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GateWorld
September 18th, 2009, 01:27 PM
<DIV ALIGN="center"><TABLE WIDTH="450" BORDER="0" CELLSPACING="0" CELLPADDING="7"><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN="left"><FONT FACE="Verdana, Arial, san-serif" SIZE="2" COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2009-4.jpg" WIDTH="160" HEIGHT="120" ALIGN="right" HSPACE="10" VSPACE="2" BORDER="0" STYLE="border: 1px black solid;" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE="1" COLOR="#888888">DOCTOR WHO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE="4"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/doctor-who/specials/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">THE END OF TIME, PART 2</A></FONT>
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With all of Earth under the Master's control, the Doctor tries to convince him that there is yet a greater threat to them both: the Time Lords are returning.

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Coco Pops
December 29th, 2009, 02:09 AM
After now watching all 4 series again.....

I don't know which series but the Doctor said to one of his companions, possibly Martha that he saw Galifrey burn..... That he was the cause of it. Something along those lines and I am kind of sure it was Martha.

That made me think of the very first of the new series and Parting Of The Ways and I wonder if the Doctor used a weapon like the Delta Wave as a last ditch effort to fight the Daleks and it caused both them and Galifrey to burn while he was safe in the TARDIS watching as a helpless observer.....

Now that we are getting End of time What do people think of this?

Replicator Todd
December 29th, 2009, 08:55 AM
Well, if that is the reason then the Time Lords have a good reason to have a vendetta against The Doctor, and to be angry. I wonder if this means the Time Lords will be enemies in the next series.

Admiral Mappalazarou
December 29th, 2009, 08:57 AM
Well the Doctor was always seemingly on the run from his own people in the original classic series. I think I'd quite enjoy a return to that, although the return of the Time Lords kinda destroys the point of the last four series for me :S

Flyboy
December 30th, 2009, 03:46 AM
Well the Doctor was always seemingly on the run from his own people in the original classic series. I think I'd quite enjoy a return to that, although the return of the Time Lords kinda destroys the point of the last four series for me :S
As did every reappearance of the daleks after the Doctor's constant 'they're all gone' rhetoric.

Dan1879
December 30th, 2009, 07:24 AM
Well I'm glad the timelords are returning. I just hope that they will be here to stay, not like the return of the ancients in SGA.

SGalisa
December 31st, 2009, 05:03 PM
...that he saw Galifrey burn..... That he was the cause of it. Something along those lines and I am kind of sure it was Martha.

That made me think of the very first of the new series and Parting Of The Ways and I wonder if the Doctor used a weapon like the Delta Wave as a last ditch effort to fight the Daleks and it caused both them and Galifrey to burn while he was safe in the TARDIS watching as a helpless observer.....


Well, if that is the reason then the Time Lords have a good reason to have a vendetta against The Doctor, and to be angry. I wonder if this means the Time Lords will be enemies in the next series.


Well the Doctor was always seemingly on the run from his own people in the original classic series...

Actually, I think from earlier DW (actor #) versions, I think the Doctor and the Time Lords never did ever agree on the same groundwork levels. The Time Lords seemed to jump into throwing the Doctor to his death on several occasions..
I don't really recall the Time Lords ever being truly happy to see the Doctor, even when
the Doctor became President of Gallifrey by default (I think that happened during Tom Baker's reign) ;)

The Time Lords always seemed a bit off-ity and non-caring, unless their own life was in danger. It's always been the Doctor who has had the hearts to care about the rest of the universe, for which the Time Lords were overseers of. Occasionally, there have also been higher powers (beings) at work, even more powerful than the Time Lords..

But as for the Time Lords.. they always seem to clash with the Doctor's way of thinking, and I doubt even if they return for a while (as in resetting / fixing whatever happened with the Time Wars), if they will ever be in complete agreement with the Doctor's ways... which when speculating how instrumental the Time Lords might be in fixing the Doctor's life at the end of EoT-Part 2, it might be more likely to find the Time Lords arguing over helping regenerate the Doctor, and us -- the audience-- seeing some other force step in and fix the Doctor so that he will transform into a new "self".
But.. that's my own personal theory. :)

Coco Pops
December 31st, 2009, 05:30 PM
But they elected themselves as overseers of the univese. No one wanted them in that role, that they imposed upon themselves, that strikes me as very arrogant and presumptuous..

That makes them potential bad guys in my books. No wonder the Doctor ran from Galifrey.

Aerilon
January 1st, 2010, 03:08 AM
If it'll be that the Time Lords do turn out to be bad guys come next season, I can't see how that is going to work. They are the masters of space and time, correct? That being the case, if they're going to hunt the Doctor next series, they'd essentially know where he is going to be, and when. He wont have time to stop off at random planets picking up companions and solving problems, cause the timelords will be right behind him.

Depending upon how they return, I think, come the closure of the episode, the timelords will allow the Doctor to live (as he'll have regenerated) but they'll disown him, and will make it clear that he isn't welcome on Gallifrey, or wherever it is they're hiding now.

Flyboy
January 1st, 2010, 03:21 AM
But they elected themselves as overseers of the univese. No one wanted them in that role, that they imposed upon themselves, that strikes me as very arrogant and presumptuous..

That makes them potential bad guys in my books. No wonder the Doctor ran from Galifrey.
Team America Gallifrey - World Universe Police?

JennyJumper
January 1st, 2010, 11:02 AM
Part two was better than part one. It was a real tear jerker :(
gunna miss him :(

Flyboy
January 1st, 2010, 11:05 AM
I'm dissapointed.

There, I said it.


For a start I think Wilf was handled terribly. He was set up to be an old soldier who was yet to fight his key battle, and then what was his role? To get trapped in a bloody cubicle and lead to the Doctor's death. And even the Doctor started slagging him off for that. Wilf should have played a major role in this, not get shafted as he did.

Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.

Honestly - I think they milked this massively. DT leaving is NOT the end of everything, he's no more special than any previous Doctor, we did NOT need a 'this is your life' style walk down memory lane. Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.

I'm also not happy at all with the introduction of Matt Smith, he was written too similarly to DT in this scene, which I think damaged the moment considerably.

I DID like the Master finally getting his own back, and that WAS good, but overall, I feel let down.

Sure, DT had an emotional performance, but in my opinion, it was an unnecessary one.



And sorry - MICKEY AND MARTHA?! What!?





EDIT:


Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.


Btw - was it just me, or did the Doctor call the Lord President 'Rassilon'?

Billz
January 1st, 2010, 11:11 AM
OMFG!
10th Doc goes back to the day before Rose meets the 9th Doctor!

Was I the only one expecting Christopher Eccelston (9th Doctor) to show up when David Tennant (10th Doctor) was strugling to get back to the TARDIS and help him just after he sees pre-Doctor Rose?

And we still don't know who The Woman was? I'm still inclined to think it was The Doctor's Mother. Also, after David was done regenerating, the TARDIS console started falling to bits. I hope they don't make the interior look cr*p in the next season.

Oh, and Timothy Dalton was Lord President Rassilon according to one scene. Also, where did The Master go? We didn't see him die or dissapear in anyway?

And was it just me, or was that the Resurrection Gauntlet from Torchwood that Rasslon was using?

Aerilon
January 1st, 2010, 11:11 AM
Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.Saying goodbye maybe? He knows that his time is up, wanted to do the rounds, have one last look at everyone.


And sorry - MICKEY AND MARTHA?! What!?Saw that one coming. It's been rumoured for a while, has it not?

Was a good episode though, what a way for Tennant to go. Not so sure why the Tardis is falling apart though, the Doctor has regenerated before without destroying the Tardis.

Also, in regards to the TimelordsI believe that is well and truly the end of the Master too. If he's gone back to Gallifrey with the other Timelords (that woman was so the Doctors mother by the way).

Goes without saying too, that we now know why the Doctor killed his own people. Even though I doubt very much they were all corrupt. I am suprised though that the Doctor didn't actually have anything to directly do with Donna. That seemed a bit of a miss. She seems to be remembering bits and pieces, yet nothing ever came of it.

Also, a nice little problem here (depending how much you look into it).Rose saw the Doctor, who she'd later meet, but surely she'd have recognised him? Granted he was in the shadows, but I'm sure she'd have seen his face.Was nice to see all of the old cast too, a proper farewell, although I do wonder whether we'll see any of them again, being that the new Doctor is suppose to have his own show (so to speak) and is to be leaving everyone and everything else behind.

I'm pretty sure I missed something, but this'll have to do for now.

Edit: In regards to regenerationHas it suddenly changed? All past ones haven't been so... emotional. It was more like "I'm going to regenerate, but I'll be the same person, don't worry". This time, it was more like "I'm going to regenerate, but I'll be a whole new person, and my old self will die". What?

The Prophet
January 1st, 2010, 11:16 AM
Man, that was terrible.

Time Lords come back. Time Lords don't stay. Oh boy.

The Master's impact on the world is literally hand-waved away.

Wilf had no purpose other than bring about the Doctor's death. With some stupid plot point about a radiation chamber thing, and a lot of technobabble. Just seems too forced for me.

The gun part was pointless. "Oh no, the Doctor's going to have to shoot someone!" and then he doesn't. That part didn't even make any sense to me.

"Oh no he's going to shoot James Bond!" Wait a second. That wont help anything! It's the Master he's going to have to shoot if anything, stop leaping back and forth.

And then he shoots the Crystal device, which a Sonic Screwdriver could have achieved anyway.

And I agree with Flying Officer Bennett, Matt Smith's Doctor seemed too similar to Tennant's in the short segment he was in. It felt poor. Nothing against the actor, but he shouldn't be written to imitate Tennant.

Donna was pretty pointless in this too. She did nothing. If you're going to show her, at least give her some small role to play.


I enjoyed the Doctor/ Master conversation at the start though, with the Doctor still offering redemption and a chance to explore the Universe by his side.

Over-all though, it was pretty cheesy. And not good Doctor Who cheesy, but cheap Sci-Fi Original Movie cheesy. I'm glad that RTD is leaving, I never really fancied his stories.

Ian-S
January 1st, 2010, 11:18 AM
what a load of crap.

Sorry but RTD has really done it this time for me, I'll elaborate later, gonna go get drunk now.

Puddle-Jumper
January 1st, 2010, 11:19 AM
I dunno if Im happy or sad about that.... I was really looking forward to it... but the timelords were just sent off very easily... though I loved how it explained why the master is so drummed in the head.... The whole martha micky thing was like WTF?!... Possible something to bring into torchwood... and the thing with jack was hilarious... I loved that the lord president was rassilon

And who was yer one like?! The time lord lady that wilf was seeing... the doctor recognised her.. He has mentioned that he's had family before.. a wife... children etc.. Maybe... or it could have been the rani? its hinted at that she and doctor had a previous relationship not to mention the timewar seems to have messed everyone up...

Im not sure was I happy or sad with how the doctor died... the thing about the radiation and a cubicle was a bit stupid I thought..... but I really liked how he chose to die to save wilf...

Madeleine
January 1st, 2010, 11:21 AM
I loved it. The Doctor Should die saving a single person; not the whole universe, just one friend. I loved the little Cactus, I loved Verity Newman, I was happy to see Donna happy, I loved the WORST RESCUE EVER and I loved the explanation for the Master's madness.




Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.

True, but he never 'died' alone before. And he never seemed to fight the regeneration so hard; I think he was tring to have extra time as 'himself'. And there doesn't need to be a precedent - after all, each Doctor is a different person as much as he is the same.


Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.

Eh?
Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.


Btw - was it just me, or did the Doctor call the Lord President 'Rassilon'?



Its as likely that RTD read a '50s Asimov story called "the Last Question" or that he watched Babylon 5. There's nothing new under the sun :D

And no, it wasnt just you.

SGalisa
January 1st, 2010, 11:27 AM
If it'll be that the Time Lords do turn out to be bad guys come next season, I can't see how that is going to work. They are the masters of space and time, correct? That being the case, if they're going to hunt the Doctor next series, they'd essentially know where he is going to be, and when.

ummm... Doctors # 2 and # 3 era reboot??
It worked then just fine.. ;)
And I think Doctor # 4's era made some sort of compromise about how the whole Time Lord's were basically forced to begin appreciating the Doctor for rescuing them during some of the most impossible odds. It has happened before and might happen again.. just a *wild* thought. ;)


He wont have time to stop off at random planets picking up companions and solving problems, cause the timelords will be right behind him.

well that little *problem* of the Doctor being tracked down or hunted never stopped the companions from coming aboard.. :D


Depending upon how they return, I think, come the closure of the episode, the timelords will allow the Doctor to live (as he'll have regenerated) but they'll disown him, and will make it clear that he isn't welcome on Gallifrey, or wherever it is they're hiding now.

Not sure if that will be a choice.. but the Time Lords have never really been on the Doctor's side of viewing the rest of the universe -- time and space wise. Besides, try to remember the Doctor's roots -- and from whence the TARDIS came from. The Doctor basically stole the TARDIS from Gallifrey. And actually, I'm not sure if stolen would be a correct term, even tho that is what the Doctor keeps saying.

This particular TARDIS is a type 40 (type forte in some translations =).
Before the series began, this specific TARDIS was originally sitting in a garbage dump already decommissioned and waiting for permanent disposal (destruction). It was abandoned in a sense, and the Doctor got curious, went inside and took off with it. Somehow, he ended up with the imprint of the operator assigned to that TARDIS, and the rest became history.

So, ever since those fateful days from the very beginnings of the Doctor's journeys, he hasn't exactly been disowned, but was more of a fugitive --always on the run from his own people-- for being a thief. That essentially has always been the core roots of the DOCTOR WHO series.

Naturally, he might not be welcomed back to Gallifrey with open arms, but someone or something -- somewhere in time and space has always been guarding over the Doctor and always bringing him into places where he's been needed the most. It's never been clear if the Time Lords were actually responsible or if the TARDIS itself was a sentient being and therefore guardian over Time and Space -- higher than the mere Time Lords of Gallifrey.

It will be interesting to see how the stories pan out from here on in, with the Doctor fighting the Master or some other creature in Time and Space. I think when he attended the Academy and failed to graduate properly, he was unable to regenerate. But once he entered the TARDIS, the higher powers that be and have guarded over him, gave him the ability to become immortal to a point, by regeneration. Yes, it will be sad to see David Tennant's Doctor #10's cycle close, but this series has a way of being creative enough to find ways of keeping the Doctor alive, in whatever actor or appearance he has turned up into. :)

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 11:29 AM
*Gropes for another tissue*

what can I say,

The conclusion of Part One wasn't as good as it could have been but after that, the Dr's 'death' was very well done.

Hands up who didn't see the Deux Ex Machina coming

The whole conclusion was a bit pants IMO

But the whole Pre death/visiting companions/saying goodbye to Wilf was brilliant, fantastically acted by David Tennant and Bernard Cribbins.

So we still haven't really got a conclusion to the Time War (See first comment)

Didn't see it being Wilf that knocked four times.

Ahhhh, Jack and Midshipman Frame got together (There's gonna be some angry Jack/Ianto shippers out there)

I think I blubbed the most over Jessica Hynes character and Wilf's final goodbye

So questions left over

Was Timothy Dalton Rassilon?

Was that female Timelord/Wilf's vision Romana?

Mickey and Martha WTF??? I thought she married Tom, or was that an AU Mickey and Martha?

I loved the Doctor giving Donna that lottery ticket and borrowing the money from Donna's Dad.

All in all, it was a lot better than part one.

Oh, one more thought, do you think anyone will show this to George Lucas? At least RTD admitted, kind of, that the battle sequence was based on Star Wars

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 11:32 AM
And was it just me, or was that the Resurrection Gauntlet from Torchwood that Rasslon was using?
That's what it was!! I knew I'd seen it somewhere before

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 1st, 2010, 11:36 AM
I loved that episode :).

Part One was okay, but too cheesy. Part 2 I really enjoyed.

Teddybrown
January 1st, 2010, 11:42 AM
What an episode! Quite a good send off for David Tennant. For a bit at the end, didnt think he would regenerate, because the action finished 15mins before it finished, but I really liked that he went to see all his companions as one last kind of like goodbye (Did he save Martha and Mickey and Sarah Janes son?).
Didnt rerally understand the whole regeneration bit at the end because wasnt he meant to die?, or maybe just meant he had to regenerate again. But overall a good episode

I kind of agree that Matt Smith was kind of trying to be David Tennant at the end with his small bit, it seemed a bit similar, but Im going to wait for the new series to see if I like him.

New series Spring 2010 :)
Going to have to wait and see what the new doctors like
Trailer looks quite good
Daleks coming back though, kind of thought they were finished with Davros, but going to have to wait and see
Also saw the Weeping Angels which should be good
Cant wait
But I think Im going to miss David Tennant

PMN1
January 1st, 2010, 11:46 AM
Disappointing....

Teddybrown
January 1st, 2010, 11:47 AM
EDIT:


Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.


I thought of this too. Someone mentioned the Timelords being like the Ancients in another post, and my mind went back to it
Timelord ascension

The Mighty 6 platoon
January 1st, 2010, 11:53 AM
It was alright, far better than part 1 and while perhaps a little overblown I enjoyed the end with the Doctor saying his goodbyes than the earlier part dealing with the Time Lord who were I felt dealt with too easily.

And I think FOB’s right, for all RTD’s mocking of Stargate he had been watching and taking notes. I know that energy beings are hardly original ideas but they used the exact same terms in this ep as Stargate.

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 12:03 PM
After seen the 2010 preview

THE WEEPING ANGELS ARE BACK!!!

Vampires?? (Cashing in on Twilight anyone?)
Daleks (but I got the impression that it was a 'dud' dalek

I'm really looking forward to Matt Smith's Doctor

PMN1
January 1st, 2010, 12:05 PM
Maybe its meant to be a three parter when all the unanswered questions get answered....:rolleyes:

SGalisa
January 1st, 2010, 12:05 PM
okay, I haven't seen the eppy yet (no access to the main BBC network). However...


The gun part was pointless. "Oh no, the Doctor's going to have to shoot someone!" and then he doesn't. That part didn't even make any sense to me.

"Oh no he's going to shoot James Bond!" Wait a second. That wont help anything! It's the Master he's going to have to shoot if anything, stop leaping back and forth.

And then he shoots the Crystal device, which a Sonic Screwdriver could have achieved anyway.

awww now, what fun would that be..? Since I'm only going by what has been discussed thus far, had he used the sonic screwdriver, he probably would have been criticized for getting out of the situation too easily with that, as he's been accused of in the past. And the Doctor usually uses whatever tools he has available at that immediate moment and improvises. ;)



Was a good episode though, what a way for Tennant to go. Not so sure why the Tardis is falling apart though, the Doctor has regenerated before without destroying the Tardis.

I doubt if the TARDIS is falling apart, tho for newbies, it makes a good suspense build-up.. In earlier Doctor versions, the TARDIS usually redecorates or remodels itself for the new Doctor persona. In Tom Baker's era (DW#4), there were 2 console rooms shown -- one was old and closed down for the TARDIS making its upgrading of it. The newer console room was the White room version -- having a very modern wall interior and the console itself changing shape for nearly each new season. Any time something different suddenly appeared, it was basically explained as "Oh, that's new.." :D
and generally accepted as part of the storyline or upgrading process.

So, even tho I have another day to go before seeing it tomorrow night, I'm going to guess that viewers are actually witnessing the TARDIS revamping its interior -- in action. And no, this doesn't ruin not seeing the ep yet, because I think by now, the Doctor's stories have grown on me enough to know what to expect.. high camp (the U.K.'s generic humor dept) -- a spoof to all that ever could be for sci-fi programs anywhere. :)

PMN1
January 1st, 2010, 12:06 PM
Star Wars meets Star Gate (with a little bit of Being Human thrown in...)

Draygon
January 1st, 2010, 12:10 PM
I did enjoy this episode. Better than part one.

Bit's I liked:

1. The scene between Wilf and the Doctor where Wilf tries to give him the gun. Very emotional and interesting that all the Doctor's qualms about killing and taking the gun are thrown out the window as soon as he realises the Time lords are involved.
2. The Master's revenge! Go him! :P
3.That mystery Woman though... so many possible identities... my favorite is Romana ;) Hope See see her again!
4. Wilf being the Doctor's death. It was so simple and unexpected and it worked! Huge emotional impact because of the simplicity of it.
5. The Doctor's reward: getting to say goodbye. Isn't that the best reward for someone who's going to die? Normally when he regenerates it's so sudden he doesn't get the chance and just has to run with it, but this time he had the time to bid old friends farewell who won't know who you are afterwards.

