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GateWorld
April 26th, 2004, 01:59 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/112.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/112.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#006699"><B>FIRE AND WATER</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 112</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/graphics/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Daniel is taken captive by an alien with a hidden agenda, while SG-1 is made to believe he is dead.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/112.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

KorbenDirewolf
May 11th, 2004, 11:29 AM
Ah... Fire and Water. I've got the say the reports of Jackson's death in the teaser really had me going. I was really hoping he was gone for good. But then, the mind manipulation plot worked pretty good. The rest of the team knew he was dead but also seemed to know he wasn't dead.

bcmilco
May 11th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Did anyone notice how the "fish-guy" (can't remember his name :S) at the end said "What fate Sha're" And yet NO where in the episode does Daniel ever say her name to fish-guy he always calls her his wife. :p

klae
May 11th, 2004, 01:53 PM
good point. sounds like a scene or at least a line was cut.

bcmilco
May 11th, 2004, 02:18 PM
Yeah, that was my guess, I just thought it was funny. :)

KorbenDirewolf
May 11th, 2004, 03:43 PM
can't say I really remember if he ever said it or not. Have to watch it again sometime.

Sierra Golf 1
May 12th, 2004, 05:45 AM
Maybe it was an understood that Daniel told fish-man Shau'ri's name while the show was focusing on people on Earth back at the SGC

bcmilco
May 12th, 2004, 11:41 AM
You mean it happened "off camera" :p
No I watched it several times and I never got the impression that they had had some big conversation where he might have mentioned her name.

I say they probably cut a scene or a few lines and she never got mentioned.

omnian
May 16th, 2004, 07:08 AM
I loved this episode. They should definitely have Nem reappear again. Wonder what he's up to now?

Orb
May 16th, 2004, 08:15 AM
Maybe he picked up her name when he was reading Daniel's mind. Just a guess.......

bcmilco
May 16th, 2004, 01:10 PM
Yeah, but he wasn't really reading Daniels mind, Daniel had to speak what he was recalling so Nem (thank you omnian for the name ;)) could hear what happened to his mate.

SeaBee
June 26th, 2004, 03:20 AM
Nice episode. I would also like to see a return to the character Nem. He looked like he could be a useful ally.

Bagpuss
June 27th, 2004, 12:56 AM
I was very saddened by Nem's lonely existence. I don't think he was a bad guy,but just driven to desperation.(OK,"Girly" moment. :o )

KorbenDirewolf
June 27th, 2004, 06:06 PM
Yeah.. Juding from the little we've seen the Oannes might make good allies someday. If they ever show up again.

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 06:42 PM
Does any one know the fish guy's race? I was thinking these might be the furlings.

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 07:05 AM
they were called the Oannes(or Oanne) The hand device looked like a ribbon device. They seemed really advanced and I think it's a mistake not to have them in SG1.

He's pissed at the Goa'uld so maybe he would help us with some technology.

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 04:27 PM
When they thought Danny was dead they floated a reef in the gates event horizon. Has there been another evidence of things floating in the event horizon of the gate?

aAnubiSs
July 15th, 2004, 05:00 PM
I don't think so. The only time I can remember is Carters dogtag in A Matter Of Time, but it got sucked in, which isn't too hard to understand since there was a black hole on the other side :)

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 05:23 PM
Things floating in the event horizon doesn't make much sense to me.

crimsontide101
August 4th, 2004, 12:12 PM
It would be great if the writers used the Fish guy in SG atlantis as a sort of water based creature that lives outside the city

VirtualCLD
August 4th, 2004, 12:17 PM
It would be interesting, but it wouldn't make too much sense, plus they like to and keep the shows somewhat seperate.

Gorthaur
August 4th, 2004, 12:59 PM
Fish guy nem was creepy. :S

spacemonkey69
August 13th, 2004, 07:29 AM
i love this episode, great acting, but it was quite heartbreaking
and danny looked quite fly!

aAnubiSs
August 13th, 2004, 08:53 AM
I don't think the Oannes should be in Atlantis right away, since they (atleast Nem) hates the Goa'uld. But if SG1 and Oannes starts working together we should tell them about Atlantis and let them live there.

Roatbaum
August 31st, 2004, 10:29 AM
I think this was one of my favorite episodes. I felt so bad for the guy, and Daniel came to feel for him too, which is so Daniel. And what the rest of them were going though, I think it was a really sort of bonding episode, for the memebers of the team. It was one of my favorites of all of them.

Replicarter
September 4th, 2004, 06:48 AM
Very good information episode. I didn’t like the fish guy, he creped me out. He looked like the guy on that episode of Farscape which is very similar, how Farscape ancients were friends with earth.

CoffeeGirl
September 6th, 2004, 04:37 AM
A little question: I was just watching "Fire and Water" again and during the wake at Jack's house, there's this beautiful guitar music playing in the background. Does anyone have the DVD and can take a look at the credits and tell me if there is any information on that music? I'd love to know the title or who wrote it. Thanks!

omnian
September 6th, 2004, 05:51 AM
There's nothing about it in the credits. I'm guessing it was just some piece made specially for it or something like that.

Iskandra
September 6th, 2004, 12:10 PM
There's nothing about it in the credits. I'm guessing it was just some piece made specially for it or something like that.
Pity. In movies, they always have to credit every little bit of music they used....

TheTroj
September 6th, 2004, 05:53 PM
I thought this episode is very similar to The First Ones...with Daniel being captured and then feeling for his captor.

Uncle Dick
September 21st, 2004, 08:30 AM
It was one of my least favorite episodes when I first watched it, but after subsequent viewings, it's now one of my favorites. SG-1's reaction to Daniel's death is beautiful, and he gets a far better send off here than he did in Meridian, IMHO.

I get the impression that, although the water dude reached an understanding with Daniel, he's not particularly interested in maintaining ties with humans. I hope it stays that way. TPTB write themselves into a corner when they give Earth too many powerful allies.

SeaBee
September 25th, 2004, 04:48 AM
I get the impression that, although the water dude reached an understanding with Daniel, he's not particularly interested in maintaining ties with humans. I hope it stays that way. TPTB write themselves into a corner when they give Earth too many powerful allies.
Very true, too many powerful enemies and Earth would just become passengers. Or parasites, taking the technology they needed from those more powerful or advanced. A bit like the Goa'uld, if you think about it. :)

Daniel's Sister
October 20th, 2004, 12:29 PM
I love this episode. When I first saw this episode, I was like, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But now that I know He's okay, I'm good. ;)

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
October 21st, 2004, 05:39 PM
It was a good episode, not among the best but I LOVED that scene in the infirmary. AT looked soooo heart-broken and all. It brought tears to my eyes. And the whole bonding thing was one of the best ideas TPTB ever had :)

The send off ceremony was beautiful BTW. I heard it was done by real USAF people. Very nice :)

zats
October 29th, 2004, 06:13 PM
One of these days, if I ever find myself with a total lack of anything to do, I am going to write a "Nem the Fishy-Guy Meets Finding Nemo - the Musical"!

It's sort of scary, where my mind wanders if I let it...

Elite Anubis Guard
October 30th, 2004, 02:51 AM
well this was an interesting episode, I enjoyed the idea that more aliens had been to earth.

id love to see more of the oannes!

.:Lemon:.
October 30th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Its one of those episodes I haven't watched that often. It's quite interesting though. I'd like to see more of the Oannes aswell, even though Nem was kinda creepy :S

Gothann
November 9th, 2004, 04:48 AM
Things floating in the event horizon doesn't make much sense to me.
In the movie, Dog Tags from a few characters started floating "toward" the event horizon... Of course, I'm not too sure if this was still considered canon at this time in the series, but judging by it being the first season, most of the physics and more extensive information about the Stargate weren't revealed yet, breaking quite a few links between the series and the movie.

Lord Zedd
November 9th, 2004, 05:59 AM
I don't remember this episode.But I don't have season 1 yet on DVD :D but I ordered it allready.It supposed to come out this month.

Lord Zedd
November 12th, 2004, 06:45 PM
I finally got it and I have seen the episode.The alien was cool !!And Jack broke the window of General Hammond haha And General Hammond stayed so calm :eek:

.:Lemon:.
November 12th, 2004, 07:35 PM
Haha! Yeah! That was probably my favourite part of the episode ;)

WraithWarrior
November 15th, 2004, 02:37 AM
Weird episode. Thought it was good though and thought it was funny where they had a funeral kind of thing for Daniel and then he came back when SG-1 went back. The technology was good how it was like a submarine door holding the water out

zats
December 5th, 2004, 02:58 PM
Actually, it reminded me of that Jell-O stuff around the Gungan City in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace!

whisper99
December 30th, 2004, 05:58 AM
So, is this the only funeral poor Daniel ever got? :) But I have to say I loved this episode. Shallow reasons aside (wet, vulnerable Daniel *happy sigh*) Team angst was great too. And yeah, I could almost see Jack crying in this one. Sam in shock, Teal'c too...yeah, that was great stuff, great team bonding.

What I didn't get was that in the begining, Nem threatened to kill Daniel. Then told him he couldn't leave. Then refused to use the memory device thingie cuz it might damage Daniel. So I had to wonder, what, was he going to keep Daniel around as a pet or something, for company? :) Daniel had to beg him to use that memory device thingie (of course, right away he told him to stop cuz it hurt so dang much) but Nem decided to turn up the volume, so to speak...so much for caring about doing damage to Daniel. So, I thought it was a bit inconsistant. Makes me wonder what they cut out of this one.

ShimmeringStar
January 30th, 2005, 06:46 AM
Somehow even with a zillion reruns on SciFi, I’d managed to never catch this one until I started watching the shows in order off the DVD’s. It was okay. Not one of my favorites from S1 by any means.

It was nice to get a peek at Jack’s place. And yes _Anubis… watching Jack destroy Hammond’s car window was interesting... :D And it was also nice to see Janet buck up against Hammond (& win) about giving SG1 time to standdown to deal with Daniel’s “death.”

gone_fishin'
February 15th, 2005, 12:45 AM
a 'grower' ep. 3 things that make it stand out as SG1 ep and not a generic scifi Trekesque one.
1) Beautifully done full-dress send off with real Honour Guard. V moving
2) Team stff. yay!
3) Wake -- Jack hockey scene where he busts Hammond's car window. Hammond all father figure.
4) Spot on mythology -- I have a friend who teaches this stuff & he was seriously imptressed. more of this and less rehashing the same old dodgy egyptology bumpf!
5) great makeup for Nem.
6) touching but no Cheese

Beatrice Otter
February 15th, 2005, 09:12 AM
So, is this the only funeral poor Daniel ever got? :) But I have to say I loved this episode. Shallow reasons aside (wet, vulnerable Daniel *happy sigh*) Team angst was great too. And yeah, I could almost see Jack crying in this one. Sam in shock, Teal'c too...yeah, that was great stuff, great team bonding.

