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DigiFluid
February 19th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Splitting off from the scifi/videogames discussion thread because we've totally derailed it (:p) I'm starting this thread so we can continue discussion of the Mass Effect universe. I think there's more than enough material to justify some pretty excellent discussion all around, so have at it!

2157
Mass Effect: Evolution (comic series)
Mass Effect: Revelation (novel by Drew Karpyshyn)

2183
Mass Effect
Mass Effect: Ascension (novel by Drew Karpyshyn)
Mass Effect 2 (intro mission)

2184
Mass Effect: Galaxy (mobile game)
Mass Effect: Redemption (comic series)

2185
Mass Effect: Incursion (comic one-shot)
Mass Effect 2

2186
Mass Effect: Retribution (novel by Drew Karpyshyn)
Mass Effect: Inquisition (comic one-shot)

TBD
Mass Effect 3 (scheduled for Holiday 2011 release)


And just for the lulz, my favourite part in ME2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjIcFATxrus

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 19th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Splitting off from the scifi/videogames discussion thread because we've totally derailed it (:p) I'm starting this thread so we can continue discussion of the Mass Effect universe. I think there's more than enough material to justify some pretty excellent discussion all around, so have at it!

2157 - Mass Effect: Revelation (novel by Drew Karpyshyn)
2183 - Mass Effect (Xbox 360 / PC)
2183 - Mass Effect: Ascension (novel by Drew Karpyshyn)
2184 - Mass Effect: Galaxy (mobile game)
2184 - Mass Effect: Redemption (comic series)
2185 - Mass Effect 2 (Xbox 360 / PC)
2186 - Mass Effect: Retribution (novel by Drew Karpyshyn, forthcoming on July 27, 2010)


And just for the lulz, my favourite part in ME2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjIcFATxrus

I do love that moment, but then the entire game is packed with great moments. Looking forward to the new Mass Effect novel as well, more illusive man is good.

Oranos
February 19th, 2010, 06:25 PM
Well done. Legion approves of this thread with a little dance.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwzoedQ_ZQ8

DigiFluid
February 19th, 2010, 06:27 PM
OMG! I didn't have that happen in my game, that's hilarious :D

I really need to get around to reading the books. It's such a wonderfully rich universe. In 3 years BioWare has managed to fashion a universe as vibrant and in-depth as even the best of sci-fi EUs.

Replicator Todd
February 19th, 2010, 06:29 PM
There is a comic series?! *goes to Amazon*

I loved the first Mass Effect, I still own it and completed every single bit of it(as well as every achievement :o). But I may never play the 2nd cause I don't buy games anymore.....maybe in the future.

The Mass Effect series is such a great piece of Sci-Fi, it MUST be made into a series/movie IMO.

Oranos
February 19th, 2010, 06:30 PM
OMG! I didn't have that happen in my game, that's hilarious :D

Yeah. If Legion is idle long enough, he starts 'busting out his moves.'

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 19th, 2010, 06:32 PM
The Mass Effect series is such a great piece of Sci-Fi, it MUST be made into a series/movie IMO.

No! At least not the main story because that would lose much of the point of the Mass Effect games. The games universe is so dependent on your own actions and the choices you make that the state of the galaxy and the status of characters in two different peoples games can be totally different. You just don't get that in film or tv.

DigiFluid
February 19th, 2010, 06:33 PM
There is a comic series?! *goes to Amazon*
Sort of.... It's a tie-in series between ME1 and 2. It's supposed to be 4 issues long, and I believe at the moment there's just the two out--the first one is (or was) free on iTunes and came with the collector's edition of ME2, and the second is up for sale.


I loved the first Mass Effect, I still own it and completed every single bit of it(as well as every achievement :o)
Hey no self-pity/self-deprecation over that, I did it too :p


But I may never play the 2nd cause I don't buy games anymore.....maybe in the future.
Do it....asap. It came out in January and I immediately decided it was game of the year. Something really unbelievably spectacular is going to have to come along to change that!

Replicator Todd
February 19th, 2010, 06:35 PM
No! At least not the main story because that would lose much of the point of the Mass Effect games. The games universe is so dependent on your own actions and the choices you make that the state of the galaxy and the status of characters in two different peoples games can be totally different. You just don't get that in film or tv.

Definitely not involving Command Sheppard. There is so much material to have it made into a series IMO.

Oranos
February 19th, 2010, 06:36 PM
No! At least not the main story because that would lose much of the point of the Mass Effect games.

Something like the First Contact War would probably work though. It's only briefly touched upon in "Revelation."

Replicator Todd
February 19th, 2010, 06:39 PM
Sort of.... It's a tie-in series between ME1 and 2. It's supposed to be 4 issues long, and I believe at the moment there's just the two out--the first one is (or was) free on iTunes and came with the collector's edition of ME2, and the second is up for sale.


Hey no self-pity/self-deprecation over that, I did it too :p


Do it....asap. It came out in January and I immediately decided it was game of the year. Something really unbelievably spectacular is going to have to come along to change that!

I migth play through the first again, and see my...multiple Shepards. I had a good one(my main one) that made mostly good decisions, my bad one(which I called Evil Shepard. :P), and a female one I don't think I finished.

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 19th, 2010, 06:43 PM
Something like the First Contact War would probably work though. It's only briefly touched upon in "Revelation."

That would work and the universe is rich enough to make plenty of movies, books and tv shows out of it. Trying to adapt the plot of the games though I think would be foolish.

DigiFluid
February 19th, 2010, 06:53 PM
I migth play through the first again, and see my...multiple Shepards. I had a good one(my main one) that made mostly good decisions, my bad one(which I called Evil Shepard. :P), and a female one I don't think I finished.
Not bad, it took me 4.5 (or so) playthroughs to get all the achievements.

I usually play as the paragon nice guy the first time, but then it's a lot more fun to be renegade just so you can be a total jerk to everyone :D

Replicator Todd
February 19th, 2010, 06:57 PM
Not bad, it took me 4.5 (or so) playthroughs to get all the achievements.

I usually play as the paragon nice guy the first time, but then it's a lot more fun to be renegade just so you can be a total jerk to everyone :D

Oh I have them all, I just like to replay the game with different choices. Seeing how they can carry over into ME2, I want every character to be able to be moved over.

Oranos
February 19th, 2010, 06:59 PM
I migth play through the first again, and see my...multiple Shepards. I had a good one(my main one) that made mostly good decisions, my bad one(which I called Evil Shepard. :P), and a female one I don't think I finished.

Why does everyone think Renegade means bad or evil? It's neither. We Renegades are all about the ends justifying the means. We're going to get the job done at any cost.

I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.

Replicator Todd
February 19th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Why does everyone think Renegade means bad or evil? It's neither. We Renegades are all about the ends justifying the means. We're going to get the job done at any cost.

I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.

I try to have an un-military view on things. I call the Evil character evil because he has a scar on his face, and he is bald! The normal evil sci-fi character! :D

DigiFluid
February 19th, 2010, 07:14 PM
I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.
I think that's a perfect example of the great moral conundrums that BioWare can write. If it were me (IRL), I don't think I could handle letting the innocents die. Balak is just one of many Batarian terrorists, he goes down and another will just take his place and innocent lives would have been lost for nothing.

Just my take though. In-game, it's a lot of fun to just say "you're not leaving here alive" :D

Oranos
February 19th, 2010, 07:24 PM
I think that's a perfect example of the great moral conundrums that BioWare can write. If it were me (IRL), I don't think I could handle letting the innocents die. Balak is just one of many Batarian terrorists, he goes down and another will just take his place and innocent lives would have been lost for nothing.

Yup.

However, the Renegade way--though you wouldn't know this till after--allows you to capture and interrogate. You could ultimately end up saving even more lives with what Balak knows.

Either way, not an easy decision. And you can justify it either way.

But my Shepard is a Colonist (about an even mix of Renegade and Paragon). Which pretty much made my decision easy.


Just my take though. In-game, it's a lot of fun to just say "you're not leaving here alive" :D

Personally, my Shepard enjoyed putting a few rounds in the guy. And then leaving him for the Alliance.

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 20th, 2010, 04:50 AM
Why does everyone think Renegade means bad or evil? It's neither. We Renegades are all about the ends justifying the means. We're going to get the job done at any cost.

I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.

I'd agree renegade actions aren't bad, its more the way I see it paragon are "heroic selfless actions" while renegade are often more pragmatic "ends justify the means" actions. I think Mass Effect 2 got really good at this, for instance the mechanic working on the gunship in Omega is a perfect example, yes it's not very heroic to stab the guy in the back with an electro prod thingie, but in the end it's extremely helpful when you have a gunship bearing down on your position that it hasn't been repaired fully.

There are some great moral conundrums in the Mass Effect games and normally my Shepard racks up plenty of both paragon and renegade. Though occasionally I think it falls down, like the choice with whether to brainwash the heretic geth on Legions mission. You get renegade points for blowing them up rather than essentially brainwashing them, but I thought it was more moral to do that rather than erode their free will and sentience.

Oranos
February 20th, 2010, 11:55 AM
I'd agree renegade actions aren't bad, its more the way I see it paragon are "heroic selfless actions" while renegade are often more pragmatic "ends justify the means" actions. I think Mass Effect 2 got really good at this, for instance the mechanic working on the gunship in Omega is a perfect example, yes it's not very heroic to stab the guy in the back with an electro prod thingie, but in the end it's extremely helpful when you have a gunship bearing down on your position that it hasn't been repaired fully.

That gunship can be an absolute beast on insanity if you leave the merc be (from what I hear). No, I decided to make life easy on Mordin, Miranda, Archangel, and myself in that situation. I usually do with most of those type of Renegade choices.


There are some great moral conundrums in the Mass Effect games and normally my Shepard racks up plenty of both paragon and renegade.

There are. I think the one that stands out--in the sense that the Renegade should have been approached differently--is the Rachni Queen.

My "main" Shepard approached it from the standpoint that the queen couldn't be trusted. Given all the facts and historical data, the species is a major threat. Their population could and would explode in a very short time (maybe months or just a couple of years). He just couldn't risk releasing the queen and having to fight a war on two fronts.

I would have liked a more remorseful way to off the queen, however. The "I'm sorry, I just can't risk letting you go free," option would have been nice to see. Even if it was a neutral option instead.


Though occasionally I think it falls down, like the choice with whether to brainwash the heretic geth on Legions mission. You get renegade points for blowing them up rather than essentially brainwashing them, but I thought it was more moral to do that rather than erode their free will and sentience.

Then sometimes we get situations like these. Where they both seem like Renegade choices.

But on that note, the Paragons seem to have gone a little darker in this game. So maybe a more "Renegade" choice is apt.

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 20th, 2010, 12:30 PM
I think the morality system is a standout point of the Mass Effect games, not only as a videogame device but also just as good sci-fi. Good science fiction stories should make us ask questions, is it better to spare our enemies by brainwashing them or do we give them the dignity of dying with their free will intact. That is what I feel makes the Mass Effect games not just excellent games bu7t also great sci-fi stories.

Daedalus-304
February 20th, 2010, 11:53 PM
I beat Mass Effect 2 with one of my Paragon characters and playing through on Renegade currently. Also by a strange coincidence my Renegade Shepard looks like Wesker from Resident Evil (I played through Mass Effect 1 before playing any Resident Evil games), and now looks like him even more with the glowing red eyes. I usually prefer to play as Paragon, but love some of the Renegade dialog:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L3x3ig1A8Y&feature=related

I do like how in this game, how it's not like the first where everything was organic vs. synthetic with all A.I.'s and machines being evil. Mass Effect 2 has two ally machine characters, EDI and Legion, not only that, Shepard is now a Cyborg. The Illusive Man is an awesome character, some of the best voice acting ever in a video game.

So what is everyone opinion on some of the choices:


For the Geth I rewrote them, I'm thinking they will help in the third game.

In the end, do you destroy the base, or keep it. I chose to destroy it because it's Reaper technology, it probably causes indoctrination or the Reapers could still use it somehow to their advantage.



There is a comic series?! *goes to Amazon*


There's probably going to be hardcover volume with all four comics released later on, like they did with the Halo and Gears of War comics. I'm going to wait for that before getting it. I downloaded the first one the day it was free but can't use it because I don't have an Ipod touch.



My "main" Shepard approached it from the standpoint that the queen couldn't be trusted. Given all the facts and historical data, the species is a major threat. Their population could and would explode in a very short time (maybe months or just a couple of years). He just couldn't risk releasing the queen and having to fight a war on two fronts.


Spoilers for Mass Effect 2:

If you let the queen live, you get a message from her on the asari planet. The conversation strongly implies the Rachi were indoctrinated by the Reapers, and the Reapers were behind the whole war.


Oh, here is another great Mass Effect 2 video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PjTuSQNLI4&feature=related

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 21st, 2010, 04:03 AM
You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it :D

Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining :P

Oranos
February 21st, 2010, 10:27 AM
So what is everyone opinion on some of the choices:


For the Geth I rewrote them, I'm thinking they will help in the third game.

In the end, do you destroy the base, or keep it. I chose to destroy it because it's Reaper technology, it probably causes indoctrination or the Reapers could still use it somehow to their advantage.


Ditto on the Geth. Same on the base. But I really think the latter decision is going to come back to bite me in the @$$. I don't know why, just a hunch.


Spoilers for Mass Effect 2:

If you let the queen live, you get a message from her on the asari planet. The conversation strongly implies the Rachi were indoctrinated by the Reapers, and the Reapers were behind the whole war.


Completely irrelevant. That is so-called proof that you do not have when you first encounter the Rachni Queen on Noveria. Given all the evidence and facts up to that first meeting, it's pretty much insane to keep her alive. This is an extremely dangerous race that almost defeated the Council. Only the Krogan stopped them--and that's a race that can no longer outbreed them. Could you imagine just having to fight the Rachni and the Reapers? That'd be an absolute nightmare of epic proportions.

There are some hints in the first conversation with her. But again, it comes down to trust. And whether you can risk it. The way I play my Shepard, he can't.

Besides, it's worth killing the queen for this conversation alone:

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.
Turian Councilor: Commander! You are addressing a member of the Council. You will show the proper respect!


Oh, here is another great Mass Effect 2 video:


Yes, I quite like that video (and have had it as part of my favorites for a while now).

Replicator Todd
February 21st, 2010, 11:32 AM
You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it :D

Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining :P

Indeed, Claudia has exploded into video games, she did an excellent job on Uncharted 2 from what I heard.

Daedalus-304
February 21st, 2010, 11:56 AM
You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it :D

I prefer playing on Paragon, it's much better helping people out rather than being a jerk, I only played Renegade in the first one to get an achievement. I'm also surprised no one called you out over that too, I was expected him to say slightly different things in each store, rather than the same line over and over again. Speaking of Citadel stores, anyone find the game salesman hilarious?



Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining :P

I actually didn't even recognize it was her until I saw her name in the credits, I didn't even hear she was going to be in the game before.



Besides, it's worth killing the queen for this conversation alone:

Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.
Turian Councilor: Commander! You are addressing a member of the Council. You will show the proper respect!


Yes, that is a great line.

For the Rachni, I can see wiping them out, I just couldn't do it. It would be interesting if in the third game they turned out to be hostile, showing a negative outcome of a "Paragon" action of letting them live.

Oranos
February 21st, 2010, 12:16 PM
I actually didn't even recognize it was her until I saw her name in the credits, I didn't even hear she was going to be in the game before.

I was amused that both Morrigan and Loghain had infiltrated the Quarian fleet. ;)


Yes, that is a great line.

I love all the Renegade conversations with that Turian (and that was one of the reasons I spared the Council). Another good one, if I remember correctly:

Turian Councilor: I believe you humans have a saying. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Shepard: We humans have another saying. Go to hell.

And telling the Council, in the second game, to 'screw themselves' when they offer you your Spectre status back is so worth it.


For the Rachni, I can see wiping them out, I just couldn't do it. It would be interesting if in the third game they turned out to be hostile, showing a negative outcome of a "Paragon" action of letting them live.

I'll laugh when they get indoctrinated again and turn on you.

To be fair, you Paragons have already had some negative outcomes. You let bad guys go free. Elnora, for example.

Found these. They're pretty funny. Check them out:

http://bleedingcrow.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-Consensus-Achieved-154121898

http://bleedingcrow.deviantart.com/art/Mass-Effect-Got-a-Minute-154834447

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 21st, 2010, 12:28 PM
Indeed, Claudia has exploded into video games, she did an excellent job on Uncharted 2 from what I heard.
She really is in a lot of a list titles recnetly, form Crysis, to Uncharted 2, to the Bioware games. I hope maybe she convinces some more Stargate talent to do voices for the games, I mean Mass Effect 2 had scifi talent by the truckload doing the voicies and it would be cool if they added some more stargate Alumini to Mass Effect 3.

I prefer playing on Paragon, it's much better helping people out rather than being a jerk, I only played Renegade in the first one to get an achievement. I'm also surprised no one called you out over that too, I was expected him to say slightly different things in each store, rather than the same line over and over again. Speaking of Citadel stores, anyone find the game salesman hilarious?


I like helping people in my games, but at the same time I enjoy gunning down all the bad guys and screw any of that forgiveness crap :D So that means in both Mass Effect games my Shepard usually ends up with a full paragon bar with plenty of renegade on the side. I like to think of it as playing it Bauer style. :P

gotthammer
February 21st, 2010, 12:44 PM
She really is in a lot of a list titles recnetly, form Crysis, to Uncharted 2, to the Bioware games. I hope maybe she convinces some more Stargate talent to do voices for the games, I mean Mass Effect 2 had scifi talent by the truckload doing the voicies and it would be cool if they added some more stargate Alumini to Mass Effect 3.

Ya. More CB would be nice. :D
Aside from her, only Adam Baldwin has been on SG, right (for ME2, that is)? Also, other than Admiral Xen, who else did she voice (I think it's already certain that she did the voice for the Rachni-Asari, but what about the Asari bartender?)?

edit:
on a more 'technical' note: re: ME1: did anyone experience a 'slowdown'/more 'sluggish' game after installing the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC? I seem to recall it running smoother prior to the DLC's installation...

Oranos
February 21st, 2010, 01:32 PM
on a more 'technical' note: re: ME1: did anyone experience a 'slowdown'/more 'sluggish' game after installing the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC? I seem to recall it running smoother prior to the DLC's installation...

The only problem I remembered having was that the landscape on Therum turned completely black. But that was an easy fix. Other than that, no, no problems.

DigiFluid
February 21st, 2010, 01:36 PM
I had none of those problems, on the 360 version.

gotthammer
February 21st, 2010, 01:44 PM
I had none of those problems, on the 360 version.

Nyehehehe. *sigh* Well, it's one of the 'cons' of gaming on a PC. :P
(tho' the biggest 'con', at least on my end, would be that time when I'm looking at the latest price list for PC components...)

DigiFluid
February 21st, 2010, 01:49 PM
I got the 360 release because, at the time, my PC couldn't handle ME. Now I have a new PC, but I wanted to import my ME1 savegames so I stuck with 360 for ME2. *shrug*

Oranos
February 21st, 2010, 02:06 PM
I had none of those problems, on the 360 version.

It's too bad; my "problem" was kind of fun. I tried driving around on the surface of Therum like that just for kicks. Apparently, however, the Mako doesn't do so well when you drive it into black lava. :p

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 22nd, 2010, 03:17 AM
It's too bad; my "problem" was kind of fun. I tried driving around on the surface of Therum like that just for kicks. Apparently, however, the Mako doesn't do so well when you drive it into black lava. :p

The pc version is better, looks great, runs pretty smoothly on most computers. I even got Mass Effect to run on my crummy laptop and it still looked pretty good. Dunno if that would work with Mass Effect 2 though .

gotthammer
February 22nd, 2010, 03:39 AM
The pc version is better, looks great, runs pretty smoothly on most computers. I even got Mass Effect to run on my crummy laptop and it still looked pretty good. Dunno if that would work with Mass Effect 2 though .

It should, I think. I mean, as I may have mentioned in another thread, ME2 runs much more smoothly than ME1 for me (again, tho', I kinda feel the BDtS DLC, or the patch that comes w/ it, may be at 'fault' *shrugs*).

