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GateWorld
November 7th, 2004, 06:26 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/116.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/116.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>THE BROTHERHOOD</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 116</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The team searches for a valuable Zero Point Module rumored to be hidden on the planet Dagan -- but their new allies have motives of their own.

<B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/116.shtml">Visit the Episode Guide >></A></B></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2005, 06:34 PM
Yep, a nice pretty official one will be forthcoming, but, in the mean time, please use this one to discuss the recent episode The Brotherhood

Teal'c
January 3rd, 2005, 06:56 PM
It aired already? Damn, I meant to go to bed before it finished, now I'll be up all night! :P

TOA
January 3rd, 2005, 06:59 PM
1x16 - The Brotherhood

Mini - Summery:

Once upon a time there was a priesthood of 15 brothers. They were given a great gift by their gods (aka a zpm from the Ancients). The brotherhood was wiped out during a previous wraith culling and the location of the zpm was lost.

The episode is basically Shep and the gangs attempt to locate the zpm. Along the way the (god I hope the wraith kill them soon, I hate these guys) Genii get involved. We learn that the psycho genii sergeant from 1x10-11(The Eye and The Storm) is still alive, and he leads some rebellious genii to get the zpm.

Along the way there is the typical Genii/Atlantean bickering etc and as usual the Atlanteans win (cause the Genii suck), however the big twist is...

In the end it turns out the woman who has been flirting with Rodney the entire episode is actually the new head priest of the brotherhood, she then betrays the shep gang and steals back the zpm. She states it will be placed back in hiding onto another world.

During this episode we also learn the Wraith have sent a scout ship towards Atlantis.

The episode ends when we learn (drum roll please): Three wraith hive vessles are on a heading towards Atlantis and they will arrive within 2 weeks (or in Canada time 3 weeks).

The moral of the episode:

1)The Genii really do suck, and need to be written out. I mean come on, inleast the Tollan were interesting, the Genii just suck.

2) Wraith darts should not be allowed close enough to scan Atlantis

3) Oh in case you missed it - I think the Atlanteans need to direct the wraith directly to the Genii homeworld. Really.... Then we wouldnt have to sit through any more Genii episodes... I mean they are like little annoying mosquitos argghhh ENOUGH already!!

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:03 PM
Well, this is what happened:

Flashback 10,000 years ago on this planet... These two old guys are talking about hiding something (a ZPM) and saying that if the Brotherhood falls, no one will know where it is. Meanwhile, you can hear a bunch of Wraith darts going around their big city. They go outside, get beamed up.

Onto now, Rodney, John, Aiden, and Teyla are on the planet which looks really beat up. They're trying to find a ZPM because they know it's there somewhere because it's one of the addresses that the other Weir gave to them in Before I Sleep.

So on stuff happens (my dad was on the phone with my aunty, didn't really hear what was happening).

They have these three little stones that are like a pieces of a puzzle. Rodney comes up with a search grid, they split up (Rodney, Elena [local], and some other local [didn't catch her name] all go together). John, Teyla and Ford go in another team.

Each team finds stones, and now they have eight.

Meanwhile on Atlantis, some guy screwed something up and Zelanka is trying to fix it, the guy accidently does something, turns out he activated these 'deep space censors'.

Meanwhile somewhere else, Koyla (sp?) is around doing some training with some other Genii, they know about what Sheppard and the gang are doing, plan to get ZPM. They show up on the planet and follow the gang.

Rodney and the gang can't find the 9th (and final) stone, they instead find some underground cavern which has a little pedastool for putting the stones on, they're missing the middle one. They figure that the symbols on them line-up to be a gate address to where the ninth one is located.

Ford, being left outside to guard, gets darted and a little beat up by Koyla and his gang. Koyla yells threats down to the team, Rodney offers to help them find the 9th stone, Koyla tells the others to stay down in the cavern. Rodney and Elena go up to find it.

Meanwhile on Atlantis, Zelenka finds out that there's a Wraith dart on it's way over to Atlantis. Will be there in about 27 minutes. Big 'oh crap' look from Weir.

Rodney and Koyla and everyone try to dial the gate, get no where. Elena comes up with an idea that it's not actually a gate address, but kind of a map. They go back to the temple where they were before, notice symbols on the outside of the map, line 'em up, have a location.

Rodney figures out that the 9th stone isn't in that location, but behind the map. He finds it, they go back to the cavern where John and Teyla and Ford try to plan escape. Teyla has a knife, Ford has some flash grenades.

Meanwhile on Atlantis, they're deploying puddle-jumpers with Beckett getting to fly one of them. "I'm a doctor, not a pilot!" They're up and away.

The Wraith dart shows up, shoots down a puddle-jumper (not the Beckett one), scans the city, the other two jumpers follow it, the dart self-destructs.

Rodney and Elena and Koyla and all are back down in the cavern. Rodney puts the things on there, was explaining something to Koyla, Koyla basically tells him to stop stalling, some Genii guy puts in the last stone, puts his hands in the little 'hand panels', and dies.

Rodney and John try to arrange the stones differently, John realizes that since it's the Brotherhood of the 15, that you gotta arrange the number stones so all sides equal 15, he puts his hands down on there, the ZPM pops out of the wall thingy.

Ford sets off the flash grenades, Teyla starts stabbing Genii, they take control, Koyla is sitting and not happy, Rodney complains about his hearing and eyes (funny :P).

Koyla says that John should just shoot him now, John says he's right, but doesn't, they go off into the sunset, Elena gets her homies to get the ZPM from them because they started their own 'New Brotherhood' and they need to hide it again, Rodney is hurt (because Elena had a crush on him that John and the gang had to point out to him).

They go back to Atlantis empty handed, Weir explains to them what happend while they were gone, Zelenka figures that the Wraith dart sent back information to a ship (no really?), he figures out where, figures out there are 3 Wraith hive ships on there way here, will be here in 2 weeks.

'Oh crap' looks all around.

I really enjoyed that episode :D

Ha! Mine isn't a mini-summary! My summary rocks! :P

Taonas
January 3rd, 2005, 07:04 PM
This episode rocked!!!!!!! Getting better and better these episodes are!

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:08 PM
This episode rocked!!!!!!! Getting better and better these episodes are!
I don't know why it rocked, but it did!

It was so simple and... cool. :D :D

I really like the Genii.

When Koyla showed up on the planet with his homies doing the big walk in the forest I said: "Oh yeah, no one is gonna notice him."

And my mom started humming the Darth Vader music :P

That guy that accidently activated the 'deep space censors' was really cute in my opinion :P

TOA
January 3rd, 2005, 07:09 PM
I really enjoyed that episode :D

Ha! Mine isn't a mini-summary! My summary rocks! :P


Yes but yours lacks all the anti Genii commentary mine does, and really thats the important thing :D

Actually the episode wasnt bad, I think im just Genii'd out. TPTB are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with the Genii as a threat. Its just that this season has had WAY too many episodes with them and not nearly enough episodes with the Ancients & Wraith.

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:11 PM
Yes but yours lacks all the anti Genii commentary mine does, and really thats the important thing :D

Actually the episode wasnt bad, I think im just Genii'd out. TPTB are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with the Genii as a threat. Its just that this season has had WAY too many episodes with them and not nearly enough episodes with the Ancients & Wraith.
Aww... I like the Genii! They're cool!

Koyla rocks! :P

They've been in 4 episodes out of 16...

Now in SG-1 I'm getting sick of the Trust and NID. They're annoying me.

My hands are really cold from typing all that. I was typing really fast here. I ran downstairs after it was over, got the thing to stop recording to the computer, got to the forums, and started typing while it was still fresh in my mind.

Taonas
January 3rd, 2005, 07:11 PM
I don't know why it rocked, but it did!

It was so simple and... cool. :D :D

I really like the Genii.

When Koyla showed up on the planet with his homies doing the big walk in the forest I said: "Oh yeah, no one is gonna notice him."

And my mom started humming the Darth Vader music :P
I agree with the simple coolness... For some odd reason, I thought I was watching Idiana Jones :P

The vader thing works :p

TOA
January 3rd, 2005, 07:15 PM
Now in SG-1 I'm getting sick of the Trust and NID. They're annoying me.

Now that we agree on :)

Bring back the Nox!!! (I miss them....)

I gotta say that while the next couple of episodes dont look too promising (you never know though "letters" looks like it might be interesting). The last two (The Siege) look like they are gonna ROCK!!!

Now if they could just get the Ancient from Sanctuary as a regular.....

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:17 PM
This episode did totally rock. Rodney was just so... GLAAAAH *dies*. Hehe.

Something tells me the season finale two parter is gonna kick so much ass!

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:17 PM
Now that we agree on :)

Bring back the Nox!!! (I miss them....)

I gotta say that while the next couple of episodes dont look too promising (you never know though "letters" looks like it might be interesting). The last two (The Siege) look like they are gonna ROCK!!!

Now if they could just get the Ancient from Sanctuary as a regular.....
I like the Nox, but they aren't as great as other races and characters that we've met over the years...

Isn't Letters From Pegasus supposed to be a clip episode or something?

The Gift is supposed to be about Teyla and learning more about her 'gift' of being able to sense the Wraith.

I SO can't wait for The Siege!

*dances*

Gonna be awesome! :D :D

Also, I forgot to mention to add:

I didn't like the episode Sanctuary. The only episode of this show so far that I didn't like. I didn't really see the whole thing of the Ancient having the hots for John the only reason to come to Atlantis an interesting thing. Blah, boring and quite silly (but not in a good way).

Taonas
January 3rd, 2005, 07:17 PM
Now that we agree on :)

Bring back the Nox!!! (I miss them....)

I gotta say that while the next couple of episodes dont look too promising (you never know though "letters" looks like it might be interesting). The last two (The Siege) look like they are gonna ROCK!!!

Now if they could just get the Ancient from Sanctuary as a regular.....

"The Siege" will most likely, hell it WILL beat out "Lost City" as my favourite season finale!

From the action we saw in this episode... muahahah :D

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:19 PM
This episode did totally rock. Rodney was just so... GLAAAAH *dies*. Hehe.

Something tells me the season finale two parter is gonna kick so much ass!
Oh yeah, most definately!

Rodney rocks, more and more. I love how he was so serious about finding the ZPM at the beginning while John, Teyla, and Ford were all joking around. He's awesome :P

The last episodes are gonna rock just like the other episodes! :D

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:24 PM
Oh yeah, most definately!

Rodney rocks, more and more. I love how he was so serious about finding the ZPM at the beginning while John, Teyla, and Ford were all joking around. He's awesome :P

The last episodes are gonna rock just like the other episodes! :D

OMG THIS SHOW IS TEH ROXX0RZ.

TOA
January 3rd, 2005, 07:24 PM
"The Siege" will most likely, hell it WILL beat out "Lost City" as my favourite season finale!

From the action we saw in this episode... muahahah :D


I just wanna see some battles!!! None of this whimpy hand gun stuff!!! Bring out the big guns!!! Go Hive ships!!!

After seeing Sanctuary and the mini invasion in that ep I cant wait!!

Im just hoping they dont do a Farscape style cliffhanger (ie everyone is dead,dying or separated). The six month wait until next season will drive me nuts if thats the case. SG1 style cliff hangers are much better :) (ie 1 character dead/dying/separated, major plotline completed)

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:25 PM
OMG THIS SHOW IS TEH ROXX0RZ.
Hehehe, you're such a n00b, silly :P

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:25 PM
OMG THIS SHOW IS TEH ROXX0RZ.

Ok before anyone gets all mad, I don't normally type like a Sweet Valley High AOL user. Just when I'm really excited and stuff. :D

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:28 PM
Hehehe, you're such a n00b, silly :P

:P. You know what! I don't normally make NY resolutions, but I'll make this one: I WILL POST MORE ON THIS MAD FORM.

Taonas
January 3rd, 2005, 07:29 PM
Did anyone notice that the wraith dart looked different that the others?

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:29 PM
I just wanna see some battles!!! None of this whimpy hand gun stuff!!! Bring out the big guns!!! Go Hive ships!!!

After seeing Sanctuary and the mini invasion in that ep I cant wait!!

Im just hoping they dont do a Farscape style cliffhanger (ie everyone is dead,dying or separated). The six month wait until next season will drive me nuts if thats the case. SG1 style cliff hangers are much better :) (ie 1 character dead/dying/separated, major plotline completed)
Well, sometimes those cliffhangers when everyone dies or is dying are cool...

I really like the season 1 finale of Andromeda where everyone seems to be dead or dying or in grave trouble because they're getting attacked by the magog and Rommie is all evilish... *sigh*

One of the few good epsiodes of that show.

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:31 PM
Did anyone notice that the wraith dart looked different that the others?
It was probably modified to go longer distances.

Or maybe the scout darts look different...

Or maybe they got the new 2006 Wraith dart model in. :P

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:31 PM
Did anyone notice that the wraith dart looked different that the others?


Well, it was a scout, so maybe it was a Scout Dart or something...

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:34 PM
It was probably modified to go longer distances.

Or maybe the scout darts look different...

Or maybe they got the new 2006 Wraith dart model in. :P

US or European model?

Taonas
January 3rd, 2005, 07:34 PM
It was probably modified to go longer distances.

Or maybe the scout darts look different...

Or maybe they got the new 2006 Wraith dart model in. :P

2006 model eh? Special edition perhaps?

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:35 PM
European special edition! :P

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:36 PM
European special edition! :P
*image of light shining through clouds, pic of a Wraith faded in the background*
Voiceover guy: Tell me: What would Steve drive?

Taonas
January 3rd, 2005, 07:37 PM
European special edition! :P
"Come's fully equiped with your standard anti-ancient technology. Suck the life out of humans from the comfort of your dart"

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:39 PM
*image of light shining through clouds, pic of a Wraith faded in the background*
Voiceover guy: Tell me: What would Steve drive?
*falls over laughing*

Oh god that's hilarious!!!

"I think Steve would drive a Wraith dart 2006 special edition European model! If only he were around..." :P

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:41 PM
*falls over laughing*

Oh god that's hilarious!!!

"I think Steve would drive a Wraith dart 2006 special edition European model! If only he were around..." :P
Maybe that Dart WAS a European model. Would explain why it blew up. It was driving on the wrong side of the road.

AtlantisRising
January 3rd, 2005, 07:42 PM
Wow, After reading almost all the posts, what more can I say?

The episode was great. I agree with the simplisity(sp?) aspect. Well written, well acted and had a great twist. We also got to see Sheppards closeted mathmatics again and Rodney is always a fun character.

One of my favorite parts of this episode was when Sheppard devised that plan with the grenades.

I sooooo cant wait for the First Season DVD's
*drool*
:D

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:43 PM
OMG RODDERS DISAPPEARED!! NOOOO_

Ok he's there.

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:43 PM
Maybe that Dart WAS a European model. Would explain why it blew up. It was driving on the wrong side of the road.
HAHAHA! You killed your signature!

They were flying in Ancient space and they were confused. They drive on the other side of the air.

I think Michele here might be on to something :P

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:44 PM
Wow, After reading almost all the posts, what more can I say?

The episode was great. I agree with the simplisity(sp?) aspect. Well written, well acted and had a great twist. We also got to see Sheppards closeted mathmatics again and Rodney is always a fun character.

One of my favorite parts of this episode was when Sheppard devised that plan with the grenades.

I sooooo cant wait for the First Season DVD's
*drool*
:D
Oh yeah... DVDs...

*drools*

So worth to buy...

*sigh*

I wonder when they'll be coming out... October maybe? That's so far away :(

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:45 PM
Wow, After reading almost all the posts, what more can I say?

