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GateWorld
January 12th, 2010, 05:26 AM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border: none;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/"><!IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2131.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">SANCTUARY SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">KALI, PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE="1">EPISODE NUMBER - 213</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="10" ALT="">
Will finds himself psychically connected with Kali, one of the most powerful Abnormals on Earth, who is also the target of a wealthy man seeking to be connected with her, as well.

<FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/sanctuary/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE ></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Phantom6
January 15th, 2010, 06:53 PM
Will's dance.


God I can't stop laughing.




Who was the Actress that played Kali?

lordofseas
January 15th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Awesome.

Skydiver
January 15th, 2010, 07:06 PM
i gotta admit, i couldn't watch will dance. i have a 'making a fool of one's self' quirk, just can't watch characters doing things

but...what a cliffie

paul/wexford reprises his role...only to be a PITA know it all.

helen seems to be surrounded by some very back biting betrayers.

i liked seeing the mumbai sanctuary, now we know that there's one in lima and yet more of helen's past comes back to haunt her

very enjoyable despite the dancing :)

Replicator Todd
January 15th, 2010, 07:08 PM
Erm, not exactly the best season finale of a TV show. Thats all I will say. It was pretty sweet seeing Paul Mcgillion as the...whatever he was! :P

jckfan55
January 15th, 2010, 07:15 PM
Wow! What a cliffhanger! I thought it had a lot of great elements and some good mystery and suspense throughout. I even liked Will dancing. :) Wanted to shoot Wexford on the spot.
Oh, the torture of waiting for the next season to start.... You have to wonder how they're going to write their way out of this one!

shel
January 15th, 2010, 07:19 PM
I cannot believe that is how they ended the season! :eek: Why did it have to be some giant cliff hanger? :mckay:

Nice seeing Paul back, but his character seemed to like control way to much

dmovies
January 15th, 2010, 07:20 PM
:) This was a outstanding finale!! What a great storyline. It was fresh and different. Kudos to Team Sanctuary!!
Will's dance.


God I can't stop laughing.




Who was the Actress that played Kali?

Replicator Todd
January 15th, 2010, 07:21 PM
I loved Paul's character...I dunno why but something clicked in my head that just said "awesome". I honestly got a little angry at the dancing scene, it didn't even look like dancing! :P I can't wait for the next season though.

Phantom6
January 15th, 2010, 07:25 PM
I loved Paul's character...I dunno why but something clicked in my head that just said "awesome". I honestly got a little angry at the dancing scene, it didn't even look like dancing! :P I can't wait for the next season though.

It was much more "normal" when we were seeing it through his vision. Actually it looked damn cool during the "Spiritual" modes.

tsaxlady
January 15th, 2010, 07:33 PM
I've been pretty luke warm about S2 for the most part but I enjoyed tonights two part episode. I have been to India several times and while yes there are some things I would have liked to see be done better with the India parts I was able to over look it for the most part. But as some one that does like to watch Bollywood films. I was pleased with the Bollywood style dance scene. Very appropriate for an episode based almost 100% in India.

Plus I finally have something to ask about at the SE Con in July. So all in all a good night as far as I was concerned.

Not surprised to see them leave the season off with a big cliff hanger.

Replicator Todd
January 15th, 2010, 07:35 PM
It was much more "normal" when we were seeing it through his vision. Actually it looked damn cool during the "Spiritual" modes.

Actually, it did look cool, but I guess the crowd watching him bothered me most because if someone was acting like that I wouldn't stick around! :P

Samantha.Majka
January 15th, 2010, 07:35 PM
I like this ending of season 2. Even if I can´t wait for season 3. :-) It was awesome and Will´s dance.. lol .. ok, it was cool. :-)

Mandysg1
January 15th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Um...I really don't know what to say about this one. The good elements were: 1) The politics going on behind Helen's back, with Wexford trying to take over the Sanctuary. I wonder if he had plans to try and take and just used this opportunity to get his way.

2) I didn't mind Big Bertha and the powers she had, oh and yea don't get her mad ;)

3) The cliff hanger was good, with the massive tidal wave heading for Season 3 :P

4) Oh yea Helen in another helicopter and it didn't crash :p

Ok, what I didn't care for was the whole Will's link to Kali, the dancing just made me shudder. Not that he didn't dance well, it just didn't make sense, and looked silly to me. "How do I find Kali....I can dance" :tealcanime49:

I also had to wonder why Kate was leading the search for Will, shouldn't it have been the guy who was the head of the Mumbai sanctuary?

So for me it had some good elements and some bad, but I guess I'm spoiled by last season's cliff hanger, which I think was much better.

AresLover452
January 15th, 2010, 07:51 PM
Will's dance.


God I can't stop laughing.




I could not stop laughing as well. I sometimes like to watch the Bollywood dances but Will doing it just seemed.... out of place and funny.

the fifth man
January 15th, 2010, 07:53 PM
What an ending to the season. Those other Sanctuary heads are going to so regret betraying Helen like they did.

AresLover452
January 15th, 2010, 07:57 PM
What an ending to the season. Those other Sanctuary heads are going to so regret betraying Helen like they did.

They will regret it indeed. i mean how could they? It was so wrong and mean, and back stabbing and dirty and under handed.... Grrr.... Terrance was a loser.

EvenstarSRV
January 15th, 2010, 08:20 PM
Very enjoyable finale and a pretty good cliffhanger, though the tidal wave in the Indian ocean reminded me of the 2004 tsunami. Having spent a lot of time in Mumbai, including a brief visit to Daravi, I thought they did a good job with the scenes in India. And I liked the little references like 'no one moves fast in Mumbai' and Ravi and Kate's conversation about how to talk to people while looking for Will. And hearing all that Hindi was fun, I remembered more of that language than I thought.

Callum Blue was also quite fun as Forsythe and it was interesting to see Wexford back but playing the bad guy within the Sanctuary network, though I did enjoy the politics angle, since it makes sense that people would be doubting Helen after the events of End of Nights and Veritas.

I liked most of the Will and spider stuff, though the scene in the bath seemed rather gratuitous. I rather liked the dancing scene, not the best Bollywood dancing I've seen, but it worked for me since it's a bit of a theme in Bollywood films for the guy to dance to get the attention of the girl (and vice versa).

It's going to be a long wait for S3.

Phantom6
January 15th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Very enjoyable finale and a pretty good cliffhanger, though the tidal wave in the Indian ocean reminded me of the 2004 tsunami. Having spent a lot of time in Mumbai, including a brief visit to Daravi, I thought they did a good job with the scenes in India. And I liked the little references like 'no one moves fast in Mumbai' and Ravi and Kate's conversation about how to talk to people while looking for Will. And hearing all that Hindi was fun, I remembered more of that language than I thought.

Callum Blue was also quite fun as Forsythe and it was interesting to see Wexford back but playing the bad guy within the Sanctuary network, though I did enjoy the politics angle, since it makes sense that people would be doubting Helen after the events of End of Nights and Veritas.

I liked most of the Will and spider stuff, though the scene in the bath seemed rather gratuitous. I rather liked the dancing scene, not the best Bollywood dancing I've seen, but it worked for me since it's a bit of a theme in Bollywood films for the guy to dance to get the attention of the girl (and vice versa).

It's going to be a long wait for S3.



The bath scene, the water being fake just ruined it for me. They couldn't just get a big tank and then use CG to darken the water?

Honestly the digital water looked god awful.


I ask again, who was Kali's actress? I swear I've seen her in something before but I can not place her.

charles582
January 15th, 2010, 08:48 PM
A great 2 part episode! I found something interesting on the web. I looked up the name durga, the name kali called will, turns out it is a female goddess. I wonder if will knows he is possessed by a woman?

tze
January 15th, 2010, 09:02 PM
Those other Sanctuary heads are going to so regret betraying Helen like they did.

Druitt is going to CUT A *****.

Wexford said the vote was unanimous. But the head of the Cairo Sanctuary seemed to dislike Wexford, and I doubt Declan would be so quick to sanction Magnus's overthow after what happened last time. Something's very wrong here.

I heart Forsythe. Sure he's evil, but there's just something about him...what did he want with Big Bertha, if not money and power?

wine_buyer
January 15th, 2010, 09:30 PM
I really hate cliffhangers. Always have. Always will. :mckay:

Too tired to post beyond that so g'night.

Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight
January 15th, 2010, 09:34 PM
I ask again, who was Kali's actress? I swear I've seen her in something before but I can not place her.

Her name is Sahar Biniaz. I haven't seen her in anything, but I hope that helps. ^_^

Now about the ep! Oh my god, Will's dance--I couldn't stop laughing! I was like, 'Hm...somebody watched Slumdog Millionaire one too many times. :lol: Otherwise, it was really good. Although, I liked Paul's character better in the webisodes as a charismatic informant rather than the a**hole beaurecrat (sp?) he plays in this ep.

Sigh. But on a happier note, I LOVED Forsythe's character. I was so scared he was gonna die that I hardly paid attention through the whole thing. :o I love those types of villains, though. The power-hungry, cool and collected--not to mention gorgeous--kind that would just as soon laugh as shoot you in the head. (Which is probably why I love Nikola Tesla's character so much. :)) I was ecstatic that he survived and his last line: "Oooh, she's mad!" :D I hope to see more of him throughout season 3.

Uhm, I think that's all. I almost cried when I realized this meant the season is over. :(

Anybody know when it returns for season 3?

tricky
January 15th, 2010, 09:49 PM
While I came into the middle of the ep, I'm not too sure about it; maybe next season, when the Sirens threaten Europe, Kate can do some Kareoke?

I don't think the Network people are totally out of line about Magnus: From their perspective she let an extremely dangerous creature live, and failed to bring it down twice now. Wexford over stepped his bounds, cutting off radio communication (and why didn't Kate let Magnus know that it looked like Will had managed to reach Kali? Having that kind of knowledge might have helped things), which is going to lead to much of India and Africa's coasts being flooded.

And, on a sorta personal note: that guy who makes the episode previews has struck again: the preview for this ep contained mostly scenes from the last 15 minutes! So I knew she was going to be mad at him, so I know Wexford was going to double cross Helen.
And I knew Will would dance, for better or for worse.

Chelle DB
January 15th, 2010, 10:11 PM
I really hate cliffhangers. Always have. Always will. :mckay:
Too tired to post beyond that so g'night.
Me too...I hate cliffhangers with a passion. Can we have just one season where it doesn't end with a cliffhanger?? I guess on the flip side, it will entice you to want to come back and watch the next season...but I still hate cliffhangers. Haven't' seen the ep yet but am looking forward to it...except I am getting a bit bored with Helen being challenged by her own people...this whole overthrow of power...the take over of Helen's duties is getting old and silly. I mean really, who can this woman trust? There needs to be a big shake up with who's running these Sanctuaries and time to weed out the deceivers and keep the loyal ones closer.
As for Wexford...I loved him in the webisodes...pity we didn't get him back. I suspect I am going to enjoy the Bollywood number though. Not sure that I like the idea of a tsunami hitting India considering what's happened in real life there...kinda got mixed feelings about that.

tsaxlady
January 15th, 2010, 11:17 PM
The bath scene, the water being fake just ruined it for me. They couldn't just get a big tank and then use CG to darken the water?

Honestly the digital water looked god awful.


I ask again, who was Kali's actress? I swear I've seen her in something before but I can not place her.


Sahar Biniaz she has been in a few episodes of Smallville and was in several episodes of Blade the series if you watched either of those maybe that is were you recognize here from.


As for Will's dancing I'll admit it was not the best job of Bollywood style dancing but I still think with an episode based mainly in India it fit the story line and I rather enjoyed it. Different strokes for different folks.

wurlitzer153
January 15th, 2010, 11:31 PM
Podcast!
http://www.syfy.com/sanctuary/includes/podcasts/mp3/212-213/sanctuary_episode212-213_commentary.mp3

trunksy
January 16th, 2010, 12:24 AM
Sahar Biniaz she has been in a few episodes of Smallville and was in several episodes of Blade the series if you watched either of those maybe that is were you recognize here from.


As for Will's dancing I'll admit it was not the best job of Bollywood style dancing but I still think with an episode based mainly in India it fit the story line and I rather enjoyed it. Different strokes for different folks.

The folks that laughed at the dancing should open their minds to the world outside of their doors. If you haven't noticed, globalization is happening. We no longer live in a world where culture lives in a vacuum. As the world's most populous nation, East Indian culture is not something you will be able to avoid going forward. It's great to see Sanctuary take on this new challenge.

Oh, and thanks for the podcost link!

Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight
January 16th, 2010, 01:26 AM
The folks that laughed at the dancing should open their minds to the world outside of their doors. If you haven't noticed, globalization is happening. We no longer live in a world where culture lives in a vacuum. As the world's most populous nation, East Indian culture is not something you will be able to avoid going forward. It's great to see Sanctuary take on this new challenge.

Hey, I'm all for open-mindedness. Actually I thought the backup dancing was really beautiful in an exotic way. I laughed through the whole thing cos Will looked like an escaped crazy from an asylum what with the wild eyes and sweat-soaked pyjamas.

No offense meant to anyone. :)

LunaSolTierra
January 16th, 2010, 01:54 AM
I thought the episode was great. Though his reasons make sense, Terrence is a pain in the ass. I loved the interaction between Kate and Ravi and I'm glad he talk to her about her attitude, she definitely needed that. She was born in India but doesn't exactly embrace her Indian culture. I'm glad she realize she doesn't have to be hostile and guarded all the time, all she has to do is be polite and respectful of others and they'll respond in kind. Will dancing was hilarious but I think it was a good, given most of the episode was in India. The bath scene was very unnecessary, I didn't like it at all. I did like finding out about more sanctuaries. I think Forsythe wants to rule the world or longevity or both. One of my favorite scenes was when Helen seem overwhelm and Kate gave her a pep talk, that scene said a lot about Kate. She has change a lot, from a con artist who only care about herself to a responsible woman ready to do her part and step up to the plate when needed. Overall I like the story and the plot twist and I look forward to the next season.

helenmagnus23
January 16th, 2010, 02:49 AM
OMG! boath eps were so cool i love it when they make it movie length :) i'm goona watch it again :)

kes
January 16th, 2010, 03:38 AM
Kali I and II podcast is up: http://www.syfy.com/sanctuary/podcasts.php

siles
January 16th, 2010, 05:04 AM
Wow! One of the weakest episodes this season
1. Will's dance - lame
2. Helen should have been demoted sooner in the episode by the other Sanctuary directors for the Big Bertha situation - for keeping her alive and for not having sufficient security to prevent her escape.
3. How come Helen didn't strap Will to the bed or provide security to prevent a supposedly delirious patient from wandering around and eventually fleeing the Mumbai sanctuary???
4. Kate is still annoying as hell
5. Some of the CGI looked bad (the underwater scenes especially)

I loved
1. Forsythe
2. The Head of Mumbai Sanctuary
3. Paul/Wexford
4. The actress that played Kali

hisg1fans
January 16th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Dancing?

