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View Full Version : If Mckay was in "DIVIDED". Would he have conspired with Dr. Rush?



Duneknight
April 14th, 2010, 04:15 AM
Rodney McKay from Atlantis, brilliant scientist, huge ego. Would he have conspired with Rush against military? or would he have questioned the legitimacy of such a coup? and could he have sided with Young instead? is McKay = Eli????????

g.o.d
April 14th, 2010, 04:41 AM
their egos won't allow them to work together

Laxian of Earth
April 14th, 2010, 05:04 AM
they would, they might do some "scientist infighting" but they would unite to take the lunatic (young) out of the picture!

greetings LAX
ps: if sheppard would be the military leader in destiny there would not be a problem - he might dissobey orders in the face of the enemy (as he has more experience in fighting then the civilians giving the orders) but he would let them govern themselves (more so as john dislikes administrativ tasks)

Telemachus
April 14th, 2010, 05:17 AM
Would of most likely been caught in the wrong area of the ship .


Rush would of still traded for Eli because he's thinking he can still control him moreso... since Eli is still a follower at this time.

Well, may have forced Mackay into the place they wanted him ... at the the pointy end of an lime slice perhaps sticking out of a corona , product placement ? Well If he was in posession of a laptop ;) different story line

yanna
April 14th, 2010, 07:19 AM
McKay would have been leading the scientists and would have found a way to get rid of Young and terrorise and control the military many episodes ago. Now, if McKay ended up at odds with Sheppard, I'm not sure what he'd do. I still think that if he believed the scientists to be in the right he would fight for them and pwn the military.

Rush and McKay would probably butt heads big time but they'd work together. It would probably be a bit like McKay and Daniel or McKay and Carter without the sexual harassment.

Also, good luck to anyone finding alien citrus to threaten McKay with...

I don't believe that Eli is anywhere near McKay's league. From the beginning McKay had the lead in scientific matters. If you see him in Rising ordering everyone around to conserve energy he had absolute authority and Sheppard was smart enough to rely on him and not question his scientific advice. Also, if Young tried to get McKay to spy on people I'm pretty sure McKay would tell him where to shove that kino.

Replicator Todd
April 14th, 2010, 11:39 PM
Mckay would chose the side that isn't threatening him.

reddevil18
April 14th, 2010, 11:42 PM
Mckay would chose the side that isn't threatening him.
This. And Rush would probably have severed the connection with Earth, because he'd be annoyed with the man, even if he were a co-conspirator.

asdf1239
April 15th, 2010, 12:05 AM
mckay wouldn't be decisive or courageous enough to support any side, he would most likely work for whoever got him first. if he disagreed with his captors/employers, he would sabotage them while working

hiro
April 15th, 2010, 06:51 AM
is McKay = Eli????????

Nope ... i think McKay != Eli !!!

FallenAngelII
April 15th, 2010, 06:52 AM
Who wouldn't have conspired with Rush after Young left him to die on a planet for vowing to continue undermining Young's command? It's attempted murder.

yanna
April 15th, 2010, 07:27 AM
^ Apparently Greer thinks it was justified. In general, the military doesn't seem to be torn at all but then again, I guess they have blind faith in their Colonel no matter what they may suspect.

The civilians needed Zelenka on their side, not McKay. Radek has proven that he can hold his own against the military in Tabula Rasa.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 15th, 2010, 09:08 AM
I think McKay and Rush could work together. Rush would just let Rodney bluster and whine then they'd work together when it really mattered. I think Rodney would have been horrified when he figured out what Young did.

beafly
April 15th, 2010, 11:24 AM
Who wouldn't have conspired with Rush after Young left him to die on a planet for vowing to continue undermining Young's command? It's attempted murder.

I wouldn't.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 15th, 2010, 11:48 AM
beafly,


I wouldn't.

Why not? Can leaving a man to die qualify as an "Oops" moment in your opinion?

jelgate
April 15th, 2010, 12:20 PM
beafly,



Why not? Can leaving a man to die qualify as an "Oops" moment in your opinion?
The point is not if what Young did in Justice was wrong because Rush has done his fair share of wrong things as well. Its more who is the lesser of two evils and who do you think is comptent to try to get you home

hiro
April 15th, 2010, 12:32 PM
beafly,
Why not? Can leaving a man to die qualify as an "Oops" moment in your opinion?


Yes, but we all know that you're a giant fan of Young and/or the U.S. military and believe that they can never do anything wrong as long as they don't actually murder someone in cold blood.

I'm not a Fan of Young and his us military but i still think that what they do it's wrong ! they have to talk and walk together to survive !

