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ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 01:15 PM
I was wondering, couldn't they members of the Destiny expedition just leave a message behind for the aliens who built the planet asking them to catch up to them and help them get back to Earth or something along those lines?

I then thought about the second shuttle, which they left behind. That would bre a good enough message that someone had been on the planet, right?

I just thought it was a plot hole that none of the characters suggested leaving a message, like a Kino maybe.

Pharaoh Atem
April 18th, 2010, 01:16 PM
I was wondering, couldn't they members of the Destiny expedition just leave a message behind for the aliens who built the planet asking them to catch up to them and help them get back to Earth or something along those lines?

I then thought about the second shuttle, which they left behind. That would bre a good enough message that someone had been on the planet, right?

I just thought it was a plot hole that none of the characters suggested leaving a message, like a Kino maybe.

it's only a guess that the solar system was built by aliens.

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 01:21 PM
it's only a guess that the solar system was built by aliens.

I think that it's a safe bet that some kind of alien intelligence created (or placed) the star, the planet, and the obelisk on the Destiny's path.

There were several points made in the episode that pointed to the planet being an anomaly that had to have been created (or placed) by someone else because it couldn't have happened naturally (i.e. the age of the star vs the development of the planet).

Plus, the obelisk is a huge indication of some sort of alien intelliegence keeping an eye on that world.

Now, whether that intelliegence will be benevolent or wrathful (i.e. they kindly placed the planet on the path of the Destiny to give the members of the expedition an option other than the ship, or they are like the guy in Stand By Me who didn't like people going into his junkyard) remains to be seen.

Other than aliens, the closest thing there are to Gods in Stargate is the Ascended, and they wouldn't need an obelisk, nor would they leave one behind to let them know if people have been to their planet --- they wouldn't need a planet at all.

reddevil18
April 18th, 2010, 01:30 PM
Umm...You do realize that Caine and some of his followers stayed behind, right?

Mr Evil 37
April 18th, 2010, 01:32 PM
I am very curious about what actually happened at the end, because they did not specifically say/show whether people still stayed behind, even after Scott and TJ decided/were forced to come back to Destiny. This also leads to the question about whether in the end they actually left the damaged shuttle behind.

reddevil18
April 18th, 2010, 01:38 PM
I am very curious about what actually happened at the end, because they did not specifically say/show whether people still stayed behind, even after Scott and TJ decided/were forced to come back to Destiny. This also leads to the question about whether in the end they actually left the damaged shuttle behind.Chloe was the only civilian shown to change her mind. I think if Caine returned, he would have been shown. And the shuttle would have stayed behind no matter what, because it couldn't make the trip back.

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 01:45 PM
Umm...You do realize that Caine and some of his followers stayed behind, right?

Oh, they did? I didn't notice that. I thought that they all went back.

reddevil18
April 18th, 2010, 01:47 PM
Oh, they did? I didn't notice that. I thought that they all went back.They didn't. When Young told them what was what, the military personnel all moved behind him, along with a few scientists, while other civilians moved to Caine. TJ and Scott went to Young and it was revealed on Destiny that Chloe did so as well. It's not clear just how many remained, but some did stay behind.

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 01:47 PM
Chloe was the only civilian shown to change her mind. I think if Caine returned, he would have been shown. And the shuttle would have stayed behind no matter what, because it couldn't make the trip back.

Yeah.

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 01:49 PM
They didn't. When Young told them what was what, the military personnel all moved behind him, along with a few scientists, while other civilians moved to Caine. TJ and Scott went to Young and it was revealed on Destiny that Chloe did so as well. It's not clear just how many remained, but some did stay behind.

Interesting.

I only saw Morrison move to the military side on the planet, I didn't see which side of the line Volker moved to, so when I saw him on Destiny I thought he and the other civilians had relented.

hiro
April 18th, 2010, 05:00 PM
it's only a guess that the solar system was built by aliens.

i 'll add ... and it's a guess that they'll come back ... you don't really know what was the light about ... we can imagine that was for communication but if the planet was made by aliens ( if , only ) you don't know the propose of the planet.

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 05:04 PM
i 'll add ... and it's a guess that they'll come back ... you don't really know what was the light about ... we can imagine that was for communication but if the planet was made by aliens ( if , only ) you don't know the propose of the planet.

If we were to flashforward 150 years on that planet and see a civlization made up of the descendants of the civilizans that stayed behind (assuming any of them were women, I didn't notice one way or the other), I'd be willing to bet that they would worship the aliens as if they were Gods.