Is this what the phrase "jump the shark" means? Please tell me I did not just watch Sanctuary: The Musical.

meredithchandler73
January 16th, 2010, 05:23 AM
Wow - really loved this two-parter! My random thoughts:

--I'm not surprised there was a cliffhanger, but I wasn't expecting THAT big of a cliffhanger!
--The dancing didn't bother me. If I was going to change anything about the episode, I would have gotten rid of the bath scene. Unnecessary.
--I love that Kali was Big Bertha! I just love that they put that together.
--Looking forward to finding out what the villain was really after.
--At first I was *so* excited to see Wexford (Paul McGillion). As someone else mentioned, I really liked him in the webisode (much more charismatic) as opposed to the jerk that he plays now. So conniving! I'll be interested to find out how things play out and if we ever seen him again.
--On a similar note, I hope we're done with the Sanctuary network power struggles for a LONG time.

lopo30
January 16th, 2010, 06:35 AM
it was good episode to bad they dont have more then 13 ep per season
now we must wait for summer or worst fall to see the new ep

the dancing was funny and part of the india culture (what didnt make it funny) the fun part of it was Will

MelissaAdams
January 16th, 2010, 06:47 AM
Hi folks,

I know I don't post on here often, just too much too do and too many threads to keep up with...LOL But I wanted to share my thoughts on this episode. Does the fact that I was up to till 5am this morning tell you ANYTHING about how much I liked it???? LOL

Why I'm going to say the overall episode was great and why isn't it Fall of this year yet, I do want to get my one biggest gripe out of the way and maybe someone can explain it to me as I normally don't get into political stories much, at least the behind the scenes stuff and for us Stargate fans I do have to say that Wexford reminded me of what the IOA do in Stargate. There to be a constant pain in the a**, but they wouldn't know how to make a good decision if it bit their head off.

My complaint however or rather my question since I don't understand is why I understand someone within the Sanctuary would likely probably take over for or try to take over for Magnus (I think Helen probably figured on that and has a plan in place we'll see in Season 3, think of Veritas people she's long thinking), but it was pointed out that Wexford was the 'newest' head of house/leader within the network so why on all that is holy would the other heads of house vote the rookie to take it over? My choice since they already did it to a degree would have been probably Declan, he clearly understands the landscape and he's been involed in running a house far longer than Wexford has? It just confused me, what do you all think? What did I miss so it would make sense.

I have to say that I wasn't at all sure I'd love Will's dancing but the truth is that I it turned out really well and I think it has a very vital purpose to the episode. He had to use the dance to get Kali/Bertha's attention away from her 'chosen' herald since he had the Makri inside him (Blue's character) and in a hallucination it normally would take something silly and out there, at least in my opinion.

The Ravi character was one I really liked, I hope we get to see more of him in season three. It's clear he's young but he's impressed with Magnus and willing to learn from her yet he also is quick to share his opinion.

Did anyone else think of the movie Tremors when you saw the sand ray in the desert with wings?? LOL, I laughed till I cried (Mental note I gotta go back and watch that movie)

I loved Helen in this episode but then again I love her in most, so that's not news. LOL She's just developing the character so well and she's so measured but I kept just wanting her to deck Wexford, just once...come on one good belly punch or maybe throw him over the side, let me out swim the tidal wave...the idiot. *grumbles*

Overall a FANTASTIC episode that I thoroughly enjoyed and will watch over and over and over again...is it fall yet?

Melissa

RDAfan61
January 16th, 2010, 07:05 AM
I thought it was a good end to the season although, I too am not fond of cliff hangers even though I understand why they do them.

I think Forsythe sees himself as a kind of "God". To me he didn't want to rule the world or anything because he kept mentioning "The end of days". To me, he wants to wipe out everyone or mostly everyone. Why, that I am not totally sure, maybe because of all the war and violence going on these days, who knows.

With the ending of the show I don't see Helen as having to worry too much about her position because it was pretty obvious that what she was doing with Big Bertha was the way to go after all and not Terrance's but I guess we'll see about that too. I wonder if he really gained control over the *whole* network too otherwise why would he block all communication? Somethings not kosher there I don't think.

The dancing, I am not familiar with "Bollywood". I felt a bit uncomfortable for him through it and all I could think was that the producers and writers had been watching How I Met Your Mother who also did a big dance scene recently, this week in fact I think. I liked the vision scenes of it.

I too thought the bath scene was rather gratuitous but didn't see the water as digital. Guess I'll have to go back and check that out.

I am liking Kate more than I did when she first was brought on. I think she was heading up the search for Will instead of Ravi because he is her friend and co-worker so she felt more obligated to find him.

Looking forward to season 3. Anyone know how long we have to wait?

jasminaGo
January 16th, 2010, 07:06 AM
Hmmm.... interesting episode(s). I liked the world wide feeling to it. Lots of travel, lots of info, and the effects were pretty good.

Also liked the politics behind the Sanctuary. I think the heads of houses (especially Wexford) will have some groveling to do before Helen, for doubting her judgment and generally f****** up. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. :S

Helen flying and not crashing is always a good thing. :p

Forsythe was an interesting character, can't wait to see what happens to him in S3.

What I had problem with was the whole Will dances to call for Kali thing. It just didn't make any kind of logical sense, and it was too much fairy tail for my taste. Lets all clap out hands to save Tinkerbell... :S The choreography was nice tho'.

The season is over and I have to say that AT, MW and DK pretty much delivered on most of the promises they made before the beginning of the season, except for one thing. Still can't get into Kate. She doesn't bug me as much as she did in the first episodes, but I still can't say I'm fan to the character, or even care about her in any way. She's just there... and if she isn't... I still wouldn't care.

All in all, bring on S3. Can't wait to see how they'll get out of this one.

Skydiver
January 16th, 2010, 07:35 AM
All in all, I liked the big bertha/kali connection. It fits within the show. How many of earth's old myths and legends are really abnormals? and how many 'monster' were really sentient life forms?

I can even deal with the will connection. Someone has to have it. I love Ravi and the mumbai sanctuary. Along with the woman at the cairo one as well. it showed the true global nature of the whole thing.

I even had no issue with helen not killing bertha. She was right, and i'm sure she'll cite some 'look, we killed so and so and then their absence led to this critter looking for them and there was that tornado because of it' or something like that.

the power struggles....you know, Helen is THE boss, how come she doesn't get rid of the trouble makers? she does extensive background checks on folks and doesn't see instabilities? She seems to have made some very bad decisions in regards to people, and they still exist after Veratis.

I had no problem with the dude searching for the makree. It's power and it's 'normal' for humans to go lusting for power.

I think, wexford should be shot :)
dude is obviously working an angle....personally? given wexford's prior fascination with ancient texts, i think he's the organizer of the whole coup, and there is no real 'firing' of magnus. Ravi is a head of household and he made no mention, he acts like he knows nothing about a committee meeting. I think wexford is trying to prove some point and he's behind it all.

The biggest issue i had of the whole thing is...a) will the whumping boy. how many times have the bad guys used him as the damsel in distress? b( the dancing.

and before anyone plays the 'you're a narrow minded person'....no, it ain't about culture. It's a quirk of mine, i HATE it when i see characters on shows making asses of themselves. I hate 'possessed by entities' episode. (i watched Entity tucked behind my laptop screen and don't rewatch it because i find it painful to watch sam act that way, same with the lucius episodes and other 'alien makes me act stupid' episodes)

I thought the dancing was stupid. fun maybe, but not something I personally enjoyed.

And i too thought the bathtub scene was just gratuitous, a scene to get some titillation in there, ooh look, boobies. wasn't cringe worthy, just smacked of 'network suggestions to make it more 'interesting''

I liked it, i enjoyed it, i think it was a great cliffie and it set up a lot of things that could play out for s3

helen dealing with the attitude of 'let's kill the monsters' that some employees seem to have, having to deal with wexford - presuming he survives. looking over her own rules and how she handles things with the abbys.

it'll be interesting

Inquisitor
January 16th, 2010, 08:51 AM
I'd have to say that McGillion played his character very well, so well that I can't watch Beckett with a smile on my face any more on SGA..

tze
January 16th, 2010, 08:55 AM
the power struggles....you know, Helen is THE boss, how come she doesn't get rid of the trouble makers?

I got the impression that Wexford started showing his true colors only after he was promoted to Head of House. And since he hadn't technically broken any rules, she had no excuse to get rid of him.

I'm curious whether this type of 'coup' has happened before? My gut tells me no, for one major reason: James Watson. Prior to last year, Magnus had a Head of House in London who was completely loyal to her, had just about as much prestige as her, and was most likely the understood second-in-command of the Network. Anyone who wanted to overthrow Magnus would also have had to overthrow Watson, and it's rather difficult to win a game of strategy against Sherlock Holmes.

Now, Watson is gone and Magnus no longer has her safety net. The other Heads of House smell blood in the water and, with a number of new Heads of House being appointed after the Cabal attacks (Declan in London, the new guy in Tokyo, etc.), the traditional balance of power is screwed up to the point that any weakness on Magnus's part was seen as an invitation for an overthrow.

As to why Wexford would take over for Magnus over more experienced Heads of House...I'm stumped. Actually, I'm wondering if he only had the mandate to arrest her, and just assumed that meant he was in charge? He's power-hungry, I think he'd interpret any order that gave him a shred of power as broadly as possible. Declan stepped in to protect Magnus and her staff before---can't imagine why he wouldn't do so again here. (In fact, the Declan scenario made sense in Veritas because a) the London House was traditionally very autonomous and powerful, b) the other Heads of House were still reeling from the Cabal attacks and likely welcomed the stability of the 'traditional' chain of command taking over (i.e., London House taking over in Magnus's absence/incapacitation), and c) Watson might have left Declan standing orders re: what to do in case Magnus was ever incapacitated. Here, unless Wexford has some greater and more Machiavellian plan, I'm not seeing how he would consider this in any way a good plan.)

Druitt and Tesla combined forces to rip apart the Cabal---a millenia-old secret society with untold resources---in what? A year? Less? I don't think the other Heads really know about the Five (except possibly Declan---it was a secret even from Ashley), cause otherwise they'll have to know that their actions will bring down the wrath of some very scary people.

Skydiver
January 16th, 2010, 10:20 AM
i think wexford is using his knowledge to try something. he's looking for something, he's trying to prove a theory...something.
and he's using his power to prove it. like you said, he's broadly interpreting his orders to take as much power as possible.

I don't think the other heads of house know what he's doing

mercy moon
January 16th, 2010, 10:35 AM
... is the pterodactyl on the loose in london a little nod to torchwwod's myfanwy - after all she must have escaped the hub when it blew up!!

btw, i'm really, really warming to kate now!

ladyjanus
January 16th, 2010, 11:07 AM
First time I've had to get up and walk out of the room because of something lame on this series. Some of the stuff can get a trifle camp but ... bustin' out in a Bollywood dream sequence ... oh brother ...

Happy to see Paul, though, even if the character he's playing is a turd...

moofers
January 16th, 2010, 11:33 AM
I imagine the others heads of houses are pissed that they've been lied to and manipulated…again. Helen is the queen who won't die. Literally.

The whole Sanctuary Network is a cult of power and in Helen's case, personality, with little oversight, few rules, and almost no recourse for the run-of-the-mill abnormal. Think of how many are imprisoned for life both within the "shoe" and outside in "gen pop".

Magnus holds an unacceptable level of life and death control over these matters. She originally "euthanized" Big Bertha, all in accordance with the Sanctuary status quo. And her decisions, at least until now, always seem to be final. There is no living constitution in Sanctuary world.

Yes, Wexford is an ass — but I'm sure the other heads are happy for him to draw attention to himself while undermining the rule of Queen Helen.

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Wexford is dangerous. Even if he's only after power - which is enough to make me hate the character right off - the fact that he is willing to endanger millions of lives to get it...well, he's a serious threat to the integrity of the Network.

Also: the compulsive 'shipper in me spent an hour and a half going "Kate/Will, ahaha!" Which, um - I'll write as much Kate/Will fic as I get ideas for, but I don't think it should ever happen on the show.

echidnadon
January 16th, 2010, 12:10 PM
i don't think it's out of the question for will to have to dance to get kali's attention. in many religions, dances are offered as prayers, and perhaps that's what his dance was. many deities (including kali) are depicted dancing. the various poses of the hands, mudras, are important and according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra) stimulate the same regions of the brain as language. so in theory hand gestures could be used for communication. i don't know about the physiological effects of the placement of the feet, but as a long-ago student of bharata natyam (http://greetingindia.tripod.com/dance.html#bharatnatyam), i can attest to the great emphasis that is placed on correct positioning and movement (of the whole body, not just feet and hands). yes, the presentation in this ep was informal bollywood style, but that in itself is a reference to the ancient traditions that came before it.

i really enjoyed this two-parter and look forward to season 3. i'm not a fan of cliffhangers, though. if i like a show, i don't need to be manipulated into coming back. (the sarah jane adventures is exemplary in having closure but always drawing me back.)

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 12:14 PM
So a few things/thoughts i have about Kali:

1) as much as i love Paul McGillion and thought he did a splendid job portraying Wexford, i hate wexford! I cant believe anybody who works for Helen would so readily endanger millions of lives. Clearly he is just a powerhungry jerk who should get fired.

2) Will's dance = hysterical. I know it probably wasnt meant to be funny, and was well choreographed but im sorry, i died of laughter.

3) I'm not really sure i buy the idea that Helen, who basically created the Sanctuary network would get booted from it. that just doesnt make total sense to me. Especially not the fact that wexford said the other heads of houses were united in this decision when she seemed to have support from that woman in egypt, declan and ravi (spelling?) I just dont see every head of house turning on her and saying "well you may have saved millions of lives through your actions, and created the network, but we still want to kick you because wexford thinks its a good idea!" yeah idk that im buying that.

and thats my spiel. :)

Replicator Todd
January 16th, 2010, 12:22 PM
I would love Wexford to be a recurring antagonist in season 3, I really think he could become a great bad guy!

trunksy
January 16th, 2010, 12:27 PM
Hey, I'm all for open-mindedness. Actually I thought the backup dancing was really beautiful in an exotic way. I laughed through the whole thing cos Will looked like an escaped crazy from an asylum what with the wild eyes and sweat-soaked pyjamas.