FallenAngelII
April 15th, 2010, 12:32 PM
The point is not if what Young did in Justice was wrong because Rush has done his fair share of wrong things as well. Its more who is the lesser of two evils and who do you think is comptent to try to get you home
No. It's about what is morally justifiable and what is legally abhorrent. Attempted murder cannot be justified. Because it's murder (killing in self-defense is not murder).

Rush is selfish, manipulative, Machiavellian, etc. But it doesn't give someone the right to try to murder him in cold blood. Because Young knows that Rush's "crimes" pale in comparison to attempted murder. That's why he chose not to try to take disciplinary actions against Rush aboard the ship for his "crimes" but instead try to murder Rush on a deserted planet. Because he knew there was no way for him to justify his crime.

If Rush is such a danger to the crew, lock him up, limit the access, punish him in some way. Who's the bigger threat here? Someone who'll manipulate you to do his bidding (but still leave the choice up to you) or the man who'll rob you of your life if he considers you a big enough of a liability to the mission (without giving you a choice in the matter)?

And what qualifications does Young possess to help the crew get back home?

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 15th, 2010, 12:32 PM
Jelgate,

Why is Young more competent than Rush to get everyone home?

jelgate
April 15th, 2010, 12:37 PM
Jelgate,

Why is Young more competent than Rush to get everyone home?

I could list all the reasons why I trust Young more then Rush and trust him more to get everyone home but with the moral ambigulatory that comes with SGU its all up to a viewer's perception

beafly
April 15th, 2010, 12:39 PM
beafly,



Why not? Can leaving a man to die qualify as an "Oops" moment in your opinion?

No. Not oops. Tried, convicted and sentenced. Young had video evidence, confronted him, got a confession, and he sentenced him to being marooned on the desert plantet. The only mistake Young made, was lying about it when he got back aboard the ship.

If Young had returned and told me straight to my face, this is what Rush did, here is the kino evidence, he confessed, and I marooned him there so he doesn't threaten our livelyhoods anymore, I'd have shrugged and moved on with trying to survive.

I'd have been upset at losing our best sceince officer, but not about the situation or result.

I've stated before in other threads, Rush committed mutiny by framing the commanding officer for murder. Maybe the civilized world doesn't maroon or execute for that crime anymore. But if it happened, I personally, wouldn't have my panties in a bunch over it.

prion
April 15th, 2010, 12:40 PM
Hmm, if Rodney had been there.... the coup would have worked, cuz Rodney would have worked out all the angles and looked at the "doom doom" angle and found the fixes. ;) That is, if Greer hadn't jettisoned him out an airlock before that for being so annoying and eating all the food ;)

Saquist
April 15th, 2010, 12:45 PM
McKay is always on McKay's side...he would have been too busy figuring out the protocols for Destiny and repairing the ship....probably would have all gone over his head.

hiro
April 15th, 2010, 01:03 PM
And what qualifications does Young possess to help the crew get back home?

Maybe he was assigned to the Icarus base for something .. no ? is not a complete idiot and as TJ said he is specialist in war ...

Laxian of Earth
March 12th, 2019, 11:43 AM
McKay would have been leading the scientists and would have found a way to get rid of Young and terrorise and control the military many episodes ago. Now, if McKay ended up at odds with Sheppard, I'm not sure what he'd do. I still think that if he believed the scientists to be in the right he would fight for them and pwn the military.

Rush and McKay would probably butt heads big time but they'd work together. It would probably be a bit like McKay and Daniel or McKay and Carter without the sexual harassment.

Also, good luck to anyone finding alien citrus to threaten McKay with...

I don't believe that Eli is anywhere near McKay's league. From the beginning McKay had the lead in scientific matters. If you see him in Rising ordering everyone around to conserve energy he had absolute authority and Sheppard was smart enough to rely on him and not question his scientific advice. Also, if Young tried to get McKay to spy on people I'm pretty sure McKay would tell him where to shove that kino.

Ok, this thread is old, but why is everything involving a woman (Samantha Carter) sexual harassment? Seriously, if Sam were a man nobody would bat an eyelash! Hell, Sam herself would probably tell you where to stick it (she's not a super-feminist! She knows that sometimes you have to show your worth first for people to accept you, especially if you are a women (most women would rather not be in the military/on a battlefield, so it is IMHO ok to not accept a woman ASAP! If she shows that she's competent? Yeah, do so and everybody on the show does, once Sam shows how good she is! Hell, even guys need to show their mettle first before they are accepted in military units - especially if they replace combat losses! New guys aren't always looked at favourably! Hell, best example is 'Star Wars: Clone Wars' where the new troopers are called shinies because their armor is brand new and doesn't have any scratches, patches or damage!)

