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Bagpuss
May 14th, 2004, 03:01 AM
OK Folks!
We already have various Pro-Ship/Anti-Ship and Pro-Character "X"/Against -Character "X" discussion threads here.Not a problem,IMO! There is a "gap" though,which I feel can be bridged.To wit:The Non-Ship/Non Hate-Figure angles vis our favourite Show !

To achieve this aim,I've come up with "The SG-1 Neutral Zone".
This is designed for all those GW Posters who want to talk freely about their views on any general Stargate topic: eg.Plot ideas,plot holes,what they want in Season 8..etc...the rule being free discussion, WITHOUT resorting to attacks or defence of ANY Ship pairings.No grudges either!

Ideally if we all agree to dispense with the apparent "My Side v Your Side" stuff ,this should be a friendly place to air our views about the Show and its characters without hostility breaking out!

Purely IMO,there are too many wonderful areas of discussion here,to spend our time worrying about "Siding" with any one POV !Or "Stereotyping" each other,either.

So go for it,Gater Pals,and let's see some "Tolerance".Please .Pretty Please?
Let's all "Play Nice"! :D

Catysg1
May 14th, 2004, 03:05 AM
Ok ....Do you see any patterns emerging regarding where Stargate sg1 season 8 is heading to "Alias" and "the x-files" ..cuz I do....on several plotlines...

And you!!!!! ;)



Caty :)

the_fours
May 14th, 2004, 03:17 AM
i see what you mean and i hope not cos frankly im getting a bit board with alias

Bagpuss
May 14th, 2004, 03:59 AM
Ok ....Do you see any patterns emerging regarding where Stargate sg1 season 8 is heading to "Alias" and "the x-files" ..cuz I do....on several plotlines...

And you!!!!! ;)



Caty :)

Hi Caty!

I'm not an "Alias" watcher,so I can't express any opinion there!Sorry! :o

As for the X-Files,there have already been some similarly themed episodes.(Nightwalkers and Resurrection as good examples) I enjoyed both of these episodes very much, and won't be too surprised to find similar themes in Season 8.

IMO,the underlying "Conspiracy" theories in the X-Files are rather similar to the SG1 Rogue NID themes and shadowy back room figures, seen coldly plotting the downfall of Hammond ,and trying to frame Jack for the attempted
"Assassination" of Senator Kinsey in "Smoke and Mirrors".

I loved that episode,but it was so like the X-Files,I expected to see the Cigarette-Smoking Man turn up at any moment!

Catysg1
May 14th, 2004, 04:10 AM
Hi Caty!

I'm not an "Alias" watcher,so I can't express any opinion there!Sorry! :o

As for the X-Files,there have already been some similarly themed episodes.(Nightwalkers and Resurrection as good examples) I enjoyed both of these episodes very much, and won't be too surprised to find similar themes in Season 8.

IMO,the underlying "Conspiracy" theories in the X-Files are rather similar to the SG1 Rogue NID themes and shadowy back room figures, seen coldly plotting the downfall of Hammond ,and trying to frame Jack for the attempted
"Assassination" of Senator Kinsey in "Smoke and Mirrors".

I loved that episode,but it was so like the X-Files,I expected to see the Cigarette-Smoking Man turn up at any moment!



Well .....Kinsey is a little bit like cancer man...he doesn' t smoke though.. :rolleyes:
!! and yes "Nightwalkers" reminded me of" roadrunners" when Scully got made a prisonner in that small town and they stick a slug in her back....and they were all weirdos walking at nigth...and in "Resurrection" I saw Sam as scully and Barrett as Mulder ...and when Sam is looking at the partially developped fetuses ..well I saw Scully in "Per manum" looking at the same jars.

I loved the x-files ..and the movie too :D (Damm Bee :rolleyes: )

The conspiracy and the NID . yes ..... and the framing that they did on Mulder and Jack ...another one .

Also Mulder was a responsible Guy but he also was a joker like Jack and did put Scully down occasionnaly at the beginning of the series ..She.... like Sam always took it very well and didn't care much.


