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View Full Version : How did everyone miss this? (Spoilers)



Captain Obvious
April 26th, 2010, 11:03 AM
We had Daniel Jackson tell rush that an operative in the Lucian alliance told them about the Icarus planet.

This explains how they found out about our "Secret" base. They already knew about the planet. They most likely caught the guy who gave the Taur'i the information.

You people owe Dr. Rush an apology for claiming he brought them there to get to destiny.

MattSilver 3k
April 26th, 2010, 11:06 AM
Welp, I doubt every single person in the universe missed this, Cap't.

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php/74438-Background-information-on-Icarus-project-amp-Rush-amp-plot-hole-(spoiler)

This kid here had something similar to note. :D

yet
April 26th, 2010, 11:31 AM
I remember hearing it, but i didn't realise what it meant as to Air and the Lucian alliance attacking the base. so thanks :o

hedwig
April 26th, 2010, 11:32 AM
We had Daniel Jackson tell rush that an operative in the Lucian alliance told them about the Icarus planet.

This explains how they found out about our "Secret" base. They already knew about the planet. They most likely caught the guy who gave the Taur'i the information.

You people owe Dr. Rush an apology for claiming he brought them there to get to destiny.

I heard Daniel tell Dr. Rush about the operative in the Lucien Alliance. Even so, I don't believe anyone owes Dr. Rush an apology. In my opinion, Rush was simply more interested in dialing the 9th Chevron and finding out where it went than he was in safely getting people back to earth; since dialing back to earth would have prevented him from ever finding out where the 9th Chevron went. I could have missed any comments by one or more of the characters, but I don't recall anyone ever saying the 9th Chevron would lead to the Destiny. :)

JustAnotherVoice
April 26th, 2010, 11:37 AM
Do I point out the delicious irony in "captain obvious" missing the other rather obvious thread?

No. I don't believe I shall.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 27th, 2010, 04:12 AM
We had Daniel Jackson tell rush that an operative in the Lucian alliance told them about the Icarus planet.

This explains how they found out about our "Secret" base. They already knew about the planet. They most likely caught the guy who gave the Taur'i the information.

You people owe Dr. Rush an apology for claiming he brought them there to get to destiny.

I didn't miss it, but considering that Rush is essentially talking to himself (or the Destiny's AI) when he's talking to DJ, who exactly told Rush? Why, Rush told Rush, and how would Rush know? Rush knows because he;s the LA spy? So, no apology from me for stranding them. We;ve already seen that Rush will deal with anyone to get (back) on the Destiny, as in making a deal with the aliens, so why not this?

FallenAngelII
April 27th, 2010, 06:23 AM
This was my immediate thought when Daniel said that. I admit to once having contemplated the idea of Rush bringing the LA to Icarus, but then I realized that it made no sense. It didn't help him in any way. They had just managed to figure out how to dial the 9th chevron, which means that if Rush leaked the info earlier, what difference would it have made? How would it have conceivably helped him in dialing the gate?

Also, if he did this after he leaked Icarus' location, how would it have helped him? He already had the green light from Earth. All he needed to do was to figure out how to fire the thing up and then go.

Rush had nothing to gain from giving up their location to the LA, nothing at all.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 27th, 2010, 06:24 AM
guess we'll have to wait and see :)

reddevil18
April 27th, 2010, 06:37 AM
Never has a thread starter had a more appropriate username for that thread.

Lord Hurin
April 27th, 2010, 12:27 PM
This explains how they found out about our "Secret" base. They already knew about the planet. They most likely caught the guy who gave the Taur'i the information.

You people owe Dr. Rush an apology for claiming he brought them there to get to destiny.

People actually thought this was the case? That Rush somehow engineered the attack? What FAII said above is completely true about it not benefitting Rush at all. Also, I can't see him being entirely apathetic to the soldiers and planning an attack that would most certainly kill and wound some of them.

tricky
April 27th, 2010, 04:21 PM
Well, for one thing, it makes it clearer how they get a LA opperative onboard Destiny, according to some sources.