No offense meant to anyone. :)

I just listened to the podcast and during the dance sequence, producer Martin Wood talked about how it is a well-known dance in India, the Rapati Songu (anyone know the correct spelling?).

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 12:38 PM
I would love Wexford to be a recurring antagonist in season 3, I really think he could become a great bad guy!

I agree. i think his character is truly intriguing especially since at this moment we dont really know what his motives or what his goals.

Mamzelle_Malicia
January 16th, 2010, 12:42 PM
I just watched it and it was so breathtaking, I'm completely shocked!!
Since the beginning I felt that this Terrence guy was weird and the way he behaved with Magnus showed that he had clearly no respect for her. I so hope he won't be in charge of the Sanctuary network in season 3, that would be unfair. I soo wanted to kill him all along lol.

I didn't know Will could be such a great dancer XD couldn't stop laughing even if I always have a hard time watching characters making fun of themselves (I know it's strange, and bothering also ><).

I really can't wait to see season 3, it seems so far away it's a torture lol.

Too bad Tesla and Druitt were not here, I hope we're going to see them more often ^^

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Quick thing about the very end...that growing tsunami? Yeah, I don't think they did much research. IIRC from my oceanography class, such waves have a small amplitude and a long wavelength - basically unnoticeable until they get close to shore, when the water is pulled back from the beach.

RealmOfX
January 16th, 2010, 01:11 PM
Quick thing about the very end...that growing tsunami? Yeah, I don't think they did much research. IIRC from my oceanography class, such waves have a small amplitude and a long wavelength - basically unnoticeable until they get close to shore, when the water is pulled back from the beach.

Yeah you're right about the start of the tsunami, that's what immediately popped into my head when we saw it created. However I don't think that it was because of lack of research rather that a real tsunami wave at sea is visually boring.

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 01:16 PM
Yeah you're right about the start of the tsunami, that's what immediately popped into my head when we saw it created. However I don't think that it was because of lack of research rather that a real tsunami wave at sea is visually boring.

True...but these are the things I obsess about. It wouldn't have been hard to guess what was happening, knowing what we know about Bertha's ability, and "visually boring" is preferable (to me at least) to "This is wrong, wrong, wrong!" (which is what I yelled when I saw the wave forming).

NightHawk777
January 16th, 2010, 02:12 PM
I enjoyed the episode.

When the flying creature first appeared, it was tiny, and I thought it could be a dragon ... that would have been awesome :o


The Sanctuary head in Japan had very wierd eyes. What was that about? Does he also have some kind of powers?

Wexford and Forsyth. I can't think of why Forsyth is bothering to do all the things he's done here. I also can't think of why Wexford pops up as the newest head of a Sanctuary, and then tries to take over the entire network. So tying the two together in my conspiracy, I'm going out on a limb and say that I think they might be working together.

When Will was insanely rushing around trying to find Kali, I kept asking "Where is that kid who said he was being trained to be a herald? " It seems he might have been able to help but he just disappeared.

Did anybody else like the grandma that was bugging Forsyth throughout the shows?

wine_buyer
January 16th, 2010, 03:02 PM
Me too...I hate cliffhangers with a passion. Can we have just one season where it doesn't end with a cliffhanger?? I guess on the flip side, it will entice you to want to come back and watch the next season...but I still hate cliffhangers. Haven't' seen the ep yet but am looking forward to it...except I am getting a bit bored with Helen being challenged by her own people...this whole overthrow of power...the take over of Helen's duties is getting old and silly. I mean really, who can this woman trust? There needs to be a big shake up with who's running these Sanctuaries and time to weed out the deceivers and keep the loyal ones closer.
As for Wexford...I loved him in the webisodes...pity we didn't get him back. I suspect I am going to enjoy the Bollywood number though. Not sure that I like the idea of a tsunami hitting India considering what's happened in real life there...kinda got mixed feelings about that.

What you have posted is exactly what I wanted to post last night but was too tired to do. :o I am also getting bored with Helen not being able to trust her own people. If it descends into being a show about the politics of Sanctuary then it will get boring pretty fast, at least for me. Other than that I enjoyed the episodes. I am 100% pro Kate now too. I think she proved her loyalty to Helen (something even the other Sanctuary heads can't seem to manage :mckay:) and there was a real warmth to her character in this 2 parter.

Edit: Went back and read all posts. I guess I am in the minority on the dance thing because I didn't find it embarrassing for the character nor did I find it funny. I thought, considering what the boy said to Helen, that the dance made sense and it was well done.

BayGateScape
January 16th, 2010, 03:12 PM
so far; season finale was the best from all Sanctuary episodes.

Laura Dove
January 16th, 2010, 03:16 PM
Just a quick message to say wow, I loved this episode(s). I surprisingly even enjoyed the dance. :D I get the feeling that the big flood Forsythe keeps talking about is just a consequence of his goal, not his goal itself, and that what he truly wants is
restore the Pangea, hence his need for Big Bertha. That, plus he sees himself the hand of God or something. ;)

Edit: I was just disappointed that they didn't even mention Kate's mother. :(
But I keep hopes that she's actually Bibi. :D

kes
January 16th, 2010, 03:20 PM
Just saw it, loved it. Damn, the wait is gonna kill me. But still new the Sancctuary villain is Lex Luthor?? The 1st ep of S03 has to be real big otherwise it will ruin this finally for me.

wine_buyer
January 16th, 2010, 03:27 PM
Just saw it, loved it. Damn, the wait is gonna kill me. But still new the Sancctuary villain is Lex Luthor?? The 1st ep of S03 has to be real big otherwise it will ruin this finally for me.


I'm willing to bet, especially since they have a 20 ep order for S3, that S3 will probably have at least a two parter to reconcile what happened in this finale.

20 eps gives them the luxury of taking more time to tell/resolve a particular story arc if they choose to.

majorsal
January 16th, 2010, 03:33 PM
there's a lot to take in with this two hour finale. i'm a bit overloaded on where to start. :p

i loved the atmosphere of the ep(s)!

it felt kind of like a movie.

the weasel sanctuary head (doctor beckett actor) needs to be fired and punched, in whatever order! :p

i was kind of uncomfortable with the wil dancing segment, but i liked how he saw ppl with him, which made it look neater. :p

it didn't surprise me that weasel sanct head tried to get helen fired. :mckay:

if the other sanctuary heads give helen more trouble, she can say, "i'm MOM, do as i say, not as i do!! now shut up and go to your rooms!" :D

kate better not end up (or have a fling) with the mumbi sanctuary head! she can do better, like wil or henry. :p


i know more things will come to mind, after i read other's reviews. i really enjoyed this ep :D, and i can't wait to see how the cliffhanger turns out!! :D

Tesla_Twin
January 16th, 2010, 03:41 PM
OK, so just saw the finale and I had to get that out of my system or I'm gonna explode:

HOLY CRAP!!! WTF?!! :eek: And they expect us to wait 9 months? Are they trying to kill us? Slowy and painfully? Or just trying to drive us mad? Psycho? Bonzo? :eek:

Totally want to punch "FishFace" (what's his name, Terren-someting) for his attitude towards Helen! :mad: This guy has to learn respect...bast***
Can't stand him (hope he'll die....)

About the *villain*...not so bad! His accent was funny :P
But he was interesting and slightly crazy...nicely played too I thought...

Bertha totally gave me the creeps...couldn't look at her (I'm really, really afraid of spiders...)

I like how Helen just followed her instincts and decided not to kill her despite what she told the others :) :D

Yeah, so awesome eppy...

get the straight jacket 'cause I'm not gonna be able to wait for 9 months...no way...I'm losing it already :P :lol:

ps: Will "dancing"...wtf :eek: it was hilarious :lol:

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 03:41 PM
I'm willing to bet, especially since they have a 20 ep order for S3, that S3 will probably have at least a two parter to reconcile what happened in this finale.

20 eps gives them the luxury of taking more time to tell/resolve a particular story arc if they choose to.

20 eps huh? thats exciting! i really hope that there is a two parter for the start of season three, which i think there will be since so much happened in this episode that does need to be resolved that if they tried to do it in one episode it wouldnt work out right.


there's a lot to take in with this two hour finale. i'm a bit overloaded on where to start. :p

i loved the atmosphere of the ep(s)!

it felt kind of like a movie.

the weasel sanctuary head (doctor beckett actor) needs to be fired and punched, in whatever order! :p

i was kind of uncomfortable with the wil dancing segment, but i liked how he saw ppl with him, which made it look neater. :p

it didn't surprise me that weasel sanct head tried to get helen fired. :mckay:

if the other sanctuary heads give helen more trouble, she can say, "i'm MOM, do as i say, not as i do!! now shut up and go to your rooms!" :D

kate better not end up (or have a fling) with the mumbi sanctuary head! she can do better, like wil or henry. :p


i know more things will come to mind, after i read other's reviews. i really enjoyed this ep :D, and i can't wait to see how the cliffhanger turns out!! :D

The atmosphere was fantastic and very movie-like.
The "weasel head of sanctuary" was Wexford just fyi but i think weasel is much more fitting name considering what he did :)
I agree that kate should not have a fling with mumbi guy, will or henery would be a much better choice indeed :D

Tesla_Twin OMG i knowww!! 9 months = longest 9 months of my liife! :D

Skydiver
January 16th, 2010, 03:46 PM
I'm not sure about the wave. there are two different kinds of tsunami's, the one in 2004 was from an underground quake and yes, the wave didn't get 'big' until it ran out of water and hit the land

but then you have waves like those created when iceburgs break off, and i don't think ti's invisible 'low amplitude' waves. If they were then boats getting swamped wouldn't be as much of an issue.

what Kali did was more of a surface disturbance and a blast wave

as to the old woman, i've wondered if she's the personification of Kali in some way...or she'll end up being the next host of the makesh

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 03:47 PM
I am also getting bored with Helen not being able to trust her own people. If it descends into being a show about the politics of Sanctuary then it will get boring pretty fast, at least for me. Other than that I enjoyed the episodes. I am 100% pro Kate now too. I think she proved her loyalty to Helen (something even the other Sanctuary heads can't seem to manage :mckay:) and there was a real warmth to her character in this 2 parter.

I can't stand the recent emphasis on the Network politics. Sometimes I think the Heads of the other Sanctuaries forget why they do what they do, unfortunately, and it's that kind of thing that leads to people like Wexford doing stupid things.

I agree about Kate; I think she's grown into the person she was intended to become, someone truly loyal to Magnus and the Old City Sanctuary. Which is great - I always liked her (I have a soft spot for secret-heart-of-gold types), so it's nice to see that change.

wine_buyer
January 16th, 2010, 03:53 PM
there's a lot to take in with this two hour finale. i'm a bit overloaded on where to start. :p

i loved the atmosphere of the ep(s)!

it felt kind of like a movie.

the weasel sanctuary head (doctor beckett actor) needs to be fired and punched, in whatever order! :p

i was kind of uncomfortable with the wil dancing segment, but i liked how he saw ppl with him, which made it look neater. :p

it didn't surprise me that weasel sanct head tried to get helen fired. :mckay:

if the other sanctuary heads give helen more trouble, she can say, "i'm MOM, do as i say, not as i do!! now shut up and go to your rooms!" :D

kate better not end up (or have a fling) with the mumbi sanctuary head! she can do better, like wil or henry. :p


i know more things will come to mind, after i read other's reviews. i really enjoyed this ep :D, and i can't wait to see how the cliffhanger turns out!! :D

Sally I love your posts. You always crack me up. :lol:
oh, and the weasel needs to be punched then fired. Pain first. :D

wine_buyer
January 16th, 2010, 03:54 PM
I'm not sure about the wave. there are two different kinds of tsunami's, the one in 2004 was from an underground quake and yes, the wave didn't get 'big' until it ran out of water and hit the land

but then you have waves like those created when iceburgs break off, and i don't think ti's invisible 'low amplitude' waves. If they were then boats getting swamped wouldn't be as much of an issue.

what Kali did was more of a surface disturbance and a blast wave

as to the old woman, i've wondered if she's the personification of Kali in some way...or she'll end up being the next host of the makesh

I thought the young boy said he had been in training for years to become the next host? :S

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 03:55 PM
I can't stand the recent emphasis on the Network politics. Sometimes I think the Heads of the other Sanctuaries forget why they do what they do, unfortunately, and it's that kind of thing that leads to people like Wexford doing stupid things.

I also can't stand the emphasis on the Network politics of late and agree with your point about the other heads of houses. however, as i stated earlier, i am not sure that i completely buy the fact all the other heads of houses are with Wexford in his cou' of Helen especially since earlier she seemed to be pretty chill with the other heads of houses we met, particularly declan, ravi, and the woman from egypt.

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 03:56 PM
No, I think Wexford is the only one.

EvenstarSRV
January 16th, 2010, 04:00 PM
I got the impression that Wexford started showing his true colors only after he was promoted to Head of House. And since he hadn't technically broken any rules, she had no excuse to get rid of him.

I'm curious whether this type of 'coup' has happened before? My gut tells me no, for one major reason: James Watson. Prior to last year, Magnus had a Head of House in London who was completely loyal to her, had just about as much prestige as her, and was most likely the understood second-in-command of the Network. Anyone who wanted to overthrow Magnus would also have had to overthrow Watson, and it's rather difficult to win a game of strategy against Sherlock Holmes.

Now, Watson is gone and Magnus no longer has her safety net. The other Heads of House smell blood in the water and, with a number of new Heads of House being appointed after the Cabal attacks (Declan in London, the new guy in Tokyo, etc.), the traditional balance of power is screwed up to the point that any weakness on Magnus's part was seen as an invitation for an overthrow.


That makes a lot of sense, Helen probably used to be able to rely on Watson to handle the issues of the other heads and now she doesn't have that support. Add to that her dealing with losing Ashley and potentially Druitt and Tesla, and she's probably been distracted and hasn't been able to keep control of the network as well as before.

Overall I've enjoyed the bits of Sanctuary politics stuff from this season in Veritas and Kali, but like the Cabal from S1 I hope it's something they deal with in early S3 and not stretch out for the rest of that season.


i think wexford is using his knowledge to try something. he's looking for something, he's trying to prove a theory...something.
and he's using his power to prove it. like you said, he's broadly interpreting his orders to take as much power as possible.