The episode was great. I agree with the simplisity(sp?) aspect. Well written, well acted and had a great twist. We also got to see Sheppards closeted mathmatics again and Rodney is always a fun character.

One of my favorite parts of this episode was when Sheppard devised that plan with the grenades.

I sooooo cant wait for the First Season DVD's
*drool*
:D
Sheppard also seemed really excited when it dawned on him. Aww. Cute. :D

queenselqet31
January 3rd, 2005, 07:45 PM
Oh yeah... DVDs...

*drools*

So worth to buy...

*sigh*

I wonder when they'll be coming out... October maybe? That's so far away :(
Yeah, probably the same time season 8 of SG-1. OMG TOO FAR AWAAAAAAAAAY.

MartoufMarty
January 3rd, 2005, 07:47 PM
Sheppard also seemed really excited when it dawned on him. Aww. Cute. :D
Oh yes, that was so cute...

I love how Rodney was all interested that John took the MENSA (is that right?) test and passed. So much he was forgetting about the ZPM and going back to Atlantis lol.

alz0rz
January 3rd, 2005, 10:34 PM
Hehe, as tempting as it is I managed to close my eyes down the summaries and down to this post box - I saw the word Genii though!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

And I also saw "action in this episode" :o

I'll be watching this tomorrow after I get home from school ;)

Just one question, when will the next NEW SGA/SG1 episode be airing (in the country that airs it first, Canada does SGA right?) ?

Letter from Pegasus & It's good to be king

Cant wait :D :o

Alpha17X
January 4th, 2005, 01:10 AM
And so once again the ancients are reffered to as "Lanteans" not Atlanteans "Lanteans"

Theres is with out a shadow of a doubt no "at" at the beginning of the word. they have been called "Lanteans" 3 times now in the show.

Positively Kanyon
January 4th, 2005, 02:16 AM
Another brilliant Atlantis episode... This show (in my opinion) has had a perfect season so far, not one bad episode. Definately building up to something big in 'The Siege' and Season 2... I CAN'T WAIT!!!

Hatcheter
January 4th, 2005, 02:21 AM
I don't know why it rocked, but it did!

It was so simple and... cool. :D :D

Really, that about sums it up. There were tons of entertaining little things going on. The way everything, even being held at gun point, is forgotten by McKay when he hears about Sheppard's MENSA test. Zelenka discovering all kinds of fun new things in the control room. Bates trying to pep-talk Beckett into defending the city.

I think it was the crueler twists that made the ep end strongly. Having a Jumper shot down before they even know what's going on, losing two more soldiers. Losing the ZPM to ignorance. And a final deadline (literally?) on when the Wraith will come.

Only four more episodes until the season is over? No!

somme
January 4th, 2005, 05:07 AM
That was a good episode. :)

How many PJ's do they actually have? Well one less now anyway. That was a real shock, for some reason I don't imagine them having that many, and for one to be destroyed so easily, it was kind of depressing.

keppiezbt
January 4th, 2005, 05:08 AM
so they didnt get the zpm!! that blows. well, i guess it just means we will have another episode trying to get that zpm now. but it would have been nice if they got it. :(

Wass
January 4th, 2005, 05:16 AM
Well, this is what happened:

Flashback 10,000 years ago on this planet... These two old guys are talking about hiding something (a ZPM) and saying that if the Brotherhood falls, no one will know where it is. Meanwhile, you can hear a bunch of Wraith darts going around their big city. They go outside, get beamed up.......................

Ha! Mine isn't a mini-summary! My summary rocks! :P

Thank you for very detailed summary I look forward to this episode.

veneticuss
January 4th, 2005, 05:38 AM
The episode was just fine. Uhm, well, at least we know where to get the next ZPM :)

TOA
January 4th, 2005, 06:30 AM
Just one question, when will the next NEW SGA/SG1 episode be airing (in the country that airs it first, Canada does SGA right?) ?

Letter from Pegasus & It's good to be king

Cant wait :D :o


As always Canada is airing its next new episode next Monday night at 8pm EST(TMn), 7PM Cent(MC). Itll be "Letters from pegasus".

The UK is airing "Its good to be king" in about 2 hours :)

AlphaBlu
January 4th, 2005, 07:01 AM
That episode was great. The Genii are a great badguy, and I'm glad TPTB decided to put them in. It'd get boring with the Wraith every week, especially when the Wraith are so uber. If we kept outwitting them every week we'd start to go "Why the hell did this guys beat the Ancients?"

The Genii we can atleast beat all the time and it seems right. Nothing about fighting the Genii has been far fetched. It's not like the 60-man Company came through in The Eye and Sheppard took them out as well. The Genii are awesome. Kolya is the man, and I hope we see him again.

And Markham is dead! And we lost a Jumper! AHHH! Things are getting heavy.

And it was another episode where we didn't win! And McKay got another fantastic line:

"Give me a knife." *silence from badguys* "You all have guns. Give me a knife."

BYE

MartoufMarty
January 4th, 2005, 07:23 AM
Thank you those who said thanks for the summary :P

somme - my sister (who was hanging around this thread last night and actually posting :P) told me that they had probably five puddlejumpers, now they have four.

And before anyone asks, 'why didn't they deploy all of them?'

Well, the answer would probably be that they couldn't find enough pilots. I mean, they had to get Beckett in to fly one of them lol.

Wass
January 4th, 2005, 07:26 AM
The UK is airing "Its good to be king" in about 2 hours :)

Actually it’s 4hr and 35min, it airs 20:00 tonight and currently it’s 15:25 here in UK

MartoufMarty
January 4th, 2005, 07:31 AM
Actually it’s 4hr and 35min, it airs 20:00 tonight and currently it’s 15:25 here in UK
Oooh... wait... Isn't that the episode with Maybourne and Wayne Brady?

... I'm not really looking forward to that episode really... Not as much as other episodes... It so cannot top The Brotherhood :P

Hey, wait, shouldn't this thread be renamed 'The Brotherhood (116)' by now?

Wass
January 4th, 2005, 07:42 AM
I think the mods forgot about it oh waith there to busy getting drunk :p.
What I'm not looking forward to is "Full alert" because I know nothing about it and it really doesn't look interesting.

aAnubiSs
January 4th, 2005, 08:04 AM
We now see that the Darts has been using their weapons at the kiddy setting, since a PJ took several hits in earlier episodes, but was destroyed with 1-2 shots now.

And they are both called Atlantean and Lantean, open your ears and you'll hear both.

MartoufMarty
January 4th, 2005, 08:16 AM
We now see that the Darts has been using their weapons at the kiddy setting, since a PJ took several hits in earlier episodes, but was destroyed with 1-2 shots now.

And they are both called Atlantean and Lantean, open your ears and you'll hear both.
They probably just got lazy half way through the episode and started calling them 'Lanteans' instead of 'Atlanteans' :P

veneticuss
January 4th, 2005, 08:40 AM
Well, anyway now they have got just two stable pilots + that doctor. :p
They should get new ones in season 2.

Plus they should find some more puddlejumpers, or it will be a miracle, if all 4 of those will be alright after 6 seasons. :)

Taonas
January 4th, 2005, 09:06 AM
We now see that the Darts has been using their weapons at the kiddy setting, since a PJ took several hits in earlier episodes, but was destroyed with 1-2 shots now.

And they are both called Atlantean and Lantean, open your ears and you'll hear both.

I don't think it was a normal dart. It's engine and weapon systems were probably upgraded so it could reach Atlantis, scan it, and have enough time to transmit it back. Oh, and destroy anything that get's in it's way.

veneticuss
January 4th, 2005, 10:10 AM
Hmmm, i was pretty sure that atlantis itself have had to have some kinds of rocket drones like PJ has. Mybe it just didnt activate because of leak of power?

MartoufMarty
January 4th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I don't think it was a normal dart. It's engine and weapon systems were probably upgraded so it could reach Atlantis, scan it, and have enough time to transmit it back. Oh, and destroy anything that get's in it's way.
Like I said:

2006 European model, special edition :P

njsutorius
January 4th, 2005, 10:27 AM
Very good episode in fact I’m going to watch it again in a few minutes.. I love how they have kept the wraith in every episode, but still have been able to have whole story sub plots. It was a very simple idea but was acted beautifully and realistically. MY ONE thing I didn't like is that Dr. Weir’s emotions are the same for every tragedy I mean 2 more of her people and a jumper just got blow to pieces and her reactions are so vague and fake. Sheppard did a much better job then her and is a much better actor. I mean think how mad Jack would get when he lost a man somewhere, his entire mood would change and you could easily feel what he was trying to convey. Besides that very good episode now we just need to beat the crap out of the Genni’s!! :D SGA > SG1 this season by far.

Shipperahoy
January 4th, 2005, 10:36 AM
It was a good episode. I really thought that they might actually get the ZPM because of all the rumors that they will find a way home this season but, alas, no dice. The MENSA bit was hilarious and I like that it was Sheppard who figured out the solution this time, it changed it up a bit. And I really like that they've made Sheppard really smart, not just a smartass. The Genii are quite the pain in the derriere and I hope they go away for awhile.

darman
January 4th, 2005, 10:49 AM
great episode....nice to see some images of the city from the interior of it finally...great effects as always..funniest thing for me was ford giving all that information about the flashbangs as if it's most powerful weapon ever created and then shepard's like "yeah it only stuns their eyes and ears for about 10 seconds".

DelTrax1
January 4th, 2005, 11:10 AM
Don't know if I liked the episode. I was kind of bummed and stoked at the same time.

aAnubiSs
January 4th, 2005, 11:22 AM
I don't think it was a normal dart. It's engine and weapon systems were probably upgraded so it could reach Atlantis, scan it, and have enough time to transmit it back. Oh, and destroy anything that get's in it's way.
Well the engine-upgrade would probably only be more fuel, and I doubt they upgraded the weapon systems. Because if that was the case they would've sent more then one Dart simply because it would give them better odds of getting the information they wanted.

Taonas
January 4th, 2005, 11:28 AM
Well the engine-upgrade would probably only be more fuel, and I doubt they upgraded the weapon systems. Because if that was the case they would've sent more then one Dart simply because it would give them better odds of getting the information they wanted.
Good point... Hm, wonder if the guys in the jumper were wearing red shirts?

DelTrax1
January 4th, 2005, 11:29 AM
I thought that we had better shields than that. If the Wraith are coming we better figure out how to build some ships fast.

keppiezbt
January 4th, 2005, 11:40 AM
they stated many times one on one, ancient ships cant be beat. so maybe the pilot didnt know how to use the systems and had the shields down. high suspect to me. the glowy rocket would have taken the dart out with one shot unless this pj was out. havent seen the episode so cant really say

aAnubiSs
January 4th, 2005, 11:42 AM
The PJs doesn't seem to have any real shields auto-activated. We saw some shield in The Defiant One, but we don't know if that is a ship-wide shield or just a shield to prevent a hostile takeover.

It seems foolish to give a ship two propulsion systems, weapons, cloak, DHD and NOT give it shields. They could fit everything else on it, so why shouldn't shields be there?

And remember, not all situations where shields are needed is because of enemy fire. Radiation or ships exploding for example.

The Ancients probably went for a missile weapon simply because they could always modify it to pass through any shields with some minor modifications that probably could be done on the fly be the one controlling them. An energy weapon is much more difficult to modify, and using them long range is very hard.

aeroe
January 4th, 2005, 01:14 PM
"Hey we found another ZPM!"
**yoink**

Ok, what's next week? Does anyone find this frustrating? It completely turned the whole episode sour for me. It reminds me of SG:1 where some sort of advanced alien technology is in their grasp, until it crashes, it disappears, aliens are too snooty to share it, etc.

I know, I know, eventually something solid will turn up, it has for SG:1. It's this wait and ZPM search mission that's getting quite irksome.

Teal'c
January 4th, 2005, 01:35 PM
Noooooooo!!! Markham died! MARKHAM!!! :(

I met Joseph May doesn't even know they killed his character. :( And a Puddle Jumper too, they lost a Jumper! I wish Beckett got to blow that ship out of the sky, rather than it blowing up itself :(

The rest of the episode was great. Loved seeing Koyla back, pity Colm Meany didn't make another appearence. And I was sure that Sora was going to be in the episode, so I was surprised when Erin Chambers wasn't in the credits.

SBN
January 4th, 2005, 01:48 PM
First, I think they are going to get that ZPM right back, only to have to use it all up defending Atlantis for when the Wraith attack. Just a threory with no proof (I have not read any spoilers as of yet so I could already be wrong).

Anyways, I thought by far this was the best ep yet. I loved the fact there was 2 storylines going on, one at Atlantis and the Wraith and the other finding the ZPM. More, there is acutal suspense for me. We know the reason the wraith was their was recon, and we have an idea that the wraith are going to be attacking soon. Question is, with the ZPM lost how are they going to defend Atlantis in just a few eps?

As for the PJ with no shields, I am holding judgement for now. Although I do see an error in how that PJ was so easily destroyed as opposed to what DelTrax1 said:

"I thought that we had better shields than that. If the Wraith are coming we better figure out how to build some ships fast."

I also was under the assumption that PJs could easily be defended against Wraith ships

Scoobing
January 4th, 2005, 04:01 PM
Could it be that the PJ's do have shields, but because they are not ancients, they cannot activate them as they don't know how. You know how alot of stuff on a PJ is controled by thinking it to happen. Sheppard could have done it, as he has a more natural ability, but the pilots could have just had the gene injection, and even if not, you heard Carson said he could barely fly the thing, never mind raise shields.

Major Tyler
January 4th, 2005, 09:57 PM
Noooooooo!!! Markham died! MARKHAM!!! :(I KNOW!! THAT FRELLING SUCKS!!!

Markham was one of the few characters that we were kinda-sorta-a-little-bit getting familiar with and they killed him! I'm aching for a few more guest stars (like Siler, Harriman, Dr. Lee, etc.) that we can learn to love, instead of seeing different people everyday. I'm pretty sure Grodin and Zelenka are safe since they add the international flavor, but I sure hope that they don't kill Bates or Stackhouse!

I was so shocked when Bates said Markham was dead. I'm really, really sad right now. http://img12.exs.cx/img12/9639/depressed8nx.png http://img12.exs.cx/img12/6311/cryface7dx.gif

IMForeman
January 4th, 2005, 10:46 PM
That guy that accidently activated the 'deep space censors' was really cute in my opinion :P

Yeah... they are gonna need some "Deep Space Censors" to protect them from Wraith dropping the Deep Space F-Bomb. ;) (Not trying to take the mickey on you, you just used the wrong "sensors".)

Anyway, this ep was very, very good. Atlantis has just been superb in it's first year. Solid stories, great characterization, outstanding effects. Very strong Freshman season. Although, I am starting to get some distinct feelings about a few things.

1.) Teyla is a lot more badd-ass than we know.
2.) I think Dr. Zelenka has a crush on Dr. Weir.
3.) If Earth ever manages to send a BC-303 to Atlantis, it's going to get creamed by the Wraith.

-IMF

Major Tyler
January 4th, 2005, 11:04 PM
3.) If Earth ever manages to send a BC-303 to Atlantis, it's going to get creamed by the Wraith.You never know what the 303s will do. In "Lost City"...they can take a horrendous amount of firepower from Anubis' mothership, Hataks, Al'kesh, and gliders coming from all directions,but in "Grace" and "Prometheus Unbound" they take a few hits and their shields are gone. It's almost like their shields have gotten worse, plus we haven't seen a single instance where the Prometheus' weapons have been effective on anything larger than an Al'kesh. I don't know what made General Jumper (the character, not the real man) think that the Prommie could take on one Hatak, much less three, in "Lost City."