What I didn't get was that in the begining, Nem threatened to kill Daniel. Then told him he couldn't leave. Then refused to use the memory device thingie cuz it might damage Daniel. So I had to wonder, what, was he going to keep Daniel around as a pet or something, for company? :) Daniel had to beg him to use that memory device thingie (of course, right away he told him to stop cuz it hurt so dang much) but Nem decided to turn up the volume, so to speak...so much for caring about doing damage to Daniel. So, I thought it was a bit inconsistant. Makes me wonder what they cut out of this one.
I don't necessarily think anything was cut. I think Nem was obsessed with finding his wife, and didn't really think of Daniel as anything other than a means to an end at first. But then he and Daniel started talking, and he saw the similarities between them, and started having second thoughts. I mean, Omarocca had been gone a _long_ time. And we don't know how long it had been since Nem had had contact with anyone else. He was a decent guy under everything, and it's a lot harder to do nasty things (such as that mind probe) to someone after you've gotten to know them a little than if you just see them as a means to an end.

SmartFox
February 18th, 2005, 03:57 PM
I dont remember this but did Nem ever mention any other of his race. The only other one i ever remembet him talking about was Omarocca. So is there any other of his kind or is he the last?

SilverRider
February 24th, 2005, 08:54 PM
SmartFox, according to the summary he was the last of his kind. :(

ShimmeringStar
February 28th, 2005, 03:58 AM
I don't necessarily think anything was cut. I think Nem was obsessed with finding his wife, and didn't really think of Daniel as anything other than a means to an end at first. But then he and Daniel started talking, and he saw the similarities between them, and started having second thoughts. I mean, Omarocca had been gone a _long_ time. And we don't know how long it had been since Nem had had contact with anyone else. He was a decent guy under everything, and it's a lot harder to do nasty things (such as that mind probe) to someone after you've gotten to know them a little than if you just see them as a means to an end.I agree, especially with that last sentence of yours (which I bolded). A good insight B. :)

hermajesty
March 3rd, 2005, 11:10 AM
I love this episode- its definately one of my favourites. It's the perfect angst episode. I loved gorgeous wet vulnerable Daniel, angry shouting Daniel, and Daniel feeling sorry for his tormentor. It was also a great piece of acting from RDA - i really emphasized with him. I enjoyed pretty much every scene, but i thought the one at the wake, with Jack pouring beer into the overflowing glass and then running out was brilliantly done. I also loved the window smashing scene (I posted a cool screen capture here http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=66&page=5 ), and the dialogue afterwards.
Hammond:You know that's my car don't you?
Jack: You should get that window fixed.

Uber
March 3rd, 2005, 04:26 PM
Yeah, but he wasn't really reading Daniels mind, Daniel had to speak what he was recalling so Nem (thank you omnian for the name ;)) could hear what happened to his mate.
Sure, but he could not help but think of Sha're when being questioned by this alien about his lost wife...

PugGate
March 9th, 2005, 06:34 PM
Yeah.. Juding from the little we've seen the Oannes might make good allies someday. If they ever show up again.

I don't think they'd make very good allies considering the fact that Nem is the last of his kind

Hex.FTB.enabled
March 22nd, 2005, 08:31 PM
Caught this episode again tonight, and I always quite like it each time. The team angst thinking that Daniel's dead was very well done. And that last scene on the beach was great. Gotta love RDA's adlib about sushi. :)

ivy714
March 23rd, 2005, 05:37 AM
that last scene on the beach was great. Gotta love RDA's adlib about sushi. :)
That was so funny when he said that! :)

Captain-Peregrine
March 23rd, 2005, 08:18 AM
Okay, so here comes my little girly moment. I was watching this episode with my Mum the other day and she said that this was a really good/sad love story because here's this fish-man who has been living alone for...oh, a few thousand years at least, wondering what in the hell happened to his mate. I think it's so sad because I think he really, really loved her, but he was afraid to go back to earth to look for her because he feared the Goa'uld had taken over the Earth. Really sad, really lovely.

And Daniel is just...great in any episode. :D I'm surprised he could read all that cuniform writing without his glasses, though. His eyesight seems to fluctuate between really, really bad and eh, I can see well enough.

OrangeShipper
April 7th, 2005, 01:05 AM
Yeah I always think that about Daniels eyesight.

I like this ep!! MS acting is immense in this, it's a really good ep for him.
I also love the way the team reacts (VERY nice shippy hug with Sam/Jack :p )
Smashing Hammonds window, that was hilarious!!
As was their comments about his funeral at the end!

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
April 9th, 2005, 03:32 PM
this was another of the episodes i was not too fond of for only one reason: the clip with the bubles and fire and daniel yelling... left me with the chills. i thought it was pretty thought out though and i liked they squid guy (dont know his name).

lol i loved the line where sam says to daniel. "the Colonel said some nice things" :p

KorbenDirewolf
July 4th, 2005, 11:41 PM
So, is this the only funeral poor Daniel ever got? :) But I have to say I loved this episode.

I think so.. personally, well I guess I shouldn't type what I'm thinking since I'll probably be called something by someone who likes Jackson.


I don't think they'd make very good allies considering the fact that Nem is the last of his kind

And I've still never caught when we find out he's the last.. but I could have missed something.

JoshuaJSlone
August 26th, 2005, 08:06 PM
When I first saw this episode I thought the alien just had a really bad accent and was wondering what was up with America. :o

Their realization about the missing time leading to them having a return mission irked me. It just seems like something that they would've noticed pretty quickly, or come out during their debriefing.

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 01:01 AM
Weird ep pitty we havent seen these aliens back!

walter_MacChevron
September 12th, 2005, 08:44 PM
^^^^Add that to a very long list my friend!

JastersLegacy
September 19th, 2005, 03:29 PM
You know, we could invent this whole Stargate SG-1 drinking game thing.... take a drink every time Jack says something witty, every time Teal'c raises his eyebrow, every time Carter babbles on about something technical, and every time Daniel dies and/or is assumed dead... You could pass out on that last one alone!!

But kidding aside... I think this was a very good epsiode. Not one of my favorites, but still good. I always love seeing DJ translating random stuff. Don't know why.... but I do.

...so how many times exactly has he been dead/assumed dead? It's got to be at least four or five... maybe more?

CeeKay Sheppard
September 19th, 2005, 04:11 PM
...so how many times exactly has he been dead/assumed dead? It's got to be at least four or five... maybe more?

Let's see... Daniel (one version or another) dies in:

Stargate: The Movie
The Nox
2010
Meridian
Reckoning, Pt. 2
Moebius, Pt. 2
...I think that's all of them, so he actually dies six times. Then there's also Tin Man, if you count android-Daniel – seven. He is thought to be dead in Fire and Water, and Rules of Engagement at least, bringing the total up to nine!

If anybody knows of any I've missed, please let me know. I'm keeping a list.

AGateFan
September 19th, 2005, 04:17 PM
I like this ep well enough.... only thing is... for some reason Daniel looks really odd when he goes into the water wall at the end of the ep. I dont think he took Mime in his acting classes.

JastersLegacy
September 21st, 2005, 06:01 PM
Oh but wait! The list grows!! Now, most (if not all) of these are times that DJ was *assumed* dead, so you may or may not count these.*more spoilers. Hilight to read* : I think I remember something in There But For the Grace of God where DJ assumes that his alternate reality self is dead. I'm not sure if you would count The Serpents Lair, but alot of the SGC assume that all of SG-1 is dead, including DJ. Thor's Chariot had that bit with DJ falling off the "bridge". Holiday brought him awful close to dying. Out of Mind opened up attempting to make you think that Jack was the only team member alive. Then of course, good ol' Meridian. Reckoning, when he is on the Replicator ship when they are all destroyed, and Oma ascends him at the last second. Not to mention in Season Nine, DJ and Vala almost getting burned to death by the whimpy Prior...

So, amazingly, that brings the count up to 15?

Samuel J. Tilden
September 21st, 2005, 09:50 PM
Wasn't Daniel mortally wounded in "Need"? That should count for something.

Just to keep things on topic, this was an excellent episode. The team's reaction to Daniel's death, the wake, the scene in Daniel's apartment and the reunification of the team at the end are all wonderfully conceived and executed. Ironically, I think that this episode provided a much better send-off for Daniel than the episode in which he actually died.

Metarock Sam
September 22nd, 2005, 11:14 AM
This is a great S1 episode which on the whole is one of the best written episodes ever. I expecially the liked the bit when Jack smashed Hammonds car in. And gave a dramatic more caring edge to the team and showed how important Daniel was to them ( a fact left out in daniels later deaths.)

Jack's Angel
October 26th, 2005, 10:05 AM
Aww i like this episode i think it shows how much they all really care for each other and its funny wehn Jack smashes the window on General hammond's car...bless!! All in all a good ep i felt like cryin and the memorial service! And its funny at the end when they get Daniel back and they tell him they held a memorial service for him and Daniel...'a memorial service..' hehe!

jckfan55
October 26th, 2005, 06:15 PM
They did being in shock at the beginning of the episode well. Great AT & TR moment when they're getting Sam wrapped up in blankets. I miss Frasier's bedside manner.

jazz!
December 13th, 2005, 03:49 AM
Oh but wait! The list grows!! Now, most (if not all) of these are times that DJ was *assumed* dead, so you may or may not count these.*more spoilers. Hilight to read* : I think I remember something in There But For the Grace of God where DJ assumes that his alternate reality self is dead. I'm not sure if you would count The Serpents Lair, but alot of the SGC assume that all of SG-1 is dead, including DJ. Thor's Chariot had that bit with DJ falling off the "bridge". Holiday brought him awful close to dying. Out of Mind opened up attempting to make you think that Jack was the only team member alive. Then of course, good ol' Meridian. Reckoning, when he is on the Replicator ship when they are all destroyed, and Oma ascends him at the last second. Not to mention in Season Nine, DJ and Vala almost getting burned to death by the whimpy Prior...

So, amazingly, that brings the count up to 15?

yep. His last known location, was I believe, Egypt - which had sinced been one of the areas devestated by the Goa'uld!

cafine_us
December 15th, 2005, 01:43 PM
yep. His last known location, was I believe, Egypt - which had sinced been one of the areas devestated by the Goa'uld!
AU Daniel's death could probably be confirmed as our Daniel did not suffer from temporal entropic cascade failure, although he was probably there long enough to feel the effects.

captain jake
May 5th, 2006, 06:03 PM
When do we get to see Nem again????????

Pharaoh Atem
May 23rd, 2006, 07:35 PM
i have yet to watch this from the beginning but it is a good episode

captain jake
May 25th, 2006, 02:34 AM
You should that's the best part.

Chelle DB
June 3rd, 2006, 02:02 AM
I thought this was a great show. I loved the character Nem. Didn't approve of what he did to SG1 but I understood his motives and in the end he was a good guy/thing/alien - whatever!! Would love to see him again in future episodes. Favorite part was.....bark like a chicken, cluck like a dog!!!

captain jake
June 17th, 2006, 11:15 PM
I think nem had a little bit of cabin fever if you know what I mean.

Sheppard
July 19th, 2006, 08:25 PM
yeah true

Dark Falcon
July 26th, 2006, 04:11 PM
This episode had two cool, scary moments.

The first was when the "fish guy";) SUDDENLY
used the hand device to blow Daniel away
after a minute of quietly staring at Daniel.

