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randomking
April 9th, 2010, 07:21 PM
do you think rush stashed a stone or do you think it was taken off the ship....

Pharaoh Atem
April 9th, 2010, 07:24 PM
huh??? all 5 stones are accounted for

Replicator Todd
April 9th, 2010, 07:26 PM
I think its likely Rush accidently ended up giving a stone to the aliens as Young said.

s09119
April 9th, 2010, 07:26 PM
do you think rush stashed a stone or do you think it was taken off the ship....

Well we know from "Air, Part 2" that the box came with 5 stones and an activation device:

http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/albums/uni_season1/102-AirPart2/screencaps/normal_sgu_102_0116.jpg

How many stones are ever seen at once after that? If it's 5, we know he didn't take any. If it's less, than it leaves the door open, but I find it hard to believe no one would have ever noticed that one of the stone spots was empty and not mentioned it right away.

randomking
April 9th, 2010, 07:29 PM
in this episodeyoung confronted rush about possibly stealing one because that's the only way they alleins would have gotten the stone...young told him he would have kept the stone with him at all times after the "gun" thing so when he was left on the plaint the alleins would have found it on him...

randomking
April 9th, 2010, 07:31 PM
i think young said he thought rush had one before they evacuated

s09119
April 9th, 2010, 07:36 PM
i think young said he thought rush had one before they evacuated

There's only the one case, so where would Rush have gotten another?

randomking
April 9th, 2010, 08:12 PM
ok just watched the rerun .....rush was the first to open and use the stones by himself too....that's what young was getting at as far as if rush stashed one

erotavlas
April 9th, 2010, 08:16 PM
ok so Rush apparently had one of the stones before it was taken from him by the aliens. If this is true then he touched it while in his possession. Why then did no one ever swap consciousness with Rush when they used the stones to connect to Earth? Yet they show Young connecting via the same stone that was touched by the alien.... :S

Pharaoh Atem
April 9th, 2010, 08:17 PM
ok so Rush apparently had one of the stones before it was taken from him by the aliens. If this is true then he touched it while in his possession. Why then did no one ever swap consciousness with Rush when they used the stones to connect to Earth? Yet they show Young connecting via the same stone that was touched by the alien.... :S

the alien touched it last. so it went to the alien not rush. and rush was unconsius at the time

s09119
April 9th, 2010, 08:20 PM
ok so Rush apparently had one of the stones before it was taken from him by the aliens. If this is true then he touched it while in his possession. Why then did no one ever swap consciousness with Rush when they used the stones to connect to Earth? Yet they show Young connecting via the same stone that was touched by the alien.... :S

Many explanations, for example:

1.) They could have used a different stone this time.
2.) The only alien that ever touched/carried the stone was killed by Rush, so the connection didn't get interrupted by them.
3.) The ship with the stone was not attacking Destiny, so it was far enough away that it didn't affect the other stones.
4.) The alien ships did affect the connection, just later, explaining why it cut out prematurely and left Chloe alone.

Also, all the stones seem to be accounted for, so we don't know if the aliens actually have one. It's possible they have a similar technology, though.

erotavlas
April 9th, 2010, 08:27 PM
the alien touched it last. so it went to the alien not rush. and rush was unconsius at the time

I don't mean in that episode (space). I mean in the whole first half of the first season, from when they arrived on board to before the encounter with the aliens. During that whole time they've been communicating with Earth. If Rush did have a stone then at some point someone would have swapped consciousness with Rush.

(unless as S09119 pointed out) 1.) They could have used a different stone this time.
(i.e. they never used the correct stone that matches with the one Rush had until the episode Space)

PG15
April 9th, 2010, 08:36 PM
Perhaps Rush, knowing that this could happen, never really touched the stone with his skin.

randomking
April 9th, 2010, 08:39 PM
i see what your saying...if rush had stashed one....but they use a *rag* when they move the stones around untell they go to use them...maby it needs direct contact to "link" to some one?...henc rush could have just used a rag or shirt or something to put in his pocket

PG15
April 9th, 2010, 08:48 PM
Indeed. All he'd need is to wrap a tissue paper or something around the stone and that'd be it.

