PDA

View Full Version : Dark Side Of The Moon (516)



Madwelshboy
March 12th, 2010, 10:34 AM
SAM AND DEAN ARE KILLED AND GO TO HEAVEN — Ambushed by angry hunters, Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) are shot and killed and sent to Heaven. Castiel (Misha Collins) warns Dean that Zachariah (guest star Kurt Fuller) is looking for them in Heaven so they need to lay low while searching for an angel named Joshua (guest star Roger Aaron Brown) who can help them since he talks directly to God. While searching for Joshua, the brothers run into some old friends and family members. Jeff Woolnough directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb & Daniel Loflin.

http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv170/madwelsboy/079619ea9691d29c4bb55995c2600bc4.jpg

Post Viewing Discussion Only

the fifth man
April 1st, 2010, 06:16 PM
Really amazing episode IMO. This is why I love this show. What do you guys think of the end? Do you really think God just doesn't care anymore? Or is he just trying to motivate the Winchesters to solve this themselves?

flameling
April 1st, 2010, 07:12 PM
Well, this was an interesting episode. Was any one else surprised when YED appeared in there heaven? I liked how they provided discreptions of what an angel truly is in its true form. It was nice to see Ash and Pamela and for Ash to mention other times that they died. As for the ending, there known for surprises so I wasn't to shocked. And to me Castiel and Dean had two very powerful responses. Castiel seemed upset and betrayed by his father while Dean seemed like he was no longer cool headed and probably thinking that he has to say yes to Michael.I think Dean throwing away the amulet showed how upset he was as to what they were told. No, he did not focus that angels besides Castiel were rooting for them but rather that God was ignoring them. Sam was the only one searching for options and I think that that spoke volumes about his character.

kennythewraith
April 1st, 2010, 10:47 PM
Really amazing episode IMO. This is why I love this show. What do you guys think of the end? Do you really think God just doesn't care anymore? Or is he just trying to motivate the Winchesters to solve this themselves?

i think god really doesnt care anymore right now but im suspecting that something will happen in the next 6 episodes where he will step in somehow,he might not solve it but at least point them in the right direction.
i mean krpke also said that god will show up in the flesh at somepoint so obviously this storyline isnt over imo

starg8fans
April 2nd, 2010, 12:00 AM
Wow - just wow. What an amazing episode. Loved the glimpses into the boys' past. And LOL, the day the shot those fireworks? The day my daughter was born!

But OMG, when will they ever give Dean a break? They've been hitting him hard and low for so long. I'm not surprised he's ready to give up. Makes you wonder how much power the devil has to shape people's destiny. It would definitely be in Lucifer's interest to break Michael's vessel. I guess this recurring theme of everybody leaving him will come to play in the end.

I think this is one of those eps I need to re-watch just to take everything in. BTW, I loved the way Spn portrays heaven, where everybody has his niche where they feel at home and happy. I could live with that.

Jeffer
April 2nd, 2010, 04:07 AM
Awesome ep, I absolutely loved the part where Ash told them they had been there before. All the time with shows like this you get into characters that CAN'T lose. That's one of the things that makes this show great. I wonder how many times they have been there and been sent back? I was also hopping that Joe and Ellen were going to be in the bar. It seems that both Castial and Dean are giving. I think that Dean seeing Cas like that really shook him sorta like if an Angel can lose faith what chance do I have.

iolanda
April 2nd, 2010, 05:29 AM
Wow, that was depressing. Can't really say more because I had to sneak away from my nieces to watch it, but I'll have to re-watch this. Jeez. Poor Cas, poor Dean. And poor Sammy. Looks like he is the only one who has still hope that this might end well :(

Arative
April 2nd, 2010, 05:45 AM
I haven't read the bible in a while but isn't there a line in there somewhere about God helps those who help themselves? Or is that just a saying?

I'm not sure what to make of this episode yet. I loved it but there was a lot to digest. The angels seem more like demons than the demons do or at least Lucifer. Zach there is a real dick.

Cas losing faith was pretty powerful and Dean calling God out as an absent father was good too.