My only real question is this going to be a 'communication stones" thing, or is someone on Destiny not who they say they are?

It's option #2, and it's Chloe, and she is really this [email protected]$$ LA special agent, using that Reol chemical to make the Senator think she's his daughter!

lol, jk!

Saquist
April 27th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I heard Daniel tell Dr. Rush about the operative in the Lucien Alliance. Even so, I don't believe anyone owes Dr. Rush an apology. In my opinion, Rush was simply more interested in dialing the 9th Chevron and finding out where it went than he was in safely getting people back to earth; since dialing back to earth would have prevented him from ever finding out where the 9th Chevron went. I could have missed any comments by one or more of the characters, but I don't recall anyone ever saying the 9th Chevron would lead to the Destiny. :)


Hmmm. That's what I got out of it. I don't really know where Obvious was going with the Thread.
I didn't hear anything about Rushes motives that sent them to Destiny.

FallenAngelII
April 27th, 2010, 09:09 PM
I heard Daniel tell Dr. Rush about the operative in the Lucien Alliance. Even so, I don't believe anyone owes Dr. Rush an apology. In my opinion, Rush was simply more interested in dialing the 9th Chevron and finding out where it went than he was in safely getting people back to earth; since dialing back to earth would have prevented him from ever finding out where the 9th Chevron went. I could have missed any comments by one or more of the characters, but I don't recall anyone ever saying the 9th Chevron would lead to the Destiny. :)
Plenty of people have speculated (irrationally) here on Gateworld that it was Rush who brought the Lucian Alliance to Icarus Base, that he engineered the attack for personal gain. Those are the people who need to recant and admit to being wrong.

Daro
April 27th, 2010, 10:48 PM
I don't think many of us missed the LA comment, it's been referred to in many threads this week.

Rush engineering the attack on Icarus has struck me as an argument made without much thought by those who intensely dislike the character and are willing to believe he's an absolute villain. But, to play devil's advocate, who's to say that Rush isn't from the LA? I mean, yes, he has a good backstory on Earth, but it's possible. He could have been working for them long ago and run away. I don't think that's what's going on at all, but I'm willing to entertain the notion. No matter what, though, I can't imagine him intentionally causing the destruction of the base. Even if he weren't a decent person in any way, he is undoubtedly dedicated to his work and would not throw it all away to deal with a "street gang with space ships," as he referred to them in the extended version of Air.

What I keep asking is, what did the LA have to gain by attacking the base? Did they know about the ninth chevron project? If not, it might make sense. Otherwise, why throw away all those ships and resources on the slim chance that Dr. Rush and Eli would manage to dial through to Destiny? What does their attack get them?

You know, I can think of one possibility, actually. If they had a tracking device on their operative, whoever it was, they might have been able to tell when their operative left the base. Since the stargate was the only way out. I'd also think the operative was someone who knew the gate was going to be dialed, and could signal the LA, but who didn't realize there would be a delay when Eli's solution didn't work at first. The LA may have wanted to get their operative aboard, then destroy the base, to keep the Destiny cut off from reinforcements from Earth. If it isn't such a mistake, how would they know that Rush would choose to dial the ninth chevron instead of Earth or another planet in the local galaxies?

...unless of course they were certain that Rush would do so because they knew him very well? I'm canceling out some of my own arguments there, but I'm just trying to sift through the possibilities. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 28th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Daro,

I think you are dead on regarding Rush and the LA. It would shock me not in the slightest if Rush were using them to further his goals. As I've said before I think Rush is the ulitimate pragmatist using whatever he thinks is to his advantage to further his goals. He's not immoral he's almost amoral. It's an interesting choice for his character.

To relate it back to this episode. I wonder if the tearful farewell to his wife will affect his amorality. Whether he will start gelling more with the crew in an effort to be more "human"?

