The Civilian Coup'd'ta was wholly unjustified.

[An-Alteran]

Camille's argument was that the military was "refusing to submit to civilian leadership like free civilized nations".

There are several flaws with this argument:

1. The military ARE under civilian rule. They are United States Armed Forces personnel under the Constitution of the United States of America.

2. Destiny is not a nation or society. It is the evacuation site for a base run by the US military.

3. The Scientists and few civilians (with the exception of Camille) on Destiny are employees of the US government, many via the US Military, and under said nation's protection. This is the same situation as on the military research base that contacted Destiny to begin with, from which they evacuated.

4. Camille is a Civilian Oversight representative, not a Civilian leader like the Senator was, and thus has little actual authority.

5. None of the civilians have any qualification for any sort of actual leadership.

Camille's argument utilized a total distortion of reality to make a case for the organized military force on the ship to yield in subservience to a rag-tag group of civilian refugees.

This argument was unfounded, endangered the crew, and instigated a violent confrontation.

[ammit]

Camille's argument was that the military was "refusing to submit to civilian leadership like free civilized nations".

There are several flaws with this argument:

1. The military ARE under civilian rule. They are United States Armed Forces personnel under the Constitution of the United States of America.

2. Destiny is not a nation or society. It is the evacuation site for a base run by the US military.

3. The Scientists and few civilians (with the exception of Camille) on Destiny are employees of the US government, many via the US Military, and under said nation's protection. This is the same situation as on the military research base that contacted Destiny to begin with, from which they evacuated.

4. Camille is a Civilian Oversight representative, not a Civilian leader like the Senator was, and thus has little actual authority.

5. None of the civilians have any qualification for any sort of actual leadership.

Camille's argument utilized a total distortion of reality to make a case for the organized military force on the ship to yield in subservience to a rag-tag group of civilian refugees.

This argument was unfounded, endangered the crew, and instigated a violent confrontation.

Haha, I just started another thread talking about the exact same thing. This is a boat, ship, whatever, for crying out loud!

[Specter177]

Green for you! That was a very clear and well thought out argument.

[escyos]

i think that they also thought the military was withholding supplies for themselves.

and rush seems to have been wanting to find out how to control the ship and get them home, and then suddenly the young appears to have gotten rid of rush and the military wont let them figure out how to get home, but to repair the ship.

[Fridgefiend]

i think that they also thought the military was withholding supplies for themselves.

and rush seems to have been wanting to find out how to control the ship and get them home, and then suddenly the young appears to have gotten rid of rush and the military wont let them figure out how to get home, but to repair the ship.

I don't think any of them actually thought Rush was going to try to get them home though. Hell that's one of the reasons they don't like him. He's arrogant and got them stranded etc.

Young was the one trying to get everyone home not Rush. Rush was just the only one with a chance of figuring it out.

I think it was just more that they thought the military control wasn't fair. Although I'm not sure what they were complaining about. The only incident that stands out to me was in Air part 3 when Greer shot Volker. Maybe I'm just not recalling the others.

[escyos]

I don't think any of them actually thought Rush was going to try to get them home though. Hell that's one of the reasons they don't like him. He's arrogant and got them stranded etc.

Young was the one trying to get everyone home not Rush. Rush was just the only one with a chance of figuring it out.

I think it was just more that they thought the military control wasn't fair. Although I'm not sure what they were complaining about. The only incident that stands out to me was in Air part 3 when Greer shot Volker. Maybe I'm just not recalling the others.

perhaps, but rush wanted to use the chair to learn to control the ship, Young was against it completely. Plus young was getting them to ration supplies and settle in for the long run, most of them wanted to go home as quickly as possible.

[Wayston]

I think the only justification is that (if I remember correctly) Young was relieved from command in the previous episodes but chose to ignore that order, although my memory is a bit blurry on these events. Other than that there is indeed no justification, they should conform with the command structure ordered by earth

[Popcorn]

Camille's argument was that the military was "refusing to submit to civilian leadership like free civilized nations".

There are several flaws with this argument:

1. The military ARE under civilian rule. They are United States Armed Forces personnel under the Constitution of the United States of America.

2. Destiny is not a nation or society. It is the evacuation site for a base run by the US military.

3. The Scientists and few civilians (with the exception of Camille) on Destiny are employees of the US government, many via the US Military, and under said nation's protection. This is the same situation as on the military research base that contacted Destiny to begin with, from which they evacuated.

4. Camille is a Civilian Oversight representative, not a Civilian leader like the Senator was, and thus has little actual authority.

