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Madwelshboy
April 1st, 2010, 09:51 AM
LUCIFER (MARK PELLEGRINO, “LOST”) RETURNS — Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are kidnapped by a group of gods, including Kali (guest star Rekha Sharma), Ganesh (guest star Keith Blackman Dallas) and Bladur (guest star Adam Croasdell) and held hostage in a small hotel. The gods want to use Sam and Dean as bargaining chips to stop the Apocalypse, but Gabriel (guest star Richard Speight, Jr.) shows up and warns them that if Lucifer finds them he will kill them all. Unfortunately, one of the gods turns on the rest and Lucifer appears. Rick Bota directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb & Daniel Loflin with story by David Reed

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the fifth man
April 22nd, 2010, 06:37 PM
This was way better than I even thought it would be.:) I am sad Gabriel fell in the end, but I kind of saw it coming.:( At least he finally chose a side, and tried to get involved. Things are really coming to a head now, with only 3 episodes left in the season.

starg8fans
April 22nd, 2010, 09:05 PM
WOW - that was Spn at its best. THANK YOU writers for the comic relief from all the darkness and depression of the recent episodes. It was great to see Dean back to his old cockiness, and to see him and Sam squabbling and bouncing off each other as they used to.

Kali was awesome. And her speech about the self-centered Western religions and that the old Gods were there first - excellent. I was worried there for a moment that they would have her duped about Gabriel's true identity, that would have been hard to swallow. But again, they fixed that PDQ.

LOVED that the trickster was also Loki. I was a bit disappointed that he turned out to be Gabriel, I had a kinda hoped he would be the Norse troublemaker. And he is. And yay for calling Lucifer on his whole 'wronged son' spiel. Too bad he had to bite the bullet in the end. But of course he can't ice the devil just now, there are three more episodes to go. Great way to go out in the end with that video, though. Only Spn can deliver something as pivotal and epic as his message in such a comical/dirty way.

So now we've seen Lucifer in all his g(l)ory. Wonderful performance by Mark Pellegrino. This is the first role I see him in, and he sure delivers all the facets of this complicated character. Only, what was up with his make-up in the scene at the reception? It looked a little - sloppy to me.

Again, could have done without the graphic depictions of the slaughter fest, but that's just me. OH, and the way Pestilence slimed all over that shop - eeeewwwww.... And that unmotivated clip with the Ghostfacers was almost as bad. I mean, WTF? Where did that come from? If I never have to see those d**kheads again it'll still be too soon. :S

So, the four Horseman rings. I knew already from the spoilers that they would be the solution, but not the details. Anyway, I think they do a great job with the spoilers they do give out. I mean, all the teasers and sneak peeks I saw were pretty much covered in the first ten minutes, everything after that was unanticipated. I didn't quite get what Dean said about Famine's ring, though. We did not see them take it - but I assume they must have?

Heaven
April 23rd, 2010, 04:21 AM
nooooooooo they did not just do that!!!!!

God better bring Gabriel back

other than that, awesome episode all the way except I'd expected an archangel showdown would be bigger..
I mean whats that crap about the fight between Michael and Lucifer roasting half the planet?

oh and the rings are a disappointment, kind of a deus ex machina

starg8fans
April 23rd, 2010, 05:03 AM
I guess it was less of a fight and more of an execution in this case. Michael and Lucifer are the most powerful archangels, so they would probably not fight with blades but more destructive weapons.

As for the rings, I mean just about anything they'll come up with to stop this will be in some way deus ex machina. What else is there to stop the Apocalypse? I'm just glad it was something we've encountered before, and it makes sense to me that the four Horsemen were in some way involved with Lucifer's 'cage'. Once he broke out they'd be let loose as well. Maybe their power was channeled into making it strong enough to withstand Lucifer, and their power seems to come from the rings.

One other thing I just noticed - I guess Dean really has bounced back from his depressed state and isn't just pretending. At least he's joyfully hungry again, both for food and women, and the lack of both was used earlier in the season to show something was wrong with him.

Heaven
April 23rd, 2010, 05:34 AM
well we've been hearing all season about the ultimate smackdown and destiny
it will be really disappointing if Michael and Lucifer never even take their vessels

starg8fans
April 23rd, 2010, 05:47 AM
True, but there's always been the toss up between destiny vs. free will. For me, if Dean and Sam ended up as vessels it would mean that everything is in fact preordained by destiny and free will is just an illusion. Not sure that I want that to be the message of this season. Even though I'd love to see Jensen and Jared play off each other as Lucifer and Michael, I'm not really keen to see the 'final mega battle'. It's gonna be a lot of special effects, nothing more. And that's not really why I watch this show.

iolanda
April 23rd, 2010, 08:22 AM
They are really preparing for what I suggested will be the way to end it: toss Lucifer back in his cell and get back to business. And there are still 3 episodes to go, which makes me wonder if this will really be the solution.
Wouldn't it be a little bit to evident to tell us now how it will work out in the end? I expect some trip hazards!

