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Madwelshboy
January 12th, 2010, 11:36 AM
sam and dean check into a mental hospital. A former hunter named martin (guest star), who is currently institutionalized, calls sam (jared padalecki) and dean (jensen ackles) for help investigating a case in the mental hospital. The brothers get themselves admitted as patients to check out the mysterious monster that is attacking the patients, but their incarceration pushes both to the breaking point as they unleash their inner demons against each other..

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the fifth man
January 21st, 2010, 06:27 PM
Great first episode back. Man did I miss this show.:) I so thought I had things figured out early on, but was so wrong. This one definitely threw a few curve balls, no doubt about that.

starg8fans
January 22nd, 2010, 01:25 AM
Loved it from start to finish. It had everything I love about this show - suspense, twists, humor, drama, action, great brotherly moments. I had a bad feeling about the nurse from the start, she reminded me so much of the other nurse at the end of S4 who was supposed to be Lilith's 'personal chef'. And when the doc started accusing Dean, she looked like the new Meg to me.

Although I'm not usually a fan of the blood and gore, I liked to have a new kind of monster introduced. We haven't had one in a long time - IIRC not since the ghouls in Jump the Shark. And this one was one scary SOB. I wonder if the special effects guys were influenced by the SGA version Wraith - that first glimpse of the doctor in the mirror kinda looked like one of those drones.

I'll try hard to keep my fangirly side at bay, but I think both Jensen and Jared did an outstanding job in this episode. From the comic timing to the inner turmoil to complete freak out they were utterly believable, and had my complete sympathy.

I wonder if we'll see Martin again. It was never explained what actually happened in Albuquerque, and it's not like the Spn writers to keep a thread like this hanging. If most of his insanity was also caused by the Wraith infecting him, he should be getting better now that it's gone, and he can join the ranks of the hunters again.

LoneStar1836
January 22nd, 2010, 07:29 AM
Great first episode back. Man did I miss this show.:) I so thought I had things figured out early on, but was so wrong. This one definitely threw a few curve balls, no doubt about that.Yeah I thought I had the doctor pegged as the one, and then when Dean saw him in the mirror I was like that was too easy...can't be him.

Good first episode back.:)

Crichiel
January 22nd, 2010, 07:44 AM
I'll write my usual length review when a get a chance (and once I've watched it a couple more times!). For right now, the short version:

Liked it a WHOLE lot, but don't think I could say I loved it. Mostly because the end seemed rushed, specifically Sam's and Dean's emo issues brought up this week. I'm thinking that this might be one of those episodes that I will have to reserve a final judgement on until I can see how the rest of the season plays out. I want to see where, if anywhere, these new insights that the boys gained lead them in upcoming episodes. I'm trusting in Kripke not to just let them fall by the wayside.

Arative
January 22nd, 2010, 12:12 PM
Pudding!!!!

That had me cracking up.
As usual, Supernatural brings the A game, great mix of comedy and drama. I wonder how they will deal with the anger issue Sam has and if that is going to be Lucifer's in to possessing him?

flameling
January 22nd, 2010, 12:18 PM
I liked the episode, we finally saw a new scary monster, but did anyone else feel sorry for Sam? How he was chained like that for the Wraith? I was wondering what would follow up Herpes commercial.

MmmmMcKAy
January 22nd, 2010, 04:21 PM
I was a little disapointed. I didn't find it funny, though some moments were appropriately intense (Sam's apology to the doctor and his realization re his anger).
All in all, an average episode. I hope the next one is an improvemnet.

the fifth man
January 22nd, 2010, 08:45 PM
Pudding!!!!

That had me cracking up.
As usual, Supernatural brings the A game, great mix of comedy and drama. I wonder how they will deal with the anger issue Sam has and if that is going to be Lucifer's in to possessing him?

My wife and I were cracking up at that part too. So much in fact, we had to rewind the episode a little bit because we missed some of the dialogue that followed.:D

kennythewraith
January 22nd, 2010, 09:16 PM
it had me cracking up as well.....the docs face was priceless!
but i thought this was a very good episode and it gave us another possible outcome for the brothers if they do survive this season.they could very well go crazy from the stress and anger one day.

Heaven
January 23rd, 2010, 03:35 AM
anyone else tired of Sam and Dean being depressed all the time?
this season is too sad imo

starg8fans
January 23rd, 2010, 03:45 AM
anyone else tired of Sam and Dean being depressed all the time?
this season is too sad imo

I wouldn't say they're depressed, but they have a lot of issues with each other after S4, and I for one like the fact that the writers show them slowly working through them rather than just going back to business-as-usual overnight.

Madwelshboy
January 23rd, 2010, 04:13 AM
Really liked this episode, i do love them crazy episodes. Tho would have rathered an episode that happened a sort time after episode 10, as the first episode back.