5. None of the civilians have any qualification for any sort of actual leadership.

Camille's argument utilized a total distortion of reality to make a case for the organized military force on the ship to yield in subservience to a rag-tag group of civilian refugees.

This argument was unfounded, endangered the crew, and instigated a violent confrontation.

Finally someone with commonsense. Especially number 3, I get tired of people saying how the military has no right to order the scientist and civilians around. They are on a government payroll, The military has every right to order them around. Take the episode in SG-1 with Carter and McKay when they first meet I think at the end how he said they couldn't tell him where to go and Carter pointed out that little gem you just did.

and rush seems to have been wanting to find out how to control the ship and get them home, and then suddenly the young appears to have gotten rid of rush and the military wont let them figure out how to get home, but to repair the ship.

lol Rush wanting to get them home? Fat chance his ONLY interest is the Destiny, He will never actually try to get them home, Due to the CHANCE he maybe replaced as 'lead' scientist on the Destiny.

perhaps, but rush wanted to use the chair to learn to control the ship, Young was against it completely. Plus young was getting them to ration supplies and settle in for the long run, most of them wanted to go home as quickly as possible.

I have to correct you on this one, Rush NEVER wanted to use the chair. He wanted to use someone else as guinea pig for the chair. Rush is a selfish person he does what is best for himself. Young is rationing supplies because he is a survivor he thinks ahead he wants to get everyone back to earth but just in case they need supplies.


I don't know what show some of you are watching that believes rush is in the right for any of his actions but it must not be SGU.

Stranding EVERYONE on board the Destiny by dialing it instead of another gate.
He known damn well once he told those scientist that the chair could get them home one of them was gonna sit in it and turn out like a veggie.
Not telling everyone that the ship was gonna refuel with the sun and not fly right into it.
Framing Young for murder
Not telling anyone about the damn tracker in his chest
Trying to take over the ship
Was going to leave Young and Scott to die in the shuttle after being told about the clamps.

I am not saying Young is the best leader but especially now since they have actual bad guys you need a commander who will think about everyone else and not just himself *Cough* Rush *Cough*.. The IOA woman right now she is too ignorant to lead.

As far as the Mutiny goes wow.. Damn stupid scientist and civilians think about it who would they run to for help when they ran into actual trouble they are stuck on a ship knowing their are bad guys looking for them and they want to piss of the only people who can protect them? wow just wow.

OK I am done ranting.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

An-Alteran,

Camille's argument was that the military was "refusing to submit to civilian leadership like free civilized nations".

There are several flaws with this argument:

1. The military ARE under civilian rule. They are United States Armed Forces personnel under the Constitution of the United States of America.

Which is why Col. Young has been picked up and held pending Courts Martial for attacking Col. Telford? It may be true but it has serious practical limitations.

2. Destiny is not a nation or society. It is the evacuation site for a base run by the US military.

Until they get home in their own bodies its the only "society" they've got. There are any number of very small subsitence level tribes around the world that aren't much larger than the Destiny evacuees that qualify as "societies".

3. The Scientists and few civilians (with the exception of Camille) on Destiny are employees of the US government, many via the US Military, and under said nation's protection. This is the same situation as on the military research base that contacted Destiny to begin with, from which they evacuated.

And? Most of these people aren't military and aren't subject to the UCMJ. They should be able to decide for themselves whats going to happen to them.

4. Camille is a Civilian Oversight representative, not a Civilian leader like the Senator was, and thus has little actual authority.

Wray, presumably, wouldn't be maintaining her authority with men and women with guns. If the other Civilians and military want her to step down from the leadership role I think she'll have to step down.

5. None of the civilians have any qualification for any sort of actual leadership.

So, only qualified people as you choose not to define it should have positions of authority and command in this very small society. Eli, no college degree and no military training, was handed a pistol and given charge of half the away team by Col. Young's nominal second in command. You might say that exactly what will happen. I say, look you take what you've got some will step up some will not. That's what happens in these situations.

Camille's argument utilized a total distortion of reality to make a case for the organized military force on the ship to yield in subservience to a rag-tag group of civilian refugees.

This argument was unfounded, endangered the crew, and instigated a violent confrontation.

I do think she over stepped ignoring the biggest weapon the civilians have. The civilians possess the knowledge and skills that are allowing these people to survive. Rather than take drastic action they simply should have staged a work stoppage. If the military attempts to force them to work point out that the very reason the work stoppage is effective is why they can't kill someone to force them or others to work.

[reddevil18]

Indeed. But it's coup d'état.

