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View Full Version : Rush acted in self-defense?



rsanchez
April 9th, 2010, 07:06 PM
If I understand the episode correctly, Rush orchestrated the mutiny against Young because he knew the aliens had implanted a tracking device on him, and Rush was afraid Young would get rid of him because at least then Young would have had a good reason. Rush took advantage of Wray's distrust of Young and used her to lead the civilian personnel in the mutiny. Rush knew he needed the shields to resist the aliens' attacks when they did arrive, and presumably without Young over his shoulder he would have the time he needs to find a way to defeat the aliens when the Destiny got back into FTL after the attack.

Rush is indeed manipulative.

s09119
April 9th, 2010, 07:08 PM
If I understand the episode correctly, Rush orchestrated the mutiny against Young because he knew the aliens had implanted a tracking device on him, and Rush was afraid Young would get rid of him because at least then Young would have had a good reason. Rush took advantage of Wray's distrust of Young and used her to lead the civilian personnel in the mutiny. Rush knew he needed the shields to resist the aliens' attacks when they did arrive, and presumably without Young over his shoulder he would have the time he needs to find a way to defeat the aliens while the Destiny was in FTL.

Rush is indeed manipulative.

That was part of the reason, yes, but the civilians had felt this way from Day One. He probably stepped up the schedule of when they were going to make their move for his own sake, but the mutiny wasn't for his sake alone. As we saw, all of the people on the civilian side already agreed with Wray's opinion, and Wray herself wanted to use Rush's experience of being abandoned to galvanize them.

Replicator Todd
April 9th, 2010, 07:09 PM
Rush by far is the most interested character on the show for the reason that we don't know what his true motives are, ever. But its odd how many people he can manipulate easy.

Avenger
April 9th, 2010, 07:19 PM
It was part of his motivation for the mutiny, but he wasn't doing just for himself. There were plenty of other people who felt the need to remove Young from power, which started before Rush was left on the planet in Justice.

prion
April 9th, 2010, 07:19 PM
Well, considering the impromptu "cut it out of him" speech Young gave him, I can see why Rush would be concerned. Since Young has already demonstrated he's quite happy to kill Rush by leaving him on a deserted planet...

Now if you got rid of both Young and Rush, the Destiny would probably be less stressful ;)

rsanchez
April 9th, 2010, 07:23 PM
Well, considering the impromptu "cut it out of him" speech Young gave him, I can see why Rush would be concerned. Since Young has already demonstrated he's quite happy to kill Rush by leaving him on a deserted planet...

Now if you got rid of both Young and Rush, the Destiny would probably be less stressful ;)
Yeah, until the aliens arrive again, Wray and Scott have no idea how to lead the ship, and they all get killed. ;)

TheRandomOne
April 9th, 2010, 07:27 PM
Yeah, until the aliens arrive again, Wray and Scott have no idea how to lead the ship, and they all get killed. ;)

Greer would kill everyone but him & Scott before being forced to listen to civilians

mere earthling
April 9th, 2010, 07:48 PM
Well, considering the impromptu "cut it out of him" speech Young gave him, I can see why Rush would be concerned. Since Young has already demonstrated he's quite happy to kill Rush by leaving him on a deserted planet...

Now if you got rid of both Young and Rush, the Destiny would probably be less stressful ;)

First of all great episode, I really like this show.

Anyway, so Rush knows he has this device inside him, why doesn't HE suggest it get taken out of him-using the same methods that they ended up using. He then makes himself look better and possibly gets Young to trust him a bit. Again, Rush puts them all at risk, for what?

Cory Holmes
April 9th, 2010, 08:13 PM
Rush puts them all at risk, for what?
Because that's his nature. He's selfish, manipulative, and self-serving above all other considerations. He's not just going to change on the drop of a dime, especially when he still has "issues" with Young.

Young isn't much different. He's impatient, hot-tempered, quick to judge and quicker to act. He still exhibits all those dangerous, destructive behaviours simply because that's the man he is right now.

I suspect that in Season 3 or 5, we'll be looking back at Season 1 and shaking our heads at how the characters acted "back then". This show has set its plots and character developments for the long haul and it hasn't been that long yet :)

Astria
April 9th, 2010, 08:20 PM
Rush used this as an excuse. He is dangerous. He thinks nothing of putting the crew in danger. He was willing to let the aliens follow them. There was a chance that the shield wouldn't hold, and the ship would blow up, killing them all.