Pharaoh Atem
April 9th, 2010, 08:54 PM
tinfoil

jelgate
April 9th, 2010, 08:59 PM
No I don't think Rush had the stone. It would have been obvious a long time ago if one was missing when connections to Earth were made

GoodSmeagol
April 9th, 2010, 09:10 PM
You are all forgetting that we played with the tech...
The stones need to be on the platform to be active at least to connect to Destiny.
We see this when they remove the stone from the box, and the real person comes to.

Box+Stone=Connection
No box no connection.
Now that equation is lost once aliens again play with the stone.
But to answer your OP question.
Rush did not connect because the stone was not on the box.

erotavlas
April 9th, 2010, 09:38 PM
You are all forgetting that we played with the tech...
The stones need to be on the platform to be active at least to connect to Destiny.
We see this when they remove the stone from the box, and the real person comes to.

Box+Stone=Connection
No box no connection.
Now that equation is lost once aliens again play with the stone.
But to answer your OP question.
Rush did not connect because the stone was not on the box.

the aliens have no box / terminal, therefore by your logic Young cannot swap consciousness with the alien in Space. Yet he does exactly that.

erotavlas
April 9th, 2010, 09:49 PM
i just realized we saw this happen in SG1 with Vala and Daniel swapped with those two in the Ori galaxy.
Daniel and Vala touched the stones which were connected to their active terminal
-->(similar to Young on Destiny)

while they connect to two others on the Ori galaxy who previously touched the matching pair of stones but which were not connected to an active terminal
-->(blue alien in Space)

so i think my original observation still stands, they could have connected to Rush is he handled the stone with his bare hands at some point before the alien touched it...

HOWEVER...
this actually makes me think of another problem. Do the stones work in pairs? If so how could Young even connect to a stone that Rush took from the set they had on Destiny? if the matching pair is on Earth?

Daro
April 9th, 2010, 09:56 PM
I'm not entirely sure that Rush had a stone. I mean, he said he did. But he lies every time he talks to Young, or at least evades telling the truth. If he'd said "No way, not me," then Young certainly wouldn't have believed him. The response he made, "Oh well," was kinda hilarious.

s09119
April 9th, 2010, 10:03 PM
the aliens have no box / terminal, therefore by your logic Young cannot swap consciousness with the alien in Space. Yet he does exactly that.

That we know of.

MattSilver 3k
April 9th, 2010, 10:05 PM
I'm thinking that the fact it's been drilled into our heads the last two episodes that "We don't know exactly how the stones work" makes no big plotholes until its explained. And even if, I think the explanation that Rush had a stone that was confiscated and the aliens fiddled with it and Young hopped into one of them is a damn sight more explain-y than anything we came up with after Space was done.

dacooker
April 9th, 2010, 11:38 PM
Umm it might not be obvious to Young because a lot has been happening on Destiny. However we've all watched the episodes, we've all seen the smurf mind readers, we can all pretty much connect the dots between these devices and the stones.

Avenger
April 9th, 2010, 11:56 PM
I'm not entirely sure that Rush had a stone. I mean, he said he did. But he lies every time he talks to Young, or at least evades telling the truth. If he'd said "No way, not me," then Young certainly wouldn't have believed him. The response he made, "Oh well," was kinda hilarious.

That is definitely a point to consider. We don't know if Rush is telling the truth about having a stone or not.

Commander Zelix
April 9th, 2010, 11:59 PM
I'm thinking that the fact it's been drilled into our heads the last two episodes that "We don't know exactly how the stones work"
Which is kind of a plot hole by itself since they are using a home made stone device. Maybe they should ask around next time they dial earth.

pipi
April 10th, 2010, 03:11 AM
Here's two theories that could fill any plot holes.
1. The stones work by using an external device (aka a box) to dial the receiving stones. It wouldn't make any sense to dial just any stone in the entire galaxy, the stones probably have to be preconfigured like a remote key of a car. So these stones only work with each other and the ones preconfigured from Earth, so an alien having another stone by chance would be invalid based on this theory. Now, the proceedure for communicating with Earth always seem to be that Destiny dials Earth not the other way around. That's why no one from Earth has accidentally connected with Rush's hidden stone. And if they tried it'd be a 25% chance that they'd get Rush instead of someone else.