The second scary moment was when the alien
started crying. That scream was horrifying!! :eek:
Watch that scene again at night and you
WILL be scared. I hope that SG-1 got an
Emmy award for this episode.

captain jake
July 29th, 2006, 12:36 AM
This episode had two cool, scary moments.

The first was when the "fish guy";) SUDDENLY
used the hand device to blow Daniel away
after a minute of quietly staring at Daniel.

The second scary moment was when the alien
started crying. That scream was horrifying!! :eek:
Watch that scene again at night and you
WILL be scared. I hope that SG-1 got an
Emmy award for this episode.

I agree the scene when he screams and Daniel falls to the floor freaked the crap out of me. What I am wondering was what was the device on his hand? It was allot like a gou'ald hand device. Perhaps Nem backward engineered that technology.... Or perhaps the gou'ald stole the technology from him.

Miyth
August 6th, 2006, 01:23 PM
Hmmmmm, my favorite part was seeing Daniel soaking wet ;) .

I loved this ep because I feel it really helped establish Daniel's character in the team early in the show. It showed just how much of an impact he has on his firends and the rest of the SGC, and some of his personel streangths (I loved the scenes where he's yelling at Nem!). Over all this is one of my favorite episodes of all time.

BTW: If you want to know how many times Daniel's died, it's on Wikipedia:
"Non- and semi-permanent deaths

"The show occasionally jokes about how many times Daniel has died, as in fact it occurs often. While other characters are frequently shot, infected and killed, the show seems to prod the audience with the idea of being without this particular character.
Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

"The Film

* Killed by a staff blast defending O'Neil in the Stargate motion picture. Resurrected by Ra with a sarcophagus.

"Season One

* Presumed dead with the rest of the people of Abydos from the nuke left behind by O'Neil in the "Stargate motion picture (In "Children of the Gods").
* Presumed dead by the brainwashed rest of SG-1 in "Fire and Water".
* Killed by Apophis and resurrected by the Nox in "The Nox".
* Supposes his other self to be dead in an alternate universe in "There But For the Grace of God" although in fairness, everyone dies in this episode except Daniel.

"Season Two

* Hit by a staff blast and apparently mortally wounded, remains behind on Apophis' doomed ship to use the sarcophagus and escapes via Stargate before the ship is destroyed in "The Serpent's Lair". Presumed dead by the rest of SG-1.
* Briefly died of old age while in the body of Ma'chello, an ancient enemy of the Goa'uld, in "Holiday".

"Season Three

* In the opening of "Rules of Engagement" he appears to die along with the rest of SG-1, but is only temporarily stunned.
* Carter shoots an alien resembling Daniel Jackson, the alien later dies. "Foothold".
* SG-1 searches for Jackson while he follows them around in a non-corporeal state, suspecting that he has died and is a ghost in "Crystal Skull".

"Season Four

* Suffers cardiac arrest after becoming addicted to a Goa'uld narcotic device. "The Light"
* Is shot and killed with gate-defense lasers along with the rest of SG-1 in the alternate future of "2010".
* Has 'his' head shot off by a staff weapon in "Double Jeopardy", revealing that the SG-1 the episode had followed to that point is not the original, but rather the android SG-1.

"Season Five

* Dies of radiation poisoning after psychically asking O'Neill to make the doctors and Jacob Carter stop trying to save him in "Meridian", thus Ascending to a higher plane until season seven.

"Season Eight

* Killed by Teal'c in a virtual reality system from P7J-989 during "Avatar", as he had previously been a Goa'uld spy inside the virtual reality. If he did not gain the trust of Teal'c inside the game, they would both eventually die.
* Killed by RepliCarter at the very end of "Reckoning" and is seen at midway point between Ascension and mortality before finally being brought back to life in "Threads".
* A Goa'uld-possessed alternate timeline version of Daniel is shot by Teal'c in "Moebius". The timeline is restored by the end of the episode and Daniel is alive with all of SG-1. (In another timeline in the same episode, all of SG-1 are killed except Daniel when attempting a revolution in the past; that timeline's Daniel apparently lives out his life in ancient Egypt, along with the alternate SG-1 whose Daniel was infected by a Goa'uld, and would have eventually died as well.)

"Season Ten

* In the opening episode it is revealed that the Korolev (the ship that Daniel was on) was the Daedalus-class ship that had been destroyed in the season 9 finale. As Daniel hadn't been able to evacuate via Asgard beaming technology or by F-302, he had been presumed dead. Later on, the SG-1 team discovers that the ring transporter was used by Daniel to escape to an Ori ship, moments before the destruction of the Korolev." --- Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Jackson

So he's died more or less 18 times on the show...

angelfire east
April 5th, 2007, 05:20 PM
The alien from this episode looks just like the alien from Farscape.

Daniel looks so cute/hot in this episode. I loved the term bonding in this episodes. I really loved the wake too. This episode was really well done, speacilly for a season one episode.

MechaThor
April 6th, 2007, 04:29 AM
The Alien was cool and thanks to his Wife the uprising was sparked!

Shame we never got to see that race again as they said one day we could become allies.
Also that Fish guy was Old! If you want to live 4ever become an alien!

I also loved the "BED....FOOD" part. that always makes me laugh! As its like his some old jail m8. "I give you bed and food, That makes you mine!"

garhkal
April 7th, 2007, 08:10 AM
Agreed it was a pity we never got a chance to go back.. Though i wonder if he was the last of his kind??

Azreth
March 29th, 2008, 08:28 PM
In then episode "Fire and Water" in season 1 of SG1 there was that alien in that lived in the water. Why do you think that was that only one of the speces that was seen throughout the series, seeing as has that speces was on earth at one point in time. Who knows that species just might have been the Furlings, I mean who says that the Fur in Furlings has anything to do with a physical discription.

Infinatus
March 29th, 2008, 08:44 PM
I think that guy's "mate" being killed by the Goa'uld was supposed to be symbolic for his entire species in that they were likely all but wiped out and those who remain live in isolation for fear of encountering the Goa'uld.

Mister Oragahn
March 29th, 2008, 09:30 PM
His wife was Omoroca. Killed opposing the Goa'uld on Earth, iirc.

Bobby
March 29th, 2008, 10:09 PM
nah they cant be the furlings there not cool enough and plus i think they could probably cain the Goa'uld

Merlin1701
March 30th, 2008, 03:23 AM
I’ve mentioned it a few times...I think they should show up in the PG as one of the ancients allies, the Atlanteans removed their Stargate to protect them from the wraith and they have thrived on an oceanic world.
A small ship was rescued by the Atlanteans during their evacuation; hence the appearance of them in MW.

Promethius30
March 30th, 2008, 04:26 AM
I’ve mentioned it a few times...I think they should show up in the PG as one of the ancients allies, the Atlanteans removed their Stargate to protect them from the wraith and they have thrived on an oceanic world.
A small ship was rescued by the Atlanteans during their evacuation; hence the appearance of them in MW.

an underwater civilisations on the atlantis planet would be cool i dont see them having ships

YutheGreat
March 30th, 2008, 05:46 AM
If he was truly Furling don't you think they could have beaten the Goauld twice over. They didn't show any technology near the level of the others in the four race alliance.

flameling
March 30th, 2008, 06:44 AM
I agre with Yu the Great. And there has been no hint of the guy being a Furling, but I can see your logic.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
March 30th, 2008, 06:54 AM
He wasn't a Furling. He belongs to a race known as the Oannes! (From Babylonian mythology) Unless the Furlings changed their name.... Like the Alterans, Lanteans, Gatebuilders, Ancestors, Ancients :weir40:

The Oannes might have had ships..


From Fire and Water

Oannes: "Remember, Omoroca."

He turns on the machine, and two blue lasers appear to be going into both sides of his head.

DANIEL: "Omoroca." (starts to grunt and sniff. )"Omoroca." (His voice is getting louder, he is in pain). "And in that place there was Omoroca...A women who came forth from the Heavenly egg..." (Starts yelling)..."Ow, Oh…I can't!"

The Oannes turns the beam up higher.

The Heavenly Egg could be a way of describing a spacecraft of some kind. And in the surviving writings from Babylon there are references to an egg that fell from the sky into the sea.


FRAGMENT OF HELLADIUS preserved by Photius
(c. A.D. 820-c. 893)
Preserved in the form of a summary (Codex 279)

Helladius recounts the story of a man named Oe who came out of the Red Sea having a fish-like body but the head, feet and arms of a man, and who taught astronomy and letters. Some accounts say that he came out of a great egg whence his name, and that he was actually a man, but only seemed a fish because he was clothed in 'the skin of a sea creature.'

"Helladius' account is extremely valuable , the more so because it is confirmed by the extant pictorial representations of this wise being (called 'the Egg-Born') who exited in a strange suit from some kind of vessel - likened to an egg - that 'fell' into the sea. Hyginus, Manilius and Xanthus all furnish other corroborating details, speaking of gods in honor of whom the fish-form is sacred, who plunged from the sky into the waters of the Euphrates. In another variant (found in the commentary in Germanicus' edition of Aratus) the power of a holy fish pushed ashore on the banks of the Euphrates near Babylon, the 'egg' out of which the 'deity' appeared. Before it landed in the waters, the egg-like vessel was of a luminous appearance.


"At Babylon there was a great resort of people of various nations who inhabited Chaldaea and lived in a lawless manner like the beasts of the field. In the first year there appeared from that part of the Erythraean sea which borders Babylonia, an animal destitute of reason, by the name of Oannes, whose whole body was that of a fish. That under the fish's head he had another head, with feet also below, similar to those of a man, subjoined to the fish's tail. His voice too, and language was articulate and human. And a representation of him is preserved even to this day. This Being was accustomed to pass the day among men; but took no food at that season; and he gave them an insight into letters and sciences, and arts of every kind. He taught them to construct cities, to found temples, to compile laws, and explained to them the principles of geometrical knowledge. He made them distinguish the seeds of the earth, and showed them how to collect the fruits; in short, he instructed them in everything which could tend to soften manners and humanize their lives. From that time, nothing material has been added by way of improvement to his instructions. And when the sun had set, this Being Oannes, retired again into the sea, and passed the night in the deep; for he was amphibious. After this there appeared other animals like Oannes."
Berossus, from Ancient Fragments (Isaac Preston Cory)
From V. Pakhomov, 1999,

As you can see, I have way too much free time! :p

tombombadil
March 30th, 2008, 11:08 AM
they weren't furlings, they're called Oannes.

stargatelvr
April 3rd, 2008, 04:50 AM
I thought the Furling were the fuzzy, Ewok-like creatures in 200. LOL

Thor_Enke
April 8th, 2008, 07:46 AM
He might not belong to the Furlings !
Indeed, we saw in the " Paradise Lost " (Season 6), that the corpses of the Furlings were human...


He wasn't a Furling. He belongs to a race known as the Oannes! (From Babylonian mythology)

Indeed :tealc:

HelloVelo
May 26th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I thought the fish was a jerk. He kind of blew off Daniel's friendship offer at the end.