Young was right about cutting the tracking device out of Rush. There was no other choice.

jelgate
April 9th, 2010, 09:02 PM
After the events of Justice and Young's final lines in Divided I highly doubt he would throw out of an airlock. Especially since no airlocks were available. As for self-defense I say Rush brings it on himself for his mantipulation

Pharaoh Atem
April 9th, 2010, 09:03 PM
After the events of Justice and Young's final lines in Divided I highly doubt he would throw out of an airlock. Especially since no airlocks were available. As for self-defense I say Rush brings it on himself for his mantipulation

exactly if he just chilled out and would let col. young in on what's he's working on alot of conflict and distrust would go away.

Daro
April 9th, 2010, 10:07 PM
I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that Rush was just up to his old, self-serving tricks for the whole bit. I agree that he stepped up the schedule because of his own fears, but I can hardly blame him. Why would he risk letting TJ, who is not trained for the kind of operation that was needed and is also under Young's command, cut him open and poke around?
On the other hand, he once again put others at risk for his own safety. I can't condone that, but I do think he has shown that he isn't always selfish. He did save Chloe, and with no reason I could believe other than to simply save her from the tortures he'd been put through.
As far as his plan for making the aliens go away, that was never going to work. It showed Rush in a vulnurable moment, where he was unwilling to face cold logic when it lead him to a result that endangered his life. He did the opposite by saving Young and Scott from vaporization. I like this new version of him, bouncing between what he used to be and (hopefully, now that he cares about at least one person on that ship and she can influence him) what he will become.

Lahela
April 9th, 2010, 11:35 PM
But it was Wray's idea, so how is it that Rush manipulated the whole thing?

Gollumpus
April 10th, 2010, 12:32 AM
... (hopefully, now that he cares about at least one person on that ship and she can influence him) what he will become.

Assuming this is the case, I think that any influence Chloe has on Rush will last only as long as the decision being made will: a.) benefit Chloe; b.) not injure Rush in any way. Her new found respect(?) for Rush will last only until the moment when Rush decides to sacrifice Chloe for some greater good. For the greater good of Rush.

regards,
G.

Daro
April 10th, 2010, 12:33 AM
Was I alone in thinking that, at the end of 'Space,' when Wray was talking to Rush about 'next time,' he looked...well, afraid? I mean, that makes sense even more knowing about the implant now. I'm not saying she dragged him kicking and screaming, but I think it'd be more fair to say that she manipulated him for her own goals. Though after this episode and the last, I don't dislike Wray anymore. But I wouldn't trust her by any means.

Gollumpus
April 10th, 2010, 12:38 AM
I think Wray and Rush very happily used each other. What I don't get is that neither seems to have an understanding that neither of them could fill the power vacuum left by a "departed" Young.

regards,
G.

Lahela
April 10th, 2010, 12:39 AM
Was I alone in thinking that, at the end of 'Space,' when Wray was talking to Rush about 'next time,' he looked...well, afraid? I mean, that makes sense even more knowing about the implant now. I'm not saying she dragged him kicking and screaming, but I think it'd be more fair to say that she manipulated him for her own goals. Though after this episode and the last, I don't dislike Wray anymore. But I wouldn't trust her by any means.

I felt she was pulling the strings at the end of Space - I think she'd happily sacrifice Rush if that's what it took to achieve her goals.

Daro
April 10th, 2010, 12:51 AM
I don't think she'd happily do it. I mean, she did cry in 'Light' when she was picked to be one of the fifteen on the shuttle. I presume she did so because she knew everyone else was going to die. Perhaps we may be reading more ruthlessness than she truly posesses into her actions because she seems to be doing exactly what the IOA representative suggested.
That said, I do agree she'd do it. We don't quite know her goals yet, whether she wants to get power for her own sake, for the IOA, or for the people on the ship. But whatever the reason, Rush is only a tool to be used in that scheme, that much is pretty clear. If she got him killed, I'd have to stop watching the show. I'm almost certain he's a decent person, deep down. I'm still trying to figure Wray out.