Crichiel
April 2nd, 2010, 06:37 AM
THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!! What an outstanding episode!!!! :)

There is no way I am going to do it a disservice by trying to rush my post today when I only have a few minutes. I am going to watch it a few more times this weekend and write it on Monday.

But to let you know just how torturous (in an entertaining way) it was to watch Dean beat down so badly: I got teary during the firework scene. Watching Dean's face as he watched Sam. He was SO happy and content. And why? Because Sammy was happy. Sam being happy has always been so much more important to Dean than his own happiness. It's heartbreaking to see him think so little of himself. :(

So, yes, I welled up a bit at that point.....and that was BEFORE we even got to the part with him trying to cheer up Mary as a little boy, and his gut-wrenching realisation of what Sam's idea of Heaven is!! :( *sniff* :(

LtColCarter
April 2nd, 2010, 06:40 AM
I haven't read the bible in a while but isn't there a line in there somewhere about God helps those who help themselves? Or is that just a saying?

"God helps those who help themselves" is probably the most often quoted phrase that is not found in the Bible. This saying is usually attributed to Ben Franklin, quoted in Poor Richard's Almanac in 1757. In actuality, it originated from Algernon Sydney in 1698 in an article titled Discourses Concerning Government. Whatever the original source of this saying, the Bible teaches the opposite. God helps the helpless! Isaiah 25:4 declares, "For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shade from the heat..." Romans 5:6 tells us, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."

Crichiel
April 2nd, 2010, 08:27 AM
I still don't really believe God is out of it because He doesn't care. I think it's one of two things: 1) Everything that is happening has been predetermined and is all part of His plan. So, He is just letting it play out. Or 2) The Bible tells us that men are still given free will, to make good choices OR bad ones. He isn't there to referee, He is there as a judge to give out the scores when the performances are done.

LoneStar1836
April 2nd, 2010, 08:39 AM
Loved this ep! :) I wasn't too sure about this one when I first heard about it, but it turned out way better than I could imagine. It was so damn sad and depressing, but well written and acted.


BTW, I loved the way Spn portrays heaven, where everybody has his niche where they feel at home and happy. Me too. I really liked their take on it. :)

Loved seeing Ash, and it was a great way to have the character included in the story.

So now we know for certain where Sam went when he first died in All Hell Breaks Loose. I always believed that's where he went (if in fact he went anywhere) even though he was cursed with demon blood. Never once thought he would have been sent to Hell. On some other board a while back, some posters where rather peeved that the show had never commented on where he went and didn't have Sam wonder about it on camera or remember where he had been.


But to let you know just how torturous (in an entertaining way) it was to watch Dean beat down so badly: I got teary during the firework scene. Watching Dean's face as he watched Sam. He was SO happy and content. And why? Because Sammy was happy. Sam being happy has always been so much more important to Dean than his own happiness. It's heartbreaking to see him think so little of himself. :(

So, yes, I welled up a bit at that point.....and that was BEFORE we even got to the part with him trying to cheer up Mary as a little boy, and his gut-wrenching realisation of what Sam's idea of Heaven is!! :( *sniff* :(You weren't the only one. Barely 10 minutes into the ep and it was already making me want to cry with the fireworks scene. That was so sad and happy at the same time. :sheppardanime32: Really effective scene to start off with, especially with the reuse of Bob Dylan's Knockin of Heaven's Door. Will probably be one of the most memorable in the whole show for me. Loved that whole scene.


I don't think that God doesn't care, but that again it's all part of the free will versus fate theme of the show, imo. He is on the side of free will when it comes to man. Seems cruel, and people always question that if God does exist then why does he let all these bad things happen in this world, but that's the harsh consequences of free will...the evil that men do to themselves and the choices that they make. Though in this case I think it's more than a little unfair considering that angles and demons are interfering in the free will of man.


And to that last scene of Dean dropping his necklace in the trash. :( Now that was heartbreaking because for me it had more to do with he and Sam's relationship than anything remotely to do with God. In no way do I fault Sam for the memories he had as his vision of heaven and understand why that's what he chose to see, but it was too much for Dean to accept. Sure all these years, Sam has made it clear why he left Dean and their father, and why he's made certain choices, but I guess deep down Dean still wanted to believe that his brother wanted/needed him in the end, but even in death, Sam was happiest when he wasn't with Dean.


