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erotavlas
April 16th, 2010, 08:10 PM
What a change we are seeing in Young. He seems really trying hard to make things work this time around. I especially liked at the end how he made the joke to Rush about him not getting a chance to finally have someone to talk to (i.e. the advanced aliens). And his attempt to find something in common (chess).

I wonder if he is sincere about it or just doing it because they are stuck together and have no choice but to get along. Also I wonder what Rush thinks about Young's new attitude.

the fifth man
April 16th, 2010, 08:12 PM
What a change we are seeing in Young. He seems really trying hard to make things work this time around. I especially liked at the end how he made the joke to Rush about him not getting a chance to finally have someone to talk to (i.e. the advanced aliens). And his attempt to find something in common (chess).

I wonder if he is sincere about it or just doing it because they are stuck together and have no choice but to get along. Also I wonder what Rush thinks about Young's new attitude.

Honestly, I think it is a little of both. Over time, I think the two of them could build at least some kind of amicable relationship.

Daro
April 16th, 2010, 08:19 PM
I think it's both. It's odd that there isn't much in this episode for the two factions to argue over. I mean, it'll happen, give us a day, but honestly neither character really did anything objectionable. I also liked how, when Young said "I've made my decision," Rush doesn't continue to argue. I'd say it was respectful, but of course I'm not sure if Rush just decided that continuing to voice his opinion wouldn't do any good.

erotavlas
April 16th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Rush doesn't continue to argue. I'd say it was respectful, but of course I'm not sure if Rush just decided that continuing to voice his opinion wouldn't do any good.

perhaps Rush is beginning to respect Young a little and see some wisdom in some of his decisions. Like when he decided to have TJ remove the tracking device regardless of Rush's fear. It was better than having the aliens follow them.

at the same time Rush might also see that Young is also a smart man, since he outsmarted him at his own game (at trying to take control of the ship) and after by giving Rush and the civilians what they want, some respect and some freedom from military control.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 16th, 2010, 08:53 PM
I've always seen Young as making an effort but he's so reserved that perhaps it made no/very little effect. Here, he's really trying hard, especially with Rush. Considering their history, for Young to stand so close to Rush while Rush has a knife? And from whom did Rush get that anyway? There were moments when Rush was by the console when Young looked very concerned, and for Young to show that at all? That has to be a big thing.

Daro
April 16th, 2010, 08:57 PM
perhaps Rush is beginning to respect Young a little and see some wisdom in some of his decisions. Like when he decided to have TJ remove the tracking device regardless of Rush's fear. It was better than having the aliens follow them.

at the same time Rush might also see that Young is also a smart man, since he outsmarted him at his own game (at trying to take control of the ship) and after by giving Rush and the civilians what they want, some respect and some freedom from military control.

Yes, I thought that too. I also think the analogy of them playing chess with one another to the way their relationship will hopefully work from here on out is good. I don't believe for a second that they will always cooperate. But if they could get past the overt and brutish antagonizations, I'd be pretty happy.

Pharaoh Atem
April 16th, 2010, 09:04 PM
young's always tried to make it work. rush on the other hand.

EllieVee
April 16th, 2010, 09:20 PM
young's always tried to make it work. rush on the other hand.

Sure, those ridiculous accusations about Rush knowing the ship was solar powered and having a communication stone and the hilarious joke about Rush starting fires about the power situation was Young trying to make it work. :rolleyes:

Daro
April 16th, 2010, 09:21 PM
young's always tried to make it work. rush on the other hand.

No, he hasn't. Besides the obvious evidence against that in "Justice," Young has been just as guilty up until that point of bickering and antagonizing as Rush has. Maybe more so. Young wasn't trying to make anything work at the end of "Light." And he wasn't trying to make anything work the numerous times he's questioned Rush's decisions, advice, and motives in front of the crew. But that's ok, since he's trying so hard now. I somehow doubt that Rush will try too hard to get along, but I can always hope.

