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hiro
April 12th, 2010, 08:08 AM
It's just me or i think that everybody is nearly overloading Eli ? In Space specially the military personal.
I hate specially this two parts :

(The one thing that might make a difference is busy working the consoles in the Control Interface Room. Checking his watch, Scott paces the room, sighing anxiously.)

SCOTT: All right, come on, buddy. You've got this.

WALLACE (condescendingly): It's a very complicated lockout programme, OK? I'm going to need some time.

(Young comes back in and hands a rifle to Scott.)


Like it was a simple math problem.


(Young looks round at Eli.)

WALLACE: Maybe ... maybe there's too much interference with all the enemy fire on the shields?

YOUNG: Fix it.

(Eli laughs, a little high-pitched.)

WALLACE: What?! I'm guessing as it is!

Specially i hate this part ! Fix it .. like well we have a enemy ship coming to earth and we also have a super dead laser but when is almost ready to shoot a part of the canon fall apart.
Well so we only have a scientist , a computer scientist here but come on he's a scientist, right? he can fit it ... its all about machines! it doesn't matter if he only has work in the software , if he didn't see the complete system before it goes online .. he has to fix it !!

I'm the only one who thinks this ?

carmencatalina
April 12th, 2010, 08:09 AM
No, I totally hear you. Eli really looked overwhelmed - and I think this is why they do really need Rush. There is no way that Eli can do all this by himself at this point.

Jeffala
April 12th, 2010, 09:35 AM
I agree with him being overwhelmed. One person can't do everything.

Of course, RE: "fix it", what else was Young supposed to tell Eli? "Don't worry about it, it's no big deal."?

SupremeLegate
April 12th, 2010, 09:35 AM
I am just waiting for Eli to reach his breaking point and go off on them all, that would be a fun rant to watch.

FallenAngelII
April 12th, 2010, 09:46 AM
Just another day where the military expected the civilian scientists to be able to perform magic on command. And the military feels under-appreciated? Pah. The scientists are working their behinds off keeping them all alive and they're expected to be able to perform miracles within seconds!

carmencatalina
April 12th, 2010, 09:48 AM
Just another day where the military expected the civilian scientists to be able to perform magic on command. And the military feels under-appreciated? Pah. The scientists are working their behinds off keeping them all alive and they're expected to be able to perform miracles within seconds!

Didn't McKay once say something like that? Of course, he actually could perform miracles in seconds, but still, it is nice to be appreciated.

Jper
April 12th, 2010, 11:25 AM
Just another day where the military expected the civilian scientists to be able to perform magic on command. And the military feels under-appreciated? Pah. The scientists are working their behinds off keeping them all alive and they're expected to be able to perform miracles within seconds!

A bit crude, but this seems to apply to Eli. And to think this was completely different in Air, where it was actually Rush pressuring Eli, and Young relieving him. Now it's completely the other way around. :)

I loathe this Young-Eli relationship. It's not that I find it a mistake by TPTB, or bad writing, it is pretty realistic and good actually, but I think Eli needs to stand up for himself and tell Young to shove it. Especially with Eli spying on the crew in secret for Young. However, seems that is Eli's character, and I like the potential for growth and conflict. :) Great potential for the story and character development. but that's my opinion, of course.


Didn't McKay once say something like that? Of course, he actually could perform miracles in seconds, but still, it is nice to be appreciated.

Yeah, but the whole point is that SGU is not SGA in this aspect. Especially near the end of SGA, this was getting ridiculous and not to mention "done" and exaggerated. Way too over the top. It was always the same, and the tension, suspense was losing under it. You cannot keep doing that. I'm glad SGU is different in this way. :)

Daro
April 12th, 2010, 01:21 PM
Absolutely agree. Eli is pressured and influenced heavily by Young. Young seems to have a hold on him in some way, that Eli cannot break free from even knowing that the man tried to murder Rush.
Military officers know how to motivate and control. It's part of their training, after all, and Eli with all his innocence has no defense against this. He has decided that Rush is the bad guy because he's caught Rush in several lies. He seems to have the morality of a child - lying is bad, no matter what the circumstances or intent.

