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thekillman
April 24th, 2010, 08:10 AM
WHOOHOO!



kudos to the writers. Chloe is useful. she's learning archeology and was smart enough to make the remark that many advanced cultures had advanced stuff under what seemed like primitive architecture. i mean, what was to be the capital of the ancient empire is in modern times just a bunch of stones. Heliopolis is the same, Dakara, the second Repository, the arctic superweapon was even better hidden, the minidrone pedestal, the brotherhood ZPM, and Arcturus. did i miss anything? oh yea the shrine of talus.


anyway, many times the stuff was well hidden in what appeared to be just ruins. so yes any genre-savvy person would recognise the need to explore ruins.


did i mention that i LOVE chloe being useful?

dacooker
April 24th, 2010, 08:15 AM
Are you serious?

She just said that stuff to get off the ship.

Shai Hulud
April 24th, 2010, 08:17 AM
Thor's hammer and the Furling teleportation device...

Chloe's main area of usefullness appears to be eye candy, its nice that the writers are trying to now broaden the character, even though I do still find her just a tad annoying!

JustAnotherVoice
April 24th, 2010, 08:22 AM
she's learning archeology and was smart enough to make the remark that many advanced cultures had advanced stuff under what seemed like primitive architecture. i mean, what was to be the capital of the ancient empire is in modern times just a bunch of stones. Heliopolis is the same, Dakara, the second Repository, the arctic superweapon was even better hidden, the minidrone pedestal, the brotherhood ZPM, and Arcturus. did i miss anything? oh yea the shrine of talus.


anyway, many times the stuff was well hidden in what appeared to be just ruins. so yes any genre-savvy person would recognise the need to explore ruins.

Yeah, that is what I found most jarring about Scott and Greer. Surely both of them would have been read in on important stuff, oh, you know, like where they found nearly EVERY important bit of advanced tech in the MW?

Kaiphantom
April 24th, 2010, 08:32 AM
No, she wasn't useful. She just wanted to get off the ship for another mini-vacation, thinking only if herself instead of everyone else. She is playing a good politician though, betraying Eli's trust then sweet-talking him back to her side so he'd help her get off the ship.

As military personnel, Scott and Greer would have read all mission reports and be more acquainted with the "technology hidden under ruins" idea. Chloe, being "in" on the secret stargate program, probably would have read quite a few reports.

But she's no archaeologist and no Dr. Jackson. Heck, regardless of how you felt about the character, Jonas Quinn was a better Dr. Jackson. And they actually established him as having an advanced mind and having spent months actually reading Dr. Jackson's notes *before* he went out with the team (in the milky way, which is where those notes would actually have proven useful).

hedwig
April 24th, 2010, 08:41 AM
I think Chloe can be useful, but has chosen not to be for whatever reason. She apparently has a lot of information that could be useful on the ship, but hasn't let it be known before now that she has any useful knowledge. There are plenty of things on the ship she can do to make herself useful (assisting the scientists in some way; assisting TJ in the infirmary; assisting somewhere). I agree with those who said she just used the information she had in order to get off the ship again. After all, she just spent a month on a nice planet with fresh air, water, food, etc. She'd probably use pretty much any excuse to get off the ship again, even for a short time.

Gollumpus
April 24th, 2010, 08:45 AM
Well, it was supposed to be a "cute" moment, one where Chloe could start to re-endear herself to the menfolk in her life... meh.

I was surprised that Eli was sent along on this mission let alone Chloe. Two military types, I can see going, but wouldn't someone who had some skills in structural engineering (assuming they had one), or a person with a better grasp of the Ancient language be better choices for the civilians? How about plant/food gathering? And why only four people on the team? I would have thought there would be a whack of folks who would want to get off of the ship and stomp on real ground for a change. Yes, they may be unsure that there may be an attack, however, just four people? And Eli and Chloe? They have lots of folks who know how to drive a kino.

regards,
G.

Jonzey
April 24th, 2010, 08:52 AM
Why does everyone forget Young's line in Air when he talks about wanting everyone to do their part and step up so he can see what they're made of?

Gollumpus
April 24th, 2010, 09:04 AM
Why does everyone forget Young's line in Air when he talks about wanting everyone to do their part and step up so he can see what they're made of?

True, however isn't it a bit more useful for all concerned to have people with the actual skills going along to mentor the less skillful bodies? It seems pointless to send out folks to do a task if they don't have any relevant skills. :)

regards,
G.

thekillman
April 24th, 2010, 09:08 AM
you realise that she actually did study that stuff?

Kaiphantom
April 24th, 2010, 09:10 AM
Why does everyone forget Young's line in Air when he talks about wanting everyone to do their part and step up so he can see what they're made of?

But Chloe IS doing what she's best at! Taking advantage of good planets and flashing skin and having sex!


you realise that she actually did study that stuff?

What stuff did she study that is remotely useful?

escyos
April 24th, 2010, 09:17 AM
But Chloe IS doing what she's best at! Taking advantage of good planets and flashing skin and having sex!



What stuff did she study that is remotely useful?

political science...im sure that would help you with negotiations and diplomacy and stuff

rsanchez
April 24th, 2010, 09:18 AM
Yeah, it was so useful that she persuaded Scott, against his better judgment, to let them explore down in the maze. And she was REALLY useful when she just got too scared to keep going then rushed into a giant spider that forced Greer to kill it and cause a cave-in. Oh yea, Chloe is the most useful one on the ship.

Gollumpus
April 24th, 2010, 09:22 AM
you realise that she actually did study that stuff?

And I'm sure that her two or three weeks of looking at stuff has made her an authority in the field... :P

What I was getting at is that there should be other folks on Destiny who have relevant skills (some have a few decades of work experience and others "just" have a doctorate in the field). I'm okay if the writers want Chloe there, however it makes a bit more sense to me to also have someone else along who has a better chance to know something about what they are seeing. Having Chloe become their source for all things Ancient or otherwise because she's spent some time reading Daniel Jackson's version of "Cole's Notes" is a bit of a stretch. :)

regards,
G.

s09119
April 24th, 2010, 09:22 AM
Yeah, it was so useful that she persuaded Scott, against his better judgment, to let them explore down in the maze. And she was REALLY useful when she just got too scared to keep going then rushed into a giant spider that forced Greer to kill it and cause a cave-in. Oh yea, Chloe is the most useful one on the ship.

They probably would have ran into the spider either way, since it was coming towards them from the direction of the entrance. Blaming her because Greer decided to empty half a magazine into the ceiling is a little unfair.

Kaiphantom
April 24th, 2010, 09:27 AM
political science...im sure that would help you with negotiations and diplomacy and stuff

Yeah, that's great! So, if like, the civilians and military start having problems with each other, she can play diplomat and negotiate so it doesn't come to a mutiny situation! I'm sure she'd do that, and come out a hero, rather than just joining a side...

Gollumpus
April 24th, 2010, 09:47 AM
political science...im sure that would help you with negotiations and diplomacy and stuff

I'm not sure I buy the helpful in negotiation line that has been touted as Chloe's future strong point.

In SG-1, Jackson was the team's ambassador. He was useful in this role as he was a linguist and had a depth of knowledge of many Earth's cultural forms. He could figure out how to avoid stumbling blocks which resulted in first contact situations being easier. He was also useful in dealing with the goa'uld as their cultures were Earth-based. Later, he was able to expand into non-human cultures and species

Chloe has a political science degree and she's (supposedly) read the short form of Jackson's notes on something. And she's attractive by human standards. As far as we know, her skills are in recent history (likely 1700's - present day) political systems. She has not demonstrated any form of linguistic ability. Any contribution she could put forward would be a contrivance on the part of the writers. I do not see Chloe figuring out, "We need to find the leader, Mangalores won't fight without the leader".

And what if the alien race don't think she's all that...

regards,
G.

chrono trigger
April 24th, 2010, 09:50 AM
WHOOHOO!



kudos to the writers. Chloe is useful. she's learning archeology and was smart enough to make the remark that many advanced cultures had advanced stuff under what seemed like primitive architecture. i mean, what was to be the capital of the ancient empire is in modern times just a bunch of stones. Heliopolis is the same, Dakara, the second Repository, the arctic superweapon was even better hidden, the minidrone pedestal, the brotherhood ZPM, and Arcturus. did i miss anything? oh yea the shrine of talus.


anyway, many times the stuff was well hidden in what appeared to be just ruins. so yes any genre-savvy person would recognise the need to explore ruins.


did i mention that i LOVE chloe being useful?

i dont think one episode makes her useful it takes more than that in my opinion.

Commander Zelix
April 24th, 2010, 10:08 AM
i dont think one episode makes her useful it takes more than that in my opinion.
If she becomes a super soldier or a super scientist, it would be unrealistic and boring.

It was nice of her to take the initiative to read some of the Jackson writings. Maybe she started it after the event of Faith and the obelisk.

Trinary
April 24th, 2010, 10:08 AM
Chloe now is getting better than Wray in using people. Just using an effortless reason she was able to use Eli again to get off the ship.