So where's there sexual harassment in Stargate, especially stuff that men wouldn't also face if they show up unproven? Show me!

greetings LAX

P-90_177
March 12th, 2019, 11:54 AM
Ok, this thread is old, but why is everything involving a woman (Samantha Carter) sexual harassment? Seriously, if Sam were a man nobody would bat an eyelash! Hell, Sam herself would probably tell you where to stick it (she's not a super-feminist! She knows that sometimes you have to show your worth first for people to accept you, especially if you are a women (most women would rather not be in the military/on a battlefield, so it is IMHO ok to not accept a woman ASAP! If she shows that she's competent? Yeah, do so and everybody on the show does, once Sam shows how good she is! Hell, even guys need to show their mettle first before they are accepted in military units - especially if they replace combat losses! New guys aren't always looked at favourably! Hell, best example is 'Star Wars: Clone Wars' where the new troopers are called shinies because their armor is brand new and doesn't have any scratches, patches or damage!)

So where's there sexual harassment in Stargate, especially stuff that men wouldn't also face if they show up unproven? Show me!

greetings LAX

Not quite sure why you’re talking about the military when the comment was on McKay’s clearly misogynistic attitude towards Carter in his first appearences in SG-1. “I’ve always had a weakness for dumb blondes.” His words. To her face. That’s sexist as hell. And he is constantly hitting on her when it is unwelcome throughout those episodes. Carter may brush it off with her “shut it or I’ll punch you” attitude but that doesn’t change what it is.

Also “most women would rather not be in the military/ on a battlefield.” That’s true but neither would most men. When women join the military they accept that fighting in a war could be a consequence of that, just as men do.

Laxian of Earth
March 17th, 2019, 07:18 AM
McKay is abrassive, even towards Shepard and his fellow team members (hell, he kind of thinks all soldiers are dumb, that can be clearly seen in 'The Siege, part II' when he's annoyed that he's not in the meeting (and he really should be there!), especially since they come to him in the end anyway!)!

He's certainly not more abusive towards Sam than towards others!

So no, he's not mysoginistic!

Yes, he targets Sam - but not because she's a woman, he's feeling insecure because she is at least as smart as he is (hell, she is the one that shows up in his version of 'Grace' ('Grace under pressure') so he secretly admires her!)! Hell, a similar patern can be seen when he's working with his sister who is smarter and - in his mind (I happen to agree, but that's beside the point!) - is wasting her gift on raising brats!

Rodney is certainly not a woman hater! He doesn't target Teyla with stuff like that for example (he isn't exactly nice to her - but he also doesn't treat her like a macho-man would (eye candy, good for sex and otherwise worthless!)) - why? Because she doesn't threaten him, she may be stronger etc. but she doesn't have his scientific mind and brilliance!

ps: Note: I am certainly not a macho-man, hell Sam is still my favourite SG-Character :)

P-90_177
March 17th, 2019, 08:51 AM
McKay is abrassive, even towards Shepard and his fellow team members (hell, he kind of thinks all soldiers are dumb, that can be clearly seen in 'The Siege, part II' when he's annoyed that he's not in the meeting (and he really should be there!), especially since they come to him in the end anyway!)!

He's certainly not more abusive towards Sam than towards others!

So no, he's not mysoginistic!

Yes, he targets Sam - but not because she's a woman, he's feeling insecure because she is at least as smart as he is (hell, she is the one that shows up in his version of 'Grace' ('Grace under pressure') so he secretly admires her!)! Hell, a similar patern can be seen when he's working with his sister who is smarter and - in his mind (I happen to agree, but that's beside the point!) - is wasting her gift on raising brats!

Rodney is certainly not a woman hater! He doesn't target Teyla with stuff like that for example (he isn't exactly nice to her - but he also doesn't treat her like a macho-man would (eye candy, good for sex and otherwise worthless!)) - why? Because she doesn't threaten him, she may be stronger etc. but she doesn't have his scientific mind and brilliance!

ps: Note: I am certainly not a macho-man, hell Sam is still my favourite SG-Character :)

Just because you don’t actively think that men are better than women it doesn’t mean you aren’t mysoginistic. One way or another it doesn’t matter what McKay’s internal feelings are. As viewers we are privy to those thoughts that McKay has about himself that characters around him are not.