Lahela
April 10th, 2010, 01:26 AM
I don't think she'd happily do it. I mean, she did cry in 'Light' when she was picked to be one of the fifteen on the shuttle. I presume she did so because she knew everyone else was going to die. Perhaps we may be reading more ruthlessness than she truly posesses into her actions because she seems to be doing exactly what the IOA representative suggested.

"Happily" was a poor choice of word on my part - I meant that she would let it happen if circumstances gave her no choice and it seems to me she'd be able to live with it.


That said, I do agree she'd do it. We don't quite know her goals yet, whether she wants to get power for her own sake, for the IOA, or for the people on the ship. But whatever the reason, Rush is only a tool to be used in that scheme, that much is pretty clear. If she got him killed, I'd have to stop watching the show. I'm almost certain he's a decent person, deep down. I'm still trying to figure Wray out.


I agree on both counts.

Khentkawes
April 10th, 2010, 02:01 AM
Was I alone in thinking that, at the end of 'Space,' when Wray was talking to Rush about 'next time,' he looked...well, afraid? I mean, that makes sense even more knowing about the implant now. I'm not saying she dragged him kicking and screaming, but I think it'd be more fair to say that she manipulated him for her own goals. Though after this episode and the last, I don't dislike Wray anymore. But I wouldn't trust her by any means.

I did think that Rush looked afraid at the end of Space, both when he was talking to Young and when he was talking to Wray, so I can see where you might think Wray was manipulating him a bit. It also seems like, if the mutiny would have succeeded, Wray would have been charge. So in some respects, I think she was using Rush to further her bid for power. Whereas I don't think Rush ever expected to be in charge. He might also have worried about what Wray would do if she found out about the implant (which might contribute to that scared look). Still, even if she knew about it, she might be more sympathetic to Rush's situation than Young. So I think it would make sense that Rush was motivated more by self-defense than by any desire for power.


We don't quite know her goals yet, whether she wants to get power for her own sake, for the IOA, or for the people on the ship. But whatever the reason, Rush is only a tool to be used in that scheme, that much is pretty clear. If she got him killed, I'd have to stop watching the show. I'm almost certain he's a decent person, deep down. I'm still trying to figure Wray out.

I also agree with this. :)

pipi
April 10th, 2010, 02:48 AM
Rush didn't have to tell anyone about the tracking device in his chest. So that wouldn't be the reason to do what he did. But he knew that the aliens would attack again as soon as the ship dropped out of FTL and Rush knows Young will rather fire at the ship than use the shields technique. That's the main reason, self preservation from an alient attack. The civilian muntiny thing was just convenient timing.

ckwongau
April 10th, 2010, 03:47 AM
He remind me of Dr Baltar from BSG .
Dr Baltar was acting in his self preservation sense. and almost everything did was to saft himself , no matter how many people he had endanger or hurt. But i can't blame Dr Baltar for most of his crime, so i can't blame Dr Rush as well.

jelgate
April 10th, 2010, 08:39 AM
But it was Wray's idea, so how is it that Rush manipulated the whole thing?

It was more both their idea and Wray doesn't know the whole. None of the civilians do. Well except Eli. I don't think so many of them would be hesitant to support Rush if they knew about the framing

xxxevilgrinxxx
April 10th, 2010, 08:39 AM
Rush by far is the most interested character on the show for the reason that we don't know what his true motives are, ever. But its odd how many people he can manipulate easy.people, especially people that are afraid, are amazingly easy to manipulate. Oddly enough, the smarter the person, the easier it is to do it.


Yeah, until the aliens arrive again, Wray and Scott have no idea how to lead the ship, and they all get killed. ;)now that's something that's interesting to me. Rush and Chloe both knew that the aliens would come back, and Rush not only knew that, but knew HOW they would. So, he gets rid of the military, as in the people that have the will and ability to fight back. And I think he pressed for "surrender" as well. So did Rush set it up specifically to surrender the ship to the aliens?


Rush used this as an excuse. He is dangerous. He thinks nothing of putting the crew in danger. He was willing to let the aliens follow them. There was a chance that the shield wouldn't hold, and the ship would blow up, killing them all.

Young was right about cutting the tracking device out of Rush. There was no other choice.I see a double meaning in Young;s regret at LEAVING Rush on the planet. In that he didn't kill him outright. Which still sounds like a sound option to me.


