did a proper background check thus a couple(?) of days have passed.

Any agency that can wipe the records of their employees probably has those records "marked" so that if they are searched they are flagged and the proper authorities are notified. (In this case I would assume the Joint Chiefs and Gen. Hammond). Once they find out about Pete's search it's a short jump for Sam to finding out especially if they are planning on telling Pete all about the Stargate. So I find it hard to believe that she doesn't know he checked up on her.

However the background check doesn't bother me too much (though I thought using FBI connections was a little... tacky).


And I honestly believe that was not stalker behaviour... um, one background check - for a policeman might i add - does not a stalker make.

I agree that a background check doesn't make a person a stalker. Nor do I think any of Pete's actions in Chimera qualify him as a "stalker". However I found his actions to be questionable specifically where he follows Sam to the stake-out and where he interfers with the stake-out. Those actions I found to be offensive, not the background check.

However as a policeman who holds power and sway where the average citizen doesn't, I think it shows an incredible lack of good judgemnet for him to follow her.

But as has been stated before that's the writers fault for writting it in such a way that his actions are open for interpretation.

TameFarrar
June 20th, 2004, 12:52 AM
I'm an avid sam/jack shipper, but the more I think about it, the more I like Pete for the general storyline. Angst is what makes good emotional tv. And it adds that extra dimention for when they do actually go through the gate, thinking about what they've left behind.

The thing I hate is that the shippers who despise Pete don't realise that Sam has no knowledge of the background check he did. (this has all been said before.. im just adding my two cents) And I honestly believe that was not stalker behaviour... um, one background check - for a policeman might i add - does not a stalker make.

When he decided to follow her, thats when i started getting suspicious... but again, it just adds to the angst..

however... I have (perhaps misguided?) complete faith in tptb to give me what i want in the end :D
I am just going to add my two cents here and then run :D
Personally, I to am an avid shipper that is pretty much established. That being said I could have *dealt* with PS being a one Episode wonder as well. BUT for me the turning point in the episode was a moment that has been touched on but not really addressed very much.

The moment PS JUMPED, yes literally JUMPED out of the bed and started spouting off all the stuff about trust and a life and twisted things in such a manner that Sam felt so TOTALLY dejected was the moment he became scum in my book. ANY man that uses emotional manipulation to get what he wants, be it his way, information or anything else is scum in my book.

I don't care that he followed her, I don't care that he did a background check on her.

What I cared about was that he left her sitting there feeling as if she was wrong. That she had calmly explained that she couldn't tell him about her job and why. What I cared about was PS was in such a hurry to get out of there that he was still putting on his shoes by his truck, because he didn't get his way. What I cared about was that TPTB saw nothing wrong with having Sam sit there and take THAT. What I cared about was TPTB had her fretting in her lab, making phone calls after THAT. Sam may not have KNOWN about the background check BUT SHE KNEW she was left sitting in a bed naked made to feel that she was next to nothing because she wouldn't tell this man what he demanded to know. Then when everything was all said and done. PS treated her VERY SHABBILY in my opinion AND still got what he wanted in the end.

THAT is NOT the direction I want to see the Sam character go.

bcmilco
June 20th, 2004, 01:11 AM
Very good points Tame. They do tend to get overlooked, and I agree with you.

Anubis
June 20th, 2004, 04:33 AM
Tame, you show some very strong points for this. But I agree with you

ShadowMaat
June 20th, 2004, 06:35 AM
Okay, I take it back, that comment *is* uncalled for. I'm really unhappy with the idea that a fan who dislikes an aspect of a show is 'wrong' to dislike it.
Taken out of context, it's hard to know what RCC meant or to what he was referring. If he is talking about the people who sent them death threats... I dunno. On the one hand, it's unprofessional to single out any group like that, but on the other... well, I tend to agree with him. But that's only IF he's referring to the senders of death threats and it doesn't change the fact that even if that IS who he meant, once you start something like that it becomes increasingly difficult to figure out where to draw the line. What starts off as an honest disdain for people making empty threats of murder could eventually become disdain for anyone who says anything remotely negative about the show. But that's a subject for another thread. ;)