Andron
January 23rd, 2010, 04:20 AM
This episode was IMHO above average, but not great storywise. I liked that we got to know a new monster. Jensen and Jared really acted their hearts out in this one, especially during their crazy scenes. I also liked Sam's apology scene, very emotional. There were some funny moments, the totally stoned Sam scene and of course the "Pudding" scene.

queen_hathor
January 23rd, 2010, 08:45 AM
I need a re-watch of the ep, as at this stage I have some issues with it. There were some funny bits (particularly stoned Sam and 'pudding' :p), though overall there's definitely been better eps. I thought Jensen and Jared did a really good job, and I just hope that the later eps will pick up on some of the emotional stuff which has needed to be addressed since this time last season ... particularly since Jump the shark and Dean's issues with John. We didn't get to hear any of what Dean said to his 'doctor' ...

I'll come back when I'm feeling more positive! :o :lol:

the fifth man
January 24th, 2010, 07:08 AM
anyone else tired of Sam and Dean being depressed all the time?
this season is too sad imo

The apocalypse is coming. I'd be depressed too if I was a part of its oncoming, which both Dean and Sam are.

LtColCarter
January 24th, 2010, 09:03 AM
Great first episode back. Man did I miss this show.:) I so thought I had things figured out early on, but was so wrong. This one definitely threw a few curve balls, no doubt about that.

I concur 110%! Excellent 1st episode back! I liked the curve balls...I thought it was gonna be the doctor. But then again...that'd be to easy to figure out.


I'll write my usual length review when a get a chance (and once I've watched it a couple more times!). For right now, the short version:

Liked it a WHOLE lot, but don't think I could say I loved it. Mostly because the end seemed rushed, specifically Sam's and Dean's emo issues brought up this week. I'm thinking that this might be one of those episodes that I will have to reserve a final judgement on until I can see how the rest of the season plays out. I want to see where, if anywhere, these new insights that the boys gained lead them in upcoming episodes. I'm trusting in Kripke not to just let them fall by the wayside.

ROFL...emo issues. Good way to put it!


anyone else tired of Sam and Dean being depressed all the time?
this season is too sad imo

Well, you try having the weight of the world on your shoulders and see if you're not a tad bit depressed!

the fifth man
January 24th, 2010, 06:36 PM
Well, you try having the weight of the world on your shoulders and see if you're not a tad bit depressed!

If that was me, I would probably always have a bottle in my hand. Maybe one in each.:D

LtColCarter
January 25th, 2010, 06:47 AM
If that was me, I would probably always have a bottle in my hand. Maybe one in each.:D

:lol: and a pill bottle in your pocket?

queen_hathor
January 25th, 2010, 07:59 AM
I need a re-watch of the ep, as at this stage I have some issues with it. There were some funny bits (particularly stoned Sam and 'pudding' :p), though overall there's definitely been better eps. I thought Jensen and Jared did a really good job, and I just hope that the later eps will pick up on some of the emotional stuff which has needed to be addressed since this time last season ... particularly since Jump the shark and Dean's issues with John. We didn't get to hear any of what Dean said to his 'doctor' ...

I'll come back when I'm feeling more positive! :o :lol:
OK, I've had my re-watch and I have to say that I'm still not much more positive than I was before! :S

I thought the ep was disappointing given all the waiting we've had to do. By that I mean that the ep didn't further the story whatsoever IMO. We're at the halfway point in a story that was due to finish this season, and as such, I would've expected at this stage to be given more to go on. We had a big dramatic cliffhanger ending waiting for Death to arrive, and then we get an ep that would've been better suited towards the start of the season. It's what I'd class as a filler ep; and at this point, I want more.

Sam - it doesn't take a genius to work out that Sam has anger issues, he's been getting angrier for what, 2 seasons now? Old news I'm afraid. Of course, it's hitting home so much more now, how much he messed up in S4, so he's bound to be angry; but Much as I like Sam, in this ep he struck me as the whiny brat he was in the early days. Yes, he has every right to be depressed and angry, but unless he's going to suck it up and get on with saving the world, there's no point b*tching about it... it's not getting us anywhere.

I thought it was a nice touch that even though he was high as a kite, that he was still trying to reassure Dean (and most likely, himself) that everything was ok, and that he loves him.

Was it just me, or did anyone else half expect him to send the letter opener flying into the Wraith's back when she was fighting with Dean? I know he hasn't used his powers in ages, but the way the camera showed him, then the opener, then the fighting ...