Didn't like:
1. Timelords wanting to ascend? RTD, put down the Stargate DVDs....
2. Micky and Martha. WTF?! No. Just no!
3. The regeneration. The old series had almost a different style for each doctor, would a bit of variety be too much to ask?
4. Err... why did the Tardis start falling apart? Though my theory is because the Doctor is trying to fight the regeneration and the Tardis is reacting to the turmoil within him.

But really, a good episode.

Sealurk
January 1st, 2010, 12:23 PM
Well, that was...hmm. Yep.

Great fun, until you stop to think about it. And then you feel a bit cheated and let down. But still good, and I liked the reason for the regeneration.

No longer so sure Matt Smith is going to be a good Doctor, having seen his extremely Ten-esque intro sequence (I'll put it down to post-regen trauma for now), which is somehow more irritating than when Tennant did that kind of stuff. The trailer for the new series doesn't fill me with as much hope as I had when I heard Moffat was taking over.

I had always wondered how the Doctor perceived regeneration, whether each Doctor considers himself a different person or the same person but with different personas and faces. Now I know. Don't think it's quite right, somehow.

I'll be honest, I was actually glad to see Tennant go - I think he overstayed his welcome a bit, for me at least.

Overall, not bad, not brilliant. Bigger isn't always better.

Flyboy
January 1st, 2010, 12:26 PM
Well, that was...hmm. Yep.

Great fun, until you stop to think about it. And then you feel a bit cheated and let down. But still good, and I liked the reason for the regeneration.

No longer so sure Matt Smith is going to be a good Doctor, having seen his extremely Ten-esque intro sequence (I'll put it down to post-regen trauma for now), which is somehow more irritating than when Tennant did that kind of stuff. The trailer for the new series doesn't fill me with as much hope as I had when I heard Moffat was taking over.

I had always wondered how the Doctor perceived regeneration, whether each Doctor considers himself a different person or the same person but with different personas and faces. Now I know. Don't think it's quite right, somehow.

I'll be honest, I was actually glad to see Tennant go - I think he overstayed his welcome a bit, for me at least.

Overall, not bad, not brilliant. Bigger isn't always better.
I think RTD dropped the ball frankly.

The ep became a David Tennant send off episode, and not a regeneration episode.

Frankly, I'm going to put down the stupid opinion of regeneration that Doc 10 appeared to have down to the fact that he'd become a bit of a tw*t. Egostical and arrogant. Liked himself too much. I highly doubt any of the other Doctor's felt the same - heck Doc 10 even talked about his previous selves as simply being 'him being young' in Time Crash.

Sealurk
January 1st, 2010, 12:38 PM
I think RTD dropped the ball frankly.

The ep became a David Tennant send off episode, and not a regeneration episode.

Frankly, I'm going to put down the stupid opinion of regeneration that Doc 10 appeared to have down to the fact that he'd become a bit of a tw*t. Egostical and arrogant. Liked himself too much. I highly doubt any of the other Doctor's felt the same - heck Doc 10 even talked about his previous selves as simply being 'him being young' in Time Crash.

I expected to be cheering when he regenerated - I'm sick of the sight (and sound) of David Tennant, especially after the last week. Yes, I quite liked him as the Doctor (thought Eccleston was better though), yes, I appreciate he may well become as iconic a Doctor to current viewers as Tom Baker was after his tenure, but come on!

I think you're right about Ten's very high opinion of himself.

Seems that regeneration is like taking off a plaster, it hurts less if you do it quickly.

Aerilon
January 1st, 2010, 12:41 PM
I had always wondered how the Doctor perceived regeneration, whether each Doctor considers himself a different person or the same person but with different personas and faces. Now I know. Don't think it's quite right, somehow.As I mentioned earlier, this time round it seemed different. Normally, the impression I got was that they regenerate, get a new body, new feelings and emotions and what not, but are essentially the same person.

Now it makes it seem as though, after each regeneration, its a totally new person, but with the same memories. That being the case, there ain't nothing to stop the Doctor regenerating into an evil dictator at some point. If every regeneration makes him 'new', there is nothing to say he is always going to be good.

The Timelords got arrogant, some would say Tennant's doctor did too (he screwed around on Mars). Suffice to say, whatever he did, he was still percieved as good. He wanted to save the lives of the people on mars, where the timelords just seem hell bent on total destruction. Obviously lost their way I think. They picked up arms, and became the one thing they were trying to fight. They eventually met their doom.

I am curious though, half of the species the doctor was talking to the master about, anyone got any info on them?

I'm still amazed that the doctor fell / jumped off a space ship, fell through a glass window, and survived. Tough huh? I actually thought (for a split second) that he was going to die there and then, was going to shoot the master, and then die, then regenerate. Then when he got up, I actually thought he might shoot himself, cause he didn't want to go make choices.

I do ponder though, did the master save the doctor, or did he just want revenge? There was nothing to stop him throwing the doctor aside first, but he actually told him to move.

Flyboy
January 1st, 2010, 12:41 PM
I expected to be cheering when he regenerated - I'm sick of the sight (and sound) of David Tennant, especially after the last week. Yes, I quite liked him as the Doctor (thought Eccleston was better though), yes, I appreciate he may well become as iconic a Doctor to current viewers as Tom Baker was after his tenure, but come on!

I think you're right about Ten's very high opinion of himself.

Seems that regeneration is like taking off a plaster, it hurts less if you do it quickly.
I kinda wish he HAD actually regenerated in Journey's End. Basically these Specials just dragged out the inevitable in a very annoying fashion.

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 12:42 PM
Maybe its meant to be a three parter when all the unanswered questions get answered....:rolleyes:
Dream on Love, dream on

Ashizuri
January 1st, 2010, 12:43 PM
Martha married MICKEY!?! Ummm, wtf. What happened to that nice Tom Milligan that she was happily engaged to?

The Doctor going to see Rose the day before she met Nine was sweet. I kept hoping for an Eccleston cameo, but noooooo.

Donna's end is bittersweet.

The Jack/Frame scene was cute, but basically confirms my worst fears that there will be no emotional fallout from CoE on Jack. And, ok, the "I know you killed you grandson and your lover died and your daughter hates you but mansex with Russell Tovey cures all" thing is a bit lame. God, I hope Tovey stays on his current, awesome show and doesn't join TW.

Honestly, I was underwhelmed and not at all sorry to see Ten/RTD go. I just wish he'd gtfo of TW as well.

Smegger56
January 1st, 2010, 12:47 PM
Really good send off to the tenth doctor

some complain that it was overblown, that the regeneration was not like the others. That it was so self absorbed. Why should this doctor be more important?

Well, I say that it was great to see the a doctor show so much emotion, show that each doctor is different as they are the same. I love the fact that he said regeneration is like death. It means he's not just talking about himself, but his previous incarnations as well.

Also, sorry, but the fact that there was ascension in the episode does not necessarily mean he was watching Stargate. Sorry. Maybe, but maybe not. It kind of makes sense that if you're going to end time and existance, you youself don't want to go with it? Right? Hell, Star Trek has used the higher plain of existance storys before too. And i'm sure other works of fiction have used it in some variety.

Btw, Mr Smith being like Tennent at the end of the ep, makes sense. He's just regenerated and so may have some residual traits before his new personality comes through. Maybe.

Anyways, great ep. We'll miss you Mr Tennent

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 12:49 PM
I'll be honest, I was actually glad to see Tennant go - I think he overstayed his welcome a bit, for me at least.
So was I to be honest.

A bit of trivia (from my mum actually) David Tennant has been on TV and Radio 75 times over the xmas period. That's excessive, infact someone Twittered "Is David Tennant dead/ he hasn't been on TV for at least 30 mins" He's been taking Media Whore lessons from John Barrowman

Pitry
January 1st, 2010, 12:50 PM
Damn beautiful episode. Loved it to bits.

I can forgive the Time Lords staying dead because of the revelation of what really happened during the Time War. That one was kept pretty nicely under wraps. and is Timothy Dalton now officially the Rassilon of Rassilon? :)
The Master sacrificing himself for a double revenge/saving the Doctor's life was beautiful.
The whole conversation on board the Vin Vochi ship between the Doctor and Wilf was made of sheer awesomeness - esp. the bit when the Doctor finally did take the gun. That's when I started crying like a baby and it didn;t stop til the end of the episode, haha.
The Doctor's "reward" was completely and utterly sweet.
I like it that we didn't get a confirmation of who the woman in white actually was!
I even enjoyed Matt Smith's scene, gasp! "what was I doing - oh, yes, crashing!" haha.

minor complaint - RTD, you made the Doctor kiss every female companion available, would it really hurt you to make my miserable slasher soul one kiss between Ten and Jack? Bah!

major complaint - Martha and Mickey. No, just no. Feels way too much like either "we wanted to revisit every companion but had no idea what to do with either, so let's throw them in together" or b)getting rid of them. Or both. It just feels so disrespectful, especially for Martha. I wouldn't have minded if there was some sort of a plot build up for it, if it didn't feel so contrived. I did love her hair though!

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 1st, 2010, 12:50 PM
Btw, Mr Smith being like Tennent at the end of the ep, makes sense. He's just regenerated and so may have some residual traits before his new personality comes through. Maybe.


I thought that. It's like DT used some of Eccleston's lines in Christmas Invasion; 'And it is going to be...Fantastic!'

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 12:51 PM
Btw, Mr Smith being like Tennent at the end of the ep, makes sense. He's just regenerated and so may have some residual traits before his new personality comes through. Maybe.
That's true, Dr 10 had some of Dr 9's trait's at the end of his regenerations

Sealurk
January 1st, 2010, 12:58 PM
So, previous Doctors have accepted, even welcomed regeneration, given the circumstances. Not Ten. Could that be why it was so violent? Because it was a slow death, was he actively fighting against it, holding on to see everyone who mattered to him first, but with the regen energy building up inside him almost like it's under pressure?

Arrogance is nothing new for the Doctor. There's been a streak of it through his entire life, some Doctors just exemplify it more than others (Six, Three, One even...and Ten seems to have just about topped the list since Waters of Mars).

As with all other major episodes, I'll have to watch it again to cement my opinion. I think there was a lot to like about EoT2, but also a lot to grumble about. All that build up, and Gallifrey returns for, what, ten minutes? I really hope it isn't as cut and dry as that - maybe a few Time Lords jumped ship in TARDISes as soon as it reappeared?

FOB: Agreed, Journey's End would have been the perfect time for a regeneration. I think there was just too much going on in that story to fit in an entire new Doctor though, and Moffat presumably needs a lot of time to get his Who up and running.

Aerilon
January 1st, 2010, 12:58 PM
I can forgive the Time Lords staying dead because of the revelation of what really happened during the Time War.Killing off all Timelords is one thing, but..

The Doctor and Master escaped. We know how the Doctor did it, we don't know about the Master. Either way, I don't see why we can't have a few other rouge timelords out there somewhere, either with their memories stored in a watch, or just out and around in the galaxy.

The Face of Bo said that the Doctor isn't the last of his kind. I don't know why, but I ain't willing to accept that Bo was on about ONLY the Master. The number of times the Doctor has said "no others survived, I'd know".. Uhm, yeah, cause he knew about the Master, and he knew about all the Daleks that keep popping up, even though they're suppose to be locked away in time too..

He obviously isn't all knowing. I think it would be nice to see a few more surviving timelords. They can't all be evil, even many of those he killed (for better or for worse) I doubt all were corrupt.


I like it that we didn't get a confirmation of who the woman in white actually was!Even though we'll never know. My money is on his mother.

The_Carpenter
January 1st, 2010, 01:25 PM
Complete and utter tosh! The End of Time made no sense...

: Book of Saxon.... WTF?
: Potions of life and the reverse of.... WTF?
: How was the Doctor the Master's saviour?
: Why bring back Donna and have her remember.... and then do bugger all with it?
: So the whole point of Wilf was to force the death of Ten, seriously he did nothing else... ohhh yeah he had visions from some random Time Lady.... which helped how?
: Who was random Time Lady? RTD thought she was important to the point that saying that the outfit she was wearing in part one was important.. really? I don't see how!
: What the hell happened to the Master at the end? did he burn up his energy at the end? or what?
: Martha and Micky..... WTF... Martha can do so much better.

So yeah hated it... roll on Steven Moffat!

edit: ohh yeah and why bother bringing the Timelords back for a 5 minute confrontation with the Doctor just to shove back to whence they came.

Pitry
January 1st, 2010, 01:34 PM
Killing off all Timelords is one thing, but..

The Doctor and Master escaped. We know how the Doctor did it, we don't know about the Master. Either way, I don't see why we can't have a few other rouge timelords out there somewhere, either with their memories stored in a watch, or just out and around in the galaxy.


Although, how many godlike creatures can you have running around the universe?
What I meant was, before this aired, I really wanted the Time Lords to stay alive cos I think that would have given a new dimension to the Doctor's story - we've seen him taking them for granted and disliking them and their stuffy behaviour, we've seen him guilt-ridden and nostalgic about them, but we haven't seen - and prolly not see for a long long time - him having to deal with what he's done while they're actually back. Which is something I really want to see.
But, as I said, I'm willing to forgive them that for the revelation that destroying Gallifrey wasn't done in order to destroy the Daleks, it was done in order to destroy the Time Lords :D


Even though we'll never know. My money is on his mother.

Ah, mine's on his daughter (Susan's mother) actually :D

PMN1
January 1st, 2010, 01:39 PM
I'm waiting for the Asgard to make an appearance.

Pharaoh Atem
January 1st, 2010, 02:00 PM
I'm waiting for the Asgard to make an appearance.

the master ate them already

Reefgirl
January 1st, 2010, 02:09 PM
My money is on that woman being Romana

Pitry
January 1st, 2010, 02:47 PM
My money is on that woman being Romana

That's quite the joy of it, sn't it? we don't know! :D

Matt G
January 1st, 2010, 03:19 PM
1. Were the earlier incarnations of the Doctor always hoping to redeem the Master - it makes sense given what I know the character's history and I liked it.

2. Time Lords - yes RTD has been watching too much Gate.

3. Again though I liked the Doctor and Master being on the same side for once, even if only briefly - what will happen to the Master now though?

4. The revisits....Martha and Mickey...an eyebrow raiser...Captain Jack...fine...Sarah Jane's kid...I needed my niece's help in recognising him as I don't watch SJA...Rose in NYD '05. Was there snow in London that year?

5. First impressions of Smith-Doctor? Have no issues but you can't judge a character on 30 secs of monologue.

Zarius
January 1st, 2010, 03:50 PM
For a start I think Wilf was handled terribly. He was set up to be an old soldier who was yet to fight his key battle, and then what was his role? To get trapped in a bloody cubicle and lead to the Doctor's death. And even the Doctor started slagging him off for that. Wilf should have played a major role in this, not get shafted as he did.

Your expectation-o-meter however probably kept raising the bar to unobjective levels. Most complaints I see about the modern series is that it doesnt give you quite what YOU want.

Wilf helped The Doctor fend off The Master's missles and tested The Doctor's morality. What, you think that he was going to let him sit in there to die?

The Doctor vents exactly what you do in that scene...that the whole prophecy isnt "fair" and not what he thought it would be..but that is what Doctor Who is about.


Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.

He thought the radiation would kill him before he regenerated or kill him during it. He said in the FIRST INSTALMENT that time lords can be killed before they can change, and "Planet of the Spiders" proves this.

Pay attention to the whole story, it might help you.


Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.

They didnt suggest any of that. Seems to me you're making stuff up.


I'm also not happy at all with the introduction of Matt Smith, he was written too similarly to DT in this scene, which I think damaged the moment considerably.

Davies wrote his lines. How you can take that scene and immediatly judge him I don't know, but it's a sign of your typical ignorance.

It didnt damage anything for me. A new Doctor, new adventures, I'm enjoying it.


Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.

The themes of insane Gods and Ascension existed long before Stargate

Davies also despises Stargate


Btw - was it just me, or did the Doctor call the Lord President 'Rassilon'?

Yes, he did. I had to watch it a second time (based on the line he said about the two Time Lords that disagreed with him()

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 1st, 2010, 03:54 PM
Thing is Rassilon was the creator of their way of life, right? Dalton's character may simply be named after the original. That makes sense to me.

Zarius
January 1st, 2010, 04:00 PM
I think we have to assume he's Rassilon. Time and space don't mean much in a time war, they would have recruited him to lead the charge.

As for the Woman, I'm sure she's The Doctor's mother, not Romana, but Davies leaving that unanswered was great, as it leaves lingering mysteries as to The Doctor's origins


edit: ohh yeah and why bother bringing the Timelords back for a 5 minute confrontation with the Doctor just to shove back to whence they came.

To show why they CAN'T come back.

Draygon
January 1st, 2010, 04:01 PM
Thing is Rassilon was the creator of their way of life, right? Dalton's character may simply be named after the original. That makes sense to me.
I actually thought they might have resurrected Rassilon to help lead them in their time of war. He did create the War Games after all and wasn't exactly the nicest Timelord on Gallifrey. He also had rather a twisted sense of humour as he shoed in The Five Doctors. To win is to lose, and he looses wins....

Flyboy
January 1st, 2010, 04:07 PM
Zarius,

You sir, are disgustingly rude.




Your expectation-o-meter however probably kept raising the bar to unobjective levels. Most complaints I see about the modern series is that it doesnt give you quite what YOU want.

Wilf helped The Doctor fend off The Master's missles and tested The Doctor's morality. What, you think that he was going to let him sit in there to die?

The Doctor vents exactly what you do in that scene...that the whole prophecy isnt "fair" and not what he thought it would be..but that is what Doctor Who is about.

I generally very much enjoy 'New Who' and when I complain about an episode, I do so for the same reason I complain about any other episode. Maybe my expectations were to high, or maybe they were just different. Either way, I didn't enjoy this episode any where near as much as I should do. Are you suggesting I am at fault for that?

In my opinion, Wilf had been built up through his experiences with the anonymous woman and the chat with the Doctor in the cafe, to be gearing towards him physically doing something important, not just be the person the Doctor dies saving. That was how I interpreted it.





He thought the radiation would kill him before he regenerated or kill him during it. He said in the FIRST INSTALMENT that time lords can be killed before they can change, and "Planet of the Spiders" proves this.



Pay attention to the whole story, it might help you.


Again - you are incredibly rude. Yes I am aware that he thought the radiation would kill him, I am however referring to his attitude when he KNEW that he was going to regenerate. I did pay attention to the whole story, so BACK THE HELL OF SIR.




They didnt suggest any of that. Seems to me you're making stuff up.

I perhaps didn't make myself as clear as I could do. But if YOU had paid attention in the previous episode, it is suggested by the Doctor that regeneration IS like dying, because the person that walks away, might have his memories, but it isn't HIM. This flies imo, in the fact of what's already been established, even within New Who. It's the same damn guy, not someone different who just has his memories and his name.




Davies wrote his lines. How you can take that scene and immediatly judge him I don't know, but it's a sign of your typical ignorance.

It didnt damage anything for me. A new Doctor, new adventures, I'm enjoying it.


I WASN'T judging. If you READ my post properly sir, you would realise that actually I was saying that I wasn't impressed by the scene. I am looking forward to Doc 11, because I BELIEVE what I've read that he will be a different enough Doctor to be interesting. However, THIS scene didn't convey that, and I was dissapointed by this.




The themes of insane Gods and Ascension existed long before Stargate

Davies also despises Stargate


Yes. Fine. Of course. But you CANNOT deny the similarities, even through phraseology. Did I claim 'rip off!' ? No I did not. But it was very much a Stargate-esque moment. I didn't say that was a bad thing mind you.

Jonzey
January 1st, 2010, 04:26 PM
I was disappointed. Sure, I was entertained, but it just seems like RTD's big epic episodes consist of a few major plot points hastily tied together with 'science'. In fact, a little research and I came across his early notes on writing this episode...

Russycake's list of Dr Who End of Time awesome bits:
1. More The Master- but Lightning Shooty!
2. Wilf. People like Wilf.
3. Everyone else.
4. Like, six million billion trillion more The Masters.
5. Making Timelords evil and bringing them back but then not.
6. REGENERATION.
7. Laser Spaceship!
8. DALEKS VS CYBERMEN!!!.... oh wait, I already done that. oops.

So The Master comes back, and then is all Lightning Shooty, then some guys capture him and give him a machine to make like a million billion trillion The Masters. Oh, and Wilf is there, and Donna is around. And then the Timelords are coming back cos of science and four beeps but now they're evil so the Doctor sends them away again after flying the LASER SPACESHIP and jumping into the building. Then someones gonna die so he sacrifices himself, but only after he says goodbye to Everyone Else (like, Martha and Mickey and Donna and Sarah Jane and that kid from that show she has and Rose and Jack... Also the Cybermen turn up but the Daleks also show up and they fight! Then REGENERATION but an epic explodey one. The End.