I'm sick of defending Pete. I'm sick of arguing the whole issue. For me, there's a world of difference between adding some "emotional content" to an ep and focusing entire episodes and entire scenes on a bunch of trumped-up melodramatic BS. In my opinion, the stuff we've been subjected to on Stargate this past season would be better suited to soap operas, not a scifi action show.

keshou
June 20th, 2004, 08:00 AM
Would the removal of Pete from the show make everyone more happy with the way the show went? And I think it might because:
First - I got the feeling that the second half of the season was as S/J shippy as it was to confirm that they weren't going to remove ship from the show, despite introducing Pete. So Removing Pete = Less need to set shippers' minds at ease = less 'ship for the second half of the season.
Second - Because they upped the S/J ship while still having Pete around it makes Sam look bad. Removing Pete = no love trianlge = no wishy-washy Sam.
Third - For those who found Pete and his behavior to be offensive, it removes that negative element from the show.
And if nothing else it might just allow us to focus on the stargate and adventures and SG-1 a little bit more. ;)

When they first introduced Pete in Chimera I thought it was important to bring him back, not just let him be a one-episode plot device to get rid of the "black widow Sam" curse. I think Pete was meant to be a "good guy" but due to (IMO) the sloppy writing involved in getting Pete from "point A to point B" in the story many fans (both shipper and non-shipper) questioned not only Pete's behavior but Sam's out-of-character reactions as well.

Now I think Pete should just go away. No one seems to be very happy with how he's going to be used - the shippers, non-shippers or Pete/Sam fans. I thought the introduction of the Pete character might actually lead to an intelligent story arc involving one of the team members *trying* to have a relationship outside of work. A minor story arc for Sam. Now I just perceive Pete as the "obstacle" for the resolution of the Sam/Jack storyline. Hopefully he'll be more than that but my hopes aren't high.

So I'm in agreement with BCM - let's get back to the stargate and the adventures for SG-1 and strong Sam. Let's find out about the challenges facing her as leader of SG-1. I'm also in favor of keeping the S/J ship less overt and if getting rid of Pete helps with that I'm all for it.

As for the RCC interview he sounds a little defensive about one of the characters he helped create, but I'll always give the interviewees (whether actors or writers or producers) the benefit of the doubt because you don't know what the tone of voice was, whether it was taken out of context, whether he'd just come from reading a nasty letter, whether the interviewer egged him on or what. I've learned to be very wary of magazine interviews like that as a lot of "spin" can be put on quotes to make them more controversial. Controversy sells after all.

However, I find it odd that he seems offended by the "Stalker Pete" label which is exactly what Damian Kindler & company were calling Pete on the DVD commentary for Chimera. BTW - here is the quote from the Cult Times article:

http://www.visimag.com/culttimes/c106_feat01.htm

"Speaking of Carter, Cooper mentions that her boyfriend, Peter Shanahan (David DeLuise) is back on the scene: “Much to the dismay of many people.” He laughs. “Pete is definitely back in a couple of episodes, which will be a lot of fun. I mean, there’s a lot of stuff on the Internet about ‘Stalker Pete’ and it’s clear that some of these people have quite a few issues of their own that they have to deal with, but the whole discussion thing is fun.”


**

Chirp
June 20th, 2004, 08:00 AM
Will takin,(your opinion)is the same as mine. They put pete in there and we, (the fans)are not to notice,(let dogs lay)that the dog got up and tuned around a cupil of times and know is facing they other way!!!!!!!!! :eek: If they would put a woman in for Jack it might help. Who is pulling the wool over whos eyes,(or is that whom)Why haven't they put a widow moving in next door from Jacks place? To put a little spice into it add a boy that would be the same age as his son would be. There are many avenues they could put in to save the Jack and Sam ships let just hope they put in a good one. The only love Jack really has had is Laia in 100 Days and that was one sided. He still loved Sam, in so many ways.