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 22nd, 2010, 08:19 AM
It should, I think. I mean, as I may have mentioned in another thread, ME2 runs much more smoothly than ME1 for me (again, tho', I kinda feel the BDtS DLC, or the patch that comes w/ it, may be at 'fault' *shrugs*).

I dunno it ran smoothly on my laptop even with Bring Down the Sky installed.

gotthammer
February 25th, 2010, 09:28 AM
Just to bump this thread...

Soooo....who likes Tali? :D
*ducks for cover*

On a more 'serious' note: still no word on the Hammerhead?

DigiFluid
February 25th, 2010, 09:42 AM
Soooo....who likes Tali? :D
*ducks for cover*
The Tali romance was....interesting. Heh


On a more 'serious' note: still no word on the Hammerhead?
Still no word on that. No word on the new character yet either :(

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 10:18 AM
Just to bump this thread...

Soooo....who likes Tali? :D
*ducks for cover*

Can't we talk about that Turian bad@$$, Garrus Vakarian instead? Or Miranda Lawson?

It just feels wrong talking about my Shep's "little sister" behind her back. :p


On a more 'serious' note: still no word on the Hammerhead?

http://twitter.com/biofeed

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Just to bump this thread...

Soooo....who likes Tali? :D
*ducks for cover*

On a more 'serious' note: still no word on the Hammerhead?

I really like Tali, Mass Effect 2 really expanded her character. Then again Mass Effect 2 is so jam packed with brillinat characters I could go on and on about all of them. I'm a big Thane and Garrus fan as well, both of them are so awsome.

s09119
February 25th, 2010, 01:00 PM
I really like Tali, Mass Effect 2 really expanded her character. Then again Mass Effect 2 is so jam packed with brillinat characters I could go on and on about all of them. I'm a big Thane and Garrus fan as well, both of them are so awsome.

I loved all the characters, even the ones I thought I'd hate. I ended up leaving Liara (wow she got scary) for Miranda (who is such a sweetheart ones you warm off her Ice Queen-ness), but even then, it was tough to turn down Jack (once her problems were solved) and Tali (who is just so innocent and adorable).

Favorite moment ever though; Joker and EDI in the AI core. "I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees." *horrified stare*
...that is a joke."

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 03:24 PM
Favorite moment ever though; Joker and EDI in the AI core. "I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees." *horrified stare*
...that is a joke."

Probably my favourite moment as well. Now for some Mass Effect 2 soundtrack awsomeness :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2z28mutY1E

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 03:46 PM
Favorite moment ever though; Joker and EDI in the AI core. "I enjoy the sight of humans on their knees." *horrified stare*
...that is a joke."

Yes! :D

"Great. See, this is where it starts, and when we're all just organic batteries, guess who they'll blame? This is all Joker's fault. What a tool he was. I have to spend all day computing pi because he plugged in the Overlord."

guppy338
February 25th, 2010, 04:32 PM
i think saveing the racni queen will pay off with a army to fight the reapers

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 04:47 PM
i think saveing the racni queen will pay off with a army to fight the reapers

I agree, indeed it's signposted in Mass Effect 2, pretty awesome moment.

Skydiver
February 25th, 2010, 04:51 PM
Let's try to not be crude please :)

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 05:02 PM
i think saveing the racni queen will pay off with a army to fight the reapers

I'll laugh when they get indoctrinated again and turn on you. :p

I'll stick with an army that hasn't proven to have weak willpower. ;)

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 05:02 PM
Let's try to not be crude please :)

Uh oh, could spell trouble with any discussion over Jack (or Kelly, she seems to like, really like everyone on the ship). :P Anyway we will try and keep the smut down :D


I'll laugh when they get indoctrinated again and turn on you. :p

I'll stick with an army that hasn't proven to have weak willpower. ;)

Boo nasty renegade. :P Though I must confess a secret addiction to punching reporters in the face.

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 05:04 PM
Uh oh, could spell trouble with any discussion over Jack (or Kelly, she seems to like, really like everyone on the ship). :P Anyway we will try and keep the smut down :D

Damnit. Does this mean I can't make jokes about what these two probably did with that blasted Varren? :(

I had some good scale-itch comments ready to work with. :p

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 05:07 PM
Damnit. Does this mean I can't make jokes about what these two probably did with that blasted Varren? :(

I had some good scale-itch comments ready to work with. :p

Yuh that might fall outside the pg limits of the forum:eek: As Mordin said "Implications are unpleasant" :P

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 05:09 PM
Yuh that might fall outside the pg limits of the forum:eek: As Mordin said "Implications are unpleasant" :P

And Mordin knows best. ;)

And now the moment you've all been waiting for!

http://masseffect.bioware.com/info/cerberus/

You can green me when you're done drooling. :p

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 05:15 PM
And Mordin knows best. ;)

And now the moment you've all been waiting for!

http://masseffect.bioware.com/info/cerberus/

You can green me when you're done drooling. :p

Formum won't let me green you at the moment. Have some mental green :D. Hammerhead looks sweet, hope it handles better than the Mako though. On other note was anyone a little disappointed with Zaeed? Yes his mission was cool, but he wasn't as well developed as the other characters and as a result stuck out like a sore thumb.

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Formum won't let me green you at the moment. Have some mental green :D.

Bummer. Guess I'll just have to wait for the Kasumi announcement (and beat everyone to that).


Hammerhead looks sweet, hope it handles better than the Mako though.

But. It. Hovers. That just makes everything better. :p


On other note was anyone a little disappointed with Zaeed? Yes his mission was cool, but he wasn't as well developed as the other characters and as a result stuck out like a sore thumb.

I never really liked him, never really talked to him, and never brought him with me. No, no. Scratch that. Damn loyalty mission.

How bad was it?

I'm actually not sure who I disliked more. Zaeed or Jack.

gotthammer
February 25th, 2010, 05:31 PM
i think saving the rachni queen will pay off with a army to fight the reapers

I'm more interested in what I can do with the Geth. I really hope there will be a path/option to help Admiral Xen 'repossess' the Geth for the Quarians. :D
(and I stand by my comments, here and on BW's boards: I'd like to trade in Tali and/or Grunt for either Kal "Animal Mother" Reegar or Admiral Morrigan :D )
Oh, and I want a bigger ship w/ a bar w/ the asari matriarch from Illium as bartender. :D
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1273320/1 :valaanime06:

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 25th, 2010, 05:34 PM
I never really liked him, never really talked to him, and never brought him with me. No, no. Scratch that. Damn loyalty mission.

How bad was it?

I'm actually not sure who I disliked more. Zaeed or Jack.

Well I found Jack a useful character in that despite the fact that Cerberus was playing nice in Mass Effect 2 her story emphasised how nasty they were. On the other hand I probably wouldn't have shed a tear if she had died on my suicide mission, especially after I had managed to get everyone through alive and everyone else had extensive conversations with her, the only response from her I got was "f*** off". Charming.

gotthammer
February 25th, 2010, 06:05 PM
I liked Zaeed from what little of him I've seen, but I was quite disappointed. I wish he had dialogue options...

Any of you regularly brought along Miranda for the sole purpose of trying to see what the Cerberus PoV would be? I usually had her and Tali as my 'regular' group (kinda wish there could be a 4th member...would've brought Mordin more often, then)

As for Jack: I don't recall using her...(I did all the loyalty missions in my 1st playthrough tho', but that was kinda it) Yeah, her character was quite abrasive, but I don't think that was the reason I didn't use her. *shrugs*

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 06:16 PM
From the other thread--carrying the conversation over to here.


1. There's a difference between unexplored and uninhabited. I said that the Terminus system was unexplored not uninhabited. Notice how I made the comparison between the Terminus system and the Delphic Expanse. The Delphic Expanse wasn't uninhabited either. In fact, it was heavily populated by a ton of different races, however it was largely unexplored by Starfleet, just like how Terminus was largely unexplored by the Alliance.

Explain to me exactly. Because I'm really not following you right now (though this may be overload from my midterms). How is Terminus unexplored? It's well mapped--something that requires exploration.


For someone who claims to know a lot about ME, you sure are getting a lot of facts wrong. The Alliance fleet isn't even close to the power of Turians. The Turians were simply overconfident during the first contact war. They thought that they had defeated most of the human forces when they bombarded the Shanxi colony. They didn't know about earth so they were surprised when the Second Fleet came to liberate Shanxi. If the Council hadn't stepped in to end the conflict the Turians would have wiped the humans out. Even during the events of the games, humans still had the weakest fleet. The Alliance only has 8 dreadnoughts while the Salarians have 16, the Asari have 20, and the Turians have the most with 39.

As of the first game, the Alliance Fleet is considered to rival the Turian's own. Not necessarily in numbers--you're right, the Turians have a distinct advantage in dreadnoughts--but that doesn't change facts. You seem to think dreadnoughts are the defining factor, which is a ridiculous notion. There's other factors that play into having a powerful fleet.

In fact, as of "Ascension," the Alliance Fleet is the most powerful.


How were the Geth not mysterious? Their appearance in ME1 was the first time they came out of the Perseus Veil in 300 years. As for Saren, he's a freakin' Spectre! Spectres are the Special Tactics and Reconnaissance branch of the Citadel. Saying that Spectres aren't mysterious is like saying that Delta Force or the CIA aren't mysterious.

Geth? Go talk to the nearest Quarian. They can tell you just about everything you want to know about them. Their history, how they work. Did you miss all the conversations with Tali'Zorah?

As for Saren, all his records may be classified, but only as a Spectre. And he's very well known. How he operates on the job, why he thinks the way he does. Saren’s the best and everyone knows it. Just because you’re special forces doesn’t make you an unknown quantity. Seriously, when a Spectre goes in, everyone knows. It’s why the Council makes use of the Salarian STG. It’s a far less pretentious deployment.


Did you not notice that I was making a comparison with Star Trek? The Vulcans sort of helped Archer too but it was up to the Enterprise and Starfleet to do most of the heavy lifting in dealing with the major threats. It's the same thing with the Council, they kind of help but it was Shepard and the Alliance that had to make the greatest sacrifices.

Considering Shepard is part of the Council—as a Spectre—saying they don’t provide assistance is illogical at best. Spectres operate under Council command, not Alliance command. It's why you can tell Hackett and Mikhailovich to stuff it. And why would a Spectre get a ton of help in the first place? They're the guys that deal with the major threats (and they've always done it on their own). And when one of their own goes rogue, only a Spectre is up to the challenge of bringing that individual down.

Furthermore, based on the assistance of the 3rd Infiltration Regiment, it's logical to conclude that Council is utilizing other resources to follow up other leads. They just don't turn up any relevant information to help you.


I may have been mistaken about that. However, it is ridiculous that the Council would be willing to dismiss the Reaper threat since the Asari can mind meld.

It's politics. The Reapers haven't invaded for two years. It's only natural that it'd be swept under the rug. If you think it's stupid, I direct you to the American political system.


Let's look at all the bad things Cerberus did in the first game,
Akuze - Thresher Maw attack
Sigma 23 - overrun by Rachni
Listening Post Theta - overrun by Rachni
Chasca - colony turned into husks
Admiral Kahoku - died of "natural causes" after trying to investigate Cerberus

These are just the ones that I remember. They get summarily dismissed or minimized in the second game. All you get is an e-mail from Toombs and some flimsy excuse from Miranda about how Cerberus never intended for bad things to happen when they studied the Rachni and Thorian creepers.

I had addressed a similar complaint earlier. I'd just assumed you had read it. But I'm willing to cover a few of the basics again.

You can press the Illusive Man on the subject too, as I recall (in addition to the instances you mentioned). And he insists that it’s the work of rogue cells. Whether that’s true or not is debatable. But of course he’s going to want to gloss over it. He wants—no, needs—Shepard to work with him. And if he has to lie or avoid the topic to do so, he will. That's why Cerberus is "playing nice" and has given Shepard a crew of non-extremists. To get Shepard to help. Pissing him off isn't exactly the way to do that.

And not all of those actions are evil. Cerberus completely botched the Rachni expirements from the start, presuming that they weren't intelligent. They escaped and wrecked havoc. You can't just look at Cerberus and say it's bad. Some of what they do is actually pretty admirable. At other times, they appear to be completely incompetent. And other times, they do some pretty bad things (sometimes for the right reasons, sometimes not).


My point was that even though there are so few named sentient races in ME, only a three of them have really been thoroughly explored. At least with Star Trek, they have an excuse for not exploring most of their races since there are hundreds of them.

Also, Keepers aren't sentient.

Three? Hardly. The Turians, Asari, Salarians, Krogan, Quarians, and humans have been explored in depth. We know a good deal about the Geth as well.

And the Keepers are debatable. There’s some interesting speculation on them in the second game (and for the life of me, I can't remember where I heard it).

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 06:22 PM
Any of you regularly brought along Miranda for the sole purpose of trying to see what the Cerberus PoV would be? I usually had her and Tali as my 'regular' group (kinda wish there could be a 4th member...would've brought Mordin more often, then)

Miranda is, far and away, the most useful of your squadmates (especially when you play on insanity). She is the defense killer with Overload and Warp. She boots squad health and weapon damage. And Slam isn't too bad either. Her personality and usefulness is a large part of why I bring her almost everywhere.

Pretty much the same with Garrus. He's probably the second most useful character.


As for Jack: I don't recall using her...(I did all the loyalty missions in my 1st playthrough tho', but that was kinda it) Yeah, her character was quite abrasive, but I don't think that was the reason I didn't use her. *shrugs*

Jack's skillset was almost as bad as Tali's and Jacob's. Except Jack was pretty good when it came to those husks that just swarm and swarm and swarm. That and her personality just killed it for me.

Giantevilhead
February 25th, 2010, 08:13 PM
From the other thread--carrying the conversation over to here.

Explain to me exactly. Because I'm really not following you right now (though this may be overload from my midterms). How is Terminus unexplored? It's well mapped--something that requires exploration.

Considering Shepard is part of the Council—as a Spectre—saying they don’t provide assistance is illogical at best. Spectres operate under Council command, not Alliance command. It's why you can tell Hackett and Mikhailovich to stuff it. And why would a Spectre get a ton of help in the first place? They're the guys that deal with the major threats (and they've always done it on their own). And when one of their own goes rogue, only a Spectre is up to the challenge of bringing that individual down.

Furthermore, based on the assistance of the 3rd Infiltration Regiment, it's logical to conclude that Council is utilizing other resources to follow up other leads. They just don't turn up any relevant information to help you.

Have you ever heard of a hyperbole? It's an obvious exaggeration used to prove a point. It's like when someone says, "I hate waiting in line for the rides at Disney Land, it's like being at the DMV, it takes forever." They don't literally mean that standing in line at Disney Land or at the DMV actually takes forever. They're making a comparison between two similar events and exaggerating their similarities to make a point.

The point I was making is that ME is very similar to Star Trek Enterprise.

When I said that the Terminus Sector/Delphic Expanse was unexplored, I didn't mean it literally. Both places were explored but not by humans. Shepard may have had a map of the Sector but he had little idea about what he would find there, all he knew that it was a dangerous place full of pirates and mercs. It's the same thing with Enterprise and the Delphic Expanse, the Klingons and Vulcans had mapped the region. However, all the Enterprise really knew about the Expanse was that it was full of dangerous anomalies.

It's the same thing when I said that the Council/Vulcans didn't help the hero. Both of them helped. The Vulcans gave humans tech and information, they even sent ships to help occasionally. However, the help they offered was relatively minor in regards to the plot. It's the same thing with the Council, they helped with the Salarian infiltration team and they put blockades around mass relays but their efforts did very little to stop Sovereign.


As of the first game, the Alliance Fleet is considered to rival the Turian's own. Not necessarily in numbers--you're right, the Turians have a distinct advantage in dreadnoughts--but that doesn't change facts. You seem to think dreadnoughts are the defining factor, which is a ridiculous notion. There's other factors that play into having a powerful fleet.

Dreadnoughts are the WMD's of the ME universe. They're powerful enough that the Council actually have a treaty to limit their numbers.


In fact, as of "Ascension," the Alliance Fleet is the most powerful.

That's actually another problem with the ME universe. Humans have only had mass effect technology for 30 years and suddenly they're more powerful than races that have had ME tech for more than a thousand years.


Geth? Go talk to the nearest Quarian. They can tell you just about everything you want to know about them. Their history, how they work. Did you miss all the conversations with Tali'Zorah?

What exactly does that have to do with the Geth's motivations for coming out of the Perseus Veil after 300 years and attacking a human colony for no reason? How much the Geth have changed in 300 years is a mystery. Their sudden aggressive actions are mysterious. What they hope to achieve through their attacks is a mystery. Why they're helping Saren is a mystery. Whether or not they built Sovereign is a mystery. Therefore, the Geth are a mysterious enemy.


As for Saren, all his records may be classified, but only as a Spectre. And he's very well known. How he operates on the job, why he thinks the way he does. Saren’s the best and everyone knows it. Just because you’re special forces doesn’t make you an unknown quantity. Seriously, when a Spectre goes in, everyone knows. It’s why the Council makes use of the Salarian STG. It’s a far less pretentious deployment.

So did you know from the very beginning of the game where Saren got a huge 2 km long ship and why he suddenly decided to betray the Council, and attack Eden Prime, based on the fact that he was the best and most well known Spectre? No? Then doesn't the fact that he did something that is completely antithetical to what people think was his nature suggest that people didn't know him nearly as well as they think? Therefore, doesn't that make him a mystery?


It's politics. The Reapers haven't invaded for two years. It's only natural that it'd be swept under the rug. If you think it's stupid, I direct you to the American political system.

Yes, because we've faced a crisis that could result in the total annihilation of all life on the planet before.


I had addressed a similar complaint earlier. I'd just assumed you had read it. But I'm willing to cover a few of the basics again.

You can press the Illusive Man on the subject too, as I recall (in addition to the instances you mentioned). And he insists that it’s the work of rogue cells. Whether that’s true or not is debatable. But of course he’s going to want to gloss over it. He wants—no, needs—Shepard to work with him. And if he has to lie or avoid the topic to do so, he will. That's why Cerberus is "playing nice" and has given Shepard a crew of non-extremists. To get Shepard to help. Pissing him off isn't exactly the way to do that.

My problem isn't that Cerberus is sweeping everything under the rug, my problem is how so many people are willing to accept their BS, especially Shepard.

Sure, you have a few people distrusting Cerberus but given the fact that the Alliance and the Council considers it a terrorist organization, people should be trying to arrest you, not making idle threats.


And not all of those actions are evil. Cerberus completely botched the Rachni expirements from the start, presuming that they weren't intelligent. They escaped and wrecked havoc. You can't just look at Cerberus and say it's bad. Some of what they do is actually pretty admirable. At other times, they appear to be completely incompetent. And other times, they do some pretty bad things (sometimes for the right reasons, sometimes not).

And Hamas builds schools, gyms, health care clinics, mosques, and day care centers, but it doesn't change the fact that they're a terrorist organization.


Three? Hardly. The Turians, Asari, Salarians, Krogan, Quarians, and humans have been explored in depth. We know a good deal about the Geth as well.

How much do you really know about the Turians and the Salarians aside from the Codices? The Codices are nice but the information they give pale in comparison to what you can learn from actual interactions. It's like with the Klingons in Star Trek, all the text on them says that they're an honorable warrior race but we know that's not true from the TV shows and movies. ME2 has an example of that too with the Quarians. What was shown of Quarian society in ME2 adds a lot to what was just in the codex in ME1.

As for the Asari, they're supposed to be the mystical race that we don't know much about like Yoda's race or the Changelings, so the fact that we aren't given much information about them isn't a big deal.


And the Keepers are debatable. There’s some interesting speculation on them in the second game (and for the life of me, I can't remember where I heard it).

The only speculation comes in the form of an e-mail from the Salarian scientist from the first game that you helped gather information on the Keepers. He speculated that the Keepers predate the Protheans, something that you already know.

s09119
February 25th, 2010, 09:05 PM
That's actually another problem with the ME universe. Humans have only had mass effect technology for 30 years and suddenly they're more powerful than races that have had ME tech for more than a thousand years.