And the Sam story ARC (the Tokra (Jolinar)..which left her with some side effects) was as brilliant as Scully story Arc ( The alien abduction with her cancer)

I'll try to think of other similarities....but those ones are excellent. :)

Mulder has been court martialled though and sentenced to death by lethal injection... wonder If jack will ever be court martialled one day!!!!!!...I don't suppose so because of his rank..but hey Mulder was wearing orange and I so can see Jack wearing that color too :D

Caty :)

Whitster
May 14th, 2004, 04:14 AM
I think that there are X-Files similaritys but the X-Files conspiracy was alot darker and stranger than the one currently arising in SG1. I.e. if the X-Files conspiracy is completly copied it would end up with the government signing a deal with the Asgard to create asgard human hybrids. Although what with the Asgards cloning problem this plotline doesn't sound so far fetched.

Catysg1
May 14th, 2004, 04:19 AM
I think that there are X-Files similaritys but the X-Files conspiracy was alot darker and stranger than the one currently arising in SG1. I.e. if the X-Files conspiracy is completly copied it would end up with the government signing a deal with the Asgard to create asgard human hybrids. Although what with the Asgards cloning problem this plotline doesn't sound so far fetched.


I thought about this cloning thing too..very x-filish ( season 9).

Seems to be a plotline in Stagate too.


Caty

maboroshi
May 14th, 2004, 05:09 AM
...end up with the government signing a deal with the Asgard to create asgard human hybrids. Although what with the Asgards cloning problem this plotline doesn't sound so far fetched.

In Unnatural Selection, wasn't there some line about Loki's 'unsanctioned' experiments. And the reply "There are *sanctioned* ones?"

Or am I just misremembering in technocolour?

Matt G
May 14th, 2004, 05:25 AM
A few things.
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Yes SG1 has gone into X Files territory a few times - particularly with Nightwalkers - and got away with it IMO.
S8
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It might also go into Alias territory as well in Endgame. We'll see how that turns out.

I can't help thinking though about a fanfic character of mine called Rick Francis(who also appears in Thunk - you either know him or you don't) and realising that if he really did exist in the same canon reality as SG1 Hammond and Jack would just keep him on a nice little retainer so that the likes of The Trust WOULDN'T have to be dealt with by SG1!

SeaBee
May 14th, 2004, 05:26 AM
Spoiler space for season 7
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I am sure that the Asgard were designed to look as they do so that the "alien abduction" storyline was available. Thor himself made a reference to Jack's DNA being important, which was why the cloning procedure failed, and the mini Jack came about. This therefore points to the Asgard having monitored the evolution of the Human race for some time, and maybe a little bit of manipulation. The Asgard need some serious re-sequencing of their own DNA, and the easiest way would be to splice some fresh, compatable DNA from a donor species. The fact that they were obviously working in secret, until Jack fell through the gate and met them, makes me wonder how good the Good Guys really are.

Or am I just paranoid?

nugglebugget
May 14th, 2004, 08:03 AM
In Unnatural Selection, wasn't there some line about Loki's 'unsanctioned' experiments. And the reply "There are *sanctioned* ones?"

Or am I just misremembering in technocolour?spoiler space season 7
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That was from "Fragile Balance" during the confrontation with "Loki".He'd made the remark about having gotten into trouble for conducting "unsanctioned" experiments ,to which "Jack "replied "You mean there are [sanctioned] ones?
Needless to say the whole incident left the "Colonel" quite Irked;) .

maboroshi
May 14th, 2004, 10:00 AM
Thanks nugglebugget. I remembered the reference vaguely, but I'm at work and couldn't pop in the DVD. :)

Bagpuss
May 15th, 2004, 10:13 AM
spoiler space season 7
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That was from "Fragile Balance" during the confrontation with "Loki".He'd made the remark about having gotten into trouble for conducting "unsanctioned" experiments ,to which "Jack "replied "You mean there are [sanctioned] ones?
Needless to say the whole incident left the "Colonel" quite Irked;) .