2. The stones need you to be near by to work. This is evident in SG-1 with O'neal's office directly beneath a storage facility of the stones. O'neal never actually touched the stones did he? But everytime O'neal wrote in his journal, that wacky barber listen in on his stories. And even if O'neal did touch the stones last, which I doubt (the clergy man was probably the last) the stones only communicated while O'neal was at his desk not while he was anywhere else. Although the communication was not a complete mind swap, hopefully the general principles still apply.

escyos
April 10th, 2010, 03:14 AM
ok just watched the rerun .....rush was the first to open and use the stones by himself too....that's what young was getting at as far as if rush stashed one

then he comes out and tells everyone "in this case are 5 communication stones"

ckwongau
April 10th, 2010, 03:33 AM
Maybe that is a plot twist , not a plot hole.
Dr Rush was the one who brought the stone communication system to Destiny, he was the one who activated first.
He probably kept one stone before he share it with the other.
We never saw Dr Rush use the stone after the first episode, but maybe he got his own stone , may be Dr Rush has contact with someone in milkyway and the other side send someone back in Rush's place.

The possibilities of Rush being the mole could be interesting.

muz84
April 10th, 2010, 03:45 AM
Are the communication stones more of a plot give away.
The season 1.5 trailer had telford telling the crew of the destiny "They're comming". Did the smurfs figure out how to use the stones and contact earth. they would arrive at earth and mind probe whoever transfered to the smurf ship.

Jper
April 10th, 2010, 04:03 AM
I don't think Rush had a stone. It was just Young speculating he had one. That's all. All stones seem to be accounted for. :) There were five slots in the box, and there are five stones accounted for. Where would the sixth stone be? Not to mention wouldn't this have surfaced a long time ago? As I saw it in this episode, Young was being his usual self again, just speculating and putting Rush at fault.

Jper
April 10th, 2010, 04:05 AM
I don't think Rush had a stone. It was just Young speculating he had one. That's all. All stones seem to be accounted for. :) There were five slots in the box, and there are five stones accounted for. Where would the sixth stone be? Not to mention wouldn't this have surfaced a long time ago? As I saw it in this episode, Young was being his usual self again, just speculating and putting Rush at fault.

Guiguioh
April 10th, 2010, 06:09 AM
I don't know the right answer to this, but the Aliens did have a stone, we saw it when Rush was connected to the mind of the Alien in "Space". It was less than a second though so I'm sure most people could have missed it. See this cap:

Alien with Stone from Space (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3537/smurfstoned.png)

And the only way the Aliens could have one is through Rush so Young is right IMO.

Guiguioh
April 10th, 2010, 06:16 AM
I don't know the right answer to this, but the Aliens did have a stone, we saw it when Rush was connected to the mind of the Alien in "Space". It was less than a second though so I'm sure most people could have missed it. See this cap:

Alien with Stone from Space (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3537/smurfstoned.png)

And the only way the Aliens could have one is through Rush so Young is right IMO.

Ser Scot A Ellison
April 10th, 2010, 06:20 AM
Well, each stone as a nice little foam nook to store it in. If one was missing from the case wouldn't it have been obvious to anyone who was looking at the stone storage case?

Jper
April 10th, 2010, 06:27 AM
I don't know, if that is indeed a stone, there a other ways they could have obtained it, or maybe even engineered it themselves. They were quite familiar with mind-linking technology, or so it seems to me.

Andru10
April 10th, 2010, 06:55 AM
I don't know, if that is indeed a stone, there a other ways they could have obtained it, or maybe even engineered it themselves. They were quite familiar with mind-linking technology, or so it seems to me.

