Poor attention to medical details in 'Penance'.

[Flyboy]

SPOILERS



Fantastic episode, no doubt about that.

But fcol, I wish some writers would actually pay attention to modern conventions. Often with SG1 it's military protocols, however in Penance it was Jimmy's CPR that really bugged me. Jimmy's version of CPR was simply to repeatedly provide ventilations. Correct procedure is 30 compressions and 2 ventilations on a continuous cycle, with the compressions being the key element. It's a minor detail, but I really wish it would be taken into account.

[majorsal]

SPOILERS



Fantastic episode, no doubt about that.

But fcol, I wish some writers would actually pay attention to modern conventions. Often with SG1 it's military protocols, however in Penance it was Jimmy's CPR that really bugged me. Jimmy's version of CPR was simply to repeatedly provide ventilations. Correct procedure is 30 compressions and 2 ventilations on a continuous cycle, with the compressions being the key element. It's a minor detail, but I really wish it would be taken into account.

i agree with you in parts, but i guess i don't care enough to fuss on it.

sorry, fob.

[jelgate]

Actually last time I checked the American Red Cross said they were now only advocating chest compressions and did away rescue breaths. But that was a year ago so it may have changed.

Anyway yes Jimmy did give poor CPR in addition how poorly he dug out the bullet and wrapped Kate's bandage. But I've just learn to forget about since Stargate and a lot of other shows medical practices are poor and false. I think it has something to do with protecting the actors

[Flyboy]

Actually last time I checked the American Red Cross said they were now only advocating chest compressions and did away rescue breaths. But that was a year ago so it may have changed.

Anyway yes Jimmy did give poor CPR in addition how poorly he dug out the bullet and wrapped Kate's bandage. But I've just learn to forget about since Stargate and a lot of other shows medical practices are poor and false. I think it has something to do with protecting the actors

I can provide you with some fairly recent research that counters that information if you're interested.

The public are advised that if they feel unsafe performing ventilations, say for infection reasons, just to do compressions, as that in itself is better than nothing, but health professionals are required to perform full CPR with ventilations as they should have the appropriate protective equipment such as face masks or face shields.

The addition of two ventilations every thirty compressions can be essential to prevent cerebral deterioration. The caveat however is that within the first few minutes after a non-asphyxial cardiac arrest, compression only CPR in adults can be as effective as CPR with ventilations, but that's obviously time dependent, and is the reason why compressions are commenced before any attempts at ventilations.


Anyway, point is - it's highly unlikely Jimmy would have gotten her beathing again simply through rescue breaths, that generally only occurs with drowning victims or children.

[jelgate]

I can provide you with some fairly recent research that counters that information if you're interested.

The public are advised that if they feel unsafe performing ventilations, say for infection reasons, just to do compressions, as that in itself is better than nothing, but health professionals are required to perform full CPR with ventilations as they should have the appropriate protective equipment such as face masks or face shields.

The addition of two ventilations every thirty compressions can be essential to prevent cerebral deterioration. The caveat however is that within the first few minutes after a non-asphyxial cardiac arrest, compression only CPR in adults can be as effective as CPR with ventilations, but that's obviously time dependent, and is the reason why compressions are commenced before any attempts at ventilations.


Anyway, point is - it's highly unlikely Jimmy would have gotten her beathing again simply through rescue breaths, that generally only occurs with drowning victims or children.

No need too. I believe you. I know better then anyone that medical science is always changing thier position on issues

[Amalthea]

Actually last time I checked the American Red Cross said they were now only advocating chest compressions and did away rescue breaths. But that was a year ago so it may have changed.

Anyway yes Jimmy did give poor CPR in addition how poorly he dug out the bullet and wrapped Kate's bandage. But I've just learn to forget about since Stargate and a lot of other shows medical practices are poor and false. I think it has something to do with protecting the actors

I saw the chest compression thing on The Doctors (or maybe it was Dr. Oz?) less than a month ago. They still do advocate no more breaths, just compressions.

Doing realistic CPR on a live, non-critical condition person isn't a good plan. As long as it looks like conventional knowledge of what CPR looks like, what's the difference to the viewing masses?