LOL! I'm not surprised Jack was "Quite Irked"!I can't say I'd be too pleased at the Asgard playing around with my D.N.A either,especially if I couldn't get at any coffee- I NEED my Caffeine way too much! ;)

More seriously,I wondered if "Clone Jack" would find life as a Teenager harder or easier ,given that he had Real Jack's memories?

Although he was attempting to live his own life, could he find himself in trouble if any of Earth's enemies, or "The Trust", decided he might be useful as a source of information,once they used a memory recall device on him?

Hmmm..some scope for Clone Jack to feature again,IMO! ;)

SeaBee
May 16th, 2004, 09:54 AM
More seriously,I wondered if "Clone Jack" would find life as a Teenager harder or easier ,given that he had Real Jack's memories?



I think he would probably find it quite hard to ajust to having to be a teenager again, at least at first, as he would have to un-learn all his 50 year old thinking, and learn to like the things that the youth of today like. And no beer! And school!

On the other hand , his world-wiseness would help in the romance dept.

Liebestraume
May 16th, 2004, 10:47 AM
More seriously,I wondered if "Clone Jack" would find life as a Teenager harder or easier ,given that he had Real Jack's memories?
I think it'd be very hard. Forget those lofty concerns, such as the balance of the universe, etc, and consider the mundane. Like with whom would he hang out, or whom would he date? I thought it quite "ewww"-worthy when "Clone Jack" was checking out those girls at the end of Fragile Balance. No wonder "Real Jack" was giving him weird looks.

ShadowMaat
May 16th, 2004, 10:52 AM
Things I love about the show:

The concept. I'm a big scifi fan. I also love the idea of space exploration. The stargate offers a great solution to the problem of stellar distances. Gotta love those shortcuts. ;) I like the design of the gate itself, although I heard somewhere that the original design was going to be a triangle (fitting with the pyramid theme). I'm curious how that would've worked, since a spinning inner track would have been a lot trickier if there were angles. Maybe it would've been lights spinning around the outside. ;) As "problematic" as the whole constellations thing is, I like that, too. It helps establish a bit of a "connection" with the gate network/concept. There are other ways it could have been done (use hieroglyphic symbols or something instead), but the constellations are kinda fun. :)

The characters. Each brings something important to the show, from Hammond and Jack right on down to Chevron Guy and Luke. ;) I like some characters more than others, and there are some that don't interest me at all, or who annoy me, but generally speaking, that's because they're supposed to evince that reaction from me. I like the chemistry of the team. The meshing of the personalities isn't always perfect, but then, it never is. I love Jack's sarcasm and bull-headedness, Sam's sciencey ebullience, Daniel's absent-minded preoccupation with his work, Teal'c's quiet but reassuring presence, and Jonas's curiosity and enthusiasm. Taken separately, together, or in just about any (platonic) combination, they're all great characters and it's a pleasure to watch them. Seeing them grow and change over the years has been both fun and heartbreaking (usually in the appropriate places).

The aliens. Sure, I could wish that a few more of 'em weren't quite so human-looking, but I still like most of the ones we've seen. The Asgard rock and while the Goa'uld haven't, IMO, been quite as menacing as they used to be, they're still a fascinating group and I hope we'll get more background on them in the future. I've been reading the SG-1 RPG book about the "Living Gods" and some of the background stories for the various system lords is really interesting. Not all of it may fit strictly with canon, but it definitely gives you some ideas and it some cases, it helps to explain a few things.

The cultures. This has tapered off a bit in recent seasons, but I love the exploration of the various orphaned Earth cultures on alien worlds, how they're different from us, how they're the same, and how they relate back to their "original" peoples. I was an Indiana Jones fan long before Stargate came around, so all the archaeology and whatnot is right up my alley. I was also heavily into Egyptian mythology even as a kid. I skipped ahead to the Egyptian section in my textbook when everyone else was reading about the Greek/Roman gods and it always annoyed me that Egypt was never covered in our mythology-based classes.