Rating: 5/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/05/fire-and-water.html

captain jake
June 25th, 2008, 01:29 PM
After watching this episode again, I realize that it wasn't really a bad thing that we never got to see Nem and his kind again. As I said on The Nox Episode Thread the thing that makes these aliens interesting is that they are mystical. If we get to know them to well, they are no longer mystical. It's the questions like was he the last of his kind?, Why was he a jerk?, Or what Omaroca was like? that make Fire and Water interesting.

L E E
June 27th, 2008, 09:38 PM
this episode showed how strong the bond is between the team. the others knew deep in their heart that daniel is still alive.

and there's a new interesting alien who is apparently long-lived and highly advanced. and this alien's mate is so nice to go to our planet and try and save us from the goauld. and it's also a good thing that the mate is a reasonable creature who didn't take out his anger on our planet/race.

captain jake
June 28th, 2008, 01:10 AM
this episode showed how strong the bond is between the team. the others knew deep in their heart that daniel is still alive.

and there's a new interesting alien who is apparently long-lived and highly advanced. and this alien's mate is so nice to go to our planet and try and save us from the goauld. and it's also a good thing that the mate is a reasonable creature who didn't take out his anger on our planet/race.

I really liked the part when they went to Daniel's apartment and were packing up his stuff. I would really like to have an apartment like that some day. As a matter of fact my room looks a lot like that as it is. I agree that Nem was an awesome character, his technology was very impressive. I wonder if the energy he shot out of the palm of his hand was naturally occurring or if it came from a device he was wearing.

Pic
July 21st, 2008, 06:30 PM
OMG! They killed Daniel! *snort
That guy's got to have used up his nine lives (as Miyth's post above outlines).

I also liked Daniel's apartment - the fish tank was cool, but when is he ever there to feed the fish?

Sam, reading his diary like that, tsk tsk.

I think AT and RDM's acting was pretty good in this. Especially when they knew Daniel died but that they "knew" he was alive. It's always interesting to see an actor playing a character questioning their own sanity.

Pic
July 21st, 2008, 06:30 PM
OMG! They killed Daniel! *snort
That guy's got to have used up his nine lives (as Miyth's post above outlines).

I also liked Daniel's apartment - the fish tank was cool, but when is he ever there to feed the fish?

Sam, reading his diary like that, tsk tsk.

I think AT and RDM's acting was pretty good in this. Especially when they knew Daniel died but that they "knew" he was alive. It's always interesting to see an actor playing a character questioning their own sanity.

pritnep
July 26th, 2008, 08:23 PM
I have a weak spot for flash back episodes, where you are shown the end before the beginning and middle - this was similar to those types of episodes.

The flash backs, the doubting and the bubbles/recurring memory was a cool touch.

Daniel's apartment was cool, pretty much how I had imagined it.

The memorial service was a nice touch with the reef going through the Stargate.

We always wondered (up until this point) what/who sparked the uprising interesting to note it was an alien. I guess they were trying to save humans from becoming enslaved and being wiped out like this race seems to have been. Stand up and be counted then run and hide kind of thing.

Hehe I always have to chuckle when General Hammond tells Jack "you know that's my car don't you" after smashing his window, Jack replies "you should get that window fixed". :D

Pic
August 7th, 2008, 11:07 AM
I have a weak spot for flash back episodes, where you are shown the end before the beginning and middle - this was similar to those types of episodes.

The flash backs, the doubting and the bubbles/recurring memory was a cool touch.

Daniel's apartment was cool, pretty much how I had imagined it.

The memorial service was a nice touch with the reef going through the Stargate.

We always wondered (up until this point) what/who sparked the uprising interesting to note it was an alien. I guess they were trying to save humans from becoming enslaved and being wiped out like this race seems to have been. Stand up and be counted then run and hide kind of thing.

Hehe I always have to chuckle when General Hammond tells Jack "you know that's my car don't you" after smashing his window, Jack replies "you should get that window fixed". :D

He was very calm about his car window being smashed in like that. Cool under pressure, that Hammond.

Was Nem's race wiped out? I didn't catch that. I was wondering why there was never any mention of trying to go back and talk with him about his toys/tech.

Lately I've been resisting the urge to walk up to complete strangers and ask "What fate Omoroca!?!"

Raika
August 7th, 2008, 11:32 AM
I like fish-people :3 ..and I like Daniel Jackson (23 languages, wtf!?) so this is one of my favourite episodes =)

Beckmen
August 10th, 2008, 05:52 PM
Was Nem's race wiped out? I didn't catch that. I was wondering why there was never any mention of trying to go back and talk with him about his toys/tech.

Certainly didn't seem like it. I mean, Jackson said that they'd like to come back and ally themselves with the Oannes and Nem was like "Yeah, someday...", not "Pfff, don't bother, I am the last one."

I don't know why the writers totally dropped the Oannes. They are a real part of Babylonian mythology...fish people that gave humans wisdom. It would have been cool to see more of them, even if they had to be wiped out or whatever.

Descent
February 27th, 2009, 01:22 PM
RDM and Shanks were both great in this ep. I loved Jack busting General Hammond's window and later going "You should get that window fixed". Good stuff.

Also, I'm kinda glad the fish people didn't make a return... there wasn't too much more to get out of them (story wise) after this ep.

Butlersgate
February 27th, 2009, 01:45 PM
RDM and Shanks were both great in this ep. I loved Jack busting General Hammond's window and later going "You should get that window fixed". Good stuff.

Also, I'm kinda glad the fish people didn't make a return... there wasn't too much more to get out of them (story wise) after this ep.

he could of been an ally imo, but i don't think there was anything lost from them not bringing them back. and it is a great episode.

Dinoman
March 3rd, 2009, 03:52 PM
I really like the museum joke that Jack made referring to how the SGC would do to Daniel's stuff. Daniel is just like a living museum of ancient history, that make him almost as smart as Carter.

DSG1
March 4th, 2009, 01:10 PM
I just watched this again on my DVD. I like the early Daniel episodes the most. I thought the planet and ocean was interesting. You dont get to see that anymore on SG. Bodies of water. I thought that was cool.

The Stig
April 20th, 2009, 02:40 PM
An interseting episode. my favourite bit ws when jack was playng hockey at the wake. that poor window.

Cheerful Dragon
May 20th, 2009, 08:30 AM
An interesting episode, but I wonder how Nem and his kind manage to stay alive for 4000+ years. As usual, Daniel waves his arms around a lot when he gets worked up over something :rolleyes:, and Jack is suspicious of things like hypnosis. Good job Sam's open to that kind of thing, or they'd never have got Daniel back.

Ba'al is mentioned for the first time - Belos was the Greek name for Ba'al. Pity we had to wait until season 5 to meet him, but it wouldn't have been the same with anybody other than Cliff Simon in the part.

WishIwasJoes
May 20th, 2009, 09:16 AM
I loved this episode because the team interaction is good. They have to go through alot of emotional pain together. Jack already had his dramtic scene when he blew up while beating the crap out of Gen Hammonds car so of course Jack doesn't want to anything to do with hypnosis. After all that how Amanda got to show her action skills off too. :)

I did get tired of Daniel being stuck with the fish man but it was still a good episode.

Vladius
May 20th, 2009, 10:41 AM
It would be awesome if this episode has something to do with the Universe episodes "Fire" and "Water" coming up, but I wouldn't count on it.

lordofseas
July 31st, 2009, 03:38 PM
It would be awesome if this episode has something to do with the Universe episodes "Fire" and "Water" coming up, but I wouldn't count on it.

Probably not, but I liked the race encountered here.

Sp!der
August 17th, 2009, 07:48 AM
that episode was kinda in a lovecraftian theme, with the little fish alien coming out of the water. interesting plot.

stargatelover4ever
December 21st, 2009, 02:09 AM
carter reading Daniel's diary was really funny :D
:daniel:
I'll never get paid lol

gateship15
December 21st, 2009, 07:54 PM
lol very very funny

AresLover452
December 21st, 2009, 09:30 PM
Ah, the first sppy in which Daniel "Died" lol!!

Jack: "I'm not a real big fan of the whole cluck like a dog, bark like a chicken thing.

gateship15
December 21st, 2009, 10:46 PM
lol thats jacks humour alright

AresLover452
December 21st, 2009, 11:02 PM
i loved how he pulled Sam out of the chair when the memories were getting too rough on her.

gateship15
December 21st, 2009, 11:32 PM
lol thats great

Girlbot
December 30th, 2009, 10:39 AM
This was an interesting ep. But I think after all that time, I would go out looking for my mate myself.

Alder
January 31st, 2010, 11:02 AM
Hmmm, this is one of those episodes that I watch and then think, "Huh. We never did see that guy again. Wonder what happened to him?"

I hate it when I realise that there were characters and races that still had some story left in them and were forgotten about. Seems such a waste.

(Also, heh. That 'bed' looks a wee bit short for Daniel. )

mrscopterdoc
February 3rd, 2010, 03:20 PM
This was an interesting ep. But I think after all that time, I would go out looking for my mate myself.
Yeah, me too.


Hmmm, this is one of those episodes that I watch and then think, "Huh. We never did see that guy again. Wonder what happened to him?"

I hate it when I realise that there were characters and races that still had some story left in them and were forgotten about. Seems such a waste.


I know, makes you wonder what ever happened to him.

maneth
March 4th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Interesting episode. Still, I can understand why he didn't try to get back to earth, the Stargate hadn't been functional for more than a month or two by that time, and a creature with a lifespan of millennia would probably have better things to do than check the gate all the time. Besides, he thought humans were servants of the Goa'uld and wasn't sure of his welcome anyway...

Vagabond Serpent
April 3rd, 2010, 03:01 AM
Quite strong episode. Just rewatched it. This one was one of the episodes I watched only on DVD for the first time, so it was even more startling to see Daniel died and the memorial service, when I knew that he's alive in the future episodes. Anyway, it was an interesting standalone episode. I can't imagine what Nem suffered for thousands of years...

EDIT: 7/10

Dark Ghost
April 17th, 2010, 06:07 AM
to bad they never revised his people or him
is a good episode just rewatched it

Tallifer
September 10th, 2010, 12:01 PM
An interesting story and all contained within one episode.

I wonder how good Nem and Omoroca really were when they were on earth. After all Omoroca is an alternative name for Tiamat according to the French version of Wikipedia, and Tiamat was the embodiment of chaos. She was on the other hand the progenitor of all the Babylonian gods and goddesses. Nem certainly was completely selfish and quite callous towards Daniel until he softened somewhat in the end.

Lunaeclipse
March 2nd, 2011, 05:43 PM
An interesting story and all contained within one episode.

I wonder how good Nem and Omoroca really were when they were on earth. After all Omoroca is an alternative name for Tiamat according to the French version of Wikipedia, and Tiamat was the embodiment of chaos. She was on the other hand the progenitor of all the Babylonian gods and goddesses. Nem certainly was completely selfish and quite callous towards Daniel until he softened somewhat in the end.

Daniel said in this episode that perhaps she was the one that instigated the rebellion against Ra on Earth.

Selkhet
April 29th, 2011, 12:49 PM
Hmmm, this is one of those episodes that I watch and then think, "Huh. We never did see that guy again. Wonder what happened to him?"