IMForeman
January 4th, 2005, 11:15 PM
You never know what the 303s will do. In "Lost City"...they can take a horrendous amount of firepower from Anubis' mothership, Hataks, Al'kesh, and gliders coming from all directions,but in "Grace" and "Prometheus Unbound" they take a few hits and their shields are gone. It's almost like their shields have gotten worse, plus we haven't seen a single instance where the Prometheus' weapons have been effective on anything larger than an Al'kesh. I don't know what made General Jumper (the character, not the real man) think that the Prommie could take on one Hatak, much less three, in "Lost City."

Well, in Prometheus Unbound (spoilers for Prometheus Unbound and It's Good to Be King contained here The Prometheus was damaged before they managed to raise shields, so I'm thinking it's starting from a lower startpoint. I think the 303's could make a decent show of themselves against Hatak's really, in an all-out offensive situation... but during the Antarctic battle, the Prometheus pretty much just had to sit there and take it, to protect SG-1's Scout ship, and buy them time.

However, if we see in this ep that the Jumper was taken out by an overtaxed Wraith Scout (I'll call it a Jean-Louise), then it's fair to say that the Wraith darts are probably comparable to the Puddle Jumpers in their technology... and a Jumper can take out a Hatak with ease. If the Darts are that powerful, then the Hive ships are probably even more so. The BC-303 doesn't even seem to be quite at Hatak level yet, even with it's Asgard shields. It makes me wonder if even an Asgard ship would be a fair match against a Hive ship. They need to get that Satellite working.

-IMF

Major Tyler
January 4th, 2005, 11:18 PM
Well, in Prometheus Unbound (spoilers for Prometheus Unbound and It's Good to Be King contained hereI'll get back to you once I've seen "It's Good to be King." ;)

IMForeman
January 4th, 2005, 11:57 PM
I'll get back to you once I've seen "It's Good to be King." ;)

I haven't seen it yet either, but I know some info about it because someone posted a spoiler in a Topic Title.

-IMF

Easter Lily
January 5th, 2005, 12:07 AM
Yes but yours lacks all the anti Genii commentary mine does, and really thats the important thing :D

Actually the episode wasnt bad, I think im just Genii'd out. TPTB are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill with the Genii as a threat. Its just that this season has had WAY too many episodes with them and not nearly enough episodes with the Ancients & Wraith.

Just a fly in the ointment rather than a real threat... ;) I think TPTB are keeping all the good stuff close to the chest and will divvy them out a little at a time to keep us hooked.

Buzz Lightyear
January 5th, 2005, 01:18 AM
Oooh... wait... Isn't that the episode with Maybourne and Wayne Brady?

... I'm not really looking forward to that episode really... Not as much as other episodes... It so cannot top The Brotherhood :P


Actually, depending on your point of view, "It's Good To Be King" does top "The Brotherhood", at least in some respects.

MartoufMarty
January 5th, 2005, 07:19 AM
Actually, depending on your point of view, "It's Good To Be King" does top "The Brotherhood", at least in some respects.
Well, okay, I'm gonna watch it later and tell ya what I think in the thread for the episode (maybe)...

Liv
January 5th, 2005, 10:58 AM
I just love this show! :D

I'll start with the things that were a bit puzzling and/or felt a little out of place, since the rest of my post will probably be dedicated to as much praize as I can give without getting TOO exuberant about it. Probably. :p

- McKay's reaction to Sheppard, Teyla and Ford's laughing at the beginning felt a bit overdone in terms of the writing. I seriously doubt that they would need to be reminded of how important the ZPM is to them. They know this already.

- I also felt that Kolya didn't act as angry and as thirsty for revenge towards Sheppard and McKay as I would have expected, considering the events that took place in The Eye. Of course, he wasn't all heart either, considering he was more than willing to sacrifice the four of them, to get his hands on the ZPM. Still, I'm sure we've not seen the last of him, and that next time he shows up, he may skip over the banter all together and go directly for the kill. (No spoilers, just speculation on my part ;)).

So. The banter. Gotta love that. :D

Rodney's "My eyes? I need my eyes for seeing!" and the MENSA thing, in particular, was very amusing. Both JF and DH have such great comical timing together. They really are so much fun to watch.

Zelenka was a joy in this episode as well. His reactions to New Guy Whose Name I Don't Yet Know But Whom I Nonetheless Like, were pretty funny. Even funnier still, when knowing what those lines translates into (thanks veneticuss :)).

I liked the special effects in this one a lot, too. The murky skies and the Wraith ships in the opener; and the Wraith dart flying over the city. Pretty nice.

The fact that we lost Markham was surprising and made the threat all the more realistic. I'm of the firm belief that Atlantis is a much (well, relatively) darker show than SG-1 and I believe we've only scratched the surface on what kind of impact this darker element will have on the characters as the show moves into the next season. And the one after that. And so on.

I did not mind one bit that they didn't end up with the ZPM. The twist with Alina was a welcome one; and a nice detour from the predictable storyline of "everything will work out fine here, just you wait and see". I LIKE that things aren't all tied up neatly in a bow by episode's end.

Ugly Pig
January 5th, 2005, 11:12 AM
Say cheese!


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Brotherhood'

Another new Atlantis ep, another newly-located ZPM escaping the grasp of our heroes. Dang it, I thought they'd actually maybe get it this time. I think "ARGH!" is the appropriate word. Hopefully, they'll get to keep one soon... If this particular storyline gets dragged out much longer, I'll go nuts.

Kolya's back! That's cool because he's now the only established bad guy who has an actual history with almost every one of our heroes, so everyone has learned from previous experience what to expect. Or so they think. Or something. I dunno, I'm kinda tired from work.

Cowabunga! Some random notes...
- We lost a jumper! Oh, the outrage!
- If I heard and remember correctly, one of the guys killed by the Wraith scout was a minor recurring character.
- Three hive ships approaching Atlantis, eh? I guess this is where things start to build towards an end-of-season climax... (Actually, I suppose it really started last episode with the gate adresses for planets with ZPM's on them, which was carried over into this one.)
- Bates and Zelenka and Beckett! Recurring characters galore! Oh, and Kolya too, I guess...
- So what's happened to Zora? They mentioned her, but about the only thing we can conclude based on that piece of dialogue was that she hasn't been returned to the Genii.
- So Sheppard made it a point to let Kolya live. Wonder if that will come back to bite him in the ass? Or will Kolya feel even the least bit grateful? Or will Kolya be in too much hot water with his boss now for it to matter?
- I'm all for respecting the locals on the planets the teams visit and everything, but why they didn't get to keep the ZPM was just ridiculous. "Sorry, we're keeping it and hiding it from you, even though we have no use for it ourselves. Why? Just because."
- I fully expect the Czech folks around here to tell us what Zelenka was saying... ;)

Liv
January 5th, 2005, 11:24 AM
- I fully expect the Czech folks around here to tell us what Zelenka was saying... ;)
*pssst* Piggy, here's a link for you. ;)

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7375

Ugly Pig
January 5th, 2005, 11:35 AM
*pssst* Piggy, here's a link for you. ;)

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=7375
Thank you. That will teach me to post before reading after having been away for several days... :)

Mio
January 5th, 2005, 12:13 PM
Mmmm....wraith dart and puddle jumpers flying through the city.....


I can't believe they didn't get their ZPM. Oh well! You think the Ancients would leave some spare batteries IN Atlantis. Bah!

IMForeman
January 5th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Mmmm....wraith dart and puddle jumpers flying through the city.....


That scene really gives a better sense of the scale of Atlantis, doesn't it?

-IMF

MartoufMarty
January 5th, 2005, 12:17 PM
Mmmm....wraith dart and puddle jumpers flying through the city.....


I can't believe they didn't get their ZPM. Oh well! You think the Ancients would leave some spare batteries IN Atlantis. Bah!
Nah, the Ancients couldn't have done that.

It would have just made it far too easy if they did :P

joanne1138
January 5th, 2005, 01:26 PM
RECURRING CHARACTERS! Yeah! There is nothing I love more! For once I actually saw the episode on time instead of about a year later thanks to newly intstalled cable TV. And that bad word I am not allowed to say here... :p .

Bates is growing on me definitely. A lot of Zelenka! Him telling off that tech guy at the start for drinking stuff by the Ancients systems! Hee! And talking to Weir with the 'you are the loop' thing. That was very sweet. I think we got a glipse of Stackhouse too. The only bad thing on the minor character front is that MARKHAM DIED! Why did they have to kill him off, he was really cute! *end shallow moment*

Yes, I have spent more time talking about minor characters than the actual main story... Well, that was good too. Scratch that. It was REALLY good. I think this has become my favourite. The MENSA thing, very funny.

Only fault is that Kolya didn't die, dammit! As long as we don't see the Genii again for a long time, I don't mind, but so soon - my hatred of him is distracting me from the story.

This is possibly the biggest post I've ever written and some how I managed to avoid talking about the main characters completely. Huh.

Easter Lily
January 5th, 2005, 01:39 PM
Noooooooo!!! Markham died! MARKHAM!!! :(
I met Joseph May doesn't even know they killed his character. :( And a Puddle Jumper too, they lost a Jumper! I wish Beckett got to blow that ship out of the sky, rather than it blowing up itself :(


Markham was one of the few characters that we were kinda-sorta-a-little-bit getting familiar with and they killed him! I'm aching for a few more guest stars (like Siler, Harriman, Dr. Lee, etc.) that we can learn to love, instead of seeing different people everyday. I'm pretty sure Grodin and Zelenka are safe since they add the international flavor, but I sure hope that they don't kill Bates or Stackhouse!

I am still hoping against hope that he bailed out, fell into the drink and he's floating somewhere in the Atlantean ocean supported by a driftwood or swimming towards the mainland...
I believe in miracles... :D

elvital
January 5th, 2005, 01:58 PM
Rather nice episode - it got me really exciting for the final episodes :)
What surprised me most was Koyla - he didn't annoy me at all - which I wouldn't have expected because usually I dislike anything that has got to do anything with the Genii - well maybe it's just the Colm Meaney character (though I like Colm as an actor ;) )

And yeah, it was great to have all these minor characters back - loved the Czech quote :D

OfF3nSiV3
January 5th, 2005, 02:15 PM
And it was another episode where we didn't win! And McKay got another fantastic line:

"Give me a knife." *silence from badguys* "You all have guns. Give me a knife."


hehe i loved that part..and what about the hand gesture he did after he said that? awesome
and what the hell is MENSA?

Easter Lily
January 5th, 2005, 02:18 PM
and what the hell is MENSA?

An organization made up of extremely bright people.
http://www.mensa.org

IMForeman
January 5th, 2005, 02:19 PM
hehe i loved that part..and what about the hand gesture he did after he said that? awesome
and what the hell is MENSA?

Mensa International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International) is an organization for people with High IQ's.

-IMF

Hatcheter
January 5th, 2005, 03:37 PM
RECURRING CHARACTERS! Yeah!

Bates is growing on me definitely. A lot of Zelenka! Him telling off that tech guy at the start for drinking stuff by the Ancients systems! Hee! And talking to Weir with the 'you are the loop' thing. That was very sweet. I think we got a glipse of Stackhouse too. The only bad thing on the minor character front is that MARKHAM DIED!

I think all we missed ws Grodin. Stackhouse was standing behind Bates in the control center after the dogfight, but he didn't have any lines. Maybe they're trying to tame his "Minnesota" accent before he gets to speak again. :D

OfF3nSiV3
January 5th, 2005, 04:58 PM
Mensa International (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensa_International) is an organization for people with High IQ's.

-IMF

who..then i think they're looking for me

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 5th, 2005, 05:42 PM
Hehe. Can anybody say "Da Vinci Code"? I think this episode really had that kind of flavour (and if you haven't read that book you're really missing out). I loved the whole treasure hunt thing :) It really was a quest for the Holy Grail :D
McKay was hilarious, as usual. I liked the fact that it ran in parallel with a whole other plot going on on Atlantis too. And of course :D Carson piloting Jumper 2. :D hehe "I'm a doctor not a fighter pilot!". And also, Sheppard showing impressive mathematical skills (although...I could have figured that one out by myself...we used to do that stuff in class when I was a kid).
It really was a good episode.

prion
January 5th, 2005, 08:45 PM
Well, I think poor Markham is toast, fish food, etc. He's a goner unless he beamed out, which they didn't do, and the only other beaming would be to the Wraith dart, and well, I'd rather get blown up!

On the other hand, Zelenka is alive, so is Stackhouse, two of my favorite supporting characters. But sigh... but somebody will eventually die, as long as it's not any of our main and main supporting folk!

Good episode otherwise.

Major Tyler
January 6th, 2005, 12:13 AM
I've started a "Sgt. Markham Mourning/Appreciation Thread" if anyone cares to post on it. Just click on the picture of Sgt. Markham below for the link...

http://img24.exs.cx/img24/6020/deadmarkham5bd.gif (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=261567#post261567)

ShadowMaat
January 6th, 2005, 04:40 AM
I didn't see it as being remotely Da Vinci Code-like. Probably because it's such a recent phenomenon and the puzzle-solving thing goes way, way back. ;)

Does anyone know the name of the Coffee Guy at the beginning? He was funny, but he also looked really familiar. As soon as I saw him I thought, "Hey! I KNOW him!" Can't place him, though.

The Zelenka stuff was great. The Czech gripe and the "You are the loop" thing are both classics. Think I'll go along with whoever said he has a crush on Weir. How cute.

Love McKay, of course, and all his snarky glory. Also loved how he became all flustered and incoherent over the girl. He's even worse than Zelenka. :D

Good plot development stuff. The Genii should be a very frustrating and annoying people because they're so one-note, but I actually kinda like them. So far. They found a ZPM but once again it slipped through their hands. *sigh* Maybe McKay can go back and beg for it. hehe What was the comment on what was wrong with the other locations of the ZPMs?

The MENSA stuff was funny, but I'll hold my applause until I'm sure they aren't going to do to Shep what they did to O'Neill and make him a moron under the pretense of "he's just pretending to be dumb." *rolls eyes*

Markham. That's just sad. :( Why couldn't it be random names instead of characters we've actually met? TPTB seem keen to add loads of new characters to the show, I hope they aren't planning to kill off loads, too, in order to make room for the new guys...

keppiezbt
January 6th, 2005, 04:59 AM
Say cheese!


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Brotherhood'

Another new Atlantis ep, another newly-located ZPM escaping the grasp of our heroes. Dang it, I thought they'd actually maybe get it this time. I think "ARGH!" is the appropriate word. Hopefully, they'll get to keep one soon... If this particular storyline gets dragged out much longer, I'll go nuts.

Kolya's back! That's cool because he's now the only established bad guy who has an actual history with almost every one of our heroes, so everyone has learned from previous experience what to expect. Or so they think. Or something. I dunno, I'm kinda tired from work.

Cowabunga! Some random notes...
- We lost a jumper! Oh, the outrage!
- If I heard and remember correctly, one of the guys killed by the Wraith scout was a minor recurring character.
- Three hive ships approaching Atlantis, eh? I guess this is where things start to build towards an end-of-season climax... (Actually, I suppose it really started last episode with the gate adresses for planets with ZPM's on them, which was carried over into this one.)
- Bates and Zelenka and Beckett! Recurring characters galore! Oh, and Kolya too, I guess...
- So what's happened to Zora? They mentioned her, but about the only thing we can conclude based on that piece of dialogue was that she hasn't been returned to the Genii.
- So Sheppard made it a point to let Kolya live. Wonder if that will come back to bite him in the ass? Or will Kolya feel even the least bit grateful? Or will Kolya be in too much hot water with his boss now for it to matter?
- I'm all for respecting the locals on the planets the teams visit and everything, but why they didn't get to keep the ZPM was just ridiculous. "Sorry, we're keeping it and hiding it from you, even though we have no use for it ourselves. Why? Just because."
- I fully expect the Czech folks around here to tell us what Zelenka was saying... ;)

yeah why did they not take it damnit!!! well, they can go back for it next time.....i guess its another episode. what about the other gate addresses that had zpms?