Speaking of evident: this episode wasn't what I expected at all. Hello storytelling? This one wasn't from the textbook. It started like it was, but then?

"Let it be tomato soup, let it be tomato soup, let it be tomato soup!" <- What Dean said!

I really could have done this without the head on the plate, but at least the other killings were done in the good old "splash the blood on the wall"-way.

Concerning killing: it is really possible to kill real gods? Not semi gods like the pagan ones, but the real big established ones? Would that make "our" god killable?

That story had some really unexpected turns. Its a little bit sad that the Trickster/ Gabriel/ Loki was killed, but I still have the feeling that we haven't seen the last of him. But if this was really final, he at least went with a bang. Great idea with that porn scene in the end!

I am happy that Dean is back on the track.

Back to story- telling: I loved it how they introduced all the gods, and I loved the name tags. Just for us, right? They should know each other ;)

I'll write more after a re-watch!

LoneStar1836
April 23rd, 2010, 09:24 AM
OH, and the way Pestilence slimed all over that shop - eeeewwwww.... And that unmotivated clip with the Ghostfacers was almost as bad. I mean, WTF? Where did that come from? If I never have to see those d**kheads again it'll still be too soon. :SI know they are doing the webseries, but for a couple of seconds there I thought they were going to be in the actual episode. :eek:



As for the rings, I mean just about anything they'll come up with to stop this will be in some way deus ex machina. What else is there to stop the Apocalypse? I'm just glad it was something we've encountered before, and it makes sense to me that the four Horsemen were in some way involved with Lucifer's 'cage'. Once he broke out they'd be let loose as well. Maybe their power was channeled into making it strong enough to withstand Lucifer, and their power seems to come from the rings.Agreed. I could see this coming (caging him back up), but they are doing it in a way that works for me.

Hard to believe we are already down to just 3 eps left.

Aerilon
April 23rd, 2010, 09:53 AM
I liked the episode, shame that Gabriel had to die, but saw that coming (cause he wasn't the one to kill Lucifer). That though, I think does shine some light on this 'fate' thing. By definition, if fate was to play out exactly as it was stated, Gabriel wouldn't have even tried to kill Lucifer, cause he would have known that Michael and Lucifer had to fight it out between themselves, so why did he even attempt it? Something tells me he's been telling a few white lies.

It is also interesting to see how they portray other Gods. Khali said that 'they' were here first, before the Angels. Does this mean that God created the Pagan Gods before he created the Angels? If not, then the Pagan Gods would have existed first, so by default, they owned the Earth, and created people, yet we know that God was in fact the one who did such.

In addition, unless I am mistaken, an impression I got here is that the Pagan God's also believe in a superior God too.. No?

starg8fans
April 23rd, 2010, 10:22 AM
I know they are doing the webseries, but for a couple of seconds there I thought they were going to be in the actual episode. :eek:

Agreed. I could see this coming (caging him back up), but they are doing it in a way that works for me.

Hard to believe we are already down to just 3 eps left.

Yeah - it's gonna be another long, lonely summer after them.


I liked the episode, shame that Gabriel had to die, but saw that coming (cause he wasn't the one to kill Lucifer). That though, I think does shine some light on this 'fate' thing. By definition, if fate was to play out exactly as it was stated, Gabriel wouldn't have even tried to kill Lucifer, cause he would have known that Michael and Lucifer had to fight it out between themselves, so why did he even attempt it? Something tells me he's been telling a few white lies.

Unless Gabriel knew it was his destiny to die trying. Oh rats, this is all so complicated. But I'm sure he's been telling 'white lies', he is the Trickster after all, it's in his blood.


It is also interesting to see how they portray other Gods. Khali said that 'they' were here first, before the Angels. Does this mean that God created the Pagan Gods before he created the Angels? If not, then the Pagan Gods would have existed first, so by default, they owned the Earth, and created people, yet we know that God was in fact the one who did such.

In addition, unless I am mistaken, an impression I got here is that the Pagan God's also believe in a superior God too.. No?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know 'Pagan' gods refer to non-monotheistic religions. And all of those - be it Norse, Roman, or Hindu - have one superior God who is above all others, and I guess Kali was referring to that. For her, Brahma is probably on the same footing as our God is to us, or Zeus was to the Romans.

the fifth man
April 23rd, 2010, 05:43 PM
I know they are doing the webseries, but for a couple of seconds there I thought they were going to be in the actual episode. :eek:


Agreed. I could see this coming (caging him back up), but they are doing it in a way that works for me.

Hard to believe we are already down to just 3 eps left.

I am trying very hard not to think about that fact.