Science and technology. I may be incapable of doing math, but I've always loved science, and the wilder the theories, the more I loved it. I used to drive my Physics teacher buggy because I'd be pulling C and D grades on the basic stuff, but would come to him with questions on quantum theory and Kelin bottles and such. ;) And what's not to love about the tech? Not just the weapons (which are fun in themselves), but things like the stargate (naturally), the ring transporter (I still think that scene with Jonas in Descent ranks as one of the coolest visual effects on the show, ever), the sarcophagus, Asgard beaming technology, the genetic resequencer Nirrti used... there's tons to love if you're a science/gadget geek. ;)

Moral dilemmas. They don't happen too often, but when they do, boy! Great stuff for debate and it really makes you question things. I still have severe issues with what Jack did in Unnatural Selection and even though I can understand his viewpoint, it still really bothers me. Same goes for Menace. I know why he did what he did, but it doesn't mean I have to like it and it doesn't mean I think he was entirely right for doing it. Of course, I'm also very big on the concept of robot/android rights and defining what "life" is. Robo SG-1 was awesome, and while I can understand the practical reasons for letting it drop, I'm kinda disappointed that they haven't done more with it. I'd really like to know what's become of Harlan and if he ever made any more robots.

Humor. Stargate is a show that isn't afraid to laugh at itself. I love that! The comedic eps of X-Files always ranked among my faves because they were wildly different from what you usually get on the show (but still at its heart an XF ep) and it helps leaven the atmosphere. Same holds true for Stargate. I also love all the snarking in some of the more "serious" eps. I'm a sarcastic person, myself (in case you hadn't noticed ;)), so I really appreciate that brand of humor being used to such effectiveness.

I'm sure there's more (there's always more), but I figure that's at least a good start. And hey, wonder of wonders, I can say positive things about the show! :P

stargate barbie
May 16th, 2004, 01:54 PM
And hey, wonder of wonders, I can say positive things about the show! :P

i'm so proud :)

you pretty much covered a huge part of what i love about the show.
i also love how stargate can do such amazing visual effects. they can produce feature film quality effects on a fraction of a feature films budget.

i love the character interaction, notjust between the main cast and regular guest cast, but also among the once off guest stars. especially sam and mckay (48 hours), they had a fantastic rivalry that was very fun to watch.

i too have noticed the odd x-files resemblance, but i never really noticed the parallels to the extremes that other people have, until it was pointed out to me here. i love the episodes that are somewhat x-filesesque (back when the x-files really rocked).

basically, my love of stargate knows no bounds, and i'm really glad that this thread is here. yay.
(thanks bagpuss :) )

Catysg1
May 16th, 2004, 02:40 PM
I'm sure there's more (there's always more), but I figure that's at least a good start. And hey, wonder of wonders, I can say positive things about the show! :P



Yes ...and you did it very well :) I really enjoyed reading your post :)



Caty

SeaBee
May 17th, 2004, 08:26 AM
I have to say that it's the tech stuff on SG-1 that rings my bell with the show, and why I've stayed with it. I'm a big fan of heavy science fiction books that delve into the science of the story, and I really enjoyed "A Brief History of Time" by Prof. Steven Hawking.

The show that hooked me was "A matter of time" as it involved my favourite topic, black hole theory. I think if "100 Days" had been my first one, it would probably been my last. I would have loved to see more of SC building the plasma projector, and a lot less of Jack stuck on the planet.

So far I have managed to avoid the spoilers for season 8 and Atlantis, as I always prefer not to know what's coming. "Heroes" was kind of killed for me by an un-warned season spoiler printed in a Sci-fi mag interview with Teryl Rothery. It meant that the whole "is it Jack?" plot thread was a waste of time for me, as I already knew it wasn't. I have to say that my policy of not wanting to know is driving my wife up the wall, as she HAS read spoilers about both shows, and can't tell me about them!