EllieVee
April 16th, 2010, 09:22 PM
Daro. ;)

meo3000
April 16th, 2010, 09:42 PM
I can see it now. Those two will become the best of friends. Of course they will never acknowledge it, say they respect each other, but in the long run, i see them making a lot of decisions together over a chess game, late at night.

Daro
April 16th, 2010, 10:26 PM
I can see it now. Those two will become the best of friends. Of course they will never acknowledge it, say they respect each other, but in the long run, i see them making a lot of decisions together over a chess game, late at night.

Let's not get crazy here. I can't see them being BFF's, but I imagine you're right about the chess game thing, and hopefully the respect.

Encoder
April 17th, 2010, 09:01 AM
Young is definitely making the most effort when it comes to the Civ's, ESPECIALLY with Rush, there were two (maybe three) times during this episode alone where Rush had to double take and ask Young, "Are you serious?" because of it.

Young is the best leader for the job, even if he has made some questionable decisions in the past, but "Come on" :mckay:, which leader hasn't ?

:sheppard:

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 17th, 2010, 09:04 AM
Young is definitely making the most effort when it comes to the Civ's, ESPECIALLY with Rush, there were two (maybe three) times during this episode alone where Rush had to double take and ask Young, "Are you serious?" because of it.

Young is the best leader for the job, even if he has made some questionable decisions in the past, but "Come on" :mckay:, which leader hasn't ?

:sheppard:

all heroes are flawed :)
I liked seeing how far Young was willing to go, just to try

Encoder
April 17th, 2010, 09:04 AM
all heroes are flawed :)
I liked seeing how far Young was willing to go, just to try

:indeed:

garhkal
April 17th, 2010, 10:37 AM
What a change we are seeing in Young. He seems really trying hard to make things work this time around. I especially liked at the end how he made the joke to Rush about him not getting a chance to finally have someone to talk to (i.e. the advanced aliens). And his attempt to find something in common (chess).

I wonder if he is sincere about it or just doing it because they are stuck together and have no choice but to get along. Also I wonder what Rush thinks about Young's new attitude.

Part of me hopes it is him being sincere, but part of me FEELS it is just like he said, we have to look the part for the good of the crew.
And i loved his little joke to rush right at the end..


Let's not get crazy here. I can't see them being BFF's, but I imagine you're right about the chess game thing, and hopefully the respect.

I see them showing mutual respect, more so than i do them being friends.. BUT we have seen worse combos.

escyos
April 19th, 2010, 02:57 AM
yeah, i too want a rush/yougn makeout scene in the shower...did i say that out loud?

Lahela
April 19th, 2010, 03:04 AM
I don't get what joke people are referring to. :confused: Young actually seemed sincere when he said he was sorry Rush didn't get his wish. It told me that Young probably does understand Rush better than he had previously appeared to, and that there might be hope for their relationship. If that was a joke, well... so much for hope.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 19th, 2010, 03:10 AM
I think Young is sincere in his effort. Rush is either completely unimpressed and has written Young off or slowly becoming impressed and reevaluating his opinion of Young. If Rush is pure reason I think it must be the latter as you can't piegonhole people and be truly reasonable. People can change, it's just very very hard to do. I do think Young has changed, but, we will not know for certian until they get into another high stress situation.

yanna
April 19th, 2010, 04:46 AM
I don't know. I had an image of Rush thinking "Whatever, you psycho" as Young was being all friendly with him.

I don't think Young is being completely sincere. If he had been sincere he would have shown a different attitude towards Rush in Space and Divided. It hurt Young to see that all the civilians hate him to the point of trying to take over the ship and he's trying to change their opinion.

ladypredator
April 19th, 2010, 08:02 AM
Grrr - my computer decided to crash while I was in the middle of writing a long exposition... I think I'll keep it shorter this time.