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 6th, 2005, 09:04 AM
Terrific ep.

I loved how the Genii are developing, how (Colm Meany) is backing off while Koya is relentless in pursuing Sheppard. He and his guys make pretty good lookin' cowboys, too. :D

Rodney was much nicer in this ep; still funny and opinionated, but toned down. I like him better this way. Obviously the constant exposure to near/certain death is mellowing him.:p

I love how he totally lost his composure around the female guest(forgot her name) once her found out she was attracted to him, and how impressed(threatened?) he was with Sheppard's obviously genius mind. Hewlett really knows how to keep MacKay in character.

When I saw how much time was left in the ep after defeating Koya I knew that there would be a doublecross. I figured that there was still a Brotherhood remnant around, but still, it was a well done doublecross.

But, best of all, Bates had a lot of great scenes!:D :D :D Bates puts me in my place - my happy place!

prion
January 6th, 2005, 09:43 AM
Oh yeah, had only one gripe in the whole episode, no,well, two....

Didn't like seeing Markham just die like that, but that's war for you. Here one minute, in a billion bits the next, so it does add realism and angst to the show.

My gripe (drum roll, please :p )

Koyla tells Sheppard that he thought Shep was smarter than that, that a bullet wound in the shoulder wouldn't kill a person.

ARGH!!! Obviously Koyla does not know that a bullet wound to the shoulder can kill, can cripple, and even cost an arm if it hits in the right place. Many years ago, a surgeon wrote an article into TV GUIDE to complain about the prolific "It's just a shoulder wound" injuries that were everywhere on TV at that time (this was in the days of Mannix and Matt Dillon, and if you have to ask, you weren't born yet). Anyway, I just cringed at that remark Koyla made. After all, a P-90 isn't a pea-shooter. There's an intersting technical articles on P90s here (http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/870920/posts).

Of course, Shep could have shot him in the head,a but I think that would have been too messy for SciFi.... plus did Weir need Koyla's brains splattered all over? and then we wouldn't have Koyla come back for another episode (and I think he could come back in season 2).

Wass
January 6th, 2005, 09:48 AM
A good episode but not as good as pervious episodes I loved the whole puzzle thing I thought it was clever puzzle but our Mackay figured it out eventually. I love the flow from one episode to another in the second half of season 1 of Atlantis it’s really well thought out. IMO when the wraith dart was scanning Atlantis does anyone else think it may have dropped a wraith spy in Atlantis the one they find in season final

keppiezbt
January 6th, 2005, 10:09 AM
A good episode but not as good as pervious episodes I loved the whole puzzle thing I thought it was clever puzzle but our Mackay figured it out eventually. I love the flow from one episode to another in the second half of season 1 of Atlantis it’s really well thought out. IMO when the wraith dart was scanning Atlantis does anyone else think it may have dropped a wraith spy in Atlantis the one they find in season final

yes b/c that would would fit in very nicely....unless one drops one in the episode but providing that doesnt occur, then i say yes.

i agree. atlantis is having great flow and continutiy between the episodes and that of linking a past episode to a presetn and weaving the story lines togeteher. and ill be blasphamous and say that they are doing it better than they are doing it in SG1 lately.

IMForeman
January 6th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Do you think "Potentia" was possibly what the Ancients called ZPM's, or was it just something that The Brotherhood of 15 called it?

-IMF

Purpleyin
January 6th, 2005, 10:58 AM
2.) I think Dr. Zelenka has a crush on Dr. Weir.


People probably won't like me mentioning it but a friend of mine I was dscussing the ep with suggested that Zelenka was acting like that because he observed the way McKay/Weir interact, which might in a way imply some shippiness there but I guess its far more likely Zelenka just isn't used to speaking directly to her without McKay cutting in or that the writers are indeed setting up a Zelenka crush on Weir - which would still be quite cute addition.

ShadowMaat
January 6th, 2005, 11:11 AM
I don't think that Zelenka is trying to copy McKay's way of behaving with Weir, but I can easily accept that he's not used to not getting interrupted. Or he's just so distracted by his own thoughts that he doesn't realize he's still walking with her. ;)

I just think the crush thing would be a bit of cute, harmless fun. :)

joanne1138
January 6th, 2005, 12:42 PM
I can buy that he was distracted and just kept walking by accident. I've done that too many times with friends. I often end up on the other side of the building from where I should be before one of us asks 'Hey, wait a minute, where are YOU going, I'm just following you.'

I think the crush thing would be cute too. We probably won't know for sure until season 2 becuase the only other episode Zelenka is in is Seige pt2, and I imagine they would be busy with impending attack and such like then.

elvital
January 6th, 2005, 01:54 PM
yes b/c that would would fit in very nicely....unless one drops one in the episode but providing that doesnt occur, then i say yes.

i agree. atlantis is having great flow and continutiy between the episodes and that of linking a past episode to a presetn and weaving the story lines togeteher. and ill be blasphamous and say that they are doing it better than they are doing it in SG1 lately.
Yeah, I love that continuity as well :)

@Weir/Zelenka
I think he was just distracted and kept walking - nevertheless I agree it would be quite cute ;)

Easter Lily
January 6th, 2005, 11:24 PM
I love the flow from one episode to another in the second half of season 1 of Atlantis it’s really well thought out.


i agree. atlantis is having great flow and continutiy between the episodes and that of linking a past episode to a presetn and weaving the story lines togeteher. and ill be blasphamous and say that they are doing it better than they are doing it in SG1 lately.

I think you've hit the nail on the head... that I think is Atlantis' real strength.

prion
January 7th, 2005, 09:36 AM
I can buy that he was distracted and just kept walking by accident. I've done that too many times with friends. I often end up on the other side of the building from where I should be before one of us asks 'Hey, wait a minute, where are YOU going, I'm just following you.'



I'll have to watch it again, but I think Zelenka just kept walking with Weir because she's the boss, and when you're the employee (whatever) you just don't leave without getting permission. ;)

Ohper
January 7th, 2005, 04:57 PM
Do you think "Potentia" was possibly what the Ancients called ZPM's, or was it just something that The Brotherhood of 15 called it?

Potentia sounds like a good bet, being that it's Latin for "power, might, ability; efficacy, potency"


IMO when the wraith dart was scanning Atlantis does anyone else think it may have dropped a wraith spy in Atlantis the one they find in season final

I'm doubting that will come to be true.

Overall this was a great ep, I loved McKay's "You all have guns. Give me a knife." :D

Carbito
January 7th, 2005, 08:17 PM
IMO when the wraith dart was scanning Atlantis does anyone else think it may have dropped a wraith spy in Atlantis the one they find in season final

Thats a interesting idea. That "scanning beam" looked a lot like the beams that pick people up from the surface and transport them to the ships so perhaps it can also drop people down. The whole scanning idea might have just been a mistake as to what the scout was doing. Why would they even need to scan Atlantis since they would still have lots of data on the city from when they were fighting the Ancients 10,000 years ago.

Skydiver
January 7th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Thats a interesting idea. THat "scanning beam" looked a lot like the beams that pick people up from the surface and transport them to the ships so perhaps it can also drop people down. The whole scanning idea might have just been a mistake as to what the scout was doing. Why would they even need to scan Atlantis since they would still have lots of data on the city from when they were fighting the Ancients 10,000 years ago.

maybe they just wanted to know how many people were there, what power levels they had....and how big lunch was going to be when they arrived

Gaterholic
January 7th, 2005, 09:05 PM
I havent read all the replys on this ep, but does anyone else think that the writers had just finished The Davinci Code when they wrote this one?

Not that i'm complaining, it was an entertaining episode

ShadowMaat
January 7th, 2005, 09:15 PM
Granted, it's been a while since I read Code, but it never once crossed my mind during the ep. I was thinking more of Indiana Jones or something a little more... classic. Less trendy. Although knowing TPTB, it's quite possible they ARE that short-thinking. :P

Mr. Seven
January 7th, 2005, 09:29 PM
Let's all give it up for Ford! Who had his most bad ass moment of the series in this ep!

Pretends to be tranqued (might have been only a little), then does his best to take on Coyla and his goons. He's outnumbered and a little drunk, but he did ok.

Yeah this episode was great. The twist with the girl really ticked me off though.

Gaterholic
January 7th, 2005, 09:37 PM
Yea, good for ford. Right now i think he is the most underdeveloped character. I know its VERY early, but i hope they do it soon. I like him, don't want him to be 'Kes-ed' (From Voyager... just never got developed and eventually written out)

ShadowMaat
January 7th, 2005, 09:39 PM
Good point. I was very proud of Ford for that ruse, and glad that the writers FINALLY let him do something cool. Now, if they'd just remember to give him more dialogue and more involved storylines, we'll be all set. ;)

Purpleyin
January 8th, 2005, 06:57 AM
I think one of the best parts of the episode (which is pretty McKay centric anyway) was the way he dealt with Kolya this time round, more or less taking the arm comment in his stride and not even flinching when he was handed that curvy knife (looking much like the one he got tortured with).
His character seems to have grown alot since The Storm/the Eye and obviously can handle stressful situation with less panic and even some strategic thinking - must have learnt alot form Weir and Sheppard in the meantime.

joanne1138
January 8th, 2005, 12:02 PM
Yes. McKay has become less panicky in the face of danger than he has been in the past compared to 38 Minutes, for example, and the last time he was face to face with Kolya. He was much calmer here and I thought that was impressive too.

And Fords faking, I didn't expect that. I had to rewind my tape and watch again becuase I wondered 'Did Ford REALLY do that?!'. I shouldn't really be surprised as he's definitely proved he is competant, but he is the least likely of all the characters to actually DO something unexpected like that. Maybe I'm just unused to the writers NOT ignoring Ford.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 8th, 2005, 12:53 PM
I havent read all the replys on this ep, but does anyone else think that the writers had just finished The Davinci Code when they wrote this one?

Not that i'm complaining, it was an entertaining episode

Let's see:
Spoilers for those who want to read The DaVinci Code. There is the tradition of a millenias old brotherhood, clues left out in plain sight, the laser pointers made a kind of Rose line, the clues misread(thinking they added up to a gate addy, for example) the vital "key" was hidden behind a cherished work of art, badguys out to get the Holy Grail... er... Potentia(there's a difference?), a doublecross from a trusted ally.... <nods> Yes, there were definately enough similar elements to DaVinci Code, here.

Zamboni
January 8th, 2005, 06:10 PM
I didn't know Teyla became a mute during the mid season break... Methinks this is not a worthy episode after such a long break.

Besides, don't PJs have shields and stuff? Or is John's PJ special and can take multiple hits before being slightly damaged?

Calicto
January 8th, 2005, 08:06 PM
lol. ZPMs = Holy Grail.

haha.. nonetheless, I believed it to be a pretty good episode. It seems folks these days have similar weapons.

Brilliant puzzles. Good Stuff. I dont mind if its copied from The Da Vinci Code (Dan Brown) (I got the Illustrated Version! Woot!) coz Stargate is just that cool.

Fuse all the SciFi shows/books together and you get the ultimate SciFi Show...Stargate!!!!

Major Tyler
January 8th, 2005, 08:34 PM
I liked this episode. It was good. Ford got to kick some ass, and Xena got to do some more knife work...very cool stuff.
It seems folks these days have similar weapons.I'm pretty sure the new "Brotherhood" got their weapons from the Genii, possibly the "great reward" that Sanir was talking about.

alz0rz
January 8th, 2005, 08:43 PM
I liked this episode. It was good. Ford got to kick some ass, and Xena got to do some more knife work...very cool stuff.I'm pretty sure the new "Brotherhood" got their weapons from the Genii, possibly the "great reward" that Sanir was talking about.
Yeah definately, that nozzle on the pistol and some of the rifles definately seemed like they were Genii stuff, thats why McKay assumed they were Genii instantly.. somewhat identical guns :rolleyes:

aschen
January 8th, 2005, 11:16 PM
Did anyone else feel the urge to strangle Allina to death?

I know I did.

Foolish... :mad:

Major Tyler
January 9th, 2005, 12:51 AM
Did anyone else feel the urge to strangle Allina to death?

I know I did.

Foolish... :mad:There are rare times when I agree with you, aschen. ;)

rhade
January 9th, 2005, 08:58 PM
I think that while the PJ's may been more advanced than the Wraith darts 10000 years ago that doesn't take into account that the Wraith have been given 10000 years to catch up to Ancient technology. While they defeated their enemy 10000 years ago which may of slowed down their technological development that shouldn't stop it altogether. Which is why I think it is completely believable that a PJ gets destroyed so easily. No doubt the Wraith have been upgrading their own tech just in case their enemies return. Its not like the Ancients have been around to continue to develop their own tech. I wouldn't be surprised if a Hive Ship was comparable or superior to Atlantis as it is now without its ZPM.

Easter Lily
January 9th, 2005, 09:34 PM
Did anyone else feel the urge to strangle Allina to death?

I know I did.

Foolish... :mad:

I was thinking more along the lines of what she did to her fellow Daganian.
"Misguided she was, perilous things will soon become... " ;)

Perhaps she may change her mind at a later date. I was hoping for a nice little romance for Rodney.
Do you get the impression that apart from the Athosians that everyone else in the Pegasus galaxy is rather unhelpful?

The only downer, I thought, to what was otherwise a great episode. That and Markham's uncermonious exit.

Major Tyler
January 9th, 2005, 10:23 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of what she did to her fellow Daganian.
"Misguided she was, perilous things will soon become... " ;)

Perhaps she may change her mind at a later date. I was hoping for a nice little romance for Rodney.
Do you get the impression that apart from the Athosians that everyone else in the Pegasus galaxy is rather unhelpful?

The only downer, I thought, to what was otherwise a great episode. That and Markham's uncermonious exit.The Atlanteans should do some "culling" of their own until someone gets them that ZPM. As badly as they need it I'm surprised Sheppard didn't order every PJ they had to go to Dagan and try to head off Allina before she went through the gate, or at least cloak and watch the gate to see which planet the send it to. Heck, they could probably follow her and she the wouldn't be the wiser as long as they're cloaked. They could have had that puppy in a few days!

Easter Lily
January 10th, 2005, 03:34 AM
The Atlanteans should do some "culling" of their own until someone gets them that ZPM. As badly as they need it I'm surprised Sheppard didn't order every PJ they had to go to Dagan and try to head off Allina before she went through the gate, or at least cloak and watch the gate to see which planet the send it to. Heck, they could probably follow her and she the wouldn't be the wiser as long as they're cloaked. They could have had that puppy in a few days!

*Gasp* I made a typo... unceremonious, I mean...

As for why Sheppard didn't stalk the Daganians for the elusive ZPM, well, Major... we now enter the realm of speculation...
a) he's an officer and a gentleman?
b) he was too tired
c) TPTB are turning the ZPMs into the equivalent of the Holy Grail
d) TPTB thought it was too good a plot twist to pass up
e) perhaps he tried to but McKay stopped him
f) to save this one for a more dire situation in the future (but seriously what could be more dire than 3 hive ships on the approach... okay maybe 4 hive ships)

Seriously, I know how you feel though... I'm a little frustrated myself... to come so close and then to lose it because of some misguided so-and-so's sense of tradition.