I think Eli will reach a breaking point very soon. Maybe he won't completely extricate himself from his role as Young's pet scientist, but he may at least regain some control over his life. I would really like him to stop helping Young spy on the civillians. If there's a real reason to do it, fine, but Young seems to be getting Eli to do it on everyone, sort of a "Big Brother is Watching" thing.

....wouldn't it just blow our minds if Eli ended up snapping and someday, a few seasons in the future, he becomes a villain? What a twist! ;)

Xeno
April 12th, 2010, 04:53 PM
I'm seeing Eli become more fluent with the ship's systems as time goes on (obviously) if Young ever lets him out of the Kino room. I'd love to see him on par with Rush's knowledge of the ship at some point.

Badhron
April 12th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Didn't McKay once say something like that? Of course, he actually could perform miracles in seconds, but still, it is nice to be appreciated.

He said this in the Siege: "They don't think they need us, right up until the point that they need us, and then they need us."

carmencatalina
April 12th, 2010, 07:25 PM
He said this in the Siege: "They don't think they need us, right up until the point that they need us, and then they need us."

That's exactly the scene I was trying to remember - thank you!

Avenger
April 12th, 2010, 09:43 PM
I agree with him being overwhelmed. One person can't do everything.

Of course, RE: "fix it", what else was Young supposed to tell Eli? "Don't worry about it, it's no big deal."?

Agreed. Young telling Eli to "Fix it" was more about stopping Eli from whining and keeping him focused on working.

Taiko
April 12th, 2010, 09:51 PM
Agreed. Young telling Eli to "Fix it" was more about stopping Eli from whining and keeping him focused on working.
I just saw a Colonel and Master Sergeant doing the same thing on The Unit while their hometown was under poison gas attack

yanna
April 12th, 2010, 10:37 PM
Of course, RE: "fix it", what else was Young supposed to tell Eli? "Don't worry about it, it's no big deal."?

He could have said "Can you fix it?" instead of barking orders. Eli doesn't whine and doesn't need handling. He was giving Young his assessment of the situation and Young was his usual rude self.

I don't understand why Eli has become Young's lackey. Perhaps he's looking for a father figure but in that respect he couldn't have possibly chosen more wrong. Young is only using him and overworking him. I wouldn't be surprised if Eli snaps. His reaction to the coup was unbelievable. Knowing what he does about Young I can't fathom why he follows his orders.

escyos
April 13th, 2010, 02:12 AM
eli is not gonna go off and rant, he will go mad and vent the ship to space....killing everyone...he then replaces everyone with photos of them taped to kinos

Jeffala
April 13th, 2010, 08:11 AM
He could have said "Can you fix it?" instead of barking orders. Eli doesn't whine and doesn't need handling. He was giving Young his assessment of the situation and Young was his usual rude self.

But asking, "Can you fix it?" leads to (and this is the case with almost every person you were to ask the question of) "Maybe..." and two minutes on how it could be done and then an "Okay try that" from Young.

"Fix it" is quick, to the point, and--at least in my opinion--carte blanche to do whatever you need to do to get the job done without bothering to waste time asking for further permission. Do the job and get it done and don't waste time waffling over maybe's and if I tried's.

yanna
April 13th, 2010, 11:14 AM
But asking, "Can you fix it?" leads to (and this is the case with almost every person you were to ask the question of) "Maybe..." and two minutes on how it could be done and then an "Okay try that" from Young.

Eli's answer was "I'm guessing as it is" He would have said the same if Young said "Can you fix it" instead of just ordering Eli to fix the Magic Stones.