FallenAngelII
April 28th, 2010, 06:44 AM
Daro,

I think you are dead on regarding Rush and the LA. It would shock me not in the slightest if Rush were using them to further his goals. As I've said before I think Rush is the ulitimate pragmatist using whatever he thinks is to his advantage to further his goals. He's not immoral he's almost amoral. It's an interesting choice for his character.
And again I ask: What could he possibly have had to gain from the Lucian Alliance attacking Icarus Base when they did?

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 28th, 2010, 09:07 AM
Sorry, but I don't have to recant an opinion; that's all any of us have at this point so, no. Do I believe Rush is capable of using anyone, be they aliens or the Lucian Alliance if it furthers his goals? Yes.

Fridgefiend
April 28th, 2010, 09:16 AM
I didn't miss it, but considering that Rush is essentially talking to himself (or the Destiny's AI) when he's talking to DJ, who exactly told Rush? Why, Rush told Rush, and how would Rush know?

Or Rush remembered Daniel telling him the first time? Or everyone involved in the project knew how they got the planet expecially considering Rush was the head scientist on icarus. The line between Rush's memory and him changing things was kinda iffy in this episode i found.

Saquist
April 28th, 2010, 09:24 AM
If you were wrong, you were wrong whether you recant or not.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 28th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Or Rush remembered Daniel telling him the first time? Or everyone involved in the project knew how they got the planet expecially considering Rush was the head scientist on icarus. The line between Rush's memory and him changing things was kinda iffy in this episode i found.

it was a little bomb dropped that will likely play out in future episodes :)

Daro
April 28th, 2010, 09:32 AM
And again I ask: What could he possibly have had to gain from the Lucian Alliance attacking Icarus Base when they did?

Here is one scenario I can think of.

Rush knew the LA would be interested in the planet, especially because he knew that SGC found the base through the LA. He has demonstrated from the start that he does not trust the military, and wants to be in scientific control of the project. If he was working with them from the start, he may have come to an arrangement. The attack on the base cut everyone off from Earth. The LA would perhaps believe that Rush would then further their interests. He probably never intended that, as getting cut off from Earth also cuts him off from the LA.

That would mean Rush is more ruthless than I care to think he is, but I won't deny the possibility. We saw in "Air" that Rush tends to become certain of success before he actually achieves it. When he reaches a breakthrough, he charges blindly ahead without much thought to the consequences because failure is not an option.

All that said, I don't think he is their operative. I don't think he's that bad a guy. But just because I love the character doesn't mean that I'm not willing to entertain the notion that I'm wrong about what he would and would not do. We still don't actually know him that well. Maybe things started out with him being callous and horrible, and now his newly regained humanity is genuine. The 'hurting people' comment Gloria made could mean a lot more than we think it does.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 28th, 2010, 09:39 AM
... The 'hurting people' comment Gloria made could mean a lot more than we think it does.
yep, this!
I think there's a lot of hurtful stuff he's done that he's going to have to atone for

FallenAngelII
April 28th, 2010, 09:54 AM
Sorry, but I don't have to recant an opinion; that's all any of us have at this point so, no. Do I believe Rush is capable of using anyone, be they aliens or the Lucian Alliance if it furthers his goals? Yes.
No one is asking you to recant an opinion. You're free to think Rush is capable of doing X and Y. But some people claimed that he actually did it without any proof.


Here is one scenario I can think of.

Rush knew the LA would be interested in the planet, especially because he knew that SGC found the base through the LA. He has demonstrated from the start that he does not trust the military, and wants to be in scientific control of the project. If he was working with them from the start, he may have come to an arrangement. The attack on the base cut everyone off from Earth. The LA would perhaps believe that Rush would then further their interests. He probably never intended that, as getting cut off from Earth also cuts him off from the LA.
Rush had no way of knowing what was beyond the 9th chevron. No one did. So you're saying he's prescient and knew they'd be stuck on-board Destiny and chose to lead the Lucian Alliance to the Icarus Planet on some hair-brained scheme that he hoped he'd somehow gain sole control of the Destiny, even with Young there?!