Dean - I think they laid Dean's 'craziness' on a bit thick tbh and it kind of got on my nerves, as we've not seen him scared like that - he has anger issues too, and when he's been scared in the past, he's shown that usually in a violent way. It upset me to see him that weak, for want of a better word. I find it difficult to comprehend how a man who survived Hell could be turned into something so jittery so easily. We know he has many issues, but it just didn't seem to fit. I can't really explain it, it just doesn't feel right! :S

I didn't dislike the ep, there were some funny and touching moments in it, but overall, I'm just disappointed. Hopefully Swap meat will bring more storyline! :)

LtColCarter
January 25th, 2010, 08:12 AM
*Hands Queen Hathor a happy pill*

queen_hathor
January 25th, 2010, 08:51 AM
*Hands Queen Hathor a happy pill*
:lol: Thanks! *takes pill*

LtColCarter
January 25th, 2010, 09:21 AM
:lol: Thanks! *takes pill*

No problem! ;)

queen_hathor
January 25th, 2010, 10:08 AM
No problem! ;)
Well I'm happier now... still feel the same about the ep, but I'm happier! :)

Crichiel
January 25th, 2010, 11:32 AM
Sorry, way too much going on this weekend for a proper re-watch. I'm just going to go from memory here with the 1 1/2 times I watched it (the 1/2 watch was fast forwarding to the parts the 4-yr-old was allowed to see....not too much in this one!). This probably will be more rambling than a nice organised review :o:

I still am not in love with the episode. Of course, stuck watching other shows for 9 weeks, it only goes to show you how good SPN is, because I still enjoyed this more than anything I watched over the hiatus!

I was mainly disappointed that the continuing story arc part of the episode was shoved in there as an afterthought. I would have liked to see it addressed more. Reminds me of Family Remains, another back-from-the-hiatus episode that was fine monster-of-the-week ep, but barely touched on the big cliffhanger we were left with (in that case, the fact that Dean spent ten years in hell torturing people). The wraith was a cool monster, no doubt, but the bigger picture was kind of lost.

Ok, what did I like? Quite a bit in spite of what I just said:

-I am probably the only person who didn't like "Pudding". It was such the obvious joke, and so OTT, I just kind of groaned. But for some reason, I thought "I don't know. I don't have any elephant books." was HILARIOUS!! :o Something about Jensen's delivery there just cracks me up. That is the one part I have rewatched half a dozen times. He treats the line like he is saying something so normal, and it's so odd!

-I liked when they were first talking with the doctor how Dean explained that the apocalypse wasn't Sam's fault. How he was just 'high' :D, and also loved when he patted Sam on the arm. I know some of that was an act, but I still got the impression that FINALLY Dean believes it. Also related to that, I was happy (?) that his subconscious, the doctor-lady, brought up that he broke the first seal. I like this reiterated because it puts the blame on both brothers again, which I find more interesting than one blaming the other.

-Another brotherly moment: the doctor saying that they seem unhealthily co-dependent on each other. :) That made me smile, because it's true and it's what makes them so sweet together. And if the doctor can see their reliance on each other, it's shows how far they've come since their rift at the beginning of the season.

-MORE brotherly concern: Sam saying he has been worried about Dean since Jo and Ellen were killed. Nice that he is paying attention. And personally, I liked Dean's brush-off because, to me, that is exactly how Dean WOULD react. Like he did when John died. I like a little slow growth in my characters, but I don't want them to change into a completely new character unrecognisable from the old.

-More long-term continuity: I like High-Sam saying that Dean hasn't been the same since returning from hell, and maybe even before that. Very true. Also nice to hear him say he loves him, even if he is stoned when he says it! :)

-While it's true that Sam's been angry for a while, I like that Sam realises it here. And that he realises it goes all the way back to being angry at Dean and his Dad years and years ago.

-Dean being afraid. I too thought the fear was a little overdone, but I DO believe that this is true to Dean. I have always seen Dean as using anger to try and mask his fear. While I see Sam trying to use rationality to mask an underlying anger. So liked this 'revelation' (we viewers are way ahead of the boys here on seeing their flaws! ;)), but as I said, I thought Dean's part was a little too much. Ooh! And I LOVED his talks with the 'doctor'. The way they bounced their questions back and forth, the mention of Dean's sleeping and drinking patterns (a little continuity touch that I was thrilled to see revisited), and the whole conversation while Dean was watching the mirror (totally irrelevant sidenote: Jensen looked absolutely gorgeous in this scene! :o).

-Liked Martin, but what about how they left him?! I know he was in the mental hospital for good reason, but isn't he still going to get blamed for attacking Wendy? Shouldn't they have gotten him out, too?

That's all I can think of for now. I probably should have watched it all the way through a second time before posting, but I think you all get the general gist! ;)

Summary: Well acted, as always, liked the new monster, couple funny points, couple of good insights. But those insights were too rushed and it messed with the overall pacing. I always like how SPN can do comedy, scary, and insightful equally well, but here the combination wasn't equally balanced, and it brought a potentially wonderful episode down to a 'that was pretty good.' for me. Maybe a 7 out of 10?