Lahela
April 13th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Young's "Fix it!" in Divided was not the first time he'd taken that attitude to work by the scientists on board (or even the first time he'd yelled at them to "Fix it!"), so the circumstances of that one particular instance are irrelevant. He comes across as being so utterly ignorant of how science works that he thinks if he yells loud enough things will just fall into place like well oiled soldiers, but all he's going to do is undermine Eli. Or at least realism would dictate that that would be the outcome, but this is fiction, so...

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 13th, 2010, 12:48 PM
Lahela,

Young does have a rather blase attidute regading the work of the science team. However, I did love how he shamed Volker and the Engineer who's name I forget into working a bit more diligently by pointing out that the "College dropout" was "Working the problem" while they whined "It couldn't be done."

Jeffala
April 13th, 2010, 01:13 PM
Commanders command.

yanna
April 13th, 2010, 01:33 PM
Commanders command.

I still hope that next time he yells at a scientist like that they'll tell him to come fix it himself. I was glad when Eli told him he shouldn't have left Rush behind in Space. Too bad Eli seemed to have lost that backbone in Divided.

Daro
April 13th, 2010, 02:04 PM
I still hope that next time he yells at a scientist like that they'll tell him to come fix it himself. I was glad when Eli told him he shouldn't have left Rush behind in Space. Too bad Eli seemed to have lost that backbone in Divided.

Hehe, I was very proud of Eli when he said that. But now I think part of Eli's problem is that Rush came back and backed up Young's version of events, and now he's telling the truth. Eli has caught Rush in so many lies, I think he just doesn't know who to believe anymore for sure. He hasn't caught Young lying, just being sneaky. He may even feel guilty for saying what he did to Young, if he believes that Rush was not deliberately left behind.

Lahela
April 13th, 2010, 10:09 PM
Lahela,

Young does have a rather blase attidute regading the work of the science team. However, I did love how he shamed Volker and the Engineer who's name I forget into working a bit more diligently by pointing out that the "College dropout" was "Working the problem" while they whined "It couldn't be done."

That was a priceless moment - it showed how capable Eli is of thinking outside the box, which, in this situation, is certainly a valuable skill! :)

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 14th, 2010, 03:55 AM
Lahela,


That was a priceless moment - it showed how capable Eli is of thinking outside the box, which, in this situation, is certainly a valuable skill! :)

So, how long will Eli retain that skill before he becomes as hidebound as the rest? Is this something truly creative minds retain all their lives or does it pass with age?

pipi
April 14th, 2010, 05:10 AM
I am just waiting for Eli to reach his breaking point and go off on them all, that would be a fun rant to watch.

Indeed.

Maybe they'll implement more recreational activities. Ah! the stones. Eli is ordered to go back to Earth and relief himself. lol

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 14th, 2010, 08:01 AM
It's just me or i think that everybody is nearly overloading Eli ? In Space specially the military personal.....

I'm the only one who thinks this ?
overloading? Yes. The military acts, it's one of the things that they do. Something needs done, they do it. The flip side of that is that they can't really do anything on the Destiny, but they've seen that Eli can. Of course it doesn't mean that Eli can do everything and no, not everything is a simple math problem, but Eli is all there is to DO something, so I get where they're coming from. If they didn't think he was capable, they wouldn't be looking to him for anything at all.

blackluster
April 14th, 2010, 08:43 AM
I remember when Scott tried this on Rush shortly after they arrived on Destiny in relation to the air problem. Rush tells him flatout that his military style of ordering him in such matters was better left for people who didn't know any better. This is the line Eli should take. Young's poor tactical decisions stem mainly from the fact that he doesn't understand the limitations of the ship. Eli should probably be a bit more proactive in getting that across.

Lahela
April 14th, 2010, 09:55 AM
So, how long will Eli retain that skill before he becomes as hidebound as the rest? Is this something truly creative minds retain all their lives or does it pass with age?

Or do they have it verbally pummelled out of them? :(

Jper
April 14th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Commanders command.

Exactly why Young isn't fit for the job to lead the people on Destiny. He should be a leader and lead, not only a commander and command.