I don't think the other heads of house know what he's doing

Yeah, I doubt Declan and Ravi would vote against Helen, and the Cairo head didn't seem to like Wexford, so it seems more like Wexford is staging this coup on his own. And since the webisode Wexford was a collector of ancient texts, maybe he's the one who gave Forsythe his info and then made sure to distract and slow down Helen from stopping Big Bertha.


i don't think it's out of the question for will to have to dance to get kali's attention. in many religions, dances are offered as prayers, and perhaps that's what his dance was. many deities (including kali) are depicted dancing. the various poses of the hands, mudras, are important and according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra) stimulate the same regions of the brain as language. so in theory hand gestures could be used for communication. i don't know about the physiological effects of the placement of the feet, but as a long-ago student of bharata natyam (http://greetingindia.tripod.com/dance.html#bharatnatyam), i can attest to the great emphasis that is placed on correct positioning and movement (of the whole body, not just feet and hands). yes, the presentation in this ep was informal bollywood style, but that in itself is a reference to the ancient traditions that came before it.

This is why I rather enjoyed the dancing stuff, though I understand that it's not everyone's cup of chai. Most Indian dances are done to show respect or devotion to a god or goddess, so Will dancing to get Kali's attention makes sense to me in that respect. It's a bit more on the magical side of things, but still fits with the pseudo-science we've seen in the Sanctuary universe for me.



Edit: I was just disappointed that they didn't even mention Kate's mother. :(
But I keep hopes that she's actually Bibi. :D

Yeah, I was hoping for a small mention as well, though the episode was busy enough and I really enjoyed Kate's interactions with Ravi. 'You thought I was just the token Indian.' Hee. :)

majorsal
January 16th, 2010, 04:00 PM
I One of my favorite scenes was when Helen seem overwhelm and Kate gave her a pep talk, that scene said a lot about Kate. She has change a lot, from a con artist who only care about herself to a responsible woman ready to do her part and step up to the plate when needed. Overall I like the story and the plot twist and I look forward to the next season.

i liked that part too, and kate. i really 'like' her. :)

wine_buyer
January 16th, 2010, 04:03 PM
I also can't stand the emphasis on the Network politics of late and agree with your point about the other heads of houses. however, as i stated earlier, i am not sure that i completely buy the fact all the other heads of houses are with Wexford in his cou' of Helen especially since earlier she seemed to be pretty chill with the other heads of houses we met, particularly declan, ravi, and the woman from egypt.


No, I think Wexford is the only one.

Good point ( I must have missed your earlier post :o). He either has something up his sleeve or it was pretty poor writing. Me thinks he is a wolf in sheeps fish? clothing. :D

Jeffer
January 16th, 2010, 04:04 PM
gotta say awesome ep really really liked it i hated Wexford but i think that was kinda the idea i can't wait for the next season Will's dancing was awesome and i am sure that he enjoyed it if you have watched the behind the scenes and seen he personality

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Good point ( I must have missed your earlier post :o). He either has something up his sleeve or it was pretty poor writing. Me thinks he is a wolf in sheeps fish? clothing. :D

haha i think he's always been a wolf in fish clothing. to me looking at this episode and the webisodes that wexford was i feel like the character changed, so to me its now a question of has he been planning this all along, or only ever since he became head of a sanctuary? either way, i think we have yet to see what his true end-game is. which is a rather bleak thought haha :)

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 06:28 PM
Wexford may be alone in whatever it is he's thinking (planning?) - but that still makes him dangerous. Possibly even more so than if the others supported him.

majorsal
January 16th, 2010, 06:31 PM
i have to say, it took a lot of guts for robin to do that dance! :p but i felt he acted it perfectly, with a large dose of crazy and a side order of desperate. :p

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 06:34 PM
i have to say, it took a lot of guts for robin to do that dance! :p but i felt he acted it perfectly, with a large dose of crazy and a side order of desperate. :p

hahaha :indeed:


Wexford may be alone in whatever it is he's thinking (planning?) - but that still makes him dangerous. Possibly even more so than if the others supported him.

i dont know that that is necessarily true. its possible that he could be equally or more dangerious if he had allies. either way he is definately a threat.

shanna1
January 16th, 2010, 06:41 PM
Well...a man without allies would probably be more willing to act out of desperation - which to me generally equals dangerous.

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 06:50 PM
hmm. good point! :D

MasySyma
January 16th, 2010, 07:48 PM
I found this episode to be rather meh.

After the fabulous Tesla and Druitt episodes, this one was ok but not nearly as powerful or fun.

I'm glad it aired as a two hour episode: the first half was rather slow. The development was needed, and I enjoyed seeing Kate used well, but the pace was just off a bit.

The Good/Ok:

The use of another sancutary/country. It was nice to see somewhere other than New City and the British sanctuary.

Kate. I like her anyway, and frankly, I want her to stay. I agree. I want more information about her mother. I did find it a bit odd for her to receive this level of character development in a season finale, which seems a bit late, but overall, she was used well. I'm not thrilled with her instant developing romance with the other sancuary head, but I can deal with it. I like the idea of her and Henry or her and the Big Guy.

The Meh.

The visions got old. They ran on too long for me. I didn't need to hear "Kali!" seven times to know that Will was desparate to find her.

The ending. We know the show has been renewed, and presumably, the actor will be returning, so the cliff hanger isn't that much of a cliff hanger. Part of what made Ashley's death shocking is that we didn't see it coming and that it wasn't in a predictable spot with regard to ratings. Shall Will be ok? Almost certainly yes. Will and Helen are the two characters who shouldn't be threatened in finales because they have the best chances of automatically returning if the show is on the air. Threaten Henry, Kate, or someone who might not return. Of course I want the show back, but make me concerned that my favorite people might not survive. Will shall be fine, somehow. We know that.

The Bad:

I hated the NID in Stargate, and I'm not thrilled at the sudden inter-sanctuary political infighting that has randomly appeared during Season 2. I can't decide if I'm annoyed at the weird fish guy's attitude or Helen's constant I-trust-my-staff-but-I-won't-tell-anyone-anything,-even-when-the-fate-of-the-world-dependes-on-it attitude. At the end of Season 1, Watson implied that she wasn't using him as a confidant, so Helen is keeping too much to herself. I can see why she let Big Bertha live, but her "I'm mom" thing doesn't work if she has adults capable of making decisions around her. She has 13? sanctuary heads who have a right to know what decisions she makes on behalf of the world, and no one person should have that much power with other people who can respond.


Overall, I give it a 7/10 because I realize that my preference for the previous two episodes clouds my judgement. Otherwise, I would give it a 6. This episode might have been ok mid-season, but it just didn't feel like a season finale.

I liked most of Season 2. I just hope Season 3 finds a bit more balance. After this season, I find myself neutral with regards to Helen and beyond bored with Will. I watch for Tesla, Druitt, Henry, Kate, and the Big Guy. I also hope the show finds a way to give everyone some time without resorting to inner-sanctuary conspiracies. Druitt and Tesla were what drew me to the show, and episodes like the Season 2 finale have been done by so many other shows in the same ways (ok, minus the dance number), that they can't interest me if we get 20 more of them.

Mekarri
January 16th, 2010, 08:09 PM
I thought Helen founded the Sanctuary and if so why is she taking orders from any of these shrubs. This is suppose to be sci fi can we just pretend that Helen is the top dog? I don't like having Helen answer to someone else. It takes away from her being powerful.

Keaira Taegan
January 16th, 2010, 08:12 PM
I thought Helen founded the Sanctuary and if so why is she taking orders from any of these shrubs. This is suppose to be sci fi can we just pretend that Helen is the top dog? I don't like having Helen answer to someone else. It takes away from her being powerful.

Ok i could be wrong on this but i think her father started it back in the day and she just expaned upon his work to form the network. but i agree with you, if she created it why the heck does she have to listen to her underlings like Wexford, let alone how can she get cou'd like that?! I dont think that worked at all.

Chelle DB
January 16th, 2010, 09:53 PM
Well I wasn't disappointed with the Bollywood number...I loved it. I dunno but seeing RD dance was kinda cool! :D
Wasn't impressed with Forsythe...boring. Wexford really disappointed me...I much prefer the Wexford from the webisoes. I really hate how the other heads of the Sanctuary network seem to be always going against Helen. I hope it bites them all in the ass next season...especially Wexford's ass!
Loved the ELRAD...such a cool doohickey!
Kate/Agam was brilliant. I really loved her in this ep...she's certainly nestled into my heart now...she's a great character.
I actually had a hard time watching the spider...I knew something was gonna happen so I turned the volume down and watched through the cracks of mu\y fingers...too creepy...cool but creepy! Spiders are not my friend...brilliant effect though.
As much as I hate cliffhangers, I'm not overly stressed about having to wait til October-ish to see the conclusiion.
I think the worst part about this ep is the Sanctuary heads once again mistrusting Helen. As far as I'm concerned they'd be a lot worse off if it wasn't for her and she more than deserves the benefit of the doubt and a whole lot more faith than what she gets from those who are supposed to support her.
Best part...gotta be the dance scene...I was laughing and totally enjoying it! And watching Kate...she really was awesome in this ep.
Brilliant finale...hope the conclusion doesn't tiss me off...still not happy about Ashley. :(

helenmagnus23
January 16th, 2010, 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by Mekarri
I thought Helen founded the Sanctuary and if so why is she taking orders from any of these shrubs. This is suppose to be sci fi can we just pretend that Helen is the top dog? I don't like having Helen answer to someone else. It takes away from her being powerful.


Originally posted by Keaira Taegan
Ok i could be wrong on this but i think her father started it back in the day and she just expaned upon his work to form the network. but i agree with you, if she created it why the heck does she have to listen to her underlings like Wexford, let alone how can she get cou'd like that?! I dont think that worked at all.

I so agree with you boath :)

Helen's father did start the Sanctuary but in his abcence she kept it going made it better and i dont like how the people she chose are voting against her it's so wrong and i think Wexford is forgetting if Helen found him helped him gave him the position he has today given what he is if it wasnt for her he'd probably still be hiding in a cave somewhere , i totaly want to see Helen fight this and get control back and i'm pritty sure if John hears about it heads will role lol :) just like the cabal :)

I loved seeing Kali when i saw the end i was like that is one hell of a spider dont want get it angrey and the tsunami OMG ! .

I felt Helen keeping big bertha alive was a good thing know matter how strong an abnormal is she show's them they can still have a place in the world it reminded me of X-men
(Xsavier kept Gene and she was a class five mutant the strongest ever created but he found away to minimize her ability so she could control it better and have a life be normal )
I can see Magnus doing a simmiler thing with Big Bertha an abnormal so powerfull but treated with recpect can live and not harm anyone unless you get it angrey like what Wexford did .

Awsome eps i cant wait to see what happens in season 3 :)

LunaSolTierra
January 16th, 2010, 11:26 PM
I was a bit disappointed that they didn't mention anything about Kate's mother but things were moving fast and they were busy. Still I'm hoping that they mention her on the season 3, maybe Kate can visit her next season.

Celandine
January 16th, 2010, 11:34 PM
This finale was amazing on so many levels. I just finished watching it and must digest it a bit before I can say much. All of it will be praise though. This was the best episode by far and a fitting ending to S2.

Snatches that I can utter...

Kate rocked in this ep. Her role in reassuring Magnus about her decision with Bertha had me cheering out loud. I'm totally loving how Kate has lined herself up with the thinking of the Sanctuary. She truly is one of the team.

Bertha...rocked. Huge. Ginormous. Spider. :D

Loved the different locations used. Was glad to see Tokyo, England and India as they seem more real and part of the network now.

Loved the science with the seismic activity, land forms, geography, etc... I couldn't get enough of it and was mesmerized throughout for this reason as well.

The myth of the Kali cult was interesting and I'd love to see it explored more in S3.

I'm going to do another re-watch later today as there was so much to take in with this episode. I hope to return with a bit more coherent thought too. :P

charles582
January 16th, 2010, 11:47 PM
Is it possible that alot of the bad stuff that happened in the episode was just a premonition? I think people who get the spider are suppose to be able to forsee disasters. Isn't possible that the spider is still in will and will is still asleep?

Inquisitor
January 17th, 2010, 12:19 AM
I thought Helen founded the Sanctuary and if so why is she taking orders from any of these shrubs. This is suppose to be sci fi can we just pretend that Helen is the top dog? I don't like having Helen answer to someone else. It takes away from her being powerful.

Sure, she founded it, but I don't think Helen Magnus would see her self above anyone else (even though at many times it is the case :)). It's one of the many parts of her character that I like.

slurredspeech
January 17th, 2010, 03:58 AM
Is it possible that alot of the bad stuff that happened in the episode was just a premonition? I think people who get the spider are suppose to be able to forsee disasters. Isn't possible that the spider is still in will and will is still asleep?

Gah, I hope they don't do that. I hate cop-outs like that.

Oh, and I freaking loved the ep(s). I think I'll need to watch it again (and again,...;)) to give a proper insight, but two things that kind of surprised me were a) I too actually liked Kate a lot in this one (though I'm still of the opinion the actress could do with toning down her performance a bit), and b) I thought Will's dance was well done, and RD did a great job portraying the verging-on-being-maniacal desperation. I was worried it would be there for the sake of it, but it didn't feel that way to me at all.

Can't wait to see how they'll get themselves out of this one. :D Fall can't come too soon.

Laura Dove
January 17th, 2010, 04:16 AM
Is it possible that alot of the bad stuff that happened in the episode was just a premonition? I think people who get the spider are suppose to be able to forsee disasters. Isn't possible that the spider is still in will and will is still asleep?

It would be too much like "Pavor Nocturnus" for my taste, I'm afraid. As I understand it, heralds of Kali are not actually capable of seeing the future: They simply sense when Big Bertha is angry and going to create a major catastrophe.


Ok i could be wrong on this but i think her father started it back in the day and she just expaned upon his work to form the network. but i agree with you, if she created it why the heck does she have to listen to her underlings like Wexford, let alone how can she get cou'd like that?! I dont think that worked at all.