The Citadel fleet was torn to shreds during Sovereign's attack; our fleet is only the most powerful because we had the largest surviving force after the Battle of the Citadel and, now that we're less restrained by the treaty limiting non-Council races' vessels, we can unleash the full power of our industry to crank out as many craft as we need. The Council races pooled their resources at the Citadel in anticipation of Saren's assault, and it didn't go well for them. Is it any surprise they're still rebuilding?

Alan Wake
February 25th, 2010, 09:24 PM
I wish the Counsel didn't intervene in the First Contact War. I would have loved to have seen the Turrien fleet destroy the humans.

:)

Replicator Todd
February 25th, 2010, 10:17 PM
I'm playing through ME1 for about eighth time....its been a while since I played a video game! I don't mind being stuck at level 60.....I mop the floor with every enemy! :D

Oranos
February 25th, 2010, 11:01 PM
When I said that the Terminus Sector/Delphic Expanse was unexplored, I didn't mean it literally. Both places were explored but not by humans. Shepard may have had a map of the Sector but he had little idea about what he would find there, all he knew that it was a dangerous place full of pirates and mercs. It's the same thing with Enterprise and the Delphic Expanse, the Klingons and Vulcans had mapped the region. However, all the Enterprise really knew about the Expanse was that it was full of dangerous anomalies.

Even though humans have numerous settlements in the Terminus Systems? That kind of throws a wrench in your claim.


It's the same thing when I said that the Council/Vulcans didn't help the hero. Both of them helped. The Vulcans gave humans tech and information, they even sent ships to help occasionally. However, the help they offered was relatively minor in regards to the plot. It's the same thing with the Council, they helped with the Salarian infiltration team and they put blockades around mass relays but their efforts did very little to stop Sovereign.

Fair enough.

But doesn't that have more to say about Sovereign than anything? That was pretty much, hands down, the most powerful dreadnought in the Battle of the Citadel. But if it wasn't for the 3rd Infiltration Regiment, Saren would have had an army of Krogan behind him and Shepard never would have had access to the Prothean Beacon. I'd say the STG did their part (and it was an important one). Of course, I may be a little biased. Kirrahe was freakin' awesome.


Dreadnoughts are the WMD's of the ME universe. They're powerful enough that the Council actually have a treaty to limit their numbers.

The Treaty of Farixen, yes. Which is based on the Washington Naval Treaty. I know.

Humanity coined several innovations to get around the treaty--carriers, for example.

Of course, if dreadnoughts are the ultimate weapon, as you so claim, someone had better tell that to the Asari. I'm sure they'll be embarrassed that the Destiny Ascension (the most powerful dreadnought outside of the Reapers) was either a.) destroyed or b.) very nearly destroyed. By Geth Dropships. Which are classified as frigates.


What exactly does that have to do with the Geth's motivations for coming out of the Perseus Veil after 300 years and attacking a human colony for no reason? How much the Geth have changed in 300 years is a mystery. Their sudden aggressive actions are mysterious. What they hope to achieve through their attacks is a mystery. Why they're helping Saren is a mystery. Whether or not they built Sovereign is a mystery. Therefore, the Geth are a mysterious enemy.

Their motives--though not necessarily their actions--are mysterious. Furthermore, we know more about the Geth (as a race) than the Xindi. What was even known about the Xindi before they attacked?


So did you know from the very beginning of the game where Saren got a huge 2 km long ship and why he suddenly decided to betray the Council, and attack Eden Prime, based on the fact that he was the best and most well known Spectre? No? Then doesn't the fact that he did something that is completely antithetical to what people think was his nature suggest that people didn't know him nearly as well as they think? Therefore, doesn't that make him a mystery?

Saren is known to be absolutely brutal with an intense hatred of humanity, which stems from his brother's death in the First Contact War. This is speculated to be the reason for the attack on Eden Prime. "Revelation" confirms that Saren was planning to use Sovereign as an instrument for revenge. I'd say people knew him pretty well. But that's just me.

Just because his motives become blurred doesn't make his original motives any less true.


Yes, because we've faced a crisis that could result in the total annihilation of all life on the planet before.

It's still politics. When does it ever work like it should?


My problem isn't that Cerberus is sweeping everything under the rug, my problem is how so many people are willing to accept their BS, especially Shepard.

Shepard doesn't really have a choice. The Alliance and the Council can't officially take action in the Terminus Systems. Cerberus is the only powerhouse that has the money, means, and information to make Shepard's mission a success.


Sure, you have a few people distrusting Cerberus but given the fact that the Alliance and the Council considers it a terrorist organization, people should be trying to arrest you, not making idle threats.

Shepard can be a Spectre at this point. Who's going to try to arrest you? Anybody gets in your way, deal with them. Spectres are above the law (and the only people you answer to are on the Council).


And Hamas builds schools, gyms, health care clinics, mosques, and day care centers, but it doesn't change the fact that they're a terrorist organization.

Cerberus operates in this morally gray area. You've seen them at their worse, occasionally at their best, and even somewhere in between. Truth be told, Cerberus hasn't even really done anything that's worse than what the Council has done.


How much do you really know about the Turians and the Salarians aside from the Codices? The Codices are nice but the information they give pale in comparison to what you can learn from actual interactions.

I'm just curious. How much did you actually talk to others?


The only speculation comes in the form of an e-mail from the Salarian scientist from the first game that you helped gather information on the Keepers. He speculated that the Keepers predate the Protheans, something that you already know.

I must be out of my mind. Or I've been having some vivid dreams. Or something. But maybe someone here can confirm or deny. I seem to remember that someone--don't know who, don't know why--speculates that the Keepers may have been genetically repurposed (in the same fashion as the Collectors).

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 26th, 2010, 05:36 AM
The Citadel fleet was torn to shreds during Sovereign's attack; our fleet is only the most powerful because we had the largest surviving force after the Battle of the Citadel and, now that we're less restrained by the treaty limiting non-Council races' vessels, we can unleash the full power of our industry to crank out as many craft as we need. The Council races pooled their resources at the Citadel in anticipation of Saren's assault, and it didn't go well for them. Is it any surprise they're still rebuilding?

Just to add to that it's stated that humanity also cheats. The treaties on fleet strength specially state how many dreadnaughts each race can have, so humanity is building its limit, then goes and designs carriers to get round the limit as there's no mention of them. This thinking outside the box is one of the reasons why many of the other races are wary of humanity.

gotthammer
February 26th, 2010, 12:38 PM
Just to add to that it's stated that humanity also cheats. The treaties on fleet strength specially state how many dreadnaughts each race can have, so humanity is building its limit, then goes and designs carriers to get round the limit as there's no mention of them. This thinking outside the box is one of the reasons why many of the other races are wary of humanity.

Hehehe. Well, ya can't blame humanity (or the other races for being wary :D ). Each race has to look out after it's own. Everyone can spout stuff like cooperation, but at the end of the day, each race still, for the most part, prioritizes their own.
Funny thing about the Carriers, tho'. :D
Kinda reminds me of the concept of 'pocket battleships'.

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 26th, 2010, 12:45 PM
Hehehe. Well, ya can't blame humanity (or the other races for being wary :D ). Each race has to look out after it's own. Everyone can spout stuff like cooperation, but at the end of the day, each race still, for the most part, prioritizes their own.
Funny thing about the Carriers, tho'. :D
Kinda reminds me of the concept of 'pocket battleships'.

Well I believe that the whole humanity getting round treaties by building carriers was deliberately modelled on behaviour of nations like Japan during the interwar period in the 20's and 30's. The naval treaties of the time only allowed them so many battleships so you can guess what they went and did. :P

And who likes my new sig? Kinda work in progress and I might tinker with it but I feel it's not bad for a first effort.

Oranos
February 26th, 2010, 01:05 PM
Well I believe that the whole humanity getting round treaties by building carriers was deliberately modelled on behaviour of nations like Japan during the interwar period in the 20's and 30's. The naval treaties of the time only allowed them so many battleships so you can guess what they went and did. :P

The Treaty of Farixen is way too similar to the Washington Naval Treaty to be a coincidence. Battleships (dreadnoughts) were the most destructive weapon of the period and the treaty called for constraints upon them. The United States (the Alliance) had to work around this. The answer was a carrier-based fleet as opposed to a battleship centric one; and the battleship, as a result, became almost obsolete.

It's a testament to "human ingenuity," as Commander Shepard says. And humans have certainly developed their ways to work around the Treaty of Farixen. The dreadnought hasn't become quite so obsolete yet, but it soon will. With advances in stealth technology and such, the dreadnought is just becoming one damn big target.


And who likes my new sig? Kinda work in progress and I might tinker with it but I feel it's not bad for a first effort.

Not bad. But truthfully, I would probably ditch "the Reapers will return" part.

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 26th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Not bad. But truthfully, I would probably ditch "the Reapers will return" part.

Meh I kinda like it. More importantly everyone can stare at my fantastic new avatar :D

gotthammer
February 26th, 2010, 01:49 PM
Meh I kinda like it. More importantly everyone can stare at my fantastic new avatar :D

I like the Avatar more than the Sig. :D
I do agree w/ Oranos, tho', maybe lose the 'reapers will return' line, and maybe 'spruce up' the rest of the text (so as to provide better contrast between the text and the pic). Otherwise, it's nice.

As for Dreadnoughts becoming obsolete: I hope not. I always liked large starships. :D
(esp. WH40k's 'cathedrals in space' :D ...tho' the largest ships in ME are relatively small compared to other sci-fi settings. I mean, a dread is 800m - 1km, whereas Star Wars' Imperial Star Destroyer is 1.6 km, and I think Moya from Farscape is around a kilometer long, too)

The Mighty 6 platoon
February 26th, 2010, 03:20 PM
I like the Avatar more than the Sig. :D
I do agree w/ Oranos, tho', maybe lose the 'reapers will return' line, and maybe 'spruce up' the rest of the text (so as to provide better contrast between the text and the pic). Otherwise, it's nice.


Well it's work in progess, I'll spruce it up over the next few days. I really wanted one with the shot of the reapers actually heading towards the milky way but I can't find that screenshot at the moment.

Oranos
February 28th, 2010, 02:58 PM
As for Dreadnoughts becoming obsolete: I hope not. I always liked large starships. :D


The fate of the dreadnought just seems to be too well tied with our battleships. I don't think you're going to get that lucky. If you look closely, the similarities are there. Whether that's the direction that the writers intended to take, I don't know.

But just name the battleships still in the United States Navy. I'll give you a hint. You won't get out of single digits.

It's zero. Which is, I think, where the dreadnought will end up.

Franklyn Blaze
March 1st, 2010, 01:02 AM
I just finished Mass Effect 2 last week. I am interested to see how my decisions effect the story in the next installment. Did anyone else only get to save their game around 50 times? I had to archive my save files away and there's hundreds of them, so I can branch off at any point in the game and come out with new decisions. I did feel like there was less exploring. ME 1 felt like it had more space to move around in even with the DLC in number 2. I also got sick of scanning planets! Going to have to do an insane run sometime.

gotthammer
March 1st, 2010, 02:49 AM
The fate of the dreadnought just seems to be too well tied with our battleships. I don't think you're going to get that lucky. If you look closely, the similarities are there. Whether that's the direction that the writers intended to take, I don't know.

But just name the battleships still in the United States Navy. I'll give you a hint. You won't get out of single digits.

It's zero. Which is, I think, where the dreadnought will end up.

Yup. I'm kinda aware of how modern navies are now, as well as the decline of the 'big gun ships'. I mean, even the last battleship used was partly a missile-launching platform. (it was the 1st Gulf War that the last one was used, right? Don't remember the name anymore)

Still, it ultimately depends on the way a setting goes.

One of my favourite space operas, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, uses battleship-like (no turrets, tho': all the guns fire straight forward, think Napoleonic-era warfare, but in space; they just have point-defense-like beam weapons for 'broadsides') vessels as flagships, but almost all the vessels there (except maybe the missile platforms), I think, are capable of carrying a fighter contingent (there are still dedicated carriers, tho', but w/ the engagement range being somewhere between 60 - 100 or more million kilometers, the guns are still the primary mode of engagement).

I was kinda hoping that ME's ships weren't 'too specialized', but it seems they are. Still, I wouldn't mind having a Dreadnought (provided it had it's own fighter/interceptor bays).

Oranos
March 1st, 2010, 07:22 AM
Yup. I'm kinda aware of how modern navies are now, as well as the decline of the 'big gun ships'. I mean, even the last battleship used was partly a missile-launching platform. (it was the 1st Gulf War that the last one was used, right? Don't remember the name anymore)

Wisconsin and Missouri were the last of their kind used. And were put off being decommissioned because of the 1st Gulf War.


Still, it ultimately depends on the way a setting goes.

With the smaller ships of the line becoming more and more powerful, it just feels that this is what's being set up. There's Thanix Cannons and stealth systems, for example--technologies that very well could make the dreadnought obsolete; you're essentially taking away the dreadnought's greatest advantages. The cost and upkeep of a dreadnought is going to be high, as is the crew size, which could be put to better use on a more effective carrier.


I was kinda hoping that ME's ships weren't 'too specialized', but it seems they are. Still, I wouldn't mind having a Dreadnought (provided it had it's own fighter/interceptor bays).

So you either want to build a carrier (from scratch) that fits this profile or you want to overhaul a dreadnought to make it an effective carrier? That'd cost a small fortune in credits.

gotthammer
March 1st, 2010, 09:07 AM
With the smaller ships of the line becoming more and more powerful, it just feels that this is what's being set up. There's Thanix Cannons and stealth systems, for example--technologies that very well could make the dreadnought obsolete; you're essentially taking away the dreadnought's greatest advantages. The cost and upkeep of a dreadnought is going to be high, as is the crew size, which could be put to better use on a more effective carrier.

Wasn't the primary purpose of the Dread to engage at range? And what's to keep everyone from updating/upgrading the existing ships? If, say, a Dread were to be given Thanix cannons (or equivalent) to counter relatively smaller, faster targets (and, since one can assume that it can supply power more than a Frigate, have a better rate of fire or something akin to that), AND still be able to engage at ranges smaller ships can't...wouldn't that still make it 'relevant'?


So you either want to build a carrier (from scratch) that fits this profile or you want to overhaul a dreadnought to make it an effective carrier? That'd cost a small fortune in credits.
Nope, not really a carrier, per se, just give the ships, of most classes (perhaps above Frigate), the ability to carry a small contingent (think SG's 304s) of fighters. As I said, one of my fav. space operas had fleets where most of the vessels, while being able to contribute to the battle at range, can contribute to the 'knife fights' w/ fighters and point-defense. The point, more or less being, for more 'versatile' ships. :D
edit: of course, in the case of the space opera I'm referring to, most of the ships were around or in excess of 600m in length...so I guess they had lots of room to spare (more or less...since most of the ships' interior was probably taken up by the main weapons). Still, it allowed for some level of versatility. (never mind that the heavier engagements cost thousands of ships and millions of lives :D )

Oranos
March 1st, 2010, 01:58 PM
Wasn't the primary purpose of the Dread to engage at range? And what's to keep everyone from updating/upgrading the existing ships? If, say, a Dread were to be given Thanix cannons (or equivalent) to counter relatively smaller, faster targets (and, since one can assume that it can supply power more than a Frigate, have a better rate of fire or something akin to that), AND still be able to engage at ranges smaller ships can't...wouldn't that still make it 'relevant'?

Stealth systems. Quite possibly the dreadnought's greatest advantage was its ability to nail you at long distances (and there was nothing you could do about it). But let's assume you could only be seen--the targeting computers could never get a lock. The dreadnought becomes a massive target; it can't hit you at range, and it'd even be difficult to hit you once you were in range.

Thanix Cannons. With smaller ships, the problem was that they couldn't pack the same firepower that a dreadnought could. Now imagine that a cruiser or frigate could--and effectively destroy larger, "more powerful" ships. Keep in mind that Thanix Cannons are essentially a dreadnought-type weapon; the Turians engineered them from Sovereign's wreckage.

Size. Dreadnoughts are large--this means a large crew. You have to pay them, maintain food for them--you're effectively having to run a city. If you lose the dreadnought, you're losing a lot of people. Futhermore, upkeep isn't cheap. Ensuring that the dreadnought is running smoothly costs a fair share of credits. When you bring the above factors in, your ship is just a target.

These aren't the only problems, just the biggest. If these technologies become widely used--and you have to think that they will given their effectiveness--then what are you going to do with a dreadnought? When something else can do your job more effectively, and you can't even perform yours, you know you have problems.

I do see a compromise of sorts, however. A "destroyer," if you will. It'd allow you to combine the best of frigates/cruisers and the dreadnought.


Nope, not really a carrier, per se, just give the ships, of most classes (perhaps above Frigate), the ability to carry a small contingent (think SG's 304s) of fighters. As I said, one of my fav. space operas had fleets where most of the vessels, while being able to contribute to the battle at range, can contribute to the 'knife fights' w/ fighters and point-defense. The point, more or less being, for more 'versatile' ships. :D

You want to retrofit the entire fleet (that's capable of it) to carry fighters? It still comes back to cost. It may not even be possible; we haven't seen one of our dreadnoughts, and it's going to depend on how it's designed.

gotthammer
March 1st, 2010, 03:54 PM
Stealth systems. Quite possibly the dreadnought's greatest advantage was its ability to nail you at long distances (and there was nothing you could do about it). But let's assume you could only be seen--the targeting computers could never get a lock. The dreadnought becomes a massive target; it can't hit you at range, and it'd even be difficult to hit you once you were in range.

Hehe. The space opera I watched had, I assume, a similar issue: missiles could be countered and I don't think weapon 'locks' work (assumption: equivalent level of ECM/ECCM/etc.)...so they volley fire. As for ME, well, it's the future, so what's to say optics aren't advanced enough to pick out ships at range (that's actually the bit I didn't get w/ the reasoning behind Normandy's 'stealth'...granted space is 'vast and wide', but couldn't there have been a scanning program made to identify ship-like visual patterns/designs/movement...esp. in a setting w/ AI? I recall a codex entry regarding visual ID, but I forget the gist)


Thanix Cannons. With smaller ships, the problem was that they couldn't pack the same firepower that a dreadnought could. Now imagine that a cruiser or frigate could--and effectively destroy larger, "more powerful" ships. Keep in mind that Thanix Cannons are essentially a dreadnought-type weapon; the Turians engineered them from Sovereign's wreckage.
Yup. With one Dread, you could probably field a wolfpack of Frigates. Thing is, again, how much more effective could a Thanix-type weapon be on a Dread than on a Frigate? Would range/RoF/damage potential improve? And assuming you could reproduce the upgrades on the SR-2 on a larger ship, wouldn't that mean better shielding and armor?


Size. Dreadnoughts are large--this means a large crew. You have to pay them, maintain food for them--you're effectively having to run a city. If you lose the dreadnought, you're losing a lot of people. Futhermore, upkeep isn't cheap. Ensuring that the dreadnought is running smoothly costs a fair share of credits. When you bring the above factors in, your ship is just a target.
But! But! It's a space opera! :D
Big ships = epic looking space battles! :D
Well, if they can't keep crew cheap...there's always the way that the SR-2 did it: EDI-style AI. Pfft at the anti-AI conventions. :D


These aren't the only problems, just the biggest. If these technologies become widely used--and you have to think that they will given their effectiveness--then what are you going to do with a dreadnought? When something else can do your job more effectively, and you can't even perform yours, you know you have problems.

I do see a compromise of sorts, however. A "destroyer," if you will. It'd allow you to combine the best of frigates/cruisers and the dreadnought.
I did find 'dreadnought' a weird term for that class in-game, tho'. Maybe coz' it sounds 'cooler' than Battleship? Hehe, who knows, maybe that really is to hint at the class' eventual move toward being obsolete. :valaanime06:


You want to retrofit the entire fleet (that's capable of it) to carry fighters? It still comes back to cost. It may not even be possible; we haven't seen one of our dreadnoughts, and it's going to depend on how it's designed.
Nah. Just throwing in my opinion that it would be nice if they were more versatile, tho' you do have a point in that I don't think the exact specs of a Dread (for any species, I think) has been laid out (and I've yet to finish both ME novels, so I wouldn't know if they had any)...so who knows, maybe they do have the capability to field a squadron or more.