Shipperahoy
January 1st, 2010, 04:54 PM
There's a difference between a civil debate and sniping back and forth. Please keep to discussing the show and keep the personal comments out of it. Remember that opinions are just that OPINIONS and thus not right nor wrong. You can challenge an opinion and discuss it but flat out telling someone their wrong isn't exactly conducive to discussion. Remember, we all see things differently based upon our own perspectives.

Smegger56
January 1st, 2010, 04:56 PM
The doctor is the doctor, no matter what. But it can also be perceived as a different person. Thats what makes doctor who such a great character. I can understand what he says. Unlike previous Doctors, as far as i'm aware, they didn't know that they would have to regenerate. No 10 does. He's had all this time tho think about it. Each personality of the doctor is ever so different. For me, his reaction makes sense considering he knew it was going to happen.

striker7770
January 1st, 2010, 05:31 PM
i kinda liked it, especially the last 10 "goodbye minutes". The master played his part really well, from powerhungry, to begging for mercy, then revenge.

I wished the donna line went a lot further, im guessing she still dosnt remember but she didnt die?

The wilf storyline went well, but it seemed stretched out in someparts, like the gun scene, great emotion, no pace.

After watching the trailer for the new season, im very dissapointed, the whole trailer seemed too theatrical, more like a c rated sci-fi channel movie starring stephen baldwin then the show it should be. (check it out, stephen baldwin is in like 5 sci fi movies).

The worst part of the whole year was definitly matt smith at the last minute of the whole thing, i thought the regeneration was perfect, until the kid just comes in a crashes the party like a drunken frat boy.

finally, anybody know if there is going to be a soundtrack for this year, i can get rid of the slow singing voice during the goodbye scene

Joachim
January 1st, 2010, 05:43 PM
Are you suggesting I am at fault for that?
Generally when the reasoning is primarily subjective, emotional, by nature then yes that is the case.

However in this particular instance, your logic is relatively sound and I do wish that Wilfred had done a little bit more.

But, at the same time, the way it was done was interesting; what if ultimately that was the entire point? To build up to something, only to have it simmer down in the end? In essence the momentum, the energy, was transferred from Wilfred to The Doctor.


This flies imo, in the fact of what's already been established, even within New Who. It's the same damn guy, not someone different who just has his memories and his name.
To be blunt, your opinion seems derived more from a badly defined perception of what a "person" is. He has a new personality, a new body, simply with the same memories. That could easily be called becoming a new person, particularly when you consider the 10th doctors later vanity in which he could see it as death because ultimately it wouldn't be him anymore, and couldn't possibly be as good.

Puddle-Jumper
January 1st, 2010, 05:52 PM
Just rewatching it there and Im kinda a bit angry at RTD... cos there was huge build up to the timelords return and in my mind it was going to totally change things for the new series.. especially since the doctor said that the timelords changed at the end of the war... and it was just snapped away again in a heartbeat..... and I was so excited about the drums being explained... heart beat of a timelord and all that jazz, it was perfect... I just wish it was left with the Doctor saying something along the lines of 'this fractured the time lock'.. 'timelords not gone for good'... something!.... (which would also allow for the return of the Daleks and what not.. though that could be easily worked in next season I suppose... Steven Moffet will no doubt do a good job of it

I wish something better had been done with Donna too... that she remembered, figured out a way for her to live without burning up for a short period of time, helped the doctor and she died at the end maybe, my understanding is that Steven Moffet isn't going to be looking for previous companions back again anyway... (John Barrowman said in an interview that he hasn't been asked back and he didn't expect to be)

and the time lady not being explained was just downright odd...

SaberBlade
January 1st, 2010, 06:15 PM
I loved it, but I did think that parts did drag on. At times it just seemed to go on for longer than it should have. I did enjoy seeing what people were doing, like Martha and Mickey, Jack, the granddaughter of the woman he loved from WWI, I think the Sarah Jane bit wasn't needed but was worth seeing in her recognise what was wrong and of course Captain Jack (even throwing in Alonso from the Titanic was a nice past reference).

I think these scenes were important just because we may never see these characters again (according to the Confidential based for this episode).

I will need to rewatch the episode at some point. I was distracted for a split second near the end and could swear I saw a Boba Fett'ish character walking past the screen when meeting Jack. I noticed the stargate references, such as Time Lord's looking to Ascend when being the most powerful race who are facing extinction and of course, the Immortality "Gate". Even having a person dressed in white who appeared to be an Acended version of who I would assume to be the Doctor's mother (just my theory though)

carno
January 1st, 2010, 06:45 PM
so Rassilon's glove...... wasn't the TW glove one of a pair?? Maybe that was the other one.

carno
January 1st, 2010, 06:53 PM
got the feeling that the timelord woman was either the doctors wife or Donna, because Wilf asked the doctor who the woman was and he looked over to Donna in her wedding dress. Maybe at some point Donna becomes a timelord due to her meta crisis and when she dies as a human she regenerats, some how travles back in time and joins the time war?? I don't know he looked at her for some reason, other wise they wouldn't of put it in the episode. Just somthing really small I picked up on. Also who was the other timelord that opposed Rassilon and the other timelords???

SGalisa
January 1st, 2010, 07:42 PM
about the regeneration bit...
based on what I've read about some of the comments thinking #11 showing up was too much like #10 finding out about himself -- well, if I'm reading this as I think it has happened, that's what most of the other Doctor's selves have done -- meaning the ones we've been allowed to actually witness upon the arrival of the new actor in the new Doctor's *body*. They all have discovered what nuances were different about their new body. Be it hair, teeth, a musical interest (#2) or cricket (#5), they've all changed and taken a look-see at what they've now become (next).

I'm going to take a guess at what happened, because I haven't seen it yet--


Frankly, I'm going to put down the stupid opinion of regeneration that Doc 10 appeared to have down to the fact that he'd become a bit of a tw*t. Egostical and arrogant. Liked himself too much. I highly doubt any of the other Doctor's felt the same - heck Doc 10 even talked about his previous selves as simply being 'him being young' in Time Crash.

awww.. seriously? He's always been a bit above "himselves" :D
I think he said as much in a Peter Davidson episode..
#2 and 3 Doctors once got into a heated debate over which of each other was the more important one.. (it was considered *campy* stuff in those days =)
I'm fairly certain that Doctor #4 very much liked himself, too. It was part of his character's *persona* to behave that way, at times.. and it usually always worked by having the audience rolling their eyes and shaking their head in sheer disbelief from him actually thinking that way.. :D



As I mentioned earlier, this time round it seemed different. Normally, the impression I got was that they regenerate, get a new body, new feelings and emotions and what not, but are essentially the same person.

Now it makes it seem as though, after each regeneration, its a totally new person, but with the same memories.

that's historically true. Same memories, different body and personality. Doctor #1 made that possible because of a real life event, and ever since that fateful day, it's become a trademark of the series. Good, bad, or whatever mood the Doctor shows up as, he's still the same core *Being*.


The doctor is the doctor, no matter what.
... Unlike previous Doctors, as far as i'm aware, they didn't know that they would have to regenerate.

Actually, some of them (previous Doctor versions) did know. Watch Tom Baker's (Doctor # 4) last episode. I found it quite emotional from knowing that was the last of Doctor # 4.
The regeneration was hidden in the background, thruout the entire episode. -- and it was another "MASTER" story, too, if I remember correctly -- The Doctor knew his time was short and ending soon, in that particular "body".. He as much hinted and said so, before he left.

And it was also one of the more rarer moments when *whovians* got to actually see some sort of regeneration process actually occur -- which is different from Doctor's 9 & 10.. with 9 & 10, I think it is assumed that such visualizations occurred all the time. The regenerations were, in fact, not always seen.. so when # 9 changed into 10, it was a unique novelty and better done than #2 into 3 and 4 changing into # 5.. :)

And I think Tom Baker's Doctor made his own awareness of his impending *death* cycle have more of an impact, just from what happened (for those who haven't seen -- do watch the episode to find out..). Was the name of the episode "Logopolis"..?
(I'm too lazy to drag out the book of ep titles)


4. Err... why did the Tardis start falling apart? Though my theory is because the Doctor is trying to fight the regeneration and the Tardis is reacting to the turmoil within him.

interesting theory.. and one that I had thought of, but went with the remodeling idea instead. Either way, could be what happens.. or it could be from some other reason.. The TARDIS is getting older and breaking down more frequently too? *who* knows.. :D


The one thing that I will most likely miss is the beautifully powerful music sequences. I'm going to guess with the new everything, the music will change, as well.. :(

Replicator Todd
January 1st, 2010, 09:38 PM
I loved this episode, and I'm a bit sad. This episode had me very emotional. I was completely surprised by who really was knocking four times. I really enjoyed seeing past companions and creatures! Although some of it was a bit confusing. Goodbye, David Tennant, I will miss you. Matt Smith has big shoes to fill, and I think he is going to be just fine. :)

EDIT: Oh yeah and I was happy the Time Lords aren't really back.

PMN1
January 2nd, 2010, 01:05 AM
I wonder what The Doctor would have done if Wilf had only tapped two or three times?

Reefgirl
January 2nd, 2010, 01:42 AM
That's quite the joy of it, sn't it? we don't know! :D
In written canon Romana was President, with a bit of twisting she could have been on the council

DigiFluid
January 2nd, 2010, 01:56 AM
Pretty disappointed with Part 2, to be honest.

Who/what was accelerating the development of the Ood?; the Time Lord/Gallifrey thing was totally botched; there was no reason for Wilf to knock 4 times after being told by the Doctor that's how he knew it would be time for him to die; the Doctor didn't die, just regenerated; the whole gun thing was pointless, his screwdriver could've done it; there's no explanation as to who the woman was or why she was appearing to Wilf; Donna's appearance/remembering things was totally wasted; Mickey/Martha WTF + why the hell was there a Sontaran on Earth?; while a great exit for John Simm's Master, the Master (a longstanding Who villain!!) is now trapped in the Time Lock; if the Time Lords were awaiting a 4-beat response signal, why didn't they detect it when the Master was blasting it across the Earth for a year back in series 29?

Didn't much like Matt Smith's introduction either. Someone earlier in this thread said it was a bit like a frat boy showing up and crashing the party--I thought that was a perfect way of putting it. I'm still keeping an open mind for him as the regular, since I didn't like DT by the end of Christmas Invasion either, but my first impression was quite negative.

Good freaking riddance, RTD. David Tennant was and is awesome, and you just wasted his send-off. Bring on Stephen Moffatt, please.

Ian-S
January 2nd, 2010, 03:01 AM
post drinking session now :)
can't really add much to what's already been written, I know crazy God like beings who want to/have ascend is pre-Stargate, but to take the exact same premise, description, and saying from Stargate is one thing, but to then slag off Stargate like the way RTD has (especially when the expected replacement for Tennant snubbed them and joined SG:U) just smacks of hypocrisy.

A few plot twists but the whole episode seems like RTD had written the end first then looked around to see what ideas he could use from other shows, I was disappointed in there being no explanation for the Ode, no explanation for the hand device either, oh I could go on, the woman should have been explained in a better way (all Tennant had to do was mutter "mum" or something - even RTD admits on the podcast she was a plot device and he had no idea who she was really).

One thing the podcast does tell you is RTD only wrote the episode up to the point of regeneration, Moffatt wrote the part after regeneration, so if the Doctor's acting isn't liked (or too familar to DT), you actually have Moffatt to blame not RTD.

The best part of the episode was the conversation between Wilf and the Doctor on the ship.

Oh and I see in the trailers the new Doctor's companion is a Police Woman, haven't we already had this "Police Woman see's secret squirrel crap and follows leads and finds alien stuff" storyline before? I hope that's not an indication that Moffatt intends to recycle every old Who/Torchwood story.

Oh one last thing, I saw it discussed before somewhere whether EoT was pre or post CoE, EoT is POST Children of Earth (explained by Jack being on the space station and RTD in the podcast).

Flyboy
January 2nd, 2010, 03:09 AM
Pretty disappointed with Part 2, to be honest.

Who/what was accelerating the development of the Ood?; the Time Lord/Gallifrey thing was totally botched; there was no reason for Wilf to knock 4 times after being told by the Doctor that's how he knew it would be time for him to die; the Doctor didn't die, just regenerated; the whole gun thing was pointless, his screwdriver could've done it; there's no explanation as to who the woman was or why she was appearing to Wilf; Donna's appearance/remembering things was totally wasted; Mickey/Martha WTF + why the hell was there a Sontaran on Earth?; while a great exit for John Simm's Master, the Master (a longstanding Who villain!!) is now trapped in the Time Lock; if the Time Lords were awaiting a 4-beat response signal, why didn't they detect it when the Master was blasting it across the Earth for a year back in series 29?

Didn't much like Matt Smith's introduction either. Someone earlier in this thread said it was a bit like a frat boy showing up and crashing the party--I thought that was a perfect way of putting it. I'm still keeping an open mind for him as the regular, since I didn't like DT by the end of Christmas Invasion either, but my first impression was quite negative.

Good freaking riddance, RTD. David Tennant was and is awesome, and you just wasted his send-off. Bring on Stephen Moffatt, please.
I agree with EVERYTHING that you have said here.

I'm not an RTD 'hater', he deserves a lot of credit as producer, but as a writer I don't appreciate him. He frankly reminds me of a fanfiction writer - his stories have that level of quality to me.

Let's take New Who S2 for example, all the fantastic episodes like Impossible Planet, or School Reunion, WEREN'T RTD, instead he delivered us the attrocious Army of Ghosts with it's horrifically fanwanky battle between Daleks and Cybermen - seriously, this is the sort of crap you get in forums *looks around - ah...* where fans like to argue about 'who would win???1' it may be amusing to discuss, but it should NOT be brought onto screen, it's tacky. He's also responsible for that damn ending of Doomsday with Rose. Ergh. Oh we can also blame him for Love and Monsters.

Runaway Bride? Atrocious. Honestly awful with the exception of the scene where the Doctor actually kills the Racnos.

Don't get me wrong, he's also done some GREAT stuff. Sound of Drums trilogy, Midnight, Turn Left, Journey's End, brilliant. But ultimatly, he's written the WORST stuff. Furthermore, and I WILL say this - he does still manage to ruin GREAT episodes with some utter ******** concepts. Did we really need the love story with Rose? What about turning the Doctor into Dobby? *sigh*

I also think this whole Time War think has been dragged on too long... essentially ALL of the finale's have been, in some way, about the Time War. I get it's been an important theme, and it's a GOOD concept. But there was no need for it all the time.

I think that RTD just likes big and shiny, and thinks that equates to 'epic'. If it's not moving Earth across time and space, it's turning everyone on Earth into the Master. Some of the best Doctor Who stories imo are lower scale.

But hey, what do I know.

Other than the fact that DT has, wrongly, imo, been put on a pedastle when he is no different to any other actor who has played the Doctor. I AM looking forward to the new era, because even if Matt Smith isn't great, I think the writing will be fantastic.

If it's true that the reason we saw the gang at the end is because we won't ever see them again - good. The only two of those imo that should be revisited are Sarah Jane, and Jack Harkness.

Kidwizz
January 2nd, 2010, 03:11 AM
After seen the 2010 preview

THE WEEPING ANGELS ARE BACK!!!

Vampires?? (Cashing in on Twilight anyone?)
Daleks (but I got the impression that it was a 'dud' dalek

I'm really looking forward to Matt Smith's Doctor

Yep. indeed they are!

Yeah twilight here we come :/

There was two daleks, the black one 11 hit and then a white one.

Also... river song anyone?

I cant wait for him!

Flyboy
January 2nd, 2010, 03:17 AM
Yep. indeed they are!

Yeah twilight here we come :/

There was two daleks, the black one 11 hit and then a white one.

Also... river song anyone?

I cant wait for him!
Vampires does not equate to Twilight - believe it or not, Vampires were around long before those damn movies/books. Besides, Twilight is about 'sexy' vampires - these vamps don't look all that sexy.

PMN1
January 2nd, 2010, 04:11 AM
Vampires does not equate to Twilight - believe it or not, Vampires were around long before those damn movies/books.

I liked the 90's TV series 'Ultraviolet'....too bad they only made 6 episodes.

Reefgirl
January 2nd, 2010, 05:49 AM
I agree with EVERYTHING that you have said here.

I'm not an RTD 'hater', he deserves a lot of credit as producer, but as a writer I don't appreciate him. He frankly reminds me of a fanfiction writer - his stories have that level of quality to me.

Let's take New Who S2 for example, all the fantastic episodes like Impossible Planet, or School Reunion, WEREN'T RTD, instead he delivered us the attrocious Army of Ghosts with it's horrifically fanwanky battle between Daleks and Cybermen - seriously, this is the sort of crap you get in forums *looks around - ah...* where fans like to argue about 'who would win???1' it may be amusing to discuss, but it should NOT be brought onto screen, it's tacky. He's also responsible for that damn ending of Doomsday with Rose. Ergh. Oh we can also blame him for Love and Monsters.

Runaway Bride? Atrocious. Honestly awful with the exception of the scene where the Doctor actually kills the Racnos.

Don't get me wrong, he's also done some GREAT stuff. Sound of Drums trilogy, Midnight, Turn Left, Journey's End, brilliant. But ultimatly, he's written the WORST stuff. Furthermore, and I WILL say this - he does still manage to ruin GREAT episodes with some utter ******** concepts. Did we really need the love story with Rose? What about turning the Doctor into Dobby? *sigh*

I also think this whole Time War think has been dragged on too long... essentially ALL of the finale's have been, in some way, about the Time War. I get it's been an important theme, and it's a GOOD concept. But there was no need for it all the time.

I think that RTD just likes big and shiny, and thinks that equates to 'epic'. If it's not moving Earth across time and space, it's turning everyone on Earth into the Master. Some of the best Doctor Who stories imo are lower scale.

But hey, what do I know.

Other than the fact that DT has, wrongly, imo, been put on a pedastle when he is no different to any other actor who has played the Doctor. I AM looking forward to the new era, because even if Matt Smith isn't great, I think the writing will be fantastic.

If it's true that the reason we saw the gang at the end is because we won't ever see them again - good. The only two of those imo that should be revisited are Sarah Jane, and Jack Harkness.
In spoiler tags for length of post

I agree with everything you've said, RTD has spoiled some perfectly good ideas with some really crap writing. I think you'll also find that alot of the DT/Pedastle putting stuff has been done by David Tennant fan's rather than Dr Who fan's. Don't get me wrong I think David Tennant is an outstanding actor and can play emotion really well (anyone see him in Hamlet?) but I don't think he's the Best Doctor EVAH!!! that honour is jointly given to Tom Baker and Chris Ecclestone. The sad thing is I've heard a number of people say they're not going to watch Dr Who anymore now that David Tennant's left, it's a shame that people have not bothered to follow a show properly but just watch because the lead actor is hot

Reefgirl
January 2nd, 2010, 05:53 AM
Vampires does not equate to Twilight - believe it or not, Vampires were around long before those damn movies/books. Besides, Twilight is about 'sexy' vampires - these vamps don't look all that sexy.
That's true but there's no denying that Vampire's are in at the moment and everyone is getting in on the act, so why should DW be any different

Flyboy
January 2nd, 2010, 05:59 AM
In spoiler tags for length of post

I agree with everything you've said, RTD has spoiled some perfectly good ideas with some really crap writing. I think you'll also find that alot of the DT/Pedastle putting stuff has been done by David Tennant fan's rather than Dr Who fan's. Don't get me wrong I think David Tennant is an outstanding actor and can play emotion really well (anyone see him in Hamlet?) but I don't think he's the Best Doctor EVAH!!! that honour is jointly given to Tom Baker and Chris Ecclestone. The sad thing is I've heard a number of people say they're not going to watch Dr Who anymore now that David Tennant's left, it's a shame that people have not bothered to follow a show properly but just watch because the lead actor is hot
Agreed.

And in addition, how could I have forgotten the Giant Stay Puft Marshmallow Cyber Man rampaging through London? Or the Doctor rescuing someone's son, instead of helping him find the strength to step up and be a hero himself. Or how about Martha becoming the legend, in Sound of Drums.

In any case, you're also right about the fans. My ex used to call them the 'berets' because there was a bunch of them in berets who turned up to every event with DT in, and once actually practically mauled him outside - ever seen 'Singing In The Rain'? Just like happened to Don Lockwood at the start of that. And it IS a shame, because, yes, I've really enjoyed DT's Doctor, there IS something magical about him. But as you said? Is he 'teh best doctah evah???' no, I wouldn't say so. I personally still prefer Peter Davison and Paul McGann over him any day.