[Skydiver]

actually, if you're an actor doing cpr on a healthy person, you must do it wrong..or you'll kill them

doing 'good cpr' usually means that you'll break their ribs, mess up their heart rhythm and eventually kill them

CPR on tv is ALWAYS done wrong.

now, how convincingly wrong it is varies from show to show. on some, it looks real, on others, it's just laughable

[Flyboy]

actually, if you're an actor doing cpr on a healthy person, you must do it wrong..or you'll kill them

doing 'good cpr' usually means that you'll break their ribs, mess up their heart rhythm and eventually kill them

CPR on tv is ALWAYS done wrong.

now, how convincingly wrong it is varies from show to show. on some, it looks real, on others, it's just laughable

Very good point.

But despite not being able to real CPR, you can at least simulate it correctly, as has been done in SG1, notably following Teal'c wound in Orpheous. Ignoring compressions completely is ridiculous imo.

[Skydiver]

thing is, if Kate had a pulse and just wasn't breathing, compressions would have messed that up

honestly, i'm not sure if her stopping breathing from the pain is likely, she should have just passed out (and i won't go into the silliness of compounding the itty little hole, the lack of blood and the 'gotta get the bullet out or you'll bleed to death'

Jimmy did everything wrong until he simply put pressure on it (although, with a foreign object in a wound, the last thing you wanna do is apply pressure)

that whole thing was just all together wrong

[Flyboy]

thing is, if Kate had a pulse and just wasn't breathing, compressions would have messed that up

honestly, i'm not sure if her stopping breathing from the pain is likely, she should have just passed out (and i won't go into the silliness of compounding the itty little hole, the lack of blood and the 'gotta get the bullet out or you'll bleed to death'

Jimmy did everything wrong until he simply put pressure on it (although, with a foreign object in a wound, the last thing you wanna do is apply pressure)

that whole thing was just all together wrong

Actually, we're taught to never both checking for a pulse, if they're not breathing and their airway isn't blocked or closed, then whatever happens they NEED CPR.

But yeah, otherwise you're right. The risk with the bullet was imo more likely infection, as opposed to bleeding to death, she wasn't demonstrating any signs of shock, so little liklihood of internal bleeding, and as you said, not much external bleeding...

[siles]

SPOILERS



Fantastic episode, no doubt about that.

But fcol, I wish some writers would actually pay attention to modern conventions. Often with SG1 it's military protocols, however in Penance it was Jimmy's CPR that really bugged me. Jimmy's version of CPR was simply to repeatedly provide ventilations. Correct procedure is 30 compressions and 2 ventilations on a continuous cycle, with the compressions being the key element. It's a minor detail, but I really wish it would be taken into account.

Why should it bother you? jimmy wasn't a medical professional so it is reasonable he might not know how to perform CPR correctly

[Flyboy]

Why should it bother you? jimmy wasn't a medical professional so it is reasonable he might not know how to perform CPR correctly

Ok.

It's also highly unlikely that ventilations would work as they did in the episode. Basically the episode made it look like all you need to do in order to get a casualty breathing again is provide ventilations - that generally only works in children and drowning victims.

The problem is I know how many people's opinions of how to do CPR are based on TV shows. If people repeat what they saw on Sanctuary, they won't do any good at all.

[jelgate]

Actually, we're taught to never both checking for a pulse, if they're not breathing and their airway isn't blocked or closed, then whatever happens they NEED CPR.

But yeah, otherwise you're right. The risk with the bullet was imo more likely infection, as opposed to bleeding to death, she wasn't demonstrating any signs of shock, so little liklihood of internal bleeding, and as you said, not much external bleeding...

I was always taught you check for both breathing and a pulse before performing CPR.

[Jumble]

thing is, if Kate had a pulse and just wasn't breathing, compressions would have messed that up

honestly, i'm not sure if her stopping breathing from the pain is likely, she should have just passed out (and i won't go into the silliness of compounding the itty little hole, the lack of blood and the 'gotta get the bullet out or you'll bleed to death'

Jimmy did everything wrong until he simply put pressure on it (although, with a foreign object in a wound, the last thing you wanna do is apply pressure)

that whole thing was just all together wrong

The thing that bothered me most was the fact that he was giving her alcohol (I assume that's what was in the flask), which is a definite nono for someone who has a bleeding wound. Alcohol thins the blood and prevents it from clotting, thereby increasing blood loss.

[Flyboy]

I was always taught you check for both breathing and a pulse before performing CPR.

When?

First aid regs change all the time as they learn more about medical science, the current regs don't include taking a pulse as part of primary survey if the casualty isn't breathing.