Jeffala
April 14th, 2010, 12:22 PM
Exactly why Young isn't fit for the job to lead the people on Destiny. He should be a leader and lead, not only a commander and command.

And probably why he wasn't the one who was supposed to go and lead the mission.

Of course, from what we've seen of Lou Diamond Phillips' character, he wouldn't have made a very good leader, either.

Jper
April 14th, 2010, 12:29 PM
And probably why he wasn't the one who was supposed to go and lead the mission.

Actually... Young was the first choice, but didn't want to go. So they got Telford instead. It's mentioned/explained in the first episodes.



Of course, from what we've seen of Lou Diamond Phillips' character, he wouldn't have made a very good leader, either.

Uhmmm, no comment, let's get back on topic. ;) :D

hiro
April 15th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Of course, from what we've seen of Lou Diamond Phillips' character, he wouldn't have made a very good leader, either.

Agree ! Young is not the best leader .. but at list is better than Telford .

garhkal
April 15th, 2010, 04:30 PM
I am just waiting for Eli to reach his breaking point and go off on them all, that would be a fun rant to watch.

I would hope eli would finally grow a backbone, rather tha just walk off in a huff. BUT from how i have perceived him to date, that is what i see him doing when he hits that spot.


I still hope that next time he yells at a scientist like that they'll tell him to come fix it himself. I was glad when Eli told him he shouldn't have left Rush behind in Space. Too bad Eli seemed to have lost that backbone in Divided.

That would be great..
Young to eli "Well fix it already"
Eli to young "If you think it is that easy, why don't you get your ass over here and do it yourself~!"

Jeffala
April 15th, 2010, 09:21 PM
That would be great..
Young to eli "Well fix it already"
Eli to young "If you think it is that easy, why don't you get your ass over here and do it yourself~!"

The problem with the logic here is that Eli, Rush, and the other scientists seem to exist for little more than figuring things out (with the exceptions that Rush exists to be untrustworthy and get people killed-the guy who sat in the chair-and the Eli is also the ship's Spymaster). It's what they do. If they weren't needed to figure things out, they wouldn't be on the show or they'd be just be another Chloe.

Pharaoh Atem
April 15th, 2010, 09:23 PM
I am just waiting for Eli to reach his breaking point and go off on them all, that would be a fun rant to watch.

:D indeed and david blue can pull it off

Phenom
April 16th, 2010, 02:59 AM
"Excuse me Eli I was just wondering if it wasn't too much trouble, do you mind having a look at this and trying to get it working again?" Do people really think something like this should have been said?

There is nothing wrong with the orders given by Young. He was acting in an autocratic leadership situation, which does not allow for subordinates to be babied. Orders are given in a short, sharp and shiny manner to get the job done in a situation where time is usually of the essence. If Eli felt agrieved because Young didn't say please then he needs to grow a pair.

Daro
April 16th, 2010, 03:08 AM
"Excuse me Eli I was just wondering if it wasn't too much trouble, do you mind having a look at this and trying to get it working again?" Do people really think something like this should have been said?

There is nothing wrong with the orders given by Young. He was acting in an autocratic leadership situation, which does not allow for subordinates to be babied. Orders are given in a short, sharp and shiny manner to get the job done in a situation where time is usually of the essence. If Eli felt agrieved because Young didn't say please then he needs to grow a pair.

Yes.

Lahela
April 16th, 2010, 03:16 AM
"Excuse me Eli I was just wondering if it wasn't too much trouble, do you mind having a look at this and trying to get it working again?" Do people really think something like this should have been said?

There is nothing wrong with the orders given by Young. He was acting in an autocratic leadership situation, which does not allow for subordinates to be babied. Orders are given in a short, sharp and shiny manner to get the job done in a situation where time is usually of the essence. If Eli felt agrieved because Young didn't say please then he needs to grow a pair.