Aerilon
January 2nd, 2010, 07:16 AM
If it's true that the reason we saw the gang at the end is because we won't ever see them again - good. The only two of those imo that should be revisited are Sarah Jane, and Jack Harkness.I have read this rumour elsewhere too, and I believe it to be true, at least with respect to Doctor Who. Sarah Jane and Cpt Jack may see each other again, though a Gay Immortal in a Children's show isn't the best of ideas...

Suffice to say, the new Who show is suppose to seperate itself from the past, and as such, I don't expect to be seeing any of our beloved companions again. I'm not quite sure whether this is a good or bad thing, but they will be missed (some more than others, for sure).

Flyboy
January 2nd, 2010, 07:22 AM
I have read this rumour elsewhere too, and I believe it to be true, at least with respect to Doctor Who. Sarah Jane and Cpt Jack may see each other again, though a Gay Immortal in a Children's show isn't the best of ideas...

Suffice to say, the new Who show is suppose to seperate itself from the past, and as such, I don't expect to be seeing any of our beloved companions again. I'm not quite sure whether this is a good or bad thing, but they will be missed (some more than others, for sure).
I can easily do without seeing Rose or Martha again.

Jack is the only one that is really a requirement to come back in my books.

Wouldn't mind it if the Doctor met up with some others such as the Brigadier, Sgt Benton, or Harry Sullivan again though.

Jonzey
January 2nd, 2010, 07:36 AM
I can easily do without seeing Rose or Martha again.

Jack is the only one that is really a requirement to come back in my books.

Wouldn't mind it if the Doctor met up with some others such as the Brigadier, Sgt Benton, or Harry Sullivan again though.

I reckon that's more likely. From what I've seen so far, with the trailer and the new logo, it looks like new Who is going to be a bit more in line with old Who rather than current Who. I think there's a fair few two-part episodes next season as well, which could end up more like the earlier serials starting with a slow build rather than trying to keep up a fast pace throughout. I think RTD one too many times went with what he thought kids would find cool, regardless of whether it would make a good story.

PMN1
January 2nd, 2010, 07:55 AM
there was no reason for Wilf to knock 4 times after being told by the Doctor that's how he knew it would be time for him to die;

They should have had him suddenly realising what he had done with a horrified look on his face.

Reefgirl
January 2nd, 2010, 08:21 AM
In any case, you're also right about the fans. My ex used to call them the 'berets' because there was a bunch of them in berets who turned up to every event with DT in, and once actually practically mauled him outside - ever seen 'Singing In The Rain'? Just like happened to Don Lockwood at the start of that. And it IS a shame, because, yes, I've really enjoyed DT's Doctor, there IS something magical about him. But as you said? Is he 'teh best doctah evah???' no, I wouldn't say so. I personally still prefer Peter Davison and Paul McGann over him any day.

The people at the RSC put out a request that fan's of Dr Who and Star Trek not to bring DW and ST memoribilia to the theater for the stars to sign, it seems a shame that people only went to see Hamlet for DT and PS and not the play. Hamlet is not one of my favourite plays but I did hear him in a radio production of Much Ado About Nothing, he played Benedick, but I'd rather watch Kenneth Brannagh play him.

mjwalshe
January 2nd, 2010, 08:25 AM
Vampires does not equate to Twilight - believe it or not, Vampires were around long before those damn movies/books. Besides, Twilight is about 'sexy' vampires - these vamps don't look all that sexy.

still like sancturys take on the whole sexy vamps. :-)

"French Candian Rock and Roll"

Replicator Todd
January 2nd, 2010, 10:10 AM
Well, regardless of what everyone says I liked RTD's episodes alot.....but I can't wait for what Moffat brings. The End of Time could of had more, but I was still satisfied with the way it went. Although I kinda wish the Doctor DID die, and somehow another Doctor was brought about. I didn't understand Martha and Mickey at all, alternate universe maybe?

DigiFluid
January 2nd, 2010, 12:49 PM
I can't totally fault RTD, there's a number of his episodes that I quite liked: The End of the World, New Earth, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, Utopia/Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords. But I am very tired of the massive gimmick to solve each big plot.

Matt G
January 2nd, 2010, 02:32 PM
I have read this rumour elsewhere too, and I believe it to be true, at least with respect to Doctor Who. Sarah Jane and Cpt Jack may see each other again, though a Gay Immortal in a Children's show isn't the best of ideas...

Suffice to say, the new Who show is suppose to seperate itself from the past, and as such, I don't expect to be seeing any of our beloved companions again. I'm not quite sure whether this is a good or bad thing, but they will be missed (some more than others, for sure).

I'm not sure if you were trying to be homophobic but you certainly came accross that way. I don't watch SJA myself but any kids watching it would already know Jack from Who so his homosexuality is a bit of a non-issue.

Still, the way Torchwood played out I don't expect Jack to be swinging by Earth any time soon anyway!

DigiFluid
January 2nd, 2010, 02:34 PM
Still, the way Torchwood played out I don't expect Jack to be swinging by Earth any time soon anyway!
As far as I know, series 4 is in the pipe.

JRDTECH
January 2nd, 2010, 02:41 PM
I rather enjoyed the episode. It answered why the Master is the way is he is. We learned more about what happened in the last day of the time war. But mostly it was about the Doctor and in the end he sacrificed himself to same one person. And the doctor got his reward by saying goodbye and saving his friends one last time as the Doctor they knew him as.

Also someone mentioned that the 5 specials were just a vehicle leading to the Doctors "death". Remember in all the series there was always underlying seeds placed that would lead to something at the end. Series 1: who/what is Bad Wolf, Series 2: Rose's "death", Series 3: You are not Alone, Series 4: Return of Rose.

Pitry
January 2nd, 2010, 05:13 PM
I guess it's official then, RTD simply writes his episodes for me and disregards anyone else's opinion!

:D

Seriously, my least favourite RTD episode is New Earth and I still really love it.

Pharaoh Atem
January 2nd, 2010, 06:07 PM
Brilliant way to send 10 off :D i'm going to love matt smith

Stargate Atlantis Girl
January 2nd, 2010, 06:14 PM
I just watched this epispde, and although it was a REALLY good episode, the only reason i HATE it, is because the Doctor dies......er regenirates. I'm gonna miss him :( The ending was really sad, when he goes to visit people, and what made it especially sad was that Rose was the last person he visited :(

badwolfSG
January 2nd, 2010, 06:38 PM
Not the best DT epidsode but I not the worst either... The whole "mystery Women" didn't really get explaned. I thought Martha and Micky as a couple was really great, they both needed someone. I loved how The doctor went back into time to see Rose, one last goodbye. I personally thought from the last end of series 4 to know Donna had a lame storyline, they could have done something better for her, should have done.... The 10th doctor last line was done... I don't know if it was the perfect last line, I liked it, but I don't know it was missing something.

Now on to 11. I'm really looking forward to Matt. I just saw a perview of the new season and it looked really nice. Can't wait till Spring to see it!!! The only hard thing I'm going to have to get use to is The 11th doctor calling himself the "the doctor." I'm so use to DT, Chris was only on one season and DT have been the doctor so long it gonna be hard getting use to someone with a new face calling themself the doctor.

MasySyma
January 2nd, 2010, 06:50 PM
After Part 1, I had my bar set very, very low, and this half was wonderful.

I loved so many things about this episode, so I'll start with the hotly debated ones:

Martha and Mickey. It works, and it's quite cute. I wasn't that pleased with her sudden engagement to Tom, and with both Torchwood and Unit in various states of disrepair, corruption, confusion, etc., I can accept that both of them work freelance. I also liked that the Doctor saved her life, given how many times Martha saved him. Also, her hair had grown an awful lot between her last visit and that scene, nothing says the Doctor didn't save her in the future.

Donna. I love that the Doctor left her defended, so while I agree that her presence was too brief, it was nice to see her again. I loved the touch with the lottery ticket and her Mother.

The Master. I liked his redemption. He may (or may not) be gone for good, but I enjoyed seeing the Master and Doctor on the same side.

The NEW Doctor. The scene was fine. It was a bit goofy, but so was DT's. I would ask anyone fretting about the scene to go pull up the threads for when 9 became 10. We were all like "Who is that skinny guy going on about teeth? I don't know if I can do this. He just muttered crap about Barcelona and then looked goofy." It worked out fine, and this will too. I'll comment on the trailer in the appropriate place, but I look forward to the new season.

Jack and Midshipman Frame. I don't care what RTD said in interviews. He lies to the press. We all know this. Jack was in a bar in space, therefore, he has to be in there after COE. Therefore, Ianto is dead, and we don't know how much time has passed. What comfort can the Doctor offer him? He can't give Jack what he wants, so he gave him some solace/comfort/distration. I was impressed that he gave him what he needed, given he was not involved with the COE events. If the Doctor has had adventures between specials, we can assume that they might have spoken somewhere other than the Series 4 finale.

Ten's ending. I liked it. I loved the music for him from the Ood, and I enjoyed seeing him say goodbye.

The Tardis on fire. It makes sense. Other version of the Doctor weren't fighting their change, and they may or may not have had something to lose. 9 was protecting Rose, for example. Ten has nothing to lose; he's angry, and he can be self-indulgent, and we get a new phone box that looks a bit less porta-potty with a new interior look. I can handle it.

The meh:

Rose. I'm not that fond of her. Billie Piper has changed too much physically, so she didn't look even remotely 2005, but I can let it go. It made sense.

The beginning did drag a bit, but I just wish Part 1 hadn't felt so long. The problem was made worse by BBC America. They just threw the commercials in and destroyed emotional sequences at least twice. They also held the trailer hostage in a desperate attempt to make us watch Demons.

Overall, I'll give it a 9/10 because I wish the front half hadn't been so bad. I wasn't looking forward to this episode because many of the specials have been so weak (I only liked the Water of Mars.) I'll stay up to see it again, and I look forward to the new Doctor and where the show will go now.

I'm not an RTD hater, but I have gotten tired of many of his tropes and comic winks that are more like unfunny sledgehammers, so I am happy to see Moffat give us new stories. But I stayed up ridiculously late to watch my first regeneration again as 9 became 10, and I am more than willing to sacrifice a little sleep now for one of my favorite shows.

Pharaoh Atem
January 2nd, 2010, 07:05 PM
the onyl part i didn't get was the book signing who was that woman>?

MasySyma
January 2nd, 2010, 07:10 PM
the onyl part i didn't get was the book signing who was that woman>?

Nurse Joan's great grand daughter; Joan is in Human Nature/Family of Blood

spinny magee
January 2nd, 2010, 07:11 PM
.......the series is doomed, without Tennant it's screwed apparently he's been voted best doctor ever, according to some suspicous site I have never seen before.

Down to buisness umm

Likes: 2nd last scene where he is saying goodbye
.Those humpty dumpty people back (sontarans I think)
.Doctor finally uses a gun
.Time lords YAY
.That guy from Hot Fuzz as that time lord dude
.Doctor going back to say hi to Rose
.Total Lol at the whole of chinas army being the master....I would say something smart about that but it wouldn't be right
.Doctor thinking he was a girl
.LOL at cheating in the lottery
.Jack being in a bar....I imagine he would be a nice fellow being a drunkard
.Although I do mention the "I don't get it" in the mickey/martha...gun happy couple seems nice...just like Mr and Mrs Smith......wait if Martha took up Mickeys last name......doesn't that REALLY make them mr and mrs smith?!?!

Dislikes: Total WTH at those pointless Cactus people
.Doctor screwing his people
.Mickey/Martha or whatever her name is married, I just don't get it
.No daleks :( should of shown a dalek/time lord battle scene imo
.The old dude HAVING to get trapped, can't he have oh I dunno NOT DONE THAT
.Cactus people not being killed off
.Lack of old friends helping out
.Oh and Did I mention the cactus's...oh sorry the proper term is Cactii
.The lameness of Matt White came close or did destroy the tardis

And finally, the biggest moment.....Matt White.....umm yeah...I hope he gets a new suit, because he looked kind of...well weird with Tennants suit (yeah I know it will change just saying)

They say don't judge a book by it's cover.....unfortunately I have to in this case I have little confidence in Matt White........besides he doesn't have the doctors good looks

Gonna watch 1 maybe 2 episodes but I have lost hope, it's just not the same.....I almost broke down crying after seeing The Doctor thinking he was a girl...and when he turned into White

Although I think that woman the Doctor noticed with the Time lords was his mother.

Oh and I noticed a mistake the Old Dude knocked 16 times!

SGalisa
January 2nd, 2010, 07:13 PM
finally got to see it! and I quite liked it. Not sure about *loving* it, but I did enjoy it .. especially seeing Gallifrey as (spoofing real life) Earth's near Apophis crashing into it. Cleverly done..

and all of the spoilers past didn't influence my thoughts at all from watching.
Yeeeehaw! bobbin' up and down and all around in the turret scenes.. oh my!! :D


Well, regardless of what everyone says I liked RTD's episodes alot.....but I can't wait for what Moffat brings. The End of Time could of had more, but I was still satisfied with the way it went.
ditto.. except some of the ending send off sequences were a bit strange.


Although I kinda wish the Doctor DID die, and somehow another Doctor was brought about.
I will say that some of the running (viewer) ideas speculating behind the Doctor's impending *death* were quite interesting.


I didn't understand Martha and Mickey at all, alternate universe maybe?

I don't think so. They were both holding hands after the last defeat of the Daleks eppy. So, as Mickey said--
basically he severed all romantic connections with Rose, and started a new life elsewhere -- one with Martha.

So, it wasn't entirely unexpected based on and from that particular moment in time.


Anywho.. =) Watching the marathon of eps (on BBC-America) put too much info overload in.. Donna's not the only one. 48-hours non-stop.. owwwwwwww..
..but now I've got tons of several DW music themes dancing in my mind for a little while.. ;)

Oh, I will definitely miss the music. :( That is one area the has greatly improved over the years (and that includes all the way back to the very beginning of the entire series in 1963.. =)



I rather enjoyed the episode. It answered why the Master is the way is he is.

That's the part I didn't quite understand. Rassilon said the Master was diseased, but the Time Lords made him that way. The question is *why*.
And don't think for a moment that the Master is gone-gone.. he's earned the reputation for being DW's version of being Ming-the-Merciless. :p


I just watched this epispde, and although it was a REALLY good episode, the only reason i HATE it, is because the Doctor dies......er regenirates.

yep, that's the Doctor (so far).. all of them. :D
well, except for the few actors (as the Doctor's various selves) who weren't able to show their regeneration sequences.


I'm gonna miss him :( The ending was really sad, when he goes to visit people, and what made it especially sad was that Rose was the last person he visited :(

actually, pre-Rose, which that whole encounter seemed sort of weird or awkward. ;)


-- trivia time -- :)
PS-- did anyone catch the name *Verity* in the story.. Verity was the name of the Doctor's mother (oh, and that lady must have been her for sure!).
Verity was also the name of the author on the book..
And according to Doctor Who-A Celebration Through Time and Space
(by Peter Haining, 1983)
Verity Lambert was the first / original producer of Doctor Who. In a sense,
she was the very real *mother* of the Doctor.. She literally gave life to THE Doctor. hmmm.. beyond inserting her name as just just a simple tribute, and a mighty *significant* tribute at that -- was incorporating "Verity" into the very fabric of the series, a mere play on names and actual events or wonderfully woven into the tapestry of the entire series..??? ;)
..me thinks so.. =)

Pharaoh Atem
January 2nd, 2010, 07:16 PM
Nurse Joan's great grand daughter; Joan is in Human Nature/Family of Blood

oh ok thanks. :)

SGalisa
January 2nd, 2010, 07:32 PM
Oh and I noticed a mistake the Old Dude knocked 16 times!

Actually, Wilf knocked the same amount of times as the Master = 4 x 4 sets.


.......the series is doomed, without Tennant it's screwed...

nah.. my family thought that when Doctor Who was on PBS years ago. But we were all pleasantly surprised to find each version of the Doctor had their own nuances and good moments, despite the production qualities of the sets and music in those days. Well, until the last two seasons of Tom Baker's era. That's when the music had significant improvements. ;)

End result of verdict -- we've enjoyed them all -- each Doctor had their own great qualities.. some less favored in personality type than the others..
Watching more than one Doctor version playing in the same eppy, now that's what sort of helped make the appreciation of each of the Doctors sparring off of each other side by side, become more enjoyable (IMO). :)



the onyl part i didn't get was the book signing who was that woman>?


Nurse Joan's great grand daughter; Joan is in Human Nature/Family of Blood

the author of the book that was being signed -- her First name was also Verity.. (please -- see my previous post about the significance of that particular name..) :)

JRDTECH
January 2nd, 2010, 10:11 PM
That's the part I didn't quite understand. Rassilon said the Master was diseased, but the Time Lords made him that way. The question is *why*.
And don't think for a moment that the Master is gone-gone.. he's earned the reputation for being DW's version of being Ming-the-Merciless. :p

Because it gave the Time lords a link outside of the time lock. Remember in the beginning the time lords are explaining that the Master went insane after looking into the untempered schism(sp?). Rassilon somehow realized that the Master's insanity was no accident and ordered the simple beat of four sent back through the schism thus creating the link. How Rassilon knew at what moment to sent the white point star I have no idea but I'm guessing it was prophecy from the oracle lady that gave him the exact moment.

spinny magee
January 3rd, 2010, 12:21 AM
Meh Might actually give it a try after seeing the 2010 trailer, especially with more Daleks WOOT

gravelgerdie
January 3rd, 2010, 12:40 AM
got the feeling that the timelord woman was either the doctors wife or Donna, because Wilf asked the doctor who the woman was and he looked over to Donna in her wedding dress. Maybe at some point Donna becomes a timelord due to her meta crisis and when she dies as a human she regenerats, some how travles back in time and joins the time war?? I don't know he looked at her for some reason, other wise they wouldn't of put it in the episode. Just somthing really small I picked up on. Also who was the other timelord that opposed Rassilon and the other timelords???


I agree with you 100%... I caught that as well.
As soon as Wilf asked "who was that woman?", to the Doctor and then the Doctor looked straight at Donna as if answering the question of Who...... it made me stand up and notice. I was so going hmmmmmmm.

Mamid
January 3rd, 2010, 12:44 AM
Okay, We think the "mystery woman" is none other than Donna Noble.

The reason is that there was something other than just the mind transfer during the metacrisis. We think her very genetics were changed. And, eventually, he either takes her or somehow she arrives on Gallifrey pre-timewar to "cure" here and she can't be "cured" but instead, the Time Lords twiddle with her dna, and she becomes his mother. After all, according to the movie, he's half human on his mother's side. Half human could mean human/timelord metacrisis.

Yah, I know... way way off base, but stranger things have happened.

He has this Tardis thing and he didn't go to some distant future where they can cure what we would consider fatal radiation poisoning to stop his death/regeneration? stupid writers.

Reefgirl
January 3rd, 2010, 02:14 AM
.......the series is doomed, without Tennant it's screwed apparently he's been voted best doctor ever, according to some suspicous site I have never seen before.
And finally, the biggest moment.....Matt White.....umm yeah...I hope he gets a new suit, because he looked kind of...well weird with Tennants suit (yeah I know it will change just saying)

They say don't judge a book by it's cover.....unfortunately I have to in this case I have little confidence in Matt White........besides he doesn't have the doctors good looks

Gonna watch 1 maybe 2 episodes but I have lost hope, it's just not the same.....I almost broke down crying after seeing The Doctor thinking he was a girl...and when he turned into White

Although I think that woman the Doctor noticed with the Time lords was his mother.

Oh and I noticed a mistake the Old Dude knocked 16 times!
Oh for God's sake, it's Doctor Who not The David Tennant Show, Dr Who will survive without David Tennant and will carry on without Matt Smith as well (BTW that's the actor's name, Matt White is an Australian Cyclist)
<Snipped by Moderator>

Bagpuss
January 3rd, 2010, 02:54 AM
Matt White is also the name of a shade of paint,so let's just use the actor's real name folks.


Or at least make it clearer if you're joking around.

Whichever's easier.

Also mind you tag the trailer/spec spoilers for the new Doc's episodes .:)

Admiral Mappalazarou
January 3rd, 2010, 03:26 AM
Matt White?

I don't get it :S

Reefgirl
January 3rd, 2010, 03:28 AM
Matt White?

I don't get it :S
I think the poster was trying to be funny

And failed miserably :lol:

Or really thought that the Australian cyclist was Dr 11

P-90_177
January 3rd, 2010, 04:16 AM
.......the series is doomed, without Tennant it's screwed apparently he's been voted best doctor ever, according to some suspicous site I have never seen before.