Rush said the aliens weren't as advanced as the Ancients and like us don't understand how stone technology works. The problem isn't the mind-linking it's the "signal" the stones use to communicate instantaneously over large distances.
I think people are over-analyzing this one ... the explanation was given: Rush had a stone, the aliens took it and activated it by touch therefore Young connected to the alien. Occam's razor, the simplest explanation is generally the best. (it's also mentioned in the episode transcript that the alien is seen with an Ancient communication stone)

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 10th, 2010, 08:43 AM
I find it more interesting that Rush did it at all. That took some forethought, which makes me wonder what else he knows

garhkal
April 10th, 2010, 10:48 AM
Well, yet again rush left US wondering by his "Oh well" statement to young about whether he had one.

TO be honest i am not sure if he did, or if the blue aliens got one from the ship before we even got there...

Jper
April 10th, 2010, 10:56 AM
Well, yet again rush left US wondering by his "Oh well" statement to young about whether he had one.

Oh well, he's still Rush after all. :)

garhkal
April 10th, 2010, 10:58 AM
the aliens have no box / terminal, therefore by your logic Young cannot swap consciousness with the alien in Space. Yet he does exactly that.

If you watch SGA season 4 where keller swapps with that thief, you would know the answer. The closer the are to one another the less need there is for a platform.


And the only way the Aliens could have one is through Rush so Young is right IMO.
As i mentioned in another thread, since it was said that the ancients DID plan on coming to the Destiny at some point, it would stand to reason they would have left a comm device and stones so they could communicate back without having to waste the power by dialing the gate. Perhaps THAT is where they found the stone, since it has been mentioned that the aliens have been on the ship before we got there.

Jper
April 10th, 2010, 11:17 AM
As i mentioned in another thread, since it was said that the ancients DID plan on coming to the Destiny at some point, it would stand to reason they would have left a comm device and stones so they could communicate back without having to waste the power by dialing the gate.

You mean to say Rush found another communication device and set of stones on Destiny?


Perhaps THAT is where they found the stone, since it has been mentioned that the aliens have been on the ship before we got there.

As far as I know no one ever said the aliens were actually on Destiny, as in on the inside, and then they explored it. I don't thing this is right. Where do you get this?

GoodSmeagol
April 10th, 2010, 11:56 AM
the aliens have no box / terminal, therefore by your logic Young cannot swap consciousness with the alien in Space. Yet he does exactly that.

You missed the part where I said once the Aliens get their hands on the tech, the equation is out the window. Easy enough to try and activate the stone sans le box, or imagine the aliens cracking it...

I stick 100% to for Destiny crew to connect to anyone, the stone needs to be on the box, because HUMANS fuct with the tech to make it work our way not the ancient way.
We see this almost every episode stones are used, stone removed from box = disconnect!

Jper
April 10th, 2010, 02:37 PM
You missed the part where I said once the Aliens get their hands on the tech, the equation is out the window. Easy enough to try and activate the stone sans le box, or imagine the aliens cracking it...

I stick 100% to for Destiny crew to connect to anyone, the stone needs to be on the box, because HUMANS fuct with the tech to make it work our way not the ancient way.
We see this almost every episode stones are used, stone removed from box = disconnect!

Fact remains that we still don't understand or know how exactly those stones work. And also, the stones themselves are still completely Ancient, only the box is Earth made.

timebandit
April 10th, 2010, 07:54 PM
If Rush had an extra [6th] stone, it would explain everything, except how he was able to get it, and if he had used it [previous to his justice marooning and subsequent rescue-ish abduction] while on destiny [who it connected to].

It doesnt make sense to me how the destiny stone room isn't guarded enough to ever notice one of the 5 stones missing [as in, they do routine checks, guard duty etc].

That part of justice where Wray looks into the mirror and her hand is shaking, perhaps rush and wray are both using stone number 6. In fact, maybe she brought it aboard and let Rush in on that, and he took it...

EllieVee
April 11th, 2010, 02:40 AM
It doesn't seem logical to me that he had one. Is there one missing from the box? Aren't there slots for them?

Jper
April 11th, 2010, 02:50 AM
I hope this will be further explored or explained in one of the upcoming episodes...