Excellent episode. Certainly one of the best this season, imo.

Heaven
April 2nd, 2010, 09:45 AM
wow WOW
I forgot how brilliant this show can be
heaven was awesome

excellent episode

LizzieAnne
April 2nd, 2010, 11:52 AM
Wow..that was a fantastic ep. I need to have re-watch but my first impression was just how beaten down Dean really is now. That was some harsh stuff he had to endure there. It does make me wonder if some of that was Zach's interference though...well it was with his mother.

Sam was almost along for the ride to witness Dean's misery, although it was interesting to see how he enjoyed his brush with ordinary family life when he was eleven, and I felt that he was being put in an impossible position of having to justify his past decisions when he was a small child and later trying to find a life for himself at college. I don't think he has any reason to apologise for that at all.
I think it shows that Dean's totally broken inside. If he wasn't it wouldn't bother him.Even a parent comes to understand that a child has to break away to grow up. I can't see where it's going to go from here at all with their relationship now. Sam's done everything possible to be a good brother again, since they've gotten back together, but somehow it's not enough.

Love the take on heaven and seeing Pammy and Ash...and Dean did get the kiss which was nice after all his misery.

Like someone said, Sam does seem to be the only one who is trying to think of a way out now as Dean seems dead inside and Cas totally disillusioned.

When Joshua said that God was on Earth it did kind of suggest that we haven't heard the last of him.

And when Dean dropped the necklace in the bin it summed up Dean feelings for everything I reckon especially his feelings for his Dad, God (being deserted by them) and Sam to some extent. The look on Sam's face was heart breaking.

And damn! why did they have to use Knocking on Heaven's Door...the only song guaranteed to make me well up every time I hear it...

LizzieAnne
April 2nd, 2010, 01:23 PM
I still don't really believe God is out of it because He doesn't care. I think it's one of two things: 1) Everything that is happening has been predetermined and is all part of His plan. So, He is just letting it play out. Or 2) The Bible tells us that men are still given free will, to make good choices OR bad ones. He isn't there to referee, He is there as a judge to give out the scores when the performances are done.

I find either of those scenarios chilling. :S I hope that's not the case....either a plaything of the gods or some kind of sport that will be rated at the finish line...and if you're lucky you'll get a reward.

Krisz
April 2nd, 2010, 04:47 PM
This show does it again, what a pull on the old emotions! Music, 'Knocking on Heaven's door'... inspired!, the imagery, and poor old Dean being hauled emotionally over the coals again!

Sam's version of heaven was weird, for some reason it reminded me of the scene in Star Trek's 'Generations' when Picard ended up in the 'nexus', a place where people ended up in their 'happy place' too! He was being called to dinner by the 'family' he never had too!

This show is so amazingly consistent in delivering wonderful surprises and emotional responses, I can't think of another show airing at present that does this other than 'Fringe', which comes close at times though.

Aerilon
April 3rd, 2010, 04:13 AM
I still don't really believe God is out of it because He doesn't care. I think it's one of two things: 1) Everything that is happening has been predetermined and is all part of His plan. So, He is just letting it play out. Or 2) The Bible tells us that men are still given free will, to make good choices OR bad ones. He isn't there to referee, He is there as a judge to give out the scores when the performances are done.By definition, if God isn't there to get in the way of Human free will, then the Angels have no buisness either.

I'm a little sceptical about this whole 'pre-determined' thing. Regardless as to what Gabriel said. If everything had already been decided, then surely the Angels would know about it, as would God, so there would be no need to 'get involved' because nothing could be changed?