Down to buisness umm

Likes: 2nd last scene where he is saying goodbye
.Those humpty dumpty people back (sontarans I think)
.Doctor finally uses a gun
.Time lords YAY
.That guy from Hot Fuzz as that time lord dude
.Doctor going back to say hi to Rose
.Total Lol at the whole of chinas army being the master....I would say something smart about that but it wouldn't be right
.Doctor thinking he was a girl
.LOL at cheating in the lottery
.Jack being in a bar....I imagine he would be a nice fellow being a drunkard
.Although I do mention the "I don't get it" in the mickey/martha...gun happy couple seems nice...just like Mr and Mrs Smith......wait if Martha took up Mickeys last name......doesn't that REALLY make them mr and mrs smith?!?!

Dislikes: Total WTH at those pointless Cactus people
.Doctor screwing his people
.Mickey/Martha or whatever her name is married, I just don't get it
.No daleks :( should of shown a dalek/time lord battle scene imo
.The old dude HAVING to get trapped, can't he have oh I dunno NOT DONE THAT
.Cactus people not being killed off
.Lack of old friends helping out
.Oh and Did I mention the cactus's...oh sorry the proper term is Cactii
.The lameness of Matt White came close or did destroy the tardis

And finally, the biggest moment.....Matt White.....umm yeah...I hope he gets a new suit, because he looked kind of...well weird with Tennants suit (yeah I know it will change just saying)

They say don't judge a book by it's cover.....unfortunately I have to in this case I have little confidence in Matt White........besides he doesn't have the doctors good looks

Gonna watch 1 maybe 2 episodes but I have lost hope, it's just not the same.....I almost broke down crying after seeing The Doctor thinking he was a girl...and when he turned into White

Although I think that woman the Doctor noticed with the Time lords was his mother.

Oh and I noticed a mistake the Old Dude knocked 16 times![

Yes the Doctor has actually been voted the best doctor several times from several sites and magazines and such.........but there's no reason why matt smith won't be voted top dog in a years time. The Doctor Regenerates.....it's what he does.......David Tennent wanted to leave the show........doesn't mean the end of the world.

Anyway for the Record the Timelord who was in Hot Fuzz also played James Bond. :P

Why is it bad that the Doctor Screwed his people over?.....They wanted to destroy the universe. Not exactly people you want back.

As for Wilf getting trapped.....he did kinda do it to save someone elses life. He saw that other guy trapped so he went to get him out. Pretty honourable I'd say.


I don't think so. They were both holding hands after the last defeat of the Daleks eppy. So, as Mickey said--
basically he severed all romantic connections with Rose, and started a new life elsewhere -- one with Martha.

Mickey and Martha weren't holding hands. I don't think they even spoke in that entire episode really. Martha and Jack were holding hands. Mickey just tagged along afterwards. But you can imagine that they got to know eachother afterwards. The only thing I want to know is what happend to that Tom Milligan she was engaged with in season 4. I mean it's probably something terribly ordinary but still. It was a bit weird given then act he was never mentioned after the doctors daughter.


Oh, I will definitely miss the music. :( That is one area the has greatly improved over the years (and that includes all the way back to the very beginning of the entire series in 1963.. =)



I think the music will maintain its awesomness. As far as I know Murray Gold is still going to do the music for the show. Or at least he better do cos he does some of the best soundtracks around.

Reefgirl
January 3rd, 2010, 04:29 AM
.......the series is doomed, without Tennant it's screwed apparently he's been voted best doctor ever, according to some suspicous site I have never seen before.

Down to buisness umm

Likes: 2nd last scene where he is saying goodbye
.Those humpty dumpty people back (sontarans I think)
.Doctor finally uses a gun
.Time lords YAY
.That guy from Hot Fuzz as that time lord dude
.Doctor going back to say hi to Rose
.Total Lol at the whole of chinas army being the master....I would say something smart about that but it wouldn't be right
.Doctor thinking he was a girl
.LOL at cheating in the lottery
.Jack being in a bar....I imagine he would be a nice fellow being a drunkard
.Although I do mention the "I don't get it" in the mickey/martha...gun happy couple seems nice...just like Mr and Mrs Smith......wait if Martha took up Mickeys last name......doesn't that REALLY make them mr and mrs smith?!?!

Dislikes: Total WTH at those pointless Cactus people
.Doctor screwing his people
.Mickey/Martha or whatever her name is married, I just don't get it
.No daleks :( should of shown a dalek/time lord battle scene imo
.The old dude HAVING to get trapped, can't he have oh I dunno NOT DONE THAT
.Cactus people not being killed off
.Lack of old friends helping out
.Oh and Did I mention the cactus's...oh sorry the proper term is Cactii
.The lameness of Matt White came close or did destroy the tardis

And finally, the biggest moment.....Matt White.....umm yeah...I hope he gets a new suit, because he looked kind of...well weird with Tennants suit (yeah I know it will change just saying)

They say don't judge a book by it's cover.....unfortunately I have to in this case I have little confidence in Matt White........besides he doesn't have the doctors good looks

Gonna watch 1 maybe 2 episodes but I have lost hope, it's just not the same.....I almost broke down crying after seeing The Doctor thinking he was a girl...and when he turned into White

Although I think that woman the Doctor noticed with the Time lords was his mother.

Oh and I noticed a mistake the Old Dude knocked 16 times!

Yes the Doctor has actually been voted the best doctor several times from several sites and magazines and such.........but there's no reason why matt smith won't be voted top dog in a years time. The Doctor Regenerates.....it's what he does.......David Tennent wanted to leave the show........doesn't mean the end of the world.

Anyway for the Record the Timelord who was in Hot Fuzz also played James Bond. :P

Why is it bad that the Doctor Screwed his people over?.....They wanted to destroy the universe. Not exactly people you want back.

As for Wilf getting trapped.....he did kinda do it to save someone elses life. He saw that other guy trapped so he went to get him out. Pretty honourable I'd say.



Mickey and Martha weren't holding hands. I don't think they even spoke in that entire episode really. Martha and Jack were holding hands. Mickey just tagged along afterwards. But you can imagine that they got to know eachother afterwards. The only thing I want to know is what happend to that Tom Milligan she was engaged with in season 4. I mean it's probably something terribly ordinary but still. It was a bit weird given then act he was never mentioned after the doctors daughter.



I think the music will maintain its awesomness. As far as I know Murray Gold is still going to do the music for the show. Or at least he better do cos he does some of the best soundtracks around.
Spoilered for length

Agree with everything you said there

aarlin81
January 3rd, 2010, 05:12 AM
I really have to laugh when people are trying to figure out who the "The Woman" was.

One of the two dissident Time Lords, described as "The Woman" in the credits, visits Wilf on several occasions, appearing and disappearing in unexplained ways. When she lowers her arms to stare at the Tenth Doctor he appears to recognise her, but when later asked by Wilf about her identity, he evades the question. Though the woman is never identified in the story, [Executive Producer] Julie Gardner refers to her as "The Doctor's mother", and British newspapers The Daily Telegraph and The Daily Mail identified the character as such as early as April 2009.

If you quote this in a reply don't be a tard. Maintain the spoilers tag.

Pharaoh Atem
January 3rd, 2010, 05:27 AM
Nurse Joan's great grand daughter; Joan is in Human Nature/Family of Blood

i just e-watched the ep i missed her saying john smith

Pitry
January 3rd, 2010, 06:20 AM
I really have to laugh when people are trying to figure out who the "The Woman" was.

One of the two dissident Time Lords, described as "The Woman" in the credits, visits Wilf on several occasions, appearing and disappearing in unexplained ways. When she lowers her arms to stare at the Tenth Doctor he appears to recognise her, but when later asked by Wilf about her identity, he evades the question. Though the woman is never identified in the story, [Executive Producer] Julie Gardner refers to her as "The Doctor's mother", and British newspapers The Daily Telegraph and The Daily Mail identified the character as such as early as April 2009.

If you quote this in a reply don't be a tard. Maintain the spoilers tag.

Only Julie Gardner didn;t write the episode, and if you listen to the commentary she made with RTD he goes all "oh, really is that what you think?" and never answers. It is left open on purpose. You choose to go with that interpretation, fine. Doesn't mean it's the only one - not until RTD says so himself anyway, and he never will because he wanted it to stay open.

rukia
January 3rd, 2010, 07:45 AM
I noticed some thing that Time Lord President said and I thought of "Blink" :P

- The vote is taken.
- Only two stand against.
- And will stand as monument to their shame, like the Weeping Angels of old.

Anyone knows when exactly will the new DW season start?

Flyboy
January 3rd, 2010, 07:57 AM
I noticed some thing that Time Lord President said and I thought of "Blink" :P


Anyone knows when exactly will the new DW season start?
I imagine sometime in March/April.

SGalisa
January 3rd, 2010, 08:42 AM
Because it gave the Time lords a link outside of the time lock. Remember in the beginning the time lords are explaining that the Master went insane after looking into the untempered schism(sp?). Rassilon somehow realized that the Master's insanity was no accident and ordered the simple beat of four sent back through the schism thus creating the link.
Thanks. they did sort of explain it in the story, but I wasn't sure if it was something they planned out or something they merely took advantage of.


I noticed some thing that Time Lord President said and I thought of "Blink" :P

I thought of that, too. In fact, the very positions the actors took appeared to be the same as the original weeping angels.. and I was wondering if maybe the Time Lords imprisoned the souls of the specific two who opposed their VOTE into the statues.. along with others.. What got me thinking about that, was the very idea of Gallifrey being in the Medusa Cascade system... and What did the mythical Medusa do upon those who looked upon her? She turned them into stone.
OOOOOOooooooo.. the theoretical possibilities there.. ;)

And keep in mind what happened in the FIVE DOCTORS (Peter Davidson era) eppy, too..
there might be clues at the end of the ep there about the imprisoned in *statue* there, too.. hmmmm
not that I approve of it, but it does seem (highly) plausible and possible.



I didn't understand Martha and Mickey at all, alternate universe maybe?


I don't think so. They were both holding hands after the last defeat of the Daleks eppy. So, as Mickey said--
basically he severed all romantic connections with Rose, and started a new life elsewhere -- one with Martha.

So, it wasn't entirely unexpected based on and from that particular moment in time.

Anywho.. =) Watching the marathon of eps (on BBC-America) put too much info overload in..


Mickey and Martha weren't holding hands. I don't think they even spoke in that entire episode really. Martha and Jack were holding hands. Mickey just tagged along afterwards. But you can imagine that they got to know eachother afterwards. The only thing I want to know is what happend to that Tom Milligan she was engaged with in season 4. I mean it's probably something terribly ordinary but still. It was a bit weird given then act he was never mentioned after the doctors daughter.


no.. I'm pretty sure it was Mickey holding hands with Martha. I just got overdosed with BBC-America's nearly 48-hour marathon of DW eps, and that was one of the eps I got sort of glued to my chair in.

Jack and Martha started out walking down the sidewalk together, and I think Jack put his arm around Martha initially. A few moments later, Mickey saundered off to join them and when he caught up with them, he came between them, or got in the middle of them both. Shortly after a few snippets back to the Doctor/TARDIS, and the camera showed Jack sort of walked a few paces ahead and that's when Mickey took Martha's hand.

I checked back on the Journey's End topic, and one person made the comment about Mickey and Martha possibly having a future *relationship*.

I'll have to find it on DVD and rewatch to be 100% more certain; but it did take me by surprise, because I thought it would have been Jack who would have done that (and even looked specifically at who was wearing what during the segment to identify who was whom from *behind* -- camera angle), but that's the way the scene panned out -- fresh in memory. ;)

Someday, I'll take another look-see, but I can't do it right now (busy with other home things).



I think the music will maintain its awesomness. As far as I know Murray Gold is still going to do the music for the show. Or at least he better do cos he does some of the best soundtracks around.

well, I *do* hope you're right on that. It took me a while to figure out that the haunting "Ooooo" vocal singing was a variation of the intro theme to the entire series.. So was that awesome (nearly 5-minute) musical sequence during the end of "Waters of Mars".. and because of the marathon, I've been able to hear variation snippets of the same theme in various forms thruout the other eps, as well. Awesome music job, indeed! :)

Reefgirl
January 3rd, 2010, 08:45 AM
I noticed some thing that Time Lord President said and I thought of "Blink" :P


Anyone knows when exactly will the new DW season start?
Usually easter weekend, it has been for the last few years

GodAtum
January 3rd, 2010, 09:17 AM
I have a few questions about this episode:

Was Martha on Earth?
Who was the woman Wilf kept seeing?
Wasnt Rose in a different dimension so the Doctor could never see here again? And I'm sure there was 1 episode which involved 2 Roses?
Where was Jack, did he get left in Cardiff the last time he was on Doctor Who?

Flyboy
January 3rd, 2010, 09:32 AM
I have a few questions about this episode:

Was Martha on Earth?
Who was the woman Wilf kept seeing?
Wasnt Rose in a different dimension so the Doctor could never see here again? And I'm sure there was 1 episode which involved 2 Roses?
Where was Jack, did he get left in Cardiff the last time he was on Doctor Who?
We have to assume Martha and Mickey were on Earth, and THIS reality, not an alternate one.

The woman is, as yet, unidentified.

No ep with two Roses. Rose IS in a different dimension, sealed away with a human version of the Doctor. However that's present day, she still exists in this reality in history, which is where the Doctor visited her.

Jack:


Was in some random alien bar. At the end of Torchwood: Children of Earth, he hitchhikes away from Earth in a fit of dispair.

Reefgirl
January 3rd, 2010, 10:01 AM
I have a few questions about this episode:

Was Martha on Earth?
Who was the woman Wilf kept seeing?
Wasnt Rose in a different dimension so the Doctor could never see here again? And I'm sure there was 1 episode which involved 2 Roses?
Where was Jack, did he get left in Cardiff the last time he was on Doctor Who?

Was Martha on Earth? Probably

Who was the woman Wilf kept seeing? The Jury's out, the current thinking is she's either the Doctor's Mother or Romana

Wasnt Rose in a different dimension so the Doctor could never see here again? And I'm sure there was 1 episode which involved 2 Roses? No this was 2005, before Dr 9 met her in 'Rose'

Where was Jack, did he get left in Cardiff the last time he was on Doctor Jack was in a 'Mos Eisley' type bar and no he didn't get left in Cardiff, he hitched a lift on a passing space ship at the end of Children of Earth

Skydiver
January 3rd, 2010, 10:45 AM
i'm curious, the glove that the boss time lord was wearing...was that the glove from Torchwood? the one that they used to bring people back to life?

I did like how the doctor went through and 'said goodbye' to everyone. It was a nice bit of closure, i think not just for the character but also for the show.

and romana....haven't heard that name inyears :)

my first exposure to dr who was old Tom Baker re-runs on pbs.

Pharaoh Atem
January 3rd, 2010, 11:52 AM
i do have to say if john simms doesn't win some awards for this special i will personally go to the UK and punch someone.

Reefgirl
January 3rd, 2010, 12:42 PM
i do have to say if john simms doesn't win some awards for this special i will personally go to the UK and punch someone.

To be honest, John Simm doesn't stand a chance, the awards will either got to David Tennant or Bernard Cribbins

Pharaoh Atem
January 3rd, 2010, 12:54 PM
but i don't want to go!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQcUnAxbFck

Pharaoh Atem
January 3rd, 2010, 12:55 PM
To be honest, John Simm doesn't stand a chance, the awards will either got to David Tennant or Bernard Cribbins

true but i still have hope

RDAfan61
January 3rd, 2010, 01:10 PM
I liked it, I thought it was a good send off.

Thought John Simm was deliciously wacked but yet still redeemed himself in the end.

I don't know why people are so against the Mickey/Martha combo? I was surprised as I thought she was engaged to someone else but I don't have anything against them together. The comment that she "could have done better" was surprising. Mickey is not the same guy he was when he was with Rose.

Also, the Doctor going on about death. I think it is sort of a death. This was brought out in Christmas Invasion when he was going on about how he didn't know who he was, was he rude and not ginger now? He does become a totally new person albeit with the memories of the previous but still very different and a type of death. I guess 10 may be a bit self indulgent but aren't we all a bit, maybe that's from hanging out around humans alot. :p

I'll agree that there has been some pretty hokey story lines for Doctor Who in the time of RTD but they are a lot less hokey than some I have seen of the old series. I think he did a great job in reviving the series. I look forward to seeing what Steven Moffat will do with it as well.

I'm going to miss DT horribly, I think he brought a sense of wonder to it as he was a fan himself and I really enjoyed what he did in the role. I'll watch Matt Smith but wonder if it will be like that again. Time will tell I guess.

Pitry
January 3rd, 2010, 01:21 PM
[

I don't know why people are so against the Mickey/Martha combo? I was surprised as I thought she was engaged to someone else but I don't have anything against them together. The comment that she "could have done better" was surprising. Mickey is not the same guy he was when he was with Rose.


Don't get me wrong, I've always loved Mickey. I'm not against this pairing because of Mickey (or Martha for that matter, I completely adore her) - I just feel this is disrespectful towards Martha's character - it turns her from an actual character with an actual storyline (we've seen how she got to know Tom, it was a part of her story and a part of her healing after LotTL and treated her like a character) to just a plot device, sort of "we want to show the Doctor saying goodbye to all of his companions, can't think of something to do with Martha, we need to throw Mickey in, let's just throw them in together". It doesn't feel true to the character to me - of course it could be. There could be the sweetest story there. But not showing it at all and just "dropping the bomb", so to speak, as a throwaway 30 second scene in the end of the last ever time we're gonna see Martha... it doesn't feel as if she's being treated like a proper character with a proper story.

retiredat44
January 3rd, 2010, 01:22 PM
again,

Martha and Mickey ?? WTF??

Feel sorry for 'The Master' ?? wtf?

At least this episode (Event) wasn't a cheap one... they put a lot of effort into this making one..

very enjoyable.. and many surprises!
;)

Replicator Todd
January 3rd, 2010, 04:15 PM
The thing about Mickey, he always seemed as that "annoying" guy, Martha Jones was my favorite companion of the Tenth Doctor. I liked her the most in Series/Season 3, Mickey and her were nothing alike I thought....apparently I was wrong. I was sadden to see the way Martha turned out in Series 4 but she still was a great character IMO, just not as great. I never cared for Mickey since the beginning, and to see them together confuses and saddens me. Oh well.....

P-90_177
January 3rd, 2010, 04:39 PM
Only Julie Gardner didn;t write the episode, and if you listen to the commentary she made with RTD he goes all "oh, really is that what you think?" and never answers. It is left open on purpose. You choose to go with that interpretation, fine. Doesn't mean it's the only one - not until RTD says so himself anyway, and he never will because he wanted it to stay open.

I'm hoping Steven Moffat will take that and make it Romana. It could be The Doctors mother. But I always liked having the Doctors family as a mystery. I mean we had susan at first but if he still had family ties at home then why would he insist on staying away from Gallifrey like the plague.


The thing about Mickey, he always seemed as that "annoying" guy, Martha Jones was my favorite companion of the Tenth Doctor. I liked her the most in Series/Season 3, Mickey and her were nothing alike I thought....apparently I was wrong. I was sadden to see the way Martha turned out in Series 4 but she still was a great character IMO, just not as great. I never cared for Mickey since the beginning, and to see them together confuses and saddens me. Oh well.....

Well if you assume Martha and that Tom Milligan broke up (must of done clearly) then I reckon her and Mickey make a great match. In the end they both toughened up alot over the series. at the start of season 3, martha may have been an adventurer but she was also the damsel in distress much of the time. In the same way Mickey had a knack for getting himself into trouble and needing help to get out of it. But in the end Mickey had to fight a war with the cybermen and Martha joined UNIT. The Doctor showed them both how to be strong and them being seperated from him allowed them to really grow. They sound fairly alike to me.

aarlin81
January 3rd, 2010, 04:47 PM
Only Julie Gardner didn;t write the episode, and if you listen to the commentary she made with RTD he goes all "oh, really is that what you think?" and never answers. It is left open on purpose. You choose to go with that interpretation, fine. Doesn't mean it's the only one - not until RTD says so himself anyway, and he never will because he wanted it to stay open.

RTD won't be saying anything. He's stated that it will be left open for the next writer(s) to decide. Also consider that RTD has said that quite a few times or are you forgetting about the true identity of the Face of Bo?

Angela V
January 3rd, 2010, 04:47 PM
Oh I liked how Canada's Space station decided to air parts 1 and 2 together and the lead in was the 2009 Specials. Just made it for better viewing and an awesome experience.

I too thought the mystery woman was Donna so looks like I'm not alone in that aspect.

I felt this story was epic and everything I love about Doctor Who.