Wayston
April 11th, 2010, 02:59 AM
if rush had an extra stone then wouldn't the communication device have defaulted to rush's mind on the destiny instead of earth, especially since he has supposedly been keeping the stone on his body... there must be something more to it than the argument that the closer the stones the less need for a platform

pipi
April 11th, 2010, 04:14 AM
It doesn't seem logical to me that he had one. Is there one missing from the box? Aren't there slots for them?

It is not possible for there to be a 6th stone originally from Icarus base. But it is possible for a stone to already exist on Destiny that Rush found but didn't tell anyone. I've rewatched the pilot episode and Rush only carried his personal stuff through the gate while Young brought the box with 5 stones. And in the episode where Young communicated with the alien, he put 1 stone on the box and there were 4 remaining in that foam padding, hence no stolen stones. So I don't know how Young can make such an accusation when there were still 5 stones in the box after Rush was left for dead unless he's going on the mystery Destiny stones or just trying to stir up something.

EllieVee
April 11th, 2010, 04:22 AM
Okay, so that being the case Young's just made a fool of himself (again).

thekillman
April 11th, 2010, 04:26 AM
we don't know if rush had a commstone from the beginning.

EllieVee
April 11th, 2010, 04:28 AM
Or where he could have possibly have got one from even if he did.

pipi
April 11th, 2010, 04:47 AM
we don't know if rush had a commstone from the beginning.

It would seem very unlikely for Rush to be carrying a stone in his pocket (or even hidden in his room) the entire time they were fiddling around with the dialing computer from Icarus before the attack. I'm pretty sure all stones would be under lock and key, and no one even knew that there was a box with stones in it sitting on the side of the gate except Young (probably because the stones were highly classified need to know, reserved for the upper brass).

Jper
April 11th, 2010, 04:55 AM
Okay, so that being the case Young's just made a fool of himself (again).

With the emphasis on again.


Or where he could have possibly have got one from even if he did.

But we do know that the alien had one. Or at least that's what it looks like he's holding in Space, and would make sense.

erotavlas
April 11th, 2010, 08:54 AM
If you watch SGA season 4 where keller swapps with that thief, you would know the answer. The closer the are to one another the less need there is for a platform.


actually season 5 - identity

i don't think distance has anything to do with it. Keller and the thief were not that close (albeit in the same galaxy, they were on different planets.) Their method of swapping was the same as Daniel and Vala when they went to the Ori home galaxy. In that case there was even a greater distance between them.

i think that there only needs to be one terminal active for the swapping to occur. Actually that would make more sense since it would allow one person to be traveling (without that bulky terminal to carry, they just carry a stone or touch it and don't need to carry anything anymore) while the observers at a home base with the terminal can swap and visit what's going on with the traveler's environment and communicate.

OMG I just realized what if that is the proper way the stones work to begin with and by using two terminals at once to connect with earth with the same matching set of stones, causes all the problems they are having! like having two communication lines open at the same time...

Guiguioh
April 11th, 2010, 12:03 PM
I think the use of stones is pretty consistent in the whole franchise:

No terminal = No body swap, only mind link. (SG-1 8.15 "Citizen Joe")

One terminal with communication used in the same galaxy = Full body swap between the stone bearer and the terminal user (SGA 5.18 "Identity"; SGU 1.11 "Space")

One terminal with communication used between two galaxies = Half body swap. Only the user with the terminal takes control of the stone bearer on the other end (SG-1 9.02 "Avalon Part 2"; SG-1 9.03 "Origin Part 3"; SG-1 9.19 "Crusade Part 1")

Two terminals with communication used between two galaxies = Full body swap between the two terminal users (Brieftly in SG-1 9.03 "Origin Part 3"; in all applicable SGU episodes besides "Space")

So first, can other forum users comment on that. Am I in the right to think the producers now what they are doing with the stones because it seems pretty consistent to me?

I would also like to know the definitive story about the stone that was on the Alien ship in SGU. Maybe someone could ask Joe Mallozi about that on his blog?

ChrisSThomas
April 11th, 2010, 01:02 PM
HOWEVER...
this actually makes me think of another problem. Do the stones work in pairs? If so how could Young even connect to a stone that Rush took from the set they had on Destiny? if the matching pair is on Earth?