Oranos
March 1st, 2010, 04:53 PM
Hehe. The space opera I watched had, I assume, a similar issue: missiles could be countered and I don't think weapon 'locks' work (assumption: equivalent level of ECM/ECCM/etc.)...so they volley fire. As for ME, well, it's the future, so what's to say optics aren't advanced enough to pick out ships at range (that's actually the bit I didn't get w/ the reasoning behind Normandy's 'stealth'...granted space is 'vast and wide', but couldn't there have been a scanning program made to identify ship-like visual patterns/designs/movement...esp. in a setting w/ AI? I recall a codex entry regarding visual ID, but I forget the gist)

I don't remember exactly what the codex says about this either, so I can't help you there.

As for countering Normandy's stealth systems, it's obviously possible. The Collectors proved that much. But it's an edge that none of the other races seem to have.


Yup. With one Dread, you could probably field a wolfpack of Frigates. Thing is, again, how much more effective could a Thanix-type weapon be on a Dread than on a Frigate? Would range/RoF/damage potential improve? And assuming you could reproduce the upgrades on the SR-2 on a larger ship, wouldn't that mean better shielding and armor?

Even a retired battleship today packs more punch and more armor than the cruisers, destroyers, and frigates. The point is that--even despite that edge--the other classes are deadly enough that it didn't matter. Thanix Cannons are going to make the other classes that deadly.


But! But! It's a space opera! :D
Big ships = epic looking space battles! :D
Well, if they can't keep crew cheap...there's always the way that the SR-2 did it: EDI-style AI. Pfft at the anti-AI conventions. :D

The AI was outlawed for a reason. How many times has that come back to haunt people/aliens?

EDI is different (for one reason and one reason only). She'd never turn on her one true love, Joker. :p


I did find 'dreadnought' a weird term for that class in-game, tho'. Maybe coz' it sounds 'cooler' than Battleship? Hehe, who knows, maybe that really is to hint at the class' eventual move toward being obsolete. :valaanime06:

It probably stems from the H. M. S. Dreadnought--that is, the first modern battleship. I assume it caught on from there; most battleships then being referred to as dreadnoughts.


Nah. Just throwing in my opinion that it would be nice if they were more versatile, tho' you do have a point in that I don't think the exact specs of a Dread (for any species, I think) has been laid out (and I've yet to finish both ME novels, so I wouldn't know if they had any)...so who knows, maybe they do have the capability to field a squadron or more.

The only dreadnoughts we've seen are the Reapers. And the Asari's Destiny Ascension.

Giantevilhead
March 1st, 2010, 10:21 PM
Even though humans have numerous settlements in the Terminus Systems? That kind of throws a wrench in your claim.



Fair enough.

But doesn't that have more to say about Sovereign than anything? That was pretty much, hands down, the most powerful dreadnought in the Battle of the Citadel. But if it wasn't for the 3rd Infiltration Regiment, Saren would have had an army of Krogan behind him and Shepard never would have had access to the Prothean Beacon. I'd say the STG did their part (and it was an important one). Of course, I may be a little biased. Kirrahe was freakin' awesome.



The Treaty of Farixen, yes. Which is based on the Washington Naval Treaty. I know.

Humanity coined several innovations to get around the treaty--carriers, for example.

Of course, if dreadnoughts are the ultimate weapon, as you so claim, someone had better tell that to the Asari. I'm sure they'll be embarrassed that the Destiny Ascension (the most powerful dreadnought outside of the Reapers) was either a.) destroyed or b.) very nearly destroyed. By Geth Dropships. Which are classified as frigates.



Their motives--though not necessarily their actions--are mysterious. Furthermore, we know more about the Geth (as a race) than the Xindi. What was even known about the Xindi before they attacked?



Saren is known to be absolutely brutal with an intense hatred of humanity, which stems from his brother's death in the First Contact War. This is speculated to be the reason for the attack on Eden Prime. "Revelation" confirms that Saren was planning to use Sovereign as an instrument for revenge. I'd say people knew him pretty well. But that's just me.

Just because his motives become blurred doesn't make his original motives any less true.



It's still politics. When does it ever work like it should?



Shepard doesn't really have a choice. The Alliance and the Council can't officially take action in the Terminus Systems. Cerberus is the only powerhouse that has the money, means, and information to make Shepard's mission a success.



Shepard can be a Spectre at this point. Who's going to try to arrest you? Anybody gets in your way, deal with them. Spectres are above the law (and the only people you answer to are on the Council).



Cerberus operates in this morally gray area. You've seen them at their worse, occasionally at their best, and even somewhere in between. Truth be told, Cerberus hasn't even really done anything that's worse than what the Council has done.



I'm just curious. How much did you actually talk to others?



I must be out of my mind. Or I've been having some vivid dreams. Or something. But maybe someone here can confirm or deny. I seem to remember that someone--don't know who, don't know why--speculates that the Keepers may have been genetically repurposed (in the same fashion as the Collectors).

If you're going to strawmen all my arguments then why even bother responding to them at all?

Oranos
March 1st, 2010, 11:00 PM
If you're going to strawmen all my arguments then why even bother responding to them at all?

Uh. Yeah. Okay.

Upon reading through, a couple of my points weren't as clear as I thought they sounded when I first wrote them; I was up pretty late if the time stamp was any indication so that was probably a contributing factor. Sorry if that caused some confusion. I'd be happy to explain anything that you weren't clear on.

But I believe I asked legitimate questions and/or responded sufficiently to what I thought your claim was. Either you didn't convey what you meant very well or I misunderstood what you meant.

dosed150
March 3rd, 2010, 12:44 AM
one of the codex entries states that dreadnaughts do carry a limited complement of fighters

gotthammer
March 3rd, 2010, 01:53 AM
one of the codex entries states that dreadnaughts do carry a limited complement of fighters

Ooh. Must have missed that. I really wish they'd come out w/ those tech readout-like thingies that Star Wars had, w/ cutouts and ship interior images and the sort. I'm a sucker for stuff like that. :D

edit: gah. which reminds me that I should be looking for my copy of Renegade Legion: Leviathan. It'd be cooler if games fleshed out their tech enough to give at least stuff like how fast a ship can turn, or the optimal engagement range (and if it had minimal range 'umbrella' and stuff like that).

Ouroboros
March 3rd, 2010, 07:49 AM
No Mass Effect thread is complete without.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEbZNOAsYl4

God I hated that scanning. So much scanning, but I did it all and it was worth it in the end watching that collector ship get its comeuppance.

I've got to wonder though. If i've got 11 people "loyal" to me plus normal ship's crew members can't I delegate this to Tali or Legion, or how 'bout the ships built in AI?

ME2 was the best game I've played in a good long while, quite possibly even the best game I've ever played in terms of it being a story that one participates in. The story might not necessarily be that original or groundbreaking in its content but the presentation and directing and voice acting in this game were on a level I've never seen in another.



So being honest now how did everyone's suicide mission go. Did you flub it horribly or get everyone through on your first try?

I only lost Zaeed in mine because I made him a fire team leader which apparently he sucks at despite what you might think.

I actually felt the loss to because he was one of my favorites. Him and Jack were my go to team for most of my first play through. We had a nice little "the scary side of humanity says hi" aesthetic going on which was funny since my guy ended up almost totally paragon by the end.

Definitely liked the characters way more in this one than the first. ME1 had Wrex but the others were kind of lacking, especially the romance options. My Shep stayed a bachelor all through ME1 just because I couldn't stand either Ashley or Liara. It wasn't till ME2 that he finally got to meet the little bald psychopath of his dreams.

gotthammer
March 3rd, 2010, 08:13 AM
re: suicide mission ( I didn't really load, I just wanted to finish it :valaanime06: )
I think I just lost Legion. I sent him into the ducts...I forgot who else I assigned to what. Zaeed as squad leader the first time? (I'm sure he's the one who lead the survivors back to the Normandy)

re: romance
hmm...didn't do any. :D

re: Scanning
Heh. It was amusing for a while...then it got really tedious.(and I think my wrist started to hurt...)
And yeah, you're not the first to suggest delegating that tedious task to the AI...would be nice if you could, tho'.
I'm really looking forward to the Hammerhead. :)

s09119
March 3rd, 2010, 10:14 AM
No Mass Effect thread is complete without.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEbZNOAsYl4

God I hated that scanning. So much scanning, but I did it all and it was worth it in the end watching that collector ship get its comeuppance.

I've got to wonder though. If i've got 11 people "loyal" to me plus normal ship's crew members can't I delegate this to Tali or Legion, or how 'bout the ships built in AI?

ME2 was the best game I've played in a good long while, quite possibly even the best game I've ever played in terms of it being a story that one participates in. The story might not necessarily be that original or groundbreaking in its content but the presentation and directing and voice acting in this game were on a level I've never seen in another.



So being honest now how did everyone's suicide mission go. Did you flub it horribly or get everyone through on your first try?

I only lost Zaeed in mine because I made him a fire team leader which apparently he sucks at despite what you might think.

I actually felt the loss to because he was one of my favorites. Him and Jack were my go to team for most of my first play through. We had a nice little "the scary side of humanity says hi" aesthetic going on which was funny since my guy ended up almost totally paragon by the end.

Definitely liked the characters way more in this one than the first. ME1 had Wrex but the others were kind of lacking, especially the romance options. My Shep stayed a bachelor all through ME1 just because I couldn't stand either Ashley or Liara. It wasn't till ME2 that he finally got to meet the little bald psychopath of his dreams.

I didn't mind the scanning, honestly.

On the suicide mission note, I survived and pulled my whole team through =] I slept with Liara in the first game since I really thought she was great, but in the second game she just became so cold and unfeeling that I ultimately chose the defrosted Ice Queen that is Miranda instead. Perfect mix of attitude, brains, and biotic devastation <3

Oranos
March 3rd, 2010, 01:18 PM
So being honest now how did everyone's suicide mission go. Did you flub it horribly or get everyone through on your first try?

Better than I thought it would. I chose not to do everything...wanted to save some "surprises" for my main playthrough. I think I lost Jacob, Jack (thank you God!), Mordin (which just sucked), Samara and Grunt. Pity. I was trying to off Zaeed, but that just never worked out.


I only lost Zaeed in mine because I made him a fire team leader which apparently he sucks at despite what you might think.

That's one thing I honesty don't understand. So many people think he's an effective team leader. But every story he tells you--in which he and his team(s) go up against suicide odds--he's the only one that ever comes out alive. He really doesn't seem to care about those under his command at all.

If you pay close attention to the stories and each character's job, you can pretty much figure out who's going to be good at what.


I actually felt the loss to because he was one of my favorites. Him and Jack were my go to team for most of my first play through. We had a nice little "the scary side of humanity says hi" aesthetic going on which was funny since my guy ended up almost totally paragon by the end.

That's funny. My two least favorites.


Definitely liked the characters way more in this one than the first. ME1 had Wrex but the others were kind of lacking, especially the romance options. My Shep stayed a bachelor all through ME1 just because I couldn't stand either Ashley or Liara. It wasn't till ME2 that he finally got to meet the little bald psychopath of his dreams.

...Garrus. And Wrex. :p

Actually, I "romanced" Ash (just so I could laugh at her on Virmire). Yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about. ;)

I am curious though. How exactly do you stay single? I've tried it before (and I always have either Liara or Ash show up at my door). I tell them off throughout the game, choose Renegade options, but it doesn't seem to work. Any advice you could give would be appreciated.

Ouroboros
March 3rd, 2010, 05:36 PM
I didn't mind the scanning, honestly.

On the suicide mission note, I survived and pulled my whole team through =] I slept with Liara in the first game since I really thought she was great, but in the second game she just became so cold and unfeeling that I ultimately chose the defrosted Ice Queen that is Miranda instead. Perfect mix of attitude, brains, and biotic devastation <3

I never talked much to Miranda. My main Sheppard has the Sole Survivor backstory so I like to imagine he just drinks with Jack and Tali and they swap stories about what a bunch of toolbags Cerberus are. Miranda and the Illusive man are both always like "oh Cerberus did X horrific thing did they, well that wasn't really Cerberus you see. The real Cerberus is all about rainbows and kittens not human supremacy, crimes against sentience, unethical abuse of science and general intergalactic douchery".

I still gave the base to them at the end though, but only because I plan to take it for myself/the alliance later once the Illusive man starts trusting me enough that I can bump him off in person.;)



I'm really looking forward to the Hammerhead. :)

Me to. I know a lot of people hated the mako but the scanning was a poor replacement for it. Some of the alien landscapes you could drive across in the first game were visually incredible.


Better than I thought it would. I chose not to do everything...wanted to save some "surprises" for my main playthrough. I think I lost Jacob, Jack (thank you God!), Mordin (which just sucked), Samara and Grunt. Pity. I was trying to off Zaeed, but that just never worked out.

Wow, quite the bloodbath there. I made sure I got all the upgrades and I was still nervous it was going to get me because I didn't do some side quest or something.


That's one thing I honesty don't understand. So many people think he's an effective team leader. But every story he tells you--in which he and his team(s) go up against suicide odds--he's the only one that ever comes out alive. He really doesn't seem to care about those under his command at all.

You would think that would cause somebody else to die if you put them under his command though, not him. I figured because of all of his "I survived this and that, only one to make it out alive" type stories that there's no way he'd get himself killed.


If you pay close attention to the stories and each character's job, you can pretty much figure out who's going to be good at what.

Yeah they make it pretty easy for you at times but do throw in a few red herrings. The one that caught me out was when Miranda offers to lead one of the teams and Jack starts in about how nobody wants to follow her. It made me think, "wait most of my crew is aliens and she pretty much is the Cerberus cheerleader. There might just be something to that."

I picked Garrus to lead the first team cause come on, it's Garrus, and that's what made me pick Zaeed for the second. I didn't want to use Garrus again because I figured he might be tired or something and the game would kill him if I used him both times and Miranda seemed like the aliens would mistrust her like I said. Jacob was going to be my next choice but I went with Zaeed because he seemed to have more experience with small unit tactics and he wasn't Cerberus.


That's funny. My two least favorites.

Lots of people hate Jack but she gets really cute and funny once you talk to her enough and her badass routine starts to become transparent to Sheppard. Samara's another character that you really need to talk to a lot to appreciate. She'll seem pretty dull otherwise.

I loved Zaeed's voice actor. I kept taking him for that reason alone.


...Garrus. And Wrex. :p

Tali/Wrex/Garrus was my ME1 rotation.


Actually, I "romanced" Ash (just so I could laugh at her on Virmire). Yeah, you know exactly what I'm talking about. ;)

I thought about going back and romancing her in ME1 just so I can watch Jack squish her in ME3.:D


I am curious though. How exactly do you stay single? I've tried it before (and I always have either Liara or Ash show up at my door). I tell them off throughout the game, choose Renegade options, but it doesn't seem to work. Any advice you could give would be appreciated.

It's pretty easy, just stop talking to them when they start weirdly reciting poetry to you. I stayed a bachelor just by never really talking much to either Ash or Liara. I think Ash might still have shown up at the end anyway but I just told her to get lost.

When I hear the name "Ashley Williams" I only think of one thing.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/8039/evildead2t.jpg

If your Shep needs female contact he can talk to Tali, she won't try to jump his bones.

That is one thing I wish they'd work on though. There should be a way to finish all the character dialog without the game thinking your character automatically wants to romance them. I don't think it's quite as bad as in the first one though, in that one you had to almost go out of your way to make sure one of them doesn't come sniffing under your door at the end. I never talked to Liara very much with either gender for example because she's an obsessive little landmine for both of them.

Oranos
March 3rd, 2010, 06:57 PM
Wow, quite the bloodbath there. I made sure I got all the upgrades and I was still nervous it was going to get me because I didn't do some side quest or something.

I skipped out on quite a bit of scanning--so I think missed out on a couple of upgrades. And I didn't do several loyalty missions--so again, problems. And I followed Jacob's advice and sent him into the vents. And apparently Mordin sucks at holding the line (which, I suppose isn't a surprise). Like I said, just wanted to save some surprises for my main playthrough.


You would think that would cause somebody else to die if you put them under his command though, not him. I figured because of all of his "I survived this and that, only one to make it out alive" type stories that there's no way he'd get himself killed.

It had to catch up to him eventually. :p

But truthfully, your statement isn't technically true. Choosing a poor team leader can get your team killed.


Yeah they make it pretty easy for you at times but do throw in a few red herrings. The one that caught me out was when Miranda offers to lead one of the teams and Jack starts in about how nobody wants to follow her. It made me think, "wait most of my crew is aliens and she pretty much is the Cerberus cheerleader. There might just be something to that."

Most of the team doesn't seem to have a problem with Cerberus (or chooses to overlook it); Jack and Tali are the only real exceptions that I can remember.


I picked Garrus to lead the first team cause come on, it's Garrus, and that's what made me pick Zaeed for the second. I didn't want to use Garrus again because I figured he might be tired or something and the game would kill him if I used him both times and Miranda seemed like the aliens would mistrust her like I said. Jacob was going to be my next choice but I went with Zaeed because he seemed to have more experience with small unit tactics and he wasn't Cerberus.

Are we talking about the same Garrus? The Turian bad@$$? The guy who held off not one, not two, but three mercenary groups--the toughest on Omega--for an extended period of time. Tired ain't got nothing on Garrus. :p


Lots of people hate Jack but she gets really cute and funny once you talk to her enough and her badass routine starts to become transparent to Sheppard. Samara's another character that you really need to talk to a lot to appreciate. She'll seem pretty dull otherwise.

I just never really clicked with Jack. Which is odd because I was sure she was going to be one of my favorites from what I'd seen. Her skillset was horrible too, especially on insanity.

Samara hates me. Apparently I'm a little too Renegade. :(


I loved Zaeed's voice actor. I kept taking him for that reason alone.

You know, I wasn't a fan of his. But I think that's the only one I can say that about.


It's pretty easy, just stop talking to them when they start weirdly reciting poetry to you. I stayed a bachelor just by never really talking much to either Ash or Liara. I think Ash might still have shown up at the end anyway but I just told her to get lost.

And that's the problem. Even when you turn them down like that, it still counts as a romance (at least from what I understand). Their picture still shows up in your cabin in ME2.


If your Shep needs female contact he can talk to Tali, she won't try to jump his bones.

Funny you should say that. She was supposed to be a love interest in the first game.


That is one thing I wish they'd work on though. There should be a way to finish all the character dialog without the game thinking your character automatically wants to romance them. I don't think it's quite as bad as in the first one though, in that one you had to almost go out of your way to make sure one of them doesn't come sniffing under your door at the end. I never talked to Liara very much with either gender for example because she's an obsessive little landmine for both of them.

It's nowhere near as bad. It's rocket science trying to figure out a way to not enter a romance with Liara and Ash.

Ouroboros
March 3rd, 2010, 10:09 PM
I skipped out on quite a bit of scanning--so I think missed out on a couple of upgrades. And I didn't do several loyalty missions--so again, problems. And I followed Jacob's advice and sent him into the vents. And apparently Mordin sucks at holding the line (which, I suppose isn't a surprise). Like I said, just wanted to save some surprises for my main playthrough.

Mordin even has a line where he mocks Kirrahe's "hold the line" stuff from the first game saying something like he just prefers to get the job done and go home instead.

Apparently he dies because he's first on the games unseen death list for that final section. If you don't leave enough "good defenders" like Grunt, Garrus and Zaeed behind to "hold the line" the game kills Mordin.


It had to catch up to him eventually. :p

I think that was basically what he said before he croaked to.


But truthfully, your statement isn't technically true. Choosing a poor team leader can get your team killed.

Yeah. The first time you choose one if you pick a bad one it'll kill somebody else. I picked Zaeed the second time though.


Most of the team doesn't seem to have a problem with Cerberus (or chooses to overlook it); Jack and Tali are the only real exceptions that I can remember.