Nadji
April 23rd, 2010, 11:17 PM
Bit of a poor representation of other religions, the major omissions being Ancient Egyptian, Mayan, Celtic and a substantial Hellenistic/Greek/Roman god (apparently Hermes/Mercury was there).

starg8fans
April 24th, 2010, 12:42 AM
Well, there were three other god sitting at that table (one woman and two men), we just never got a peek at their name tags. But you're right, there was no need for Odin to be there, since Baldur represented the Norse Gods. That should have been someone from the religions you mentioned.

iolanda
April 25th, 2010, 07:04 AM
Well, there were three other god sitting at that table (one woman and two men), we just never got a peek at their name tags. But you're right, there was no need for Odin to be there, since Baldur represented the Norse Gods. That should have been someone from the religions you mentioned.

There were also two Indian gods. Maybe they all came in pairs?

LtColCarter
April 26th, 2010, 07:14 AM
Very good episode! I really enjoyed it!

LizzieAnne
April 26th, 2010, 10:43 AM
What a great ep!

OK fangirl bit out of the way first........wet guys in the first scene... loved their hair like that....especially Sam's :P

I loved the addition of the gods but I don't think Kripke chose those particular gods for any other reason than that they fitted into the story...plus they appealed to his wicked sense of humour.
Kali. the destroyer - it's interesting that she left with the boys.....I wonder if she'll be working them now
Baldur - love. Because Lucifer killed him..a good reason for Kali to join forces with the boys.
Zao Chen the kitchen god...he sure did love preparing the food.
Ganesh - success.
Odin - war
Samedi - voodoo
Mercury - the messenger. It seemed only fitting that he should be the one to call Lucifer...and then get his just desserts.. :P

Loved the creepy hotel and Dean's line in the kitchen about the soup...and their expressions when they see the eyeballs. You wouldn't think they could be freaked or disgusted by anything any more would you? :lol:

I always love Lucifer's scenes because Mark is so wonderful but in this he was awesome... powerful and angry as he took on all the gods and then when he killed Gabriel, he looked genuinely upset.

Loved the shot of Gabriel and his wings as he lay dead on the floor but it was heartbreaking to see him die especially as he chose to side with Sam and Dean and humanity in the end.

Ah yes... the elephant in the room.....:P

The final scenes with Pestilence were gross....snot whump is so not nice. :S:D

Great licence plate he has though.. SIKN TRD (Sick and Tired)

the fifth man
April 26th, 2010, 06:28 PM
I'll tell you this, Pestilence and Death should be very concerned about the Winchesters. They are on a mission now.

LtColCarter
April 27th, 2010, 12:13 PM
I'll tell you this, Pestilence and Death should be very concerned about the Winchesters. They are on a mission now.

I agree...When Sam & Dean set out on a mission...there's some serious ass kickin' goin' on! ;)

Crichiel
April 29th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Sorry, I never got around to posting my views on this one. Little late now as you guys discussed all the points I was going to bring up.

I loved the episode, the only difference between me and most of you seems to be that I was NOT looking forward to this episode suddenly bringing in other world religions. I'm pretty cynical by nature (and forgive me, I know it's unpopular, but I am also a right-wing conservative :eek:), so when I heard they were going to bring in all these other gods, no offence, but my reaction was honestly, "How PC. And how original...modern Western world; bad! Rest of the world; so open and enlightened. :rolleyes:" But mostly, the timing of it bothered me. NOW? When we are this close to the end you are going to bring in a whole slew of other religious beliefs?! I don't care which religion you base your story arc on, but you've been going in this direction for years now. Can we finish up this apocalypse first?

But as usual, my fears were unfounded. Kripke and Co. did a great job using these other deities to advance the storyline without undercutting the Judeo-Christian apocalypse they've been setting up for the past couple years. :)

Couple other brief notes. I could not love Mark Pelligrino any better as Lucifer. My friend follows Lost as closely as I do and has only seen his work there, but the next time she visits, I HAVE to show her (the least gory parts of) his scenes in this episode. It is simply astounding how he can play the equivalent of God in one show and, just as convincingly, the Devil in another....during the same year!

Gabriel. I hate it when they have a grand entrance for a character, but ruin it by putting the actor's name in the credits. Takes the fun out of it. But even knowing who Richard Speight, Jr. is, and even though I read spoilers on this episode....somehow I TOTALLY missed that he was going to be in this! :o I re-watched and...there it is, first guest star listed....and somehow I totally zoned out and missed it. That was such a cool surprise for me! :):):)

flameling
April 29th, 2010, 01:15 PM
I like many others saw Gabriels death coming but i thought it was a great scene. I like the bird eye's view at the end, almost as if a higher being was watching over them. I'm kind of curious, who else thinks that God might now intervene because of what his children have done to each other. We had indication when Lilith was supposed to die but none for Gabriel which makes me think he wasn't supposed to die.