After the events of Justice and Young's final lines in Divided I highly doubt he would throw out of an airlock. Especially since no airlocks were available. As for self-defense I say Rush brings it on himself for his mantipulationYoung isn't likely to repeat the mistake, no. Rush can't be trusted, not with his behaviour.


But it was Wray's idea, so how is it that Rush manipulated the whole thing?Wray is one of those office intrigue artists that likes to get in on everything and stir stuff up but she's not likely to ever get her hands dirty. If Rush didn't act, I don't see her as ever doing anything on her own

garhkal
April 10th, 2010, 10:46 AM
First of all great episode, I really like this show.

Anyway, so Rush knows he has this device inside him, why doesn't HE suggest it get taken out of him-using the same methods that they ended up using. He then makes himself look better and possibly gets Young to trust him a bit. Again, Rush puts them all at risk, for what?

Maybe he did not trust having word he had this device in him having the effect that they would LET him just have it removed.. Maybe he felt if they all knew of it, they would suspect more skullduggery and lock him up?

Aurora24
April 10th, 2010, 09:12 PM
I think Rush was using Wray's plan to help himself, but I don't think he can be held solely responsible for what happened. Wray and some of the scientists were already apparently planning to seize control of the ship from the military, having Rush on their side just made it easier for them to take control. I think Wray would have eventually done exactly what she did whether or not Rush had return to Destiny. I can also understand Rush's point of view. Young left him on that planet, he was afraid he would try to get rid of him again because of the tracking device. I think he might have been concerned that if he told TJ about it and she couldn't remove it than he would have been thrown off the ship. I also think he wanted to place some limitations of Young's power, in order to protect himself and anyone else who didn't agree with how Young was running things. Although I disagree with how Rush, Wray, Chloe, and the scientists and civillians acted, I think that there should be a level of control over the military on the ship.

rsanchez
April 10th, 2010, 11:42 PM
I agree that if the mutiny had succeeded, Wray would have been the "official" leader. But, I think Rush had a much more significant role in this. Rush knew when the aliens would attack. I bet he planned the mutiny for precisely that time, to distract Young with an alien attack, and possibly give his side a better chance of victory. The mutiny ultimately failed, ironically, because of the aliens' previous attacks.

But if the mutiny had succeeded, Wray would be in charge, with Rush pulling all the strings. Rush could tell Wray what to do and threaten to stop cooperating or even leave the ship vulnerable to attack if Wray didn't play ball. Also, with Wray in charge Rush wouldn't have someone constantly looking over his shoulder and he would finally have the opportunity to really explore the destiny.

EllieVee
April 11th, 2010, 01:29 AM
Was I alone in thinking that, at the end of 'Space,' when Wray was talking to Rush about 'next time,' he looked...well, afraid? I mean, that makes sense even more knowing about the implant now. I'm not saying she dragged him kicking and screaming, but I think it'd be more fair to say that she manipulated him for her own goals. Though after this episode and the last, I don't dislike Wray anymore. But I wouldn't trust her by any means.

I think Rush is very scared of Young. The body language in the scene at the end of Space, brilliant stuff.

pipi
April 11th, 2010, 05:08 AM
I think Rush is very scared of Young. The body language in the scene at the end of Space, brilliant stuff.

Rush can't be scared. He's not afraid of death. He's hell bent on seeking ancient technology and probably the means of ascention like Daniel. Please don't turn him into white light, that would be so wrong!

Popcorn
April 11th, 2010, 05:15 AM
I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that Rush was just up to his old, self-serving tricks for the whole bit. I agree that he stepped up the schedule because of his own fears, but I can hardly blame him. Why would he risk letting TJ, who is not trained for the kind of operation that was needed and is also under Young's command, cut him open and poke around?
On the other hand, he once again put others at risk for his own safety. I can't condone that, but I do think he has shown that he isn't always selfish. He did save Chloe, and with no reason I could believe other than to simply save her from the tortures he'd been put through.
As far as his plan for making the aliens go away, that was never going to work. It showed Rush in a vulnurable moment, where he was unwilling to face cold logic when it lead him to a result that endangered his life. He did the opposite by saving Young and Scott from vaporization. I like this new version of him, bouncing between what he used to be and (hopefully, now that he cares about at least one person on that ship and she can influence him) what he will become.

