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Ser Scot A Ellison
April 24th, 2010, 08:48 AM
Last night's episode prompted a question. Was the gate on the Icarus Planet brought there because of the planet's unique properties or was it found there? Dr. Jackson's comment on the discovery of the planet implies the planet was more interesting than the Stargate. I wonder if the 9th chevron was supposed to be dialable from anywhere provided sufficent power was available? The fact that the proper address is from Earth does imply that the ancients originally planed to dial Destiny from Earth. That being the case did they have some power supply we are unaware of that is sufficient to power a gate to reach Destiny sans an Icarus type planet?

escyos
April 24th, 2010, 08:55 AM
yes, joe mallozzi told us the gate was brought there when the planet was discovered, which would indicate tht you can use any gate as long as you have enough power.

rsanchez
April 24th, 2010, 09:13 AM
Maybe the Ancients didn't have to use too much power way back when, since the Destiny was much closer to them before they ascended. It's reasonable to assume that the Destiny was probably millions, if not billions, of light years closer the last time they boarded it by stargate. Who knows, maybe the whole reason why they developed ZPMs was to access Destiny as it was wandering further away, and their conventional power sources could no longer dial Destiny. Of course, they would no longer have needed to develop even greater power sources to dial Destiny because after they developed ZPMs, they had their little war with the Wraith, and all power was going to fighting that war instead of dialing Destiny, and eventually they ascended anyway and wouldn't need the Destiny to explore the Universe.

GoodSmeagol
April 24th, 2010, 11:15 AM
They had their war with the wraith almost 5million years after making ZPMs, just to nit pick..

Phenomenological
April 24th, 2010, 11:32 AM
In the pilot, don't they say something about the gate being programmed only to dial out not accept incoming wormholes? To me the the way it was said implied it wasn't done by the humans, which would imply it was there before they arrived.

jollyrogue
April 24th, 2010, 12:05 PM
In the pilot, don't they say something about the gate being programmed only to dial out not accept incoming wormholes? To me the the way it was said implied it wasn't done by the humans, which would imply it was there before they arrived.

It wouldn't have been the gate being programmed but the DHD. So it could be possible that a DHD may have been on the planet. But i doubt it.

Phenomenological
April 24th, 2010, 12:32 PM
I'm not certain it would be the DHD. A gate can be dialled if no DHD is present, so the programming related to receiving a wormhole (And indeed connecting if the gate is manually dialled) is necessarily stored inside the gate itself. So it would be something in the gate that would need to be modified to prevent incoming wormholes connecting.

Quadhelix
April 24th, 2010, 01:52 PM
In the pilot, don't they say something about the gate being programmed only to dial out not accept incoming wormholes? To me the the way it was said implied it wasn't done by the humans, which would imply it was there before they arrived.
The exact quote is:

WALLACE: So if the Stargate can instantly transport you to another planet, why did we fly here on a spaceship?

SCOTT: It's something to do with how this one's tied into the plane of the power. Apparently it's been modified to only dial out because incoming wormholes are too dangerous. You're the genius - you could probably tell me better.
The last sentence implies that the reason Scott used "apparently" is because that is how the tech. people explained why they were doing it.




So it would be something in the gate that would need to be modified to prevent incoming wormholes connecting.
They've being reprogramming Stargates for years now (for example, McKay's macro for the 'Gate bridge).

Phenomenological
April 24th, 2010, 01:58 PM
If they were so concerned about the safety of the base they disabled incoming wormholes, why were there so few defences against orbital attack? They only a had a couple of railguns. You'd think they might stick a small shield generator in to at least give them time to evacuate.

Blackhole
April 24th, 2010, 02:06 PM
The whole bit about a "code" to dial Destiny's gate always bothered me. The chevrons represent a spatial position in space. Using another gate's chevron as the origin chevron should have blocked the proper connection.

Blistna
April 24th, 2010, 03:10 PM
The whole bit about a "code" to dial Destiny's gate always bothered me. The chevrons represent a spatial position in space. Using another gate's chevron as the origin chevron should have blocked the proper connection.

The Destiny does not have a specific location. To dial the Destiny, you'd have to somehow tell it to get out of FTL and allow for gate travel. This might be one of the reasons it needs more power, to find and talk to the Destiny itself. And, to think of the Gate Network like our telephone network, we have short codes that allow you to dial/text so you wont have to dial the full number. Like "TEXT YOUR ANSWER NOW to 33223" and you could win a MILLION BUCKS. Does your phone stop you from texting this number (OK, mine does, but thats because for some reason it's disabled on my phone and my phone alone...everyone else can. I am too lazy to call and ask why) but for most people, you can use these short codes.

Think of the Destiny's address as a "short code" and the Gate Network will automatically find the correct address and go from there.