I agree. I'd have loved to see another episode with him in it. Maybe even at the end talking with Daniel about some technology to help defend the galaxy.


I hate it when I realise that there were characters and races that still had some story left in them and were forgotten about. Seems such a waste.

I agree. Awesome character. Loved to see him battling the Goa'uld or Replicators or something. :)

lookupwardsnshare
August 5th, 2011, 05:02 PM
Hmmm, this is one of those episodes that I watch and then think, "Huh. We never did see that guy again. Wonder what happened to him?"

Have to agree. Seems like he had the technology and know how to help in later episodes especially in the fight against the gou'ald. I would think he would of wanted some kind of revenge and probably would have helped. Plus, he owed Daniel and the team one for what he put them through.

Could we consider this the first tv episode that Daniel "dies" in?

Enjoyable episode.

hermantheowl
August 6th, 2011, 07:27 PM
originaly posted by lookupwardsandshare: Could we consider this the first tv episode that Daniel "dies" in?


This is the first one they beleived Daniel was dead so yes. In fits O'Neill's comments on this in Threads (season 8)

O'NEILL: Yeah! How many times have you thought he was gone, and then he shows up -- in one form or another.

That is what happens in Fire and Water.

Brother Freyr
August 10th, 2011, 10:30 AM
Well, Daniel and the rest died in 1x07 (The Nox), so this would be the second time, I think.

I agree with other posters that Nem was a lost opportunity. :( He would have made a natural ally against the goa'uld.

poundpuppy29
August 11th, 2011, 06:16 AM
Loved this episode from beginning to end awesome ep

dtheories
August 11th, 2011, 08:13 AM
Dr. Daniel Jackson: Intergalactic Babe. Oh My.

Otherwise, yes, it is a shame Nem and his world were never visited again. A race feeling itself powerful enough to take on the mission to rid another planet of the Goa'uld? I'd want to know them if I were in that battle! Teal'c's many, memorable frowns is another grabber along with the emergence of Mighty Janet! yeehaw!
Did I mention Daniel's eyes? :-} Or the workings of his massive brain on display? sigh. Can see why Jack might prefer to retire than go on without his little buddy.
But the reunion at the beach was the most fun; whenever they're all together is great.

muziqaz
August 12th, 2011, 02:29 AM
I had already forgotten this episode since I watched it last time, so it was really interesting to see what happened to Daniel. And I feel the same about not visiting that planet later for alliance.

Scotaf
August 12th, 2011, 06:03 AM
Well, Daniel and the rest died in 1x07 (The Nox), so this would be the second time, I think.

True, unless your watching it on Netflix in which case they have the episodes ordered differently and this episode comes up before the Nox. On Nextflix this episode is 11 and The Nox is 12. I know the order is wrong, but I don't feel like flipping through to watch them in the right one that would just be a pain.

On this episode I could take it or leave it. It is a good episode, but it has no bearing on the rest of the series as has already been pointed out. That in of itself doesn't make it bad, but it felt like they were setting it up to build on it later and then they never did so it feels like a dead end.

Lieutenant Sparrow
August 12th, 2011, 06:42 AM
I enjoy this ep when ever I watch it. Nem's design is very unique as well.

hedwig
August 12th, 2011, 08:05 AM
I thought this was an ok episode. Lots of emotional stuff happening.

I thought the military memorial was way over the top. Daniel is a civilian; not military. Had the whole thing not been underground, I halfway expected one of those fly overs with military jets as happens in actual military funerals.

I would like there to have been more background on Nem. Had he been on that planet - living in an underwater home for hundreds or more years ... alone? What exactly had he been doing all those years while wondering what happened to his beloved wife?

And there was the whole packing up Daniel's apartment thing. Those diaries of his that Sam found were in direct conflict of the document he signed about secrecy of the program. They should not have been in his home; if they had been anywhere, they should have been in his office/lab at the SGC. As it was, anyone in his apartment could have picked one up and started reading it. Naughty Daniel!:)

I liked getting to see Jack's home and all the people there. Too bad about Hammond's car window. :p

Love the huggy scenes between Jack and Sam - Daniel's apartment and the scene where Sam realizes they left Daniel behind.

Starmover
August 12th, 2011, 02:46 PM
I liked when Janet pulled rank on Hammond. I was also thinking that maybe Nem might have been hibernating alot, like Unas was in Thor's Hammer. One more thing. Anybody know where I can get those cool sunglasses that Jack wears when he's off world? :hammondanime01:

Starscape91
August 13th, 2011, 10:11 AM
I really enjoyed this episode its too bad we never see Nem again.

garhkal
August 13th, 2011, 03:36 PM
Well, Daniel and the rest died in 1x07 (The Nox), so this would be the second time, I think.

I agree with other posters that Nem was a lost opportunity. :( He would have made a natural ally against the goa'uld.

If you count his death in the Original film, it makes his third.

jlovette
August 13th, 2011, 04:37 PM
I always forget about this episode, probably because its never referenced again. A good, solid, stand alone episode.

another scientist
August 15th, 2011, 10:19 AM
This is such a great episode! I actually cried the first time I saw it, it also made me doubt any death after that like 'oh, he/she is just pulling a Daniel'. :)
The plot is such a nice reflection of Daniel's feelings about Sha're and i believe his life would have been spent like Nam's, always looking for his wife until the end.
Really like that they showed Daniel as such a strong character and the ever growing bond between the members of SG 1. Definitely one of my favorites.

garhkal
August 15th, 2011, 02:15 PM
One thing i wonder.. what was that 'weapon' he used to take them all out?

Jae'a
August 16th, 2011, 08:57 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/4447.html)

Hmm, a bit more summary than review, but I didn't remember the ep at all. In fact, that may have been the first time I'd seen it... :eek:

chaddergate
August 16th, 2011, 01:16 PM
I always forget about this episode, probably because its never referenced again. A good, solid, stand alone episode.

I agree...it had a great guest character, wish they could've brought him back :(
And OT, hello to a fellow Texan.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 16th, 2011, 06:27 PM
I think I'm on track now since I skipped an episode yesterday.

Anyways, another yawn episode. Daniel is thought to be dead, the beginning of a fun running gag during SG-1. The debut of the "sand" SG-1 suits.

Tomorrow is "The Nox," I'm going by the order of the DVD, even if isn't correct. An episode I kind of was looking forward too, even if it was an average episode.

Nindif
August 17th, 2011, 01:51 AM
The plot is such a nice reflection of Daniel's feelings about Sha're and i believe his life would have been spent like Nam's, always looking for his wife until the end.

I think this is largely the parralel this episode is running along. It is well done too. Its almost makes the episode an arc-based story but not quite.

Very unfortunate Nem and his race were never again seen or heard from - a continued trend throughout the series for stand-alone eps. Did anyone else notice a striking facial resemblence to the Blue aliens from SGU?

It is an often forgotten episode. Its quite solid overall. The wreath being absorbed by the gate is a fantastic effect, and I love the surprise attack by Nem on Daniel early on. Nem's cry/howl when Daniel reveals the truth to him is awefully done though.

juggernaut975
August 17th, 2011, 07:41 AM
I'll echo the sentiment regarding never seeing Nem or anyone of his race again. It's a shame because here you have a technologically advanced race capable of living thousands and thousands of years and yet.....one appearance.

It would have been a nice 'middle of the road' like alien race to counter the Goa'uld (evil) and Asgard (good).

Thought it very, very strange though that they would treat Nem so sympathetically considering what he did to all of them.....to not only violate their minds but to also leave such a painful memory....and so shoddily at that that there were complications later.

Yet at the end of the episode we see Daniel trying to reach out still with Nem only to be told 'In time, perhaps....'

Why he would do this, not sure....he's a better person than I am, no contest lol.

I am sympathetic to Nem's loss, sure, but that doesn't excuse his brutal violation of SG1 and Daniel's captivity.

Brother Freyr
August 17th, 2011, 10:13 AM
Thought it very, very strange though that they would treat Nem so sympathetically considering what he did to all of them Good points and questions, all. I think the answer to why they (the writers) treat Nem so sympathetically is found here:



The plot is such a nice reflection of Daniel's feelings about Sha'reI think this is largely the parralel this episode is running along. On a purely emotional level, aggression toward Nem would insert a discordant tone after the episode-long harmony of Nem and Daniel's stories. TPTB simply opted for a feel-good resolution rather than a more realistic (but emotionally jarring) end. (Of course, for Daniel it's consistent with his usual behavior. Ever the conciliator.)

Matt G
August 17th, 2011, 02:42 PM
Another Sunday afternoon and another episode of SG1...

1. This ep started on a bit of a flat note. Come on...even first time round with no involvement in fandom at that point I knew that they couldn't have killed Daniel that quickly.

2. As a result, the memorial service seemed a bit cheap this time round, particularly remembering...

Janet's death

3. I'd forgotten about how Nem initially assumed that SG1 must serve the Goa'uld. And...oldest?

4. One theory I've got concerning why New wanted to keep DAniel around even if he couldn't answer his questions was for the company. That and he thought Daniel would remember eventually.

Decent enough ep.

Krisz
August 17th, 2011, 08:02 PM
I liked this episode mainly for the fact we meet a more 'alien' alien, on a planet where water is the more hospitable environment, so we get the aquatic life form. I agree it was a shame we never saw more of Nem, and more aquatic aliens,

.........only one other down the line in the course of the series....In 'Watergate', and even then we didn't actually see them as such!

Even when I first saw this I somehow didn't believe that Daniel had really died. Discovering what had happened with the mind tampering was interesting to watch and I just felt it was a matter of time before they discover what truly happened. We learn more about the aliens on Earth over the course of its history too, I really liked how cleverly the myths and legends of Earth are explained in SG-1 as a result of real events and alien influences.

I never noticed first time of watching Stargate how quickly the team actually bonded if you look at the relatively short period of time since they got together. Guess it was this great chemistry between a bunch of likeable characters that kept me coming back for more.

Again, can beat the Stargate humour! :)

DANIEL: Ah, this— this is a long story.
CARTER: Yeah, I'll bet!
O'NEILL: Tell us about it over Sushi?

hlndncr
August 17th, 2011, 09:07 PM
I love this episode. I think it's a great little oft forgotten gem. It feels like SG1 really got cooking here at the backend of Season 1 and is quickly coming into its own. For me a big part of that is how the team comes together. You just really feel their bond in this one, not just for Daniel who they think is gone but the others as well as the ones who have been left behind. We also see more of wonderful Janet being so caring and yet so in control. The fatherly Hammond. And for me personally, love the hug! Mmmmm RDA hug. (Sorry, not a thunk thread. :o)

Honestly this is one I don't think too hard about. I just watch and enjoy.




http://signavatar.com/7792_s.gif

LeftHandedGuitarist
August 18th, 2011, 11:42 AM
I remembered this episode being pretty weak, but it turned out to be fairly enjoyable. That said, it has quite a few big factors which let it down and they can all be related back to the teething problems any young television series can have. Let's start with the bad stuff.