Young just doesn't get Rush. He always gets it wrong - keeps bouncing between failed attempts at bonhommie and bizarre accusations. That scene at the end of "Light" is a perfect example. Young first expects Rush to sit down and 'join the party' - which is something that obviously makes Rush cringe. Rush is not social, he obviously is not comfortable in social situations, hates having to make 'small-talk', and besides, he's too focused on his work. He knows they're hardly out of the woods yet. It's been made very clear that he likes to work alone and he's not comfortable in groups of people. But Young can't understand that, so when he gets rebuffed, he freaks out and tosses out a bizarre and ridiculous accusation. Rush is stunned by it, but he has never had patience with stupidity and he's hardly going waste his time trying to explain the obvious to the clueless. So he just closes up and walks away. It's a pattern you see repeated with them, all the way to that final scene in "Faith." Young's attempting to make a joke and Rush is just thinking "what the bloody hell is this idiot saying?" Young just doesn't get it and every time he screws up, he loses more of Rush's respect. And given that Young deliberately tried to murder Rush, it's going to take a bit more than a few messed up attempts to regain any trust.

I work for a woman who *always* gets it wrong with me. Every single time. I cringe when I have to deal with her. There are times I've wanted to strangle her and other times I've walked away thinking "what the hell is her problem?" Even when other colleagues tell me she was just trying to be helpful, I'm responding: "well, that wasn't only not helpful, it was downright insulting and I'm pissed off." She does NOT listen; she'll talk right over me. You can't believe how frustrating it is (and it's why I'm job hunting... anyone know a place who is hiring a medical librarian?)

Sorry, I got long-winded again. At least my computer hasn't decided to implode on me this time (so far!)

Daro
April 19th, 2010, 11:32 AM
Grrr - my computer decided to crash while I was in the middle of writing a long exposition... I think I'll keep it shorter this time.

Young just doesn't get Rush. He always gets it wrong - keeps bouncing between failed attempts at bonhommie and bizarre accusations. That scene at the end of "Light" is a perfect example. Young first expects Rush to sit down and 'join the party' - which is something that obviously makes Rush cringe. Rush is not social, he obviously is not comfortable in social situations, hates having to make 'small-talk', and besides, he's too focused on his work. He knows they're hardly out of the woods yet. It's been made very clear that he likes to work alone and he's not comfortable in groups of people. But Young can't understand that, so when he gets rebuffed, he freaks out and tosses out a bizarre and ridiculous accusation. Rush is stunned by it, but he has never had patience with stupidity and he's hardly going waste his time trying to explain the obvious to the clueless. So he just closes up and walks away. It's a pattern you see repeated with them, all the way to that final scene in "Faith." Young's attempting to make a joke and Rush is just thinking "what the bloody hell is this idiot saying?" Young just doesn't get it and every time he screws up, he loses more of Rush's respect. And given that Young deliberately tried to murder Rush, it's going to take a bit more than a few messed up attempts to regain any trust.

I work for a woman who *always* gets it wrong with me. Every single time. I cringe when I have to deal with her. There are times I've wanted to strangle her and other times I've walked away thinking "what the hell is her problem?" Even when other colleagues tell me she was just trying to be helpful, I'm responding: "well, that wasn't only not helpful, it was downright insulting and I'm pissed off." She does NOT listen; she'll talk right over me. You can't believe how frustrating it is (and it's why I'm job hunting... anyone know a place who is hiring a medical librarian?)

Sorry, I got long-winded again. At least my computer hasn't decided to implode on me this time (so far!)

I agree that Young and Rush don't understand each other at all. Sometime's it's funny, (end of "Faith") and sometimes it's so very not (end of "Light.")