ShadowMaat
June 20th, 2004, 08:12 AM
If they would put a woman in for Jack it might help.
I think that would make things worse. They've already mucked things up with the Sam/Pete thing, now you want them to do with same with Jack and some other woman? If it was about honest, heart-felt relationships with "outside" characters who had more than two dimensions and who were meant to be fully-fledged characters in their own rights (as opposed to cheap stupid plot devices) that might be one thing, but do you really think TPTB would take the time to do that?

Besides, who says that ANY character "needs" to have a significant other?

ana
June 20th, 2004, 09:38 AM
How does this affect the direction of Jack and Sam? It remains to be seen. I try to hope that they will get together but it's difficult to be positive (even for an optimist like me) when TPTB keep inundating me with Pete...... Yes, even as a SHIPPER I could live with NO romance A LOT easier than I can live with Pete.


Not debating at all! I just want to say that I agree with you; I can´t stand this Pete guy. And I have the feeling that he is in the NID paycheck

Dani347
June 20th, 2004, 10:30 AM
Besides, who says that ANY character "needs" to have a significant other?

I'd be fine if we never dealt with any of their romances. Just don't have it be an issue at all.

bcmilco
June 20th, 2004, 11:29 AM
I thought the introduction of the Pete character might actually lead to an intelligent story arc involving one of the team members *trying* to have a relationship outside of work. A minor story arc for Sam.

Yes I thought that too. I thought that they would show her trying to have a life, with someone and finding out that, for her, being single would be easier/better right now. Boy was I wrong :rolleyes:




BTW - here is the quote from the Cult Times article:

http://www.visimag.com/culttimes/c106_feat01.htm


Thanks for posting the quote. I knew someone would post it if I waited long enough ;) :p

Chirp
June 21st, 2004, 10:58 AM
What is good for the goose is good for the gander, in other words why dose Sam get to find out if her feelings towards Jack are true. Jack has the same feeling toward Sam are they just cause she is there or is it true love. Jack was ready to leave Sam behind in 100 days, cause he didn't know SGC would find a way back to the planet. When he got back it was same as before but worse. Jack knew then there was a little spark left. But he really don't know if it is just cause she is there or his command over here and I don't mean as a put you on a pedistal either I mean the col. and a maj.. Back to the subject, Jack needs a girl friend,( Sam is making Jack Jealous) and know Jack needs to get Sam jealous. Thats what I mean.

Dani347
June 21st, 2004, 12:15 PM
So, basically, Jack needs to use a woman. I mean, if he gets a girlfriend to make Sam jealous, that sounds like using the other woman to me. If this is going to turn into Passions, he should get a girlfriend because he cares for that woman. If it's all going to be about Sam, leave poor innocent third parties out of it.

Of course, if he's using some poor woman, it really will be like Passions.

Chirp
June 22nd, 2004, 08:39 AM
I'm sorry to make it sound so cheep. Not every one who goes out with someone other then the person they like or love knows it at the time. Sam is going out with Pete because, of her brother. Oppertunity opens the door by chance, like Sam and Pete. In my opinion your not useing anyone if you go out with 2 or 10 or 30 or more persons just to find out that the first one was the best one of all. Play the love game, thats what its all about. Maybe Pete and Jacks, girl next door might just happen to know each other, things happen in stranger ways. Like I said before just because Sam is going with Pete, there is so meny avenues that can be had. Maybe Jack still loves Sara, did he really put closure on his marrage or did she? In order to move on to the next step in life you should say good bye to the old, and don't look back. Is Sam really trying not to look back? and move on with Pete, and is Jack really trying not to look back at Sara? and move on to the next step, what ever step that might be!!!! Both of them have been looking at each other knowing that they can not touch and get hurt,(save bet). You have to have a few bumbs in the road at sometime in your life, don't waite till the end and have them make you pull off the road. Sam and Jack have pulled off the road to soon, and Sam has got back on for the sake of love. You can't go though life with out some kind of love, fizacal is the best.