Major Tyler
January 10th, 2005, 08:15 AM
Seriously, I know how you feel though... I'm a little frustrated myself... to come so close and then to lose it because of some misguided so-and-so's sense of tradition.I think that it was more than just their sense of tradition...it was pure, unadulterated averice! All they talked about was the "great reward" they would get from the Ancients if they kept the ZPM hidden. Maybe their "great reward" is having the Terrans in Atlantis to fight the Wraith for them!

ShadowMaat
January 10th, 2005, 08:21 AM
So the question becomes, is there something wrong with the people of the Brotherhood that the "great reward" would be more important to them than helping out the Atlantis crew? Some sickness or other danger to their society? Or is it more like one of the Earth religions that talks about people being given a "great reward" when they die, such as entry to Heaven?

This is a religion to these people. To use the example quoted most here, what if we were to discover the holy grail and then some outsiders bopped along and said, "Oh, perfect! That's just what we need!" and tried to take it with them to some unknown distant place, likely never to be seen again? I think quite a few people might object, even if the strangers said it was a life and death matter.

Major Tyler
January 10th, 2005, 08:32 AM
What if we were to discover the holy grail and then some outsiders bopped along and said, "Oh, perfect! That's just what we need!"I definately see your point, but the analogy doesn't quite fit.

1.) It was the Terrans who found the the Potentia, not the Daganians.

2.) The Potentia was meant specifically for the Ancients/Atlantis, and the Holy Grail is not specifically meant for anyone (at least that I know of).

3.) The Holy Grail (some believe) possesses great powers, such as that of healing, to whomever has it, the Potentia is effectively useless to anyone but the Atlanteans.

But, again, I do see your point and it is well-reasoned. :)

ShadowMaat
January 10th, 2005, 08:49 AM
OK, so the strangers come along, find the holy grail for us and then say they're taking it with them. :P People would still object. :)

aAnubiSs
January 10th, 2005, 09:06 AM
Or Jesus' mumified body. How many of you christians would like to give that away if he was mumified?

Token
January 10th, 2005, 09:22 AM
Or Jesus' mumified body. How many of you christians would like to give that away if he was mumified?

Since we Christians believe Jesus' body was resurrected, this would not even be an issue for us. :) How about a different analogy? ;)

aAnubiSs
January 10th, 2005, 09:29 AM
Ok how about the first bible ever written?

ShadowMaat
January 10th, 2005, 10:00 AM
We already have a workable example. It isn't worth finding more. :P

I love that McKay was oblivious to the woman's attentions but that everyone else picked up on it immediately. ;)

I do agree that his initial snapping at the team for their "light moment" seemed a little extreme, but I'll just assume that something was happening in the previous scene (before the beginning) to make him a little tense.

Easter Lily
January 10th, 2005, 12:31 PM
So the question becomes, is there something wrong with the people of the Brotherhood that the "great reward" would be more important to them than helping out the Atlantis crew? Some sickness or other danger to their society? Or is it more like one of the Earth religions that talks about people being given a "great reward" when they die, such as entry to Heaven?

This is a religion to these people. To use the example quoted most here, what if we were to discover the holy grail and then some outsiders bopped along and said, "Oh, perfect! That's just what we need!" and tried to take it with them to some unknown distant place, likely never to be seen again? I think quite a few people might object, even if the strangers said it was a life and death matter.

But Rodney did offer Elena the chance to go to Atlantis to see how the urgency of the situation or how the Potentia would be used. But she refused outright...

ShadowMaat
January 10th, 2005, 12:44 PM
But Rodney did offer Elena the chance to go to Atlantis to see how the urgency of the situation or how the Potentia would be used. But she refused outright...
I can still see how she'd say no. I don't LIKE it, but I can see it. It's still the scenario with the holy grail... even if one of the strangers said you could go with them and see how it would be used, A) it still isn't YOUR immediate concern, B) It still removes the grail from your posession, C) that's only you. You have a whole planetful (or so) of people who will just have to take your word for it?? I don't think so. ;)

aAnubiSs
January 10th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Should've offered them two empty ZPM:s for a charged one :)

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 10th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I can still see how she'd say no. I don't LIKE it, but I can see it. It's still the scenario with the holy grail...

<nods>Historically - in real life, that is - relics have a power of their own, often taking on more importance than their original purpose and even the god or prophet who produced them. That's what allows religious people to kill in the name of the Prince of Peace, ya know? :rolleyes:

And so, true to form, the modern-day Brotherhood cares only for the relic and not a whit about the lives about to be sacrificed.
:rolleyes:

IMForeman
January 10th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Should've offered them two empty ZPM:s for a charged one :)

THAT'S IT!!! They find where the Daganians moved the Potentia to, then pull the old switcharoo! They won't have any way of knowing!!!

-IMF

Lightning
January 11th, 2005, 08:37 AM
I lvoed the ending of this episode because i was so sure that they would get a ZPM and have power in time to fight the Wraith but instead we are left with nothing but bad bad news

Mr. Seven
January 11th, 2005, 06:23 PM
Rewatched this last night...

I love how Beckett is like a pilot now. Kind of sucks when you're a doctor with no flying or fighting experience, but you're one of the only guys who can fly the puddle jumper.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 12th, 2005, 07:32 AM
Rewatched this last night...

I love how Beckett is like a pilot now.

It's a pity that he doesn't share your enthusiasm.... :D

fair_nymph
January 12th, 2005, 05:16 PM
I have very mixed feelings about this ep. I like it but it was so frustrating for me in so many ways that it hindered my enjoyment.

Likes:
-McKay's poor attempts at hitting on Alena
-Shep showing his sexy intellectual side -- but being so anti-status that he didn't actually join Mensa. And Shep's rxn when he got the puzzle right. So cute! :D
-McKay's 'give me a knife' line
-Teyla and Ford kicking some ass; good to see them actually doing something worthwhile!
-Zelenka and the new tech guy

Dislikes:
-Losing a jumper - NOOOOOOO! And it went down so easily! I don't care so much about the people -- they can always train others -- but how are they gonna build a new jumper? ! :(
-That damn Kolya and the other Genii scum. They need to go away already! And I am SO ANGRY with Shep for not shooting Kolya right away when he first showed up (and was standing up above). Shep is a great shot and so could have hit him. Also, I don't think it's in Shep's character -- Shep would have shot him. Bad writing I say.
-Alena being such a little suck-up, and then when she finds out McKay and friends aren't Ancients, totally becoming a witch. Talk about two-faced!

lordvader
January 17th, 2005, 06:29 AM
I haven't bothered reading through this thread, but ...

HOW COOL WAS THE DHD ??? GREEN!!!!

Quinn Mallory
January 17th, 2005, 10:43 PM
Another awesome episode. The ending definitely sets things up (most likely) for the season finale.

The religious implication of the ZPM was just too much for the New Brotherhood to pass up that easily. I wonder if Alena (sp?) was ready to give it before McKay gave too much details.

A minor nitpick about the puzzle. Did they just implicitly decide to place the corner squares in increasing numerical values? In this simple puzzle of making a 3x3 square with 9 numbers valued 1 through 9 and to get it to add up to 15 horizontally, vertically, and diagonally: the solution can be rotated to produce different solutions. I would have to guess that the most natural way is to put 2 at upper left and then 4 at upper right and 6 and 8 and lower left and right respectively.

I have mentioned in the thread for the episode the Hot Zone about just how many people do the expedition have that possess the Ancient gene. We know that McKay can pilot the PJ from The Defiant One. So it is surprising to me (although a nice use of Dr. Beckett...always good to see him) that they don't have more than 3 pilots (including Sheppard and it's down to 2 after this episode). I would have thought more people would have been given the gene therapy and with the 40+% success rate, they would be able to train more guys.

Q

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 18th, 2005, 07:00 AM
I would have thought more people would have been given the gene therapy and with the 40+% success rate, they would be able to train more guys.

Q

With their luck the 40% success rate is probably mostly amongst the scientists, and we know what a bunch of babies they are. :D

"Dammit, John, I'm a doctor/astrophyicist/exobiologist/minerologist/etcerologist, ecterologist... not a pilot!" :D

Whereas any buck private assigned to the mop brigade who has the gene would be saying, "<insert TOP GUN-type gung-ho line, here>."

fair_nymph
January 18th, 2005, 06:05 PM
I get the impression that they haven't been doing much gene therapy, which I think is foolish/odd. It would be so useful in so many ways to have more gene-enabled personnel. Maybe they are concerned about safety? But then they tried on one of their most valuable persons...i.e. McKay.

Very odd if you ask me...

Funkmeister
February 4th, 2005, 03:16 PM
I loved Beckett's appearance in this episode: "I'm a doctor, not a fighter pilot!"

JackDaniels
February 5th, 2005, 08:12 AM
Well its been a few days since I saw this episode but I will admit that I loved it. I am really starting to like the Genii. They are a good enemy and not because they are all evil, but because they are trying to fight for their survival just like the Atlantis crew.

I also liked the episode because of the split in the action. It was interesting with them looking for the 9 pieces of the puzzle and also the threat of Wraith attack on Atlantis. I already love Dr Beckett so he was just great in this episode, but Dr Zelenka is becoming funnier the more we see of him. I was giggling when he mentioned that he'd picked something up like three days ago but didn't know what it was, but now they've only got 3 hours before the wraith dart is there! Bless him.

Again there was very little room for Ford, he seems to be falling into the trap of being shot/taken hostage/or just being left to do nothing. It's definitley obvious why he's not gonna be full time next year.

When the episode started I wasn't sure where it was going to go, though McKay's nervousness when John informed him that Allina had a thing for him. I was interested throughout the episode though i thought the ending (with Allina saying that she was part of the new brotherhood and that they were keeping the ZPM was a little weak and highly ungrateful!) Though the story serves a purpose, it was the Atlantis part of the episode that will obviously become the most relevant for later episodes.

All in all a good episode, though sadly not quite the standard of its predecessors (nothing had lived up to the Eye yet!)

Madeleine
February 5th, 2005, 08:32 AM
I love things where there's a puzzle to solve and I love Atlantis whenever Rodney and Shep are in the same place at the same time, so this ep was practically a sure thing from the start :D

smallgirl
February 5th, 2005, 04:20 PM
This episode had some weaknesses, for the most part the ending because yet again another lame reason had to be come up with to explain why they couldn't get from the planet what they wanted. It's like all the other previous off world episodes where they meet a new group of people who can provide something that would help protect them from/ or defeat the wraith and then at the last minute it doesn't happen. The build up is usually really good when they are trying to procure whatever it is and then you get a weak solution. All the reasons make sense in their own way but when you've had several of them it gets repetitive. I realised it wasn't going to happen as soon as Rodney told Alena that they'd only been on Atlantis for a few months and you just knew she wouldn't consider them worthy enough to receive the 'Potentia'.

Anyway the strengths far outway the weaknesses. As I said the buildup can be quite good and it was particularly effective in this episode. We had humour with McKay and Sheppard banter again, I can't get enough of that. Then extra fun because McKay was so clueless in the romance dept. I really enjoyed watching McKay solving the puzzle and then Sheppard helping at the end. Like JackDaniels, I very much enjoy the Genii as an enemy, Kolya isn't a one note bad guy. I was very pleased that Sheppard didn't kill him because I want him to stick around. Ford didn't have much to do but at least he got to kick some bad guy ass - I was cheering at that point. Teyla frankly had even less to do, and that's pretty much power for the course as well. She was nifty with a knife at one point but that was about it.

Back on Atlantis, Zelenka was amazing. He as a recurring character is more interesting to watch than Ford and Teyla combined. First there was him moaning at the computer guy about letting food and drink near the computers etc, including a funny little rant, probably containing expletives, in his own language. Secondly the whole thing when he was walking with Weir and he told her " you are the loop". That has to be my favourite line of the episode. That and him losing track of what he was doing and her saying he could carry on walking with her but didn't he have something he should be doing and he got all embarassed. Then there was the excitement with the Wraith dart and poor Carson having to turn into a fighter pilot. It was an episode packed with incident of all types and a big powerful punch at the end because we now know the Wraith are on their way and very close.

Matt G
February 7th, 2005, 04:17 PM
OK people...

1. Well first I was thinking 'Don't take the pi$$ TPTB' when Ford went down so easily but then he turned out to be faking it.

2. I was well rooting for Beckett to down the Wraith dart. Unlucky mate.

3. Ah...we bump into the Pegasus's galaxy's resident pi$$ing contest merchants again. Ah well, they'll get taken out for good some other time.

4. And talking about pi$$ing contests...*helps Major T and aschen strangle Allina*

5. Zelenka was generally cool here.

6. Did McKay saw that they'd only been around for one month?

Buzz Lightyear
February 7th, 2005, 05:52 PM
I have mentioned in the thread for the episode the Hot Zone about just how many people do the expedition have that possess the Ancient gene. We know that McKay can pilot the PJ from The Defiant One. So it is surprising to me (although a nice use of Dr. Beckett...always good to see him) that they don't have more than 3 pilots (including Sheppard and it's down to 2 after this episode). I would have thought more people would have been given the gene therapy and with the 40+% success rate, they would be able to train more guys.

Actually, we've known that McKay can pilot jumpers since 1x06, "Childhood's End". It is a bit odd why more ATA gene-enabled military aren't available at this point. I can't see many folks being reluctant to try gene therapy once they know McKay took it and was fine. You would think that all Atlantis expedition members would be eager to take advantage of anything that allowed them to access more Ancient technology.

Cronus
February 8th, 2005, 10:16 AM
For some the gene doesn't work remember. Even so I'd have thought they'd have made sure they had fighter pilots with the gene when the went.

Also, in this episode they learn they have long range scanners, so why don't they just scan for ZPMs?

Wass
February 8th, 2005, 10:22 AM
For some the gene doesn't work remember. Even so I'd have thought they'd have made sure they had fighter pilots with the gene when the went.

Also, in this episode they learn they have long range scanners, so why don't they just scan for ZPMs?

Maybe because they don’t know how to scan for a ZPM.

Cronus
February 8th, 2005, 10:28 AM
Maybe because they don’t know how to scan for a ZPM.

McKay has figured so much other stuff out I'm sure thats not beyond him. I suppose it would make for a poor story plot though; 43 minutes of watching McKay scanning deep space.

ShadowMaat
February 8th, 2005, 10:30 AM
McKay has figured so much other stuff out I'm sure thats not beyond him. I suppose it would make for a poor story plot though; 43 minutes of watching McKay scanning deep space.
I'd watch. :D Better be mostly shots of McKay, though. ;)

Cronus
February 8th, 2005, 10:33 AM
I suppose it wouldn't be too bad if him and Zelenka had some kind of race about who could scan the most space. Of course, you'd have Shep out in a puddle jumper trying to beat the to it.

Major Tyler
February 11th, 2005, 02:28 PM
I think they should have tried to convince Chaya to pay the New Brotherhood a little visit and demand that the Potentia be reliquished to the Terrans on Atlantis. She wouldn't have to use her powers or break any Ascended rules to do it. Sure she might have to fly around and put on a light show, but that
s a little different. Maybe the Ancients would demand that she never see Sheppard again as punishment, but with the Wraith on the way, it would be a fair trade.

If the Brotherhood demanded a "great reward" Chaya could say that they forfeited their reward when they did not give Sheppard the ZPM in the first place. She could also say the Atlantis surviving to fight the Wraith in the future is the reward. That'll teach 'em! ;)

easyskank
February 21st, 2005, 09:59 AM
I really hated the end of that episode where that wench steals the ZPM they worked so hard to find. Don't you think they ought to get cute ascended chick to ask the brotherhood to give atlantis the ZPM. She could just go with sheppard and do the thing where she lights up like energy and they could get the ZPM and protect Atlantis. Makes me sick.

aAnubiSs
February 21st, 2005, 10:09 AM
That would make us different from the goa'uld/wraith/genii how...?

