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    Moving the people of PG

    I was thinking why not try and get the people of the PG to move to the MW or just to a hidden planet. If we could get this done then the wraith would fall within a few years then they could just move back.

    Could it be done?

    How could it be done?

    I had 2 thoughts of moving methords. First 1 is stargate to the MW using a new gate bridge that does not stop in the middle and can go to any planet in the mw. second is by ship. if we could copy the tech from the atlantis episode The Ark we could beam 1000s if not millions of people to a 304 and take them where ever you want to. this methord would be most effective if we wanted to move them without their consent.




    #2
    and this is ethically and morally acceptable how?

    i doubt anyway WANTS to be moved. and even if they do, many are immune to feeding regardless. the wraith are gonna fall. we shouldn't taunt them

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      #3
      No matter what one does, it takes time. In that time, the Wraith will figure out what is going on and take actions to stop it. Examples: They could start guarding heavily populated worlds, they could focus heavily on trying to take out Atlantis' means of doing this even if it means finding Atlantis at all costs and sending everything they have at it, (post season 1, Atlantis has survived by staying as much under the radar as possible while the Wraith squabble) and they could even get their hands on whatever Atlantis is using to get to the Milky Way themselves.

      A gatebridge, that they go around accessing from all different worlds, would be an particularly bad idea. Especially when you're dealing with populations of people that could easily have spies among them and when dealing with populations you're basically kidnapping which is the only way it's going to work as there will be many, many people who won't want to be relocated. So, they'd just be asking for trouble - Bringing people, against their will, to one's home galaxy is not exactly going to foster good will between their new neighbors and if they start sticking all these different people on different portions of the same planets, there will be conflicts and they will be their fault.

      Also, at this point in the show's history, the Wraith aren't going to die of starvation if their food supply is taken out. After having shared Michael's research with Todd, as long as he and anyone who worked for him remains alive and free, that research will suddenly become very important to the Wraith as they're facing the total loss of their food supply. As a result, they will quickly lose any qualms about using it on themselves and work feverishly to perfect it. Then you have angry Wraith who know you just tried to kill them all off, while they, themselves, having nothing standing in the way of a full population explosion.

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        #4
        Originally posted by thekillman View Post
        and this is ethically and morally acceptable how?

        i doubt anyway WANTS to be moved. and even if they do, many are immune to feeding regardless. the wraith are gonna fall. we shouldn't taunt them
        for those who do not want to be moved its not but its the lesser of 2 evils.

        i am sure there will be plenty of people who would move to a safe place if they had the chance. especially if it ment the nd of the wraith.

        many may be immune but still not enough. the wraith are not going to fall unless we do some thing



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          #5
          todd is most likely to take over.

          anyway, i think we should hold back our forces and just keep on going as we do now. if the wraith pull fancy stuff, we can react easily.

          for now, TLM tactics are best. except we need 2 ships together, not just 1

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            #6
            Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
            No matter what one does, it takes time. In that time, the Wraith will figure out what is going on and take actions to stop it. Examples: They could start guarding heavily populated worlds, they could focus heavily on trying to take out Atlantis' means of doing this even if it means finding Atlantis at all costs and sending everything they have at it, (post season 1, Atlantis has survived by staying as much under the radar as possible while the Wraith squabble) and they could even get their hands on whatever Atlantis is using to get to the Milky Way themselves.
            they will have a hard job in finding atlantis when its in the MW

            A gatebridge, that they go around accessing from all different worlds, would be an particularly bad idea. Especially when you're dealing with populations of people that could easily have spies among them and when dealing with populations you're basically kidnapping which is the only way it's going to work as there will be many, many people who won't want to be relocated. So, they'd just be asking for trouble - Bringing people, against their will, to one's home galaxy is not exactly going to foster good will between their new neighbors and if they start sticking all these different people on different portions of the same planets, there will be conflicts and they will be their fault.
            most of the people would probly want to move to a safe place if given the chance. even if we did not decide to move people against there will we would still be dealing the wraith a huge blow.

            Also, at this point in the show's history, the Wraith aren't going to die of starvation if their food supply is taken out. After having shared Michael's research with Todd, as long as he and anyone who worked for him remains alive and free, that research will suddenly become very important to the Wraith as they're facing the total loss of their food supply. As a result, they will quickly lose any qualms about using it on themselves and work feverishly to perfect it. Then you have angry Wraith who know you just tried to kill them all off, while they, themselves, having nothing standing in the way of a full population explosion
            we have todd so he cant give the drug to any1. plus todds faction believes Teyla is there queen before we started this plan we could get her to destroy anything they have on the drug.