The reason rush didn't tell them about the tracker wasn't because he didn't trust TJ to cut it out.. Rush is smart he knows they would of thought to use the stones to get someone to cut it out hell I am sure he already thought of that but didn't want to do it cause he WANTED the ships to show up and attack destiny not quite sure why yet but I know he wanted the ships to show up.

As far as him 'changing' to save chloe lol no, He saved chloe again for another purpose that we don't know of yet. He says the aliens want Destiny and its secrets they been trying to get on board or whatever but I don't believe that they have had 3 ships attached to the haul already one monitored it which we say leave in the first episode or so, Then you have another one which they blew off thinking it was tracking them. Then u had the one which attached cut a hole (Which the other 2 didn't that we have yet to see) and take a specific person and leave you think if they wanted the ship they wouldn't take someone and just leave once they attached to the haul.

Plus I am not buying the whole I don't remember anything about what they did to me crap rush is giving.. He knew they put a tracker in him , He knew what the mind devices were. Hell I would go so far as the say rush planned chloe getting captured and somehow is working with the aliens.

Lahela
April 11th, 2010, 05:27 AM
Rush can't be scared. He's not afraid of death. He's hell bent on seeking ancient technology and probably the means of ascention like Daniel. Please don't turn him into white light, that would be so wrong!

Seriously? You don't think he looked scared when Young was aiming a gun at his head? Wow.

jelgate
April 11th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Rush can't be scared. He's not afraid of death. He's hell bent on seeking ancient technology and probably the means of ascention like Daniel. Please don't turn him into white light, that would be so wrong!

That is insane. Of course he is scarad of death. Probably because of that pursuit of Ancient technology aka his obessession

garhkal
April 11th, 2010, 03:06 PM
Plus I am not buying the whole I don't remember anything about what they did to me crap rush is giving.. He knew they put a tracker in him , He knew what the mind devices were. Hell I would go so far as the say rush planned chloe getting captured and somehow is working with the aliens.

I doubt that very much. BUT stranger things have happened.

pipi
April 11th, 2010, 08:33 PM
Seriously? You don't think he looked scared when Young was aiming a gun at his head? Wow.

I was actually hoping that in that instance Rush should have said something along the lines of "If you kill me now, the lockout code will die with me and you'll never regain control of the ship". That would have pissed Young off, hell yeah. So no, I don't think he was shaking at the knees, he had a bargaining chip.

Aurora24
April 11th, 2010, 08:43 PM
I don't think Rush is working with the aliens, but I agree that he might not have shared everything he learned with Young. It makes sense, he doesn't trust Young, and if he had that information it would make him to valuable to be killed or abandoned. It would be the perfect argument to use if he finds himself in a similar situation. I don't think Young would try to do something like that again, if only because he couldn't live with the guilt the first time round, but Rush probably still feels that his life may be in danger. Its good to have some type of insurance, and he knows that his knowledge of Ancient technology isn't enough.

As for Chloe, although saving her life made her an ally, and possibly a friend I don't think that's why he saved her. My argument is this, if Rush saved her for the sole purpose of using her then he wasted some potential opportunities to do so. Chloe is (or was, depending on whether or not Scott can forgive her) Scott's girlfriend, so Rush could have used her by convincing her to use her influence over Scott to gain so control over the military. Maybe not a lot of control, but Scott is second in command. By asking for Chloe to support him in his attempt to end military control over the ship he ruined any chances of that happening. As for Chloe protecting Rush by not telling anyone about the tracking device, I don't think Rush would have needed to manipulate her. Chloe is a caring and compassionate person, so she would have wanted to protect Rush, because he saved her life, and because she figures he's the only one who can protect her and the rest of the crew from the aliens (and like Rush, she was probably concerned about what Young would do if he found out).

FallenAngelII
April 11th, 2010, 11:47 PM
now that's something that's interesting to me. Rush and Chloe both knew that the aliens would come back, and Rush not only knew that, but knew HOW they would. So, he gets rid of the military, as in the people that have the will and ability to fight back. And I think he pressed for "surrender" as well. So did Rush set it up specifically to surrender the ship to the aliens?
Wow, the paranoia of the "pro-militants" know no bounds. Why would Rush ever surrender the ship to the aliens? He even thought of the best way for the Destiny to survive: Pump all power to the shields. And it worked.