I'm all ready for Matt Smith as Doctor 11. Hoping since Space has been able to show the specials around or soon after the British that it'll hold true for Series 5 or WHATEVER. Wish they'd just kept with the regular numbering. Try explaining to a 9 year old that new Series 1 is NOT the start of Doctor Who. Yeah, Region 1 sets have seasons 1-4 (and I confuse my kids to no end when I say series instead of seasons ;) ).

It was bittersweet to see Jack Harkness. Though my hubby asked if he had took a trip to the Star Wars universe! :D

Draygon
January 3rd, 2010, 04:50 PM
It was bittersweet to see Jack Harkness. Though my hubby asked if he had took a trip to the Star Wars universe! :D
:P It looked more like a raid on the BBC costume department!

Pharaoh Atem
January 3rd, 2010, 05:59 PM
i loved the goodbye scene i think everyone he visited knew that something was happening. and it will be interesting to see how matt smith interacts with captain jack when the time comes.

the whole thing was a celebration of the DT/RTD era. and now starting complelty fresh with steven moffit

Col.Foley
January 3rd, 2010, 08:33 PM
I loved it, and hated it.
The most emotional piece of television I have watched probably since Sleeping in Light. So full of great small and large moments, the scale of it was so large and so full, it was nearly the perfect episode, just so amazing. And David Tennant did such a perfect job with the role for the last time. SO sad to see him go.
From the moment when he grabbed the gun from Wilf- you knew that there had to be something wrong.
From the escape.
TO how he said "My Reward" Probably his best moment in four years.
To him saying good bye to all the companions and all the people he has known and followed for so long, keeping safe, including Rose.
To the stand off between him, the Master, and the Time Lords, and how the Master finally used his last moment in this universe to save the whole of Time, and the whole of creation itself, sacrificing himself, I knew it would happen but it was so well done.
To the realization of who the woman was, the weeping angel. And what she meant for the story.
To the portrayal, and eventual unvailing of Rasillon.
To him saying good bye to all his companions, it being so fitting, seeing so much of his adventures in time and space revisisisted, but him breaking the rules in order to make his life complete.
The only criticisms I really have of the whole thing was that he regenerated, and then acted all insane, I mean I get it:P. But it seemed so inapporiate given the gravity of the situation. Then again his regeneration could have been all that good bye.
And also Russel just throwing in 'Rasillon' there, it worked for dramatic effect, but no one who has never seen the old series would be likely to get the reference...and what I want to know is...how?
10/10

Pharaoh Atem
January 3rd, 2010, 08:59 PM
i'm still not ginger LOL

Col.Foley
January 3rd, 2010, 09:14 PM
i'm still not ginger LOL
what is his fascination with that hair color?:P

Been watching some of it again. Still,.....I hate to say it but when I first watched the episode I just wanted to pick Wilf up and go "DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID, WE WERE SO CLOSE!"
I know...I get irational with these things:P

retiredat44
January 4th, 2010, 01:58 AM
and what was up with trying to make Billie Piper (Rose) look younger?
that hood over her head was trying to hide her age?
She still looked much older... might as well not have tried to hide it int he way they did, it jus tlooked wrong..
it almost looked like they wer etrying to hide something horrible..
was she in some accident we don't know about..?
was hald her dhead missing and needed ot be covered..

I heard someone in another forum joking about her teeth growing..
just saying..
;)

Sealurk
January 4th, 2010, 03:13 AM
The only criticisms I really have of the whole thing was that he regenerated, and then acted all insane, I mean I get it:P. But it seemed so inapporiate given the gravity of the situation. Then again his regeneration could have been all that good bye.
And also Russel just throwing in 'Rasillon' there, it worked for dramatic effect, but no one who has never seen the old series would be likely to get the reference...and what I want to know is...how?
10/10

Well in Sound of Drums didn't The Master say that the Time Lords resurrected him to fight in the Time War, only he scarpered? Presumably they resurrected Rassilon to lead them. Yep, that worked out well...

As for the regeneration, the Doctor seems especially prone amongst Time Lords to post-regeneration trauma, both physical and mental, and I suppose a new consciousness and entity being 'born' in such a violent situation doesn't lend to a calm, rational beginning!

Pitry
January 4th, 2010, 03:50 AM
what is his fascination with that hair color?:P



He's just vain that way. Always was, always will be. :)

Ian-S
January 4th, 2010, 04:11 AM
I laughed more at the feeling hair, shrieks "I'm a girl!" in high pitched voice followed by grabbing adams apple and declaring thanks he wasn't :)

Sealurk
January 4th, 2010, 04:23 AM
I laughed more at the feeling hair, shrieks "I'm a girl!" in high pitched voice followed by grabbing adams apple and declaring thanks he wasn't :)

I still thought the "Nose...I've had worse. Chin...blimey!" line was better. Having rewatched the regeneration scene and the new Doctor's intro a few more times, I'm really starting to like him.

aarlin81
January 4th, 2010, 06:50 AM
what is his fascination with that hair color?:P

Been watching some of it again. Still,.....I hate to say it but when I first watched the episode I just wanted to pick Wilf up and go "DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID, WE WERE SO CLOSE!"
I know...I get irational with these things:P

He's never been a ginger. Plain and simple.

FennerMachine
January 4th, 2010, 07:47 AM
The Time Lords may not have had to resurrect Rasillon as according to The Five Doctors he may have been in eternal sleep in the Dark Tower. He may have simply detected what was happening in the war and woke himself up. Although this conflicts with his mind being in the Matrix (not the film!).
Good episode none the less.
8/10 (never give maximum as always room for improvement)

Claire
January 4th, 2010, 09:31 AM
I was sad to see David Tennant go.:sheppard:

Pharaoh Atem
January 4th, 2010, 09:49 AM
I was sad to see David Tennant go.:sheppard:

we all are. but life goes on and we got a shiny new doctor to enjoy now :)

Coco Pops
January 4th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Could the mystery woman be the Doctor's mother? Or maybe River Song?

P-90_177
January 4th, 2010, 05:01 PM
I know Julie Gardner sad she believed it was his mother....but still. There are plenty of other relations of the doctor it could be. His Daughter or wife perhaps? He did have a family afterall. :P At any rate.....until I'm told otherwise I'm still going with Romana. :P

Col.Foley
January 4th, 2010, 05:45 PM
He's never been a ginger. Plain and simple.
that explains it:P

He's just vain that way. Always was, always will be. :)
So this goes back before Nine/Ten?

I know Julie Gardner sad she believed it was his mother....but still. There are plenty of other relations of the doctor it could be. His Daughter or wife perhaps? He did have a family afterall. :P At any rate.....until I'm told otherwise I'm still going with Romana. :P
I like this theory:D Actually this is the one that I am going with. Of course she could be the 'visionary:P'. Gallifrey falls!:D

SGalisa
January 4th, 2010, 05:58 PM
Could the mystery woman be the Doctor's mother? Or maybe River Song?


I know Julie Gardner sad she believed it was his mother....but still. There are plenty of other relations of the doctor it could be. His Daughter or wife perhaps? He did have a family afterall. :P At any rate.....until I'm told otherwise I'm still going with Romana. :P

It's possible that she was his mother. The symbolisms thruout were plenty, but could translate into several different directions, too, at the same time.

I would recommend that anyone who has this ep recorded (DVR?) or is getting the DVD -- listen to the conversation on the cactus' ship between Wilf and the "lady in white". I didn't catch this until seeing it the 2nd time -- the music playing in the background was similar to instruments playing a lullaby.. it ended in a baby's type of lullaby when Wilf asked her "who are you?" That could mean exactly that, or just her being very tender and gentle.

The other time that question occurred was when Wilf asked the Doctor, while Donna's mom was standing right there. The Doctor didn't answer but looked at Donna's mom -- I thought he was doing it to look at both of them, but it's too ambiguous, because he looked over at Donna.. Maybe the connection was to change the conversation (which he did), or maybe to point to "Mom" and child in contrast to himself with the mysterious lady in white.

Whoever she is or was, I think she is definitely someone related to the Doctor in some way, and very close to his heart. ;)

SGalisa
January 4th, 2010, 06:10 PM
He's just vain that way. Always was, always will be. :)


He's never been a ginger. Plain and simple.


that explains it:P

So this goes back before Nine/Ten?

Yep.. regarding the potential *vanity* bit. I think Tom Baker held out his hair mop of curls in a mirror, and he might have commented about his nose or teeth (I don't really remember). Maybe the hair color is something he's either had in his childhood or has been secretly craving for. Can't imagine why.. I prefer #4's auburn highlights.. :D
#5 and 6's dirty blonde to platinum highlights were kind of nice, too.. :)

And as far as the Doctor checking his face and legs out -- maybe as #9 once said -- regeneration doesn't guarantee if the person will come out with one head or two heads, or what.. that's why they all (each of them) usually go thru that body check during their first awareness of being *alive* in that new body / persona.
After reading that tidbit (in another DW discussion topic) -- NOW it makes sense (to me).. so, it might not just be a vanity issue on the body check.

Col.Foley
January 4th, 2010, 06:11 PM
Yep.. regarding the potential *vanity* bit. I think Tom Baker held out his hair mop of curls in a mirror, and he might have commented about his nose or teeth (I don't really remember). Maybe the hair color is something he's either had in his childhood or has been secretly craving for. Can't imagine why.. I prefer #4's auburn highlights.. :D
#5 and 6's dirty blonde to platinum highlights were kind of nice, too.. :)

and as far as the Doctor checking his face and legs out -- maybe as #9 once said -- regeneration doesn't guarantee if the person will come out with one head or two heads, or what.. that's why they all (each of them) usually go thru that body check during their first awareness of being *alive* in that new body / persona.
After reading that tidbit (in another DW discussion topic) -- NOW it makes sense (to me).. so, it might not just be a vanity issue on the body check.well when you change faces so much why not?:P

Pharaoh Atem
January 4th, 2010, 06:48 PM
Could the mystery woman be the Doctor's mother? Or maybe River Song?

doc's mother yes.

river song no. river IMO will be will true love. which is saying something for a 900 year old timelord. who will be much older when he meets her

Dusk
January 4th, 2010, 08:26 PM
And so ends another era... and it is a shame things seem so rushed, a bit cheap, and not very stirring. Tennant has had better Who moments. Davies, well, I can see that his creative juices (dare I use the word) just aren't lactating to their milkiest. It's like him and his team came up with a bunch of ideas on paper, threw it all up in the air and then randomly picked up several sheets from the floor and tried to mash a story together.

The cause of the Doctor's regeneration seems ridiculously bland. I would have thought falling on a butter knife would have been more exciting.

I'm hoping for a fresh start with this new guy, and of course Moffat has already demonstrated his udder of writing prowess (indeed, some of his recent instalments were some of this series' best). The issue, of course, comes from having yet another young female sidekick. Seriously, reinvent the stereotype why don't you!? And by the looks of it River Song is in and out of the new series in a matter of episodes, rather than being a long-term companion as she deserves to be. Which is sad, as Alex Kingston is a marvellous actress

And as for the recent news that Gold is returning to score the series, I'm less than overjoyed. Don't get me wrong, some of his compositions have been wonderful. Others, more recently, have been nothing short of woeful.

So bye then Dave and Russ, and here's looking to greet the new kids on the block with cake and vodka shot.

Ice Wolf
January 4th, 2010, 08:40 PM
On the woman in White:

I assumed that she was either Romana or Susan.

If she hadn't appeared at the end I would have have thought that she was Romana communicating from the dimension where she left the Doctor. So I think that is less likely that she is Romana.

She could be Susan as it could be assumed that the Timelords recalled all of the Timelords/ladies back to Gallifrey to fight the war (they did resurrect the Master afterall), so she would be there for the Time War and be trapped.

As I see it that the Timelords would have a much easier time of plucking Susan out of time than retrieving Romana from whatever dimension she was in.

SaberBlade
January 4th, 2010, 08:54 PM
doc's mother yes.

river song no. river IMO will be will true love. which is saying something for a 900 year old timelord. who will be much older when he meets her

I think Rose will be the true love. I believe that the relationship with River is going to be more of a predestination paradox than anything, with the Doctor doing some stuff simply because she told him he did it. It does make me wonder how much of their time that she so cherished came down to him doing it out of necessity not to FUBAR his own established events than love. River knowing the Doctor's true name at the time seemed deep and meaningful, but he still has to tell her regardless because she told the 10th and she could have told him her name when he gave the screwdriver. Nothing meaningful behind it, just "here's my screwdriver, just in case you need it and by the way my name is Roctod Ohw".

As for being older when he meets her, well since he first met her at her "death", she will be younger and he will be older when she meets him for the first time.

As for the woman, my money is on it being his mother. That said, since she was able to visit Bernard before the time lock was bypassed, I think it opens the possibility of her returning and perhaps other Ascended Timelords too since it seems that being some sort of non physical Timelord allows them to escape the lock, oh which is interested and a bit scary should Moffatt decide to do evil Ascended Timelord (namely the Master) story.

Coco Pops
January 5th, 2010, 12:44 AM
Ascended? What?

They've been watching Stargate :D :D :D

P-90_177
January 5th, 2010, 03:51 AM
doc's mother yes.

river song no. river IMO will be will true love. which is saying something for a 900 year old timelord. who will be much older when he meets her

I doubt that will really be covered all that much now. I suspect Steve Moffat will continue to hint at some sort of relationship between the Doctor and River. But don't forget that she recognised him as the tenth doctor ad we've only seen them meet (on screen) once. This means that providing they don't come up with an off screen explanation that time has changed somewhat from the history River suggested.

Besides that I'm not fond of the idea of the Doctor falling for an ordinary human........I mean he did that with Rose and look where that got him. Broken and lonely. Hopefully Moffat won't be doing as much shipping with his companions and other humans. (having said that I'm sure there will be some to keep people watching. The doctor always has unsaid feelings for his companions. It's just a matter of how strong they are. :P)


I think Rose will be the true love. I believe that the relationship with River is going to be more of a predestination paradox than anything, with the Doctor doing some stuff simply because she told him he did it. It does make me wonder how much of their time that she so cherished came down to him doing it out of necessity not to FUBAR his own established events than love. River knowing the Doctor's true name at the time seemed deep and meaningful, but he still has to tell her regardless because she told the 10th and she could have told him her name when he gave the screwdriver. Nothing meaningful behind it, just "here's my screwdriver, just in case you need it and by the way my name is Roctod Ohw".

As for being older when he meets her, well since he first met her at her "death", she will be younger and he will be older when she meets him for the first time.

As for the woman, my money is on it being his mother. That said, since she was able to visit Bernard before the time lock was bypassed, I think it opens the possibility of her returning and perhaps other Ascended Timelords too since it seems that being some sort of non physical Timelord allows them to escape the lock, oh which is interested and a bit scary should Moffatt decide to do evil Ascended Timelord (namely the Master) story.

See with the Doctor Regenerating again I doubt we'll hear much mention of Rose ever again. Odd drops of the name perhaps. But in the end Rose was the 9th and 10th doctors companion. The 11th will have nothing to do with her which means he won't have any of those feelings he had before get built up.
I'd also prefer to find out that while river loves the doctor, the "one time he ever could" tell her his name wasn't anything as benign as marriage. I don't see it as the doctors style to get married. (Not anymore anyway. He probably was in the past on Gallifrey)

Flyboy
January 5th, 2010, 04:01 AM
Regarding River recognising the Doctor -

She does not have to have previously met Doctor 10 before. Let us not forget 'Battlefield' in which the Brig recognised the Doctor, despite him having regenerated (twice) since their last encounter. I suspect it's all about context.

P-90_177
January 5th, 2010, 04:07 AM
Regarding River recognising the Doctor -

She does not have to have previously met Doctor 10 before. Let us not forget 'Battlefield' in which the Brig recognised the Doctor, despite him having regenerated (twice) since their last encounter. I suspect it's all about context.

Yes she also says "it was early days for them" and asks a number of questions about where they have been yet. It's only when he doesn't recognise any of them that she decides that he's a lot younger than the doctor she knows. This would indicate that she does know the tenth.

Coco Pops
January 5th, 2010, 04:52 AM
I doubt that will really be covered all that much now. I suspect Steve Moffat will continue to hint at some sort of relationship between the Doctor and River. But don't forget that she recognised him as the tenth doctor ad we've only seen them meet (on screen) once. This means that providing they don't come up with an off screen explanation that time has changed somewhat from the history River suggested.

Besides that I'm not fond of the idea of the Doctor falling for an ordinary human........I mean he did that with Rose and look where that got him. Broken and lonely. Hopefully Moffat won't be doing as much shipping with his companions and other humans. (having said that I'm sure there will be some to keep people watching. The doctor always has unsaid feelings for his companions. It's just a matter of how strong they are. :P)



See with the Doctor Regenerating again I doubt we'll hear much mention of Rose ever again. Odd drops of the name perhaps. But in the end Rose was the 9th and 10th doctors companion. The 11th will have nothing to do with her which means he won't have any of those feelings he had before get built up.
I'd also prefer to find out that while river loves the doctor, the "one time he ever could" tell her his name wasn't anything as benign as marriage. I don't see it as the doctors style to get married. (Not anymore anyway. He probably was in the past on Gallifrey)


What he becomes a love them and leave them kind of guy then LOL?

Coco Pops
January 5th, 2010, 05:15 AM
I am a little miffed that Donna once again got no closure..

I mean if that was Timelord stuff why didn't they remove it with the Chameleon Arch in the TARDIS?

And I find it annoyingly simple that there's a "circuit breaker" inside Donna's head to stop her remembering... You'd think with all the places the Doc has been and all the stuff they have witnessed he would find a way for her to keep those precious memories of her time with him.


And he forced that upon her she didn't want to lose the memories. Far better had she died in Journey's End then be made into a mere shadoow of herself as she is post JE..

P-90_177
January 5th, 2010, 05:19 AM
What he becomes a love them and leave them kind of guy then LOL?

Yeah. Well he's like that with all other events of his life so it should be the sa with love. :P

nx01a
January 5th, 2010, 04:20 PM
:'(

The Good:
>Rassilon! The Hand of Omega! Romana! [The Doctor's mother? Seriously. Where did that speculation come from?!]
>The Doctor pulled a gun on James Bond. :D
>Weeping Angels mention!
>The last 20 minutes. I was misty eyed. Rose! Sarah Jane!
>The Master stumbles into the light, saving the universe.
>David Tennant was brilliant. I didn't want him to go, either. :(
>The Doctor called Donna his best friend. :D
>An alien gay bar?! :D SO many Who aliens!
>The Time Lords becoming 'evil' and effectively creating the Master. Wow. Poor Doctor. He's had to kill his people twice now... or, as the timelock has been retconned, he's sentenced them to dying eternally.
>The list of the horrors unleashed during the final days of the Time War. Wow. Gotta love RTD for abstract, conceptual enemies we never see... as opposed to Moffat's abstract, conceptual enemies we actually see. :D
>The Doctor's rant at Wilf. Stupid, stupid humans who keep getting themselves or other people killed.
>Wilf knocking 4 times. Brilliant.
>The female cactus. My woman knew exactly when to get the heck out, and she did. "He said he was dying..." :D
>The Master Victorious! The Master Unobservant!
>Matt Smith's still not ginger. :D Matt Smith certainly has the frantic energy necessary to be the Doctor. I have no real way to gauge his performance yet, but he'll definitely handle running around the TARDIS console.

The Bad:
>Almost everything not involving the Time Lords or the last 20 minutes.
>Having said ^... SO much of the last 20 minutes only made a connection on an emotional level but didn't work story-wise:>Donna? WTF?! It's like being left with that retarded B4 at the end of ST: Nemesis. It looks like someone we love, but it's a neutered version. Like money could possibly compare to the wonders she experienced and, more importantly, the person she became. I'm disappointed.
>Smith and Jones? RTD married off the two black people on the show? Seriously?
>Jack and Alonso? Gay guys obviously meet each other in bars. I realize they were both sad and lost [though Alonso lost his ship a few years ago...] but still... AND it really makes Ianto seem like just another boink in Jack's long life of boinks. Maybe Alonso is The One, but I doubt it.
>They blew up the TARDIS?! Sigh. I loved the organic interior, but I suppose everything changes ;) once RTD leaves.

The Ugly:
>Joshua Naismith and Abigail Naismith. WTF?!

The Verdict:
The one scene that really made me feel AND made sense was when the Doctor goes back in time to see Rose one last time. The rest of it was just... Iffy. I enjoyed it overall, but Waters of Mars was definitely the best of the specials, and Planet of the Dead was actually better to me than The End of Time.
I'm sorry to see David Tennant go, but I'm certainly glad to see RTD head off. His ability to write wonderful TV [Children of Earth, Waters of Mars] is sadly outweighed by his ability to write junk [The Next Doctor and several parts of this special]. Maybe Moffat will do a better job and not try to be funny and fail.