The opening moments of the episode don't really work. Being told that Daniel is dead is not going to fool any television audience, and it's never a good way for any sci-fi episode to start. We know he's not dead, and there's zero tension because of that. The episode does wait quite a while before showing us he is alive, but it's still not a big surprise when it does. Amanda Tapping does some seriously over-the-top poor acting in a number of scenes, notably her "in shock" coming through the wormhole, and while she's under hypnosis. RDA and Chris Judge, on the other hand, give very nice restrained and more subtle performances.

The other big problem here for me was the alien Nem, who is referred to briefly as an Oanne. He's just awful. The alien design here goes well over the line into the realms of Star Trek, and even back in 1997 I was enjoying Stargate because it was nothing like Trek. The character is given bad dialogue, and the acting is not enjoyable to watch. Nem getting emotional is just cringeworthy, and his big scream fares only a little better than Darth Vaders "NOOOOOO" in Episode III. He's played by the same actor who was in The Broca Divide, and I don't know if it's just me but this guy just cannot act well on screen.

Michael Shanks, on the other hand, delivers a briliant performance opposite him. As mentioned above, we get to see his little frustration dance which would become a character trademark, and Daniel is given some good material to work with as he discusses ancient languages and tales from Babylon. I don't like the scenes with him undergoing the memory-recall procedure, again things go a bit over-the-top, but it's over quickly.

I did like the scenes back on Earth more. Visiting Daniel's apartment was interesting, and I felt a geeky twinge and actually paused the DVD when Sam was reading through Daniel's journal so I could read what was written in there. It's actually quite amusing. The two pages are talking about playing an ancient boardgame (likely the same one Teal'c talks about moments later) but in the middle of all this writing is the one little sentence Sam reads out ("Sha're is gone...").

Dull and uninteresting discussion about the rules to a boardgame, a single sentence about his personal torment, and then right back to those important game rules. Have a look at it! It's looks very odd!

Best moment of the episode for me was when Jack smashes General Hammond's car window! Brilliantly done, really made me laugh - "you know, that's my car?". Gotta love Hammond.

Rating: 6.5 out of 10

Skydiver
August 18th, 2011, 05:37 PM
thought i recognized the voice...Tuplo

I think the brightest spot of the whole episode was 'don't leave anyone behind'...all you got out there is each other and you take care of each other

Traveler Enroute1
August 19th, 2011, 01:23 PM
SG Rewatch episodes: 101 - 105, 106, 107, 109, 110, 111,112

Fire and Water

Neat little mystery: Daniel's dead. Or is he? Liked the directing here, using the team's traumatic return and backtracking to what really happened. All the while we know that Daniel indeed is alive if not well, captive of a driven acquatic life form. However, we don't know this until after the lead in, and we're lead right up to a formal military funeral for Daniel!

"May he rest in peace." Then cut to Daniel, and he's waking up.

OK, so it's early days yet and we naturally have a good sense that Daniel's breathing somewhere but it's always fun to see how the writers sell us on it.

I think I liked this episode most for the view of how deeply the team felt the loss of a member. Although the memory was a false one, their deep sorrow was from their genuine feelings for Daniel. Jack, Sam and Teal'c couldn't accept his loss even if they swore they saw him die. The way Jack unraveled at the service, the way they all recalled bubbles and got anxiety attacks over them, then the final hypnosis where Sam realizes they left Daniel behind; all nicely paced and spooled out convincingly.

Additional stuff:



Is this the first 'Daniel's dead?' line? Besides the movie when Ra restores him, that is.


'Incoming traveler' doesn't hold the iris open by activating the signal as it did previously. Hammond has to order them to open it. Seemed like a long delay between initiation of transit and iris opening; expected to hear a thud on the iris.


Loved the set design on Nem's underwater abode. And nice reveal when he appears to a startled Daniel. Neat sfx when the alien comes through the wall of water and is dry when he's inside.


Janet pulls rank on Hammond. Two conflicting post trauma philosophies - 1) get back out there {as in 'get back on the horse'} right away, Hammond's view; or 2) take time to sort out feelings and determine ability to serve, Janet's view. Janet won!


We get a first look at Dr. McKenzie, soon to be an un-favorite of our favorite team. He's aloof and clinical but apparently efficient.


Daniel's apartment was really cool. I would love to be a visitor there, examining all his collections, or as Sam said, "all this stuff."


Always laugh when Daniel does his frustration dance - flapping his arms and jumping up and down saying "Why why why..." So cute when he does that!


Got kind of teary-eyed at the team's eagerness then stark disappointment when the incoming traveler isn't Daniel. Looks like they all wanted to cry.


Then there's this moment when Hammond looked at the gate, and the camera lingers on it as if he's blaming it for causing their problems.


Nem reminded me of The Creature from the Black Lagoon a little. His costume is, however, not as well- delineated as the creature's. Loved that guy.


So, another species on the map, that we don't get to know much about except they live as long as a Goa'uld, live mostly in water and are technologically saavy. Nem's race can apparently feel love, reason and act on moral impulses as with Omaroka's (sp?) quest to help the Tau'ri.

Oh, and don't appear to regard us too warmly just yet. He kind of toyed around with the team, esp Daniel so he could finally get an answer. If Daniel didn't die. Sad that we never encountered them again, see if they changed.

Rated 2.5/5

This is a re-post. Been having glitchy computer issues and an edit totally wiped the formatting and made this unreadable. Hope it makes better reading now! - TE1

Noxbait
August 19th, 2011, 04:43 PM
I think I liked this episode most for the view of how deeply the team felt the loss of a member. Although the memory was a false one, their deep sorrow was from their genuine feelings for Daniel. Jack, Sam and Teal'c couldn't accept his loss even if they swore they saw him die. The way Jack unraveled at the service, the way they all recalled bubbles and got anxiety attacks over them, then the final hypnosis where Sam realizes they left Daniel behind; all nicely paced and spooled out convincingly.

We get a first look at Dr. McKenzie, soon to be an un-favorite of our favorite team. He's aloof and clinical but apparently efficient.

Always laugh when Daniel does his frustration dance - flapping his arms and jumping up and down saying "Why why why..." So cute when he does that!

Excellent post, Traveler! I love your points. This was a good episode to show how close the team has gotten over the course of a very short period of time. The friendship is what makes this series so great to me. They care about each other and that just moves the stories beyond run of the mill sci-fi. I love the human aspect. A good episode, that really showed the bonds of the team, but especially how much Jack cared about Daniel.

jelgate
August 21st, 2011, 03:43 PM
The early years of Stargate had a lot of abandon plots arcs. Stories they started but dropped. This is one of those arcs. It always bugs me that they never continued any stories about the Nem's race of amphibians.

That said its a good episode. On one end it shows how much Daniel meant to SG1 during the fake grieving. You don't suffer that much when its just a co-worker who dies. Also I love laughing at Jack trashing Hammond's car. And Dr. McKenzie is always nice to see.

On the other side of the gate to me is not as interesting but still overall good. Nem seems to me like a troubled soul. He is not a bad person just determined to find his loved one. A lot of us would go to great lengths for one us love. Maybe too far from the audience perspective but I understand where he was coming from and I can respect that.

SF_and_Coffee
August 21st, 2011, 03:49 PM
Jack wigging out and trashing Hammond's car is a scene that never gets old for me. Likewise, the portrayal of how deep the bonds between the SG-1 personnel had already become is absolutely heartwarming.

As for Nem, his sheer tenacity with regard to finding out what happened to Omoroca is heartbreaking. The similarity between himself and Daniel in having lost their mates to the Goa'uld is nicely done, especially Daniel's eventual realization of it.

Lunaeclipse
August 23rd, 2011, 10:37 PM
Jack wigging out and trashing Hammond's car is a scene that never gets old for me. Likewise, the portrayal of how deep the bonds between the SG-1 personnel had already become is absolutely heartwarming.

As for Nem, his sheer tenacity with regard to finding out what happened to Omoroca is heartbreaking. The similarity between himself and Daniel in having lost their mates to the Goa'uld is nicely done, especially Daniel's eventual realization of it.

I felt for Nem, it was clear that he loved Omarocca and wanted to find her. He must've been waiting a long time, so maybe that's why he didn't want to let Daniel go so easily...

garhkal
August 27th, 2011, 03:11 PM
Excellent post, Traveler! I love your points. This was a good episode to show how close the team has gotten over the course of a very short period of time. The friendship is what makes this series so great to me. They care about each other and that just moves the stories beyond run of the mill sci-fi. I love the human aspect. A good episode, that really showed the bonds of the team, but especially how much Jack cared about Daniel.

Of all the Jack/daniel eps we have had this ranks up there.

Noxbait
August 27th, 2011, 06:36 PM
Of all the Jack/daniel eps we have had this ranks up there.

:indeed: one of the best! :)

hedwig
August 27th, 2011, 07:57 PM
I felt for Nem, it was clear that he loved Omarocca and wanted to find her. He must've been waiting a long time, so maybe that's why he didn't want to let Daniel go so easily...

If Nem's and Daniel's conversation was anything to go by, then Nem had been waiting to hear anything about Omarocca for over 4,000 years. He was questioning Daniel about the fate of Omarocca and Daniel referred to Babylon, to which Nem said "Yes". That's an exceptionally long period of waiting to find out about one's mate and still love that mate.


NEM: What fate Omoroca?

DANIEL: Okay, okay, if my life is on the line here, I need to know more. What is Omoroca? WHO is Omoroca?

NEM: My MATE!

DANIEL: What? On Earth? In Babylon?

NEM: Yes

DANIEL: And you don't know what's happened to her? That was 4,000 years ago.

SF_and_Coffee
August 27th, 2011, 08:16 PM
If Nem's and Daniel's conversation was anything to go by, then Nem had been waiting to hear anything about Omarocca for over 4,000 years. He was questioning Daniel about the fate of Omarocca and Daniel referred to Babylon, to which Nem said "Yes". That's an exceptionally long period of waiting to find out about one's mate and still love that mate.
Maybe not so long if you've spent huge periods of it hibernating. That's kind of the impression I got from the show, that Nem had been in some type of hibernation or suspended animation during some of that time and may not even have been fully aware of how much time had passed when he encountered Daniel.

garhkal
August 27th, 2011, 09:16 PM
Perhaps it was our arrival which woke him.

SF_and_Coffee
August 28th, 2011, 05:43 AM
That's kind of what I think. He may have had some type of automated sensor that tripped whenever anyone arrived via the Stargate and would wake him to check out the visitors and possibly interrogate them if they seemed likely to have useful information.

hedwig
August 28th, 2011, 08:55 AM
Maybe not so long if you've spent huge periods of it hibernating. That's kind of the impression I got from the show, that Nem had been in some type of hibernation or suspended animation during some of that time and may not even have been fully aware of how much time had passed when he encountered Daniel.

Did I miss something? When was it suggested Nem had been hibernating? I suppose that could be the case, but I don't recall anything being said about that.

SF_and_Coffee
August 28th, 2011, 09:01 AM
I didn't say it was said; I said it would make sense and what we saw in the ep did imply that to my mind and to some other peoples' as well, based on the opinions of RL friends who also followed the show and watched the episode. What, we aren't allowed to speculate on things the series didn't explicitly spell out? May as well shut down GW altogether then and turn out the lights. Someone tell Darren he can find something else to do. :P

lostmonkey70
October 9th, 2011, 04:47 PM
Awww... Jackson's first "death." So awesome. I thought this was an okay episode otherwise.

hlndncr
October 10th, 2011, 10:40 AM
Awww... Jackson's first "death." So awesome. I thought this was an okay episode otherwise.