Lord Hurin
April 28th, 2010, 04:06 PM
Rush had no way of knowing what was beyond the 9th chevron. No one did. So you're saying he's prescient and knew they'd be stuck on-board Destiny and chose to lead the Lucian Alliance to the Icarus Planet on some hair-brained scheme that he hoped he'd somehow gain sole control of the Destiny, even with Young there?!

Hell, some people think that Rush is some omnipotent man who knows what will happen when and uses it to his advantage. I remember people thinking that he wanted to be stranded by Young so he could further study the alien ship. People were posting that "Young played right into [Rush's] hands" and "he's been manipulating everyone since the first episode to achieve this" as though Rush knew all that would befall the Destiny.

For better or for worse, some people think Rush knows everything ahead of time and manipulates it to get his way. Rush is smart, but he's not some godly Q-like being.

FallenAngelII
April 28th, 2010, 04:53 PM
Hell, some people think that Rush is some omnipotent man who knows what will happen when and uses it to his advantage. I remember people thinking that he wanted to be stranded by Young so he could further study the alien ship. People were posting that "Young played right into [Rush's] hands" and "he's been manipulating everyone since the first episode to achieve this" as though Rush knew all that would befall the Destiny.

For better or for worse, some people think Rush knows everything ahead of time and manipulates it to get his way. Rush is smart, but he's not some godly Q-like being.
I'm not gonna express my opinion of "those people" for fear of being infracted, but, yah...

Daro
April 28th, 2010, 06:57 PM
No one is asking you to recant an opinion. You're free to think Rush is capable of doing X and Y. But some people claimed that he actually did it without any proof.


Rush had no way of knowing what was beyond the 9th chevron. No one did. So you're saying he's prescient and knew they'd be stuck on-board Destiny and chose to lead the Lucian Alliance to the Icarus Planet on some hair-brained scheme that he hoped he'd somehow gain sole control of the Destiny, even with Young there?!

If you'd bothered to read the post all the way through, I said clearly that I don't believe that any of this happened, but that I'm considering possibilities. Nor did I claim I had proof of any such thing. It's speculation. I love Rush, I think he's a good man. I defend him to 'those people' all the time. I think you're overreacting; I like to be open minded enough to consider that Rush is not a good guy, because so far we have little concrete proof one way or the other. Both sides have valid points to argue he's one or the other.

*IF* I did "believe" that Rush were working with the LA, though, here would be my reasoning: He didn't have to know what would be on the other side. He knew he was going. If, in the scenario I outlined, he was intentionally trying to gain control of the ship, planet, or whatever he found on the other side of the gate, he could have possibly taken steps to sever his connection with those who would control him. And yes, I think he might, if he were that ruthless and overconfident, believe he could handle Young. We saw from the first that he tried to take control of the mission (and I'll add, in his defense, that Gen. O'Neill did say to him "Bring those people home, Rush." in the extended version of "Air," which could imply that he's in command.) Rush is a risk taker, he took the risk of dialing the ninth chevron and sending everyone and himself through, and he had no clue if there'd be air to breathe on the other side.

Again, though, you should consider the source. You know, if you've read my other posts, that I don't really believe he'd throw away the lives of all those people who died during the attack on the base. : /

Lord Nyarlathotep
April 28th, 2010, 07:03 PM
uh...they didn't?

FallenAngelII
April 28th, 2010, 09:20 PM
If you'd bothered to read the post all the way through, I said clearly that I don't believe that any of this happened, but that I'm considering possibilities.
...
...
...

You clearly stated that you were not going to recant "an opinion". I merely said no one is asking you to recant an opinion...

Daro
April 28th, 2010, 10:50 PM
You apparently need to read through all the posts then, because the part where you were saying something about recanting opinions was not a reply to anything I had posted.

My post was entirely about speculating on Rush and his possible connections to LA. It was xxxevilgrinxxx who posted about refusing to recant opinions, not I. The part of your reply I took issue with was the part where you quoted my post and then seemed to lump me in with the many Young supporters who make wild claims to support their belief that Rush is evil.