Hollering "Fix it!" at someone who was in the process of attempting to do so and who is clearly not anywhere near being expert enough to just punch the right buttons isn't "giving orders". It's losing self-control, it's showing an utter lack of respect and, above all, a complete and total ignorance of the situation. Nobody has ever said that Eli should be babied, that would be ludicrous, but Young's treatment of him is far from acceptable. He's not a magician, this isn't SGA where yelling is the best way to get the scientist to pull their arses out of the fire at the last second, he's an MIT dropout doing his best to learn what he can as quickly as he can.

Yes, Eli needs to grow a pair, but Young needs to gain at least the most basic understanding of how science works if he thinks he will ever be anywhere near capable of commanding the science crew on the ship.

Daro
April 16th, 2010, 03:23 AM
Hollering "Fix it!" at someone who was in the process of attempting to do so and who is clearly not anywhere near being expert enough to just punch the right buttons isn't "giving orders". It's losing self-control, it's showing an utter lack of respect and, above all, a complete and total ignorance of the situation. Nobody has ever said that Eli should be babied, that would be ludicrous, but Young's treatment of him is far from acceptable. He's not a magician, this isn't SGA where yelling is the best way to get the scientist to pull their arses out of the fire at the last second, he's an MIT dropout doing his best to learn what he can as quickly as he can.

Yes, Eli needs to grow a pair, but Young needs to gain at least the most basic understanding of how science works if he thinks he will ever be anywhere near capable of commanding the science crew on the ship.

Young does need to wisen up. By his ignorance, the only scientist he has control over is Eli, which may force Eli to produce results in some situations that he might not have otherwise. In this episode, the pressure shows as Eli is unable to commit to a decision of what to do. His lack of confidence should be something he works on (the balls thing) and something Young is aware of. Meanwhile, Young should, as you say, learn something about science. Before, he had Sgt. Riley to kind of act as a go-between. But Riley has been out for a while now.

While Young is unable to communicate effectively with the science team, he'll never be able to interact with most of them except through Rush. Which means he'll be blindsided again if Rush pulls one of his tricks.

Phenom
April 16th, 2010, 03:41 AM
Hollering "Fix it!" at someone who was in the process of attempting to do so and who is clearly not anywhere near being expert enough to just punch the right buttons isn't "giving orders". It's losing self-control, it's showing an utter lack of respect and, above all, a complete and total ignorance of the situation. Nobody has ever said that Eli should be babied, that would be ludicrous, but Young's treatment of him is far from acceptable. He's not a magician, this isn't SGA where yelling is the best way to get the scientist to pull their arses out of the fire at the last second, he's an MIT dropout doing his best to learn what he can as quickly as he can.

Yes, Eli needs to grow a pair, but Young needs to gain at least the most basic understanding of how science works if he thinks he will ever be anywhere near capable of commanding the science crew on the ship.

Liked the SGA line... nice. Perhaps some common ground where Young tones it down a little and Eli grows a pair would be the most efficient way for them to work.

They do expect a lot from Eli given his credentials, but perhaps it is because he has shown himself to be a much better problem solver than those with the credentials on board. What he doesn't have, is the experience of working under stressful environments. To put it simply, Young has thrown him in the deep end and he is going to sink or swim. So far he is keeping his head above water, barely!

Lahela
April 16th, 2010, 03:49 AM
Liked the SGA line... nice.

It was just a comparison of the different ways they work in the different shows. No offense was intended to anyone, or to SGA (which, I'm sure you'll recall, I loved).


Perhaps some common ground where Young tones it down a little and Eli grows a pair would be the most efficient way for them to work.

They do expect a lot from Eli given his credentials, but perhaps it is because he has shown himself to be a much better problem solver than those with the credentials on board. What he doesn't have, is the experience of working under stressful environments. To put it simply, Young has thrown him in the deep end and he is going to sink or swim. So far he is keeping his head above water, barely!