LtColCarter
January 25th, 2010, 11:39 AM
Sorry, way too much going on this weekend for a proper re-watch. I'm just going to go from memory here with the 1 1/2 times I watched it (the 1/2 watch was fast forwarding to the parts the 4-yr-old was allowed to see....not too much in this one!). This probably will be more rambling than a nice organised review :o:

I still am not in love with the episode. Of course, stuck watching other shows for 9 weeks, it only goes to show you how good SPN is, because I still enjoyed this more than anything I watched over the hiatus!

I was mainly disappointed that the continuing story arc part of the episode was shoved in there as an afterthought. I would have liked to see it addressed more. Reminds me of Family Remains, another back-from-the-hiatus episode that was fine monster-of-the-week ep, but barely touched on the big cliffhanger we were left with (in that case, the fact that Dean spent ten years in hell torturing people). The wraith was a cool monster, no doubt, but the bigger picture was kind of lost.

Ok, what did I like? Quite a bit in spite of what I just said:

-I am probably the only person who didn't like "Pudding". It was such the obvious joke, and so OTT, I just kind of groaned. But for some reason, I thought "I don't know. I don't have any elephant books." was HILARIOUS!! :o Something about Jensen's delivery there just cracks me up. That is the one part I have rewatched half a dozen times. He treats the line like he is saying something so normal, and it's so odd!

-I liked when they were first talking with the doctor how Dean explained that the apocalypse wasn't Sam's fault. How he was just 'high' :D, and also loved when he patted Sam on the arm. I know some of that was an act, but I still got the impression that FINALLY Dean believes it. Also related to that, I was happy (?) that his subconscious, the doctor-lady, brought up that he broke the first seal. I like this reiterated because it puts the blame on both brothers again, which I find more interesting than one blaming the other.

-Another brotherly moment: the doctor saying that they seem unhealthily co-dependent on each other. :) That made me smile, because it's true and it's what makes them so sweet together. And if the doctor can see their reliance on each other, it's shows how far they've come since their rift at the beginning of the season.

-MORE brotherly concern: Sam saying he has been worried about Dean since Jo and Ellen were killed. Nice that he is paying attention. And personally, I liked Dean's brush-off because, to me, that is exactly how Dean WOULD react. Like he did when John died. I like a little slow growth in my characters, but I don't want them to change into a completely new character unrecognisable from the old.

-More long-term continuity: I like High-Sam saying that Dean hasn't been the same since returning from hell, and maybe even before that. Very true. Also nice to hear him say he loves him, even if he is stoned when he says it! :)

-While it's true that Sam's been angry for a while, I like that Sam realises it here. And that he realises it goes all the way back to being angry at Dean and his Dad years and years ago.

-Dean being afraid. I too thought the fear was a little overdone, but I DO believe that this is true to Dean. I have always seen Dean as using anger to try and mask his fear. While I see Sam trying to use rationality to mask an underlying anger. So liked this 'revelation' (we viewers are way ahead of the boys here on seeing their flaws! ;)), but as I said, I thought Dean's part was a little too much. Ooh! And I LOVED his talks with the 'doctor'. The way they bounced their questions back and forth, the mention of Dean's sleeping and drinking patterns (a little continuity touch that I was thrilled to see revisited), and the whole conversation while Dean was watching the mirror (totally irrelevant sidenote: Jensen looked absolutely gorgeous in this scene! :o).

-Liked Martin, but what about how they left him?! I know he was in the mental hospital for good reason, but isn't he still going to get blamed for attacking Wendy? Shouldn't they have gotten him out, too?

That's all I can think of for now. I probably should have watched it all the way through a second time before posting, but I think you all get the general gist! ;)

Summary: Well acted, as always, liked the new monster, couple funny points, couple of good insights. But those insights were too rushed and it messed with the overall pacing. I always like how SPN can do comedy, scary, and insightful equally well, but here the combination wasn't equally balanced, and it brought a potentially wonderful episode down to a 'that was pretty good.' for me. Maybe a 7 out of 10?