Melyanna
February 21st, 2005, 10:13 AM
Oh, look at the spoilers in the thread title.

Qasim
February 21st, 2005, 10:17 AM
I really hated the end of that episode where that wench steals the ZPM they worked so hard to find. Don't you think they ought to get cute ascended chick to ask the brotherhood to give atlantis the ZPM. She could just go with sheppard and do the thing where she lights up like energy and they could get the ZPM and protect Atlantis. Makes me sick.
Talk like that wont make you many friends on this forum

For once I actually agree with aAnubiSs

have a look at http://forum.gateworld.net/faq.php?faq=post_nav#faq_faq_spoilerspace

Keffler
February 21st, 2005, 10:18 AM
i think they could have done more to stop them from taking it.

Qasim
February 21st, 2005, 10:26 AM
even if they do kill them how willl they find the HIDDEN zpm

Keffler
February 21st, 2005, 10:35 AM
im not saying they do kill them, that would be stupid. they just have to prove to them that they have a ritful claim to the ZPM, and surely they would have elft clues like the original brotherhood did?

Cronus
February 21st, 2005, 11:19 AM
Seeing as there is no spoiler warning in the thread title I'm going to put all this in spoilers just in case.
I can't believe that Rodney didn't actually try harder to get the ZPM. I'm not advocating killing them, but if the Atlantis team are ever going to make their stay in the Pegasus galaxy work then they've got to assert the fact that they are the descendents of the ancients. I mean they could have at least told the Brotherhood of how people like Sheppard have the ATA gene and are quite probably descendents of the ancients. The genii are right in the fact that it appears to people in the Pegasus galaxy that the Atlantis team don't have any more right to Atlantis than they do. I think they need to assert this connection more; not kill people who can't see it.

ShadowMaat
February 21st, 2005, 11:25 AM
Dude. SPOILERS. And maybe try getting this into the right folder next time. This is an Atlantis S1 subject, not Gen Disc. ;)

The Atlantis crew acts with honor as much as possible. That's a concept you probably aren't familiar with, but for better or worse, that's the way the Atlantis crew is and personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. A little gray area now and again is fine, but outright murder and piracy should hopefully be beneath them.

Qasim
February 21st, 2005, 11:31 AM
Dude. SPOILERS. And maybe try getting this into the right folder next time. This is an Atlantis S1 subject, not Gen Disc. ;)

The Atlantis crew acts with honor as much as possible. That's a concept you probably aren't familiar with, but for better or worse, that's the way the Atlantis crew is and personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. A little gray area now and again is fine, but outright murder and piracy should hopefully be beneath them.
well said

oragans
February 21st, 2005, 11:33 AM
I think they should repice with deplited one a fake one. And they won't know any wiser.

spg_1983
February 21st, 2005, 11:35 AM
it rightfully belongs to the Brotherhood, who are we to steal it? if we were gonna start doing that, we coulda just kept the one from Childhoods End.

Qasim
February 21st, 2005, 11:39 AM
now that would be cruel

Cronus
February 21st, 2005, 11:56 AM
now that would be cruel

Ford does suggest it in Letters From Pegasus, but I don't think he was too keen on the idea.
What I didn't like was that we've been backstabbed by every people in the Pegasus galaxy. We've managed to make a few friends but nothing major. Why aren't we plugging the fact that we are the ancients descendents and that things like the ZPM and Atlantis are rightfully our inheritance. I don't think they should ever kill for something like this because that would show us as being less like the ancients.

Whistler
February 21st, 2005, 11:58 AM
Well they have definatly been building up the whole Gen'ii arc into the Brotherhood, andit is almost cirtain the Gen'ii are central to the new Brotherhood, as those soldiers who you talked about were using Gen'ii weapons. I suspect, as much as the morality of the situation and of the person who first asked, is in question, that we also consider, the Brotherhood as a major force with the power of the Gen'ii's plotting and scheming on their side, you can't simply strole in and kill everyone and take the ZPM.

The Brotherhood, although seeming initially like a pathetic world that is being greedy, seems to be on the side, and under the influence of the Gen'ii, and as such is not a simple enemy. :rolleyes:

Keffler
February 21st, 2005, 12:07 PM
Well they have definatly been building up the whole Gen'ii arc into the Brotherhood, andit is almost cirtain the Gen'ii are central to the new Brotherhood, as those soldiers who you talked about were using Gen'ii weapons. I suspect, as much as the morality of the situation and of the person who first asked, is in question, that we also consider, the Brotherhood as a major force with the power of the Gen'ii's plotting and scheming on their side, you can't simply strole in and kill everyone and take the ZPM.

The Brotherhood, although seeming initially like a pathetic world that is being greedy, seems to be on the side, and under the influence of the Gen'ii, and as such is not a simple enemy. :rolleyes:


If they get virtually wiped out every couple of hundred years, how can they have such a deep influence in the PG?

Andy Alcatraz
February 21st, 2005, 12:12 PM
When they popped out of the bushes I would have ordered my team to fire.

Qasim
February 21st, 2005, 12:14 PM
That would count as murder

Andy Alcatraz
February 21st, 2005, 12:19 PM
They popped out with weapons and appeared to be Genii. It would have been the obvious reaction.

spg_1983
February 21st, 2005, 12:24 PM
When they popped out of the bushes I would have ordered my team to fire.
the team was seriously out numbered by the brotherhood, it was like 2 to 1

Janus
February 21st, 2005, 12:28 PM
We are not Goa'uld, we do not massacre people just because we feel like it.

Keffler
February 21st, 2005, 12:30 PM
they started it. lol

Andy Alcatraz
February 21st, 2005, 01:10 PM
the team was seriously out numbered by the brotherhood, it was like 2 to 1
Ah, it wasn't that bad. And we could have sent someone to the jumper and had that advantage as well.

WormholeAlien
February 21st, 2005, 04:29 PM
the team was seriously out numbered by the brotherhood, it was like 2 to 1

Hey, SG-1 get out of sticky situations where they're outnumbered more like 10 to 1. By Jaffa... trained killers. The brotherhood looked more like a peacful (may be not so trained) group of people.

Besides, I would've just left and then come back with a cloaked PJ and scanned the local area for it.

Whatshername
February 25th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Wow. What a bummer of an episode. No ZPM, Wraith are coming...oh, the drama. I loved it, though. And mmm...Mckay whumping. I am a sick, sick person.

Bobthespirit
February 25th, 2005, 07:03 PM
Okay....a few musings.

1) I think the old pattern of 'almost get the cool technology then have it taken away for strange reasons' has become transparent, especially because the brotherhood had to be made irrational and stupid to make it happen. If they don't want Atlantis to have a ZPM yet they shouldn't pull this crap.

2) When Shephard figured out the 15 thing, I had flashbacks to watching Square One when I was a kid.

3) Otherwise, it was a decent episode. I like how the Atlantis crew kick butt the same way SG1 used to back in the day. The flashbang thingy is something O'Neall would have done. But the producers should stop trying to play Indiana Jones in the future.

Thek
February 25th, 2005, 07:04 PM
They moved the ZPM to another planet...so it would be useless to come back.

Ayway...that was fun.

And...hey Ford did something! Finally we see his weapons expertise coming through, and man can he do hand to hand combat.

And Zelenka spoke Czech! That was cool!

And McKay had no idea what to do when a woman actually liked him back!

And there's an Atlantean Mensa chapter and Shep can join!

Man, this was a fun episode.

Whatshername
February 25th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Haha, yeah, the Mensa bit was great. It kind of parallels Jack's "I might play dumb and sarcastic, but I'm really quite smart...and sarcastic," trait.

Jeff O'Connor
February 25th, 2005, 07:25 PM
Now this was a fun episode. Not that I've actually disliked any of the ones before it, but I'm loving the Gen'ii arc, especially because there are three-dimensional characters as enemies, which I always dig, because it rarely happens. Not that the Goa'uld are all mindless stereotypical drones, but you've got to admit, a good lot've them are -- and the Wraith are pretty much the same. Not so much a bad thing, but it's nice to have characters like the Gen'ii as adversaries -- real emotion pumps them, humanlike drives and we can truly feel for them at times. Well, sort've.

Any chance to see good ol' mustache man again was a big thing for me -- I loved his introduction in "The Storm" and then in "The Eye" he really rocked that much more, for me. I wonder what will become of him, yet... which reminds me, I can't wait to see them finally show Sora again. At least they mentioned her in this episode! Heh.

The action was nifty, the plot was pretty good, the thinking made sense to me, and I loved McKay's comments to John about him taking the tests. John's like... "Do you really want to talk about this now!?" Heheh. Seriously, Rodney, geez!

Oh, and I had heard about the Wraith Dart through spoilin' myself already, but the way the scenario was carried out, with poor Carson out there, and everything, was really quite cool. They could have just as easily had someone else out there in a Jumper... I'm glad they factored in that Beckett, ironically, would be a good choice, rather than just have nobodies try and go out there. Nice to see the good doctor getting some action -- I love how he broke out into a sweat, poor guy!

All-in-all, "The Brotherhood" ranks in my top five to date -- and although we're not even a season into Atlantis and I'm aware of that, considering I love 'em all thus far, that still is sayin' something.

galadriel_freak
February 25th, 2005, 07:26 PM
i loved the fact that we got to see more of ford in action. it was like 'oh yeah, he's a marine isn't he'. he has some awsome moves!!!! i loved the *haha i'm not asleep* move...

we need to see more aiden, he is far to cool...

namarie

Amakusa
February 25th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Talk like that wont make you many friends on this forum

Lay off, everyone has an opinion.


That girl whats-her-face Brotherhood-wannabe is looking for her come-uppance sooner or later. Later is most likely, if ever, but I wouldn't mind seeing her get what's coming to her. If there's anything the Atlanteans shouldn't just take lying down, it's betrayal. Betrayal of trust is the highest form of betrayal, and it is unforgiveable.

Major Tyler
February 25th, 2005, 11:06 PM
i loved the fact that we got to see more of ford in action. it was like 'oh yeah, he's a marine isn't he'. he has some awsome moves!!!! i loved the *haha i'm not asleep* move...

we need to see more aiden, he is far to cool...

namarieYou should definately join F.O.R.D (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=8507). :D

Hyperspace
February 25th, 2005, 11:50 PM
Another great ep in the tradition of the excellent SG-Atlantis Season One!!!

Several things:

1) On the issue of Genii 'arming the Brotherhood' -- I'm not sure...didn't the 'wench' cuss out one of her bretheren for talking to the Genii? I think its another of the 'Stargate Theory of Parallel Planet Development' -- actually a Trek thing, where every other planet seems to have developed similar rifles. I do think that the 'New Brotherhood' had its own agenda, separate from the Genii.

2) The whole 'pull the rug out from under feet' thing at the end, a recurring theme in Atlantis. So far, I think it's not that bad; I like the threads of continuity here and there in each episode and even though this is a recurring theme, it's not overly depressing...there are 3 more gate addresses for ZPM's out there.... As for the 'New Brotherhood's' attitude, I think the best analogy is for some religious fundamentalists--who despite all new information, and even living and using modern techniques, still hold to old traditions and stubborn interpretations of old texts when they no longer make sense.

GatetheWay
February 25th, 2005, 11:59 PM
What I don't get is why AR-1 didn't try to give the same argument to the Brotherhood that Weir gave to Kolya in the Storm. In the long run getting a ZPM will practically be life or death for the Atlantians so you'd think they would of tried harder to convince them.

I really wanted to shake that girl who had/has the crush on Rodney. I mean really if they aren't going to let them use the ZPM for Atlantis so they can fight the wrath affectively then what was the whole purpose of the brotherhood in the first place if it was not to guard the ZPM for the ascendants of the ancients.

So the Atlantis team had only lived in Atlantis for a few months, so what. Our whole civilization evolved on the supposed home plant of the Ancients (speculation) and where Atlantis itself had originally been built. Doesn’t that make us ‘worthy’ enough?

But other then those small problems I thoroughly enjoyed this ep. I have liked the Genii (spastically Kolya) as an enemy ever since they had the guts to try and take the whole city. The puzzles were clever and believable. And it was great to finally see that Ford was actually good for something other then being part of the background.

The PJ blowing up was a complete surprise to me. I was shocked. Them loosing one of only five PJs and Markham, who I'll admit though was a goner all the way back in '38 Min' but have since then gotten to know a little better, was totally unthinkable for me. The reaction from Bates was very understandable and real. I think Bates may be growing on me. Hope to see more of him in the future. :)

Now, what can I say about McKay…other then the part with him at the beginning, he was great :p ! When I saw that Kolya was going to be back for this ep. I thought that it was mostly going to be Shep. facing off with Koya but there was actually a lot more of McKay facing off with Kolya, which surprised me. (I hope that last sentence made sense, I couldn’t think of any other way to explain it.) And once again McKay has most of the funny lines; the knife one was a classic! Lol :D

Sicarius
February 26th, 2005, 12:21 AM
Another enjoyable episode. I must admit I look forward to Atlantis more than SG-1 these days. It's like the writers actually know where the story is going and lay things out in advance instead of just making it up on the fly...

Ta'kara :rolleyes:

yettobeseen
February 26th, 2005, 01:07 AM
This was a decent episode, but it was mostly predictable. Here is what I learned.

The Genii are enemies and should be treated as one. They should not be given leniency just because they are human. I don't think anyone would hesitate to kill a Wraith. But its the Genii that are morally despicable, while the Wraith seek food.

The Genii was a coalition, and it should be expected that humans on a new planet are in league with them. This happened twice now. Humans can not be trusted just because they are human.

Humans in the Pegasus galaxy lack morality in the sense that they rather steal and deceive instead of cooperate. I get the sense that they don't trust each other and deal with each other only for their own benefit. In this sense they operate like the Goa'uld. No wonder these humans don't stand a chance at defeated the Wraith. Even the brotherhood betrayed the atlantis team and they suppose to be some religious sect. He who can solve the puzzle should earn the right to the ZPM. The new brotherhood did not earn this right, they mislead the altantis team then stole it.

McKay cracks under pressure and should not be on the offworld team. There must be another scientist that could do a better job. I am annoyed by his characters attitude already.

Even with the limited supplies at Atlantis, they still have helped people on other planets. But they have gained little in return. I am sorry to say that there needs to be a stronger military presence in Atlantis. May be then the Genii threat can be dealt with accordingly.

WormholeAlien
February 26th, 2005, 05:35 AM
Humans in the Pegasus galaxy lack morality in the sense that they rather steal and deceive instead of cooperate. I get the sense that they don't trust each other and deal with each other only for their own benefit

I think you'll find that is a common human trait. Only the more desperate humans get the further they're willing to go. You'll also find some of the pegasus peeps have better morals than the SGA team.

GatetheWay
February 26th, 2005, 09:42 AM
McKay cracks under pressure and should not be on the offworld team. There must be another scientist that could do a better job. I am annoyed by his characters attitude already.

On the contrary, McKay has never 'cracked' (unless you count the time Kolya tortured him in 'The Storm'). In this ep. he was actually very calm and composed compared to last time he faced the Genii and has come a long way from how he was in ‘38 Minutes’. So he panics a bit now and again, which is understandable, but he has never made a mistake because of pressure. He has in fact done some pretty amazing things in amazing circumstances like managing to retract the drive pods in ’38 Minutes’.

Hyperspace
February 26th, 2005, 12:21 PM
This episode I enjoyed quite a bit, most notably for the 'Indiana Jones' feel which is great. The one thing that bothers me a lot is the ending, which is maddening in how McKay's offhand remark may have (?) resulted in the loss of the ZPM...