On another note, the notion of a planet that provides people with everything they need reminded me of the Elloi in the Time Machine, which I thought was cool.

norph
April 18th, 2010, 07:03 PM
it's only a guess that the solar system was built by aliens.

Also assuming that the aliens are still around. The ancients build and left many stuff that are still working behind but they are no longer around (in the human form).

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Also assuming that the aliens are still around. The ancients build and left many stuff that are still working behind but they are no longer around (in the human form).

Ah, but the Ancients never made it to that part of the universe. The presence of the planet, star, and obelisk indicates the existence of a race that is probably far more advanced than the Ancients ever were, before or after they ascended.

jds1982
April 18th, 2010, 07:11 PM
If we were to flashforward 150 years on that planet and see a civlization made up of the descendants of the civilizans that stayed behind (assuming any of them were women, I didn't notice one way or the other), I'd be willing to bet that they would worship the aliens as if they were Gods.

I don't think there's enough people on that planet to create a civilization, except maybe of inbreds.

ManofTheAtom
April 18th, 2010, 07:20 PM
I don't think there's enough people on that planet to create a civilization, except maybe of inbreds.

It be a limited gene pool, sure, but it's not unprecedented in sci fi for a small group of people to create a civilization, or at least attempt to, specially Star Trek which did it twice, first on DS9 and then on Enterprise.

Either these people will stay on the planet and die out, be rescued, or reproduced and create a small civilization that beliefs on aliens that will come to rescue them.

We might yet see them again down the road if the aliens do go back to the planet.

garhkal
April 19th, 2010, 03:13 PM
Who's to say the aliens if they found said note, would even understand it?

ManofTheAtom
April 19th, 2010, 03:17 PM
Who's to say the aliens if they found said note, would even understand it?

Write it in the language of science, which is universal.

robert1232
April 19th, 2010, 03:48 PM
this is good some stayed behind, now your left with loyal people willing to take orders instead of mutiny. this shrinks the power struggle issue witch was getting old. civilian v. military. now it will be like old sg1 in a way, mainly military with some civilian influence. some bad issues are that the work force is smaller and it will take more time and effort to do a days work than it once did. and lesser defense force In case of incursion into destiny but since their is a lim supply of rifles and ammo that does not matter but in the last scene their is like 10 to 30 people so with all types to weapons so the weapons per person ratio should be 1 to 1

jelgate
April 19th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Write it in the language of science, which is universal.

Math tends to be more universal then science

ManofTheAtom
April 19th, 2010, 05:11 PM
Math tends to be more universal then science

That's what I meant, math.

jds1982
April 19th, 2010, 05:19 PM
It be a limited gene pool, sure,
It was, like five people who stayed. It wasn't a gene pool, more like a puddle. A tiny puddle.

ManofTheAtom
April 19th, 2010, 05:20 PM
It was, like five people who stayed. It wasn't a gene pool, more like a puddle. A tiny puddle.

Really? They're screwed...

Trinary
April 19th, 2010, 05:28 PM
Math tends to be more universal then science

Yet, not even a single human able to prove it....

I thought sign (not science) language is more universal.

ManofTheAtom
April 19th, 2010, 07:06 PM
I got a reply via email that isn't here.

One thing I wanted to say about that post, in regards to the power struggle, is, that I'm looking forward to seeing Young, Rush, and Wray become a tight leadership group, a trinity of sorts representative of the military, the civilians, and the scientists.

That be very cool to see, and different enough from SG1 and SGA to help SGU stand on its own. Now if only they destroyed the communication stones, that would seal the deal.

garhkal
April 20th, 2010, 03:33 PM
Really? They're screwed...

Since i only saw one chick iirc stay behind, she is literally shanked.

ManofTheAtom
April 20th, 2010, 03:40 PM
Since i only saw one chick iirc stay behind, she is literally shanked.

The question is, how soon until they find a pig and stick its head on a pike outside a cave?

Gollumpus
April 20th, 2010, 07:54 PM
Yet, not even a single human able to prove it....

I thought sign (not science) language is more universal.

I believe it goes something like this...

A language has a set vocabulary, letters, rules etc which can only be understood by a non-native speaker after some time to learn the same. Math is pretty basic as a "language" in that things don't change. Prime numbers are the usual example of numbers and math as language. One is one regardless of your language. Three is three and so on. Where things could get a muddy is if the other guy is not using base 10 for counting...

regards,
G.

EllieVee
April 20th, 2010, 08:32 PM
If we were to flashforward 150 years on that planet and see a civlization made up of the descendants of the civilizans that stayed behind (assuming any of them were women, I didn't notice one way or the other), I'd be willing to bet that they would worship the aliens as if they were Gods.