Adrian_Jackson
April 24th, 2010, 10:24 AM
...How? I don't find it likely that out of all the things they grabbed in the valuable time they had before going through the gate, they grabbed books?

talyn2k1
April 24th, 2010, 10:27 AM
What makes you think that Dr. Jackson's work is in books? Someone may have managed to pick up a copy on bluray before they left.

On a related note, I find it surprising that they seem to have so many things that you wouldn't think would be a priority when evacuating a planet that was about to explode, such as razor blades, books, ipods, Eli's iPhone.

It isn't a massive bother as long as we don't start seeing plot crucial items appearing out of nowhere.

thekillman
April 24th, 2010, 10:32 AM
actually we can assume that a lot of stuff was brought with them which was only found out later. it's not priority, it was simply around. eli had a phone with him.

besides, Jackson physically stores stuff. it's possible a more up to date person digitalised it. in fact, considering his role in the program, i bet all of his work is now available digitally and used for reference and research.


besides, we have really small data storage devices. with crystal tech, it's even better. they could've brought along exabytes of data. most of the engineers probably brought laptops with their research, and someone must've grabbed some data storage crystals. it's possible crystals with relevant research were present in the gateroom for the expedition that would otherwise have gone there.

JustAnotherVoice
April 24th, 2010, 10:35 AM
Chloe now is getting better than Wray in using people. Just using an effortless reason she was able to use Eli again to get off the ship.

I think you're reading too much into it. The way Young laughed it off suggests to me he's just letting the kiddies out to play.

Targust
April 24th, 2010, 10:38 AM
...How? I don't find it likely that out of all the things they grabbed in the valuable time they had before going through the gate, they grabbed books?

I don't think Chloe actually read the works of Dr. Jackson, I think that was her attempt at levity, since Eli didn't throw in a gratuitous Star Trek comment. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/phil/phil_44.gif

JustAnotherVoice
April 24th, 2010, 10:46 AM
Being a senator's aide, she probably had a lot of Jackson's work on a removable HDD and in her travel bag. I'm sure all of SG-1's exploits (mission reports from all members) were required reading if you're trying to spend a billion or two of your taxpayer's money on some black ops facility. Having the academic history of one of the most important figures in the program on hand wouldn't hurt either. I'm sure she would have thoroughly researched Carter's academic record too, in addition to the likes of Makay, Lee, Felger, and would have copies of their works tucked away.

If she were any good at her job, she would have been prepared, especially for a long 6 month trip. The information could be useful for a number of reasons to a politico, especially when touring a facility.

MattSilver 3k
April 24th, 2010, 10:47 AM
I think you're reading too much into it. The way Young laughed it off suggests to me he's just letting the kiddies out to play.

Kinda got the same vibe. If they want to help out on a not-very-important little ruin hunting, why the hell not?

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 10:50 AM
If she becomes a super soldier or a super scientist, it would be unrealistic and boring.

It was nice of her to take the initiative to read some of the Jackson writings. Maybe she started it after the event of Faith and the obelisk.

I agree.

Commander Zelix
April 24th, 2010, 11:07 AM
I have this fanboy idea that maybe Chloe started to read Daniel's writings after the event in Faith and the Obelisk. She still somehow reaching for that planet.

Shan Bruce Lee
April 24th, 2010, 11:09 AM
Being a senator's aide, she probably had a lot of Jackson's work on a removable HDD and in her travel bag. I'm sure all of SG-1's exploits (mission reports from all members) were required reading if you're trying to spend a billion or two of your taxpayer's money on some black ops facility. Having the academic history of one of the most important figures in the program on hand wouldn't hurt either. I'm sure she would have thoroughly researched Carter's academic record too, in addition to the likes of Makay, Lee, Felger, and would have copies of their works tucked away.

If she were any good at her job, she would have been prepared, especially for a long 6 month trip. The information could be useful for a number of reasons to a politico, especially when touring a facility.

You sure you wanna throw Felger's name in there? :)

OutandAboot
April 24th, 2010, 11:11 AM
I thought it were pretty clear that she didn't. She and Eli only told Young she did because they wanted to come along.

JustAnotherVoice
April 24th, 2010, 11:12 AM
You sure you wanna throw Felger's name in there? :)

For all the good, you have to take the bad. Isn't screwing up the entire gate system with Avenger a big milestone in the Stargate Program's history? :p

Kaiphantom
April 24th, 2010, 11:15 AM
If she becomes a super soldier or a super scientist, it would be unrealistic and boring.

It was nice of her to take the initiative to read some of the Jackson writings. Maybe she started it after the event of Faith and the obelisk.

Should make it clear that we're not sure if she actually read the notes or not. Eli could have been bluffing. I'd like at least one scene showing that she's been doing that. After all, if people are going to assume that Scott and Chloe only had sex once, because the show didn't actually show any other times, then we have to assume that she hasn't read those notes because the show hasn't shown it.

Kaiphantom
April 24th, 2010, 11:20 AM
She hasn't been studying Dr. Jackson's notes. She's probably got at least a passing familiarity with the basics of the stargate program, but no real particulars. Given what we've seen so far, she's not that good of a political, and doesn't seem to think ahead.

Now, Dr. Jackson's notes could have been on a CD or DVD that was part of the stuff grabbed. Or on an HDD. But we haven't been shown that Chloe has actually been reading them, so it hasn't happened. Note also, that the supplies they took were mostly for the expedition that would have gone. It looked like they were taking a cue from Atlantis, and having a bunch of stuff ready and handy, in case they had to go suddenly (ie, only get one shot at it).

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 11:22 AM
I certainly hope (though we haven't been shown yet) that Chloe actually is doing this. I really wouldn't mind if her character went this route. As I've said before, I think it'd be really interesting to see her growth and progression as she learns about a specific topic or skill...whatever that might be.

Go Chloe! :)

Puddle-Jumper
April 24th, 2010, 11:23 AM
As plenty of people have stated Danny boys work is key to the stargate program so it makes sense that theres plenty of digital copies of it lying around Icarus, the SGC, pentagon, Alpha site etc.. So one of them could easily have been brought through... Maybe tptb are setting up Chloe to become useful in that capacity? Like she studies his work and tries her hand at Daniel work (i.e. archaeology, figuring out alien languages, wearing cool glasses, hooking up with alien women left right and center)

The_Asgard_live
April 24th, 2010, 11:24 AM
Kinda got the same vibe. If they want to help out on a not-very-important little ruin hunting, why the hell not?
Chloe, yeah, but Eli? If Rush is down maybe out, its dumb to let Eli off the ship.

MattSilver 3k
April 24th, 2010, 11:28 AM
Chloe, yeah, but Eli? If Rush is down maybe out, its dumb to let Eli off the ship.

True fact. I kinda forget how useful Eli is half the time. Maybe we'll just chalk it up to plot contrivance or freelancer flub.

JustAnotherVoice
April 24th, 2010, 11:39 AM
She hasn't been studying Dr. Jackson's notes. She's probably got at least a passing familiarity with the basics of the stargate program, but no real particulars. Given what we've seen so far, she's not that good of a political, and doesn't seem to think ahead.


Given how much her father/boss invested in Icarus, I would be shocked if she only had a passing familiarity with the Stargate Program. As a senator's aide, she's more than just a personal assistant; her duties would include fact checking and speech writing/editing, tasks that would need more than a quick glance at a timeline. While she wouldn't be expected to know every detail, I would fully expect her to be as read in as Scott and other low level officers in the SGC, knowing every key event in the history of the program, as well as specifics surrounding the Icarus project and having ready access to a much more detailed history "just in case".

While I wouldn't expect Chloe to have read Jackson's books, I would expect she would have seen every mission report on anything remotely related to Icarus, which would include reports on the history of the Ancients.

JustAnotherVoice
April 24th, 2010, 11:42 AM
True fact. I kinda forget how useful Eli is half the time. Maybe we'll just chalk it up to plot contrivance or freelancer flub.

Or it could have been Eli's day off. They have to have down time, right? (Well, everyone except the power trio.)

To be fair, Young never really expected that they would do anything silly like explore underground catacombs, then do something even sillier like shoot at an alien spider rather than just get away from it.

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 11:43 AM
As plenty of people have stated Danny boys work is key to the stargate program so it makes sense that theres plenty of digital copies of it lying around Icarus, the SGC, pentagon, Alpha site etc.. So one of them could easily have been brought through... Maybe tptb are setting up Chloe to become useful in that capacity? Like she studies his work and tries her hand at Daniel work (i.e. archaeology, figuring out alien languages, wearing cool glasses, hooking up with alien women left right and center)

These two, especially. :cool:

Starsaber
April 24th, 2010, 12:09 PM
Are you serious?

She just said that stuff to get off the ship.

I might agree with you if it was just the "Stratification" thing on the ship, but her "nerd moment" by the stairs to the catacombs makes me think she probably has reviewed at least some of Daniel's notes.