Apparently if Jack dies in the cinematic before the mission starts Garrus pipes up instead. Even still it's basically a human supremacist organization and she's obviously totally on board with its core "humans first" philosophy. Jacob seemed more conflicted on things.


Are we talking about the same Garrus? The Turian bad@$$? The guy who held off not one, not two, but three mercenary groups--the toughest on Omega--for an extended period of time. Tired ain't got nothing on Garrus.

It really bothered me how he gets a new suit of armour after his loyalty mission and it's still got a hole shot through it. I mean there's even a model in the game already with no damage on it. Why didn't they just recolour that one instead?


I just never really clicked with Jack. Which is odd because I was sure she was going to be one of my favorites from what I'd seen. Her skillset was horrible too, especially on insanity.

Shockwave works on enemies even if their shields are up, occasionally dropping them in the process and punting a dude to the moon. Mostly though it's nice because it stuns enemies for a couple seconds, even if their shields are up, and if you give her the adept specialization her cooldowns get really short. I won't deny she's way more useful on easier settings when everything doesn't have shields, even borderline cheap, but redded out biotics can still be used, they're just not as effective. Warp ammo sure is though.


Samara hates me. Apparently I'm a little too Renegade. :(

Threatened to kill you did she?


You know, I wasn't a fan of his. But I think that's the only one I can say that about.

Really. I was very disappointed that they couldn't seem to get the Sheppard voice actors back to actually record proper conversations with him. There's another DLC character on the way to, you can already see her in the character screen if you manipulate certain game files though obviously she's not usable yet. I wonder if they're just going to do the same sort of thing with her.


And that's the problem. Even when you turn them down like that, it still counts as a romance (at least from what I understand). Their picture still shows up in your cabin in ME2.

Maybe I'm thinking of some other play through then because I didn't have anyone's picture on my desk.

It would be kind of funny to do it that way though, if the game still flags the last minute rejection as a romance. Reject them at the end, romance someone else in ME2, then have them come at you all psycho stalker in part 3 talking about this "relationship" that you supposedly had with them and how you cheated.


Funny you should say that. She was supposed to be a love interest in the first game.

I heard the exact opposite really. That they never made her a romance option because they didn't think anyone would want to romance a girl with "chicken feet".


It's nowhere near as bad. It's rocket science trying to figure out a way to not enter a romance with Liara and Ash.

They really need to just put in some kind of conversation thread near the end with all the potential romance interests where you can undo any sort of romance "points" or whatever you may have unwittingly built up with them.

It could even be fun. Range it from "it's not you it's me, no really" if you're a paragon to "oh my god you and me, no seriously you thought that.... oh god I need a shower" for renegade.

Oranos
March 4th, 2010, 12:09 PM
Apparently he dies because he's first on the games unseen death list for that final section. If you don't leave enough "good defenders" like Grunt, Garrus and Zaeed behind to "hold the line" the game kills Mordin.

Yeah, I know how it works now. This playthrough was before (Dusty?) announced how the deaths worked. In hindsight, it was a pretty stupid move (and I'm not sure what I was thinking then).


Apparently if Jack dies in the cinematic before the mission starts Garrus pipes up instead. Even still it's basically a human supremacist organization and she's obviously totally on board with its core "humans first" philosophy. Jacob seemed more conflicted on things.

That's...interesting. What exactly does Garrus have to say? And how does he say it? I know he expresses his concerns over Shepard working for Cerberus, but he seemed to be one of the ones to set aside his doubts and trust in his commander.


It really bothered me how he gets a new suit of armour after his loyalty mission and it's still got a hole shot through it. I mean there's even a model in the game already with no damage on it. Why didn't they just recolour that one instead?

At least Garrus actually wears armor, unlike certain other characters.


Shockwave works on enemies even if their shields are up, occasionally dropping them in the process and punting a dude to the moon. Mostly though it's nice because it stuns enemies for a couple seconds, even if their shields are up, and if you give her the adept specialization her cooldowns get really short. I won't deny she's way more useful on easier settings when everything doesn't have shields, even borderline cheap, but redded out biotics can still be used, they're just not as effective. Warp ammo sure is though.

Warp Ammo...yeah, not a huge fan, I much prefer Tungsten. That with the Widow and Assassin Cloak. It's like one shot, one overkill. And I love it.

I love shockwave for husks, but that's about where my interest in Jack ends. Have I mentioned how much I hate shotguns? She is about my least favorite combination of everything.


Threatened to kill you did she?

If she met me when the mission was over, yeah. We saw how well that worked out with Nihlus, so I'm not convinced that that's a threat she's capable of carrying out. I'll make every effort to keep her alive for my main playthrough. Just to see what happens.


Really. I was very disappointed that they couldn't seem to get the Sheppard voice actors back to actually record proper conversations with him. There's another DLC character on the way to, you can already see her in the character screen if you manipulate certain game files though obviously she's not usable yet. I wonder if they're just going to do the same sort of thing with her.

Yeah, Kasumi. There's a news report about her on Illium, I think it was.


Maybe I'm thinking of some other play through then because I didn't have anyone's picture on my desk.

Really? I'm not sure what to think now. I may just make a playthrough to test it out myself.


I heard the exact opposite really. That they never made her a romance option because they didn't think anyone would want to romance a girl with "chicken feet".

I'm almost positive that she was planned to be a romance option, but some of the developers raised the concern of the "chicken feet" and that pretty much ended that plan.


They really need to just put in some kind of conversation thread near the end with all the potential romance interests where you can undo any sort of romance "points" or whatever you may have unwittingly built up with them.

It could even be fun. Range it from "it's not you it's me, no really" if you're a paragon to "oh my god you and me, no seriously you thought that.... oh god I need a shower" for renegade.

I laughed at the Renegade one.

Ouroboros
March 4th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Yeah, I know how it works now. This playthrough was before (Dusty?) announced how the deaths worked. In hindsight, it was a pretty stupid move (and I'm not sure what I was thinking then).

Well I already owned up to the Zaeed thing but my monumentally stupid move in my first playthrough was thinking that Chakwas could metal gear solid her way back to the Normandy without an escort or a weapon.

I would pay extra for that to be a DLC like the Joker mission.


That's...interesting. What exactly does Garrus have to say? And how does he say it? I know he expresses his concerns over Shepard working for Cerberus, but he seemed to be one of the ones to set aside his doubts and trust in his commander.

I've never heard it myself. I got all the ship upgrades so nobody died in the cutscene for me. I'm surprised you didn't end up hearing it.


At least Garrus actually wears armor, unlike certain other characters.

Yeah that bugged me to. "Hey guy's we're headed for some hard Vacuum, don't forget your scuba masks."

I think Garrus and Tali really are the only ones in the whole game with a proper airtight suit. Zaeed get's a helmet but his entire arm is exposed, same story with Grunt.

Oh well this give me a chuckle bringing Jack to the migrant fleet though. Here you've got Shep all sealed up so as not to spread any of his deadly human diseases to the poor fragile Quarians and Jack is just like, "What?! I'm wearing my mask!".


Warp Ammo...yeah, not a huge fan, I much prefer Tungsten. That with the Widow and Assassin Cloak. It's like one shot, one overkill. And I love it.

I went with warp because it's a global damage boost against everything but shields I think.


I love shockwave for husks, but that's about where my interest in Jack ends. Have I mentioned how much I hate shotguns? She is about my least favorite combination of everything.

Shotguns are ass, I won't defend them. The new DLC one isn't bad but they still spread out by a ridiculous amount and those are some of the slowest hypersonic projectiles I've ever seen.

That's one thing that really bothers me about the gunplay in this one in general. I remember in ME1 how when you fired your weapon it was basically an instant hit. The flight time was imperceptible just like you'd expect reading the codex description of what the weapons are like. Now in this one I actually have to lead a Vorcha by like a meter with my pistol if he's more than 20 feet away. ME1 weapons felt powerful, ME2 weapons feel more like nerfguns with inexplicably high recoil to me, especially the shotguns.


If she met me when the mission was over, yeah. We saw how well that worked out with Nihlus, so I'm not convinced that that's a threat she's capable of carrying out. I'll make every effort to keep her alive for my main playthrough. Just to see what happens.

I've never got far enough in the dialog with her to get to that point.


Yeah, Kasumi. There's a news report about her on Illium, I think it was.

You can even get her to appear in the final cutscene apparently. She takes either Jack or Tali's place in dying, but it looks like what I hope is just a placeholder model.


Really? I'm not sure what to think now. I may just make a playthrough to test it out myself.

I had no picture for sure, I just can't remember with 100% certainty if that Shepard was the same one that turned her down at the end or just didn't talk to her period. I made one but then remade him because his face was just pissing me off too much to take him through 3 games.

That would be another suggestion I'd offer up to the Dev team for part 3. Let the player

-Create a new face right from the title screen not have to play through a 10 minute opening sequence first.

-Tweek their created face after the tutorial mission because the face always looks different in the character creator than in the actual game.

-View the created Shepard as a game model fully zoomed out before accepting the face

-Have buttons to run through some basic facial expressions so they can see how the face will move.

-Have a light source to toggle on/off on one side of the face creator sreen so they can see how shadows will fall on the face and check for really sharp edges.


I'm almost positive that she was planned to be a romance option, but some of the developers raised the concern of the "chicken feet" and that pretty much ended that plan.

Honestly, Liara being the only Asari in the universe with eyebrows bothered me a lot more than the chickenfeet. I want to be able to ask her about it in part 3.

Paragon: So I've noticed something different about you Liara...

Neutral: So Liara, why do you have eyebrows

Renegade: So, did someone attack you with a sharpie the first time you "fainted" or something, you know you can wash that off.

Renegade interrupt: Throw her in a headlock, lick your thumb, and try to rub it off.

Alan Wake
March 4th, 2010, 08:22 PM
Hey guys, I've been wondering... how do you want the 3rd game to open?

I've been thinking about it a lot, and here's my take on how they should introduce the next installment.

I'd really like the game to open up with them already in the war with the reapers.

I think that'd be a great way to introduce it. They're attacking planets all over the place, humans/other races are dieing and they can't defeat them because of the mass numbers.

I'd even love to see the citadel destroyed and you lose some familiar faces from all the games previous. Anderson can die in the downfall, trying to be a hero. Hell, even an attack on earth would be cool. it would add so much depth to the story if we lost our world.

Then through this, you ( the character ) sets out on a final quest to find a way to stop them... but the task is really impossible because the reapers are all over space, and all hope already seems lost.

I thought this would be a cool way to start the game.

Maybe it should be like, 4 months into the war or something.

DigiFluid
March 4th, 2010, 10:44 PM
I absolutely want ME3 to open with the war already in progress. I have no idea how I want it to progress after that, but I know for sure I want an epic last stand as the final mission in the game.

For that, I'm thinking either
- Earth, using the Prothean home/megaweapon route
- Eden Prime, for the same reason + full circle to where the trilogy started
- the Citadel, because it's the Reapers' own device



Oh and AW, I forgot to tell you earlier: I love your sig. I laugh every time I see it :D

Alan Wake
March 4th, 2010, 11:06 PM
I absolutely want ME3 to open with the war already in progress. I have no idea how I want it to progress after that, but I know for sure I want an epic last stand as the final mission in the game.

For that, I'm thinking either
- Earth, using the Prothean home/megaweapon route
- Eden Prime, for the same reason + full circle to where the trilogy started
- the Citadel, because it's the Reapers' own device



Oh and AW, I forgot to tell you earlier: I love your sig. I laugh every time I see it :D

I like the last idea. a bit of irony. or perhaps we don't defeat them... but only mange to stop them.

Kinda like the Matrix ending. they'll still be "around"

I'd actually like to meet a reaper who isn't "evil", who's maybe good... and wants to stop the other machines.

Ouroboros
March 5th, 2010, 03:32 AM
Hey guys, I've been wondering... how do you want the 3rd game to open?

I've been thinking about it a lot, and here's my take on how they should introduce the next installment.

I'd really like the game to open up with them already in the war with the reapers.

I think that'd be a great way to introduce it. They're attacking planets all over the place, humans/other races are dieing and they can't defeat them because of the mass numbers.

I'd even love to see the citadel destroyed and you lose some familiar faces from all the games previous. Anderson can die in the downfall, trying to be a hero. Hell, even an attack on earth would be cool. it would add so much depth to the story if we lost our world.

Then through this, you ( the character ) sets out on a final quest to find a way to stop them... but the task is really impossible because the reapers are all over space, and all hope already seems lost.

I thought this would be a cool way to start the game.

Maybe it should be like, 4 months into the war or something.

The main thing I want from ME3 is just not to have to gather a whole new team again. Not only do I like the characters they've already got and don't see any need to push them out in favor of starting from scratch again, I also just don't want to have to do that again.

This is going to be the final part of the story so it would seem awfully stupid if you're still not prepared again because the 20 some reliable people you already know were wisked away by plot magic.

My other major hope is a party system that'll let you use more than 2 characters at once.

In terms of plot I don't really have a lot that I think "absolutely must happen" or anything. I mainly just don't want some sort of bull**** Independance day/ark of truth type ending where I have to upload a virus to Harbinger to make all the reapers die.

I want instead to have to fly around the galaxy gathering up all my allies to kick reaper ass. There was a reason I didn't kill that Rachni queen, hacked those Geth, made friends with Aria, kept Wrex alive to lead the Krogan, preserved the collector base, got the Quarians looking at Tali as a new potential Admiral, and put Anderson on the citadel council.

Pretty much every action I've taken with my main Sheppard was based around the idea of needing to gather strength and allies for the coming war. If I get ripped off by some sort of "upload virus to winz" nonsense I'm going to be a little annoyed.

I even killed the original council off because I was convinced by the end of the first game that their tiresome drag assing and stern commitment to total inaction would spell the doom of all sentient life.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 5th, 2010, 04:03 AM
The main thing I want from ME3 is just not to have to gather a whole new team again. Not only do I like the characters they've already got and don't see any need to push them out in favor of starting from scratch again, I also just don't want to have to do that again.

This is going to be the final part of the story so it would seem awfully stupid if you're still not prepared again because the 20 some reliable people you already know were wisked away by plot magic.

My other major hope is a party system that'll let you use more than 2 characters at once.

In terms of plot I don't really have a lot that I think "absolutely must happen" or anything. I mainly just don't want some sort of bull**** Independance day/ark of truth type ending where I have to upload a virus to Harbinger to make all the reapers die.

I want instead to have to fly around the galaxy gathering up all my allies to kick reaper ass. There was a reason I didn't kill that Rachni queen, hacked those Geth, made friends with Aria, kept Wrex alive to lead the Krogan, preserved the collector base, got the Quarians looking at Tali as a new potential Admiral, and put Anderson on the citadel council.

Pretty much every action I've taken with my main Sheppard was based around the idea of needing to gather strength and allies for the coming war. If I get ripped off by some sort of "upload virus to winz" nonsense I'm going to be a little annoyed.

I even killed the original council off because I was convinced by the end of the first game that their tiresome drag assing and stern commitment to total inaction would spell the doom of all sentient life.

I think there's been plenty of set up, like with the rachni, or the krogan, that you'll be collecting allies to fight the reapers. Anyone remember Mordin's mission with the Genophage and how it could be fixed, I reckon that's going to be important in ME 3. Lovely moral choice of whether you want to led horde's or Krogan out again.

I just hope after Mass Effect 3 we still get more Mass Effect stuff. Some things don't need sequels, there isn't scope for it, but with Mass Effect they've built a whole universe that's as rich as Star Trek, Star Wars or Star Gate, and I want to keep exploring it.

Ouroboros
March 5th, 2010, 04:26 AM
I think there's been plenty of set up, like with the rachni, or the krogan, that you'll be collecting allies to fight the reapers. Anyone remember Mordin's mission with the Genophage and how it could be fixed, I reckon that's going to be important in ME 3. Lovely moral choice of whether you want to led horde's or Krogan out again.

I saved the cure. At the very least I can threaten the council with the return of the Krogan horde if they try and drag ass on me again. "You can fight the Reapers or you can fight the Krogan but you bureaucratic *******s are going to be fighting a war, one way or the other."


I just hope after Mass Effect 3 we still get more Mass Effect stuff. Some things don't need sequels, there isn't scope for it, but with Mass Effect they've built a whole universe that's as rich as Star Trek, Star Wars or Star Gate, and I want to keep exploring it.

It's funny, after the first game I thought MEverse was a nice example of my country finally doing something right in terms of entertainment for once, but ultimately not particularly stand out from the sci-fi crowd. Some elements of the setting were pretty stock and generic, but others like the thought put into how mass effect fields worked and the space combat in the codex really impressed me. Part 2 has elevated it above any of those settings you mentioned for me.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 5th, 2010, 06:05 AM
It's funny, after the first game I thought MEverse was a nice example of my country finally doing something right in terms of entertainment for once, but ultimately not particularly stand out from the sci-fi crowd. Some elements of the setting were pretty stock and generic, but others like the thought put into how mass effect fields worked and the space combat in the codex really impressed me. Part 2 has elevated it above any of those settings you mentioned for me.

I think the Mass Effect universe while not particularly original, stands out by using scifi tropes in interesting ways and having a well developed and believable universe. One of the great things about it is that none of the races have a "hat," you know how in star Trek all the races have one defining feature, Vulcans are logical, Romulans are devious, Klingons are all about fighting. It wasn't believable, how do the Klingons maintain an advanced society if everyone's concerned with shouting lots and fighting, they'd implode as a society. Where as in Mass Effect many of the races are not defined by one feature, while yes in the Universe the Asari are big on diplomacy, Salarians big on espionage and the Turians big on war it's not all they do. You meet diplomats from all 3 races, soldiers from all 3 races, merchants from all 3, you meet an undercover Turian in Chora's den in the first game as well as Salarians doing sneaky stuff, believably all these races are multifaceted.

Some of the more minor races are slightly less developed but as the games progress we learn more about them, for instance the Hanar just seemed to be weird jellyfish with a thing about preaching about the Protheans. Except of course you find in Mass Effect 2 thane Thane, the Drell assassin was employed by them and they clearly weren't just the innocent jellyfish your thought they might be.

The closest you get to a one note race is the Krogan in my opinion and even that's subverted beautifully. They are almost the equivalent of Klingons in Mass Effect, proud warrior race, all about the fighting, Michael Dorn voices one of them :P but of course Mass Effect shows how self destructive a society that would be, with the Krogans behaviour constantly leading to their near extinction.

Ouroboros
March 5th, 2010, 07:46 AM
I think the Mass Effect universe while not particularly original, stands out by using scifi tropes in interesting ways and having a well developed and believable universe. One of the great things about it is that none of the races have a "hat," you know how in star Trek all the races have one defining feature, Vulcans are logical, Romulans are devious, Klingons are all about fighting. It wasn't believable, how do the Klingons maintain an advanced society if everyone's concerned with shouting lots and fighting, they'd implode as a society. Where as in Mass Effect many of the races are not defined by one feature, while yes in the Universe the Asari are big on diplomacy, Salarians big on espionage and the Turians big on war it's not all they do. You meet diplomats from all 3 races, soldiers from all 3 races, merchants from all 3, you meet an undercover Turian in Chora's den in the first game as well as Salarians doing sneaky stuff, believably all these races are multifaceted.

The Asari probably bothered me the most. Since they just seemed like such obvious nerdbait fanservice. A race of "aliens" that are all attractive females and go out of their way to mate with other species. Then ME2 had the Asari bartender and I'm cool with Asari now.

I wanted her on the ship so bad, to the point I would have gladly traded away multiple other characters to do it. If ME3 offers up some sort of opportunity to nominate new council members for the various species there's just no way I can see them coming up with an Asari I'd pick over her.

Between her and Aria the Asari took a big step up in my book in ME2.


Some of the more minor races are slightly less developed but as the games progress we learn more about them, for instance the Hanar just seemed to be weird jellyfish with a thing about preaching about the Protheans. Except of course you find in Mass Effect 2 thane Thane, the Drell assassin was employed by them and they clearly weren't just the innocent jellyfish your thought they might be.