Maybe the Ancients didn't have to use too much power way back when, since the Destiny was much closer to them before they ascended. It's reasonable to assume that the Destiny was probably millions, if not billions, of light years closer the last time they boarded it by stargate. Who knows, maybe the whole reason why they developed ZPMs was to access Destiny as it was wandering further away, and their conventional power sources could no longer dial Destiny. Of course, they would no longer have needed to develop even greater power sources to dial Destiny because after they developed ZPMs, they had their little war with the Wraith, and all power was going to fighting that war instead of dialing Destiny, and eventually they ascended anyway and wouldn't need the Destiny to explore the Universe.

I agree that yes at one point it might have used less power, but everything we know the Ancients never went to the Destiny.

Blackhole
April 24th, 2010, 03:42 PM
The Destiny does not have a specific location. To dial the Destiny, you'd have to somehow tell it to get out of FTL and allow for gate travel. This might be one of the reasons it needs more power, to find and talk to the Destiny itself. And, to think of the Gate Network like our telephone network, we have short codes that allow you to dial/text so you wont have to dial the full number. Like "TEXT YOUR ANSWER NOW to 33223" and you could win a MILLION BUCKS. Does your phone stop you from texting this number (OK, mine does, but thats because for some reason it's disabled on my phone and my phone alone...everyone else can. I am too lazy to call and ask why) but for most people, you can use these short codes.

Think of the Destiny's address as a "short code" and the Gate Network will automatically find the correct address and go from there.

I agree that yes at one point it might have used less power, but everything we know the Ancients never went to the Destiny.

You make an excellent point. I hadn't considered that Destiny was in motion.

I always assumed the chevrons represented relative fixed spatial coordinates. In the Milky Way Galaxy one would think a moving ship's address would change as their position in the Galaxy changed; otherwise how would the origin DHD be able to look in the right part of space to find and connect to the ship's gate. Probably if one thought too hard about the whole 7 address system they would logically conclude there aren't enough chevrons to divide the galaxy into. With thousands of gates throughout the Galaxy how would the origin DHD be able to differentiate those gates that were very close to each other? With only 7 chevrons one would think the different permutations would point to a region of space large enough that there could be several gates in it. That being said how would the origin DHD be able to determine which gate to connect to? Stargate has never explained how the order of the chevrons works to localize position in the galaxy. Maybe the chevrons function like area codes depending on their position in the dialing sequence and somehow serve to localize position?

With the Destiny nearly a universe away how would the origin DHD be able to differentiate its gates from all the others that have been seeded near it?

garhkal
April 24th, 2010, 03:52 PM
If they were so concerned about the safety of the base they disabled incoming wormholes, why were there so few defences against orbital attack? They only a had a couple of railguns. You'd think they might stick a small shield generator in to at least give them time to evacuate.

Cause they felt the secretness of the base would do it.

Phenomenological
April 25th, 2010, 06:49 AM
Cause they felt the secretness of the base would do it.

Why is it that humans in the SG universe never learn? How many off world bases in both SG1 and Atlantis were compromised that were supposedly secret? :P

thekillman
April 25th, 2010, 07:56 AM
Icarus did have a shield

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 25th, 2010, 01:05 PM
Killman,

I don't recall a physical sheild at Icarus. I do remember a mention of an "anti-beaming sheild.

garhkal
April 25th, 2010, 03:29 PM
Why is it that humans in the SG universe never learn? How many off world bases in both SG1 and Atlantis were compromised that were supposedly secret? :P

Just like things here on our earth are done that way continually. A mind block..

Phenomenological
April 25th, 2010, 03:37 PM
A mind block for every single person working in the SGC and at the Icarus base? If I was stuck on a planet lightyears from earth I'd sure as hell consider the possibility of being blown apart from orbit and take measures to prevent it happening.

Mr.Xcelent
April 25th, 2010, 04:12 PM
It wouldn't have been the gate being programmed but the DHD. So it could be possible that a DHD may have been on the planet. But i doubt it.

There was a DHD on the planet. You see it in Air pt1, they just don't use it.SG bases use there own bypass systems to dial gates. Eli took a picture in front of the DHD, you can see it in him stargate.MGM.com blog.

pipi
April 26th, 2010, 03:57 AM
So it would be something in the gate that would need to be modified to prevent incoming wormholes connecting.

This would have come in handy when the Goa'ulds were spamming the stargate in earlier episodes of SG-1.

garhkal
April 26th, 2010, 04:57 PM
A mind block for every single person working in the SGC and at the Icarus base?

Look at how many times their off world bases got hit, or teams doing the same old same old got hit.. mental blocks showing (well to me) that they just did not learn from prior mistakes.

pipi
April 26th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Well it just wouldn't be Stargate if the humans were not the underdogs. The underprepared weaklings getting hammered by superior aliens.

Merlin's_Legacy
April 27th, 2010, 11:09 AM
With a planet as unstable as Icarus, there's not much a shield is going to do.