I wouldn't buy her becoming a full-fledged Daniel (or even Jonas), but it's nice that she's at least looking for something she can do to help.

kymeric
April 24th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Nobody has paper books anymore, Libraries are going out of buisness cuz everythings available for free on the internet. Rush and the techie guys absolutely woulda had it on their flashdrives on their keychains.

Replicator Todd
April 24th, 2010, 12:12 PM
I liked Chloe when she was this so-called "useless" too, but yes, she is useful.

Replicator Todd
April 24th, 2010, 12:13 PM
Stratification fools! :p

Egle01
April 24th, 2010, 12:48 PM
Loved Chloe and her nerd moment. :D:D

But all she had been studying was Jackson's videos? Or what else could there be?

Commander Zelix
April 24th, 2010, 12:53 PM
Loved Chloe and her nerd moment. :D:D

But all she had been studying was Jackson's videos? Or what else could there be?
As said many times, its easy to think that the Icarus crew had Daniel Jackson writings on files. Since they were working on an Ancient intensive projects. They probably grabbed it when they escaped the Icarus base along with many other things.

Avenger
April 24th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Given her nerd moment about advanced races using stone buildings to hide advanced technologies, she was reading up on something about the gate program. Whether that was Jackson's work specifically or just general gate program stuff is up for question. Though I would have to say that if she had been studying Jackson's work, she ought to have been able to come up with something better than stratification.

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 01:30 PM
As said many times, its easy to think that the Icarus crew had Daniel Jackson writings on files. Since they were working on an Ancient intensive projects. They probably grabbed it when they escaped the Icarus base along with many other things.

Additionally, she was using one of those mini-laptops while sitting at the table before she goes and talks to Eli. If there are digital files of Daniel's work (as there most likely are) then she might likely have them given her position working with her father.

I'm sort of hoping Chloe does go this way as a character, but I'm open to anything as long as it's interesting. :)

Egle01
April 24th, 2010, 01:52 PM
I'm sort of hoping Chloe does go this way as a character, but I'm open to anything as long as it's interesting. :)I'm not hoping she becomes mini-clone of Daniel. Anything else to make her useful, sure. :)

wingsabre
April 24th, 2010, 02:03 PM
Maybe they created an iPhone app to translate Ancient, based on Danial Jackson's work.

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 02:06 PM
Maybe they created an iPhone app to translate Ancient, based on Danial Jackson's work.

*gasp* There's an app for that? :eek:

Blackhole
April 24th, 2010, 02:20 PM
I think a lot of people are reading far too much into her Daniel Jackson comment. It was an attempt at levity and to show that Eli and she had mended fences. SGU has limited personnel and people are going to want to get off the ship. Young probably didn't think she would get in the way and saw no harm in her going along. Sending a true archeologist with the team would have made good sense if one was available. Beside she is a major character, how are they going to get her involved in the story if she stays on the ship.

KEK
April 24th, 2010, 02:30 PM
I'm not sure I like it, seems a bit too easy, shame they hadn't mentioned that she'd been reading up on things earlier.

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 02:40 PM
I'm not sure I like it, seems a bit to easy, shame they hadn't mentioned that she'd been reading up on things earlier.

Maybe she just started reading up, assuming she even has? There's no reason she needs to be considered at or even near Dr. Jackson's level at the moment to have useful knowledge.

Kaiphantom
April 24th, 2010, 02:47 PM
Especially when most of Dr. Jackson's works are mostly pointless this far out of the milky way. They are dealing with the unknown. She'd need more of the basic underpinnings of archaeology, rather than Jackson's notes. Hell, her political science studies would be more useful than Daniel's notes.

garhkal
April 24th, 2010, 03:38 PM
Why does everyone forget Young's line in Air when he talks about wanting everyone to do their part and step up so he can see what they're made of?

Very true, an if she DOES the part well, i would say she has most definatly stepped up to the plate. THOUGH i would like to know how the heck she is reading Dr jacksons notes from all the way out there.


What makes you think that Dr. Jackson's work is in books? Someone may have managed to pick up a copy on bluray before they left.

I seriously doubt Dr jacksons notes have been scaned onto a blue ray. Remember season 6 Quin was reading his notes in the books still. BUT i would grant you they might have scanned some into a computer since then.


Being a senator's aide, she probably had a lot of Jackson's work on a removable HDD and in her travel bag.

Since she was ONLY an aid and not the senator himself, i cannot see them letting his work get to her that easily.




I have this fanboy idea that maybe Chloe started to read Daniel's writings after the event in Faith and the Obelisk. She still somehow reaching for that planet.



Which again brings up the point of how? Is she consistently stoning back to earth to read the notes in his massive archive of books?


As plenty of people have stated Danny boys work is key to the stargate program so it makes sense that theres plenty of digital copies of it lying around Icarus, the SGC, pentagon, Alpha site etc.. So one of them could easily have been brought through.

And when have they put his stuff into digital form? Even back when they were searching for the lost city (not that far back) he still had most if not all of his work in pads..


Nobody has paper books anymore

I have most of my stuff still in paper. Most of the teachers i know keep their notes in their pads.. I know lots of others who have not 'digitized' everything. So that is NOT a certainty..

Coronach
April 24th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Since she was ONLY an aid and not the senator himself, i cannot see them letting his work get to her that easily.

Aides often know more in-depth knowledge on a given subject than the politicians themselves. The senator (by nature of being a senator) would have had a wide array of things to do each day, and couldn't possibly have been expected to know this all himself. Look at US senators from a real-life standpoint, and ask yourself if they really know in-depth knowledge about each issues of if they are just briefed on things.

Hell, look at the president. He has a cabinet and many, many advisers for a reason.

Aides exist for this very purpose.


Which again brings up the point of how? Is she consistently stoning back to earth to read the notes in his massive archive of books?

She has a mini-laptop (not sure what these are called exactly), and you can see her with it in her first scene in "Human". If they're digitized (which I'd imagine they are), she likely has them.

undeadly
April 24th, 2010, 08:50 PM
I think she has been actually reading on the SG program, but Eli and Young didn't know it was true in Destiny.
This is why they are shocked when she actually has something useful to say.

thekillman
April 25th, 2010, 06:44 AM
of course Chloe has been studying some of the stuff. she doesn't have to be an expert. but really if she lied, how happy would Young be when he found out? next time they gate to a planet she's thrown through, naked *they can use the clothes* and without supplies.

also we don't know the extent of information they have on the Destiny. but since she said she studied ancient history, there has to be some study prior to coming to Icarus.

The Swarm
April 25th, 2010, 08:44 AM
Annnnnnd again with the Chloe bashing... even when she is trying to learn something useful by studdying Dr. Jackson's notes.

Honestly, im starting to think that Chloe became the fans punching bag, people wouldnt like her even if she became a super woman.

jelgate
April 25th, 2010, 12:37 PM
Annnnnnd again with the Chloe bashing... even when she is trying to learn something useful by studdying Dr. Jackson's notes.

Honestly, im starting to think that Chloe became the fans punching bag, people wouldnt like her even if she became a super woman.Chloe kind of reminds me of Keller from SGA. She is damned if she does and damn if she doesn't, A lot has to do with Chlloe's role is something unique we haven't seen on Stargate before

garhkal
April 25th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Aides often know more in-depth knowledge on a given subject than the politicians themselves. The senator (by nature of being a senator) would have had a wide array of things to do each day, and couldn't possibly have been expected to know this all himself. Look at US senators from a real-life standpoint, and ask yourself if they really know in-depth knowledge about each issues of if they are just briefed on things.

Hell, look at the president. He has a cabinet and many, many advisers for a reason.

Aides exist for this very purpose.



She has a mini-laptop (not sure what these are called exactly), and you can see her with it in her first scene in "Human". If they're digitized (which I'd imagine they are), she likely has them.

I'll give ya that. BUT i still cannot see them digitizing all daniels work.

Avenger
April 25th, 2010, 04:02 PM
Why not? Digitizing it and making it available on a base computer would be easy enough to do and possibly help with research.

the fifth man
April 25th, 2010, 07:10 PM
I think it is great that Chloe has taken it upon herself to try and be more helpful to the Destiny crew. Daniel Jackson did some amazing work, and her learning about some of it could really help them in certain situations.

Pharaoh Atem
April 25th, 2010, 07:12 PM
Chloe kind of reminds me of Keller from SGA. She is damned if she does and damn if she doesn't, A lot has to do with Chlloe's role is something unique we haven't seen on Stargate before

exaclty chole can't do anything right in fandoms eyes. but if she became the destiny's AI i think everyone wou.d be happy.

Commander Zelix
April 25th, 2010, 07:22 PM
exaclty chole can't do anything right in fandoms eyes. but if she became the destiny's AI i think everyone wou.d be happy.
Yep, that would be pretty cool. :)

Pharaoh Atem
April 25th, 2010, 07:27 PM
Yep, that would be pretty cool. :)

we know destiny can read the information from the seeder ships. why not make a interactive system once rush gets the master code.

vszulc
April 25th, 2010, 10:41 PM
Meh, I like Chloe though I preferred Keller. Guess I'm an exception in that respect.
And it was nice to see her a little more useful than usually, though the whole "Oh, why I've been studying Daniel Jacksons work" came outta nowhere.