Zaeed's also got a story about being strangled by one and how he'll never underestimate them again. Apparently they're freakishly fast and strong, they just get slowed down a lot when they're not in water. The fact they also train up pseudo religious assassins came as a bit of a surprise to.


The closest you get to a one note race is the Krogan in my opinion and even that's subverted beautifully. They are almost the equivalent of Klingons in Mass Effect, proud warrior race, all about the fighting, Michael Dorn voices one of them :P but of course Mass Effect shows how self destructive a society that would be, with the Krogans behaviour constantly leading to their near extinction.

I liked O'keer to. I was disappointed when it ended up I wasn't going to get him for my team. ME2 did a lot for the Krogans just like the Asari. Mordin's loyalty mission and that Krogan talking about his son really brought home their "human" side if you will.

Oranos
March 5th, 2010, 08:56 AM
Well, my flight landed, I'm rested and ready to respond.


Well I already owned up to the Zaeed thing but my monumentally stupid move in my first playthrough was thinking that Chakwas could metal gear solid her way back to the Normandy without an escort or a weapon.

I would pay extra for that to be a DLC like the Joker mission.

I laughed. A lot. The people in the airport thought I was crazy or something.

It doesn't sound that stupid--well, maybe it does. As I recall, they head back the way you came. You pretty much cleared that area out; you'd think they'd be able to manage on their own.


I've never heard it myself. I got all the ship upgrades so nobody died in the cutscene for me. I'm surprised you didn't end up hearing it.

I should have. I didn't do that upgrade and Jack died. I don't know, I was probably with a friend and distracted, maybe.


Yeah that bugged me to. "Hey guy's we're headed for some hard Vacuum, don't forget your scuba masks."

At least with the first game--one of the things it did better--everyone had armor, when needed, and a helmet.


Oh well this give me a chuckle bringing Jack to the migrant fleet though. Here you've got Shep all sealed up so as not to spread any of his deadly human diseases to the poor fragile Quarians and Jack is just like, "What?! I'm wearing my mask!".

It's the reason I have to bring Garrus there.

...Or Legion. :p Even if both ways leave me without a biotic.


I went with warp because it's a global damage boost against everything but shields I think.

That sounds right. Tungsten, on the other hand, cuts through armor and has a massive damage boost (which includes enemies without a defense, I believe). It also has a nifty animation.


I've never got far enough in the dialog with her to get to that point.

That story was awesome; you'll love it when you hear it. It made me want Nihlus on my squad again...if Saren hadn't been a complete jerk and shot him in the back.


You can even get her to appear in the final cutscene apparently. She takes either Jack or Tali's place in dying, but it looks like what I hope is just a placeholder model.

I've seen that. That looks nothing like her on the squad selection screen.


Honestly, Liara being the only Asari in the universe with eyebrows bothered me a lot more than the chickenfeet. I want to be able to ask her about it in part 3.

At first I thought it was something that purebloods had in common. Of course, that theory was kind of blown out of the water in ME2.

As for how I want Mass Effect 3 to start...

Screw the war, save that for Mass Effect 4. I want the Council to declare me a rogue Spectre. :p

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 5th, 2010, 05:48 PM
The Asari probably bothered me the most. Since they just seemed like such obvious nerdbait fanservice. A race of "aliens" that are all attractive females and go out of their way to mate with other species. Then ME2 had the Asari bartender and I'm cool with Asari now.

I wanted her on the ship so bad, to the point I would have gladly traded away multiple other characters to do it. If ME3 offers up some sort of opportunity to nominate new council members for the various species there's just no way I can see them coming up with an Asari I'd pick over her.

Between her and Aria the Asari took a big step up in my book in ME2.



Zaeed's also got a story about being strangled by one and how he'll never underestimate them again. Apparently they're freakishly fast and strong, they just get slowed down a lot when they're not in water. The fact they also train up pseudo religious assassins came as a bit of a surprise to.



I liked O'keer to. I was disappointed when it ended up I wasn't going to get him for my team. ME2 did a lot for the Krogans just like the Asari. Mordin's loyalty mission and that Krogan talking about his son really brought home their "human" side if you will.

Really every race in Mass Effect is developing nicely, even the small titbits in the codex add to it. The codex for example reveals that Elcor soldiers can mount heavy weapons on their shoulders, I really want to see that in Mass Effect 3, and again in the course of the games we meet Elcor diplomats, Elcor merchants, hell there's even an Elcor bouncer on Omega. Even the Vorcha, whose primary role seems to be dumb cannon fodder get a little bit of development, you can have an encounter with some peaceful Vorcha on omega who just want to stay out of trouble and there are news reports about turning Vorcha into productive members of society.

There are only a couple of one note races really, the reapers being one of them, but seeing as how their supposed to be unknowable cosmic space horrors that's kind of a given. The only race whose development hasn't been great is the Volus. They seem to have become the sought of space bankers, I hope they get further development as well.

s09119
March 5th, 2010, 06:54 PM
Really every race in Mass Effect is developing nicely, even the small titbits in the codex add to it. The codex for example reveals that Elcor soldiers can mount heavy weapons on their shoulders, I really want to see that in Mass Effect 3, and again in the course of the games we meet Elcor diplomats, Elcor merchants, hell there's even an Elcor bouncer on Omega. Even the Vorcha, whose primary role seems to be dumb cannon fodder get a little bit of development, you can have an encounter with some peaceful Vorcha on omega who just want to stay out of trouble and there are news reports about turning Vorcha into productive members of society.

There are only a couple of one note races really, the reapers being one of them, but seeing as how their supposed to be unknowable comic space horrors that's kind of a given. The only race whose development hasn't been great is the Volus. They seem to have become the sought of space bankers, I hope they get further development as well.

As a few characters point out, though, the vorcha are closer to being talking dogs than a true sentient species themselves...

Also, one thing I love is how in ME races' names aren't capitalized, much as we don't do so for "human." It drives me insane in other franchises, Stargate included, where a species. name is capitalized by our own isn't. ME gets it right, and the only races with capitalized names are ones who don't have proper real names; "Reapers," "Protheans," etc.

Ouroboros
March 8th, 2010, 11:27 PM
I laughed. A lot. The people in the airport thought I was crazy or something.

It doesn't sound that stupid--well, maybe it does. As I recall, they head back the way you came. You pretty much cleared that area out; you'd think they'd be able to manage on their own.

Sadly this was also my thinking. "If those Salarian officer workers could make it...". It was also convinced the game would screw over whoever I sent with some sort of ambush scenario where they'd die protecting Chakwas' escape.


At least with the first game--one of the things it did better--everyone had armor, when needed, and a helmet.

Yeah, I was kind of disappointed by the inability to buy new armour/customise the look of the other party characters in this one. The claimed "customization" for Sheppard's armour was also very underwhelming and all the DLC armour's thus far are useless by virtue of not having a helmet toggle.

Really does a lot for the setting immersion to watch Sheppard pour a drink all over his faceplate or have all these people from his past immediately recognize him by their fond familiarity with his cold anonymous mask.


It's the reason I have to bring Garrus there.

It was a pretty :rolleyes: moment for me not seeing a single Quarian without a suit on even in their own ships, or in any of those video recordings, or in the codex or by just asking someone old enough like Samara or Wrex what they used to look like.


That sounds right. Tungsten, on the other hand, cuts through armor and has a massive damage boost (which includes enemies without a defense, I believe). It also has a nifty animation.

One might be better than the other depending on what class you played. I played soldier the first time so didn't need another ammo power and used Warp on an adept. On an adept it's extra effective since it does double damage on anything being effected by biotics. Since adept strategy in this is basically throwing down singularities then shooting the people while they're helpless before blowing it all up with a warp, warp ammo helped speeds things alone immensely.


That story was awesome; you'll love it when you hear it. It made me want Nihlus on my squad again...if Saren hadn't been a complete jerk and shot him in the back.

I think I'm going to wait for that new DLC at then end of the month before diving into the game again but I'll definitely try to get her earlier and talk to her more this time.


Screw the war, save that for Mass Effect 4. I want the Council to declare me a rogue Spectre. :p

... and if you've managed to keep him alive through the other two games they send Conrad and an "elite" team assembled by him to track you down in some sort of shortbus version of you vs Saren in ME1.


Really every race in Mass Effect is developing nicely, even the small titbits in the codex add to it. The codex for example reveals that Elcor soldiers can mount heavy weapons on their shoulders, I really want to see that in Mass Effect 3, and again in the course of the games we meet Elcor diplomats, Elcor merchants, hell there's even an Elcor bouncer on Omega. Even the Vorcha, whose primary role seems to be dumb cannon fodder get a little bit of development, you can have an encounter with some peaceful Vorcha on omega who just want to stay out of trouble and there are news reports about turning Vorcha into productive members of society.

There are only a couple of one note races really, the reapers being one of them, but seeing as how their supposed to be unknowable comic space horrors that's kind of a given. The only race whose development hasn't been great is the Volus. They seem to have become the sought of space bankers, I hope they get further development as well.

I like the Volus as individual characters in almost every case though. They are the obvious comic releif choice right now though, and it's true they don't really have much backstory.

I hope we get some of the more weird aliens as squad members in 3. One outcome I'd like to see is Sheppard organizing an alliance between all of these other species the council has either marginalized or otherwise kept out of the coolkids club and using them to save the galaxy.

Oranos
March 11th, 2010, 05:01 PM
For those of you who still haven't seen it, there's a new heavy weapon out: the arc projector.

But perhaps of more interest is Kasumi. As I promised, I come with news of our female thief. Just be sure to scroll down the page, it's near the end.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/11/mass-effect-2-dlc-kasumis-stolen-memory-lands-on-apr-6-

DigiFluid
March 11th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Or to simplify, http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/11/mass-effect-2-dlc-kasumis-stolen-memory-lands-on-apr-6-don/

:p

gotthammer
March 11th, 2010, 05:58 PM
I hope it's a free DLC...or the same as Return to Ostagar, price-wise.

s09119
March 11th, 2010, 06:02 PM
Their decision make all the DLC absolutely free so far is really earning back my trust after the crap they gave us for ME1 at jacked up prices. It's a fantastic deal, and the stuff they're asking me to pay for (Kasumi, hovertank, etc.) all looks very useful and interesting. BioWare just gets better and better.

gotthammer
March 11th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Their decision make all the DLC absolutely free so far is really earning back my trust after the crap they dols us for ME1 at jacked up prices. It's a fantastic deal, and the stuff they're asking me to pay for (Kasumi, hovertank, etc.) all looks very useful and interesting. BioWare just gets better and better.

Weren't there only 2 DLCs for ME1, and BDtS was free, wasn't it?

Oranos
March 11th, 2010, 11:14 PM
Or to simplify, http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/11/mass-effect-2-dlc-kasumis-stolen-memory-lands-on-apr-6-don/

:p

Stop trying to steal my thunder. :p

Sorry, I'm clearly distracted and not thinking straight, or else I probably would have linked directly to the article. Watching the awesomeness that is Psych's season finale, "Mr. Yin Presents," for about the millionth time. I think we all know how these obsessions work. ;)


Weren't there only 2 DLCs for ME1, and BDtS was free, wasn't it?

Bring Down the Sky and Pinnacle Station, yes. The former was free, the latter--surprisingly, because it was worse--was not.

Oranos
March 12th, 2010, 03:01 PM
Here's some more information on Kasumi and her mission (and some other tidbits). And some nifty pictures of her.

http://kotaku.com/5492103/mass-effect-2-dlc-adds-90-minutes-more-earth-teases

gotthammer
March 13th, 2010, 04:22 AM
nice to finally see some real screens of the character. again, I just hope it's either free or 'reasonably' priced. btw, was there word of who's doing the voice for the character?

dang...I really need to finish up that ME1 playthrough so I can get back to ME2...
*shakes fist at fanfic writers and grumbles about fanfics eating up his game time* :D

s09119
March 13th, 2010, 09:05 AM
Here's some more information on Kasumi and her mission (and some other tidbits). And some nifty pictures of her.

http://kotaku.com/5492103/mass-effect-2-dlc-adds-90-minutes-more-earth-teases

I was hoping she'd be more of the obnoxiously attractive femme fatale vein... but this works too.

gotthammer
March 13th, 2010, 10:49 AM
Nuts. I was hoping that, for a paid DLC, she'd be at least a character you can initiate dialogue with...instead, apparently, she'll be just like Zaeed. *shrugs*
Oh well, as long as it's cheap. :D

Oranos
March 13th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Nuts. I was hoping that, for a paid DLC, she'd be at least a character you can initiate dialogue with...instead, apparently, she'll be just like Zaeed. *shrugs*
Oh well, as long as it's cheap. :D

Rumor has it that she'll be $7.

gotthammer
March 14th, 2010, 12:02 AM
that's fine, I guess. RtO was 5$, right? and that didn't really add much to DA:O.

Oranos
March 19th, 2010, 01:44 PM
Some more confimred DLC.

http://masseffect.bioware.com/info/dlc/

Is that fully repaired armor for Garrus that I see? ;)

s09119
March 19th, 2010, 01:59 PM
Some more confimred DLC.

http://masseffect.bioware.com/info/dlc/

Is that fully repaired armor for Garrus that I see? ;)

The Jack outfit looks sweet, but what's up with the stupid-looking glasses? She looks like she has duct tape over her eyes.

Oranos
March 19th, 2010, 02:07 PM
The Jack outfit looks sweet, but what's up with the stupid-looking glasses? She looks like she has duct tape over her eyes.

Here I was anticipating a comment about Horatio Thane. :p

Even so, that's by far Jack's best outfit yet.

And Garrus...can wear anything and successfully pull it off. Not that I think his armor is bad, because it isn't. It's actually pretty sweet.

gotthammer
March 19th, 2010, 04:33 PM
Here I was anticipating a comment about Horatio Thane. :p

Even so, that's by far Jack's best outfit yet.

And Garrus...can wear anything and successfully pull it off. Not that I think his armor is bad, because it isn't. It's actually pretty sweet.

Hehehe. The Horatio thread in the BW boards...is it still alive? :D
Nice outfits, but, IMHO, the 'fixed' Garrus armor should have been part of the retail game (i.e., as the loyalty mission unlockable). Oh well, no biggie, since it's just cosmetic anyway. :D

Oranos
March 19th, 2010, 04:53 PM
Hehehe. The Horatio thread in the BW boards...is it still alive? :D

Are you serious? Someone actually beat me to the Horatio Thane reference?

Oh well, it was good and original while it lasted (for a few brief hours). And at least I can play Mass Effect CSI! Thanks for making this dream possible, BioWare. :D


Nice outfits, but, IMHO, the 'fixed' Garrus armor should have been part of the retail game (i.e., as the loyalty mission unlockable). Oh well, no biggie, since it's just cosmetic anyway. :D

I'll probably get this pack just for his armor, although it's going to be odd not having his trademark blue eyepiece going on.

Maybe Jack's, but that's only because I hate her other options. But I use her so rarely I'd not get much use out of it.

gotthammer
March 19th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Are you serious? Someone actually beat me to the Horatio Thane reference?

Oh well, it was good and original while it lasted (for a few brief hours). And at least I can play Mass Effect CSI! Thanks for making this dream possible, BioWare. :D


Hehehe. Well there was (is?) this long running thread w/ Horatio Caine one-liners followed by the intro 'scream' thingy... not sure about Horatio Thane, tho'. :valaanime06:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1012800
...yup...still alive. Last post was 5 hrs. ago. :valaanime06:

Oranos
March 19th, 2010, 05:39 PM
Hehehe. Well there was (is?) this long running thread w/ Horatio Caine one-liners followed by the intro 'scream' thingy... not sure about Horatio Thane, tho'. :valaanime06:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1012800
...yup...still alive. Last post was 5 hrs. ago. :valaanime06:

That's freakin' awesome. Now I want to have my entire team sporting a pair of shades.

Shepard: Jacob, where your shades at, man?
Jacob: No way, dude. I'm not sporting the shades. I look enough like Kanye West without adding those into the mix.
Shepard: But we're looking for Horatio Thane's son. It's a page straight out of CSI: Miami.
Jack: You're such a *****, Jacob. Just put on the ******* shades. ****. Is it that ******* hard?
Mordin: Jack's combat ability impressive. Odds of survival low. Wish to reconsider, Jacob?
Jacob: Maybe being Kanye isn't such a bad thing, after all. But what about everyone else?
Zaeed: Your Illusive Man can move a lot of credits. Let's go be ******* crime scene investigators.
Grunt: I don't care what I wear as long as I get to kill someone.
Garrus: I think I'll pass on this one, guys. I have some calibrations to take care of.

Oranos
March 19th, 2010, 07:46 PM
I tried to leave. But then I found this.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/kasumi-trailer-mass-effect/63465

DigiFluid
March 20th, 2010, 12:53 AM
Argh.

DLC is such a pain. Not because it's bad, you see. But because I'm a total sucker for any and all DLC that BioWare can throw at me :p

Alan Wake
March 20th, 2010, 01:19 AM
Argh.

DLC is such a pain. Not because it's bad, you see. But because I'm a total sucker for any and all DLC that BioWare can throw at me :p

Even horse armor?

DigiFluid
March 20th, 2010, 01:24 AM
I'm sure BioWare could make it work somehow :D

Ouroboros
March 20th, 2010, 03:46 AM
The Jack outfit looks sweet, but what's up with the stupid-looking glasses? She looks like she has duct tape over her eyes.

Well now, seems Jack is gradually completing her transformation into a female Helghast. Though she already did have a head start with the "do".

In any case this fits into my long term plans for insidious human domination marvelously.:D

Oranos
March 20th, 2010, 08:39 AM
DLC is such a pain. Not because it's bad, you see. But because I'm a total sucker for any and all DLC that BioWare can throw at me :p

New paint job for the Normandy? :p

gotthammer
March 20th, 2010, 08:58 AM
New paint job for the Normandy? :p

A new ship would be nice. :D
I still want something bigger (dreadnought, carrier, cruiser, whatever :D )...and it should carry over to ME3. :D
(a customizable ship, including paint scheme, would be super)

Oranos
March 20th, 2010, 03:29 PM
A new ship would be nice. :D
I still want something bigger (dreadnought, carrier, cruiser, whatever :D )...and it should carry over to ME3. :D
(a customizable ship, including paint scheme, would be super)

Isn't the SR-2 a cruiser?

gotthammer
March 20th, 2010, 05:51 PM
I thought it was a Frigate? (the class that's supposed to operate in wolfpacks?)
Sure, the SR-2 is twice the size of the SR-1, but I think it's still not big enough (and has a different role?) to be considered a 'Cruiser'.
That and it's still called the 'Normandy' (which follows the Frigate naming convention).

Oranos
March 20th, 2010, 06:12 PM
I thought it was a Frigate? (the class that's supposed to operate in wolfpacks?)
Sure, the SR-2 is twice the size of the SR-1, but I think it's still not big enough (and has a different role?) to be considered a 'Cruiser'.
That and it's still called the 'Normandy' (which follows the Frigate naming convention).

Cruisers operate in wolfpacks too--they just tend to lead them. They're larger, more heavily armed and cannot enter a planet's atmosphere. It sounds like the SR-2 would fit in this group quite nicely. At least, from the information I remember (and I don't have the game's codex available to me, nor do I recall what it has to say on the matter).

That's the Alliance's system. Cerberus isn't the Alliance (it used to be, sure, and there's the conspiracy theories that it still is, but that's a different matter). Shepard and Joker can name the SR-2 whatever they want.