Good review...

queen_hathor
January 25th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Damn Crich, how can you remember so much when I forget things as soon as I've seen them? :lol:

That's a great ramble, I'll come back to it tomorrow... far too tired to put anything coherent together atm! :o

Crichiel
January 25th, 2010, 12:07 PM
Damn Crich, how can you remember so much when I forget things as soon as I've seen them? :lol:

That's a great ramble, I'll come back to it tomorrow... far too tired to put anything coherent together atm! :o

Thanks! Although, it's a little sad that these ARE the things in life I remember! :o:D

LtColCarter
January 25th, 2010, 12:14 PM
Thanks! Although, it's a little sad that these ARE the things in life I remember! :o:D

Don't feel sad...I've been called a source of useless information

queen_hathor
January 25th, 2010, 12:17 PM
Thanks! Although, it's a little sad that these ARE the things in life I remember! :o:D

Don't feel sad...I've been called a source of useless information
We all have our areas of expertise ... that's why these discussions are great because we all remember bits and bobs... put it all together and hey presto! :D

iolanda
January 25th, 2010, 01:52 PM
-Liked Martin, but what about how they left him?! I know he was in the mental hospital for good reason, but isn't he still going to get blamed for attacking Wendy? Shouldn't they have gotten him out, too?


Martin couldn't be blamed for attacking Wendy. The nurse was already working on her, so she must have had used the stinger. Martin was unable to hurt Wendy in that way. So if he tells that he had to distract the warden, so that Eddie aka Dean could go after the nurse (and there was no time for explanations), they have to believe him. The evidence was in the other room, with a dead nurse, a weird chest wound and an even weirder stinger, fitting to Wendys and the guy in the pathology's wounds, broken from her wrist.

At the episode: I liked it a great deal, maybe because I wasn't really expecting that the story with Lucifer and Death would be followed here. Supernatural really seldom does that. The episode had something of everything.
The funny parts like Pudding (I admit that this was OTT, but it cracks me up anyway), the elephant books, Sam being kite-high pinching Deans nose and in Martins room when Martin says "the monster!".
Dean vs. therapist was also great. I personally don't believe that he made her up, I think that only the third encounter was imaginary, because on the first day (when he met her) everything was still OK and the delusions started on day two, and I think in this very scene when Dean is watching the mirror and sees the Wraith. It is also the day when Sammy is unable to control his anger for the first time. So, concerning that Deans therapy session was for real, we learned a lot of disturbing facts about the guy. No sleep and still that lot of alcohol? Doesn't sound like the nightmares are gone.

The things set loose by the nurse was the anger in Sammy and Deans fear of being unable to trust the thing he is seeing. This makes his breakdown in the end understandable, because he learns that he can't trust himself anymore. I didn't find this over the top. What a little disturbing was, was that delusional Dean was so funny. Didn't really fit to the seriousness of what was going on, but, well...

The end of course prepared a plothole. I don't really think that we won't see the stuff the boys had to leave behind any more (like their clothes and Sams watch).

starg8fans
January 26th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Love all the long discussion posts, but they're a b!tch to multi-quote, so here are my thoughts on your thoughts. (Hope I can remember most of it.)

As Iolanda said, Spn rarely does the expected, so I wasn't surprised that this episode didn't pick up after Death rising. And Sam's comment in the beginning about them taking a time out to deal with Ellen's and Jo's death, as well as his revelation about the rage inside him at the end tied this one in with 5.10 enough for me.

I also didn't think that Dean's collapse was OTT. It has been mentioned several times already that Dean is riddled with insecurity, and since the Wraith just multiplied their inner flaws, this would turn Dean into this panicked state of fear in the way they showed - just as the anger turned into all-out rage for Sam.

Great point about the doctor being real at first, Iolanda. When I re-watched the episode, I wondered that Dean's projection would go as far as seeing her in the mirror. Also, I thought her make-up was more 'extreme' in the scene when she challenged him about the first seal etc, so I'm going with the assumption that this is the first time that Dean was imagining her there.

I also think that the fact that the Wraith couldn't retract the rest of the stinger before it died should get Martin off the hook. And now that it's not messing with his mind anymore, he may become 'normal' again. I wouldn't surprise me if this mysterious business in Albuquerque will addressed again later this season, and if Martin showed up again.

I also like the twist at the end, with Dean telling Sam that in actually his way of burying things was the way to go. Since Everybody loves a Clown the premise has always been that Sam needs to get Dean to open up and share his feelings - which he has done on a few occasions - when maybe it should be Sam who can learn a thing or two from Dean what it takes to deal with everything that's being thrown at them.

LtColCarter
January 26th, 2010, 08:58 AM
Love all the long discussion posts, but they're a b!tch to multi-quote, so here are my thoughts on your thoughts. (Hope I can remember most of it.)

As Iolanda said, Spn rarely does the expected, so I wasn't surprised that this episode didn't pick up after Death rising. And Sam's comment in the beginning about them taking a time out to deal with Ellen's and Jo's death, as well as his revelation about the rage inside him at the end tied this one in with 5.10 enough for me.

I also didn't think that Dean's collapse was OTT. It has been mentioned several times already that Dean is riddled with insecurity, and since the Wraith just multiplied their inner flaws, this would turn Dean into this panicked state of fear in the way they showed - just as the anger turned into all-out rage for Sam.