Still every day brings us closer to the shows, so not too long to wait. :)

stargate barbie
May 17th, 2004, 01:07 PM
this is the first time in a long time that i've been trying to avoid as many spoilers as possible, and i gotta say, i think i prefered being the one who knew what was going to happen and couldn't spoil my friends to being the one trying to avoid spoilers. but i really want to see if my enjoyment of the show is furthered by not knowing what's going to happen. although i loved 95% of season 7, i still think i may have liked one of the two episodes i didn't like if i hadn't known the details and heard what everyone in the U.S. thought about it first.

it makes navigation of threads and sites with spoilers kinda tricky, but i think i can do it. (cos i'm not gonna stop checking out gateworld, i'm just gonna learn to navigate it with great skill and if i happen to see something spoilerish, hopefully it'll be like when i was in school, and i just wont remember any of it ;) )

Bagpuss
May 17th, 2004, 02:28 PM
I have to say that as far as spoilers are concerned,I tend to read the GW one's out of sheer curiosity!I'm just too weak to resist....just in case I might miss something really important, to the story development.

I avoid the Sci-Fi mags, at the moment, though,as I don't need a repeat of the situation I had before Season 6 aired.

I'd bought one of my usual mags,as the index promised some in-depth reviews of Season 5,some analysis of the new character Jonas Quinn and a look ahead to S6...

Included within all that,though,was a list of things to look ahead to in S6.
It was stated as Fact that "We'll bid a sad goodbye to Sam's Dad in S6".Or words to that effect.For obvious reasons,I have no intention of naming the Mag concerned!

This being long before I joined GW,I had no way of questioning this article,so I watched Season 6 with some reserve as I have always liked Jacob/Selmak!

Needless to say,the dual character is still alive and kicking,and (so far) ,no threat to his possible appearance in Season 8!

I wish you good luck in avoiding all the Spoilers,Stargate Barbie,as it's a real test of skill and determination! :D

stargate barbie
May 17th, 2004, 02:36 PM
thank you. i'm pretty sure i'm too weak to do it and i'll fail sprctacularly though! ;)
but seriously, i think i'll survive by only reading vague spoilers.
i think if they were to kill off jacob, it'd probably kill me too. i'm really trying to avoid rumours, for that reason exactly though. i'm not putting any faith into the ones i do hear by accident either. there was some stuff reported about some season 7 episodes, and some people were putting a lot of faith and belief into them. i don't want to get all worked up over something because i think it diminishes the intended effect when we actually see the episode. if we picture it one way, and its played out in a completely different way, sometimes its a let down. i find it happens more with other shows, than with SG-1, but sometimes it does happen there too.
no more reading transcripts for me then!

Bagpuss
May 17th, 2004, 03:15 PM
LOL! You can do it! Probably only if you "Go Hermit" for a while,though.Not easy,IMO. ;)

Either that, or start a "NO SPOILERS TOLERATED, OR WE'LL EAT YOU" Zone?

Actually it's a thought.Not a very good one(!). ;)

Have to cook up some better ideas than those, won't I!

Actually,you've got a good point with the Season 7 episodes,really.There was a lot of Spoiler info in the Mags too,and on-line stuff by the Giga-Byte,also,
to judge from all the sites I wandered into, before deciding to join Gateworld and GW Forum in March.

I'm not against Teasers and Spoilers,myself, but they're a pain for anyone like yourself and SeaBee! I'd bet you two aren't the only Posters who'd like to wait it out too...

Be strong! Resist the Transcripts.The Force is strong within you.....Oops.
Wrong Fandom Quote.(At least I didn't inflict you with my fave phrase when trying to get the younger Gatelet to do homework:"Read You Will"! No help at all in this case,IMO!) ;) Yoda impressions have their limitations...

stargate barbie
May 17th, 2004, 03:47 PM
;) Yoda impressions have their limitations...
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!!!!!!!

Bagpuss
May 17th, 2004, 06:13 PM
MMmmm! Back, I Take. Mmmmm.Shout, you mustn't! Mmmmmm..yadda,yadda.
(Maybe that should have been "Yoda,Yoda" ;) )

FHB *Whispers* The only reason I said "Yoda impressions have their limitations" was because....... I'm not very good at them! LOL!