Actually, I was more disturbed with Helen's poor judgement when letting Wexford in command of the ship. It was so obvious he would break her orders and do something stupid! I almost thought she was testing him in order to publicly prove he wasn't trustworthy. But I can't imagine Helen willingly letting Wexford anger Big Bertha, so it didn't make much sense IMO.

sandra-carter
January 17th, 2010, 06:39 AM
I was a little, just a little disappointed by the episode, thought it would be more dramatic, with more action and not everything was based on the vision of the Will, and despite finishing a huge cliffhanger that I could have called it my attention, of course I'm anxious to see next season but is not due to the end because we know that they get away with it , but I'm always waiting around due to Ashley .. I read somewhere, Amanda Tapping said they were working on a story to bring it back up to the series.

but I liked:

* More of kate, I think now she began to take place in the show, she is concerned, kind and not that girl who wants it all, she demonstrated much better in this epi

* Huge spider, Big Bertha, it is a maximum, only Helen to protect an animal like that.

* Will, poor boy who always carries with it all over...

* Kali .. an interesting story, I did not care to see developed in the next episode

what I liked least:

* Not to mention Druitt, I wanted to see the reaction of helen

* that ******* who wants to take her place as head of the network of sanctuaries

* I think there was much green screen, until the water was fake, I think there was no need for outside it was very promising

over! now only in October, is the life we have to wait, but I'm expecting huge massive wave will destroy that fool , with certainty he'll die, and I think very well... boys and girls until october :(

RDAfan61
January 17th, 2010, 08:05 AM
I too Said "Myfawny!" when I saw the tyeradactyl. :D

I also am getting tired of the power struggle stuff. Lets get back to shows where they are just trying to help abnormals. Struggles against competitors are fine, this inner struggle stuff is wearing thin.

I still think Terrance is working more by himself than with others, otherwise why would he have cut off all radio communication.

I found the dance uncomfortable. While RD did a nice job with it, I am too one of those who finds characters out of character uncomfortable. When they first mentioned the dance i thought Oh no. It was executed well but I felt bad for the character the whole time the way the people were gawking at him.

So we wait until October, huh. Going to be a long wait to see where they go with this. Looking forward to it.

mercy moon
January 17th, 2010, 08:45 AM
Um, having thought about the episode properly, i think i would've have preferred the bollywood dance sequence to have been missed out - it did have a bit of a cringe factor!! anyway, i'm beginning to see a theme developing in the sense a lot of things seem to require RD to strip off - not that i'm complaining, i just prefer CH!!

wexford was horrible (a very different role for the lovely PMc) and i'm really not sure why helen put him in a position of power in the first place! however i must say, i really liked the look of the japanese boss - he was very cool!

also as someone said, considering helen's most recent 'loss' it would have been nice if she'd at least mentioned john - if only as an 'excuse' for her handling of bertha. (macra? is that another dr who nod?)

overall, i agree with RDAfan61 - i would like the power struggle/cabal/all knowing villain thing to be left alone for a while - i much prefer contained stories regarding the abnormals on a individual basis and the relationships between the regulars/team serving as the series 'arc' ...

of course, i can hardly wait for season 3 - lets hope it see's druitt and tesla rushing to helen's 'rescue'!

kes
January 17th, 2010, 09:10 AM
I'm willing to bet, especially since they have a 20 ep order for S3, that S3 will probably have at least a two parter to reconcile what happened in this finale.

20 eps gives them the luxury of taking more time to tell/resolve a particular story arc if they choose to.

Oh I bet. They did 3 eps this season to close the Cabal/Ash story.
When I say big I mean story wise. There has to be more to it then land.. its just to weak. There are easier ways to make land now.
Plus I want something original. Like I said I loved the eps but it wasnt new, you know?
I think the villain was a bit weak. The whole Sanctuary take over was better. But I also dont see Magnus being thrown out of something she built. They need to do it a little different then we voted and decided your out :S
Also I would've liked to see the abnormals going crazy. Just a clip of a Dino Bird near the Big Ben wasnt enough.

Replicator Todd
January 17th, 2010, 09:22 AM
I love the fact everyone seems to hate Wexford so much! :P Sounds to me like a great villain in the future!

Laura Dove
January 17th, 2010, 09:55 AM
When I say big I mean story wise. There has to be more to it then land.. its just to weak. There are easier ways to make land now.

As I've said in a previous message, I suspect the bad guy is trying to move continents around to recreate the Pangea, probably in order to recreate early Earth conditions. It looks somehow related to his theory that all abnormals have a common ancestor.

SamJackShipLover
January 17th, 2010, 10:20 AM
Mmm ... entertaining finale. It didn't blow me away, I think it felt too stand-alone-ish to me to do that (I miss the five!). I'm like Chelle not too worried to wait for S3, I'm sure all will be well with Will.

Watching the dancescene wasn't too bad, I was more like WHY would Kali respond to dancing?? Now having read some of the explanations here, it makes more sense, but at first I just thought it was silly and put in there, just to make RD dance.

Thought the Kali / Big Bertha connection was well done, with the Makri thrown in there. Interesting.

Still don't care for Kate. I don't mind her at all, but don't care for her either. Not sure why. I do miss Ashley and the mother / daughter angle that was there.

Dislike Wexford (?) with a passion, but I guess that was the point.

Really liked Ravi! It was really nice to see the foreign Sanctuaries.

Loved the slums, very nice set. All the people in it, nicely done.

Am really curious to see where they will take the show for its 20 episodes third season.

mjwalshe
January 17th, 2010, 10:27 AM
... is the pterodactyl on the loose in london a little nod to torchwwod's myfanwy - after all she must have escaped the hub when it blew up!!

btw, i'm really, really warming to kate now!

heh for a real TW Homarge they need to do a running in slowmo in long coats sceen in S3 - Helen would rock a long leather duster.

DigiFluid
January 17th, 2010, 11:40 AM
Since this is the Part 2 thread I'll just use it to comment on the entire thing....

Oh my god, that was just bloody awful. All of a sudden there's an cult with no background origins, for some reason a genetic relative of Big Bertha allows humans to completely take control of her (a supposedly sentient creature), and apparently going to Mumbai is license to give Will a cringe-inducingly bad Bollywood dance sequence. Oh, and Kate has to 'learn how to be Indian' and has her first real flirt--an Indian guy. How hopelessly stereotypical. The whole thing was ludicrous, the splitscreen was smegging awful, and the writing was just unforgivably bad.


Apologies to AT, CH, and RR (and to a lesser extent RD)--your acting has been great. But the writing in season 2 has hit rock bottom. Unless I hear that season 3 has become the best thing since sliced bread, this is where I step off. I'm done with Sanctuary.

jckfan55
January 17th, 2010, 01:01 PM
.except I am getting a bit bored with Helen being challenged by her own people...this whole overthrow of power...the take over of Helen's duties is getting old and silly. I mean really, who can this woman trust? There needs to be a big shake up with who's running these Sanctuaries and time to weed out the deceivers and keep the loyal ones closer.
Yes, I think a major shakeup has to come. I think we might be able to count on Declan, the Cairo leader & the India leader. Maybe the network's even gotten too big. Maybe a few centers need to be consolidated. But what do you do with a "fired" Sanctuary staff? They know too much.

This has really been a "kick Helen in the teeth" season. (((Helen)))

mercy moon
January 17th, 2010, 02:55 PM
heh for a real TW Homarge they need to do a running in slowmo in long coats sceen in S3 - Helen would rock a long leather duster.

... and the big guy throwing the teapot out in favor of coffee!:eek:

badwolfSG
January 17th, 2010, 03:04 PM
I want to point out I hate chilfinger endings!

I expected something diffferent then what was given to me, actually I expected something dark this season had been very dark I expected it to end on the same note, it didn't. Not saying I was displeased with this episode I really liked when Will dance! And the 15 minutes were awesome.

jds1982
January 17th, 2010, 05:37 PM
Quick thing about the very end...that growing tsunami? Yeah, I don't think they did much research. IIRC from my oceanography class, such waves have a small amplitude and a long wavelength - basically unnoticeable until they get close to shore, when the water is pulled back from the beach.

Most tsunamis aren't created by giant spiders either (as far as I know).

Also, IMO Kali in the tub equals sexiest Sanctuary moment ever.

angelfire east
January 17th, 2010, 06:45 PM
I think Forsythe sees himself as a kind of "God". To me he didn't want to rule the world or anything because he kept mentioning "The end of days". To me, he wants to wipe out everyone or mostly everyone. Why, that I am not totally sure, maybe because of all the war and violence going on these days, who knows.

I agree I think he sees himself as an God. I think he is goal is to end the world as we know it and creature a new one of his making. Henry mentioned something about Forsythe believing that all abnormals came from one super continent. He's building a new super continent and destroying the old ones. He would become a God of this new world he's creating. I won't doubt he has abnormals already to picked and in those boats Henry said he owned that in the area.

Skydiver
January 17th, 2010, 06:51 PM
i can see that. and even if he didn't want to kill everyone else off, he didn't care if htey died. what mattered was whatever goal he was going for with his new pangea

terrance is going for power. terrance, i think we'll see in kali 3, has some ancient text or ancient power that he wanted to summon, and he used forsyth to do it, while forsyth used terrance to get his way

what i think will eventually be revealed is that helen was right, that they can't just randomly and outright kill abbys. that the abnormal 'life web' is intricate and necessary for the earth. That they can use abbys to fix things, even if it's just the damage of other abbys.

think x-men, just - hopefully - without the spandex and dwama. :)

How could they have even killed bertha? if she's necessary for earth's balance, then her death could do more harm than good

maybe that's what'll be revealed in part 3, that the death of another like her caused something bad to happen, thus proving helen's theory that they should only kill when they have to, and the more powerful the abby, the more of a ripple effect their death has on the world

Chelle DB
January 18th, 2010, 01:49 AM
How could they have even killed bertha? if she's necessary for earth's balance, then her death could do more harm than good
That's exactly what Helen said and believes...so why do the rest of the Sanctuary heads refuse to listen to her? I think that peeves me more than Forsythe's want for power and Wexford being an obnoxious ass...the fact that after everything Helen has done and has seen and lived through, her heads of staff don't have faith in her to do the job. Or is this only what Wexford wants us to believe? Maybe the rest of the heads aren't so unfaithful as he would like everyone to think.

helenmagnus23
January 18th, 2010, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by Chelle DB
That's exactly what Helen said and believes...so why do the rest of the Sanctuary heads refuse to listen to her? I think that peeves me more than Forsythe's want for power and Wexford being an obnoxious ass...the fact that after everything Helen has done and has seen and lived through, her heads of staff don't have faith in her to do the job. Or is this only what Wexford wants us to believe? Maybe the rest of the heads aren't so unfaithful as he would like everyone to think.

I hope it only what Wexford belives becase if he has the other Sanctuary leaders eating out his hand well that is not cool Helen's run the Sanctuaries longer than he's been alive probably and like you said Chelle Helen has lived through more and seen more than he ever has .

kes
January 18th, 2010, 02:33 AM
As I've said in a previous message, I suspect the bad guy is trying to move continents around to recreate the Pangea, probably in order to recreate early Earth conditions. It looks somehow related to his theory that all abnormals have a common ancestor.

I hope so.
I hope they explore his reasons a bit further. A comment by Henry just inst enough.

Skydiver
January 18th, 2010, 05:42 AM
ravvi didn't seem to know anything about it and he's a head of house, so i'm thinking wexford is out on a limb

what i think the other heads of household are feeling is fear. they're afraid of these abbys, and the common reaction to fear is 'kill it'

what i'm thinking is, somewhere in wexford's ancient papers (presuming that character bit survives from the webby to the show) is another instance when the 'monster' was killed and it caused a cataclysm.

i think the premiere will show that wexford and forsythe were both operating from the same faulty translation and that these monsters are necessary for the planet to survive.

that the web of life is so intricate and delicate that you can't just cut part of it out without damaging/weakening another part

shanna1
January 18th, 2010, 09:42 AM
Most tsunamis aren't created by giant spiders either (as far as I know).

I am not arguing the unrealistic cause of the wave. I am merely pointing out the unrealistic nature of it. (My favorite branch of geoscience is oceanography, so things like this tend to bother me).

RiaDejaVu
January 18th, 2010, 09:49 AM
Oh my........... I'm speechless............

That was bloody awful............. the dance........ the plot............ so contrived and just bad overall. Big deal on the cliffhanger............. I dunno. Sanctuary has totally lost it. I just crave better sci-fi - and this is not it anymore!!!!!

There is always Tesla though - hope they don't screw that character up!!!

I just have to be content with the webisodes and S1 - those are GREAT!

Celandine
January 18th, 2010, 11:37 AM
How could they have even killed bertha? if she's necessary for earth's balance, then her death could do more harm than good

maybe that's what'll be revealed in part 3, that the death of another like her caused something bad to happen, thus proving helen's theory that they should only kill when they have to, and the more powerful the abby, the more of a ripple effect their death has on the world


That's exactly what Helen said and believes...so why do the rest of the Sanctuary heads refuse to listen to her? I think that peeves me more than Forsythe's want for power and Wexford being an obnoxious ass...the fact that after everything Helen has done and has seen and lived through, her heads of staff don't have faith in her to do the job. Or is this only what Wexford wants us to believe? Maybe the rest of the heads aren't so unfaithful as he would like everyone to think.

Isnt this similar to 'The Butterfly Effect' ? Chaos is a widely held belief in physics, math and even philosophy if I'm not mistaken. One tiny variation can effect giant (complex) systems such as the weather. I think this is the idea TPTB were trying to incorporate in the story line with Big Bertha and the Maki.

For Helen to completely embrace this scientific field of study whilst the rest of the Sanctuary heads fail to see or understand, makes completely no sense to me at all.

Skydiver
January 18th, 2010, 11:52 AM
it does if you think that they're afraid of bertha. afraid of what she might do or might be used to do if control fell itno the wrong hands.

They seem to ascribe to the idea 'if it's dead then it's no threat'

thing is, yeah the butterfly effect. the planet is like a giant game of jenga, and you never know what block you remove that'll end all life on the planet or cause something else to go extinct.

Helen has learned this. In her lifetime she's witnessed the extinction of hte dodo (hasn't she?), the cost of introducing alien species (like those jumping carps that threaten the great lakes), the extinction of one species by introducing something else that seems harmless (the tree frogs in hawaii that have taken over part of the island and chirp all night) but that forever alters the landscape and fauna.

now, why her other heads of household don't see this, we dont' know.

i do think some are afraid. some are also aware of groups like the cabal that would use these abbys and fear how they could be used and abused and would rather deal with the maybe of a butterfly effect than the surity of it being abused

Celandine
January 18th, 2010, 02:10 PM
But for supposed intellectuals who deal in science and facts, you'd think the butterfly effect would be more of a factor in their decision process than mere speculation and the fear that might accompany this.