Great point about the doctor being real at first, Iolanda. When I re-watched the episode, I wondered that Dean's projection would go as far as seeing her in the mirror. Also, I thought her make-up was more 'extreme' in the scene when she challenged him about the first seal etc, so I'm going with the assumption that this is the first time that Dean was imagining her there.

I also think that the fact that the Wraith couldn't retract the rest of the stinger before it died should get Martin off the hook. And now that it's not messing with his mind anymore, he may become 'normal' again. I wouldn't surprise me if this mysterious business in Albuquerque will addressed again later this season, and if Martin showed up again.

I also like the twist at the end, with Dean telling Sam that in actually his way of burying things was the way to go. Since Everybody loves a Clown the premise has always been that Sam needs to get Dean to open up and share his feelings - which he has done on a few occasions - when maybe it should be Sam who can learn a thing or two from Dean what it takes to deal with everything that's being thrown at them.

Good point!

I like all of the dicussion too! :D

Crichiel
January 26th, 2010, 01:22 PM
I also like the twist at the end, with Dean telling Sam that in actually his way of burying things was the way to go. Since Everybody loves a Clown the premise has always been that Sam needs to get Dean to open up and share his feelings - which he has done on a few occasions - when maybe it should be Sam who can learn a thing or two from Dean what it takes to deal with everything that's being thrown at them.

I agree, great point! I hadn't thought of this before, but it is absolutely true. :)

the fifth man
January 26th, 2010, 05:26 PM
Actually, "Swap Meat" doesn't look as good as this one was. But, this show can surprise you.

marielabbott
January 26th, 2010, 05:42 PM
-More long-term continuity: I like High-Sam saying that Dean hasn't been the same since returning from hell, and maybe even before that. Very true. Also nice to hear him say he loves him, even if he is stoned when he says it! :)

Was that the first time we heard one of the brothers actually say the L word to the other? They say it all the time non-verbally, but I can't recall it ever being spoken. If so, I do think that was kind of wasted. I had a hazy picture of them exchanging "I love yous" right before dying together to save the world. :p

I enjoyed the ep, the delving a little into the psyches of the boys, and the funny bits. I liked Martin (I've enjoyed some of Jon Gries' roles). I'm curious as to what did happen to him...maybe it's a loose end that will unexpectedly come up in a future ep? You never know with SPN what small detail will become important later.

starg8fans
January 26th, 2010, 07:31 PM
Was that the first time we heard one of the brothers actually say the L word to the other? They say it all the time non-verbally, but I can't recall it ever being spoken. If so, I do think that was kind of wasted. I had a hazy picture of them exchanging "I love yous" right before dying together to save the world. :p

Good question. It will require some research, but think you're right, it was the first time. I don't know about 'wasted', though. Thiese are the Winchesters after all, and it probably takes one to by stoned out of his mind to be able to say it.


I enjoyed the ep, the delving a little into the psyches of the boys, and the funny bits. I liked Martin (I've enjoyed some of Jon Gries' roles). I'm curious as to what did happen to him...maybe it's a loose end that will unexpectedly come up in a future ep? You never know with SPN what small detail will become important later.

I really enjoyed Martin's character and performance too. I hope we'll find out a bit more about him and whatever happened in Albuquerque.

MusicalMorphine
January 27th, 2010, 02:42 PM
Watched this ep today, I'm too tired to quote write now so I'll just say a few thoughts lol.

Overall I liked the episode. It was weird hearing them say straight off what they were doing, no cover-ups, no fake badges, just the truth. I know it was to get them into the facility because no-one would believe them, but I almost felt like it was refreshing for them to be straight and not have to lie about anything.

I agree that Dean's fear may have been slightly overdone but it was interesting to see again.

I think everyone has noticed Sam's rage for a while, and at the end I have to admit I did kind of go "oh not again" and I think Dean may have had that thought too.

I have to admit, I skipped over very last bit when Sam was drugged because I kind of knew it was coming and I get weird and uncomfortable when they get mushy LOL, even though I know Sam was "under the influence".

Did anyone else think Sam was a little too comfortable with cutting that guy's head open? I mean, I know he needed to check but idk, he didn't really seem to have any reservations about sawing into his head.. maybe I'm just over analysing?

I'm sure there's more I could say but I'm too tired to think right now so I'll come back later lol.

LtColCarter
January 28th, 2010, 09:01 AM
Actually, "Swap Meat" doesn't look as good as this one was. But, this show can surprise you.

It has surprised me many times!

LizzieAnne
January 29th, 2010, 01:57 PM
I've only just re-watched the ep to see if my first opinion changed. Maybe it has a little but it’s not going to go down as one of my favourites. Not that it was bad because I thought there was a pretty reasonable balance between the darker elements and the humour.