I wish they would have shown where and how. As other people already mentioned, the whole deal seemed kinda too convenient. They just happen to have Daniel Jacksons work laying around on thumbdrives what?!? He made an Ancient archeology 101 pdf?

I don't think people know how academics work. They often keep their work to themselves, on notepads like we've seen Jackson do it many times. And even IF it was digitized, it wouldn't make much sense to anybody but Jackson himself.

pipi
April 26th, 2010, 02:58 AM
Even if Chloe's claims of being a deligent student instead of enjoying bed time pleasures is true, she's needs to actually demonstrate some usefullness instead of just waving a Daniel Jackson degree around. How about reading and writing Ancient; would be a good skill to have.

JustAnotherVoice
April 26th, 2010, 03:09 AM
How about reading and writing Ancient; would be a good skill to have.

Debatable, since everything else on the ship would require knowledge of mechanical/electrical engineering or physics, at least until they can crack the code; but even then theres a difference between being able to read it and understanding what she is being presented with.

Trinary
April 26th, 2010, 03:52 AM
Would it possible all of this Chloe learn Dr. Jackson thing is just Rush imagination what she capable of? Probably Rush still strapped on the chair. The imaginary scene has extends to the current ship surrounding re-construction.

SupremeLegate
April 26th, 2010, 06:05 AM
I posted this in the Overall Chloe Discussion (http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/74249-Overall-Chloe-discussion/page6), but as it applies I will post this except here.



YOUNG (to Scott and Greer): You guys gear up.

SCOTT: Yeah.

WALLACE: I'd like to go.

ARMSTRONG: Me too.

(Everyone stops and turns to look at her. She looks awkward, realizing she has no good reason to go. Eli jumps to her rescue.)

WALLACE: Chloe has been studying all of Doctor Jackson's work.


Chloe wants to go, knows she has no good reason to go, and Eli tries to help by saying she has been studying Daniel’s notes.



YOUNG (not believing it for a moment): Really?

SCOTT (equally dubious): You have?


There not buying.



YOUNG: I don't have a problem with either of you going. I never said I did. (He looks at Scott.) Just be careful.


And the Young points out that he has no problem with her going even if she has no beneficial skills. As Chloe herself has said “Everyone has to pitch in and do their share”

Tuvok
April 26th, 2010, 07:02 AM
political science...im sure that would help you with negotiations and diplomacy and stuff

Hmmmm...unlike the Pegusus Galaxy I can't really imagine most of the locals being able to speak English. They can however send the transmission 'Surrender" prior to trying to kill us however.

carmencatalina
April 26th, 2010, 10:52 AM
I don't think people know how academics work. They often keep their work to themselves, on notepads like we've seen Jackson do it many times. And even IF it was digitized, it wouldn't make much sense to anybody but Jackson himself.

Um, no, not really. Things are a bit different because Jackson works on classified information, but the whole idea behind research is to make your finding available to the larger scientific/scholarly/academic community. In Jackson's case, it would be those with the right clearance, of course.

Keeping stuff to yourself? Only if you are trying to beat another lab to the publication. And then, once published, everybody has at it. In fact, you are supposed to keep your research notes such that others can re-verify your findings. Hence peer review.

The_Asgard_live
April 26th, 2010, 11:02 AM
Um, no, not really. Things are a bit different because Jackson works on classified information, but the whole idea behind research is to make your finding available to the larger scientific/scholarly/academic community. In Jackson's case, it would be those with the right clearance, of course.

Keeping stuff to yourself? Only if you are trying to beat another lab to the publication. And then, once published, everybody has at it. In fact, you are supposed to keep your research notes such that others can re-verify your findings. Hence peer review.
That is how it is supposed to work, but not necessarily the way it does.

Meshakhad
April 26th, 2010, 11:15 AM
Taking Eli actually made some sense. His Ancient is better than almost anyone except Rush.

As for Chloe studying Dr. Jackson's notes, I thought at first that she and Eli had made that up. But she did spout that line about finding advanced technology in primitive-looking ruins. And the idea that someone had a digital copy of Jackson's notes on a laptop is quite plausible. I wouldn't be surprised if digital copies of Jackson's notes were standard issue for human outposts, as well as being contained in the databanks of our warships.

My guess is that Chloe has studied Jackson's notes, but not very much - like, she spent three hours on it yesterday, the first of which was spent learning the organization scheme.

I'd like Chloe to try and fill the archaeologist role. She won't become Jonas Quinn - he was an archaeologist on Kelowna before joining the SGC - but she could become very good at it if she tried.

JustAnotherVoice
April 26th, 2010, 11:31 AM
Taking Eli actually made some sense. His Ancient is better than almost anyone except Rush.

Conjecture. We can't make that claim because we don't have all the facts. The only other scientist whose linguistic abilities we know of is the one who translated the shuttle controls, and even then, getting two buttons mixed up is an easy mistake in a high pressure situation. We've seen plenty of others working with ancient tech, Brody, Park, Franklin etc, but they don't get the screentime to determine their ability in Ancient. If anything, they should all have a much stronger grasp of Ancient than Eli, since they've been working on it for more than 6 months.

Meshakhad
April 26th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Conjecture. We can't make that claim because we don't have all the facts. The only other scientist whose linguistic abilities we know of is the one who translated the shuttle controls, and even then, getting two buttons mixed up is an easy mistake in a high pressure situation. We've seen plenty of others working with ancient tech, Brody, Park, Franklin etc, but they don't get the screentime to determine their ability in Ancient. If anything, they should all have a much stronger grasp of Ancient than Eli, since they've been working on it for more than 6 months.

My justification is that Eli is simply gifted, and while he knew less Ancient than they did before he came on board, he's learned it so well that he's better than they are. My evidence is that Eli is also far more proficient with Ancient technology than anyone except Rush, to the point that when Rush was left behind, Young apparently made Eli his replacement.

JustAnotherVoice
April 26th, 2010, 02:09 PM
My justification is that Eli is simply gifted, and while he knew less Ancient than they did before he came on board, he's learned it so well that he's better than they are. My evidence is that Eli is also far more proficient with Ancient technology than anyone except Rush, to the point that when Rush was left behind, Young apparently made Eli his replacement.

Again, it's conjecture that Eli is more proficient in Ancient tech. He's probably much more gifted in fields such as theoretical physics and mathematics than an electrical engineer, botanist, chemist etc, but the only Ancient tech that he plays with are his kinos. We don't ever see him play around with energy weapons, power conduits, or even take a kino apart, etc. We see him reading numbers out, and a couple of computer overrides, but again, those tasks are being done by any scientist who is tasked with trying to get into the database.

His Ancient (language) skills may have improved dramatically since arriving on Icarus, but nothing has been shown to say that his understanding of the language is greater than any of the other scientists.

As for being Rush's heir apparent, Young quite clearly stated in an earlier episode, that he needed to know who he could trust, something he told Eli. Given how the recurring (male) scientists have stated that they don't trust the military (Water), would you expect Young to pick a trouble maker as his man in the core?

Same goes for his relationship with Rush. Rush sees his potential in similar fields of study, and he believes Eli has the potential to be more gifted than guys like Volker or Brody. Rush would probably explain his dismissal of most other scientists along the lines of "why bother with the chaff when all you really want is the wheat?"

AVFan
April 26th, 2010, 03:12 PM
What I don't understand is why everyone else on the ship tolerates Chloe. As far as we can tell, she has no duties aboard the ship, yet she eats the food and drinks the water. It goes back to the old story about the little red hen... (Spoilered for size)

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who lived on a farm . She was friends with a lazy dog (*cough* Chloe *cough*), a sleepy cat, and a noisy yellow duck .

One day the little red hen found some seeds on the ground. The little red hen had an idea. She would plant the seeds .
The little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me plant the seeds ?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen planted the seeds all by herself.

When the seeds had grown, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me cut the wheat ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen cut the wheat all by herself.

When all the wheat was cut, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen brought the wheat to the mill all by herself, ground the wheat into flour , and carried the heavy sack of flour back to the farm .

The tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me bake the bread ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen baked the bread all by herself.

When the bread was finished, the tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me eat the bread ?"
"I will," barked the lazy dog .
"I will," purred the sleepy cat .
"I will," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"No!" said the little red hen . "I will." And the little red hen ate the bread all by herself.
Guess what? You do no work, you get no food. Why she's allowed to trounce around the ship without a duty in the world is beyond me.

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 03:32 PM
What I don't understand is why everyone else on the ship tolerates Chloe. As far as we can tell, she has no duties aboard the ship, yet she eats the food and drinks the water. It goes back to the old story about the little red hen... (Spoilered for size)

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who lived on a farm . She was friends with a lazy dog (*cough* Chloe *cough*), a sleepy cat, and a noisy yellow duck .

One day the little red hen found some seeds on the ground. The little red hen had an idea. She would plant the seeds .
The little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me plant the seeds ?"

"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen planted the seeds all by herself.