Which leads me to believe that not all the heads of the Sanctuary are truly aligned, so to speak, with the views of what their main purpose is supposed to be. Protection of abnormals.

Wexford is up to no good and there just might be a few other Sanctuary heads who have believed his lies and have joined with him. The others who still hold Magnus in high regard, might be blackmailed into silence. Not sure. All I know is that this whole story line, controversy...how ever you name it, is getting a bit repetitive. I do hope it's taken care of in S3.

jckfan55
January 18th, 2010, 02:16 PM
I liked the grandmother in this episode.

maylet
January 18th, 2010, 02:30 PM
I just saw the episode (Kali 1 and 2) and OH MY GOD!!!

It was a really good episode, it's good to finally see Big Bertha (I wander who name her? LOL I like Kali most).

I keep thinking how much more will Helen take? poor women this season she lost Ashley, John and now Will is sick because of his conection with Kali and she end up the season by being take from head of the Sanctuary Network. I mean my God this poor women needs some time off and relax after all this.

When Forsythe capture the Makri, I thought it was for something like what he had on mind. He really sees himself as a God.

I really don't like Wexford, and I'm sure it would be Helen saving everything at the end of the day and not him, I really hope when the new season starts he gets off the Sanctuary Network.

Will dance, really funny, it was nice to see him do something like that, LOL

And in the end, for me still is a really good amazing episode.

Keaira Taegan
January 18th, 2010, 03:56 PM
it does if you think that they're afraid of bertha. afraid of what she might do or might be used to do if control fell itno the wrong hands.

They seem to ascribe to the idea 'if it's dead then it's no threat'

thing is, yeah the butterfly effect. the planet is like a giant game of jenga, and you never know what block you remove that'll end all life on the planet or cause something else to go extinct.

Helen has learned this. In her lifetime she's witnessed the extinction of hte dodo (hasn't she?), the cost of introducing alien species (like those jumping carps that threaten the great lakes), the extinction of one species by introducing something else that seems harmless (the tree frogs in hawaii that have taken over part of the island and chirp all night) but that forever alters the landscape and fauna.

now, why her other heads of household don't see this, we dont' know.

i do think some are afraid. some are also aware of groups like the cabal that would use these abbys and fear how they could be used and abused and would rather deal with the maybe of a butterfly effect than the surity of it being abused

You bring up an extremely valid point that i agree with wholeheartedly. and it is what adds to me doubting the idea that all the heads of houses were with Wexford in his little cou'. While yes, Helen maybe shouldn't done the whole "well i'm mom" approach to it and not told anybody, you would think that the other heads, would have some kind of understanding of why she did what she did and respect it not only becasue they are in the same line of work as her, but becuase she has been around for so long and has such a unique and amazing and comprehensive view of the way the world really is that they could never have. I think you were right that its possible they are afraid of what others like the cabal or other organization could do with the power that bertha gives them should they control her and that is why they would wish her to destroy her. but at the time time, are they not devoted to protecting all life forms on this planet? so shouldnt they be concerned with the fact killing bertha may kill thousands and therefore want to keep her alive?

Alder
January 18th, 2010, 04:05 PM
Hmmmm...

Well, I enjoyed it. Loved the India sets, and the warm colours - such a different look from the Sanctuary city and dark tunnels that we've seen a lot of! And for the first time, I really liked Kate - she seemed a proper part of the team instead of a hanger-on, and really stepped up when Will was out of it.

The Bollywood dance number...well, it definitely seemed a bit odd, but worked in the context of the episode, I thought, with Will's touch of desperation.

All the politics...on the one hand, I do enjoy it when the writers 'thicken up' the background/mythology, but there does seem to have been quite a bit of it this season, and an awful lot of mistrust. Magnus seems to have tied her own hands to some extent when drawing up the Sanctuary charter, left herself open to this kind of abuse.
Some folk have mentioned how the death of Watson would have affected this, and I think that's a good point. Perhaps before now she wasn't vulnerable, even with the way the charter was drawn up, but after what has been a pretty awful year for her, all things considered...[death of Watson, death of Ashley, death of Griffon's-granddaughter-whose-name-I've-forgotten, death of J...immy?, traumatic exit of Druitt, traumatic de-vampiring of Tesla - not to mention the physical damage on the Sanctuary network by the Cabal - her lifes' work]...perhaps her head just wasn't in the game, and she over-estimated the loyalty of the other Sanctuary heads.

Also, someone else mentioned in another thread, the Abnormals themselves this season have been much more 'scary monster' and a bit less 'misunderstood creature', and most 'abnormals of the week' have ended up dead. Bertha - however cool she is - seems, at the moment, to be another one. I'd love to see them give us a little less death next season - for everyone, normal and abnormal alike!

I've really enjoyed this season, but I hope with 20 episodes for season 3 they can relax a little, and maybe - on occasion - let things go right. Ish. :D

Oh, and also:
I.
Hate.
Cliffhangers.
Gah.

Edit: And why did the forum change my text into one big narrow column? Looks odd. *shrug*
Edit2: And back again. I think it's probably laughing at me...:P

Skydiver
January 18th, 2010, 04:13 PM
You bring up an extremely valid point that i agree with wholeheartedly. and it is what adds to me doubting the idea that all the heads of houses were with Wexford in his little cou'. While yes, Helen maybe shouldn't done the whole "well i'm mom" approach to it and not told anybody, you would think that the other heads, would have some kind of understanding of why she did what she did and respect it not only becasue they are in the same line of work as her, but becuase she has been around for so long and has such a unique and amazing and comprehensive view of the way the world really is that they could never have. I think you were right that its possible they are afraid of what others like the cabal or other organization could do with the power that bertha gives them should they control her and that is why they would wish her to destroy her. but at the time time, are they not devoted to protecting all life forms on this planet? so shouldnt they be concerned with the fact killing bertha may kill thousands and therefore want to keep her alive?

I guess the thing about helen keeping it a secret...as long as she was the only person on earth that knew that kali was alive then no one would be looking for the creature. helen - for better or worse - decided to keep the creature safe by keeping her life a singular secret.

Keaira Taegan
January 18th, 2010, 04:23 PM
I guess the thing about helen keeping it a secret...as long as she was the only person on earth that knew that kali was alive then no one would be looking for the creature. helen - for better or worse - decided to keep the creature safe by keeping her life a singular secret.

and i completely get that. infact i agree with helen's decision to do it! i think it was the right choice and i'm pretty sure if any other head of house was in her place, and desired to do the right thing, they would have to make the same choice that Helen made. Which IMO, is why its ridiculous to me that all the heads would go with the over throw that Wexford planned.

jckfan55
January 18th, 2010, 04:36 PM
I definitely think the loss of Watson has had an effect on Magnus' hold on the network. I'm wondering if after the "housecleaning" the network will be pared back. It's pretty sprawling and that makes it harder to control.

And I don't think Magnus ever imagined the Sanctuary charter/rules would ever be used against her when she was developing them. There is a bit of arrogance there, just as in all the Five.

Keaira Taegan
January 18th, 2010, 05:02 PM
I definitely think the loss of Watson has had an effect on Magnus' hold on the network. I'm wondering if after the "housecleaning" the network will be pared back. It's pretty sprawling and that makes it harder to control.
And I don't think Magnus ever imagined the Sanctuary charter/rules would ever be used against her when she was developing them. There is a bit of arrogance there, just as in all the Five.

I feel terrible that i never even considered that but your right, Watson was probably the best ally she had in the network and with him now gone :( she may or may not have such a good hold...

arrrghh. i hate political nonsense on shows haha :rolleyes:

Skydiver
January 18th, 2010, 05:55 PM
well, when it was watson and helen, it was a team and they'd talk to each other. and add to that tesla, there was a trio, which was harder to break up, than just one person

now helen has no council, no one that she chats with or seeks the advice of

Keaira Taegan
January 18th, 2010, 06:06 PM
well, when it was watson and helen, it was a team and they'd talk to each other. and add to that tesla, there was a trio, which was harder to break up, than just one person

now helen has no council, no one that she chats with or seeks the advice of
are you thinking that maybe thats why she made the choice she did about bertha/kali? bc to me, that could totally make sense...

Skydiver
January 18th, 2010, 06:39 PM
but wasn't the Kali/Bertha decision made years ago? like years and years?

Keaira Taegan
January 18th, 2010, 06:52 PM
but wasn't the Kali/Bertha decision made years ago? like years and years?

oh thats true i think it was. so maybe she did tell somebody about, watson, and he just never told declan because it was top secret! that also makes sense haha :)

EvenstarSRV
January 18th, 2010, 07:21 PM
I guess the thing about helen keeping it a secret...as long as she was the only person on earth that knew that kali was alive then no one would be looking for the creature. helen - for better or worse - decided to keep the creature safe by keeping her life a singular secret.

Plus, wasn't the Makri a really rare spider and it had been living in that guy for a long time, so Helen probably figured that if she was the only one who knew Big Bertha was still alive and there were no more Makri, then BB would be safe.


but wasn't the Kali/Bertha decision made years ago? like years and years?

I think Ravi says that Helen supposedly killed Big Bertha only 4 years ago, in the scene when she reveals it's still alive.

MelissaAdams
January 18th, 2010, 08:08 PM
I agree with what most of you said which is why I think Wexford likely 'overstated' his authority, perhaps he was authorized to take control of the mission and return Magnus to explain to the other heads her actions before a final decision was made and he just arrogantly assumed that if he 'contained' the situation without her help in the eye of her 'failure' to kill her a second time then it would cement his position to take over for her and that Magnus was no longer capable.

If I'm recalling my timelines right I think Magnus tracked Big Bertha for years and finally found her yes four years ago according to what Ravi said in the scene where she admits she's alive, but she tracked her for a very, very, VERY long time before that as she probably does with a lot of extinction level causing abnormals. That's one of the 'things' I found funny about Wexford, he himself said in the episode that she could destroy half of Europe if she's upset, unless he was 100% positive he could kill her with depth charges you do NOT tick off something you yourself says can destroy continents when she's upset because trying to be killed annoys anyone...abnormal or not in my opinion. (Side note, however from what I saw he must have thought the depth charges as they went off would force her into the rift she'd opened below her on the ocean floor but she was spread out across it and could support her weight enough to start moving away, at least I think.)

Perhaps that's why she brought Will in, to become her closer 'Watson' though younger, I can see her and James having talked about it and such before he was approached. What do you all think?

Skydiver
January 19th, 2010, 03:55 AM
I can see that Wexford isn't necessarily 'evil' but 'drunk on power'

over confident, self sure and (as it'll likely turn out) self-deluded

it's very possible that his failure in killing Bertha is why she's still alive in the first place. helen couldn't figure out how to kill her without angering her, so she 'faked it' because it was the most discreet thing to do

I think it's possible that she brought will in because she needed someone to question her. Someone to see things from a different angle, someone that wasn't afraid to make her justify her decisions. to ask her 'why'

she doesn't need challenges for power - who does - but she does need feedback and a cooperative relationship. someone to bounce ideas off of, someone with a different point of view and someone that'll question

Keaira Taegan
January 19th, 2010, 06:42 AM
I can see that Wexford isn't necessarily 'evil' but 'drunk on power'

over confident, self sure and (as it'll likely turn out) self-deluded

it's very possible that his failure in killing Bertha is why she's still alive in the first place. helen couldn't figure out how to kill her without angering her, so she 'faked it' because it was the most discreet thing to do

I think it's possible that she brought will in because she needed someone to question her. Someone to see things from a different angle, someone that wasn't afraid to make her justify her decisions. to ask her 'why'

she doesn't need challenges for power - who does - but she does need feedback and a cooperative relationship. someone to bounce ideas off of, someone with a different point of view and someone that'll question

I think is a fair assessment of WExford, and i believe that the woman from the cairo sanctuary said something to that effect to Helen when Helen asked her for her opinion on wexford. i also agree with you that helen does need somebody that she can bounce ideas off of, and people that are going to cooperate with her to a certain degree. i think her heads of houses should have these qualities as well but for some reason wexford doesnt seem to the have them...

hisg1fans
January 19th, 2010, 07:03 AM
I think is a fair assessment of WExford, and i believe that the woman from the cairo sanctuary said something to that effect to Helen when Helen asked her for her opinion on wexford. i also agree with you that helen does need somebody that she can bounce ideas off of, and people that are going to cooperate with her to a certain degree. i think her heads of houses should have these qualities as well but for some reason wexford doesnt seem to the have them...

So I wonder why she hired him in the first place? Maybe we'll see that in the first episode or two of S3.

Keaira Taegan
January 19th, 2010, 08:46 AM
So I wonder why she hired him in the first place? Maybe we'll see that in the first episode or two of S3.

well he was on the webisodes and from what i gathered from this episode as well, it was only of late now that Wexford was placed in this postition of power that the started being well, obnoxious. Which makes me think there must have been something that made Helen think he would alright as Head of House. i think somebody in this episode stated something along the lines of the power having gone to wexfords head, which could be true. but it could also be true that he has been planning this for sometime now and the cou' was always a part of his goal. Quite honestly, we just dont have enough information about him to know what his motives are and, atleast in my opinion, this makes him very intriuging as a character, no matter how annoying i find him :)

JenniferJF
January 20th, 2010, 05:51 AM
Just wanted to pop on to brag about my husband and to share a thought he had while watching the episode. When I watched it initially (before he did) I'd thought it was fun and enjoyable, and there were some interesting undercurrents which could lead to future even more interesting events in the Helen vs. Wexford B plot. I'd even had a feeling in the final scene that as she looked BB/Kali at the end, Helen felt a moments empathy and possibly even envy for the creature who, when it got bad, could lash out and show it's emotions so graphically to the world.

However, when hubs watched it, about halfway through he said to me, "It's a metaphor." I said, "What?" He said, "Kali and Helen. Kali's a metaphor for Helen. Don't you see it? I thought you said this episode wasn't as deep and complex as some of them...?"

And as I thought about it, I realized he was right. Both Helen and Kali are extremely powerful (in their own 'worlds') yet external influences are seeking to usurp that power and control them. And, even, it is Will who serves as the conduit and connection between both of them and everyone else. And I suspect, too, Helen does often wish she could strike out like Kali, lose her rigid emotional control, and finally express all that grief and rage I'm sure she's been sublimating for a long, long time...

So, anyway. I thought that was really cool insight and made me view the entire episode in a completely new light and I figured I'd share :o

EDIT: And I scanned through the previous pages and didn't see this mentioned before, but if it was, I apologize.