On the positive side:
The acting of Jared and Jensen is always good but in this I thought it was great and that for me saved the day.
The fun bits with Dean dropping his pants and drugged Sam tweaking Dean’s nose.
I was pleased that the male doc turned out to be a good guy and I loved the touching scene with Sam apologising to him. For me that showed how Sam hasn't lost any of his humanity and is still the sensitive soul he always has been despite all that’s happened to him.
The chat that Dean had with ‘the imaginary Doc’ about his issues. (I see that some people here think she was real in the beginning and then she became imaginary, but I don't think so. No one intereacted with her except Dean...and when the male doc passed them he only spoke to Dean ..and didn't look at her. Wouldn't the writers have made it more obvious if one was real and the other not? I'll have to re-watch to make really sure...) Although, for me, before we knew the Doc wasn't real, I liked it more, then finding out she was from his own subconscious kind of changed it for me because you then know that he's having a discussion with himself and that 'she' can only ask questions that he can handle and easily respond to.

And on the negative:
It kind of felt that the whole ep was a lot of set pieces forced into the standard horror theme of the creepy psychiatric hospital. So over done. In fact it reminded me of the Folsom Prison and Yellow Fever eps put together, with the writers thinking how great those eps were and deciding to cobble together something similar and hoped it would all come out in the wash.
Dean becoming a quivering wreck again....just like in Yellow Fever .
Putting themselves into an institution again where they have no control over the situation...they've done that already and found it difficult. Why didn't they become docs or cleaners?
Sam losing control when his subconscious had Dean blaming him again and everyone calling him a freak.

For me the story didn’t flow or really mean much. It seemed that the whole thing was staged to lead up to the last few minutes that had Sam talking about his anger issues and Dean saying they had to bury their feelings deep and get on with it. Well yeah…..I know that already!!! I just felt that the writers were bashing me over the head with the obvious. It's as if Sam had suddenly noticed that he was tall or Dean noticing that he was a flirt!.

Anyhow I suppose I was expecting more, especially after the scenes in the last ep with the big deal of Dean shooting Lucifer and Lucifer telling Sam that the pent up rage in him was going to be useful. Plus the whole issue of Ellen and Jo dying which, although was mentioned, was glossed over. Why didn’t they mention The Colt or the rising of Death …… all huge events in the story and in their lives.

Overall I was disappointed. Maybe I’ve started to expect too much.

I'll have to check out who wrote that ep...it'll be interesting to see who it was.




Did anyone else think Sam was a little too comfortable with cutting that guy's head open? I mean, I know he needed to check but idk, he didn't really seem to have any reservations about sawing into his head.. maybe I'm just over analysing?
lol.

It crossed my mind as well..I suppose he was under the influence of the Wraith at that point...but if he wasn't ..when did he turn into the guy whose totally OK with cutting off the top of someone's head :S

starg8fans
January 30th, 2010, 01:19 AM
Overall I liked the episode. It was weird hearing them say straight off what they were doing, no cover-ups, no fake badges, just the truth. I know it was to get them into the facility because no-one would believe them, but I almost felt like it was refreshing for them to be straight and not have to lie about anything.

Actually, that seems to be the theme now - (slight 5.12 spoiler)they did the same thing with their former babysitter's daughter at the beginning of Swap Meat.


Did anyone else think Sam was a little too comfortable with cutting that guy's head open? I mean, I know he needed to check but idk, he didn't really seem to have any reservations about sawing into his head.. maybe I'm just over analysing?


It crossed my mind as well..I suppose he was under the influence of the Wraith at that point...but if he wasn't ..when did he turn into the guy whose totally OK with cutting off the top of someone's head :S

Well, the guy was dead anyway, so how would it hurt him? I wasn't that surprised, after all it was Sam who went back to the corpse in Fallen Idols and cut it open to find those nuts or seeds that finally told them what they were dealing with. In a way it's just another kind of research. I was more suprised that Dean was so squeamish about it.


I was pleased that the male doc turned out to be a good guy and I loved the touching scene with Sam apologising to him. For me that showed how Sam hasn't lost any of his humanity and is still the sensitive soul he always has been despite all that’s happened to him.

Yeah, the doc as the bad guy would have been too obvious. And the scene with Sam apologizing was a nice bit of character continuity.


The chat that Dean had with ‘the imaginary Doc’ about his issues. (I see that some people here think she was real in the beginning and then she became imaginary, but I don't think so. No one intereacted with her except Dean...and when the male doc passed them he only spoke to Dean ..and didn't look at her. Wouldn't the writers have made it more obvious if one was real and the other not? I'll have to re-watch to make really sure...) Although, for me, before we knew the Doc wasn't real, I liked it more, then finding out she was from his own subconscious kind of changed it for me because you then know that he's having a discussion with himself and that 'she' can only ask questions that he can handle and easily respond to.