When the seeds had grown, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me cut the wheat ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen cut the wheat all by herself.

When all the wheat was cut, the little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me take the wheat to the mill to be ground into flour ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen brought the wheat to the mill all by herself, ground the wheat into flour , and carried the heavy sack of flour back to the farm .

The tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me bake the bread ?"
"Not I," barked the lazy dog .
"Not I," purred the sleepy cat .
"Not I," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"Then I will," said the little red hen . So the little red hen baked the bread all by herself.

When the bread was finished, the tired little red hen asked her friends, "Who will help me eat the bread ?"
"I will," barked the lazy dog .
"I will," purred the sleepy cat .
"I will," quacked the noisy yellow duck .

"No!" said the little red hen . "I will." And the little red hen ate the bread all by herself.
Guess what? You do no work, you get no food. Why she's allowed to trounce around the ship without a duty in the world is beyond me.

Cool story, bro. :D

Of course, Chloe HAS helped out when she's been asked to (example: Young asking for her help in "Justice). She's also offered help multiple times (i.e. "Time", "Faith" and "Human").

Just because you may not think she's doing a good enough (more like interesting enough, amirite?) job doesn't mean she is doing nothing.

AVFan
April 26th, 2010, 03:53 PM
Cool story, bro. :D

Of course, Chloe HAS helped out when she's been asked to (example: Young asking for her help in "Justice). She's also offered help multiple times (i.e. "Time", "Faith" and "Human").

Just because you may not think she's doing a good enough (more like interesting enough, amirite?) job doesn't mean she is doing nothing.
Sure, she has offered herself in various ways throughout the series (her body to switch out with in Space, lawyer in Justice.. I think maybe there have been other times? I wouldn't call volunteering to go offworld in Human a duty. She wanted a vacation). But she has no day-to-day duties as far as we can tell, so she has been of help twice in the three months they've been stranded on Destiny?

Even if we take the other examples that I wouldn't consider to be duties, that's only about 5 times that she has helped. That wouldn't fly with me, and I wouldn't think it would with Young either. Go help in the botany lab. Be on KP duty sometimes. Help TJ with medical stuff. Go learn a thing or two about firearms. Do SOMETHING that is beneficial to the rest of the crew. It seems like all she does is mope around the ship.

I'm trying to like Chloe, I really am. But laziness in the face of a crisis is intolerable IMO. Who knows, maybe she'll prove useful while they're stuck on the planet.

Oh, and btw, I liked the story too. I thought it fitting. :D

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 04:09 PM
Sure, she has offered herself in various ways throughout the series (her body to switch out with in Space, lawyer in Justice.. I think maybe there have been other times? I wouldn't call volunteering to go offworld in Human a duty. She wanted a vacation).

So something has to be considered a duty in order to be considered pitching in and doing one's share? And let's assume for a moment that she did want a "vacation" (even though she had just been off-world in "Faith" for a month straight), why does that matter? A good/helpful act doesn't cease to be such because one's motivations aren't entirely selfless.

The other ones' I was referring to:

"Time"--> "Everyone has to pitch in and do their share."
"Faith"--> Being proactive and asking Lt. Scott what group she was assigned to and what her duties would be. She knew she would have to help and contribute and that it'd be a full month of living in relatively harsher conditions than those of the Destiny. Of course, we can't attribute this as a good thing for Chloe, because, after all, she was just being selfish and wanted to be around Lt. Scott. *sigh*


Even if we take the other examples that I wouldn't consider to be duties, that's only about 5 times that she has helped. That wouldn't fly with me, and I wouldn't think it would with Young either. Go help in the botany lab. Be on KP duty sometimes. Help TJ with medical stuff. Go learn a thing or two about firearms. Do SOMETHING that is beneficial to the rest of the crew. It seems like all she does is mope around the ship.

This I sort of agree with, except you're taking it to hyperbole as most people tend to do. We've seen Chloe mope once in "Darkness" when talking about her uselessness. One might try to argue that the beginning of "Divided" was her moping, but considering her actions in the rest of the episode I'd disagree.


Oh, and btw, I liked the story too. I thought it fitting. :D

The chicken story? Yeah, it is cool with a decent moral...but not analogous given all the other animals don't get the reward because they didn't help when they were asked to. That is them being purposefully unhelpful.

Chloe has never been shown to refuse to help someone who asks for it. I get what point you were trying to make, but the analogy is not exactly correct in the way you were hoping it'd be. :S

Eternal Density
April 26th, 2010, 04:32 PM
exaclty chole can't do anything right in fandoms eyes. but if she became the destiny's AI i think everyone wou.d be happy.Better her than Dr Lam :P

garhkal
April 26th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Why not? Digitizing it and making it available on a base computer would be easy enough to do and possibly help with research.

Being how i have come to see daniel i just don't see him as wanting it all digitized.

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Being how i have come to see daniel i just don't see him as wanting it all digitized.

Really? I can't think of anything I (personally) have learned about Daniel that would suggest this. If anything, he's a huge proponent of knowledge, research, and knowing the truth behind things. There's no better way to spread knowledge and educate people than to make said knowledge available to the greatest number of people.

Digital media is far and away a more effective way of making information available than a printing press or any similar paper-based media.

We've mostly seen Daniel using his own written works and books, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made his information available to others through digital media. In fact, I'd be very surprised if he didn't.

Just my observations. :)

JustAnotherVoice
April 26th, 2010, 05:17 PM
Digital media is far and away a more effective way of making information available than a printing press or any similar paper-based media.

We've mostly seen Daniel using his own written works and books, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made his information available to others through digital media. In fact, I'd be very surprised if he didn't.

Just my observations. :)

Not to mention, if the books he writes/uses as reference are published, they'll be digitised anyway. Somebody's got to type it up to print out. It wouldn't surprise me either, if Daniel had digital backup copies of all of his hand written notes, given how many times he's died and lost everything he was carrying.

Gollumpus
April 26th, 2010, 05:39 PM
I wish to preface my comments by saying I am Chloe-neutral.

I'm not sure that I can get all worked up over one character who is doing the job for which she was intended. Chloe is there as "Alice". She's trying to figure out what is going on through the looking glass. That is her role on SGU, at least for now. We are supposed to look through her eyes and think of what we could do or how we could help out all while not having any appreciable skills which could assist in the group's survival. She has been written in to do a few useful things and likely as the series continues she will indeed be put in as medical assistant, perhaps she could help in the hydroponics section, or maybe Scott will teach her to be a pilot. (Hey, it could happen! :P)

What gives me pause in this series is not what Chloe is, or isn't doing, but rather what are the other approximately 60 folks (redshirts) who we haven't seen doing anything! And they supposedly have some skills (engineers, linguists, physicists, etc) which ARE useful. Let's see more redshirt activity, and if they are shown to be doing useful stuff then bash the Chloe character as you will. :)

regards,
G.

AVFan
April 26th, 2010, 05:51 PM
So something has to be considered a duty in order to be considered pitching in and doing one's share? And let's assume for a moment that she did want a "vacation" (even though she had just been off-world in "Faith" for a month straight), why does that matter? A good/helpful act doesn't cease to be such because one's motivations aren't entirely selfless. True, if she had been anyone else on board. But she doesn't have any skills that would be considered useful on an offworld recon. (On a side note, I'm not sure why no scientists went along with the away team. I would think you would want some kind of scientist along.. I wouldn't think that you would discover much with two marines, a gate tech, and a Poli-Sci major) Bringing her along brings almost no positives (besides an extra pair of eyes), and gives the military personnel one more person to try to cover if they get into trouble.



The other ones' I was referring to:

"Time"--> "Everyone has to pitch in and do their share."
"Faith"--> Being proactive and asking Lt. Scott what group she was assigned to and what her duties would be. She knew she would have to help and contribute and that it'd be a full month of living in relatively harsher conditions than those of the Destiny. Of course, we can't attribute this as a good thing for Chloe, because, after all, she was just being selfish and wanted to be around Lt. Scott. *sigh*

That would be my bad. I had already forgotten about those.



This I sort of agree with, except you're taking it to hyperbole as most people tend to do. We've seen Chloe mope once in "Darkness" when talking about her uselessness. One might try to argue that the beginning of "Divided" was her moping, but considering her actions in the rest of the episode I'd disagree.

I think that because we don't see that she has a daily job, we try to fill in the blanks with our minds and try to imagine what she does. Until we have a better idea, I think the hyperbole will continue. JMO though.


The chicken story? Yeah, it is cool with a decent moral...but not analogous given all the other animals don't get the reward because they didn't help when they were asked to. That is them being purposefully unhelpful.

Chloe has never been shown to refuse to help someone who asks for it. I get what point you were trying to make, but the analogy is not exactly correct in the way you were hoping it'd be. :SThat's true. It just reminded me of the story... It doesn't fit perfectly, but Chloe hasn't exactly proactively looked for ways to help, at least for the most part.

Anyway, I'm not trying to hate on Chloe, and she definitely doesn't deserve most of the crap that she gets from some fans, but she hasn't made herself the most likable person in the world also.