Still I think McKay did a reasonably good job.

greytop
February 26th, 2005, 01:36 PM
I did enjoy this episode. I did like the banter between Bates and Beckett. :D

I don't think the new brotherhood reconized that, IMO, the only other people, beside themselves, that could operate the puzzle was someone who had the ancient gene.

I feel sorry that we lost Markham, what I saw of him I liked, and Smith.

Ramne
February 26th, 2005, 03:32 PM
This was possibly my favorite episode so far. Except the ending, kinda seems they gave up a little too easily when they had the ZPM in hand. And I would have liked to see Shep kill Kolya!

Hohenzollern
February 26th, 2005, 04:14 PM
Hmmm, i was pretty sure that atlantis itself have had to have some kinds of rocket drones like PJ has. Mybe it just didnt activate because of leak of power?

Possible spoilerage of future episodes:(highlight to read)
I believe someone mentioned that they do find an "outpost" type room on Atlantis, however there are only a few "atomic squid" with which it is loaded.
They only find it after obtaining a ZPM. So perhaps there was not the power currently to get it going, even if they had found it by now which they have not, and when they do..the ammo will be too low to do much good.

Hohenzollern
February 26th, 2005, 04:38 PM
A good episode but not as good as pervious episodes I loved the whole puzzle thing I thought it was clever puzzle but our Mackay figured it out eventually. I love the flow from one episode to another in the second half of season 1 of Atlantis it’s really well thought out. IMO when the wraith dart was scanning Atlantis does anyone else think it may have dropped a wraith spy in Atlantis the one they find in season final

Sounds reasonable. Dropped off the pilot of the scout dart, whilst it went ahead on auto (did not do much maneuvering after the scan) and complete transmission of data.

Hohenzollern
February 26th, 2005, 05:21 PM
Overall, rather enjoyed the episode. Move the arc forward, introduced the fact that there are hive ships en route, and the characters got to do "things".

I never get tired of Tayla's slick knife play and martial arts style of combat. She might speak more...also, the character seems to be picking up Sheppard's lackadaisical attitude (the scene at the table where they were "having fun" whilst McKay was working). While they are away from earth...I can't believe no one brought a Brauun trimmer. Ol' Shep needs to lose that insolent, non-military hair. ;-) Yep; larger military contingent needs to show up soon. ;-)

The Genii are proving to be a formidable enemy, I can see their argument against the Terrans, so in light of their obvious influence; I would have gone after the ZPM with a more formidable group...using the Puddle Jumpers perhaps to scan the worlds on which the ZPM's are purported to be.

Regarding Dr Weir's list of ZPM's, just recovering one would not be enough. I would want to recover the lot of them, would have likely taken the one in "Childhood's End" (could have evacuated the lot of those people elsewhere) and though they were outnumbered at the standoff with the Brotherhood, I DAMN sure would have returned in force to determine the ZPM's new location and recover it. Avoiding any killing of course, they wanted the ZPM for religious reasons, and were not overtly malicious toward the Terrans, nothing wrong with leaving one of the duds from Atlantis.

Did anyone else feel that this latest ZPM looked quite near-depleted? More than half I'd say. It was obvious in the Lost City episodes of SG-1 that the ZPM found at the outpost on the molten planet was glowing brighter, more yellow. The one found in "Childhood's End" also glowed with more inner light.
This ZPM appears a darker red...as if it had less "juice" in it. It is likely that the ZPM found in the outpost in "Lost City" was also somewhat depleted.
Thus; I wonder if a newly manufactured ZPM, if such existed, would glow a blue-ish white? Apparently they do not generate any heat to the touch though.

I am enjoying the continued development of the McKay and Zelinka characters. Both can be pretty damn direct when they want to.

Hohenzollern
February 26th, 2005, 05:59 PM
As far as the unfortunate demise of Markham and Smith; didnt Sgt Bates <?> comment that "our only 'real' pilot is currently offworld"? I presume he meant Sheppard.

The PJ likely has adequate defenses, but without the training, or rather prescence of mind to use them, or get them online, they did not stand a chance.

Too bad there are no Atlantis defenses online...sending up "boots" in puddle jumpers was rather rash but little choice in the matter.

The brief scene near the end, showing the hive ships enroute nicely underscore the desperate state of things.

Yep, show's getting pretty good.

Bobthespirit
February 26th, 2005, 06:36 PM
Another enjoyable episode. I must admit I look forward to Atlantis more than SG-1 these days. It's like the writers actually know where the story is going and lay things out in advance instead of just making it up on the fly...

Ta'kara :rolleyes:

Thing about SG1, since season 6 they've had to write every season as if it were the last -- because it might have been. So they can't really do forward planning like they did at the start, and they can't really create any unresolved storylines until the point in development where they know for a fact there will be another season.

So season 8 is like an afterthought of an afterthought. Which is why I'm glad we're getting new fresh characters next season, so they can start actually really having gate missions again.

In Atlantis, since it, unlike the Star Trek spinoffs, is as popular as it's predecessor, they can reasonably assume they will at least have a few seasons so they can work on telling a story without having to worry about having to wrap up the story nice and tidily.

Easter Lily
February 27th, 2005, 12:36 AM
This was a decent episode, but it was mostly predictable. Here is what I learned.

Really, in what way was it mostly predictable?


The Genii are enemies and should be treated as one. They should not be given leniency just because they are human. I don't think anyone would hesitate to kill a Wraith. But its the Genii that are morally despicable, while the Wraith seek food.

Leniency on Sheppard's part is not meant to be a sign of weakness...but an indication to me of his strength of character. He demonstrated grace when Genii showed none. I agree that the Genii are paranoid and self-seeking but at least they can probably be reasoned with on some level... wait for The Seige 2... I somehow don't see anybody ever reasoning with the Wraith... Anyway, Sheppard was clear that he expected something in return for this act of "mercy".


The Genii was a coalition, and it should be expected that humans on a new planet are in league with them. This happened twice now. Humans can not be trusted just because they are human.

Sheppard may be the eternal optimist but I don't think he's quite the fool you think he is... I don't think for one moment that he trusts the Genii... he pulled a few nice ones on the Genii himself with the cloaked ships, in Atlantis and in this particular instance. Hence, there is no evidence that he is trusting them because they are human. But defending Atlantis at this point in time seems to be more on his mind than exacting revenge.


Humans in the Pegasus galaxy lack morality in the sense that they rather steal and deceive instead of cooperate. I get the sense that they don't trust each other and deal with each other only for their own benefit. In this sense they operate like the Goa'uld. No wonder these humans don't stand a chance at defeated the Wraith. Even the brotherhood betrayed the atlantis team and they suppose to be some religious sect. He who can solve the puzzle should earn the right to the ZPM. The new brotherhood did not earn this right, they mislead the altantis team then stole it.

Maybe they do, may be they don't... they certainly haven't been as cooperative as some other planets that SG1 has been to in the past. But perhaps the fact that they are trying so desperately to survive the Wraith for thousands of years has made them lose sight of what we might consider basic human courtesies. I don't like it myself... but I don't think the problem is peculiar to the Pegasus galaxy. ;)
I've watched The Brotherhood a few times now, and I don't remember there being a rule that the person/persons who solve the puzzle can have the ZPM. I wasn't too happy myself when Allina pulled the rug from under the team but in her eyes she was protecting an important religious artifact from falling into the wrong hands. Misguided perhaps but it wasn't without reason. People have done worse things in the name of religion.


McKay cracks under pressure and should not be on the offworld team. There must be another scientist that could do a better job. I am annoyed by his characters attitude already.

Well, McKay is McKay... he whines, he moans and he spouts off but that's the way he is... we can't expect everyone to maintain the same amount of grace under pressure. Actually I also thought he did better than usual (he actually sounded enthusiastic)... but perhaps having a pretty face around helps. ;)


Even with the limited supplies at Atlantis, they still have helped people on other planets. But they have gained little in return. I am sorry to say that there needs to be a stronger military presence in Atlantis. May be then the Genii threat can be dealt with accordingly.

Well, in a perfect universe everything should happen accordingly but this isn't a perfect universe and they are only an exploration team... they had never heard about the Wraith or the Genii and were thus unprepared for any great military threat. However if everything fell into place as neatly as the pieces of a puzzle... the show would be oh, so predictable, don't you think? ;)

LoneStar1836
February 27th, 2005, 11:30 PM
I loved this episode. A little more simplistic story-wise than last week’s “Before I Sleep”, but excellent nonetheless.

“Someone give me a knife. *'yeah right' looks from bad guys* You all have guns. Someone give me a knife.” *snaps fingers* Priceless McKay. :D

Loved the look of disbelief McKay gave Shep when he mentioned he had taken the Mensa test. For a second he seemed he was more startled about that fact than the situation they were in. :D Hehe. Knew Shep was more than just a pretty face. ;) The “faking dumb” routine can stay confined to SG-1. Shep is not a carbon copy of O’Neill. Let’s keep it that way.

Great stuff from Dr. Zelenka as always. He gives McKay a run for his money.

Poor Markham. :( I knew he was going to buy it sometime this season because I was spoiled when I ran across somebody’s sig. even though I have them turned off. :rolleyes: But only three people (six if you count Shep and Ford and of course McKay ;)) that can pilot a PJ? As much as I love Beckett and enjoy any scenes they can squeeze him into, I would have thought they would have been training more people to pilot a PJ.

I kind of figured we weren’t going to make it off the planet with the ZPM when McKay slipped up and told Alina that they weren’t originally from Atlantis. That would have been a little too easy. I wanted to slap her several times for her reasoning for keeping it. I know people have their traditions or religious beliefs, but I still wanted to slap her. :D But then there’d be no suspense for upcoming episodes as 3 hive ships bear down upon us. Maybe I should blame the Ancients for seemingly posing as gods to these people. What is it with them? Man, they are arrogant, though Janus was cool.

Nice to see Kolya and the Genii again. Thankfully, though I was spared from any more stick fighting practice scenes with him. I just loved the one in The Storm. ;) Can’t wait to see he and Shep face-off again in the future. I’m still going to say I actually find them a more interesting foe than the wraith, but now with three hive ships coming, I may have to change that assessment.

Overall, an enjoyable and entertaining episode even if we didn’t accomplish much other than learn that the imminent danger is even more imminent.

Mil
February 28th, 2005, 08:16 PM
Oh yeah, had only one gripe in the whole episode, no,well, two....

Didn't like seeing Markham just die like that, but that's war for you. Here one minute, in a billion bits the next, so it does add realism and angst to the show.

My gripe (drum roll, please :p )

Koyla tells Sheppard that he thought Shep was smarter than that, that a bullet wound in the shoulder wouldn't kill a person.

ARGH!!! Obviously Koyla does not know that a bullet wound to the shoulder can kill, can cripple, and even cost an arm if it hits in the right place. Many years ago, a surgeon wrote an article into TV GUIDE to complain about the prolific "It's just a shoulder wound" injuries that were everywhere on TV at that time (this was in the days of Mannix and Matt Dillon, and if you have to ask, you weren't born yet). Anyway, I just cringed at that remark Koyla made. After all, a P-90 isn't a pea-shooter. There's an intersting technical articles on P90s here (http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/870920/posts).

Glad you brought this up. The shoulder shot was something I got into a long fight over concerning the season opener on Alias it’s second season. On that show the mysterious mother of the led character shows up and shoots her daughter in the shoulder. Of course I said that had to be a evil act as you don’t shoot someone in the shoulder if your just trying to wing them and not kill them. After some dispute I found out though spoiler source that the shoulder wound was as the Mannix example above and the writers still thought you could risk shooting someone in the shoulder to wound without killing. I can recall some other examples so Hollywood still has not learned that a shoulder injury can kill.

I would thought the dart shooting down the jumper was unrealistic considering earlier examples of darts shooting jumpers the jumpers had shields. I thought that was unnecessary element to add flash to the episode it would have been more true to the story so far if the dart had shot and maybe damaged the sheilds on that jumper but not destroying it and then just flew by all three as the dart did not need to shoot down anything to accomplish it’s mission.

Over all though I still loved the episode.

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 28th, 2005, 09:04 PM
This ep was kinda the equivelent of a mental shrug. Or maybe, a mental shrug plus. I found it a bit predictable (she was really the spy? no kidding). I think the biggest problem I had was this ep felt like it ended exactly where it started....so what was the point? And can we PLEASE give Teyla something to do other than stating the obvious!? But there was some good stuff. I liked that they kept developing Dr. Zelenka. Ford pretending to be unconscious and then kicking ass was great! And the banter between Shep and Mckay was hilarious as usual. Atlantis has a Mensa chapter. hee. Overall, I looking forward to next week.

Bastet11191967
March 1st, 2005, 08:20 AM
Another great ep in the tradition of the excellent SG-Atlantis Season One!!!

Several things:

1) On the issue of Genii 'arming the Brotherhood' -- I'm not sure...didn't the 'wench' cuss out one of her bretheren for talking to the Genii? I think its another of the 'Stargate Theory of Parallel Planet Development' -- actually a Trek thing, where every other planet seems to have developed similar rifles. I do think that the 'New Brotherhood' had its own agenda, separate from the Genii.

2) The whole 'pull the rug out from under feet' thing at the end, a recurring theme in Atlantis. So far, I think it's not that bad; I like the threads of continuity here and there in each episode and even though this is a recurring theme, it's not overly depressing...there are 3 more gate addresses for ZPM's out there.... As for the 'New Brotherhood's' attitude, I think the best analogy is for some religious fundamentalists--who despite all new information, and even living and using modern techniques, still hold to old traditions and stubborn interpretations of old texts when they no longer make sense.

I enjoyed the storyline, but was disappointed and disgusted with the 'New Brotherhood's' attitude about the ZPM at the end. The attitude of the Genii struck me as narcissistic, blaming the other people and getting defensive when the same flaw is pointed out in them. I think they will be causing the Atlantis team trouble for many years to come.

I think the 'New Brotherhood' and the Genii deserve each other. What a bunch of whack jobs.

Orrie_104
March 2nd, 2005, 06:43 PM
A minor nitpick about the puzzle. Did they just implicitly decide to place the corner squares in increasing numerical values? In this simple puzzle of making a 3x3 square with 9 numbers valued 1 through 9 and to get it to add up to 15 horizontally, vertically, and diagonally: the solution can be rotated to produce different solutions. I would have to guess that the most natural way is to put 2 at upper left and then 4 at upper right and 6 and 8 and lower left and right respectively.



I did notice that there are, in fact, many different ways to solve the puzzle. I wonder if different solutions lead to different actions...

I noticed something else, regarding this puzzle, the chamber, and the Brotherhood in general... and I must admit I'm surprised no one else has posted it yet.

The big seal in the chamber, that popped out the ZPM... did anyone else notice that there were *4* other stone circles that looked VERY much like the stone cap on top of the ZPM that popped out? Could there very well be 4 more ZPM's buried in that chamber?

Think about this: the Brotherhood had 15 members: 9 Protectors, 5 Stone Carriers, and one Master Handler. 9 protectors=9 stones? 5 Stone Carriers = 5 ZPM's? Master Handler=guy who activates the pedestal?

Whaddaya think?

~~Orrie

greytop
March 2nd, 2005, 06:46 PM
I did notice that there are, in fact, many different ways to solve the puzzle. I wonder if different solutions lead to different actions...

I noticed something else, regarding this puzzle, the chamber, and the Brotherhood in general... and I must admit I'm surprised no one else has posted it yet.