And the incoming wormholes weren't disabled as a security measure, they were disabled as a SAFETY measure. I.E. Incoming Wormhole = initial power surge coming in from another gate. That surge could be enough to destabilize the Icarus core. Keep in mind that the whole freaking planet was a naturally occurring Naquadriah reactor.

Phenomenological
April 27th, 2010, 10:45 PM
With a planet as unstable as Icarus, there's not much a shield is going to do.

And the incoming wormholes weren't disabled as a security measure, they were disabled as a SAFETY measure. I.E. Incoming Wormhole = initial power surge coming in from another gate. That surge could be enough to destabilize the Icarus core. Keep in mind that the whole freaking planet was a naturally occurring Naquadriah reactor.

Incoming wormholes draw power from the offworld source, so that shouldn't be a problem. The power would only affect the gate itself. It would be dialling out that was dangerous.

escyos
April 27th, 2010, 11:48 PM
Incoming wormholes draw power from the offworld source, so that shouldn't be a problem. The power would only affect the gate itself. It would be dialling out that was dangerous.

not if the power source on the other end was interupted and if the gate on the other end malfunctioned or had to draw more energy than usual (say if it were struck by weapon fire - SG:1 - Solitudes) then the core could become unstable.

and there wasnt a shield as such, as far as im concerned, more of an EM field to stop people and things from being beamed out from within the base.

pipi
April 28th, 2010, 03:55 AM
more of an EM field to stop people and things from being beamed out from within the base.

Unless they have upgraded, the EM field was only a jamming device for transmitters. The beams could still work but they were beaming blind. But if they knew the exact layout and have the blue prints for the base, they could randomly beam everything out of a room if they wanted to.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 28th, 2010, 04:03 AM
Was it the attack that caused the core to go critical or using the gate to draw power from the planet's core?

escyos
April 28th, 2010, 04:19 AM
Was it the attack that caused the core to go critical or using the gate to draw power from the planet's core?

probably both.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 28th, 2010, 05:08 AM
escyos,


probably both.

Okay, so, without the attack and just the Stargate dialing the 9th Chevron the core would have had no problem. Contrawise without the stargate being dialed and just the attack the core wouldn't have gone critical? I'm suprised Young was so willing to give up the base and all it's equipment without a fight. Assuming the base was properly layed out for defense he could have bled the enemy force in the tunnels for quite a while until reinforcements from Earth arrived to deal with the forces in orbit.

That said I do agree the orbital defenses seem to have been poorly thought out.

blackluster
April 28th, 2010, 03:13 PM
I reckon the space defenses were appropriate for what I suspect they were trying to do. Daniel from Rush's memory mentions that the planet was a tip off from a source in the LA, but that there is a small mining installation there. I suspect that Earth captured Icarus but continued the small mining outpost appearances so as not to draw attention. That would mean they'd have to keep their fleet presence in the area to a minimum and make the planet appear relatively quiet. The ruse would be proven quite successful to if no one had bothered them for 2 years.

pipi
April 28th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Dressing grey huh, interesting.

escyos
April 28th, 2010, 11:55 PM
I reckon the space defenses were appropriate for what I suspect they were trying to do. Daniel from Rush's memory mentions that the planet was a tip off from a source in the LA, but that there is a small mining installation there. I suspect that Earth captured Icarus but continued the small mining outpost appearances so as not to draw attention. That would mean they'd have to keep their fleet presence in the area to a minimum and make the planet appear relatively quiet. The ruse would be proven quite successful to if no one had bothered them for 2 years.

no one said it was a lucian alliance planet just that a source from the L.A mentioned the planet. the L.A may have just come across it and were like 'wow a naquadah planet' not knowing it wasnt naquadah, but because it was close to earth they left it alone.

and knowing that the L.A knew of the planet shows that they didnt have a heap of apparent earth tech on the planet so as to not alert the L.A

blackluster
April 29th, 2010, 02:09 AM
no one said it was a lucian alliance planet just that a source from the L.A mentioned the planet. the L.A may have just come across it and were like 'wow a naquadah planet' not knowing it wasnt naquadah, but because it was close to earth they left it alone.

and knowing that the L.A knew of the planet shows that they didnt have a heap of apparent earth tech on the planet so as to not alert the L.AI never said that either...

pipi
April 29th, 2010, 03:40 AM
'wow a naquadah planet'

And thus they enter guns blazing. It's like having a shoot out on an airplane in midair.

escyos
April 29th, 2010, 03:56 AM
And thus they enter guns blazing. It's like having a shoot out on an airplane in midair.

of course, for what other reason would they want that planet...besides from the ninth chevron thing

blackluster
April 29th, 2010, 06:54 AM
The LA attacking the Icarus planet may have been as straightforward as repelling trespassers in their space. The planet would only have to fall in an area of space they are considered to hold to illicit such a response. If they had been kept in the dark about it for some time, then the response is perfectly understandable as well.

pipi
April 30th, 2010, 03:24 AM
of course, for what other reason would they want that planet...besides from the ninth chevron thing

You missed the joke.