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 05:54 PM
I can agree with most of what you say, actually. I want to see Chloe develop more meaningfully as well. :)

pipi
April 26th, 2010, 06:52 PM
What gives me pause in this series is not what Chloe is, or isn't doing, but rather what are the other approximately 60 folks (redshirts) who we haven't seen doing anything! And they supposedly have some skills (engineers, linguists, physicists, etc) which ARE useful. Let's see more redshirt activity, and if they are shown to be doing useful stuff then bash the Chloe character as you will. :)
.

The planet had grass, signs of ancient civilisation and a breathable atmosphere which means there has to be water and other animal life on that planet. Isn't anyone on the ship craving some meat? 6hrs. Send two extra teams to do a 2hr trek either side of the stargate. Not everything of significance is located within sight range of a stargate. What about behind that hill or over that ridge.

-
Chloe's primary asset would be that she is a pretty girl. It's a nice to have. Imagine being jumped by some barbaric natives. If the party were all men, they'd probably be all killed on the spot ask questions later. If a girl was present, then they stand a chance to have some dialogue first, less threatening. It's a bit sexist, but that's barbarians for you.

Kaiphantom
April 26th, 2010, 07:50 PM
A good/helpful act doesn't cease to be such because one's motivations aren't entirely selfless.

Not by itself. But if every time the duties came around, I volunteered to supervise you cleaning the toilets, which entailed me standing there and watching, what would you begin to think?


"Time"--> "Everyone has to pitch in and do their share."
"Faith"--> Being proactive and asking Lt. Scott what group she was assigned to and what her duties would be. She knew she would have to help and contribute and that it'd be a full month of living in relatively harsher conditions than those of the Destiny. Of course, we can't attribute this as a good thing for Chloe, because, after all, she was just being selfish and wanted to be around Lt. Scott. *sigh*

You know very well what the problem with these are. Chloe "helps" when it gets her to a nice planet and off the ship. I don't begrudge her a vacation, but dang... most people do work between their vacations so they earn it. If we're co-workers, I'm gonna let you do most of the work, while I take all the vacations; you okay with that?


This I sort of agree with, except you're taking it to hyperbole as most people tend to do. We've seen Chloe mope once in "Darkness" when talking about her uselessness. One might try to argue that the beginning of "Divided" was her moping, but considering her actions in the rest of the episode I'd disagree.

I don't see her moping so much anymore, and I'm kinda glad for that at least. She's just not doing... anything, really. "Woe is me, I don't have anything to do... oh well, I'll just tag along to nice planets and get boys to look out for me."


The chicken story? Yeah, it is cool with a decent moral...but not analogous given all the other animals don't get the reward because they didn't help when they were asked to. That is them being purposefully unhelpful.

That is Chloe. Granted, it's not a perfect fit, but it's there all the same. She's not helping clean. She's not helping cook. She's not helping with the wounded. She's not helping repair the ship.

Is it completely all right with you that she gets to stand around doing nothing while everyone else is helping *daily* around her? Is she somehow special compared to everyone else? Why is that?

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 08:37 PM
That is Chloe. Granted, it's not a perfect fit, but it's there all the same. She's not helping clean. She's not helping cook. She's not helping with the wounded. She's not helping repair the ship.

Is it completely all right with you that she gets to stand around doing nothing while everyone else is helping *daily* around her? Is she somehow special compared to everyone else? Why is that?

On this point I can somewhat agree. I would prefer Chloe have a more concrete role. While I'd love to see her take a more Daniel Jackson-esque type role (for severe lack of a better phrase), I would like some mention of what she currently does daily aboard the ship. Maybe she spends some time studying the Ancients, which could include helping Eli and/or Rush? Maybe she spends some time helping TJ...who knows? I agree that I want to see a portrayal or at least a mention.

Then again, are you guys really saying that all you need is a mention of "Oh yeah, Chloe's off cleaning the bathrooms" every other episode in order for her to be considered a redeemed character? ;)

[EDIT] I deleted the rest of my post because I feel the above sums up my positions, as well as a few of my posts further down.

Gollumpus
April 26th, 2010, 08:41 PM
The planet had grass, signs of ancient civilisation and a breathable atmosphere which means there has to be water and other animal life on that planet. Isn't anyone on the ship craving some meat? 6hrs. Send two extra teams to do a 2hr trek either side of the stargate. Not everything of significance is located within sight range of a stargate. What about behind that hill or over that ridge.

Exactly. Why not send at least two teams? One scouts around while the other secures the area around the gate and sees if there's anything interesting nearby. They need to make more use of everyone, not just Chloe.

regards,
G.

Blackhole
April 26th, 2010, 08:55 PM
I wish to preface my comments by saying I am Chloe-neutral.

I'm not sure that I can get all worked up over one character who is doing the job for which she was intended. Chloe is there as "Alice". She's trying to figure out what is going on through the looking glass. That is her role on SGU, at least for now. We are supposed to look through her eyes and think of what we could do or how we could help out all while not having any appreciable skills which could assist in the group's survival. She has been written in to do a few useful things and likely as the series continues she will indeed be put in as medical assistant, perhaps she could help in the hydroponics section, or maybe Scott will teach her to be a pilot. (Hey, it could happen! :P)

What gives me pause in this series is not what Chloe is, or isn't doing, but rather what are the other approximately 60 folks (redshirts) who we haven't seen doing anything! And they supposedly have some skills (engineers, linguists, physicists, etc) which ARE useful. Let's see more redshirt activity, and if they are shown to be doing useful stuff then bash the Chloe character as you will. :)

regards,
G.

I agree. The show hasn't spent much air time depicting everyone's day to day activities. This doesn't mean they aren't going on, but just not shown. Chloe isn't a scientist or a solider. For all we know she could be working regularly on the more menial tasks which we never see. How about Wray, how much human resource stuff is there for her to do on a ship with 80 people? Chloe may be a little flighty but she doesn't come across as lazy. I would think she would contribute whenever she can. I would suspect Young has established a duty roster and tasks have been assigned to everyone on board.

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 08:57 PM
I agree. The show hasn't spent much air time depicting everyone's day to day activities. This doesn't mean they aren't going on, but just not shown. Chloe isn't a scientist or a solider. For all we know she could be working regularly on the more menial tasks which we never see. How about Wray, how much human resource stuff is there for her to do on a ship with 80 people? Chloe may be a little flighty but she doesn't come across as lazy. I would think she would contribute whenever she can. I would suspect Young has established a duty roster and tasks have been assigned to everyone on board.

I'd expect this too, but I don't bother arguing here on GW. I just stick to what actually happens on-screen in this regard. :P

Blackhole
April 26th, 2010, 09:01 PM
The planet had grass, signs of ancient civilisation and a breathable atmosphere which means there has to be water and other animal life on that planet. Isn't anyone on the ship craving some meat? 6hrs. Send two extra teams to do a 2hr trek either side of the stargate. Not everything of significance is located within sight range of a stargate. What about behind that hill or over that ridge.
-
Chloe's primary asset would be that she is a pretty girl. It's a nice to have. Imagine being jumped by some barbaric natives. If the party were all men, they'd probably be all killed on the spot ask questions later. If a girl was present, then they stand a chance to have some dialogue first, less threatening. It's a bit sexist, but that's barbarians for you.

They really haven't depicted any hunting. I would think that would be a given. Send some soldiers out to kill a few deer. They must have refrigeration it would keep for a long time. Although it seems the planetary stops aren't very long. Maybe hunting hasn't been practical.

AVFan
April 26th, 2010, 09:31 PM
On this point I can somewhat agree. I would prefer Chloe have a more concrete role. While I'd love to see her take a more Daniel Jackson-esque type role (for severe lack of a better phrase), I would like some mention of what she currently does daily aboard the ship. Maybe she spends some time studying the Ancients, which could include helping Eli and/or Rush? Maybe she spends some time helping TJ...who knows? I agree that I want to see a portrayal or at least a mention.
I think this is something we can all agree on. If Chloe has a daily duty, please show us. If not, please tell us that. I don't like this limbo that we've been given lol.

Coronach
April 26th, 2010, 09:37 PM
I think this is something we can all agree on. If Chloe has a daily duty, please show us. If not, please tell us that. I don't like this limbo that we've been given lol.

Yeah...while I take the same stance that Blackhole does, it apparently would be useful if this were addressed.

pipi
April 26th, 2010, 10:40 PM
They really haven't depicted any hunting. I would think that would be a given. Send some soldiers out to kill a few deer. They must have refrigeration it would keep for a long time. Although it seems the planetary stops aren't very long. Maybe hunting hasn't been practical.

That would make a nice drama. Eli: Oh it's a little baby cute something, Scott goes shoot it!, Chloe: no it's too cute, Greer: Steak! *bang*

Meshakhad
April 27th, 2010, 12:15 AM
That would make a nice drama. Eli: Oh it's a little baby cute something, Scott goes shoot it!, Chloe: no it's too cute, Greer: Steak! *bang*

I don't think there's a single person on Destiny that wouldn't consider any animal a potential food source.