Yes, he's shown that he is able to solve problems by approaching them differently to the way others might, what he doesn't have is any experience with Ancient systems other than what he saw in a video game, or the education necessary to adequately do the job Young has lumbered him with. He's essentially the work-experience kid, learning on the job under very trying circumstances.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 16th, 2010, 05:17 AM
Phenom,


"Excuse me Eli I was just wondering if it wasn't too much trouble, do you mind having a look at this and trying to get it working again?" Do people really think something like this should have been said?

There is nothing wrong with the orders given by Young. He was acting in an autocratic leadership situation, which does not allow for subordinates to be babied. Orders are given in a short, sharp and shiny manner to get the job done in a situation where time is usually of the essence. If Eli felt agrieved because Young didn't say please then he needs to grow a pair.

When Young says something like, "Fix it." It implies the person he's talking to wasn't already trying to do that anyway. It's an unnessesary order. Saying something like, "Can you fix it?" puts a non-military person in a better frame of mind regarding the commander. None of the Scientists on the Destiny are stupid. If they're in a firefight and the weapons or shields cut out telling them to "Fix it" is completely unnecessary. I imagine they're working on just that as quickly as they can. They aren't robots waiting for the proper command sequence to get started on their assigned tasks.

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 16th, 2010, 07:06 AM
"Excuse me Eli I was just wondering if it wasn't too much trouble, do you mind having a look at this and trying to get it working again?" Do people really think something like this should have been said?

There is nothing wrong with the orders given by Young. He was acting in an autocratic leadership situation, which does not allow for subordinates to be babied. Orders are given in a short, sharp and shiny manner to get the job done in a situation where time is usually of the essence. If Eli felt agrieved because Young didn't say please then he needs to grow a pair.
a second yessing for this :D


Phenom,



When Young says something like, "Fix it." It implies the person he's talking to wasn't already trying to do that anyway. It's an unnessesary order. Saying something like, "Can you fix it?" puts a non-military person in a better frame of mind regarding the commander. None of the Scientists on the Destiny are stupid. If they're in a firefight and the weapons or shields cut out telling them to "Fix it" is completely unnecessary. I imagine they're working on just that as quickly as they can. They aren't robots waiting for the proper command sequence to get started on their assigned tasks.

Ever tried to fix something for someone who really needs that something fixed but they have no way to a) do it themselves or b) really understand what you're doing?

I have, and I'm sure anyone that's ever done any sort of consulting or support work would know what this is like.

The person you're dealing with really has no idea what you're doing. They don't know how it works. But they badly need it to work. Maybe they've just lost all their files and it's needed for their work, but they're scared and out of control of the situation. So I get it, on both sides. Young needs something to be done that he isn't capable of doing himself. He absolutely needs it, and the only person he's got is Eli. I didn't see it as ordering or demanding, I saw it, from my own experience, as a sort of desperation. So I get it. I'm glad Eli snapped back at him though but I'm even more pleased that he didn't get all whiny and stop working but kept doing what it is that he does well.

Mr.Xcelent
April 16th, 2010, 01:49 PM
Young is aware of these thing. And if you recall he said in Air "If we are to survive this, he is going to need every one to step up." He is still trying to feel out what there all capable of. After all it is like he said " this isn't boot camp, in boot camp you get a second chance to correct your mistakes". And about using Eli to spy on every one, given recent event do you still think he was wrong. They mutinied.This reminds me a few day ago some idiot was saying how the NYPD was going overboard with the Anti Terrorist Tact training that been going on here in NY. A few day later some terrorist get caught with plans to attack the subway. Do think they where over reacting are thinking thing through. I'm sure the civilians wont feel that way when the smurfs get there hands on one of them and tries to prob there back door, then they'll be screaming for a military rescue. They have better hope they don't hold a grudge for locking them up on the other side of the ship with no supplies. After all that gonna be the end result of all this infighting.

Kyarra
April 16th, 2010, 02:02 PM
I am just waiting for Eli to reach his breaking point and go off on them all, that would be a fun rant to watch.

:indeed: :)