marimba26
June 22nd, 2004, 01:44 PM
Not debating at all! I just want to say that I agree with you; I can´t stand this Pete guy. And I have the feeling that he is in the NID paycheck

http://www.smileycons.com/img/classic/0020.gif
Yeah, Pete squicks me too and it doesn't have that much to do with my love of the ship. My reasons are numerous and most of them have to do with him being a jerk. That whole following around thing just squicks me NO END!! I would use the S word here (some don't care for it so I'll refrain) but that's exactly what I'd call it if it were me or any other woman I know that he was following around. He *could* be on the NID paycheck (it would explain a few things)--either way, he's a creep! :eek: Just MHO.

marimba26
June 22nd, 2004, 01:49 PM
So, basically, Jack needs to use a woman. I mean, if he gets a girlfriend to make Sam jealous, that sounds like using the other woman to me. If this is going to turn into Passions, he should get a girlfriend because he cares for that woman. If it's all going to be about Sam, leave poor innocent third parties out of it.

Of course, if he's using some poor woman, it really will be like Passions.

I completely agree with you here! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO love squares! Do you hear that PTB? Love triangles are BAD enough!

Not to mention the effect it would have on the innocent parties involved. I'd feel sorry for the other person involved--they wouldn't deserve. Pete...well, I might have felt sorry for him too if he hadn't followed her around. If I *really* thought he was a nice guy, I would have felt bad that she was using him. :D

Chirp
June 28th, 2004, 12:44 PM
I'm not saying have a love triangle, I'm saying That love does not stop when you think you should not give up. Sams dad said it first, (your satestfied your not happy). Every time Sam Loves someone they die. Pete did not die. Sam whats to go on with this date, this guy friend. Is Jack realy happy with his life or is he satisfied? Is he going to waite to see if Sam will marry Pete, then move on. Maybe he what to get back with Sara, but Sam is there and he don't what to hurt her any more. There is your love square already. Sam did ask Jack at his home, do you talk to her? "He said" do we not go there. So he must be talking or doing something with Sara, I would think.

the dancer of spaz
June 28th, 2004, 10:12 PM
I wouldn't say 'fall guy' just 'not the guy'


I agree. Wasn't Pete created after much bothering by AT and fans? I didn't think that Amanda Tapping had gone to the writers for the sole purpose of creating an "obstacle" for Sam's relationship with Jack, because she was always talking about how (a) if she was gonna have random love interests, she'd like them to LIVE and (b) she didn't want to be "Jack's Girl."

I'm not gonna blame anyone for the change in direction in the (b) department, because people's feelings are allowed to change and grow with time. Sorry... that's just the way it goes sometimes.

However, I don't think that Pete was created as a careless attempt to keep the UST-odometer up. Does that make sense? I think, over time, they wanted to actually give Sam that "good guy," who won't die. The problem grew when, in the process, they added Super Seventh Season Sam and Jack Sexual Tension (now, say that five times fast!), and had to adjust Pete accordingly. It sucks, yes, but it wasn't intentional, I don't think.

I hope it wasn't intentional, anyway. David DeLuise is a good guy.

LoneStar1836
June 29th, 2004, 02:04 AM
I guess I'll toss in my two cents on the one-way street that TPTB seem to be on regarding the Sam/Jack issue. After reading the thread, my opinion more or less has already been expressed, with the exception of the whole thing with the goat. Poor goat. Anyway, the writers obviously already know where this one-way street is going to dead-end (Is that a church I see in the distance?), otherwise why introduce the concept of S/J ship and then promote it. I don’t like it because, IMO, it has affected Sam’s character negatively. I didn’t mind the UST, but after “Divide and Conquer”, they opened up the implication that the relationship could become more than just a professional working one. (And I use to not like that episode just because they offed Martouf.)