I will say that, despite the bad blood between them, it's good to see Col. Young trying. At some point, Rush has to decide that paying attention to personal relationships (and, despite his best efforts, he now has them) is worthwhile. He's got to learn that his logical argument against letting him die, be abandoned, or whatever is not going to work on people who are much more emotional than logical. At some point, it's as much Rush's fault for being so deliberately anti-social as it is Young's for his bungling, inept attempts at making nice.
The chess scene was awkward, but Rush did nod at the end. Less awkward was the scene where Rush asked permission to work on reclaiming damaged parts of the ship, and Young agreed. And that's important. The sooner they can effectively work together, the better. Being on friendly terms would be nice, and I think it may happen eventually, but I won't keep my hopes up for this season, at least.

MattSilver 3k
April 19th, 2010, 11:36 AM
That's it - the communication problems between those two is too much to bear. Couple's therapy, ASAP.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 19th, 2010, 11:42 AM
somewhere TJ is swearing and muttering: checking to see if people are holding up is one thing but referree for those two?
shudder...

Daro
April 19th, 2010, 11:47 AM
That's it - the communication problems between those two is too much to bear. Couple's therapy, ASAP.

Don't feed the shippers, Matt. :P

MattSilver 3k
April 19th, 2010, 12:05 PM
Don't feed the shippers, Matt. :P

But they're an OTP, Daro! Can't you see it?

ARE YOU ALL BLIND?

:P

Mr chuckles
April 19th, 2010, 12:08 PM
Actually O'neill's method from season 8 of sg1 worked well I think it was zero hour or lockdown, where he locked those guys in a room for while until they played nice with each other, that might work.

Daro
April 19th, 2010, 12:18 PM
Actually O'neill's method from season 8 of sg1 worked well I think it was zero hour or lockdown, where he locked those guys in a room for while until they played nice with each other, that might work.

Rush would not leave that room alive. :(

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 19th, 2010, 01:12 PM
I don't know, after thinking about it, whether Rush will ever attempt to make "nicey nice" with Young. He's made his feelings for Young quite plain. That said, I still maintain part of being a person of reason is recognizing change in others. I really wonder if Rush will ever give even grudging respect to Young, he certianly didn't in this episode. But I hope he will later.

Daro
April 19th, 2010, 01:17 PM
Rush did give grudging respect to Young in this episode, after the initial headbutting. He asked permission for tasks, and when he declined to jump on figuring out the robot right away, he did get a bit annoyed, but he reassured Young that he would get to it. I agree that it will take a while for Rush to respect Young, but it's been only a few short weeks since "Justice." They need a crisis so big that they have no option but to work together in order to bring the ship through, and maybe after that (i.e. season finale, most likely) Rush may re-evaluate the idea that Young is unfit for command.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 19th, 2010, 01:20 PM
Daro,

The problem with a big crisis to bring them together is that big crises are where they've butted heads the most. Rush wants Young to listen to him and Young expects Rush to just follow orders. That doesn't gel well in those circumstances.

Gollumpus
April 19th, 2010, 02:09 PM
I'd have to be in agreement with Daro here. I see the start of a thaw between Young and Rush. The "reclaiming real estate" sequence shows us Rush being surprised/relieved that Young is on the same page as himself and he doesn't have to go through a discussion of the whys. The chess sequence at the end shows Rush once again being surprised by Young. Maybe his reaction is one of being "pleasantly surprised" at Young trying to find some common ground and also finding that they DO have some common ground.

Yes, it might also be interpreted that Rush is surprised (some might say shocked) that Young would even try to find common ground. Further, it might be that Rush was actually thinking, "Who does that knuckle-dragger think he is thinking he could last more than two moves against me?" However, I'm optimistic.

regards,
G.

Tuvok
April 19th, 2010, 02:31 PM
No, he hasn't. Besides the obvious evidence against that in "Justice," Young has been just as guilty up until that point of bickering and antagonizing as Rush has. Maybe more so. Young wasn't trying to make anything work at the end of "Light." And he wasn't trying to make anything work the numerous times he's questioned Rush's decisions, advice, and motives in front of the crew. But that's ok, since he's trying so hard now. I somehow doubt that Rush will try too hard to get along, but I can always hope.