Too bad Senator Armstrong was from California. If he was from, say, Montana, we could get this:

Eli: Oh, it's a cute little baby something.
Scott: I don't know...
Chloe: *whispering* Greer, give me your rifle.
Eli: *coos*
*GUNSHOT*
Eli sees Chloe holding a smoking rifle.
Chloe: My father was the senior Senator from Montana.

FallenAngelII
April 27th, 2010, 07:05 AM
Are you serious?

She just said that stuff to get off the ship.
I agree with this assessment. The way Eli and Chloe said it, the way they looked when they said it, it all screamed "We're lying through our teeth!". The fact that she might have read some files to know enough to ramble on about the whole advanced-civilizations-living-in-huts thing later on doesn't mean that she is actually, you know, throwing herself into studying Daniel's work.

Besides, seeing as how Eli's been, you know ignoring Chloe and kept her at arm's length ever since "Divided", how would he even know she was studying Daniel's work (and it must be a new development because if she's been doing it for a while, they wouldn't have waited until now to tell Young in order to get her off the ship)?

IMO, they were just making it up to get her off the ship.

FallenAngelII
April 27th, 2010, 07:11 AM
They really haven't depicted any hunting. I would think that would be a given. Send some soldiers out to kill a few deer. They must have refrigeration it would keep for a long time. Although it seems the planetary stops aren't very long. Maybe hunting hasn't been practical.
Produce generally last longer than meat and. Also, because produce does not have the encumbrance of bones to weigh it down, you generally get more food out of 1 kilogram/2.25 lbs of produced than from the same amount of "meat". Say you bag a 56 kg/126 lbs almost-baby-deer and you carry it back on the ship (since gutting it in place would take up too much valuable time). Once you remove all of the bones, inedible intestines, antlers, etc., you'll be left with, oh, say, 25 kg/56.25 lbs worth of meat (I just made that number up). If you instead bring aboard 56 kgs/126 lbs of fruits and vegetables, once you remove the peels and stuff, you'll still have a good 50 kg/112.5 lbs worth of food.

And, as you've touched upon, produce needs not be hunted. No need to waste time chasing, shooting at (wasting valuable ammunition) and killing prey when you could just waltz up to a bush and pick its berries (unless it's a carnivorous bush).

It's simply infinitely more practical to live on produce than on meat.

thekillman
April 27th, 2010, 07:44 AM
except that you can't live on produce alone. also meat has a much higher energy density.

carmencatalina
April 27th, 2010, 07:48 AM
except that you can't live on produce alone. also meat has a much higher energy density.

You can as long as you have some legume-like produce. But you are right about the energy - you have to eat a lot less meat to get the same number of calories.

Coronach
April 27th, 2010, 07:51 AM
Speaking of food sources from alien planets, I think it'd be pretty sweet if SGU brought up the idea of chemical chirality. It's an interesting concept that not only do we take for granted, but could actually be a significant concern on a planet other than our own.

Okay...back to Chloe discussions. :)

wargrafix
April 27th, 2010, 07:51 AM
she is still the "wah, wah" character.

JustAnotherVoice
April 27th, 2010, 08:14 AM
Produce generally last longer than meat and. Also, because produce does not have the encumbrance of bones to weigh it down, you generally get more food out of 1 kilogram/2.25 lbs of produced than from the same amount of "meat". Say you bag a 56 kg/126 lbs almost-baby-deer and you carry it back on the ship (since gutting it in place would take up too much valuable time). Once you remove all of the bones, inedible intestines, antlers, etc., you'll be left with, oh, say, 25 kg/56.25 lbs worth of meat (I just made that number up). If you instead bring aboard 56 kgs/126 lbs of fruits and vegetables, once you remove the peels and stuff, you'll still have a good 50 kg/112.5 lbs worth of food.

And, as you've touched upon, produce needs not be hunted. No need to waste time chasing, shooting at (wasting valuable ammunition) and killing prey when you could just waltz up to a bush and pick its berries (unless it's a carnivorous bush).

It's simply infinitely more practical to live on produce than on meat.

I would question the practicality of either over the other as well as one having a longer shelf life than the other. Unrefridgerated, both have a relatively short life span (as long as the meat isn't minced, but that isn't an issue), and the difference is probably days, rather than weeks.

Finding 50kg of edible vegetation is going to be an issue no matter where they are, unless they happen to gate into a natual grove of fruit trees or something similar. Uncultivated land generally doesn't offer a lot of food, unless they happen to be very lucky or they spend a lot of time exploring and foraging. What if the fruit/veg they find is similar to cucumbers, which is mostly water with very little (relative) nutritional value?

Mind you, hunting for large game has the same drawbacks, but if you happen to come across one you can kill easily, you're not only getting the meat (muscle), you're also getting the offal (intestines, tongues, stomachs etc are all edible if cleaned and cooked properly) hide (all sorts of uses in that alone), the bones (you can eat the marrow or boil them up with the less palettable offal into a broth, which could potentially last a lot longer than a few kilos of vegetables), potential tools (antlers etc) and cooked animal blood is a delicacy that goes back as far as man. Small animals (the size of rabbits) offer the same things too, but obviously in smaller quantities, so YMMV as to whether they're worth the effort.

AVFan
April 27th, 2010, 09:11 AM
I would question the practicality of either over the other as well as one having a longer shelf life than the other. Unrefridgerated, both have a relatively short life span (as long as the meat isn't minced, but that isn't an issue), and the difference is probably days, rather than weeks.

Finding 50kg of edible vegetation is going to be an issue no matter where they are, unless they happen to gate into a natual grove of fruit trees or something similar. Uncultivated land generally doesn't offer a lot of food, unless they happen to be very lucky or they spend a lot of time exploring and foraging. What if the fruit/veg they find is similar to cucumbers, which is mostly water with very little (relative) nutritional value?

Mind you, hunting for large game has the same drawbacks, but if you happen to come across one you can kill easily, you're not only getting the meat (muscle), you're also getting the offal (intestines, tongues, stomachs etc are all edible if cleaned and cooked properly) hide (all sorts of uses in that alone), the bones (you can eat the marrow or boil them up with the less palettable offal into a broth, which could potentially last a lot longer than a few kilos of vegetables), potential tools (antlers etc) and cooked animal blood is a delicacy that goes back as far as man. Small animals (the size of rabbits) offer the same things too, but obviously in smaller quantities, so YMMV as to whether they're worth the effort.

Well refrigeration definitely isn't a problem, as there are still large areas of the ship without atmosphere.

And the matter of limited amounts of bullets is a problem.. They would have to hunt with knives and other sharp objects so that they don't waste ammo on something that's not trying to kill them.

JustAnotherVoice
April 27th, 2010, 09:26 AM
Well refrigeration definitely isn't a problem, as there are still large areas of the ship without atmosphere.

And the matter of limited amounts of bullets is a problem.. They would have to hunt with knives and other sharp objects so that they don't waste ammo on something that's not trying to kill them.

I didn't say that hunting was free and easy, merely that it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as FallenAngelII would seem to suggest. If given a mutually exclusive choice to waste one bullet (a headshot, ofc) for a 100kg animal (a deer or some such), or 100kg of fruits or veg, it would be a tough choice rather than a black and white issue.

Kaiphantom
April 27th, 2010, 10:15 AM
Then again, are you guys really saying that all you need is a mention of "Oh yeah, Chloe's off cleaning the bathrooms" every other episode in order for her to be considered a redeemed character? ;)

Honestly, this is what would redeem her (mostly) in my eyes. It doesn't need to be every other episode. I mean, we all know the scientists daily duties are learning about the ship, and helping the engineers repair it. We know some people are taking care of hydroponics. We know some military personnel are on KP duty (the kitchen). We know the soldiers are helping explore, and guarding particular parts of the ship. We know people like Wray are making notes and files about each person and keeping contact with everyone to see where they are.

Why? Because it's been shown at least once. We even had a kino episode about someone making banana-flavoring for the food!

All I'd need is a very short scene:

Eli: "Oh, there you are... what are you doing?"
Chloe: *wiping down cabinet in a room* "Cleaning. Someone has to do it, and I felt like I had to do something around here.
Eli: "Isn't that, like, boring?"
Chloe: "I'm used to it; I had to clean up after my father most of the time. You needed something?"
Eli: "Oh, um, was just gonna show you something. [Insert scene here about new planet or new sight to see or he's just asking her to lunch]"

That's it. Simple and effective in showing that she's doing something helpful. Could replace cleaning with learning some first aid from TJ, or helping to cook and prepare food, or tending the plants in hydroponics etc. Or even take use of her skills to become more of a negotiator between the civilians and military.

Edit: the food thing isn't exactly on topic, but you can set traps for animals instead of shooting them. Thereby saving bullets. Or even do some fishing.