I think that with the introduction of Pete, who I like as a minor story arc (emphasis on minor), TPTB could have redirected Sam’s focus if Pete were to be taken seriously by the writers. I think I could have believed that Sam could have gotten over Jack, but since the writers have expressed/promoted their pro S/J direction, it wouldn’t be believable. Basically, if the writers would have kept their mouths shut about the J/S ship, even though they were writing it, I think it could have left them open to change direction midstream, maybe. Hey, they could still avoid that whole inevitable wedding bells ending by paying homage to “Dallas”. The whole S/J ship was someone’s bad dream, same as when Pam (who was doing the dreaming) woke up to find Bobby alive and well in the shower, thus wiping away an entire season of “Dallas”. I don’t know whom TPTB would put in the shower, though. Maybe it could be Luke. He got knocked silly with some very heavy, precariously stacked pots in the mess hall, took a very long shower, and ended up dreaming some wacky idea that ship was possible within military ranks. I won’t comment who’s in the bed. Yeah, it’s my stupid attempt to be funny, but the writers have homaged everything else, why not “Dallas”. JR as Goa'uld, that's a possibility.


Much as I love Pete, I have to say that for me, I do not watch Stargate to find out who's sleeping with whom or which guy Sam is chasing after this week or what it's like to have FEELINGS for someone... Stargate is supposed to be about STARGATE. That's why I watched. That's what I want to see. I do not want As the Gate Turns. Not with Pete, not with Jack, not with anyone.
That basically sums up my feelings for ship on Stargate. The writers need to focus Sam and Jack’s (and their own while they are at it) attention on the Stargate and not on each other. Don’t get me wrong. I still love Stargate. I’m just not that big on the S/J ship direction.



However, I don't think that Pete was created as a careless attempt to keep the UST-odometer up. Does that make sense? I think, over time, they wanted to actually give Sam that "good guy," who won't die. The problem grew when, in the process, they added Super Seventh Season Sam and Jack Sexual Tension (now, say that five times fast!), and had to adjust Pete accordingly. It sucks, yes, but it wasn't intentional, I don't think.
I would hope that it's not intentional to toss Pete in there just to stir up the S/J ship, but it seems as though that is what they have done. It's cruel to string Pete along, knowing he doesn't have a chance. (We know how it's going to end, but he doesn't.) Oh, and I don’t necessarily think the show will end literally with wedding bells (I hope it doesn’t anyway), but TPTB may try to suggest that that may happen in the sometime future after the show ends.

Zoser
July 15th, 2004, 09:03 AM
at which point she thinks shes kissing him, but it turns out to be a haddock :D
I think it would have to be a large mouth bass. It is a pond you know.
I'm a shipper but I prefer subtle and I think an established character that has a connection with the Stargate would have made a much better boyfriend for Sam (thinking Agent Barrett). But in any case I'm not looking for a soap opera. If I need a Sam and Jack fix there is always fan fiction.

trinity1013
July 16th, 2004, 12:02 AM
If she's making an honest attempt to move on then she shouldn't be 'making eyes' at Jack.

If she would make an honest attempt to get over her feelings for Jack, she'd ask for a transfer to another SG-team. As it is now, it seems to me she's just keeping the possibilities open without ever making a real decision.

trinity1013
July 16th, 2004, 12:15 AM
I could see it being salvaged if TPTB would be willing to write a gritty dramatic episode in which the feelings affect Jack's performance as a commander visibly, resulting in a serious inquiry (...) Let there be real consequences for their actions

Yes! I've waited for something like this to happen for a while now and in the last season, it'd be the perfect moment to address this thing in this way, stop beating around the bush and make S&J face it. That'd be a great way of resolving the situation.