Unless there is some major script error on the forum, I'm not entirely sure why you're confusing me with xxxevilgrinxxx. If that's the case, then I apologize.

EllieVee
April 29th, 2010, 03:33 AM
*thinks it's weird that people are actually accusing Rush of the same thing that I put in a fanfic last year*

FallenAngelII
April 29th, 2010, 04:53 AM
You apparently need to read through all the posts then, because the part where you were saying something about recanting opinions was not a reply to anything I had posted.

Unless there is some major script error on the forum, I'm not entirely sure why you're confusing me with xxxevilgrinxxx. If that's the case, then I apologize.
Sorry, you were replying to a post in which I replied to the both of you.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
April 29th, 2010, 01:12 PM
Spoilers have it that colonel Telford may be the mole inside the L.A.

Daro
April 29th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Sorry, you were replying to a post in which I replied to the both of you.

No harm done.


Spoilers have it that colonel Telford may be the mole inside the L.A.

I'll be somewhat disappointed if that turns out to be true. Telford is too obvious. Then again, he's not been a major character yet, more of an annoyance. I would want the show to display some of his good qualities, if he has them.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 29th, 2010, 07:29 PM
No harm done.



I'll be somewhat disappointed if that turns out to be true. Telford is too obvious. Then again, he's not been a major character yet, more of an annoyance. I would want the show to display some of his good qualities, if he has them.

Wouldn't it be something if Telford wanted on board to STOP the mole? Egads, What if we're supposed to LIKE Telford? I can just hear a writer laughing evilly in the background.

Daro
April 29th, 2010, 08:40 PM
Wouldn't it be something if Telford wanted on board to STOP the mole? Egads, What if we're supposed to LIKE Telford? I can just hear a writer laughing evilly in the background.

I know that's what I'd do. Mwahaha!

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 30th, 2010, 05:15 AM
FallenAngel,

To clairfy my earlier post, I think Rush is capable of working with the LA and using them for his own ends. That doesn't mean I think he did.

EllieVee
April 30th, 2010, 05:26 AM
Hell of a lot more interesting if it was Saint TJ.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 30th, 2010, 06:42 AM
I know that's what I'd do. Mwahaha!

I'd totally do that, ha!

mi_guard
June 16th, 2010, 08:45 AM
And if the information Daniel gave to Rush "Our source inside the Lucian Alliance has come through. We've got the location of a planet that just might suit our power requirements" was not part of Rush' memory but was stored in Destiny's memory?

Pharaoh Atem
June 20th, 2010, 09:53 AM
We had Daniel Jackson tell rush that an operative in the Lucian alliance told them about the Icarus planet.

This explains how they found out about our "Secret" base. They already knew about the planet. They most likely caught the guy who gave the Taur'i the information.

You people owe Dr. Rush an apology for claiming he brought them there to get to destiny.

rush did bring them to destiny. he could have dialed any addresses he wanted .including a Pegasus gate .. he chose the 9th chevron

mi_guard
August 8th, 2010, 02:46 PM
after 'incursion' I would say that the information Daniel mentioned was in Rush's memory due to a memory bleedover from Telford caused by an earlier use of the stones. what do you think?

Egle01
August 8th, 2010, 10:48 PM
after 'incursion' I would say that the information Daniel mentioned was in Rush's memory due to a memory bleedover from Telford caused by an earlier use of the stones. what do you think?I think you're correct. But this thread is in episode "Human" folder. Everything new about after that episode - like "Incursion" - needs to be discussed with spoiler tags.

mi_guard
August 9th, 2010, 03:10 AM
sorry - I did not realize it. this is only my 2nd post - but I will keep this in mind for next time.
thanks for your feedback!

Egle01
August 9th, 2010, 08:21 AM
sorry - I did not realize it. this is only my 2nd post - but I will keep this in mind for next time.
thanks for your feedback!It's okay, and you're welcome. :)