I used to learn towards the Normandy being a frigate, but I've been thinking more and more that it's a cruiser.

gotthammer
March 21st, 2010, 06:01 AM
I want a Battleship...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPoNTjwPb5w
:D

This one is a bit short, tho' (around 1/4th the size of ME's dreadnoughts, I think...still... :D )
But something along this line. :D

Aaaand before someone starts arguing along the lines of Carriers > Gun-platform-type ships (i.e., BBs or Dreads), I actually like carriers (some my fondest gaming memories are of two carriers, named the Tiger's Claw and the Concordia :D ...tho' I think my all-time favourite 'space sim', 'Tie Fighter', had a better 'carrier'...an Imperial-class Star Destroyer :D ). I just think big ships w/ lotsa guns are cooler. :D

Rodney_Mckay
March 22nd, 2010, 02:29 AM
Finished the first Mass Effect at 00:00 exactly (sat-sun transistion).When the credits were rolling I was just.. O_O

Well...Mass Effect 2 started up 5 minutes later :o

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 22nd, 2010, 03:17 AM
Finished the first Mass Effect at 00:00 exactly (sat-sun transistion).When the credits were rolling I was just.. O_O

Well...Mass Effect 2 started up 5 minutes later :o

And your total addiction begins :D

gotthammer
March 22nd, 2010, 01:48 PM
And your total addiction begins :D

Well, the 2 ME games aren't that long...so I don't think the 'addiction' is so bad... :D
(heck, I think Dragon Age is longer than both ME 1 & ME 2 combined)

Trying to finish a grand strategy game encompassing the pre-war to the post WW2 eras, and where a lot of the times you're looking at your country's industry figures...now that's bad. :valaanime06:
I could say the same about *shudder* Civilization and games of that sort.
Gah. I shouldn't have reminded myself of Civ...musn't...re-install... :D

jds1982
March 28th, 2010, 05:46 PM
So can someone answer a question for me. I was reading the Mass Effect Wiki entry for carriers, and it said how Commander Shepard says that carriers are an example of humans thinking outside of the box. What is that from? Is it one of the games or a book, because I have no recollection of it.

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 29th, 2010, 07:03 PM
So can someone answer a question for me. I was reading the Mass Effect Wiki entry for carriers, and it said how Commander Shepard says that carriers are an example of humans thinking outside of the box. What is that from? Is it one of the games or a book, because I have no recollection of it.

Might just be the wiki that’s wrong (wouldn’t be the first time, the stargate wiki is an entire website of mistakes). I seem to remember the mention of thinking outside the box comes from the codex entry.

Alan Wake
March 30th, 2010, 05:54 PM
Mass Effect 1 & 2 are my favorite games of all time by Bioware.

I'm looking forward to the 3rd, and final game to the series.

magictrick
March 30th, 2010, 07:24 PM
Mass Effect 1 & 2 are my favorite games of all time by Bioware.

I'm looking forward to the 3rd, and final game to the series.

Has it been confirmed that the 3rd will be the last? I recall reading about this somewhere, but can't remember what website it was.

I loved ME 1 & 2, 2 of my favourite games I think, but I just couldn't get into Dragon Age at all. Anyone else feel the same?

Oranos
March 30th, 2010, 07:49 PM
Has it been confirmed that the 3rd will be the last? I recall reading about this somewhere, but can't remember what website it was.

For Commander Shepard, 3 will be the end of his story. But Mass Effect should still be around in some shape or form.

DigiFluid
March 30th, 2010, 07:53 PM
I loved ME 1 & 2, 2 of my favourite games I think, but I just couldn't get into Dragon Age at all. Anyone else feel the same?
Nope. I took forever to buy it because generally I loathe any non-Tolkien fantasy. But now that I have bought it....my god. In 9 days I've logged 17 and a half hours and already bought the Awakening expansion on the strength of the game.

Definitely right up there among the best games I've played.

gotthammer
March 31st, 2010, 02:30 AM
Definitely right up there among the best games I've played.

:indeed:

My first playthrough was somewhere in the region of 110 hrs. :D

It could do w/ some polish, tho'. It would be awesome if BioWare gave it treatment similar to that given by CD Projekt Red to The Witcher after release (i.e., the patches, free upgrades and other goodies).

magictrick
March 31st, 2010, 09:51 AM
Nope. I took forever to buy it because generally I loathe any non-Tolkien fantasy. But now that I have bought it....my god. In 9 days I've logged 17 and a half hours and already bought the Awakening expansion on the strength of the game.

Definitely right up there among the best games I've played.

I also found it really buggy. I had one mission to defend the town from zombies, and the mission wouldn't end. I killed off all the zombies but nothing would happen. I had to replay the mission five or six times until it finally went through. And there were other bugs I encountered that just turned me away from it.
I might give it another go though since I feel like playing an RPG-type game.

Ouroboros
March 31st, 2010, 10:04 AM
Wow, I just learned that the kick as Asari Matriarch bartender Aethyta is voiced by none other than Claudia Black using a different accent.

She's turning into quite the talented voice actress.

The fact it's a bigger name like that who's already voicing other characters also means that the chances of Atheyta reappearing in ME3 just went from virtually zero to virtually zero +1!

The Mighty 6 platoon
March 31st, 2010, 02:15 PM
Wow, I just learned that the kick as Asari Matriarch bartender Aethyta is voiced by none other than Claudia Black using a different accent.

She's turning into quite the talented voice actress.

She is very good, she voiced an American character in Crysis, and it was very hard to tell it was her, I only knew she was in it when her name came up in the credits. She does a good American accent as well.

DigiFluid
March 31st, 2010, 02:31 PM
It would be awesome if BioWare gave it treatment similar to that given by CD Projekt Red to The Witcher after release (i.e., the patches, free upgrades and other goodies).
Well there is some. I got a bunch of freebies when I bought the Deluxe Ed. Then there's the dirt cheap Return to Ostagar addition (something like $5).


I also found it really buggy. I had one mission to defend the town from zombies, and the mission wouldn't end. I killed off all the zombies but nothing would happen. I had to replay the mission five or six times until it finally went through. And there were other bugs I encountered that just turned me away from it.
I might give it another go though since I feel like playing an RPG-type game.
Weird, I've had no bug/glitch problems of any kind.

Stewart5
April 1st, 2010, 06:06 PM
I love ME. A lot. I've read the novels, multi-play throughs etc. And I may be about to blaspheme, but I prefer ME1 to ME2. Sure, the combat is better. But there's a whole bunch of things I wish had made it to the second.

DigiFluid
April 1st, 2010, 07:53 PM
I love ME. A lot. I've read the novels, multi-play throughs etc. And I may be about to blaspheme, but I prefer ME1 to ME2. Sure, the combat is better. But there's a whole bunch of things I wish had made it to the second.
I think the main difference is in how they approached it. The volume of content is probably about on par; but where ME1 was a jug of fruit punch, ME2 is a can of fruit punch concentrate.

Stewart5
April 2nd, 2010, 05:19 AM
Hmmm....don't agree with that, actually. Sorry.

magictrick
April 2nd, 2010, 11:18 AM
Hmmm....don't agree with that, actually. Sorry.

What things from ME1 are you referring to?

I thought ME2 was just as good if not better. There were some bugs and glitches in ME1 that were fixed in ME2 and made the game really smooth.

Stewart5
April 2nd, 2010, 04:00 PM
Hey, I admit many aspects of ME2 are much better. But parts of the storyline get me, I don't like resource management, I dont like thenumber of loading screens. Am not too fond of the galaxy map either. But hey, thats just me. There are plenty of improvements too.
And I never said I DIDN'T like the 2nd game.

DigiFluid
April 2nd, 2010, 04:04 PM
But parts of the storyline get me,
Fair enough. Different strokes, and all that.


I don't like resource management,
How so? I thought the means of finding resources was a stupid waste of time in ME1. At least in ME2, they're actually useful.


I dont like thenumber of loading screens.
I played both games on 360 and didn't particularly notice any difference in the number of loading screens :confused:


Am not too fond of the galaxy map either.
If it's the fuel thing you take issue with, I'm in total agreement. I thought that was a really dumb way to go when ME1's galaxy system was just fine.

Stewart5
April 2nd, 2010, 04:30 PM
It seemed everything I did was followed by a loading screen. And they definitely lasted longer.

Ouroboros
April 2nd, 2010, 05:06 PM
It seemed everything I did was followed by a loading screen. And they definitely lasted longer.

The loading screens on the Normandy were especially bad, bad to the point where they became the reason I didn't talk to certain characters after every mission. Spreading all the characters around across multiple loading screens probably wasn't the best design idea either. Put them on two levels tops, some on the command deck and the rest down in that crew quarters area.

On my first play through I put up with it and waited through the screens to talk to most of them but by the time my third one came around I barely talked to anyone that wasn't Mordin anymore, the loading screens being the entire reason for it.

DigiFluid
April 2nd, 2010, 05:08 PM
Mmmm yes, I fogot about that. The Normandy load screens were annoying.

Stewart5
April 2nd, 2010, 05:31 PM
Yea, it was pretty bad. The loading screens didn't last as long in ME1.
Now, I didnt mind the vehicle levels. Even the vehicle exploration wasn't too bad. It made the galaxy seem bigger, more explorable. Although, I did hate being a member of the Mako Climbing Club though....

gotthammer
April 2nd, 2010, 08:03 PM
I also found it really buggy. I had one mission to defend the town from zombies, and the mission wouldn't end. I killed off all the zombies but nothing would happen. I had to replay the mission five or six times until it finally went through. And there were other bugs I encountered that just turned me away from it.
I might give it another go though since I feel like playing an RPG-type game.

I think the bug here (Redcliffe, right?) is that some of the zombie thingies get stuck (path problems?) near the top of the ramp. Sometimes reloads help, other times you may have to go after them (which I think may mean that you'll have less time to get down to deal w/ the 'second part' of the fight).
As a whole, yes, Dragon Age is still buggy. Still, it's one of the better RPGs I've played in quite a while.

Re: Claudia Black's voice
Yup. Awesome in ME2 (3 characters, at least: Adm. Xen, the Asari bartender <tho' I've not seen that 'confirmed', but I suspected it when I first encountered that character>, and another Asari the voice of the Rachni queen ), but I think I liked her better in Dragon Age (then again, her part there was much longer :D ). Actually curious about Uncharted 2 because she voiced one of the main characters there.

Adm. Xen was quite interesting, tho' (and I hope there's an option, in the sequel, to further her agenda/s). Hehe, there was even a thread in BW's forums asking for the Asari Bartender to become a shipmate (while also asking that a bar be installed into the Normandy... :valaanime06: )

DigiFluid
April 2nd, 2010, 08:26 PM
I have zero problems with the zombies at Redcliffe. I mean, besides getting my ass handed to me a few times before I managed to pull it off.

Oranos
April 2nd, 2010, 08:56 PM
I don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but it's awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmIJD0AzlJU&feature=video_response

gotthammer
April 2nd, 2010, 09:49 PM
I don't know if any of you have seen this yet, but it's awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmIJD0AzlJU&feature=video_response

hehehe, nice

Stewart5
April 3rd, 2010, 02:55 AM
Hahahaha. Awesome! "so much pain"

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 12:24 PM
Hahahaha. Awesome! "so much pain"

It would have been even more awesome had I not been drinking soda at the time. :p

Stewart5
April 3rd, 2010, 12:26 PM
All over the place now?

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 12:29 PM
All over the place now?

It very nearly ended poorly, yes. Videos like that should come with a warning.

Stewart5
April 3rd, 2010, 12:36 PM
Hahaha. I laughed for a full five minutes

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 12:51 PM
Hahaha. I laughed for a full five minutes

Only five? :p

Damn. You got me beat by three.

Stewart5
April 3rd, 2010, 12:55 PM
Makes me chuckle even thinkhn about it.
Anyway, read either of the books yet?

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 01:08 PM
Anyway, read either of the books yet?

I have read both. But I think I prefer the first. I love me my Turians, Garrus and Saren more than most. And that damn councilor. :D

Ready for the third one...in June, I think.

Stewart5
April 3rd, 2010, 01:20 PM
Yea, I prefer Revelation too. Garrus was my favourite teammate. His voice actor is an LT in The Pacific.:D
although, over all I am a human fanboy. I saved the council just to see the Human fleet charging to the rescue. I had a shiver down me back and I think I may have cheered. Outloud. :D :lol:

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 01:30 PM
Yea, I prefer Revelation too. Garrus was my favourite teammate. His voice actor is an LT in The Pacific.:D

Garrus is like the one teammate that's always with me. I mean, what's not to love? He's the ultimate bad@$$ and fiercly loyal, too.

Really? I may have to watch this "Pacific." Movie or show?


although, over all I am a human fanboy. I saved the council just to see the Human fleet charging to the rescue. I had a shiver down me back and I think I may have cheered. Outloud. :D :lol:

I saved the Destiny Ascension just so I could have some more quality conversations with my "favorite" member of the council. When he calls me, begging for help, you know what the response is, "Ah yes, 'Reapers,' I have dismissed that claim."

Stewart5
April 3rd, 2010, 01:40 PM
Its band of brothers in the Pacific. Sky movies.

Garrus is epic!
Still love humans though......

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 05:18 PM
Its band of brothers in the Pacific. Sky movies.

Interesting. Will definitely take a look at that for Brandon Keener.



Still love humans though......

Most of the human characters, I don't like as much. Some exceptions, of course, Joker and Miranda. A few others too, but on the whole, I didn't find them as interesting as most of the aliens.

DigiFluid
April 3rd, 2010, 09:18 PM
So far, The Pacific has been a little underwhelming compared to Band of Brothers. That's a little off-topic though.

Oranos
April 3rd, 2010, 09:31 PM
So far, The Pacific has been a little underwhelming compared to Band of Brothers. That's a little off-topic though.

But, but. Garrus is in it. Shouldn't that make it like off the charts good?

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 03:19 AM
Hahahaha.
What abou least favourite races? Anyone got a least favourite?

Mine has got to be the Volus. So far, all I've met are criminals, whiners, or both. They do add character, but I got bored. (the 'high' Volus was funny, though.)

gotthammer
April 4th, 2010, 05:18 AM
I don't like the Batarians. Methinks they're whinier than the Volus. (I mean, one of the most memorable characters in ME2 was the 'Biotic God', after all :valaanime06: )

Other than the Batarians, I don't think I have a dislike of any of the other races. Do rabid Tali fans count as a separate race? :D

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 05:54 AM
Ah, I forgot the Baterians. I might have to agree with you.
Yes, rabid quarrian lovers are a seperate species.

Oranos
April 4th, 2010, 07:33 AM
What abou least favourite races? Anyone got a least favourite?


In character, Batarians. They did wipe out his favorite colony, after all.

For me, the Elcor. Having a conversation with one takes forever. :p

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 07:56 AM
Actually, after readin the first novel, I really don't like batarians.

Btw, I'll post pics when I get on a Computer, but do you guys think that Collectors look like a cross between Chigs and Shadows?

DigiFluid
April 4th, 2010, 09:52 AM
I didn't really watch SAAB so I can't say on that front, but I definitely got the same Shadow vibe you did :)

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 09:59 AM
The general is easily a Shadow, and the Drones are like a Chig Warrior with a Shadow's eyes and organic look.

s09119
April 4th, 2010, 10:40 AM
I didn't really watch SAAB so I can't say on that front, but I definitely got the same Shadow vibe you did :)

Shadows on two legs was what my friend yelled when he first saw them. And here he always claimed he hated B5...

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Hehehe. Seriously, guys, google Chig.:D You'll see what I mean. :D

Oranos
April 4th, 2010, 11:38 AM
The general is easily a Shadow, and the Drones are like a Chig Warrior with a Shadow's eyes and organic look.

What? No reference to Pilot here? :p

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 11:46 AM
Nah, I didn't see Pilot. Though, I see where your coming from

Oranos
April 4th, 2010, 12:15 PM
Nah, I didn't see Pilot. Though, I see where your coming from

I just figured since we were tossing everything else out there... :p

gotthammer
April 4th, 2010, 12:26 PM
hehehe...well, ME & ME2 is kinda close to Farscape. :D
(heck, the whole 'collect the aliens for the showdown' bit reminded me of one of the later episodes of season 2 :D )

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 12:43 PM
And of course one of Shepard's clothing choices just cries out *Crichton*! (with a bit of Star Wars and Outland thrown in:D)

Xarn
April 4th, 2010, 03:54 PM
Since this thread seems to be about the games as well, anyone knows whether there is any way to make ME2 more challenging than insanity? I was recently thinking about another playthrough, but it is rather easy for my liking.

Also, FFS renegade isn't evil. He is more of dirty harry... not perfectly logical, kinda loose cannon, but always basically good. (if you want to see evil, go play through some of the really evil parts of PS:T, where ironically enough, the most evil being you encounter is absolute pragmatist)


I will otherwise refrain from commenting on ME (I didnt like it much and don't feel like posting extremely long post about my gripes, when most other people seem to like the game.)

OT: is there any way to eliminate the stupid coding (I mean come on, it is year 2009, this kind of thing should be standard) bug in DA:O, which causes loading to slow down to crawl after playing for a long time (W7), I recently finished it (liked it a lot more than ME), and want to try another playthrough but it is depressing when location that when you start the game takes under 5 seconds to load, takes several minutes... and quiting the game every hour or so is also stupid.

Oranos
April 4th, 2010, 04:02 PM
Since this thread seems to be about the games as well, anyone knows whether there is any way to make ME2 more challenging than insanity? I was recently thinking about another playthrough, but it is rather easy for my liking.

New Game Plus. :)

DigiFluid
April 4th, 2010, 04:09 PM
OT: is there any way to eliminate the stupid coding (I mean come on, it is year 2009, this kind of thing should be standard) bug in DA:O, which causes loading to slow down to crawl after playing for a long time (W7), I recently finished it (liked it a lot more than ME), and want to try another playthrough but it is depressing when location that when you start the game takes under 5 seconds to load, takes several minutes... and quiting the game every hour or so is also stupid.
Time for a new PC? I've encountered none of that.

Xarn
April 4th, 2010, 04:33 PM
New Game Plus. :)

Been there, done that, still easy. I guess the game needs better AI... Or maybe I should just play another class ^.^


Time for a new PC? I've encountered none of that.

Running HDDs in raid, HD 5870, OCed i7-920, 12gig DDR3 at 1600 (stable at first try surprisingly enough)


So yeah, thats not it. The problem is (most likely, gleaned through some observation I've done...) incorrect handling of system resources, respectively release thereof.

Oranos
April 4th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Been there, done that, still easy. I guess the game needs better AI... Or maybe I should just play another class ^.^

Yeah, that's about as hard as it gets, so there's not much more you can try besides maybe changing class.

Ouroboros
April 4th, 2010, 04:58 PM
Since this thread seems to be about the games as well, anyone knows whether there is any way to make ME2 more challenging than insanity? I was recently thinking about another playthrough, but it is rather easy for my liking.

Use a save editor to hack in Kasumi, pick her as one of your teamates and someone else you actually want to use as the other. The game will then bug out, pop up an error message, and then proceed let you play missions with just that other someone apparently. So you'll only have 1 ally instead of 2.

I recommend Garrus for buddy cop movie fun.

Stewart5
April 4th, 2010, 05:11 PM
As for ME, I would like a background book with weapon and ship diagrams. As a keen military auff, it's that sort of thing I like. The ships also seemed really cool, but you didn't see them enough. More, I say!

Xarn
April 4th, 2010, 05:21 PM
Use a save editor to hack in Kasumi, pick her as one of your teamates and someone else you actually want to use as the other. The game will then bug out, pop up an error message, and then proceed let you play missions with just that other someone apparently. So you'll only have 1 ally instead of 2.

I recommend Garrus for buddy cop movie fun.

Nice find, but I think it is more about the atmosphere of having one teammate (I would really like to be able not to take any of them with me, playing a lone wolf character instead), rather then making it any harder.