I love Young he is one of my favorite commanders. But yeah , he was rather short with Rush. Perhaps with reason still doesn't excuse his impromptu murder attempt. Still both are to blame but yesterday, I have hope that maybe just maybe they will find a common ground.

Of course if they could just get that unfortunate sexual tension out of the way everything should sort itself out.

:D

carmencatalina
April 19th, 2010, 02:40 PM
Of course if they could just get that unfortunate sexual tension out of the way everything should sort itself out.
:D

Green for you!

Daro
April 19th, 2010, 06:08 PM
I love Young he is one of my favorite commanders. But yeah , he was rather short with Rush. Perhaps with reason still doesn't excuse his impromptu murder attempt. Still both are to blame but yesterday, I have hope that maybe just maybe they will find a common ground.

Of course if they could just get that unfortunate sexual tension out of the way everything should sort itself out.

:D

*fingers in ears* Lalalalalala I can't hear youuuuu!!!!! XD

Lahela
April 19th, 2010, 10:36 PM
Yes, it might also be interpreted that Rush is surprised (some might say shocked) that Young would even try to find common ground. Further, it might be that Rush was actually thinking, "Who does that knuckle-dragger think he is thinking he could last more than two moves against me?" However, I'm optimistic.


My feelings precisely :)

Tuvok
April 20th, 2010, 01:57 AM
Green for you!

I got GREEN.

Numfur , do the dance of joy!

:)

carmencatalina
April 20th, 2010, 10:50 AM
I got GREEN.

Numfur , do the dance of joy!

:)

See, and there are actually people on another thread arguing that a real nerd wouldn't be constantly be making pop culture/sci-fi references like Eli. Ha! If anything, Eli doesn't make enough random references. When he makes a Buffy/Angel one, then he will be a true nerd.

Edited to add:

And when I call you a true nerd, it is meant, of course, in the spirit of admiration and respect.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 20th, 2010, 02:44 PM
Nope, he needs a Firefly or Farscape reference to be a true uber-geek.

Tuvok
April 20th, 2010, 02:53 PM
See, and there are actually people on another thread arguing that a real nerd wouldn't be constantly be making pop culture/sci-fi references like Eli. Ha! If anything, Eli doesn't make enough random references. When he makes a Buffy/Angel one, then he will be a true nerd.

Edited to add:

And when I call you a true nerd, it is meant, of course, in the spirit of admiration and respect.

Compliment received with a smile. I'm a full fledged Nerd with a full social life and non-tech job and proud of it!

Truth , Eli needs to make more with the pop culture. Of course could be the stress that could explain our poor lovable geek not being at his best. Both people he respects , Young and Eli . Both whom see the most poetential in him tend to use him against one another. The girl he is in love with ( why I don't know) is shacking up with Captain Cardboard. And the newest Doctor Who is out in the states and Eli is stuck in the other end of the Universe wondering what could go wrong the next week.

That gives me an idea...Hug Week. Where Wray finds the crewmember feeling down. Gives them a hug, and says with earnest and respect that they are doing a good job. And that he is respected and needed.

First person up... Eli.

Then James.

:)

Gollumpus
April 20th, 2010, 03:20 PM
I got GREEN.

Numfur , do the dance of joy!

:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6KkJyu-fbs

I assume we all know that Josh Whedon was Numfar?

regards,
G.

Confessor Rahl
April 20th, 2010, 03:53 PM
That's it - the communication problems between those two is too much to bear. Couple's therapy, ASAP.

Hah hah hah... this!

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 20th, 2010, 03:55 PM
CR,

The ultimate irony is TJ would be the therapist.

Daro
April 20th, 2010, 04:03 PM
CR,

The ultimate irony is TJ would be the therapist.

....you too? I expected better from you, Ser! Feeding the shippers is FORBIDDEN. ;)