Anyway, read one of the episode snips for one coming; it said something about Dean saying yes to Michael, but Michael not taking his body, as the Angels had a new 'game plan'. That being the case, what Gabriel said was a load of rubbish.

iolanda
April 3rd, 2010, 05:22 AM
It would be cool to not be spoiled for upcoming episodes here :(

Aerilon
April 3rd, 2010, 05:53 AM
Anyway, read one of the episode snips for one coming; it said something about Dean saying yes to Michael, but Michael not taking his body, as the Angels had a new 'game plan'. That being the case, what Gabriel said was a load of rubbish.


It would be cool to not be spoiled for upcoming episodes here :(If you're talking about what I wrote, I'd have stopped reading when I got to the text in bold. Sorry if anything has been spoilt for you, but you were the one that continued to read. ;)

iolanda
April 3rd, 2010, 06:08 AM
Please use the spoiler tags. This is not the spoiler-thread and I was just fast reading through this thread, thought to be safe of spoilers and sadly overlooked your warning.

The spoiler tags are there for a reason.

LoneStar1836
April 3rd, 2010, 08:38 AM
If you're talking about what I wrote, I'd have stopped reading when I got to the text in bold. Sorry if anything has been spoilt for you, but you were the one that continued to read. ;)Then I think you need to go back and read the spoiler rules for GateWorld. ;)

Here (http://forum.gateworld.net/faq.php?faq=post_nav#faq_faq_spoilerspace) and here (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=17930). Spoilers for future episodes require a proper spoiler warning unless it's in the appropriate thread.

GW has the spoiler tag function (the exclamation (!) icon). Use it.

Skydiver
April 3rd, 2010, 10:06 AM
The rule is to use spoiler tags for any spoilers NOT in the episode the thread is about.

so please tag your spoilers

Alan Wake
April 3rd, 2010, 10:23 AM
It was a good episode !

Enough said !

iolanda
April 3rd, 2010, 10:31 AM
So, concerning this episode: is god really not interested in an intervention or is it part of his plan for team free will, that this team has to think that they are on their own?

When everything is really predetermined, why fight at all? I am still in for team free will, even if this episode was a heavy setback. Seeing Dean and Cas broken was heartbraking and I just hope that Sam picked up the amulet, I am sure that it will play a part very much later.

One of my "must reads" when it come to rethink about an SPN episode is Maureen Ryans blog at the Chicago Tribune on-line, and you can find her recent blog here (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/04/supernatural-dark-side-moon-cw.html). Inside is a interesting idea: what if heaven wasn't the way it should normally be but it was twisted by Zach? It was his playground at all, and he knows that he has to break the boys to get to his goal. So why not show Dean a side of Sam he is trying to ignore for quite some time, and show Sam how much Dean is clinging on a glorified past which wasn't that good at all, pushing Dean all the way back to be Dads little soldier.

Honestly, I prefer the idea that Zach manipulated the boys road over the idea that there is really nothing in Sams heaven which puts him together with his real family.

On an additional note: it was great to see Pam and Ash and the roadhouse again. Ash was such a great guy and this episode made it clear what we lost when the roadhouse burned down. Also Pamela. And Pam kissing Dean. Really loved that kiss.

So, isn't it really that bad up there? I mean, it's heaven, it's supposed to be great, isn't it?

Alan Wake
April 3rd, 2010, 10:33 AM
I'd really like to see god in human form.

LizzieAnne
April 3rd, 2010, 11:59 AM
So, concerning this episode: I god really not interested in an intervention or is it part of his plan for team free will, that this team has to think that they are on their own?

When everything is really predetermined, why fight at all? I am still in for team free will, even if this episode was a heavy setback. Seeing Dean and Cas broken was heartbraking and I just hope that Sam picked up the amulet, I am sure that it will play a part very much later.

One of my "must reads" when it come to rethink about an SPN episode is Maureen Ryans blog at the Chicago Tribune on-line, and you can find her recent blog here (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/04/supernatural-dark-side-moon-cw.html). Inside is a interesting idea: what if heaven wasn't the way it should normally be but it was twisted by Zach? It was his playground at all, and he knows that he has to break the boys to get to his goal. So why not show Dean a side of Sam he is trying to ignore for quite some time, and show Sam how much Dean is clinging on a glorified past which wasn't that good at all, pushing Dean all the way back to be Dads little soldier.