SGalisa
January 5th, 2010, 07:18 PM
I am a little miffed that Donna once again got no closure..

I mean if that was Timelord stuff why didn't they remove it with the Chameleon Arch in the TARDIS?

And I find it annoyingly simple that there's a "circuit breaker" inside Donna's head to stop her remembering...

Maybe it wasn't necessary. The Doctor planted the mind wipe as a defense mechanism. Apparently, he knew that by her remembering her times with him would initiate the massive "release" of energy and knock anyone nearby down.

It was not clear if that was going to be an on-going tool or just a temporary, one-time *only* issue. He did sort of keep his distance from her in the end, so I would guess she can still use it again, if such a story with her in it and need for it comes up, again. That's just a nagging thought. ;)

Flyboy
January 6th, 2010, 06:10 AM
:'(


>An alien gay bar?! :D SO many Who aliens!


I doubt it was a gay bar. There was an adipose in there! :P

Girlbot
January 6th, 2010, 06:14 AM
Maybe it wasn't necessary. The Doctor planted the mind wipe as a defense mechanism. Apparently, he knew that by her remembering her times with him would initiate the massive "release" of energy and knock anyone nearby down.

It was not clear if that was going to be an on-going tool or just a temporary, one-time *only* issue. He did sort of keep his distance from her in the end, so I would guess she can still use it again, if such a story with her in it and need for it comes up, again. That's just a nagging thought. ;)
He did say "you didnt think I would leave her defenseless", so my guess is that it is something that will continue there in case it is ever needed again.

Mamzelle_Malicia
January 6th, 2010, 06:31 AM
I've been a Doctor Who fan for a few years and I had a hard time accepting this new Doctor. These last episodes were amazing, I never saw the first series so I was glad to finally meet the Time Lords *___*
The Master was brilliant as always, same for Wilf =D
The last 20 minutes were heartbreaking, I just couldn't stop crying!

Matt Smith seems pretty good but I'm a bit scared. I was so attached to David Tennant... I always see him as the Doctor =/

With a friend we were wondering about the woman who appeared to Wilf. Clearly she's related to the Doctor, the way he looked at her was beautiful and sad. I thought she was Susan but I'm not sure...

Pharaoh Atem
January 6th, 2010, 06:41 AM
anyone else lol at how much of a wet kiss matt gave his leg. sell's how happy he was :P

Replicator Todd
January 6th, 2010, 09:42 AM
anyone else lol at how much of a wet kiss matt gave his leg. sell's how happy he was :P

No.....Matt Smith was just kissing it because it was the same pants David Tennant was wearing! :P

Flyboy
January 6th, 2010, 09:46 AM
No.....Matt Smith was just kissing it because it was the same pants David Tennant was wearing! :P
You are wrong in SO many ways.



:P

badwolfSG
January 6th, 2010, 11:27 AM
[QUOTE=Ice Wolf;11081169]On the woman in White:

I assumed that she was either Romana or Susan.
QUOTE]

I thought it was Susan too.

Flyboy
January 6th, 2010, 11:34 AM
[QUOTE=Ice Wolf;11081169]On the woman in White:

I assumed that she was either Romana or Susan.
QUOTE]

I thought it was Susan too.
I could certainly see the resemblance to Susan...

badwolfSG
January 6th, 2010, 11:51 AM
[QUOTE=badwolfSG;11086755]
I could certainly see the resemblance to Susan...

It wasn't her look, it was something she said. It was other she was lost or forgotten. I don't remember which, but it made me think of Susan.

shipper hannah
January 6th, 2010, 01:01 PM
What a heartbreaking finale! :(

Coco Pops
January 6th, 2010, 03:08 PM
He did say "you didnt think I would leave her defenseless", so my guess is that it is something that will continue there in case it is ever needed again.


But what kind of defense is that if she just up anf faints in the presence of aliens? She's not the same Donna she's been made into a half wit.

Sealurk
January 6th, 2010, 03:21 PM
But what kind of defense is that if she just up anf faints in the presence of aliens? She's not the same Donna she's been made into a half wit.

Maybe, but it's probably better than death because her brain simply can't handle the vast amount of information.

Personally, any sort of Donna Noble is better than no Donna Noble. Admittedly, it would be nice if she'd been able to remember her travels with the Doctor without the risk of dying, but it would make things tricky from a story perspective. I think this is probably the best ending possible given the events of Journey's End.

SGalisa
January 6th, 2010, 05:41 PM
i loved the goodbye scene i think everyone he visited knew that something was happening...


...the whole Pre death/visiting companions/saying goodbye to Wilf was brilliant, fantastically acted by David Tennant and Bernard Cribbins.


From the moment when he grabbed the gun from Wilf- you knew that there had to be something wrong.
From the escape.
TO how he said "My Reward" Probably his best moment in four years.
To him saying good bye to all the companions and all the people he has known and followed for so long, keeping safe, including Rose.



Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.

My guess is that this visiting of his former companions before regenerating is because in most of the Doctor's own Time Lord and traveling history, he has rarely ever had total and complete control over when and *where* he was able to land the TARDIS.

Perhaps in this situation, for the last time -- he became to some -- their guardian angel. He basically rescued Luke, and Martha and Mickey from ending up dead. I didn't understand why Martha and Mickey were looking at the Doctor so strange -- as if, *why was he even there..??* did they realize he just *saved* their life? or extended it by a few more moments? I almost felt he was having a Waters of Mars deja vu moment by the unthankful in the bunch.. their reactions of seeing him didn't seem to help that scene at all.

At least Luke was more appreciative. :)

We know the Doctor has a history of getting himself sidetracked, and mostly because of circumstances beyond his control. So maybe that was the reason, or maybe because he can see their future(s) to some extent, he knew when/where he needed to jump in and stop a disastrous moment from occurring. Maybe we'll never know why.

Visiting Rose seemed more like a side trip, tho. It was fortunate he got out of there and off of the earth before he regenerated. I thought sure he was going to end up doing so in the middle of the street, or get hit by some car wildly flying thru and out of control in the snow.


The only criticisms I really have of the whole thing was that he regenerated, and then acted all insane, I mean I get it:P. But it seemed so inapporiate given the gravity of the situation. Then again his regeneration could have been all that good bye.

Maybe inappropriate. But each regeneration has shown him to be a bit bonkers to some extent. It might be his way of discovering his new self.. and getting distracted by temporarily avoiding any dangers that might be occurring around him at the moment.. sort of like being born within the whirlwind swirling all around him.. symbolically speaking, that is. ;)

At the heart of his personality, in the past, he basically never let(s) anything so serious immediately really bother him, while he is focusing on more important matters -- like doing his own *basic* checklist of whether or not he is physically or mentally capable of *fixing* and if he might be able to resolve whatever job he is sent into next.. If he had a broken leg, he wouldn't be able to walk.. if he had no ears or hearing, he'd probably be either deaf or telepathic. :eek:

Come to think of it.. I've never been bothered by his quirky personality traits after regenerating, but this does give new room for deeper thought(s).. like maybe he pre-programmed / reminded himself before the (regeneration) event(s) to go thru a checklist to see if he comes out okay enough to continue in an adventure. :)

Pharaoh Atem
January 6th, 2010, 08:01 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-End-Time-Parts/dp/B002ZHKZDS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1262840275&sr=1-1

i don't know if it changes per regions but here's the american cover for the dvd.

Replicator Todd
January 6th, 2010, 10:01 PM
I think the DVD cover looks a little too cluttered....but I have been staring intently at the beautiful Complete Specials box set. :weiranime42:

Pharaoh Atem
January 6th, 2010, 11:57 PM
I think the DVD cover looks a little too cluttered....but I have been staring intently at the beautiful Complete Specials box set. :weiranime42:

john simms owns that covers :D

Reefgirl
January 7th, 2010, 04:10 AM
I didn't understand why Martha and Mickey were looking at the Doctor so strange -- as if, *why was he even there..??* did they realize he just *saved* their life? or extended it by a few more moments?
I think they realized that the Doctor was saying Goodbye, the same way Sarah-Jane did

Pitry
January 7th, 2010, 06:56 AM
john simms owns that covers :D

..and the multiverse :)

susanne
January 8th, 2010, 09:53 AM
ive just finished watching it. (gimme a break im way behind in everything else lol) and....i think i Fangasmed a little on the ending.

martha and micky? hmmm certainly an odd couple. not sure if i like the thought of those two. the last i heard she was marrying another doctor.

rose and that hat. PFFFT hahaha sorry but she looked like such a gimp.

but the sweetest thing i think is what he did for donna as a wedding present. borrowed a quid off her dad back in time and bought her the winning lottery ticket! LOL!

and the best....had to be Matt Smith, he had me in hysterics while he was trying to kiss his legs and astonished at the size of his chin :D

Tardis
January 10th, 2010, 03:54 PM
Well, that was one hell of a two parter. I've taken the time to read through the 10 pages on the end of Ten and I have to say that there are a lot of good points made both pro and con. One I thing I noticed that if I just let myself feel the episode was an incredible roller coaster of emotion. However, once I started thinking about the episode the more dissappointed I became.

Others have better articulated the problems. However, one thing I would like to point out. All the other Doctors have had the attitude of 'accept the time you have and accept that it will end." 'Pirate Planet' with TB being a good example. But with Ten we get a quote like this from River Song:

"Everybody knows that everybody dies and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment, accepts it."

Ten refuses to accept this. I personally feel that because the Doctor fought back the regeneration so long is the reason for the mayhem we see at the end. IMHO.

Sealurk
January 10th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Well, that was one hell of a two parter. I've taken the time to read through the 10 pages on the end of Ten and I have to say that there are a lot of good points made both pro and con. One I thing I noticed that if I just let myself feel the episode was an incredible roller coaster of emotion. However, once I started thinking about the episode the more dissappointed I became.

Others have better articulated the problems. However, one thing I would like to point out. All the other Doctors have had the attitude of 'accept the time you have and accept that it will end." 'Pirate Planet' with TB being a good example. But with Ten we get a quote like this from River Song:

"Everybody knows that everybody dies and nobody knows it like the Doctor. But I do think that all the skies of all the worlds might just turn dark if he ever for one moment, accepts it."

Ten refuses to accept this. I personally feel that because the Doctor fought back the regeneration so long is the reason for the mayhem we see at the end. IMHO.

I loved that quote. It's stuff like that that makes me very excited about the new series.

I was a bit annoyed that all the other Doctors generally accepted their impending regenerations, even welcomed them (with the possible exception of the Second Doctor, understandable since he wasn't actually dying of anything, unlike the rest, and it was forced on him)...old age / exhaustion, radiation poisoning, a bad fall, spectrox toxemia, alleged head wound, gun shot wound / botched surgery, a ruddy great Time War and absorbing the Time Vortex generally make you look forward to being reborn or at least ending the suffering, I expect.

Ten's weepy moment spoiled this cycle a bit for me, and I'd hoped he would have as much dignified acceptance of his fate as the others, but since he also had the longest time between the cause of his 'death' and his actual regeneration into the next Doctor, it made a little more sense, and that quote actually puts a new perspective on it for me - to a degree.

Pan
January 10th, 2010, 10:23 PM
I loved the epi, it was so amazing. Love the timlords, the Master, Wilf and the Doctor. It was a great farewell to the Tenth Doctor and I'm glad we can see Martha, Mickey, Jack and Rose one more time.

John Simm was fantast and David was brilliant as usual.

nx01a
January 11th, 2010, 02:10 PM
Ten's weepy moment spoiled this cycle a bit for me, and I'd hoped he would have as much dignified acceptance of his fate as the others, but since he also had the longest time between the cause of his 'death' and his actual regeneration into the next Doctor, it made a little more sense, and that quote actually puts a new perspective on it for me - to a degree.I feel the same way about Donna's pleading not to be mindwiped by the Doctor. I wanted her to accept her fate, realizing the alternative. But... on the other hand, it's far more realistic for both of them to resist 'dying' as long and hard as possibly. Donna and the Doctor would still be alive but they wouldn't be the people they were. I find that incredibly sad.

Angela V
January 12th, 2010, 08:32 AM
I think the DVD cover looks a little too cluttered....but I have been staring intently at the beautiful Complete Specials box set. :weiranime42:

I'm going for the Complete Specials box set. I have a reward zone card with Best Buy. They are listing a sale price of $38.99 for when it comes out and I'm waiting for $20 in gift certicates from the reward zone card. I knew doing some Christmas shopping at BB would be rewarding in the end. :D

loke13
January 17th, 2010, 12:25 PM
So did we ever find out who that timelord woman was?

And its good to see River Song will be on series 5.

huntress
January 17th, 2010, 03:19 PM
I had some serious catching up to do and today I finally had the time to watch the finale.

IMHO RTD must be smoking a lot of weed, because the story was weird and not really that good. Also I can't believe that I am saying that but I honestly hope that Eleven will have his nerves and emotions more in check then Ten because he really was way to emo on the whole. The whole planet turning into Masters was just....weird ...yeah definitley weed. At first I was very happy to have the time lords back, it was also nice to see that the glove from "Torchwood" is actually from Gallifrey. Mystery solved in that regard but Rassilon...like for real? Man that guy is one of the most important and powerful time lords ever and the guy was worse off then Borussa! I know that so far basically every time lord except the doctor and Romana has come off either as a stuffy beaurocrat or as megalomaniac but this is getting ridiculous. Two things were interesting though:

The Doctor: “That’s how I choose to remember them. The Time Lords of old. But then they went to war An endless war, and it changed them. Right to the core. You’ve seen my enemies, Wilf. The Time Lords are more dangerous than any of them.”

The Master: “But this is fantastic, isn’t it? The Time Lords restored.”

The Doctor: “You weren’t there, in the final days of the war. You never saw what was born. But if the time lock’s broken then everything’s coming through—not just the Daleks, but the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, the Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Never-Weres… The war.turned into hell And that’s what you’ve opened. Right above the Earth. Hell is descending!”


I'd like to have a story with the Nightmare Child and the Skaro Degredations only we probably never will. What did the time lords do on Skaro. Did they try to tinker again around the Daleks and only made them worse?

The Ancients in the Star Gate universe have already turned out to be a bunch of idiots and the time lords are now even worse. It was interesting though to know that Rasillion and the other old time lords basically created the Master and drove the poor man crazy. I hope the Master will retrun again. In regards of the woman - I think that was the mother from the doctor. I thought at first that she would be Romana but that would make no sense. Romana was younger then the doctor and this woman lived when Rassilon was still around. She could also have been an older incarnation of his wife! We know after all the the doctor married the wife of Omega which means means that his wife was quite a bit older. She was also the mother of his 13 children and I am sure they would both recognize each other - no matter what. Well whoever she was - his mother or his wife - she was definitely someone he knew.

In regards of good byes - they were soso I didn't like the one for Donna at all..if that is supposed to be a satisfying ending for her storyline then I have to say that it sucks. We know how brilliant Donna was and we know that she is so much more then just a little, superficial temp. She could be like Sarah Jane maybe even more, and this has been taken from her. My heart ached when Wilf said to the doctor that Donna often has moments in which she has a far away look, close to remembering and that she feels as if she has lost something important but she doesn't know what. To marry her off to some bloke and give a wad full of cash is no the answer.

The Jack/Alonso bit was also a bit stupid. I liked Jack sitting alone and sad in an alien bar but did he need to meet that guy from "Voyage of the Damned" right there. I think in his case I would have been more then okay if he still suffers the loss of Ianto and his grand-son.

Also when did Martha end up with Mickey. I thought she was engaged toThomas Milligan, married him and was on a honeymoon with him in Africa? Guess she called it off and married Mickey instead. =-\

I really liked the meeting between the doctor and the great grand daughter of Joan Redfern. That was a nice touch, as well as meeting Rose before she actually meets him! That was sweet and not overdone. I also liked the last good bye with Sarah Jane. The sad, knowing llok she gave him. I guess she knew what was happening when she looked at his serious face and the way he waved goodbye.

This finale was a bit better then the other specials before, I do have to say that, but compared to the finales in the regular show it was pretty mediocre and the storyline a mess, I will miss Ten a lot but I think I am ready for Eleven. Bring it on Stephen Moffat.

Tanie
January 21st, 2010, 03:38 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed both parts. I will miss DT, but what I always enjoyed was the fact that the Doctor changes every so often. I've loved them all, and all for different reasons.

But back on topic... I thought this was a fantastic way to end and the knocking by Wilf was just creepy! Loved it all!!! Bring on Matt and a new era :D

PMN1
February 5th, 2010, 02:07 PM
The Master's facebook

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/themastersfacebook.jpg

PMN1
February 5th, 2010, 02:08 PM
The Doctor's facebook - particularly like Wilfred Mott's comment...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/doctor-who-facebook-page.jpg

Coco Pops
February 5th, 2010, 06:11 PM
Does anyone have a release date for the box set of all the specials?

Angela V
February 5th, 2010, 07:55 PM
Does anyone have a release date for the box set of all the specials?

Region 1 was released on February 2nd. My son is re watching them backwards for some unknown reason.

Cold Fuzz
February 6th, 2010, 02:27 AM
I loved the epi, it was so amazing. Love the timlords, the Master, Wilf and the Doctor. It was a great farewell to the Tenth Doctor and I'm glad we can see Martha, Mickey, Jack and Rose one more time.

John Simm was fantast and David was brilliant as usual.

I would definitely like to see John Simm against as the Master. However, I think the door closed on his character with that spectacular confrontation with Rassilon.

pbellosom
February 7th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Does anyone have a release date for the box set of all the specials?

I thought it was out? I saw it the other day

Coco Pops
February 7th, 2010, 03:12 PM
I'm really annoyed by all this..... No release date yet for the box set in Australia...... Frell

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
February 16th, 2010, 06:34 PM
OK, I saw parts 1 and 2 together, so I'll just post my take on both here.

I loved it at first. I pretty much loved every scene with Wilfred. :D And insane-super-powered-Master was definitely very entertaining.

And hot. *clears throat*

But I ended up getting annoyed with the Master turning every human into... himself. I mean, I know he's insane and all... but that just seemed a little ridiculous, IMO. I LOLed when Obama turned into him though. :P

I absolutely loved all the interactions between the Doctor and Master, and I'm really glad they ended up giving an explanation for the way the Master is and even hinted at some goodness deep down. The way they ended it with the Master "saving" the Doctor while killing Rassilon out of revenge was great because you're not sure how much of his motivation was his wrath at the President for turning him into the monster he is and how much was stopping the President from killing the Doctor. I choose to believe it was both, at least. Because... I dunno, maybe it was just me, but I just loved how if you read between the lines and watch his expression, the Master honestly looked like deep down he wanted to go with the Doctor and explore the universe when he suggested it. And then when he asked if the drumming would go away... he seemed just short of begging him to say yes, like he wanted so badly to be rid of it, but then became afraid of losing it. It was such a huge part of him that even though it was a constant torment, the thought of losing it terrified him.
Actually, describing it now reminds me of... well... myself. Only instead of a constant drumming I'm just very sick. But I can sort of relate in the sense that... I've been sick for so long that the thought of getting well and knowing my life could change a lot can be kind of intimidating. But now I'm kinda going off topic...

It was nice seeing all the old faces at the end, though I could've done without the scene with Jack. Mickey and Martha together works, IMO. Seeing Rose right before she met the previous Doctor was nice. And the wedding... Well, I pretty much liked all the scenes at the end except the one with Jack. Though I admit... it could've been worse.

As for David Tennant's final moments... OK, I almost cried when the Doctor got that panicked, sad look and says, "I don't want to go..." Gaaah... I wanted to run to him, give him a long, comforting hug and say, "I don't want you to go either!" XD

Now. Numbuh 11. My first reaction was negative. However, I will definitely give Matt Smith a chance, mainly for two reasons: one, my first impression may have been slightly skewed due to my sadness at seeing the 10th Doctor go and two, my first impression of 10 himself was pretty much just as negative and I certainly grew to love him. ;)

So, there were a few things here and there that bugged me, but the most important plot points -- the 10th Doctor's finale, the Master's insanity then redemption (if you see it as such), the Time Lords temporary return -- I was saddened, touched, afraid and excited at all the right times throughout all these scenes.

All in all, I'd say it was great! :D Except for 10's finale... that I would call brilliant! ;) :D

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
February 16th, 2010, 06:39 PM
*psst* Long Post of DOOM warning... :P


[snip]

Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.