Well he has actually died twice before this. Once in the movie and again in The Nox. This is his first faux death. :)

lostmonkey70
October 11th, 2011, 09:04 AM
Well he has actually died twice before this. Once in the movie and again in The Nox. This is his first faux death. :)

I can't believe I forgot about the movie. I'm watching it on Netflix, so I saw The Nox after Fire and Water. And I guess this isn't even really his first faux death, unless we just count the fact that everyone thinks he's dead. After all, in COTG everyone on Earth except Jack thinks he's dead.

hlndncr
October 11th, 2011, 10:21 AM
I can't believe I forgot about the movie. I'm watching it on Netflix, so I saw The Nox after Fire and Water. And I guess this isn't even really his first faux death, unless we just count the fact that everyone thinks he's dead. After all, in COTG everyone on Earth except Jack thinks he's dead.

True, true! See even before the end of S1 Daniel dying is old news. ;)

Lunaeclipse
October 12th, 2011, 10:40 PM
True, true! See even before the end of S1 Daniel dying is old news. ;)

Yep after this ep, I never believed that he was dead ...again...

Dimes
December 23rd, 2011, 09:09 AM
Okay episode.
Feel kinda bad for the loner :((

Sam-n-Jack-in-<3
July 26th, 2012, 09:29 AM
Not the best, but a very good look at team relationships. The sense of loss that hits them, especially Sam and Jack, when they think Daniel is dead is obviously very strong.

Oh, yes...in The Many Deaths of Daniel Jackson, this is the third. Jeez...only half a season in and already Danny's 'died' three times!? Nothing but a foreshadowing of things to come...

Does anyone else think the fish-dude was a ripoff of Admiral Ackbar? :P

garhkal
July 28th, 2012, 09:40 PM
His third?? How? He had one in the motion picture, and then this was his 2nd..

dipsofjazz
July 29th, 2012, 07:49 AM
His third?? How? He had one in the motion picture, and then this was his 2nd..

You're forgetting that all of SG-1 was killed in the Nox.

garhkal
July 29th, 2012, 02:37 PM
AHhhh.. thanks. Forgot about that death.

ComtessedeBussy
August 1st, 2012, 09:16 AM
Just watched this episode for the first time a few days ago. Not sure if this has been said before, but I feel the need to point out that Michael Shanks looked very sexy in that wet t-shirt in this episode. And his blue eyes without his glasses...

okay, fangirl mode over, though. I can't help thinking that Nem and Jackson are similar in that they both lost their wife, their mate, to the Goul'd, and I'd have liked the episode to have focused a bit more on that, if they'd had at least a small conversation about it, instead of Jackson just mentioning it in passing.

Lunaeclipse
August 1st, 2012, 01:31 PM
Just watched this episode for the first time a few days ago. Not sure if this has been said before, but I feel the need to point out that Michael Shanks looked very sexy in that wet t-shirt in this episode. And his blue eyes without his glasses...

okay, fangirl mode over, though. I can't help thinking that Nem and Jackson are similar in that they both lost their wife, their mate, to the Goul'd, and I'd have liked the episode to have focused a bit more on that, if they'd had at least a small conversation about it, instead of Jackson just mentioning it in passing.

I had always thought that was part of the reason he wanted to help Nem. I mean obviously he wanted his freedom to go and try to find Sha're, but given what I feel about Daniel as a person I think he would sympathize.

Zaany
August 9th, 2012, 11:39 AM
The memorial service for Daniel was very touching.
And when Sam and Teal'c arrive at the wake, O'Neilll asks something to drink ? And Sam says "Yea sure, Beer"
Gotta love a woman who says yeaah il drink some beer;)
And lets not forget the final lines as they are walking towards the gate at the end. Great stuff.. and look at O'Neills face when he says "Sushi":P Obviously they always had great fun on the set and throughout the series you can see them trying to hold back their laughter and keep a straight face lol, as can also be witnessed on all the blooper and behind the scenes footage out there.
All in all great episode with character and relationship development between the team members.

Major_Clanger
September 23rd, 2012, 09:14 AM
Aw, poor ol' Nem - I felt so bad for him, so long waiting for a definitive answer and when he got it, it was really sad.

The team bonding stuff is good, there was a lovely hug there from Jack to Sam that almost (but not quite) had me turning into a shipper.

Another look at Jack's lovely house, and Daniel's museum-like apartment. And it is always nice to see that there are a lot of other people working at the SGC. We never really get to see enough of them.

SF_and_Coffee
September 23rd, 2012, 08:15 PM
Another look at Jack's lovely house, and Daniel's museum-like apartment. And it is always nice to see that there are a lot of other people working at the SGC. We never really get to see enough of them.
Amen, to all of these.

tlw
October 15th, 2012, 06:15 PM
Hi, I am a new member. I always wished they had revisited Nem's planet and found out more about him and his mate and their culture/mythology.

Major Clanger
October 15th, 2012, 11:08 PM
me too, it always seems such a waste when we have such a hugely interesting, and potentially useful character / technology (Tin Man gets me like that too) isn't revisited. We can only hope that other SG teams are on to it.

And in the end - that's why we have fanfic.

fems
October 16th, 2012, 06:45 AM
Ugh, I thought Nem was so annoying and boring. Certainly wasn't looking forward to more contact with him.

GusF
March 31st, 2013, 04:42 AM
I watched this episode yesterday as part of my rewatch. It wasn't an episode that I was particularly looking forward to but it's a good one nonetheless. The scenes with Daniel and Nem were interesting if not terribly engrossing but the real success of this episode are the Earthbound scenes featuring Jack, Sam and Teal'c's reaction to Daniel's supposed death. While it had already been shown in every previous episode that SG-1 were willing to risk life and limb for each other, this is one of the earliest indications of the very strong bond which exists between them. That's always been one of my favourite aspects of the series.

Falcon Horus
May 17th, 2013, 04:19 PM
Psychological whump, physical whump... as a whumper this one caters all. This episode is sooooo one of my favorites. I totally love it! :D

Fraiser pretty much ordering General Hammond how to proceed next with SG1.

And I must say that I really miss the diversity in historical references -- so far we've had Egyptian gods, Norse mythology, Greek mythology, ... now Babylon and akkadian cuneiform. They'll loose that over time, so I'm going to cherish the moment. :)

garhkal
May 18th, 2013, 11:08 AM
WEll, minus out the norse gods, and most of the rest were all from the same area (sort of)..

jelgate
May 19th, 2013, 08:13 AM
I think the ancient gods was a plot device to explore stories in the early stories. Once SG1 had their story arcs they didn't need those fillers anymore

Falcon Horus
May 19th, 2013, 09:47 AM
I think the ancient gods was a plot device to explore stories in the early stories. Once SG1 had their story arcs they didn't need those fillers anymore

Too bad, I kinda liked them a lot. :)

AsgardGirl
September 15th, 2014, 06:00 AM
I like this one a lot, both on Earth and on the planet. Poor Daniel was forced to remember something he read years ago. The rest of the team had to deal with Daniel death for the first time. It shame that we didn’t see Nem race later. It’s the only known underwater intelligent live form in Stargate universe.

Falcon Horus
September 15th, 2014, 07:56 AM
It’s the only known underwater intelligent live form in Stargate universe.

No, it isn't. See Watergate in later seasons.

AsgardGirl
September 16th, 2014, 12:52 AM
No, it isn't. See Watergate in later seasons.

Taht more water itself.

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2014, 02:32 AM
But intelligent nonetheless.

kirsten187
September 16th, 2014, 07:27 AM
Psychological whump, physical whump... as a whumper this one caters all. This episode is sooooo one of my favorites. I totally love it! :D

Fraiser pretty much ordering General Hammond how to proceed next with SG1.

And I must say that I really miss the diversity in historical references -- so far we've had Egyptian gods, Norse mythology, Greek mythology, ... now Babylon and akkadian cuneiform. They'll loose that over time, so I'm going to cherish the moment. :)

I love any episode where Fraiser gets to order people around, the Napoleonic Power Monger that she is :D

Falcon Horus
September 16th, 2014, 08:52 AM
I love any episode where Fraiser gets to order people around, the Napoleonic Power Monger that she is :D

Totally agree. :p

jelgate
September 16th, 2014, 09:02 AM
But intelligent nonetheless.
Its a sign of life. Intelligent life is debatable.

kirsten187
September 16th, 2014, 09:08 AM
Totally agree. :p

But then I would say that, especially if it's Hammond she's talking to :D :hammondanime01:

garhkal
September 16th, 2014, 10:08 PM
I agree it was a pity we never got to see nam again. Or had any more info on Omaraka, such as say a quip from the Lucian alliance or Te'alc.

kirsten187
September 17th, 2014, 06:27 AM
Wasn't this the episode where O'Neill smashed the window of Hammond's car?

Falcon Horus
September 17th, 2014, 06:46 AM
Wasn't this the episode where O'Neill smashed the window of Hammond's car?

Indeed, he did.

ngewakl
January 23rd, 2015, 03:30 AM
Good episode. Only part I didn't like was the hypnosis stuff. But good episode nonetheless. Bummed we never get to see fish guy again.

maneth
August 16th, 2015, 09:21 AM
Enjoyed this one.

Anja
September 5th, 2015, 10:22 AM
Good scene between Carter and O'Neill when they realize that they left Daniel behind.
Nice words at the end.

Anja:)

Claire98909
October 9th, 2015, 12:39 PM
Has anybody else wondered if Carter was ashamed that she, the only female on her team, was a blubbering mess and had to be sedated while in the infirmary at the beginning of the episode, while her male teammates, although upset, maintained their composure and were allowed to leave the infirmary? I, personally, think her reaction to the situation was perfectly acceptable, for a male or female to have, but I can't help but wonder what she thought in hindsight.

Falcon Horus
October 9th, 2015, 01:48 PM
You'd have to ask the powers that were why they made her this emotional mess - however, keep in mind that she thought she saw Daniel get burned alive. Now, I don't know about you, but that would rattle anyone's nerves, be they male or female. I guess, the PTW just thought cause she's female she should be more emotional about it than the boys. You know, that whole "boys don't cry thing".

garhkal
October 9th, 2015, 02:08 PM
You'd have to ask the powers that were why they made her this emotional mess - however, keep in mind that she thought she saw Daniel get burned alive. Now, I don't know about you, but that would rattle anyone's nerves, be they male or female. I guess, the PTW just thought cause she's female she should be more emotional about it than the boys. You know, that whole "boys don't cry thing".