The big seal in the chamber, that popped out the ZPM... did anyone else notice that there were *4* other stone circles that looked VERY much like the stone cap on top of the ZPM that popped out? Could there very well be 4 more ZPM's buried in that chamber?

Think about this: the Brotherhood had 15 members: 9 Protectors, 5 Stone Carriers, and one Master Handler. 9 protectors=9 stones? 5 Stone Carriers = 5 ZPM's? Master Handler=guy who activates the pedestal?

Whaddaya think?

~~Orrie
Really hadn't noticed, but you have a good point.

Easter Lily
March 2nd, 2005, 07:04 PM
I did notice that there are, in fact, many different ways to solve the puzzle. I wonder if different solutions lead to different actions...

I noticed something else, regarding this puzzle, the chamber, and the Brotherhood in general... and I must admit I'm surprised no one else has posted it yet.

The big seal in the chamber, that popped out the ZPM... did anyone else notice that there were *4* other stone circles that looked VERY much like the stone cap on top of the ZPM that popped out? Could there very well be 4 more ZPM's buried in that chamber?

Think about this: the Brotherhood had 15 members: 9 Protectors, 5 Stone Carriers, and one Master Handler. 9 protectors=9 stones? 5 Stone Carriers = 5 ZPM's? Master Handler=guy who activates the pedestal?
Whaddaya think?

~~Orrie

Fascinating, Orrie... and I've just had another look... You're right about the stone circles... BUT according to the historical records of the Sudarian(?) people there is no evidence of any other ZPMs... When Rodney was showing the charcoal drawing to the team, he indicated quite strongly that there was one and it was seen to be a religious relic.
It also doesn't explain why the Allina was so anxious to grab just the one and go...
Still you could be right... well done for picking up on it...

SmartFox
March 2nd, 2005, 08:23 PM
I did notice that there are, in fact, many different ways to solve the puzzle. I wonder if different solutions lead to different actions...

~~Orrie

It depends on how many lines must be drawn to add up to 15. If they only count the horizontal and vertical there is many different ways. If they count the diagnol then there is only 4 ways.


4 3 8
1 5 9
6 7 2

8 3 4
9 5 1
2 7 6

6 7 2
1 5 9
8 3 4

2 7 6
9 5 1
4 3 8


I noticed something else, regarding this puzzle, the chamber, and the Brotherhood in general... and I must admit I'm surprised no one else has posted it yet.

The big seal in the chamber, that popped out the ZPM... did anyone else notice that there were *4* other stone circles that looked VERY much like the stone cap on top of the ZPM that popped out? Could there very well be 4 more ZPM's buried in that chamber?

Think about this: the Brotherhood had 15 members: 9 Protectors, 5 Stone Carriers, and one Master Handler. 9 protectors=9 stones? 5 Stone Carriers = 5 ZPM's? Master Handler=guy who activates the pedestal?

I was thinking the same thing. What i came to the conclusion is they are therejust to distract you and not allow you to figure out which one the ZPM is hidden in. That brings up another question: what type of defenses do you think they had to stop someone from not solving the puzzle but just tying to pry out the ZPM?

I was really suprised at the end, i knew that the native was going to do something once she found out that Mckay and the others didn't grow up in Alantis but were explores. But i thought they were still going up with the ZPM because i know they contact Earth in LFP. Wonder how they are going to get a ZPM for that ep, ill guess ill just have to wait.

Orrie_104
March 2nd, 2005, 11:50 PM
Fascinating, Orrie... and I've just had another look... You're right about the stone circles... BUT according to the historical records of the Sudarian(?) people there is no evidence of any other ZPMs... When Rodney was showing the charcoal drawing to the team, he indicated quite strongly that there was one and it was seen to be a religious relic.
It also doesn't explain why the Allina was so anxious to grab just the one and go...
Still you could be right... well done for picking up on it...

I'm a bit fuzzy as to how the Brotherhood was established... and that chamber in particular. Maybe the Ancients built the big wall symbol and told the Brotherhood one way to access a ZPM, hoping that whoever got the clues figured out would extrapolate the permeutations. The Lanteans knew they were in trouble 10,000 years ago, and perhaps suspected that ZPM technology may be lost.

Regarding the Charcoal rubbing... I'll check again, but was the drawing said to be of the Master Handler holding it, or merely assumed to be the Master Handler?

I hope there are more ZPM's there... because that would be an awesome foreshadowing plot device if they go back there in season 3 or 4.

~~Orrie
*shrug* what do I know, I can't read TPTB's minds... :p

6thMonolith
March 3rd, 2005, 04:44 PM
I just have a small nitpick with this episode. Didnt the Ancients use base eight? I remember from The Fifth Race that O'Neill wrote all over a chalkboard, and at the top put "10=8". Sam figured out that it was base eight, and O'Neill did have the Ancient's Database in his head, so I assume that the Ancients used base eight.

The tiles had the ancient numbers of 1-9 on them, but there is no 8-9 in base eight. After some google searching, I found out that (Base Eight)=(Base Ten)
1=1, 2=2, 3=3, 4=4, 5=5, 6=6, 7=7, 10=8, 11=9. There's no eight, nine, or ten.

SO, if the Ancients used base eight, AND the natives of the planet, who warshiped the Ancients, used base eight also, the stone/small tablets make a bit less sense. Did Rodney see the Ancient number "11" and quickly translate it to 9?

Also, I think that the tiles wouldnt add up correctly, in base 8 to 10. Ok, say that one row, (8+3+4=15) is true in base 10, but thats 10+3+4=17, in base 8, but added in base 10. In base eight, 10=8, so 10+3+4=15. but 15 in base 8 is 13. When you translate the didgets one at a time from base eight and add them, 10=8, 4=4, 3=3, 8+4+3=15. put all that back into base 8 and you have 10+4+3=13. So all the sides would add up to 13, not 15, right?

So basicly, Rodney, Sheppard and Co. Converted quickly in their heads from base 8 to base 10, or the natives to the planet didn't follow suit from the Ancients and used base 10, or the Ancients didnt use base 10, not eight, or O'Neill just wanted a challange when writing the equasion. I've been pondering this, and I still dont quite understand the whole base eight thing. Any thoughts?

Orrie_104
March 3rd, 2005, 10:47 PM
I just have a small nitpick with this episode. Didnt the Ancients use base eight? I remember from The Fifth Race that O'Neill wrote all over a chalkboard, and at the top put "10=8". Sam figured out that it was base eight, and O'Neill did have the Ancient's Database in his head, so I assume that the Ancients used base eight.

and



So basicly, Rodney, Sheppard and Co. Converted quickly in their heads from base 8 to base 10, or the natives to the planet didn't follow suit from the Ancients and used base 10, or the Ancients didnt use base 10, not eight, or O'Neill just wanted a challange when writing the equasion. I've been pondering this, and I still dont quite understand the whole base eight thing. Any thoughts?

I've thought a bit about the Base 8 math O'Neill does in "The Fifth Race". Maybe there is some high-level mathematical equations (like the ones he was writing) that are easier to accomplish in Base 8 than in Base 10?

Or maybe it was a branch of mathematics that the Asgard invented? I think they only have 4 fingers per hand... ;)

~~Orrie
Still trying to figure out all the forum quirks... :P

Hex.FTB.enabled
March 4th, 2005, 02:55 PM
all you math people are giving me a headache....:D

6thMonolith
March 4th, 2005, 03:13 PM
Or maybe it was a branch of mathematics that the Asgard invented? I think they only have 4 fingers per hand...

hmmmm... I know that we use base 2 for computers, but I still have no idea what base 8 is for, but I found this page http://www.psinvention.com/zoetic/base8.htm , which helps some, if I read it right.

As for the Asgard thing, I heard that the Aztecs(or was it the Mayas?) used base 20, which makes sense, because of the number of fingers and toes. Maybe base 8 is the Asguard system...

SG-4MarineLeader
May 7th, 2005, 09:17 PM
I actually read the transcript a week before the episode actually aired.

It was interesting to see Kolya again. I could see some interesting subplots developing between him and Sheppard.

In season 5 or 6 when Earth and Atlantis hopefully have permanent gate access to each other, I would send a US Marine regiment, and a company of British SAS back to that planet and search for the location to that ZPM.

Jonzey
May 8th, 2005, 05:12 AM
And so once again the ancients are reffered to as "Lanteans" not Atlanteans "Lanteans"

Theres is with out a shadow of a doubt no "at" at the beginning of the word. they have been called "Lanteans" 3 times now in the show.
OK, I dunno if anyone's mentioned this, and I don't really wanna go through like 10 pages to find out, but I think it's something to do with the point of origin.

We learned in lost city that the Earth Point Of Origin symbol is pronounced 'At'. And Atlantis was originally on earth.

Lt. Aiden Ford
May 8th, 2005, 12:08 PM
OK, I dunno if anyone's mentioned this, and I don't really wanna go through like 10 pages to find out, but I think it's something to do with the point of origin.

We learned in lost city that the Earth Point Of Origin symbol is pronounced 'At'. And Atlantis was originally on earth.That's eactly right.

watcher652
May 8th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I just have a small nitpick with this episode. Didnt the Ancients use base eight?I don't understand the confusion. The puzzle wasn't an Ancient puzzle. It was a puzzle designed by The Brotherhood. So even if they worshipped the Ancients, why would they choose to make their puzzle in base 8? The Brotherhood wanted to communicate with other humans, preferably of The Brotherhood, but if The Brotherhood was wiped out, then they would hope other humans would understand. So they would pick the human numbering system of base 10.

greytop
May 8th, 2005, 02:54 PM
I don't understand the confusion. The puzzle wasn't an Ancient puzzle. It was a puzzle designed by The Brotherhood. So even if they worshipped the Ancients, why would they choose to make their puzzle in base 8? The Brotherhood wanted to communicate with other humans, preferably of The Brotherhood, but if The Brotherhood was wiped out, then they would hope other humans would understand. So they would pick the human numbering system of base 10.That is they way I understood it also. Some people might have thought is was an ancient puzzle because Sheppard solve it but they forget that he is a whiz at math.

thorshammer
May 17th, 2005, 12:25 PM
I found a slight blooper, just before Allina gives a stone marker to Teyla, Ford is holding a paper and then lets go of it and looks at Tayla but when the angle changes he is holding the paper again and looking at it!

watcher652
May 19th, 2005, 10:12 AM
That is they way I understood it also. Some people might have thought is was an ancient puzzle because Sheppard solve it but they forget that he is a whiz at math.I figure the Mensa test is hard, but I wouldn't have thought that they would have wanted someone to solve a magic square problem in base 8.

SeaBee
June 5th, 2005, 03:35 PM
This was an ok ep. Not brilliant, but ok.

I thought McKay getting all nervous and babbling once he knew about the potential love interest was a scream, though.

Panther
July 29th, 2005, 03:15 AM
Guess, what my complaint will be about...

david2708
July 29th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Atlantis has been really disappointing for me. The Brotherhood is yet another dull episode that seems there to make up the numbers for the 20 eps for the year. Filler eps will always be there, but I haven't really seen an ep since the premiere that was of much great interest.
The last couple of eps for the season may be exciting, but that doesn't excuse having 3/4 filler for the rest.
As a season I give the show a C minus.Mostly for sheer lack of creativity.

paulacole
October 25th, 2005, 09:46 AM
McKay: Well, what do I do?
Sheppard: You don't know what to do?
McKay: I know what to do EVENTUALLY. I mean, what do I do NOW?

Love the banter between McKay and Shep. Reminds me of Jack and Daniel in the ealier days, only more easygoing and less condescending.

Does anyone else think the best thing TPTB did for SGA was having a close age gap between the two male leads? RDA is like twenty years older then MS, and Kurt Russell is like ten years older then James Spader and I never saw that competitive, brotherly comaraderie.

SilverRider
November 20th, 2005, 09:59 PM
I soo didn't like the ending. Aillan (SP, right?) should have listened. I didn't like her at all. :(

GatetheWay
November 20th, 2005, 10:56 PM
I liked this episode even though you knew from the begining that they had a snowball's chance in hell of getting and keeping the ZPM. I'm glad the betrayal wasn't overly played like it could of easily been. There just wasn't enough between McKay and whats-her-name too really make it too personal.

captain jake
April 10th, 2006, 12:03 PM
I cant believe they let them take the zpm. Why dont they go back and take it from them.

harsiesis child
May 26th, 2006, 10:15 AM
Probably the best "indiana jones"-type episode :D of stargate: usually the riddles are not too difficult but here it was not easy to solve.
Very good scenario (it has received a prize for it, hasn't it?), and we have Kolya... :jack_new_anime25:

captain jake
June 2nd, 2006, 08:41 PM
What do you mean by the riddles are usualy not to difficult?

Steven_the_Atlantean
August 9th, 2006, 05:17 AM
There goes our opportunity of a fully charged ZPM. They should of took the puddle jumper back, and detect it, then use wraith stunners to get their way through people who were protecting it from us.

PG15
August 11th, 2006, 08:11 PM
There goes our opportunity of a fully charged ZPM. They should of took the puddle jumper back, and detect it, then use wraith stunners to get their way through people who were protecting it from us.

Bolded mine.

That's a big assumption there. What if they hid it off-world?

Dark Falcon
September 26th, 2006, 04:11 PM
Dang it, those brotherhood jerks took our ZPM. I hope that
the brotherhood gets kulled by the Wraith soon! :mad:

spook123
October 31st, 2006, 11:23 PM
Answered questions...

ZPMs glow yellow when active and are redish when not active. color has, IMO, nothing to do with the power remaining in them.

PJs do not have the ability to detect ZPMs. life detectors maybe, but not with any sort of decent range.

The atlantis long range sensors are not the same as the internal sensors which could detect a zpm. Also the range that you were talking about is 3 to 4 orders of magnitude more than what i believe the long range sensors are capible of scanning. they would likely be able to pick up anything within the solar system, but not things in other systems.

as for coming back with a PJ to find the ZPM, they really don't have the time to do that. given the choice which would you want, the thing that happens in the next episode, or getting this ZPM (possibly).

Anubisjackel
March 11th, 2007, 10:12 PM
This was another episode that I liked. Robert Davi did a great job in this episode. I liked him in The Storm and The Eye...and again here. He is a really great actor and his characters are sooo interesting to watch. I've seen him on Profiler and enjoyed watching him there. But, now that he's been on Atlantis...I try to watch this episode as much as possible. I'm not a fan of Robert Davi's but he portrays a good bad guy. I'm glad that they were able to get him for this episode. His interaction with Sheppard is just outstanding. You can see it in Sheppards' eyes whenever he looks at Kolya. He just wants to kill him right there...but he wants points for this. Love that line. :)

klor'el
March 24th, 2007, 04:37 AM
Hi , have just recently watched this ep ( i know , we are a long way behind in australia ) but that zpm looked dead to me . it wasn't glowing like any of the others we have seen. please correct me if i am wrong.

klor'el.

Trek_Girl42
March 28th, 2007, 02:04 PM
Hi , have just recently watched this ep ( i know , we are a long way behind in australia ) but that zpm looked dead to me . it wasn't glowing like any of the others we have seen. please correct me if i am wrong.

klor'el.
I think they actually have to be plugged into something (like the Atlantis shield, or the EM barrier(?) from Childhood's End) to be glowing..... ;)

theboywonder
March 29th, 2007, 11:50 AM
what i dont get is why we just didnt send different people back a couple of months later dressed as the ancients to retrieve it?

garhkal
March 30th, 2007, 12:17 AM
I think they actually have to be plugged into something (like the Atlantis shield, or the EM barrier(?) from Childhood's End) to be glowing..... ;)

Yup. Though iirc the 'dead ones; look a little blacker inside..