Honestly, I prefer the idea that Zach manipulated the boys road over the idea that there is really nothing in Sams heaven which puts him together with his real family.

On an additional note: it was great to see Pam and Ash and the roadhouse again. Ash was such a great guy and this episode made it clear what we lost when the roadhouse burned down. Also Pamela. And Pam kissing Dean. Really loved that kiss.

So, isn't it really that bad up there? I mean, it's heaven, it's supposed to be great, isn't it?

Some really good points there.

I like that idea of heaven being twisted by Zach in some way because it makes sense....I need to watch it again ..one watch really isn't enough to pick up all those points but I did have a feeling that things were a bit off there. Pam was a bit too insistent that many people dying wasn't such a bad thing!! And Sam not being able to get any love or comfort from his mother as he had to watch Dean with her...that's not heaven...that's hell for him.

LoneStar1836
April 3rd, 2010, 12:02 PM
One of my "must reads" when it come to rethink about an SPN episode is Maureen Ryans blog at the Chicago Tribune on-line, and you can find her recent blog here (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/04/supernatural-dark-side-moon-cw.html). Inside is a interesting idea: what if heaven wasn't the way it should normally be but it was twisted by Zach? It was his playground at all, and he knows that he has to break the boys to get to his goal. So why not show Dean a side of Sam he is trying to ignore for quite some time, and show Sam how much Dean is clinging on a glorified past which wasn't that good at all, pushing Dean all the way back to be Dads little soldier.

Honestly, I prefer the idea that Zach manipulated the boys road over the idea that there is really nothing in Sams heaven which puts him together with his real family.Thanks again for that link.

Interesting theory raised. I could see that being a possibility...Zak picking and choosing which memories were brought forth, considering that according to Ash people don't generally mingle in each other's heaven, but I'm going to stick with no meddling by Zack. Sure that's the harder pill to swallow, especially for Dean, but I see Sam's point of view, and don't fault him for it. So while he has to have some happy memories of he and his family together, those just weren't the ones at the forefront of his mind. I like the more genuine experience, rather than the possibility that it was manipulated....other than for the nastiness of the last one with their mother saying all those hurtful things when Zack reappeared. Totally believe that was Zach's doing.

the fifth man
April 4th, 2010, 05:26 PM
Thanks again for that link.

Interesting theory raised. I could see that being a possibility...Zak picking and choosing which memories were brought forth, considering that according to Ash people don't generally mingle in each other's heaven, but I'm going to stick with no meddling by Zack. Sure that's the harder pill to swallow, especially for Dean, but I see Sam's point of view, and don't fault him for it. So while he has to have some happy memories of he and his family together, those just weren't the ones at the forefront of his mind. I like the more genuine experience, rather than the possibility that it was manipulated....other than for the nastiness of the last one with their mother saying all those hurtful things when Zack reappeared. Totally believe that was Zach's doing.

Yeah, that was definitely Zach twisting things. That was really evil of him.

Crichiel
April 5th, 2010, 01:03 PM
Here we go…

Let’s start with Dean’s drinking. Holy COW!!! Getting a little excessive? To the point where it’s obviously affecting his hunting skills if those guys can sneak into the room and pull guns on them without Dean waking up. I’ve been waiting for this to come to a head. They’ve mentioned his drinking even more than they've mentioned that he's never really been in love. Spoiler for the next ep:

Probably been brought up a dozen times on the spoiler thread as obvious, or everyone there already knows the meaning, or just my stupid idea, but is the “99” in the title of the next episode a reference to 99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall? Referring to Dean’s drinking and his loss of faith over all?

Hell of an opening, anyway. Nice to bring up hunters being after Sam again, and good shock with how coldly they shoot him.

Firework scene. Again, this scene just KILLS me! :( The look on Dean’s face is just so…parental. You can just see the love for Sammy on his face. I can see why it is so hard for Dean to treat Sam as an equal when he really started life as his ‘mother’!

That the path in heaven for these two would be a road makes beautiful, poetic sense.

Sam’s first memory for heaven threw me for a bit, but once he said what it was, I could understand…this FIRST memory.