True. but knowing many females who worked in the mil, they were always blubbering a lot more at the same stuff us guys saw.. I guess its cause they ARE more emotional..

jelgate
October 9th, 2015, 02:53 PM
You'd have to ask the powers that were why they made her this emotional mess - however, keep in mind that she thought she saw Daniel get burned alive. Now, I don't know about you, but that would rattle anyone's nerves, be they male or female. I guess, the PTW just thought cause she's female she should be more emotional about it than the boys. You know, that whole "boys don't cry thing".
By S10, they wouldn't have even flinched. They knew Daniel would be back. The earlier showed Carter believed she had to be tough to be taken seriously because she was a woman. Now in that regard FH is right as most people would be in shock.

True. but knowing many females who worked in the mil, they were always blubbering a lot more at the same stuff us guys saw.. I guess its cause they ARE more emotional..
I'm going to go watch the inevitable trainwreck from the other side

Falcon Horus
October 9th, 2015, 03:34 PM
True. but knowing many females who worked in the mil, they were always blubbering a lot more at the same stuff us guys saw.. I guess its cause they ARE more emotional..

Cliche much...

garhkal
October 9th, 2015, 09:25 PM
Cliche much...

IMO its not a cliche if proven time after time..

Anja
October 10th, 2015, 05:00 AM
You'd have to ask the powers that were why they made her this emotional mess - however, keep in mind that she thought she saw Daniel get burned alive. Now, I don't know about you, but that would rattle anyone's nerves, be they male or female. I guess, the PTW just thought cause she's female she should be more emotional about it than the boys. You know, that whole "boys don't cry thing".

Perhaps the mind manipulation worked differently on male and females - maybe the creatures on that planet had a completely different POV as far as gender is concerned. So that could have led to Carter's 'more than normal' reaction.

Falcon Horus
October 10th, 2015, 06:08 AM
IMO its not a cliche if proven time after time..

Yes, and gay men cry a lot more too I guess...

Stereotyping is strong in this one!

Lunaeclipse
October 10th, 2015, 09:31 AM
Depends on the person and stuff I think because I am an emotional person, but I have seen lots of other men and woman who have been more emotional than me at times.

Claire98909
October 10th, 2015, 01:04 PM
I wish there wasn't such shame put upon men for showing emotion. I'd much rather be with a man who wasn't afraid to cry in front of me than with a "macho" man.

garhkal
October 10th, 2015, 02:04 PM
Yes, and gay men cry a lot more too I guess...

Stereotyping is strong in this one!

of the few gay men i have seen more than twice, i would say 2 are more prone to tears, while a third is even less prone than i am..

Anja
October 11th, 2015, 01:42 AM
If Carter hadn't shown as much emotion as she had I'm sure many viewers would have complaint on exactly that fact - so let her have some individual traits of character, maybe there are more and it needs some other alien devices to let them break through.

jckfan55
October 11th, 2015, 02:17 PM
I think "seeing" a friend burned alive entitles you to be a bit blubbery. It's not like O'Neill and TEal'c were unaffected, they just didn't cry.

Falcon Horus
October 11th, 2015, 02:19 PM
O'Neill just smashed Hammond's car window to pieces. To each their own.

Anja
October 12th, 2015, 01:53 AM
O'Neill just smashed Hammond's car window to pieces. To each their own.

I think he smashed it because he felt confused and didn't know which of what was going on in his mind he could believe.
Smashing the window due to confusion not to grief - he 'knew' jackson was not dead.

garhkal
October 12th, 2015, 08:09 PM
Or in frustration at being told "No go back!"..

Claire98909
October 15th, 2015, 02:16 PM
It's just that I thought that female military officers have to deal with so much crap from men who think they don't belong there. Every time there's an article online regarding women in combat at least 70% of commentators cite a woman's inclination to "be emotional" and/or physically weaker than men as why they should be kept out of combat roles, or even the military altogether. 99% of the time such comments are made by men. As evidenced by her first meeting with Jack, Kawalski, et al, it is clear that she has faced discrimination on the grounds of her gender, probably multiple times through her career.

I just think that, in hindsight, she may have been a bit ashamed of the fact that she was so hysterical that she needed to be sedated while her male teammates were allowed to leave the infirmary. Especially when she learned that her reaction was towards an event that didn't actually happen but was rather implanted into her head. Again, I see nothing wrong with the way Carter behaved, and I wouldn't have judged Jack and Teal'c for reacting the same way. I just think that she may have felt a bit foolish after the whole ordeal.

jckfan55
October 15th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Perhaps she would have been embarrassed given the pressures you mention..

Of course Doc Frasier also said she was in shock--probably from the process the alien put them through--so as a medical condition, that helps explain the blanket she got.

i think Jack suppressed his emotions through the whole experience and they came out in the car smashing.

Claire98909
October 16th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Perhaps she would have been embarrassed given the pressures you mention..

Of course Doc Frasier also said she was in shock--probably from the process the alien put them through--so as a medical condition, that helps explain the blanket she got.

i think Jack suppressed his emotions through the whole experience and they came out in the car smashing.

But are we talking real, medical shock, or television shock? In the real world, "shock" is a life-threatening condition in which a person's blood pressure is dangerously low, which can lead to organ failure if not treated. Treatment for shock usually includes medicines to raise the blood pressure, intravenous fluids, or blood products, depending on what type of shock it is.

Anja
October 17th, 2015, 04:09 AM
I think it's not shock as in medical shock with life-threatening conditions but shock as in having experienced sth you cannot grasp or take in within a short time. People surviving severe accidents uninjured often display a condition like that. IMO this was meant when Fraiser said Carter was in shock.

jckfan55
October 18th, 2015, 02:37 PM
or tv medical treatment.

Falcon Horus
October 19th, 2015, 01:37 AM
or tv medical treatment.

I think if TV medical treatment were actual treatment there'd be a lot more lawsuits for medical malpractice. :p

Anja
October 19th, 2015, 02:29 AM
I think if TV medical treatment were actual treatment there'd be a lot more lawsuits for medical malpractice. :p

N, there wouldn't be any TV medical treatment at all!

Falcon Horus
October 19th, 2015, 03:37 AM
N, there wouldn't be any TV medical treatment at all!

LOL - also true. :p

Falcon Horus
October 30th, 2017, 01:04 PM
Daniel allegedly dies a third time... For about the first 15 minutes or so, he really is well and truly dead, memorial service and wake and all.

Jack did say a few good words, which he probably will not repeat no matter how many times Daniel will ask. :p

Nem is an interesting character but as with so many, he too is forgotten, much like his wife Omoroca. I literally never heard of her before. However, Tiamat... that name I recognize... anyway, moving on...

I feel there could have been more with this episode, so I'm a bit disappointed with it.
It feels like they only scratched the surface of something that could have been far more indepth. However, what we got, I'm okay with. We see the team deal with a member's death, a friend, even though it's not real. We learn their memories have been altered. Sam reads Daniel's diary. Jack break's General Hammond's window and Teal'c gets completely mesmerized with the sound of the ocean waves and then claims hypnosis wouldn't work on him. :cool:

I do find Nem's get up brilliant. Once again the prop department made it look awesome. And my goddess, the make up and prosthetics. Top notch.

Except for the dive suit the stunt guy had to obviously wear. That could have been done better but I'll let it slide. :p

How would you rate SG-1's "Fire and Water?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 31st, 2017, 06:29 AM
Tiamat. Season 5, The Tomb, IIRC

Of all the stand alones, it makes sense to me that they don't revisit this one. The planet is seriously dangerous (despite the altered memories, it does appear that the off-gasing etc. was real), and Nem just wants to be left alone.

Seaboe

aretood2
November 1st, 2017, 02:41 PM
I feel there could have been more with this episode, so I'm a bit disappointed with it.
It feels like they only scratched the surface of something that could have been far more indepth. However, what we got, I'm okay with. We see the team deal with a member's death, a friend, even though it's not real. We learn their memories have been altered. Sam reads Daniel's diary. Jack break's General Hammond's window and Teal'c gets completely mesmerized with the sound of the ocean waves and then claims hypnosis wouldn't work on him. :cool:


They tend to do that a few times too many. I guess it's just the way of the 90's...but then again Babylon 5 did go in depth in several areas....

I wish we would have revisited this alien species. I wish they would have done that with the foothold aliens and done more with that other aliens that Carter got in a space race with.

Falcon Horus
November 10th, 2017, 04:47 AM
Tiamat. Season 5, The Tomb, IIRC

Nope, totally forgot about that one.

My sister's an assyriologist so I'm afraid it's more from real life experience than Stargate in this case. :p

jelgate
November 11th, 2017, 03:55 PM
This is one of what I call forgotten stories. SG1 has a few arcs they started but never continue. Its sad but understandable that they have to continue what works and discard which doesn't. I just think Omec as an ally as fish like would have been an interesting idea to pursue. That aside, this episode has always been enjoyable to . Not just because its the first of many times Daniel dies. I first like the tie in to Babyloian culture and not all deities on ancient Earth are Goa'uld. Also I thought this was a good episode for medical issues to show where Frasier can override Hammond and plus it shows the bonding of the team even if its a little early. I sure hope Hammond has insurance on his car:P I'll give this a fair

Falcon Horus
November 11th, 2017, 04:34 PM
Jigsaw coming soon, but let's start with the quiz first... Go test your knowledge of the episodes of week 5: Bloodlines, Fire and Water & Hathor (https://goo.gl/forms/LzkHOJ2pXthK1Z0v2).

Who Knows
November 11th, 2017, 10:09 PM
I improve with age apparently. 15/15 http://i.imgur.com/OSYtbfB.gif

Falcon Horus
November 12th, 2017, 02:03 PM
Well done, Who Knows!! :D

Now, go ahead and get on with the jigsaw... Fire and Water jigsaw featuring Nem (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=7AUQF6KB)

jelgate
November 12th, 2017, 05:06 PM
07 minutes exactly. I did very bad on this one.

Falcon Horus
November 13th, 2017, 01:01 AM
07 minutes exactly. I did very bad on this one.

Wow -- with all that blue... that's fast. :D

You are the master.

jelgate
November 13th, 2017, 04:58 AM
It was not easy. I focused on the head and worked around

Falcon Horus
November 13th, 2017, 06:38 AM
It was not easy. I focused on the head and worked around

I start at the edges and work my way in.
I also tend to look at the shapes of the pieces more often than I do at what is on them.

I'm pretty much the same with the jigsaws I make at home and end up on my walls. :)

jelgate
November 13th, 2017, 06:48 AM
You do want to focus on the edges but if you do just the edges first, it will slow your time down

Falcon Horus
November 14th, 2017, 01:37 AM
You do want to focus on the edges but if you do just the edges first, it will slow your time down

I thought that was faster... :p ...darn it.

Who Knows
November 14th, 2017, 02:53 AM
8 mins ferzacaly, & I have always got the border first.

Falcon Horus
November 14th, 2017, 04:48 AM
8 mins ferzacaly, & I have always got the border first.

:D

I think I was thought as a kid that it was easiest to start on the border. :p It stuck.

jelgate
November 14th, 2017, 01:07 PM
I thought that was faster... :p ...darn it.
It is kind of. But if you can connect similar images while doing the border, the middle can be done faster

aretood2
November 14th, 2017, 04:41 PM
8 Minutes and 25 Seconds.

Falcon Horus
November 27th, 2017, 10:42 AM
I was faster than the master, a full minute and 10 seconds faster even: 5:50