Honestly - I think they milked this massively. DT leaving is NOT the end of everything, he's no more special than any previous Doctor, we did NOT need a 'this is your life' style walk down memory lane. Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.
[snip]

Sure, DT had an emotional performance, but in my opinion, it was an unnecessary one.
I think that was just the 10th Doctor's personality. As others have mentioned, he was a bit arrogant at times, not to mention a bit vain. But I also think he was just a little more sentimental than previous Doctors. Knowing his personality was going to change (so while he's the same person, the change is significant) was change enough for him. If I knew I was going to change significantly, I wouldn't be eager to either. And the only reason he went around visiting the people he's known as this version of himself was that, for one thing he actually had the opportunity to before he regenerated, and he also knew he may very well not feel the same about them after regenerating.

As for "cheaping" regeneration... if anything, they did the opposite. I never got any implication that the next Doctor was to be any worse. They just stressed the fact that he will be changing significantly. I'm sure part of it was that RTD wanted a grand finale for himself and for Tennant, but it seemed in character for the 10th Doctor to make a bigger deal about regeneration to me.


Was I the only one expecting Christopher Eccelston (9th Doctor) to show up when David Tennant (10th Doctor) was strugling to get back to the TARDIS and help him just after he sees pre-Doctor Rose?
[snip]
Also, where did The Master go? We didn't see him die or dissapear in anyway?
While I wasn't expecting it, I certainly would have loved it. :D

I assumed that either he was pulled back into the time lock with the others or he drained what was left of his life force by killing Rassilon. So... I don't think he'll be back. At least not played by Simm. Which is sad... because I loved him as the Master... but I just don't see how they can bring him back without doing something really lame plot-wise.


I loved it. The Doctor Should die saving a single person; not the whole universe, just one friend.
[snip]

[snip]
Wilf being the Doctor's death. It was so simple and unexpected and it worked! Huge emotional impact because of the simplicity of it.
Exactly! I loved that. I mean, he's saved the universe so many times... but how often does he give his life/regeneration for just one friend? I think it was the best end to 10, myself.


[snip]
Err... why did the Tardis start falling apart? Though my theory is because the Doctor is trying to fight the regeneration and the Tardis is reacting to the turmoil within him.
I agree with that theory.


The doctor is the doctor, no matter what. But it can also be perceived as a different person. Thats what makes doctor who such a great character. I can understand what he says. Unlike previous Doctors, as far as i'm aware, they didn't know that they would have to regenerate. No 10 does. He's had all this time tho think about it. Each personality of the doctor is ever so different. For me, his reaction makes sense considering he knew it was going to happen.
I agree.


[snip]
The sad thing is I've heard a number of people say they're not going to watch Dr Who anymore now that David Tennant's left, it's a shame that people have not bothered to follow a show properly but just watch because the lead actor is hot
There's a lot more to him than hotness... his acting ability, like you mentioned, and the depth he brought to the role. Not saying other Doctor's didn't bring any, but he definitely added to it in his own way. But yeah, I agree that it's sad that people will stop watching it just because he's gone. I admit to not expecting much from Matt Smith and to being a 10th Doctor fan (not a DT fan... just him as 10 as I haven't seen him in much), but I'm certainly going to continue watching. Smith deserves the same chance I gave Tennant, after all... and I didn't like my first impression of him either. :P


[snip]
The problem was made worse by BBC America. They just threw the commercials in and destroyed emotional sequences at least twice.
O rly? Not at all surprised, but still... I intend to watch it again on DVD eventually. I hate missing stuff. *is American*


Well if you assume Martha and that Tom Milligan broke up (must of done clearly) then I reckon her and Mickey make a great match. In the end they both toughened up alot over the series. at the start of season 3, martha may have been an adventurer but she was also the damsel in distress much of the time. In the same way Mickey had a knack for getting himself into trouble and needing help to get out of it. But in the end Mickey had to fight a war with the cybermen and Martha joined UNIT. The Doctor showed them both how to be strong and them being seperated from him allowed them to really grow. They sound fairly alike to me.
I agree. I liked seeing them together and think they fit fine. :cool:


[snip]
Visiting Rose seemed more like a side trip, tho. It was fortunate he got out of there and off of the earth before he regenerated. I thought sure he was going to end up doing so in the middle of the street, or get hit by some car wildly flying thru and out of control in the snow.
[snip]
LOL! Thanks for the mental picture... XD

*all dramatic, Rose walks away, the Ood appears... some car turns the corner, driver sees the Ood, freaks and loses control of the car running straight towards the Doctor*

Doctor: "O.o ... Oh dear." *SMASH* LOL

.....

Sorry, the rest of your post was great. I just LOLed at that part. :P

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
February 16th, 2010, 06:45 PM
The Master's facebook

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/themastersfacebook.jpg


The Doctor's facebook - particularly like Wilfred Mott's comment...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/doctor-who-facebook-page.jpg
:lol:

Where did you get these? :D Or did you make them yourself?

Pharaoh Atem
February 17th, 2010, 07:56 PM
:lol:

Where did you get these? :D Or did you make them yourself?

it's people who pretend to be the characters on facebook. oh that's hilarious

Coco Pops
February 21st, 2010, 04:18 AM
OMG that was so awesome tonight...

OMG wasn't that wizard?

Fun, fun, fun...

The Master saving the day. OMG... Who would have thunk that?

Timothy Dalton makes an excellent time Lord.

The Doctor crossing his own timeline to see Rose before he first met her. Now that was a little naughty.. The Ood singing to him across time..... And finally that regeneration.... That appears to have gone a bit wonky........

TARDIS falling apart. Crashing to Earth.

Oh wow hey... And we see Doctor Mummy..... His mummy is a Time Lord... Ooh



Now that we have seen all the bleeding specials where can you buy the complete set? And which DVD region is it

Coco Pops
February 21st, 2010, 04:19 AM
Now that we have seen all the bleeding specials where can you buy the complete set? And which DVD region is it

Coco Pops
February 21st, 2010, 04:36 AM
:'(

The Bad:[/B]
>Almost everything not involving the Time Lords or the last 20 minutes.
>Having said ^... SO much of the last 20 minutes only made a connection on an emotional level but didn't work story-wise:>Donna? WTF?! It's like being left with that retarded B4 at the end of ST: Nemesis. It looks like someone we love, but it's a neutered version. Like money could possibly compare to the wonders she experienced and, more importantly, the person she became. I'm disappointed.
>Smith and Jones? RTD married off the two black people on the show? Seriously?
>Jack and Alonso? Gay guys obviously meet each other in bars. I realize they were both sad and lost [though Alonso lost his ship a few years ago...] but still... AND it really makes Ianto seem like just another boink in Jack's long life of boinks. Maybe Alonso is The One, but I doubt it.



I agree with all of the above even the bit hidden in spoilers.... Moreso with this bit. After seeing the episode Donna is very much like B4 in ST Nemesis and is onlyl half a person.. Still maybe new Doctor could cure her...

IcarusAbides
February 21st, 2010, 06:26 AM
Now that we have seen all the bleeding specials where can you buy the complete set? And which DVD region is it

They are on Amazon.com here:
http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Complete-Specials-Planet/dp/B002ZHKZEM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1266765839&sr=8-1

And Amazon.co.uk here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Complete-Specials-DVD/dp/B002SZQC7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1266765904&sr=8-1

Hope this helps

Coco Pops
February 21st, 2010, 11:22 AM
They are on Amazon.com here:
http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Complete-Specials-Planet/dp/B002ZHKZEM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1266765839&sr=8-1

And Amazon.co.uk here:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Complete-Specials-DVD/dp/B002SZQC7A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1266765904&sr=8-1

Hope this helps



Cool I know where I am shopping this week :)

gateship15
February 21st, 2010, 05:06 PM
fantastic i love the master saving the doctor in the end. altho i think he did it because of what the time lords did to him sending him insane not to save the doctor. i love that it was donnas grand father that ended up getting the doctor killed not the master like everyone would think would have done it. i also like the way they allowed donna to remember but managed it so in the end she didn't die because of a safety on her and she finally got married it went full circle with donna because thats how the met on her wedding day. it also seems micky finally found someone to love him but i thought Marther already had a husband?

Coco Pops
February 21st, 2010, 05:37 PM
fantastic i love the master saving the doctor in the end. altho i think he did it because of what the time lords did to him sending him insane not to save the doctor. i love that it was donnas grand father that ended up getting the doctor killed not the master like everyone would think would have done it. i also like the way they allowed donna to remember but managed it so in the end she didn't die because of a safety on her and she finally got married it went full circle with donna because thats how the met on her wedding day. it also seems micky finally found someone to love him but i thought Marther already had a husband?

The lame excuse was that it "didn't work out" with the other guy for Martha... I am baffled with the Martha / Mickey marriage thing.

But as NX01a posted on the previous page and I quote here..


Donna? WTF?! It's like being left with that retarded B4 at the end of ST: Nemesis. It looks like someone we love, but it's a neutered version. Like money could possibly compare to the wonders she experienced and, more importantly, the person she became. I'm disappointed.

Totally agree..... We get half a person here.... Defense Mechanism? Bah!!!! at the cost of her life. Sloppy writing. IMHO

gateship15
February 21st, 2010, 05:52 PM
oh. i guess that since micky has also been with the doctor he understands her line of work better i doubt her last husband would understand what shes been thro

Draygon
February 22nd, 2010, 02:19 AM
The lame excuse was that it "didn't work out" with the other guy for Martha... I am baffled with the Martha / Mickey marriage thing.




oh. i guess that since micky has also been with the doctor he understands her line of work better i doubt her last husband would understand what shes been thro

You know, when I ranted about this to my mum after the show, she made teh point of maybe her husband had died. Possibly in the Dalek atrack in Journey's End or noteven that. Martha had said he was workign in Africa so who's t say soemthign didn't happen to himleavign Martha widowed *shrugs* Seems more plausable than "it didn't work out" if you ask me and at least looks liek they put some thought into it.

So that's the explination I'm goign to keep in mind no matter wht they say :P

Coco Pops
February 22nd, 2010, 03:56 AM
You know, when I ranted about this to my mum after the show, she made teh point of maybe her husband had died. Possibly in the Dalek atrack in Journey's End or noteven that. Martha had said he was workign in Africa so who's t say soemthign didn't happen to himleavign Martha widowed *shrugs* Seems more plausable than "it didn't work out" if you ask me and at least looks liek they put some thought into it.

So that's the explanation I'm goign to keep in mind no matter wht they say :P


Actually I like that explanation...

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
February 22nd, 2010, 09:44 AM
I like that explanation too. It makes sense and doesn't make Martha or her previous husband out to be unfaithful or just naive.

gateship15
February 22nd, 2010, 07:46 PM
i agree it would have been hard tho if he did die

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
February 23rd, 2010, 11:26 AM
Yeah... I can actually imagine a story where he dies in some alien attack, then she's distraught and Mickey helps her out, inevitably falling in love as they connect through their experiences... Maybe the Dalek attack. Because that's when Mickey and Martha meet. Maybe she goes home to find that what's-his-name died while she was off looking for the... German sounding... destroy the planet... thing. I forgot what it's called. :P Anyway. That would work, IMO. :D

Someone should write a fanfic. *hint hint to any fic writers here*

gateship15
February 23rd, 2010, 12:51 PM
maybe she did it would have been horrible for her if she did tho

Pharaoh Atem
February 27th, 2010, 06:35 PM
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7513/66392b50636dd088067f0d6.jpg

this about sums up the doctor's last adventure.

gateship15
February 28th, 2010, 12:23 AM
yes it does

P-90_177
March 5th, 2010, 10:48 AM
You know, when I ranted about this to my mum after the show, she made teh point of maybe her husband had died. Possibly in the Dalek atrack in Journey's End or noteven that. Martha had said he was workign in Africa so who's t say soemthign didn't happen to himleavign Martha widowed *shrugs* Seems more plausable than "it didn't work out" if you ask me and at least looks liek they put some thought into it.

So that's the explination I'm goign to keep in mind no matter wht they say :P

I wouldn't really say more plausible.....I mean more relationships end because it didn't work out than because one of them died afterall. :P

gateship15
March 5th, 2010, 11:19 AM
i agree. altho i am glad in the end she ended up with someone who understands her and what shes been thro i mean she saw the end of the world and micky has seen cyberman being born and lived in a parallel universe. i am also glad micky finally has someone who loves him for who he

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
March 5th, 2010, 07:42 PM
I wouldn't really say more plausible.....I mean more relationships end because it didn't work out than because one of them died afterall. :P
Except that many of us feel that she would be intelligent and mature enough not to marry someone she shouldn't. At least that's how I feel. :P

gateship15
March 5th, 2010, 08:36 PM
hmm have a point

Pharaoh Atem
March 8th, 2010, 07:51 PM
Shimmer!!! :D

gateship15
March 8th, 2010, 08:04 PM
:) fantastic ep

Pharaoh Atem
March 10th, 2010, 08:58 PM
[He begins to look around in a hurried state.]

Doctor: Something else – there was something else! Something – important I’m [beginning to tap his temples with his fingers] I’m – I’m –

[A massive explosion shakes the TARDIS. The Doctor looks up at the core of the ship with a delighted grin.]

Doctor: Ha-ha! Crashing!

[As the burning TARDIS hurtles through space towards the Earth, the Doctor runs around wildly.]

Doctor: Ha-ha! Wa-hoo! Woo hoo hoo! Ha! Geronimo! [FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][SIZE=3]

gateship15
March 10th, 2010, 09:30 PM
i love that. i bought these two specials yesterday

Pharaoh Atem
March 24th, 2010, 08:26 PM
(in story)

do you think the tenth doctor purposely tried to destroy the tardis with the regeneration energy??

open to anyone.

gateship15
March 24th, 2010, 10:00 PM
why would he destroy the tardis?

Coco Pops
March 25th, 2010, 07:50 AM
(in story)

do you think the tenth doctor purposely tried to destroy the tardis with the regeneration energy??

open to anyone.


I am not sure.......Why do you think that?

P-90_177
March 25th, 2010, 10:51 AM
(in story)

do you think the tenth doctor purposely tried to destroy the tardis with the regeneration energy??

open to anyone.

I don't think so. Maybe if he was finally dying. But he was merely regenerating so he'd have no reason to.

Sealurk
March 25th, 2010, 10:52 AM
(in story)

do you think the tenth doctor purposely tried to destroy the tardis with the regeneration energy??

open to anyone.

I don't think he intentionally fired the energy into the console. In fact, I think the TARDIS was partially experiencing sympathy pains. Since it is a living, psychic machine and is apparently very fond of the Doctor (maybe this incarnation more than the others even), I think it felt the Tenth Doctor's anguish and physical pain.

I think it reacted to this, especially since the Doctor was presumably in an immense amount of pain from a) the radiation damage to his body and b) from maybe delaying the regeneration, not to mention how much emotional pain Ten may have been in. So maybe it was even allowing the regeneration energy to cause the damage, by lowering defenses or such, as a prelude to remodelling - a sort of sympathetic regeneration.

Maybe it's the TARDIS equivalent of strong emotion, who knows? That or Ten was so bitter about his death he decided to make life difficult for the next incarnation...

Blencathra
March 25th, 2010, 04:07 PM
I don't think he did it on purpose either, though to be honest I barely saw it as I was sobbing into my handkerchief at the time. I think I need to watch it again (any excuse for a re-watch! :P)

gateship15
March 25th, 2010, 06:21 PM
i agree with both Sealurk an blencathra i don't think he would do it on purpose.

Replicator Todd
March 25th, 2010, 07:52 PM
(in story)

do you think the tenth doctor purposely tried to destroy the tardis with the regeneration energy??

open to anyone.

Nah, not on purpose at least....

gateship15
March 25th, 2010, 10:18 PM
watched it again it is a great episode

Myn McGeek, Third Sentinel
March 25th, 2010, 11:11 PM
I don't think he intentionally fired the energy into the console. In fact, I think the TARDIS was partially experiencing sympathy pains. Since it is a living, psychic machine and is apparently very fond of the Doctor (maybe this incarnation more than the others even), I think it felt the Tenth Doctor's anguish and physical pain.

I think it reacted to this, especially since the Doctor was presumably in an immense amount of pain from a) the radiation damage to his body and b) from maybe delaying the regeneration, not to mention how much emotional pain Ten may have been in. So maybe it was even allowing the regeneration energy to cause the damage, by lowering defenses or such, as a prelude to remodelling - a sort of sympathetic regeneration.

Maybe it's the TARDIS equivalent of strong emotion, who knows? That or Ten was so bitter about his death he decided to make life difficult for the next incarnation...
I agree with the first idea. I actually like that.

So no, I don't think the Doctor did it on purpose. I am open to the idea that the TARDIS did it to itself, possibly by lowering it's defenses in a sort of empathic connection to the Doctor.

gateship15
March 26th, 2010, 12:14 AM
i agree. the tardis has been the doctors for a long time it is possible that it in some level has a connection and friendship with the doctor even tho i did notice the tardis tends to take him to were the trouble is

Pharaoh Atem
September 26th, 2010, 06:16 PM
i watched this yesterday now that it's on netflix and i have to admit it i enjoyed it so much more this time around. maybe cause now DT's gone i don't know but it really holds up well as the final story of ten and RTD.

but as i said the first time around john simms really hit it out of the park playing the master in this.

gateship15
September 30th, 2010, 08:40 AM
i agree with you

Coco Pops
November 3rd, 2010, 09:27 PM
Perhaps the ONLY TV death I felt anything for........ Usually I just don't bother as you can't get attached to TV characters. Sorry that's just how I feel.




The whole of the last 20 or so minutes in the final episode of "End Of Time" when he talks to Wilf "is this my reward" and the mini tantrum throwing stuff. very emotional and brilliantly acted by DT.....



Also him visiting companions to say bye..... Funny thing though Did Martha and Mickey realise why he suddenly appeared there? Seems like they got the message somehow? Seems like everyone got this thing that it was the final time they'd see The Doctor, which made it feel more emotional.....


Did anyone else get that vibe?


Also why this particular regeneration caused damage to the TARDIS?


Was he still in 2005 when he crashed?

Ulkesh47
November 3rd, 2010, 10:00 PM
Did anyone else get that vibe?


Also why this particular regeneration caused damage to the TARDIS?


Was he still in 2005 when he crashed?
- Definitely.

- My theory: Notice that the Tenth Doctor puts off his regeneration for a pretty long time. Maybe a Time Lord can through force of will "bottle up" regeneration energy, but the consequence is that the release of that energy is very powerful, thus damaging the TARDIS to the point where it needs repair.

- I'm not sure at the moment. Did the Doctor crash at Amy Pond's house after time-traveling... or what?

jameshawking
November 18th, 2010, 10:20 AM
It wasn't in 2005. It was in about 1993.

Something like 10 or 12 years passed between first meeting Amy as a child and her older version, and in "The Hungry Earth" the summary has it, I believe, as being 2015 and 10 years after their journeys with the Doctor ends.

I believe.

Spimman
March 11th, 2011, 11:57 AM
This episode was an interesting look into why the Doctor had to trap his people inside the time lock and was a nice farewell to DT as the Doctor. The undertone of the whole special was kind of sad, Wilfred really pulled me in emotionally and his goodbyes to everyone at the end was kind of special!

Cold Fuzz
March 15th, 2011, 12:49 AM
This episode was an interesting look into why the Doctor had to trap his people inside the time lock and was a nice farewell to DT as the Doctor. The undertone of the whole special was kind of sad, Wilfred really pulled me in emotionally and his goodbyes to everyone at the end was kind of special!

Indeed it was a good send-off for Tennant but it was also a great send-off for all the companions he encountered from the beginning of the RTD era. Additionally, I thought it was a good way to have Master out of the picture in a way that didn't paint him as irredeemably evil. Getting all of these threads out into the open nicely cleared everything for the Eleventh Doctor.

Ulkesh47
March 15th, 2011, 07:10 PM
Additionally, I thought it was a good way to have Master out of the picture in a way that didn't paint him as irredeemably evil.
Indeed, he turns out to be an extremely tragic figure.

And it's all that Rassilon's fault! :) "Back into the Time War, Rassilon! Back into Hell!"

Cold Fuzz
March 15th, 2011, 11:55 PM
Indeed, he turns out to be an extremely tragic figure.

And it's all that Rassilon's fault! :) "Back into the Time War, Rassilon! Back into Hell!"

Indeed. And the music that played when the Master saved the Doctor was brilliant. :D "The Clouds Pass" I believe is the name of the track from the End of Time soundtrack.

Spimman
March 16th, 2011, 06:31 AM
Additionally, I thought it was a good way to have Master out of the picture in a way that didn't paint him as irredeemably evil.

Good point, it was good to see that, he truly was more insane that purely evil!

mi_guard
September 7th, 2011, 01:47 AM
so, what exactly did the Doctor mean when he said that he was going to get his reward?