Skydiver
January 20th, 2010, 07:02 AM
wow, yeah, i can SOOOO see that.

maybe that's another reason helen didn't kill kali before, because she saw a normally 'helpless and kind' abby, viewed as a threat only because of others fear

I kinda got the impression that Kali agreed to sleep. she said that one line 'i just want to back to sleep', suggesting that maybe helen's solution was less her imprisoning a dangerous abby but them agreeing to a solution that would be the least harmful to the most

dmovies
January 20th, 2010, 09:16 AM
Hey, I'm all for open-mindedness. Actually I thought the backup dancing was really beautiful in an exotic way. I laughed through the whole thing cos Will looked like an escaped crazy from an asylum what with the wild eyes and sweat-soaked pyjamas.

No offense meant to anyone. :)
Will wasn't wearing pyjamas. He was wearing a suit Indian men wear and it's name is salwar. I loved!! the dancing scene. He did it just right for an American guy without any formal training in dance.

Keaira Taegan
January 20th, 2010, 10:34 AM
Just wanted to pop on to brag about my husband and to share a thought he had while watching the episode. When I watched it initially (before he did) I'd thought it was fun and enjoyable, and there were some interesting undercurrents which could lead to future even more interesting events in the Helen vs. Wexford B plot. I'd even had a feeling in the final scene that as she looked BB/Kali at the end, Helen felt a moments empathy and possibly even envy for the creature who, when it got bad, could lash out and show it's emotions so graphically to the world.

However, when hubs watched it, about halfway through he said to me, "It's a metaphor." I said, "What?" He said, "Kali and Helen. Kali's a metaphor for Helen. Don't you see it? I thought you said this episode wasn't as deep and complex as some of them...?"

And as I thought about it, I realized he was right. Both Helen and Kali are extremely powerful (in their own 'worlds') yet external influences are seeking to usurp that power and control them. And, even, it is Will who serves as the conduit and connection between both of them and everyone else. And I suspect, too, Helen does often wish she could strike out like Kali, lose her rigid emotional control, and finally express all that grief and rage I'm sure she's been sublimating for a long, long time...

So, anyway. I thought that was really cool insight and made me view the entire episode in a completely new light and I figured I'd share :o

EDIT: And I scanned through the previous pages and didn't see this mentioned before, but if it was, I apologize.

:eek: Your husband is a genius! :D that does change my entire perspective on the episode. hmmm *ponders this* wow, now i have to watch it again with that in mind! give your husband props for me :)

kes
January 20th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Just wanted to pop on to brag about my husband and to share a thought he had while watching the episode. When I watched it initially (before he did) I'd thought it was fun and enjoyable, and there were some interesting undercurrents which could lead to future even more interesting events in the Helen vs. Wexford B plot. I'd even had a feeling in the final scene that as she looked BB/Kali at the end, Helen felt a moments empathy and possibly even envy for the creature who, when it got bad, could lash out and show it's emotions so graphically to the world.

However, when hubs watched it, about halfway through he said to me, "It's a metaphor." I said, "What?" He said, "Kali and Helen. Kali's a metaphor for Helen. Don't you see it? I thought you said this episode wasn't as deep and complex as some of them...?"

And as I thought about it, I realized he was right. Both Helen and Kali are extremely powerful (in their own 'worlds') yet external influences are seeking to usurp that power and control them. And, even, it is Will who serves as the conduit and connection between both of them and everyone else. And I suspect, too, Helen does often wish she could strike out like Kali, lose her rigid emotional control, and finally express all that grief and rage I'm sure she's been sublimating for a long, long time...

So, anyway. I thought that was really cool insight and made me view the entire episode in a completely new light and I figured I'd share :o

EDIT: And I scanned through the previous pages and didn't see this mentioned before, but if it was, I apologize.

Not bad, but maybe reading too much into it lol
No its a good theory :D

Jonzey
January 21st, 2010, 07:53 AM
Anyone else think they were watching a lot of Doctor Who before writing this? The bad guy's dialogue sounded a lot like things the Doctor would say (an evil version of the Doctor anyway). And after that they watched Superman Returns.

I still enjoyed the episode. Didn't know it was the season finale so now I'm disappointed.

Rose "Snapjinx" McKnight
January 21st, 2010, 08:23 AM
Anyone else think they were watching a lot of Doctor Who before writing this? The bad guy's dialogue sounded a lot like things the Doctor would say (an evil version of the Doctor anyway). And after that they watched Superman Returns.

I still enjoyed the episode. Didn't know it was the season finale so now I'm disappointed.

:lol: Actually, I thought the bad guy even looked a lot like David Tennant, no? It was like, if David Tennant played Lex Luthor.

Celandine
January 21st, 2010, 01:24 PM
Just wanted to pop on to brag about my husband and to share a thought he had while watching the episode. When I watched it initially (before he did) I'd thought it was fun and enjoyable, and there were some interesting undercurrents which could lead to future even more interesting events in the Helen vs. Wexford B plot. I'd even had a feeling in the final scene that as she looked BB/Kali at the end, Helen felt a moments empathy and possibly even envy for the creature who, when it got bad, could lash out and show it's emotions so graphically to the world.

However, when hubs watched it, about halfway through he said to me, "It's a metaphor." I said, "What?" He said, "Kali and Helen. Kali's a metaphor for Helen. Don't you see it? I thought you said this episode wasn't as deep and complex as some of them...?"

And as I thought about it, I realized he was right. Both Helen and Kali are extremely powerful (in their own 'worlds') yet external influences are seeking to usurp that power and control them. And, even, it is Will who serves as the conduit and connection between both of them and everyone else. And I suspect, too, Helen does often wish she could strike out like Kali, lose her rigid emotional control, and finally express all that grief and rage I'm sure she's been sublimating for a long, long time...

So, anyway. I thought that was really cool insight and made me view the entire episode in a completely new light and I figured I'd share :o

EDIT: And I scanned through the previous pages and didn't see this mentioned before, but if it was, I apologize.

I must admit, I really do like this way of looking at it. Would be interesting to ask at TSE if this is what TPTB had in mind or it just 'worked' out that way. I don't think you or the hubby are reading too much into it. Something that even has the slightest hint of making sense does vouch for its validity. ;)

atlantis_babe34
January 21st, 2010, 04:00 PM
Bah! i was thinking through out this episode that season 3 should have an episdoe that people try to over throw Helen.. and it happened! but in season 2!.... Kali was good but i'm hoping the 3rd part will be better :D

LunaSolTierra
January 21st, 2010, 11:23 PM
I agree with what most of you said which is why I think Wexford likely 'overstated' his authority, perhaps he was authorized to take control of the mission and return Magnus to explain to the other heads her actions before a final decision was made and he just arrogantly assumed that if he 'contained' the situation without her help in the eye of her 'failure' to kill her a second time then it would cement his position to take over for her and that Magnus was no longer capable.

If I'm recalling my timelines right I think Magnus tracked Big Bertha for years and finally found her yes four years ago according to what Ravi said in the scene where she admits she's alive, but she tracked her for a very, very, VERY long time before that as she probably does with a lot of extinction level causing abnormals. That's one of the 'things' I found funny about Wexford, he himself said in the episode that she could destroy half of Europe if she's upset, unless he was 100% positive he could kill her with depth charges you do NOT tick off something you yourself says can destroy continents when she's upset because trying to be killed annoys anyone...abnormal or not in my opinion. (Side note, however from what I saw he must have thought the depth charges as they went off would force her into the rift she'd opened below her on the ocean floor but she was spread out across it and could support her weight enough to start moving away, at least I think.)

Perhaps that's why she brought Will in, to become her closer 'Watson' though younger, I can see her and James having talked about it and such before he was approached. What do you all think?

I can see how BB can be a metaphor for Helen and it definitely makes you see the episode from a different perspective.


So I wonder why she hired him in the first place? Maybe we'll see that in the first episode or two of S3.

Perhaps it wasn't exclusively Helen who promoted him. A lot of the major decisions have to made by all heads of the Sanctuaries so it makes sense if they all anonymously voted whether to have him promoted or not.

helenmagnus23
January 22nd, 2010, 02:11 AM
I realy liked Kali it was realy good plus i love seeing RD take his shirt off ;) :)
and i have to say this again but that is one hell of a spider :) i wouldnt want to mess with it in any way :)

I didnt like Wexford saying Helen's on thin ice with how she's handled thing's i'm gussing there will be a serious demotion in Weford's future :)

I love the tsunami at the end i wounder if Kali was giving them a warning shot ? then if they dont stop doing what there doing her full anger will be unleashed .

Keaira Taegan
January 22nd, 2010, 04:52 AM
I realy liked Kali it was realy good plus i love seeing RD take his shirt off ;) :)
and i have to say this again but that is one hell of a spider :) i wouldnt want to mess with it in any way :)

I didnt like Wexford saying Helen's on thin ice with how she's handled thing's i'm gussing there will be a serious demotion in Weford's future :)
I love the tsunami at the end i wounder if Kali was giving them a warning shot ? then if they dont stop doing what there doing her full anger will be unleashed .

i dont think anybody likes what Wexford or did. or really understands how that could legitmately happen to Helen considering she founded the Network. haha hopefully there will be a serious demontion in his future :D

jckfan55
January 22nd, 2010, 02:12 PM
IPerhaps it wasn't exclusively Helen who promoted him. A lot of the major decisions have to made by all heads of the Sanctuaries so it makes sense if they all anonymously voted whether to have him promoted or not.
If so, I wouldn't put it past him to use underhanded methods to get the votes.

Matt G
January 22nd, 2010, 03:06 PM
1. Kali was fit.

2. Will's dance was wierd, but it sort of worked.

3. I like the idea of Wexford and Forsythe being allies - though hell if I know what their goal is other than power-tripping.

4. Willing to bank on Wexford going out on a limb - no way in hell Declan would have backed him.

Like it, but they've got quite a mess to clean up for S3!

MelissaAdams
January 22nd, 2010, 03:43 PM
Boy you aren't kidding there let me promise you...even Amanda said in an interview somewhere (don't recall where) she asked Damien how in heck they were gonig to get out of the mess they created in the season finale and he just laughed and said they'd cross that bridge when they got to it but he basically had no idea at the time...

That is such a true sentiment, how will they get out of it I wonder? There's got to be more to thiis puzzle than we think however, like the Cabal's end game in the start of the season...last season it seemed like they were after the Source Blood only it turns out they wanted the ENTIRE network...so what's Foresythe's & Wexford's end game that we'll find out in season 3??????

chrono trigger
January 22nd, 2010, 03:52 PM
good finale and wills dance was funny but cringey

Celandine
January 22nd, 2010, 04:10 PM
1. Kali was fit.

2. Will's dance was wierd, but it sort of worked.

3. I like the idea of Wexford and Forsythe being allies - though hell if I know what their goal is other than power-tripping.

4. Willing to bank on Wexford going out on a limb - no way in hell Declan would have backed him.

Like it, but they've got quite a mess to clean up for S3!

I've been reading how quite a few people feel Will's dance was laughable, ridiculous and bit over the top. I'm of the other persuasion though and must agree with you that though it was a bit different, it worked.

Besides, how else would Will get Kali to discontinue making land? It was a natural progression to the plot. Will danced. Kali paused. Wexford decided to take matters into his own hands. We wouldnt have had the climax/cliffhanger that we had without it.

LunaSolTierra
January 22nd, 2010, 10:45 PM
I like Will's dance. For someone who doesn't have years of extensive training he did great.

jckfan55
January 23rd, 2010, 11:00 AM
I've been reading how quite a few people feel Will's dance was laughable, ridiculous and bit over the top. I'm of the other persuasion though and must agree with you that though it was a bit different, it worked.

Besides, how else would Will get Kali to discontinue making land? It was a natural progression to the plot. Will danced. Kali paused. Wexford decided to take matters into his own hands. We wouldnt have had the climax/cliffhanger that we had without it.
Glad I'm not the only one who thought it made sense in the context of the story. Will was sort of in a trance. I was caught up in the story & when we saw the other dancers that Will "saw" it worked for me.

Now if an *unaffected* Will tried to dance, maybe that would be funny.

dipsofjazz
January 23rd, 2010, 12:27 PM
I agree. I enjoyed the dancing (and the music) and thought it fitted perfectly with the story.

helenmagnus23
January 23rd, 2010, 11:38 PM
I agree. I enjoyed the dancing (and the music) and thought it fitted perfectly with the story.

Me to i loved Will's dance :) i wounder if RD will dance again in season 3 :)

MelissaAdams
January 24th, 2010, 07:45 AM
You all know the best thing about Will's dance...It actually WORKED in the story. I was so afraid they were just going to put it in there like SG1 did things in that 200 episode, just to be silly and this...this just worked. LOL

RD did a GREAT job for not being a formal dancer, it was seemless and perfect.

jckfan55
January 24th, 2010, 09:14 AM
And I liked the Indian dancers. The reactions of the crowd members were good too. I liked how they cut back and forth a bit between what Will was seeing and what the other people saw.

Eternal Density
January 24th, 2010, 02:30 PM
That was a good double-ep!
Kate was great, Ravi is a cool guy, Forsythe is a mega-awesome opponent, the 'Big Bertha is alive and is Kali' angle is really interesting, and we got to see more of the world, plus Henry got to do some cool stuff.
Normally I detest shows where characters do embarrassing things but fortunately Will's dancing tickled my funny bone the right way, so I and the friends watching with me found it hilarious :D :D
I really didn't like Wexford though: either the attitude or his look. He deserves every bit of the trouble he's now in.
And wow, what a way to end the season! Quite the nasty situation :D

Mousie
January 26th, 2010, 04:34 AM
I loved the episodes, I thought the graphics of Kali were fantastic and the team did a brilliant job on them.

Re some of the suggestions everyone has made, I like the idea of Helen/Kali being similar in nature. One question I have is can anyone remember Grandma's name? I'm sure Forsyth called her Bebe- another link to Bertha?


Haven't' seen the ep yet but am looking forward to it...except I am getting a bit bored with Helen being challenged by her own people...this whole overthrow of power...the take over of Helen's duties is getting old and silly. I mean really, who can this woman trust? I expressed the same thing in another thread, I really didn't like how the other episodes panned out with the seeming lessening of Helen's power and her position within the network but I now love how they handled it. They were building it up gradually throughout the season and looking back it really did work. I don't think all the heads are behind the coup, certainly not Declan and Ravi anyway, The Tokyo guy seemed to respect Helen as well and there certainly didn't seem to be any antagonism towards her from him.