Now it’s hard not to judge McKay in 48 Hours except in regards to Carter because he mostly only interacts with her, barring a couple of final lines to Hammond at the end. In that he is actively dismissive of her and uses the aforemention “dumb blondes” line which again, is sexist. And he shows no sign of finding her smarter than he is in that episode. From his point of view, she just happened to be right in the end. So we can safely say that his attitude in that episode is him seeing himself as superior to her at least mentally and also uses her general physical appearence as a weapon against her.

The next time we see him in Redemption the first words out of his mouth to Carter are “Still sexy as ever I see.” And in the first conversations we see the two of them have he is just as dismissive of her. Yet we see in his interactions with Hammond and Jonas that he is... at least slightly more respectful toward them. He’s downright civil to Jonas. Now you could argue that he might now feel his rivalry with Carter so that’s prompting a more acerbic attitude toward her, but it doesn’t change the fact that he once again treats her as lesser than him while again pointing out her physical appearence. ie. “You can’t possibly be smaerter than me because you’re such a pretty girl.” while simultaneously treating the male members of the SGC with more respect.

Yes when we get to SGA he is far more respectful to women. But they had to redesign him since he would have been completely unlikeable otherwise. It doesn’t take away from how he acted in his earlier appearences.

Xaeden
March 26th, 2019, 11:03 AM
Ok, this thread is old, but why is everything involving a woman (Samantha Carter) sexual harassment? Seriously, if Sam were a man nobody would bat an eyelash! Hell, Sam herself would probably tell you where to stick it (she's not a super-feminist! She knows that sometimes you have to show your worth first for people to accept you, especially if you are a women (most women would rather not be in the military/on a battlefield, so it is IMHO ok to not accept a woman ASAP! If she shows that she's competent? Yeah, do so and everybody on the show does, once Sam shows how good she is! Hell, even guys need to show their mettle first before they are accepted in military units - especially if they replace combat losses! New guys aren't always looked at favourably! Hell, best example is 'Star Wars: Clone Wars' where the new troopers are called shinies because their armor is brand new and doesn't have any scratches, patches or damage!)


In response to someone talking about Mckay sexually harassing and being misogynistic toward Carter you talk about people in the military having to prove themselves when they're new? Seriously? When Mckay met Carter she was the foremost expert on gate technology. She was also a member of Sg-1 where her scientific capabilities saved the day and the world itself many times over. The days of her having to prove herself were long over.

Also claiming that women have to "especially" prove themselves because most women prefer not to be in the military is a nonsense argument. First, most men also prefer not to be in the military. Second, that there is a larger percentage of men in a field than women does mean women in that field should have to "especially" prove their competence. These are people who overcame additional hurdles to be where they are and, as a result, they deserve a higher level of assumed commitment.

Imagine that I said what you said about astronauts: "Most people would rather not go through the training required to be an astronaut, so it is IMHO okay to not accept an astronaut as good at their job ASAP." I'm not saying you have to assume that every astronaut you meet is the best, most competent astronaut they can be, but that they put themselves through a grueling experience that most people cannot/would not be willing to do is a point in their favor. If you were in charge of the astronaut program you still need to evaluate their individual performance and there are going to be cases where under performers need to be pulled, but you would recognize that they accomplished something extraordinary to begin with.

If you want to say that new soldiers need to prove themselves with their actions, that's fine. But to say that women have to go to greater lengths to prove themselves when they've already gone to lengths greater than their male colleagues by overcoming sexual harassment and societal/familial pressure to get where they are is, whether you realize it or not, problematic. It also, again, has nothing to do with how Carter, a well-established expert in her field who has already proven herself, was treated by Mckay.

And P-90_177 is right. The writers toned down Mckay's sexism and made him just generally arrogant and full of himself when they moved him to Atlantis. He was conceived as an antagonist for Carter and then turn into a main character with romantic prospects. Obviously sexism worked for the former, but would have been problematic for the latter.

Chaka-Z0
March 26th, 2019, 11:25 AM
And P-90_177 is right. The writers toned down Mckay's sexism and made him just generally arrogant and full of himself when they moved him to Atlantis. He was conceived as an antagonist for Carter and then turn into a main character with romantic prospects. Obviously sexism worked for the former, but would have been problematic for the latter.

Agreed on what's been said here. I'd add something though. One must also consider that this SG1 episode where McKay first appears (48 hours - S05) was almost 17 years ago, a time where such jokes were plenty on the small screen.

SG overall was very, very, light on the ''politically wrong'' and only brushed the surface of morality.

If you're looking for sexism all you need to do is watch a couple old Treks. But again, I think it's ridicule if anybody here is actually in uproar for fiction material that is decades old.

On a personal note, I think even sexist jokes are fine as long as your interlocutor is okay with it, humor should never be censored no matter what, even dark humor, again as long as (bolded)