SG7
April 27th, 2010, 11:01 AM
Chloe kind of reminds me of Keller from SGA. She is damned if she does and damn if she doesn't, A lot has to do with Chlloe's role is something unique we haven't seen on Stargate before

Yeh I agree. She was doomed pretty much from the get go much like Jonas was in SG1. When a character is replaced by another, it takes great care and work of the actor/actress and TPTB to mold the character into one that will be recieved by the fans (or hated if villenous) while not discretiting the one being replaced. Or turning the new character into a "mold" of the previous one.


exaclty chole can't do anything right in fandoms eyes. but if she became the destiny's AI i think everyone wou.d be happy.

And that may partly be because the way her character has been shaped from day one. She was an aide to her father who really was a "tag-along" to help him. She like many of the others on that ship have no buisness being there, and are only there by circumstances, and not by choice. While the military personnel may be a little more equipped to handle this kind of situation (though they too are there by circumstances and not by choice) I think that TPTB wrote her character initially that way so that we as viewers can identify with those people on Destiny who may not be equipped to handle the situation or were not meant to be there (nonmilitary personnel who wouldn't be assigned to the Stargate program). And that over time they will develop her character into one that we can possibly apprecite and find useful to their current situation.

AVFan
April 27th, 2010, 11:20 AM
Edit: the food thing isn't exactly on topic, but you can set traps for animals instead of shooting them. Thereby saving bullets. Or even do some fishing.

The only problem with traps is that they take time to fill. The ship has somewhere between 6 (Human)-12(Air pt 3) hours on each planet. You may need a little longer for the animals to find the traps. And fishing may work, except you'd need to have quite a haul in order to feed 80 some people for even one meal. Still possible though.

thekillman
April 27th, 2010, 11:41 AM
or we just do both. humans need little meat to survive.

JustAnotherVoice
April 27th, 2010, 11:59 AM
The only problem with traps is that they take time to fill. The ship has somewhere between 6 (Human)-12(Air pt 3) hours on each planet. You may need a little longer for the animals to find the traps. And fishing may work, except you'd need to have quite a haul in order to feed 80 some people for even one meal. Still possible though.

Traps need to be laid overnight, at least. On top of that, trapping big game without heavy duty gear is nigh on impossible(i.e steel beartraps or the like, because boyscout antics won't hold a 200lb+ wild animal despite what Bear Grylls may tell you); hoping that there are enough animals in the pack to be able to get one of them; arriving on the planet at the right season (migrating seasons for large game, or active seasons for smaller game). All in all, I'd rather hope to find a hibernating bear (anywhere from 45kg to a whopping 750kg) and some cubs or something. A single 9mm round in the head of each and you're fed & clothed for a few weeks, if you're smart with the meat and lucky with the animal.

Fishing...I'm sure Rush's ego will convince him that he can turn water into wine, if you know what I mean.

Really, Chloe could be learning survival skills, which would make her infinitely more useful than studying Jackson's notes, which could take a lifetime of self study but never get anywhere with. A few weeks learning how to braid a natural rope or set a basic trap something could prove much more valuable in the long term.

Blackhole
April 27th, 2010, 12:39 PM
I didn't say that hunting was free and easy, merely that it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as FallenAngelII would seem to suggest. If given a mutually exclusive choice to waste one bullet (a headshot, ofc) for a 100kg animal (a deer or some such), or 100kg of fruits or veg, it would be a tough choice rather than a black and white issue.

I agree hunting can’t be dismissed out of hand and is a very viable means of food gathering. Fishing is another option as well. They could use chum in a lake to attract fish and then toss some C4 into the water. It isn’t elegant but could yield a lot of fish very quickly. There are certainly limited C4 supplies but it depends on how dire the food situation gets on the Destiny. Since Faith I guess we can assume that Destiny’s food stores have been well stocked.

Meat is extremely nutrient dense and provides protein. Humans don’t need a lot of protein every day to survive but they definitely need some. There are also enjoyment factors beyond just collection and nutrition; eating only vegetables can get very old very fast. I think the limiting factor to Destiny’s foraging and hunting has been their short stops imposed by the ship. Currently if they should come across an animal, shooting and returning with it to the ship is a no brainer. Once they gain the access code they will be much better able to do both.

Something no one has mentioned is that Destiny has hydroponics bays set up. They are already growing their own food. I would expect that they have a supply of seeds with them as well. If I was a botanist rapidly evacuating from Icarus Base grabbing seeds would have been one of the first things I would have done. The growing times for vegetables and fruits varies from a month to over a year depending what is grown. The seeds from the vegetables and fruits collected along the way could be grown as well.

After a period of time the bays should more than provide all the fruit and vegetables they would need. I suppose they could eventually try to catch wild animals and use them for eggs and food stock. Another option is to make nets and capture fish alive. They could then be transferred to tanks on board and bred for food. Harvesting fish would probably be the most hassle free method for ongoing animal flesh. I seem to remember the ship may have been designed for colonization. A ship as big as Destiny may have facilities in place already designed for such purposes. The ancients were advanced but still had to eat. Whatever methods were in place for them could easily be used by us.

Merlin's_Legacy
April 27th, 2010, 02:09 PM
The fishing part would be incredibly easy. On an uninhabited planet with no game wardens about to slap your hand, one grenade tossed into a lake will give you a good haul of fish.

AVFan
April 27th, 2010, 03:34 PM
The fishing part would be incredibly easy. On an uninhabited planet with no game wardens about to slap your hand, one grenade tossed into a lake will give you a good haul of fish.

That is, until you run out of grenades.

jelgate
April 27th, 2010, 04:19 PM
I doubt Young and the other leader would be happy with wasting explosives on fish when they are less wasteful methods

Blackhole
April 27th, 2010, 04:51 PM
I doubt Young and the other leader would be happy with wasting explosives on fish when they are less wasteful methods

True, but it depends how dire the food supply get on the ship.

jelgate
April 27th, 2010, 04:53 PM
True, but it depends how dire the food supply get on the ship.

Do it the Native American way

pipi
April 28th, 2010, 12:36 AM
or we just do both. humans need little meat to survive.

Yes, but you will also become very slim. Even if I stuff myself with a vegi salad, I'd be hungry again in about 3hrs. It don't last long. And seeing that they are on rations, I have yet to see Eli shed some kilos. Everyone on that ship should be loosing weight, just like on the show Survivor.

That 1 month adventure they had would resupply them with fresh fruit and veg but little carbohydrates (grain or rice) nor protein (meat). Eli quit eating those Big Macs off screen, need to look the part man.

JustAnotherVoice
April 28th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Yes, but you will also become very slim. Even if I stuff myself with a vegi salad, I'd be hungry again in about 3hrs. It don't last long. And seeing that they are on rations, I have yet to see Eli shed some kilos. Everyone on that ship should be loosing weight, just like on the show Survivor.

That 1 month adventure they had would resupply them with fresh fruit and veg but little carbohydrates (grain or rice) nor protein (meat). Eli quit eating those Big Macs off screen, need to look the part man.

We'll have to chalk this one up to suspension of disbelief. I don't think any of the actors are paid enough to find the dedication to look totally emaciated after the first half season.

Blackhole
April 28th, 2010, 02:14 AM
Yes, but you will also become very slim. Even if I stuff myself with a vegi salad, I'd be hungry again in about 3hrs. It don't last long. And seeing that they are on rations, I have yet to see Eli shed some kilos. Everyone on that ship should be loosing weight, just like on the show Survivor.

That 1 month adventure they had would resupply them with fresh fruit and veg but little carbohydrates (grain or rice) nor protein (meat). Eli quit eating those Big Macs off screen, need to look the part man.

I thought the same thing, it would be like Tom Hanks in Cast Away; they would all have lost weight especially the heavier ones.

FallenAngelII
April 28th, 2010, 06:42 AM
Yes, but you will also become very slim. Even if I stuff myself with a vegi salad, I'd be hungry again in about 3hrs.
Depends on what vegetation you eat.


It don't last long. And seeing that they are on rations, I have yet to see Eli shed some kilos.
Actually, just because Eli hasn't lost half his weight doesn't mean he hasn't lost any weight. Take a look at Eli's face in "Human". It's noticeably less round than at the start of the show.

jelgate
April 28th, 2010, 07:21 AM
Yes, but you will also become very slim. Even if I stuff myself with a vegi salad, I'd be hungry again in about 3hrs. It don't last long. And seeing that they are on rations, I have yet to see Eli shed some kilos. Everyone on that ship should be loosing weight, just like on the show Survivor.

That 1 month adventure they had would resupply them with fresh fruit and veg but little carbohydrates (grain or rice) nor protein (meat). Eli quit eating those Big Macs off screen, need to look the part man.

Thats just not going to happen. The actors can't realasticly eat what their characters eat. It would lead to malnutrition which is something I don't think any actor would be willing to do.

Commander Zelix
April 28th, 2010, 08:04 AM
I thought the same thing, it would be like Tom Hanks in Cast Away; they would all have lost weight especially the heavier ones.
Christian Bale's weight loss for The Machinist!!

Avenger
April 28th, 2010, 08:20 AM
Yeah, that was scary.

pipi
April 28th, 2010, 05:47 PM
The Biggest Loser: Destiny

Send a bunch of fat people to Destiny. lol.