SeaBee
May 19th, 2004, 01:03 PM
i don't want to get all worked up over something because i think it diminishes the intended effect when we actually see the episode. if we picture it one way, and its played out in a completely different way, sometimes its a let down. i find it happens more with other shows, than with SG-1, but sometimes it does happen there too.
no more reading transcripts for me then!

It's nice to see I'm not alone in my beliefs.

Another thing I have noticed with potential spoilers is that some seem to be deliberately provocative, causing a number of vitriolic threads to appear, as posters either passionately believe or disbelieve whatever has been said. Then, when it isn't what happens, even more vitriol appears, as the two opposing camps start fighting over whether it should have happened or not. Personally nothing turns me off a thread quicker than "Did! - Didn't!" posts, with all the bad-mouthing that usually follows.

I've got nothing against people who look for and enjoy spoilers, but quite often a form of Chineese Whispers changes a throwaway remark made by a member of the cast or crew during an interview, into gospel truth.

No, for me, it's "Ignorance is bliss"! :)

stargate barbie
May 19th, 2004, 03:23 PM
i think where i really started to go wrong was when i'd read a thread about an episode that had aired in america, and hear all this stuff people were talking about, and get curious, another word might be weak! then i found a link to a transcript site and it ruined my life!!!;)

ok, i'm gonna do a u-turn here,and change topics from spoiling and what not.

who here buys the dvds?, why?
and what does everyone think of unas episodes?

SeaBee
May 19th, 2004, 10:57 PM
I haven't got any DVDs yet. I was getting the vids thru a club, but they got to the end of season 4 and then stopped sending them! So, if I want to complete my collection (and I do) I will most likely buy DVDs.

As far as the Unas go, I wish they would go further. Frankly they bore me. The only one I enjoyed was "Thors Hammer".

stargate barbie
May 20th, 2004, 02:19 PM
I haven't got any DVDs yet. I was getting the vids thru a club, but they got to the end of season 4 and then stopped sending them! So, if I want to complete my collection (and I do) I will most likely buy DVDs.

As far as the Unas go, I wish they would go further. Frankly they bore me. The only one I enjoyed was "Thors Hammer".
i do get the dvds, (region 2). i've got 'em all so far. if you're thinking of getting them, i'd recommend starting anywhere between seasons 4 and 7, because they have the best extras.

personnally i liked every unas episode (including "demons" which doesn't seem to be too popular) except for season 7s "enemy mine".
my fave was probably "the first ones" though.

Ugly Pig
May 20th, 2004, 02:43 PM
Ideally if we all agree to dispense with the apparent "My Side v Your Side" stuff ,this should be a friendly place to air our views about the Show and its characters without hostility breaking out!
This is a great idea. To me, every and all "sides" in the various debates going on between partitions in the fandom can annoy me. Some more than others, sure... But for me, there is no one aspect of the show that keeps me tuned in. I love the show for its basic concept, its story, its action, its humor, its excellent visual effects and its characters - all the characters. Basically, I love the show for being exactly what it is. Sure, it can't always please everyone - and occasionally there are episodes I could do without. But overall, theres nothing about the show that I would want to have changed.

stargate barbie
May 20th, 2004, 03:45 PM
This is a great idea. To me, every and all "sides" in the various debates going on between partitions in the fandom can annoy me. Some more than others, sure... But for me, there is no one aspect of the show that keeps me tuned in. I love the show for its basic concept, its story, its action, its humor, its excellent visual effects and its characters - all the characters. Basically, I love the show for being exactly what it is. Sure, it can't always please everyone - and occasionally there are episodes I could do without. But overall, theres nothing about the show that I would want to have changed.

i agree. although i do belong to one particuar faction, i do love all aspects of the show, and i even like that occasionally there are episodes or elements of episodes that don't really do it for me, it shows how the show does tend to appeal to various groups of people. i know that different people are looking for different things in a show, and i think for the most part, stargate provides that variation for people. i know some people really don't like funny episodes in sci fi, and some people don't like the big moral of the story episodes, but stargate incorporates them all with enough balance to pull it off. i think the main characters also have enough differences in their personalities, so that most people will find someone or something about them to relate to. at least in my opinion.