I thought it sad that Sam doesn’t think he would ever get to heaven. :(

“Don’t go into the light!” “Ok. Thanks Carol Anne.” :D I laughed at that one!

Um, little upset, Cas? “ You think maybe, just MAYBE we should find out what the HELL God has been saying?!” :S I agree with Dean, “Geez, touchy.” Cas wasn’t THIS disillusioned last time we saw him.

Dean saying prayer is the last hope of a desperate man. He showed us his belief in this statement at the end of My Bloody Valentine when he prayed. And it reinforces just how desperately he’s been trying to hold onto his faith that things will work out. Which makes his total despair at the end totally understandable. He’s now had that final hope yanked away from him. That was all that was keeping him going.

“More Trippy. You apparently…wuv hugs.” ;) Great line delivery, Jared.

Whoa, Samantha Smith looked gorgeous in this one! :eek: This lady looks younger now than she did in the pilot!

Scene with Mary. Wow. Just wow. Again, Dean just transforms into this lost little boy that you just want to hold. From the looks he gives her, to her hand on his head (and him accepting the hand on the head), to the way he wants just that one minute more, even though he KNOWS this isn’t real.

And knowing this isn’t real, he is still so completely devoted to making things better for his family, that even in a memory, he has to go over and comfort her.

“Dad always said they had the perfect marriage.” “It wasn’t perfect until after she died.” If I remember correctly, the clinical name for this is the Halo Effect. Very common human foible that when we lose someone close, we tend to forget the bad times. I like that this was added in here, because it makes John and Mary more human.

The realisation on Sam’s face as he sees Dean playing out his peacekeeper role at SUCH a young age. His comment, “I just never realised how long you’ve been cleaning up Dad’s messes.” Briefly brings up the old, angry Sam again. Angry at John for the way he raised them. So it makes sense that his next memory in heaven would be a time away from John.

Sam’s memories. This is a tricky one. Sam can’t be blamed for what he couldn’t control. But I also don’t think I agree that he has NOTHING to apologise for. The way he views family…Dean can’t HELP but take this personally!

Yes, it probably was a good thing for Sam to get away from John…but not to cut off Dean as well. Yes, a parents want the child to eventually go out into the world on their own…but not to leave in anger and cut the them off! Sam was so self-focused on getting himself out of a bad situation, that Dean, who raised him, who gave everything he had (and then some) to Sam’s happiness…didn’t even enter Sam’s thoughts when he decided to leave.

And you can see it. THIS is what kills Dean. That Dean was worried Sam was dead, had to face John’s wrath when Sam disappeared, but what does Sam say,? “Dean, look. I’m sorry. I never thought about it like that.” Exactly. He never thought about Dean. Sam (and John and Mary when they were alive) is ALL that Dean thinks about. It's one thing if Sam had thought, "I know this will be hard on Dean, too. But it's something I need to do." But, to not even THINK of Dean? Sam doesn’t see that when he “finally got away from Dad.”, he also abandoned Dean by default.

Again, I KNOW this is a tricky subject, because it Sam isn't WRONG, per se. It's not his fault he feels this way. You don't get to choose your feelings. When he says that he didn’t get his PB&J, he doesn’t say it in anger, he says it very matter-of-fact. This is how it was for HIM and it's WHY he doesn't feel that family attachment as strongly as Dean. And you can see he wants to spare Dean further agony, because he tries to get him away before he realizes what this memory is…but still.

So his point is valid, “I don’t look at family the way you do.” But you can feel the knife in Dean’s heart in his response, “Yeah, but I’m your family.” As I think one of you said, deep down I think Dean always believed/hoped that Sam felt as strongly about family as he did. But here in heaven, where you are shown the truth of your feelings, he sees once and for all that that isn't true. That’s a killing blow for him.