On a side note, this is the sort of thing that has always bothered me in games... You have some really important (country/world/planet/star system/galaxy/universe-saving important) mission, where you are going to go up against the standart scifi/fantasy superior enemy (which in fact is so weak, it tends to stop being funny after a while) and you have some completely arbitrary team limit about people you can take with you.
So when you go into that derelict ship or another, where you more or less know are tons of bad guys, you only take TWO(3/4/whatever) teammates from that supposedly all stars team you spent the game assembling, instead of taking the whole friggin team, and thus having a backup.

gotthammer
April 4th, 2010, 11:37 PM
re: the load time increase in DA:O
Didn't they 'fix' that in a previous patch? (which I think also added more issues, too.... :D )

re: needing a new PC
well, the 'problem' w/ PC gaming is that even if you have a new/decent rig, that's never a guarantee that the game will run flawlessly. :)

DigiFluid
April 4th, 2010, 11:57 PM
Re: patching, I can't really speak to that. I bought DA via Steam, so I'm totally oblivious to when it updates.

gotthammer
April 5th, 2010, 01:19 AM
ahh. we have Steam, too, but I tend to avoid it for my games (for one thing, I like 'physical copies', and I think I only have 2 games, E:TW and DoW2, that required Steam). I personally don't like the service *shrugs* (probably the sometimes slow login times on my end)

DA:O is at version 1.03. (the patch was required to install Awakenings, so if you have that installed, then it's there)

Xarn
April 5th, 2010, 03:11 AM
re: the load time increase in DA:O
Didn't they 'fix' that in a previous patch? (which I think also added more issues, too.... :D )
Did they? BRB, downloading :-D


re: needing a new PC
well, the 'problem' w/ PC gaming is that even if you have a new/decent rig, that's never a guarantee that the game will run flawlessly. :)
Well at least new OS revision doesnt take away my ability to have multiple OSes and do whatever I want with the rig. (Sony, I am looking at you.)

DigiFluid
April 5th, 2010, 10:50 PM
ahh. we have Steam, too, but I tend to avoid it for my games (for one thing, I like 'physical copies', and I think I only have 2 games, E:TW and DoW2, that required Steam). I personally don't like the service *shrugs* (probably the sometimes slow login times on my end)
I can't remember the last time I bought a (non-console) physical copy of a game. Digital download is the way to go.

Admittedly, Steam sucked when it first came out. But it's come a long way since then; really very solid these days.

gotthammer
April 5th, 2010, 10:51 PM
hmm...Kasumi DLC tomorrow. I wonder if it's worth it... :)
$7 isn't much, after all...

Maybe I'll finish my long-overdue ME1 playthrough first. :D

edit:
re: digital copies
I dunno...I still like having the physical packaging. *shrugs...and pushes around the small pile of games near him* :valaanime06:

It's one of the reasons I prefer to go for collector's/limited editions of games I like (and even games I took a 'risk' on, and disappointed *sheds a tear for Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Hellgate: London, and, most-disappointing of them all, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning* ).

DigiFluid
April 5th, 2010, 11:04 PM
You can get deluxe/collector's edditions of games digital too. I know my copy of Dragon Age is a Deluxe :)

gotthammer
April 6th, 2010, 12:40 AM
You can get deluxe/collector's edditions of games digital too. I know my copy of Dragon Age is a Deluxe :)

yeah, but those don't come in a nice, wooden (or tin) box. :D
(got a mug w/ the deal, too. the 'cloth' map was ugly, tho'...)

StargateWatcher
April 6th, 2010, 01:09 AM
No! At least not the main story because that would lose much of the point of the Mass Effect games. The games universe is so dependent on your own actions and the choices you make that the state of the galaxy and the status of characters in two different peoples games can be totally different. You just don't get that in film or tv.

what about a DVD w/ a choose-ur own-next-scene feature? prob wouldn't fit movie budget givin that many choices (kinda like a choose-ur-own-adventure kinda thing--btw if u pitch this idea successfully to a movie producer, be sure to split ur pay 50-50 with me, lol!!)

got this idea b/c thought u were talkin bout a fixed-plot novel then realized in thius spec post, ur talkin bout a movie

Atlanis
April 6th, 2010, 02:18 AM
to tell you the truth I don't think the Illusive man is human cause he said to sheppard "you and every other human may as well be dead"

Stewart5
April 6th, 2010, 03:09 AM
And his eyes....his eyes!

gotthammer
April 6th, 2010, 06:09 AM
I wouldn't read to much into it...
If that's supposed to mean anything, I'd sooner think that he's arrogant to think that he's better/'above' other humans...

re: eyes
I kinda wished that the 'Paragon' Shep could also get 'glowing' eyes (I don't really remember, but weren't there visual 'indicators' in Knights of the Old Republic if you were on either end of the Dark Side/Light Side of the Force thingy?).
Methinks the med bay upgrade could have been implemented better... :D

Oranos
April 6th, 2010, 10:02 AM
I wouldn't read to much into it...
If that's supposed to mean anything, I'd sooner think that he's arrogant to think that he's better/'above' other humans...

That's pretty much how I read it. I mean, the guy is practically playing "God," he's dedicated vast amounts of resources to bring Shepard back to life. He's probably responsible for the first human biotics, among other things.

If the eyes are any indication, he's had some upgrades done to himself, too. You have to assume that he'd have had other work done, work that doesn't make him quite human.

Ultimately, he's ushering in a new age for humanity with himself at the forefront.

If that doesn't say arrogant, I don't know what does.


re: eyes
I kinda wished that the 'Paragon' Shep could also get 'glowing' eyes (I don't really remember, but weren't there visual 'indicators' in Knights of the Old Republic if you were on either end of the Dark Side/Light Side of the Force thingy?).
Methinks the med bay upgrade could have been implemented better... :D

Yeah, that would have been cool, some blue eyes to match the red.

Thinking back on it, I don't know that KotOR had a visual indicator for Jedi. The Sith looked like a Sith should, but the Jedi just looked normal. I mean, you had the blue aura on your character screen, and it cost less to use certain force powers, but I think that was the extent of it. Granted, it's been a while since I've done a playthrough. Guess that means it's time for another run. KotOR never gets old. :D

DigiFluid
April 6th, 2010, 10:23 AM
yeah, but those don't come in a nice, wooden (or tin) box. :D
(got a mug w/ the deal, too. the 'cloth' map was ugly, tho'...)
So the box can sit on the shelf, and very occasionally be pulled down to be admired? ;)

A little jealous of the mug though, I'll admit :p

gotthammer
April 6th, 2010, 11:13 AM
[QUOTE=DigiFluid;11376064
A little jealous of the mug though, I'll admit :p[/QUOTE]

Hehehe. I think it was an asian-release 'exclusive'. It's not so great, tho' (I actually think the print on the mug could be better *shrugs*).

As for the box: yeah, that's pretty much it. :D it's there to take up space and look pretty. :D

re: KotOR...or Star Wars in general
my Shepard wants a Star Destroyer. :valaanime06:

Oranos
April 6th, 2010, 11:32 AM
re: KotOR...or Star Wars in general
my Shepard wants a Star Destroyer. :valaanime06:

Yeah? My Shepard wants a lot of things. Too bad you can't get them all. :p

Stewart5
April 6th, 2010, 11:43 AM
My Shepard wants his other 'P' back :lol:

gotthammer
April 6th, 2010, 12:23 PM
My Shepard wants his other 'P' back :lol:

:sheppard28:

Xarn
April 8th, 2010, 07:02 AM
I can't remember the last time I bought a (non-console) physical copy of a game. Digital download is the way to go.

Admittedly, Steam sucked when it first came out. But it's come a long way since then; really very solid these days.

Meh, I would really like it, if I could tell it where it is supposed to put the games (yes I know, you can tweak the registry, but it would be preferable within settings)
It is however nice when you can take your physical copy and for example register it somewhere, so you can at some point in the future download it, instead of looking for CDs/DVDs (not to mention that recently, time it would take to DL a game is getting shorter than time to reinstall from CDs), like you can with games from blizzard (don't know which was the first one to offer it tho)


hmm...Kasumi DLC tomorrow. I wonder if it's worth it...
$7 isn't much, after all...
Ah, another pet peeve of mine. What the hell is with releasing the game and straight out having NPCs there basically telling people "if you want to see this, you have to pay (even) more" (This was much more in your face in DA:O, where there was friggin NPC doing this in your own camp...)

Another question, did someone else have serious beef with the dialog wheel? (I mean come on... I don't need the answers colour coded for my convenience, nor do I need them placed from top to bottom on scale of their "renegadiness")



On a side note, hereby I am taking bets (not seriously ofc ;) ) whether ME3 finally gets class balance (Bioware, RTFM about stacking skills and % increases, this has been around since forever), difficulty (esp. on PC) and renegade/paragon divide right.

Oranos
April 8th, 2010, 01:27 PM
Ah, another pet peeve of mine. What the hell is with releasing the game and straight out having NPCs there basically telling people "if you want to see this, you have to pay (even) more" (This was much more in your face in DA:O, where there was friggin NPC doing this in your own camp...)

Are you talking about the newsfeed that mentions Kasumi? Because, in my opinion, it was a nice touch. If you choose to purchase her, then you kind of know what to expect, a super thief of sorts. You hear of some of her exploits. If you choose not to purchase her, then it still just adds a little something to the universe (and you know that there's bad@$$ out there that isn't a part of your team).

Either way, I quite like Kasumi (and the Locust!) and think both are worth the price.


Another question, did someone else have serious beef with the dialog wheel? (I mean come on... I don't need the answers colour coded for my convenience, nor do I need them placed from top to bottom on scale of their "renegadiness")

Weren't the only options in color the "Charm" and "Intimidate?" Which I suspect were done that way to distinguish them from the rest of the wheel. In addition, considering that the text given on the wheel is only a summary of what the character says (and you can't hear how he'll say it), it makes sense to order them in terms of "Paragon," and "Neutral," and "Renegade." Otherwise even more people would complain, I think.

So no, I had no real issues with the wheel.

Stewart5
April 8th, 2010, 01:47 PM
I liked the speech wheels. Don't think they need to change it.

Xarn
April 8th, 2010, 02:56 PM
Are you talking about the newsfeed that mentions Kasumi?
Nah, I mean the DLCs in general, not kasumi's one in particular. Some of them are well worth it (I don't have anything against those ^.^), but some of them feel like shameless ripoff.


Weren't the only options in color the "Charm" and "Intimidate?" Which I suspect were done that way to distinguish them from the rest of the wheel. In addition, considering that the text given on the wheel is only a summary of what the character says (and you can't hear how he'll say it), it makes sense to order them in terms of "Paragon," and "Neutral," and "Renegade." Otherwise even more people would complain, I think.

So no, I had no real issues with the wheel.
The problem is that you end up with situation like releasing the rachni queen, which is supposed to be moral dilema, where you don't know what to do... Or you wouldn't, if the choices weren't always blue, top left: charm; red, bottom left: intimidate; top right: paragon; mid right: neutral; bottom right: renegade. (I rather won't talk about what I think about naming the paths paragon/renegade in context of actions chosen by those respective characters ingame... That would take way more time than I have (+ I would have to go through ME1/2 again))


In addition, considering that the text given on the wheel is only a summary of what the character says (and you can't hear how he'll say it),
Yeah, another of those WTF moments... especially when you have two words description for a dialog choice, and your character then goes into lengthy monologue (Not to mention that the description isn't always corresponding to the speech delivered (I don't remember any place where the char's line wasn't consistent with its place on the wheel... Another WTF?))

DigiFluid
April 8th, 2010, 02:59 PM
I like the conversation wheel well enough. I just wish that had the actual dialogue, rather than the jist of what your character says.

That's one thing that I really like about Dragon Age over Mass Effect, that it has the lines. Unfortunately there's no voice-over for your character in DA past "it shall be done!" and the like =\

Stewart5
April 8th, 2010, 03:04 PM
Whats the point in reading it then hearing it out loud? I like the fact the speech expands the text selection.

Xarn
April 8th, 2010, 03:07 PM
Whats the point in reading it then hearing it out loud? I like the fact the speech expands the text selection.
Up until you see 2 words description which more or less says whatever, and your character starts yelling at people...

DigiFluid
April 8th, 2010, 03:10 PM
Whats the point in reading it then hearing it out loud? I like the fact the speech expands the text selection.
Not necessarily what Xarn said, but what I dislike about the conversation wheel is that sometimes the dialogue-jist ends up saying something completely unexpected and not what I'd intended at all. With the full dialogue on-screen, I know what's happening.

As for why I would want both the dialogue and for it to be spoken? I think it detracts from Dragon Age for there to be no primary voice-over. They've obviously already got all the responses recorded and in the game, so what would've been so difficult about hiring one more voice actor?

My character isn't a mute, I'm not playing as Gordon Freeman.

Stewart5
April 8th, 2010, 03:14 PM
:lol: ah'l give you that.

DigiFluid
April 8th, 2010, 03:20 PM
At least Valve was clever enough to poke fun at it :D


Alyx in HL2, after talking a whole lot about the situation in City 17: "...you don't talk much, do you?"

Replicator Todd
April 8th, 2010, 03:34 PM
At least Valve was clever enough to poke fun at it :D


Alyx in HL2, after talking a whole lot about the situation in City 17: "...you don't talk much, do you?"

Heroes who don't talk are awesome! Like Link in Zelda...if Gordon was to talk my opinion on the entire HL franchise might change! :P

Ouroboros
April 8th, 2010, 04:17 PM
I finished the Kasumi mission last night so here's my thoughts.

-Way more worth it in terms of money and time than firewalker was

-A couple of nice new music tracks

-Nice new outfits for Sheppard. I finished it with my femshep so I can't comment on manshep directly but I think he gets an illusive man style suit out of it. You can wear the special outfit for the rest of the game as "casual" wear.

-Kasumi herself is quite powerful, mainly due to her one skill "shadow strike" or something to that effect. It lets her teleport across entire rooms, her second skill is also overload with is likewise extremely useful. I haven't taken her out in a normal mission yet, or used her flash bombs, to get a real honest comparison but in her own mission she seemed more than capable, even when considering that she's the only ally you get for the whole thing.

-Zaeed style "tell stories about misc objects to a mute Shepard" voicing method sadly won out again.

-Her loyalty mission was fun, had some great visuals and music, and probably ranks as one of my favorites of all the loyalty missions now.

-Looking forward to running Kasumi through a new game from the beginning to hear her various situational dialog, I don't see her ever becoming a liability to the team like some characters can in certain missions.

gotthammer
April 8th, 2010, 10:16 PM
As for why I would want both the dialogue and for it to be spoken? I think it detracts from Dragon Age for there to be no primary voice-over. They've obviously already got all the responses recorded and in the game, so what would've been so difficult about hiring one more voice actor?


I kinda liked it that way.
At first, I too was initially wondering "huh? no voice for me?", but I think it was better in the long run (I actually think that there should be a toggle to turn off the combat/interaction 'noises' that my character makes. Esp. the annoying 'ladder comment' :lol: ).

For one thing, I wouldn't end up hearing a voice I don't like or would think doesn't belong to the character I made (might work for ME, but not necessarily DA:O, after all. Oh, and I think that's one of the reasons I don't play manShep...I kinda don't like Meer's voice, esp. when compared to Hale's femShep). :D

re: Kasumi
Haven't gotten it yet...still need to finish my current ME1 playthrough...
<--- too lazy to play :lol: (that and I blame fanfics...)

Oranos
April 9th, 2010, 08:00 PM
Nah, I mean the DLCs in general, not kasumi's one in particular. Some of them are well worth it (I don't have anything against those ^.^), but some of them feel like shameless ripoff.

Gotcha.


The problem is that you end up with situation like releasing the rachni queen, which is supposed to be moral dilema, where you don't know what to do... Or you wouldn't, if the choices weren't always blue, top left: charm; red, bottom left: intimidate; top right: paragon; mid right: neutral; bottom right: renegade. (I rather won't talk about what I think about naming the paths paragon/renegade in context of actions chosen by those respective characters ingame... That would take way more time than I have (+ I would have to go through ME1/2 again))

It's still a moral choice, though. Yes, you do know which option is which (whether it's paragon, neutral, or renegade), but what you don't know which is the better choice, which is sometimes executed better than at other times. Bring Down the Sky, for my most quoted example. Even knowing what's what, which is really the best choice?

As for the voice of Shepard, gotthammer, I tend to think that Meer does better renegade and Hale does better paragon. Which is why I usually take the former. ;)

jds1982
April 22nd, 2010, 11:30 AM
Does anyone know if Miranda and Jacob were a slight nod to the Halo franchise? As in Jacob and Miranda Keyes?

DigiFluid
April 22nd, 2010, 11:34 AM
I very much doubt it.

SantaSlayer
April 22nd, 2010, 01:35 PM
Did anyone notice the dialogue of rogue Shepard, they're hilarious as hell in Mass Effect 2.

Stewart5
April 22nd, 2010, 02:29 PM
Yup. I avoided rogue for tw reasons, one because I like being the good guy, and two because the rebel phrases are cripplingly embarrassing

DigiFluid
April 22nd, 2010, 02:49 PM
I love playing rogue, the dialogue options are pretty much always funnier :D

Stewart5
April 22nd, 2010, 03:07 PM
true....true......on my next play through, I may just go all rogue

Stewart5
April 26th, 2010, 08:19 AM
I think they were maybe trying show the fact that, whilst still the better of two evil choices, many of them were just that. shepard is no longer the cut and dry good-guy, fighting for the good guys. he is gone rogue, so he will do anythignt o save humanity (nothign wrong with that) and that even the 'paragon' choice is one that may be hard to stomach

Dhar Slaa
April 26th, 2010, 08:48 AM
It is true that he is more "brutal" if you like in ME2 though i found it hard to decide on some of the choices particularly the ones the Elusive man asked you to do, his outcome seemed a bit to ... extreme for my likeing :/

Stewart5
April 26th, 2010, 11:23 AM
i just don't particulalry like the way the renegade acts. You can be cold, calculating and know nothing but the mission without making petty quips and being a bully, which he is in ME2. I much prefer the Paragon answers, as, despite thier darker nature, they are more akin to real than being all goody two shoes, all the time

Dhar Slaa
April 26th, 2010, 03:05 PM
i just don't particulalry like the way the renegade acts. You can be cold, calculating and know nothing but the mission without making petty quips and being a bully, which he is in ME2. I much prefer the Paragon answers, as, despite thier darker nature, they are more akin to real than being all goody two shoes, all the time
The man has a point though, i found that if you didn't go all good or evil half the content remained locked there was no middle ground this annoyed me a little bit unlike compaired to previouse games like KoToR where there was more of a personal thing as opposed to oh which one gives me the most points to make me able to unlock this bit of dialoge :/

Ouroboros
April 26th, 2010, 03:39 PM
I have two Sheppard's but even with the more renegade one I can't seem to bring myself to pick the renegade options all the time, especially when it comes to ragging on my own teammates just for the sake of being an *******. A lot of the renegade ones seem to boil down to that unfortunately, acting like an ******* just because and not for any particularly advantageous reason.

I was splitting my sides with laughter when my semi evil femshep made that Batarian bartender drink his own poison though.

Stewart5
April 26th, 2010, 03:52 PM
I've never had enough reneagde points for that bit. i always get the turian to plug the bugger. What happens to the Batarian?!?!

Ouroboros
April 26th, 2010, 04:34 PM
Exactly what you'd expect. he gags up some green stuff and falls over dead behind the bar

Stewart5
April 27th, 2010, 03:55 AM
Ah. I was wondering if there was anything else to it that made it entertainng. Owell.

Stewart5
April 27th, 2010, 04:05 AM
The man has a point though, i found that if you didn't go all good or evil half the content remained locked there was no middle ground this annoyed me a little bit unlike compaired to previouse games like KoToR where there was more of a personal thing as opposed to oh which one gives me the most points to make me able to unlock this bit of dialoge :/

True, but in the first game it was a little harder to have an even middle ground, you know, what with the fate of the glaxy in the balance! But I see where you are coming from Dhar

jds1982
April 27th, 2010, 05:48 AM
Apparently DARPA is working on developing its own Thanix cannons (http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/080428-technov-clarke-mahem.html).

Stewart5
April 27th, 2010, 12:18 PM
Apparently DARPA is working on developing its own Thanix cannons (http://www.space.com/businesstechnology/080428-technov-clarke-mahem.html).

That would be sooo cool!!!! Add that to the Railguns that are currently under development, and we rock!!!

Ouroboros
April 27th, 2010, 08:23 PM
Ah. I was wondering if there was anything else to it that made it entertainng. Owell.

Oh don't worry, it's plenty entertaining. The way it all plays out is hilarious.

Dhar Slaa
May 11th, 2010, 06:52 AM
Too true.

Stewart5
May 11th, 2010, 07:05 AM
I saw it. Got my renegade points up especially. hahahahahaha