I thought earlier that she was real, but I'm not so sure now after a re-watch. Still, I don't think that she only gave him questions that were easy to respond to, at least not off camera. Dean was visibly shaken after having to discuss his 'daddy issues' with her ("I was theraped." LOL) If she was imaginary, does that mean that he wants to explore that side of himself?


It kind of felt that the whole ep was a lot of set pieces forced into the standard horror theme of the creepy psychiatric hospital. So over done. In fact it reminded me of the Folsom Prison and Yellow Fever eps put together, with the writers thinking how great those eps were and deciding to cobble together something similar and hoped it would all come out in the wash.
Putting themselves into an institution again where they have no control over the situation...they've done that already and found it difficult. Why didn't they become docs or cleaners?

I don't think it was intentional. But with almost 100 eps under their bellies, we are bound to revisit certain scenarios again. If they had gone in as a doc and a janitor, it would have been like After School Special.


For me the story didn’t flow or really mean much. It seemed that the whole thing was staged to lead up to the last few minutes that had Sam talking about his anger issues and Dean saying they had to bury their feelings deep and get on with it. Well yeah…..I know that already!!! I just felt that the writers were bashing me over the head with the obvious. It's as if Sam had suddenly noticed that he was tall or Dean noticing that he was a flirt!.

Of course it would be obvious to you, but maybe not to the many casual viewers out there. I believe the fact that they dragged Sam's rage front and center means that it will play a major part later in the season.


Anyhow I suppose I was expecting more, especially after the scenes in the last ep with the big deal of Dean shooting Lucifer and Lucifer telling Sam that the pent up rage in him was going to be useful. Plus the whole issue of Ellen and Jo dying which, although was mentioned, was glossed over. Why didn’t they mention The Colt or the rising of Death …… all huge events in the story and in their lives.

I was wondering about that as well. But on the other hand, we have ten episodes left, how can you keep the Apocalyptic endgame going at a high energy level for so long? I expect this season to be a kind of puzzle. Each of these more or less stand alone episodes could provide a small bit of information that will come together in the end to explain what's gonna happen (or not happen) and why.

LizzieAnne
January 30th, 2010, 05:43 AM
Well, the guy was dead anyway, so how would it hurt him? I wasn't that surprised, after all it was Sam who went back to the corpse in Fallen Idols and cut it open to find those nuts or seeds that finally told them what they were dealing with. In a way it's just another kind of research. I was more suprised that Dean was so squeamish about it.


Well I hardly thought Sam would cut the top of someone's head off while they're still alive...:lol:
He just seemed to be a little too unaffected. I just hope his character is kept consistent.




I thought earlier that she was real, but I'm not so sure now after a re-watch. Still, I don't think that she only gave him questions that were easy to respond to, at least not off camera. Dean was visibly shaken after having to discuss his 'daddy issues' with her ("I was theraped." LOL) If she was imaginary, does that mean that he wants to explore that side of himself?


I think you're right..despite his protests he does want to understand himself..or at least his subconscious is itching to have it's say.



I don't think it was intentional. But with almost 100 eps under their bellies, we are bound to revisit certain scenarios again. If they had gone in as a doc and a janitor, it would have been like After School Special.


I don't mind them repeating the scenarios...I just want them to pick the ones which are most realistic. I have no problem with them being FBI agents over and over or any other aliases they have regularly done. They are both very smart guys and for once it didn't seem a very smart thing to do.




Of course it would be obvious to you, but maybe not to the many casual viewers out there. I believe the fact that they dragged Sam's rage front and center means that it will play a major part later in the season.


Er..wow I hardly know how to respond to that! If I thought the eps were now going to to be made with the casual viewer in mind and not the loyal fan base, I would be right royally p!ssed annoyed I can tell you. I hope TPTB haven't developed that attitude.
There are loads of examples of Sam's rage already, not least at the end of the previous ep.
Lucifer made a bit deal of it. "That's good Sam, you keep that fire in your belly..all that pent up rage...I'm going to need it!"



I was wondering about that as well. But on the other hand, we have ten episodes left, how can you keep the Apocalyptic endgame going at a high energy level for so long? I expect this season to be a kind of puzzle. Each of these more or less stand alone episodes could provide a small bit of information that will come together in the end to explain what's gonna happen (or not happen) and why.

I agree ..I've said before I don't have any problem with stand alone eps..I'm quite happy with little snippets of the story arc moving things along. I just felt the ending of the previous ep and the beginning of this one didn't have any connection. I know it's happened before in the past with eps but with all that's happening now... it's all so important, monumental even... that for Sam and Dean to check themselves into an institution and then hardly mentioned what had happened to them didn't seem right to me.