[Xarn]

Stranding EVERYONE on board the Destiny by dialing it instead of another gate.
He known damn well once he told those scientist that the chair could get them home one of them was gonna sit in it and turn out like a veggie.
Not telling everyone that the ship was gonna refuel with the sun and not fly right into it.
Framing Young for murder
Not telling anyone about the damn tracker in his chest
Trying to take over the ship
Was going to leave Young and Scott to die in the shuttle after being told about the clamps.

No arguments about first one, but:
I strongly doubt he wanted the scientist to sit there. My reasons? Rush wants to learn as much as possible about destiny, its controls, tech, everything. By having scientist sit there when he is alone, he gets nothing. (Now if the scientist "volunteered" to sit there under supervision and monitored, I would have doubts...)
Yeah, because by letting the shuttle go and be potentially lost, he had SO much to gain, like losing people, supplies, having Young still around (Even more paranoid about him than before) ...
No arguments there
Greyish area. (While wrong, quite understandable)
Not really, while he was one of the "mutineers", he wasn't the actual leader. (Even though he was quite instrumental) So you either have to judge all (well almost) civilians for the uprising, or let him be.
No arguments there (Well except that getting rid of Young as leader would be good deed)

I do think she over stepped ignoring the biggest weapon the civilians have. The civilians possess the knowledge and skills that are allowing these people to survive. Rather than take drastic action they simply should have staged a work stoppage. If the military attempts to force them to work point out that the very reason the work stoppage is effective is why they can't kill someone to force them or others to work.

Or they could just decide that next time they are willing to kill. (If this mutiny wasn't meant to be w/o deaths of any sort, there would currently be quite a lot less military around) Because in Destiny-like setting, it is the smart guy who hold all the trumps.

[Phenom]

Camille's argument was that the military was "refusing to submit to civilian leadership like free civilized nations".

There are several flaws with this argument:

1. The military ARE under civilian rule. They are United States Armed Forces personnel under the Constitution of the United States of America.

2. Destiny is not a nation or society. It is the evacuation site for a base run by the US military.

3. The Scientists and few civilians (with the exception of Camille) on Destiny are employees of the US government, many via the US Military, and under said nation's protection. This is the same situation as on the military research base that contacted Destiny to begin with, from which they evacuated.

4. Camille is a Civilian Oversight representative, not a Civilian leader like the Senator was, and thus has little actual authority.

5. None of the civilians have any qualification for any sort of actual leadership.

Camille's argument utilized a total distortion of reality to make a case for the organized military force on the ship to yield in subservience to a rag-tag group of civilian refugees.

This argument was unfounded, endangered the crew, and instigated a violent confrontation.

Couldn't agree more. She is just a power hungry politician who simply wants to be in charge, no matter if it is in the best interest of the crew. Her arguments made no sense and was simply Pollie spin to try and talk her way into power.

[zarian]

Remember everyone Camille's is trying to grab for power because her IOA bosses told her too, and she herself seems to want to have power.

So my guess is she is using the frustrations the civi's have and got them to agree to this.

[FallenAngelII]

There are, like, a bazillion threads about this already, but alright:
I stopped reading after #1. No they're not. Young is dictator! His decision is final and it's the only one that matters. People can advise him, but in the end, his decision is the only one that matters.

Also, hey, I'm pretty sure that U.S. Law states that murder is illegal. And he tried to commit that. Greer committed a few crimes himself on Icarus Base, but he's going unpunished. Pistol-whipping a non-combattant who's just standing there is illegal, but I guess Young will let it slide for James for just that one time.

It is not Civilian and they are not following anyone's law but Young's.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Camille's argument was that the military was "refusing to submit to civilian leadership like free civilized nations".

There are several flaws with this argument:

1. The military ARE under civilian rule. They are United States Armed Forces personnel under the Constitution of the United States of America.

2. Destiny is not a nation or society. It is the evacuation site for a base run by the US military.

3. The Scientists and few civilians (with the exception of Camille) on Destiny are employees of the US government, many via the US Military, and under said nation's protection. This is the same situation as on the military research base that contacted Destiny to begin with, from which they evacuated.

4. Camille is a Civilian Oversight representative, not a Civilian leader like the Senator was, and thus has little actual authority.

5. None of the civilians have any qualification for any sort of actual leadership.

Camille's argument utilized a total distortion of reality to make a case for the organized military force on the ship to yield in subservience to a rag-tag group of civilian refugees.

This argument was unfounded, endangered the crew, and instigated a violent confrontation.

the military on Destiny are under civilian leadership, it's just not the leadership Wray would like as she doesn't appear to wield much control. And I agree with you, none of the civilians are qualified to lead, at least not at this stage of the game.