I do think it's just Terrance/Torrence seriously overstepping the mark. I don't think he's evil either, just that he's drunk on the power he now has and that he perceives that Helen is wrong. His mind has locked on that and he can't see passed it. If you take into account that he repeated several times that he owed Helen everything I really don't think he's on a quest to oust Helen for his own benefit but because he truly believes he's taking the best course of action.

It wasn't hard but I did guess quite quickly that Helen would be ousted.

Whilst I didn't enjoy seeing the reality perspective of Will dancing (it was uncomfortable) I didn't mind the why of it. It was all about the ritual, that the penitent go through the trials willingly to show their respect for Kali and their willingness to embrace what is asked of them. If Forsyth hadn't had the technology to force the macra to do his bidding I couldn't see him willingly doing that. It worked when you consider the state of mind Will was in and when you see the 'spirit realm' he was in.

I'm really looking forward to S3 though god knows how they will deal with it without having loads of distruction or the death of Kali. As was said to Helen a couple of times it's going to be extreemly difficult to keep all this contained from the world without everyone finding out about the abnormals.

Keaira Taegan
January 26th, 2010, 11:23 AM
I loved the episodes, I thought the graphics of Kali were fantastic and the team did a brilliant job on them.

Re some of the suggestions everyone has made, I like the idea of Helen/Kali being similar in nature. One question I have is can anyone remember Grandma's name? I'm sure Forsyth called her Bebe- another link to Bertha?

I expressed the same thing in another thread, I really didn't like how the other episodes panned out with the seeming lessening of Helen's power and her position within the network but I now love how they handled it. They were building it up gradually throughout the season and looking back it really did work. I don't think all the heads are behind the coup, certainly not Declan and Ravi anyway, The Tokyo guy seemed to respect Helen as well and there certainly didn't seem to be any antagonism towards her from him.

I do think it's just Terrance/Torrence seriously overstepping the mark. I don't think he's evil either, just that he's drunk on the power he now has and that he perceives that Helen is wrong. His mind has locked on that and he can't see passed it. If you take into account that he repeated several times that he owed Helen everything I really don't think he's on a quest to oust Helen for his own benefit but because he truly believes he's taking the best course of action.

It wasn't hard but I did guess quite quickly that Helen would be ousted.

Whilst I didn't enjoy seeing the reality perspective of Will dancing (it was uncomfortable) I didn't mind the why of it. It was all about the ritual, that the penitent go through the trials willingly to show their respect for Kali and their willingness to embrace what is asked of them. If Forsyth hadn't had the technology to force the macra to do his bidding I couldn't see him willingly doing that. It worked when you consider the state of mind Will was in and when you see the 'spirit realm' he was in.

I'm really looking forward to S3 though god knows how they will deal with it without having loads of distruction or the death of Kali. As was said to Helen a couple of times it's going to be extreemly difficult to keep all this contained from the world without everyone finding out about the abnormals.

that last paragraph of what you said is why i basically hated the whole lets do a coup of Helen idea, however, now that i have been pondering this for over a week im thinking that, as you stated, they did set this up a little throughout the season especially with the first episode regarding big bertha (veritas if i recall correctly)

i concurr that not many of the other heads of houses were with terrence in the coup and i also agree that terrence isnt necessarily evil but just drunk on power, though im not sure that he percieves Helen to be in the wrong. that may or may not be the case. he could be saying that he owes Helen everything to maintain some kind of cover while he looks to reach his endgame. or you could be right and that is the case that he is sincere in that comment and is just trying to do what he believes to be right. To me, at this point im not sure we really have any kind of evidence either way and his true motives are still unknown.

jckfan55
January 26th, 2010, 12:52 PM
i also agree that terrence isnt necessarily evil but just drunk on power, though im not sure that he percieves Helen to be in the wrong. that may or may not be the case. he could be saying that he owes Helen everything to maintain some kind of cover while he looks to reach his endgame. or you could be right and that is the case that he is sincere in that comment and is just trying to do what he believes to be right. To me, at this point im not sure we really have any kind of evidence either way and his true motives are still unknown.
Yes, he did seem sincere when he said to Helen that he owes everything to her. But he could be just that good a manipulator. :( I do think he genuinely thinks he knows better than Helen. I still hate him---as we're supposed to. ;) don't all megalomaniacs think they know best? :D

Keaira Taegan
January 26th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Yes, he did seem sincere when he said to Helen that he owes everything to her. But he could be just that good a manipulator. :( I do think he genuinely thinks he knows better than Helen. I still hate him---as we're supposed to. ;) don't all megalomaniacs think they know best? :D

at this point, i think pretty much anything is possible as far was Wexford goes cuz we know so little about his character. I definately agree that he thinks he knows better than Helen, as with all megalomaniacs, which is ofcourse shenanagins bc she has been around 158 years lol and i definately hate him!!! which is an odd feeling for me because i fracking adore and love Paul McGillion :rolleyes:

Replicator Todd
January 28th, 2010, 02:13 PM
I think i'm the only one who didn't hate Wexford. :P

Keaira Taegan
January 28th, 2010, 02:15 PM
I think i'm the only one who didn't hate Wexford. :P

well, i dont hate the character persay i just hate the stupid decisions he is making :D

RealmOfX
January 28th, 2010, 02:18 PM
I think i'm the only one who didn't hate Wexford. :P

The only reason I hate Wexford in Kali is because I loved the character and his potential use in the webisodes. Put a different character in there and I wouldn't mind; beyond me not liking a rather boring story line of inner organisation politics that is.

Keaira Taegan
January 28th, 2010, 02:23 PM
The only reason I hate Wexford in Kali is because I loved the character and his potential use in the webisodes. Put a different character in there and I wouldn't mind; beyond me not liking a rather boring story line of inner organisation politics that is.

im not sure i find the inner organization politics lines borning so much as annoying. it could just be that i hated the NID on stargate and im having carry over issues with that on this show or i could just find the whole concept annoying in general. though i do agree that wexford was great in the webisodes and perhaps a different character would have been better in his place. but thats just my own humble opinion :)

Replicator Todd
January 28th, 2010, 03:51 PM
The only reason I hate Wexford in Kali is because I loved the character and his potential use in the webisodes. Put a different character in there and I wouldn't mind; beyond me not liking a rather boring story line of inner organisation politics that is.

Unfortunately I have not seen the webisodes or even Season 1, but I shall. I just hope Wexford isn't killed off.

Keaira Taegan
January 28th, 2010, 04:16 PM
Unfortunately I have not seen the webisodes or even Season 1, but I shall. I just hope Wexford isn't killed off.

i dont think he'll get killed off, just fired :D

Kyarra
January 28th, 2010, 09:04 PM
I think i'm the only one who didn't hate Wexford. :P

I don't know that I'd say I hate him, but I think he is rather stubborn, and because of that made some less than intelligent decisions. Whatever trust Magnus broke by keeping Big Bertha alive without telling anyone, you have to admit that she was right about her reasons to do so, making Wexford look like an idiot rather than a hero.

Kyarra
January 28th, 2010, 09:20 PM
Actually, it did look cool, but I guess the crowd watching him bothered me most because if someone was acting like that I wouldn't stick around! :P

That would be why it was set in India instead of America...

Kyarra
January 28th, 2010, 09:28 PM
Who was the Actress that played Kali?

Kali was played by Sahar Biniaz.

Kyarra
January 28th, 2010, 09:43 PM
The bath scene was very unnecessary, I didn't like it at all.

I don't know that the information in the scene was unnecessary, but I wish it had been conveyed in a different context. For me, it was just awkward to watch.

maylet
February 4th, 2010, 01:23 PM
Unfortunately I have not seen the webisodes or even Season 1, but I shall. I just hope Wexford isn't killed off.

We all are hoping that, after what he did

MelissaAdams
February 4th, 2010, 04:36 PM
I just thought of a new question after watching this episode twice. Clearly Foresythe isn't using Bertha to leverage oil rights or power, he used her to create land so what is his endgame do we think? I've got no idea honestly, he's got an endgame though otherwise why steal her and why use her to make land?

Melissa

Keaira Taegan
February 4th, 2010, 04:39 PM
I just thought of a new question after watching this episode twice. Clearly Foresythe isn't using Bertha to leverage oil rights or power, he used her to create land so what is his endgame do we think? I've got no idea honestly, he's got an endgame though otherwise why steal her and why use her to make land?

Melissa

hmm good question. im thinking maybe he just wanted his own islands to be "king" of so to speak. Im really not sure though.
I definately want to hear other peoples ideas and theories :)

Skydiver
February 4th, 2010, 04:46 PM
I just thought of a new question after watching this episode twice. Clearly Foresythe isn't using Bertha to leverage oil rights or power, he used her to create land so what is his endgame do we think? I've got no idea honestly, he's got an endgame though otherwise why steal her and why use her to make land?

Melissa

I think he's trying to make pangea to prove his theory

MelissaAdams
February 4th, 2010, 08:18 PM
Pangea is possible but if I recall the episode off the top of my head or my way of understanding it weren't people extinct at that point and only abnormals/animals alive or do I need to go watch the episode again? LOL

Skydiver
February 5th, 2010, 04:03 AM
when pangea was on earth, i think it was just the critters and the planet, no people

but they mention how forsyth had a theory about pangea (the original super continent, when all our present land masses were one massive one)

Rocky89
March 5th, 2010, 07:13 PM
My review for part 1- OK, I saw the episode and so far I'm really impressed with part 1. :)

I thought the first part was very well done, I love that it starts off in India, then leads into Tokyo. I was very looking forward to seeing the Tokyo scenes, I knew it was only a few scenes, but I was still impressed, and it was a real treat to see PM in the episode. :) Also I liked seeing Declan in the episode, I was glad to see him, I think he's a cool guy. :D

I was very surprised to see Callum Blue (Smallville) on the show, I think he's great as Zod and I think he did a very good job as the bay guy in this episode. I like how everything that happens in the episode all leads up to something big, and I like how some big secrets are revealed, like finally learning more about Big Bertha, and the Kali.

I can't wait to see next week and I know it'll be great, since part 1 had me nervous most of the time. :D ;)

Oh, I loved the Rocky joke. :D

And now- WHOA! That was a whopper of a season finale. ;)

I've been waiting for it all week, and it was a long wait. I was a little surprised to hear Robin/Will doing the "previously on..." thing, I was expecting Helen's voice. :D Anyway, I thought it was cool how it started, Will coming in on a stretcher with Helen on top of him (lucky Will :D), but thought it was cool with them fighting to save him and that Will was calling out for Kali. I thought it was sweet of Kate to tell Helen none of what's happening is her fault, and that made me like her more. :)

PM's character was kinda of a jerk, more like a wolf in sheep's clothing :mckay: but it was really weird hearing him talk without his Scottish accent. :p I missed Big guy in the episode, but I'm glad we got more Henry, and that he was able to pitch in. I thought the Will/kali storyline was cool and it was all going good until PM's character had to make a mess of things. As for Callum Blue's character, I thought he was a good villain, I like that he's gotten things the way they are, no it's up to Helen and the team to fix it.

The eps needed more Helen, but other than that it was good. Oh and I loved how Big Bertha went nuts at the end. ;) I'll review more in replies. :)

Baltimorejack71
July 2nd, 2010, 08:59 PM
i gotta admit, i couldn't watch will dance. i have a 'making a fool of one's self' quirk, just can't watch characters doing things

but...what a cliffie

paul/wexford reprises his role...only to be a PITA know it all.

helen seems to be surrounded by some very back biting betrayers.

i liked seeing the mumbai sanctuary, now we know that there's one in lima and yet more of helen's past comes back to haunt her

very enjoyable despite the dancing :)


I agree. Aside from the Dance Scene, I thoght it it was a solid two-part cliffhanger.

I'm beginning to dislike Wexford more and more. I have found it disturbing that his ambitions and desires have now trumped and outstripped his loyalties to Magnus and The Network. She had reasons for her actions regarding Big Bertha, therefore she should not have been punished for it. Wexford's attempt at usurping the leadership was, at the very least, treasonous. I also believe that the other Sanctuary Heads would not have backed him willingly.

It was nice to revisit the Tokyo and London Sanctuaries, and to see the Mumbai Sanctuary for the first time was a real treat.

I'll only tough on the Dance Scene with this question: was the music that played over the scene a traditional Indian rhythm, or is it a more contemporary song, available on CD? And who is the artist?

The actress that played Kali was absolutely gorgeous! Sahar Biniaz was a real find!


Richard A Benedict
Glen Burnie, Maryland, USA
[email protected]

helenmagnus23
July 3rd, 2010, 07:31 PM
I just thought of a new question after watching this episode twice. Clearly Foresythe isn't using Bertha to leverage oil rights or power, he used her to create land so what is his endgame do we think? I've got no idea honestly, he's got an endgame though otherwise why steal her and why use her to make land?

Melissa

Realy good questions Melissa:D

My theory is he is using Kali in the way of the anciant txts he wants to have that full connection so he can create a world a new one in which the abnormals are gone the humans remain and to start it he needs a secure area to do that so he gets Kali to create land for him so when the End Of Days happens he will be unafected.

But i'm guessing he has no idea just how dangerouis Kali can be where as Helen does and with Will still being connected to her there is a chance for everyone to live but if Kali learns the truth about Foresythe who know what she can infilict on him .

I'm totaly sided with Magnus against Wexford becase if you take out a creature capable of globel distruction the earth could be severly damaged if not destroyed soit was a good idea for Helen to keep her alive and hidden :D

Sp!der
December 14th, 2010, 11:55 AM
I loved season two, there is nothing wrong about that although I did no like the finale, the story were not that... I dont know.. something were missing, there were some nice things like paul mcgillion etc. big guy but other than that I thought that season ones finale was much more thrilling than this one. Hope Season three is doing great..

BEST QUOTE OF SANCTUARY: " I CAN DANCE!!!!" ...funny as hell ;)

mathpiglet
February 15th, 2012, 02:32 PM
The dancing definitely lightened the mostly very somber episode.

Girlbot
February 16th, 2012, 08:03 AM
OMG, the dancing :eek:
this is the ep that really turned me off to Sanctuary. I thought the dancing thing was ridiculous IMO

jckfan55
February 17th, 2012, 12:43 PM
I actually thought it fit with the story.

dipsofjazz
February 17th, 2012, 02:34 PM
I actually thought it fit with the story.
:D So did I. It's not like the whole episode had everyone dancing all the time. It was one short scene that was part of the overall story.