On another note, the notion of a planet that provides people with everything they need reminded me of the Elloi in the Time Machine, which I thought was cool.

I think if we were to flashforward to their descendants, we'd get this sort of thing:

http://static.open.salon.com/files/xfiles-home-peacocks61248736356.jpg

Gollumpus
April 20th, 2010, 08:48 PM
I think if we were to flashforward to their descendants, we'd get this sort of thing:

http://static.open.salon.com/files/xfiles-home-peacocks61248736356.jpg

That, but without the clothes or the pitchfork...

regards,
G.

Trinary
April 21st, 2010, 11:54 AM
I believe it goes something like this...

A language has a set vocabulary, letters, rules etc which can only be understood by a non-native speaker after some time to learn the same. Math is pretty basic as a "language" in that things don't change. Prime numbers are the usual example of numbers and math as language. One is one regardless of your language. Three is three and so on. Where things could get a muddy is if the other guy is not using base 10 for counting...

regards,
G.
O'Neil using the Ancient Base 8 math to reveal several unlisted stargates network in attempt to get help from the Asgard. This was enough to put a huge gap of complexity to mixed and match our Base 10 math. Imagine if the Asgard using Base 6 math due to their nature having 3 fingers on each hand, wouldn't that makes their math understanding more confusing for us to find any similarities?

Mike.
April 21st, 2010, 02:35 PM
I believe it goes something like this...

A language has a set vocabulary, letters, rules etc which can only be understood by a non-native speaker after some time to learn the same. Math is pretty basic as a "language" in that things don't change. Prime numbers are the usual example of numbers and math as language. One is one regardless of your language. Three is three and so on. Where things could get a muddy is if the other guy is not using base 10 for counting...

regards,
G.
O'Neil using the Ancient Base 8 math to reveal several unlisted stargates network in attempt to get help from the Asgard. This was enough to put a huge gap of complexity to mixed and match our Base 10 math. Imagine if the Asgard using Base 6 math due to their nature having 3 fingers on each hand, wouldn't that makes their math understanding more confusing for us to find any similarities?

This is already giving me a headache. Here's a relevant text:


Alternative bases (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal#Alternative_bases)

Some cultures do, or did, use other numeral systems, most notably

* pre-Columbian Mesoamerican cultures such as the Maya used a base 20 system (using all twenty fingers and toes) and
* the Babylonians used base 60.

In addition, it has been suggested that many other cultures developed alternative numeral systems (although the extent is debated):

* Many or all of the Chumashan languages originally used a base 4 counting system, in which the names for numbers were structured according to multiples of 4 and 16.
* Many languages use quinary number systems, including Gumatj, Nunggubuyu, Kuurn Kopan Noot and Saraveca. Of these, Gumatj is the only true "5-25" language known, in which 25 is the higher group of 5.
* Some Nigerians use base 12 systems
* The Huli language of Papua New Guinea is reported to have base 15 numerals. Ngui means 15, ngui ki means 15×2 = 30, and ngui ngui means 15×15 = 225.
* Umbu-Ungu, also known as Kakoli, is reported to have base-24 numerals. Tokapu means 24, tokapu talu means 24×2 = 48, and tokapu tokapu means 24×24 = 576.
* Base 27 is used in two natural languages, the Telefol language and the Oksapmin language of Papua New Guinea.
* Ngiti is reported to have a base 32 numeral system with base 4 cycles.


And this is just us, regular earthlings. Imagine what aliens - beings completely different to us could dream up.

This might not even be the worst of it. While in math the ideas are generally universal, how are you going to represent them in a way for aliens to understand. The numbers we use are symbols we came up with. The same goes with basic operations. While the really simple ones could be represented by dots or something, how are you going to translate the square root symbol. Even at multiplication it gets murky. I suppose you could include a large number of examples and hope they figure it out... How could you explain the symbols used in physics? You'd need it to prove you know more than basic math, and are worthy of their attention.

Depending how they communicate, using a normal language might be better or a complete train wreck.

In SG1 in the "meeting place" they used elements and their structure to make a "language", number of protons, neutrons, electrons... For this to work you have to assume that the aliens have eyes... or something else to detect objects and form detailed images.

ManofTheAtom
April 21st, 2010, 02:41 PM
In SG1 in the "meeting place" they used elements and their structure to make a "language", number of protons, neutrons, electrons... For this to work you have to assume that the aliens have eyes... or something else to detect objects and form detailed images.

I had forgotten about Heliopolis

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Heliopolis