I was thinking the exact same thing. As I remember it the stones do work in pairs. They can only connect to the stone that is paired with it. If Rush had a sixth stone than it would have to be a stone that was paired with the one Young uses which is possible I suppose but seems unlikely it would have been the case. I can see Rush messing with the stones if there was a sixth one. He has been trying to gain control of the ship so maybe he fiddled with a sixth stone he had to connect it to Young's stone but avoided touching it or cleared it on the terminal so Young wouldn't connect with him. He could then use it later to switch bodies with Young and take control of the ship at a pivotal moment. That is the only reason he would have a stone as I can see it.
I don't think that screen cap someone posted i definitive proof because the thing the alien is holding looks too big to be a stone.
I think it is more likely that somehow the aliens found a way to disrupt the stones or their mind reading technology interfered as some have postulated. We have already seen the stone act screwy when the aliens are around twice. Maybe the proximity of the aliens screws with the stones.

erotavlas
April 11th, 2010, 01:32 PM
I think the use of stones is pretty consistent in the whole franchise:

No terminal = No body swap, only mind link. (SG-1 8.15 "Citizen Joe")

One terminal with communication used in the same galaxy = Full body swap between the stone bearer and the terminal user (SGA 5.18 "Identity"; SGU 1.11 "Space")

One terminal with communication used between two galaxies = Half body swap. Only the user with the terminal takes control of the stone bearer on the other end (SG-1 9.02 "Avalon Part 2"; SG-1 9.03 "Origin Part 3"; SG-1 9.19 "Crusade Part 1")

Two terminals with communication used between two galaxies = Full body swap between the two terminal users (Brieftly in SG-1 9.03 "Origin Part 3"; in all applicable SGU episodes besides "Space")

So first, can other forum users comment on that. Am I in the right to think the producers now what they are doing with the stones because it seems pretty consistent to me?

I would also like to know the definitive story about the stone that was on the Alien ship in SGU. Maybe someone could ask Joe Mallozi about that on his blog?

thanks for that. I had forgotten that in SG1 Avalon, the full body swap was established after Daniel and Vala activated the second terminal in the Ori galaxy.

You're right their use is pretty consistent.

Jper
April 11th, 2010, 02:58 PM
I think the use of stones is pretty consistent in the whole franchise:

No terminal = No body swap, only mind link. (SG-1 8.15 "Citizen Joe")

One terminal with communication used in the same galaxy = Full body swap between the stone bearer and the terminal user (SGA 5.18 "Identity"; SGU 1.11 "Space")

One terminal with communication used between two galaxies = Half body swap. Only the user with the terminal takes control of the stone bearer on the other end (SG-1 9.02 "Avalon Part 2"; SG-1 9.03 "Origin Part 3"; SG-1 9.19 "Crusade Part 1")

Two terminals with communication used between two galaxies = Full body swap between the two terminal users (Brieftly in SG-1 9.03 "Origin Part 3"; in all applicable SGU episodes besides "Space")

So first, can other forum users comment on that. Am I in the right to think the producers now what they are doing with the stones because it seems pretty consistent to me?

I would also like to know the definitive story about the stone that was on the Alien ship in SGU. Maybe someone could ask Joe Mallozi about that on his blog?

Green for that. :) Great summary. :)

garhkal
April 11th, 2010, 03:30 PM
You mean to say Rush found another communication device and set of stones on Destiny?

As far as I know no one ever said the aliens were actually on Destiny, as in on the inside, and then they explored it. I don't thing this is right. Where do you get this?

No i mean the aliens were already once in destiny.. and found the device.. And iirc rush did mention they had been there before.


actually season 5 - identity

Thanks for the correction.

Jper
April 11th, 2010, 03:37 PM
No i mean the aliens were already once in destiny.. and found the device.. And iirc rush did mention they had been there before.

Not that I know off. I think you need to go look for that quote. :) As far as I know Rush said they know of Destiny's existence. They seen it from the outside. They've attacked it before. But they've never been on the inside.

garhkal
April 15th, 2010, 04:10 PM
I'll give you that.