Ash and Pam in heaven. I like that Ash’s heaven is the Roadhouse. Having Pamela in the scene was disjointed to me. To me, it smacked of “which guest star is available?” It would have been more memorable for me had it been Ellen or Jo or half a dozen other people. But, they work with what they got. *shrug*

I did love the, “If it makes you feel any better, we got Ash killed, too” “I’m cool with it!” :P

Like Dean, I find the idea of walking through old memories alone in your own heaven lonely. And when Pamela started trying to convince Dean about what would the worst scenario be if he said ‘yes’ to Michael, she made sense, but I was starting to wonder if she was Zachariah in disguise. Trying to trick him again.

Pamela kissing Dean. Huh. I always got the impression she had more of a thing for Sam. She was always commenting on his bum!

Back at the house with ‘Mary’. Nice way to slide in YED. Ewwww, to Mary and Zach. Poor Dean AGAIN!! Jump in any time here, Sam, while she is verbally abusing your brother!

Zachariah getting so ticked about his turn of events the past couple years. Interesting because I just watched It’s a Terrible Life on Saturday. He seemed so calm and in control there! Amazing what a short time with the Winchesters will do to you! ;) I gotta say, though, I am surprised he’s still trying to ‘help’ Michael’s side of the war. I can’t imagine God or Michael will be too happy with his methods!

LOVE Joshua. Great character, wonderful actor choice.

Hee hee. Botanical garden. One of the few Vancouver sites that Supernatural HADN’T used, yet.

That Joshua believes that maybe God “just doesn’t think it’s his problem”. As I already said, I don’t think I buy that. Nice to have the black and white answer to how they got on the plane, and how Castiel came back, though, instead of just guesses.

The look of pity on both Joshua’s and Sam’s faces when Joshua is talking to Dean about how he is losing faith. Very sad.

Back in the room. SAM having to say they have to have hope. And you can see him trying so hard to make it up to Dean, and what he said about family when he passionately insists, “We’ll find it. You and me. We’ll find it.”

But it is too little, too late. Dean might have bought it before their jaunt to heaven, but not anymore. Even if Sam means is NOW, Dean is too despondent to believe it.

The amulet. :(:(:( The look on Sam’s face when Dean throws it away says it all, Dean is well and truly broken.

starg8fans
April 6th, 2010, 01:01 AM
Just two quick notes, I'm on borrowed internet time here...

I don't think Zach manipulated the whole 'heaven' thing, but I'm pretty sure about Mary Winchester, for two reasons. 1) Ash said Mary and John couldn't be found anywhere in heaven, and 2) the way Zach just 'snipped' Mary away. I'm kinda undecided about Pamela. Trying to convince Dean to say 'yes' to Michael seemed a bit off - while the kiss was definitely vintage the psychic we met in 'Lazarus Rising'.

As for the spoiler in Crichiel's post, I think it refers more to the fact thatit's the 99th episode.

Crichiel
April 6th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Just two quick notes, I'm on borrowed internet time here...

I don't think Zach manipulated the whole 'heaven' thing, but I'm pretty sure about Mary Winchester, for two reasons. 1) Ash said Mary and John couldn't be found anywhere in heaven, and 2) the way Zach just 'snipped' Mary away. I'm kinda undecided about Pamela. Trying to convince Dean to say 'yes' to Michael seemed a bit off - while the kiss was definitely vintage the psychic we met in 'Lazarus Rising'.

As for the spoiler in Crichiel's post, I think it refers more to the fact thatit's the 99th episode.

Ahhhh (concerning the spoiler)I figured that everyone who goes through the spoiler thread on a regular basis probably already knew what the title meant! (and that my idea was totally off the wall! :) It was just funny because when I saw all the beer bottles 'on the wall' at the beginning of the episode, the song popped into my head and it reminded me of the episode title. It makes sense with it being the 99th episode, though.

I never REALLY thought that Pamela WAS Zachariah. But her spiel sure sounded like something Zachariah would argue, didn't it?...although...if it WAS Zachariah, that would explain how he was able to mess up Ash's trick to shortcut the boys to the garden, if he was sitting right there, listening in...but then I'd hate to be Ash if Zachariah decides to punish him for helping the boys...but would God allow an angel to punish someone in heaven?...but Zachariah was basically torturing the boys in heaven...but but but.....my head hurts. :S