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              #7
              moving all humans is never gonna work.

              the wraith can be defeated. but we shouldn't thrown in all we have.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mickhhh View Post
                they will have a hard job in finding atlantis when its in the MW
                Presumably they would move it back to finish off the Wraith. If they're going to enact a major operation against the Wraith, they're going to need a fortified base of operations that is properly supplied. Building a base from scratch (in another galaxy, no less) will take even more time and it's going to be even easier for the Wraith to take it out if they find it.

                most of the people would probly want to move to a safe place if given the chance. even if we did not decide to move people against there will we would still be dealing the wraith a huge blow.
                Unlikely. There are those who blame Atlantis for the Wraith, there are those who are not going to like giving up their advancements, (and these are the populations that are able to support enough people to be of real value to the Wraith) there are those who are naturally unfriendly, there are those who are untrusting of strangers in general, there are those who very much like their homes, and shortly after Atlantis starts kidnapping people against their will word is going to get out. If they have to do it once and someone gets away to tell about it... That's it, their credibility is shot. Which isn't on very strong footing to begin with - Earth doesn't have enough resources or manpower to help anything but a limited number of small villages relocate. They can't supply the population of an entire galaxy with food and shelter, while those people put in the hard work to get back on their feet, and there is no force in the Milky Way who is going to want to help on such a scale. So what lies are they going to have to tell people to convince them it's okay? And what happens after they believe them? A good portion of them starves to death? Earth might as well just go around and kill them off like the replicators.

                we have todd so he cant give the drug to any1. plus todds faction believes Teyla is there queen before we started this plan we could get her to destroy anything they have on the drug.
                Todd is crafty - The chance of him talking his way to freedom is high (despite the danger, he wouldn't have given himself up if he didn't think he could get them to let him go later). But regardless, there was never any mention of spreading Michael's research to the faction. Todd intended to test it out on his own personal Wraith and then possibly use his position, as leader of the faction, to convince the rest of them to go along with it. Although his first test failed, Todd had many Wraith who were loyal to him and they knew what was going on. Remember how he said he put his best scientists into integrating ZPMs with Wraith technology and one of them succeeded? That one was very much of aware of who Teyla was and knew of Atlantis' plan with Michael's research. It's likely the others did as well, especially if Todd planned to perfect the technology in the future.

                Bottom line. This idea is a slow and time consuming endeavour that is unfeasible from many angles. If they want to take out the Wraith, their best option (at the moment) is to work up to being able to use direct force while continuing to give the Wraith reasons to weaken themselves. As things stand, they're really not far from there - Earth has been slowly building a fleet of powerful ships, they have the Travelers as their allies, and they have a better chance of convincing the Asgard to lend their ships to a combined fleet than they do of convincing enough Human worlds to put their fate in Earth's hands. On top of that, a strong coalition of various Human worlds is very important. Although it was founded by primitive worlds, they can grow it into a military force that is capable of using the Stargate to raid ground targets. It's also a strong sign of Human worlds being willing to come out of hiding, which may lead to alliances between more advanced Human worlds that can do some serious damage of their own. If they can find someone else who has access to ships or knows of where they can find more Ancient technology or even, someone who is advanced enough to create small attack ships capable of fitting through the gate, they would big a big help. But if you start kidnapping people, it's unlikely you have any chance of getting help from them. Which would be very bad as they're going to need help for your plan anyway since it won't kill off the Wraith, just weaken them (as mentioned, they will retreat and start protecting key worlds, perhaps even going so far as to relocate Humans themselves).

                Anyway, with all that, any Ancient/Wraith ships that they could potentially find and use for their purposes (there's already an Ancient warship and Wraith Cruiser waiting to be repaired and darts can be deadly in the hands of someone willing to sacrifice themselves) they can use the sensors on Atlantis and the Traveler's satellites to track and locate a good portion of Wraith ships. Then they can use their forces to catch the Wraith off guard by launching a galaxy wide sneak attack against their mostly isolated ships. Best of all, they're slow moving, so it would take them awhile to react and then band together in significant numbers. During that time, someone who works to ensure that they outgun the Wraith in every encounter can do some serious damage for weeks straight. After that, Earth and its allies can band together and take out fleets with superior firepower before they grow too big. Meanwhile, those that do become a threat, can't remain that way for long because they need to physically travel to worlds to get enough food to sustain them all and the way things stand, there's just not enough Humans for lots of Hives to survive off the same feeding grounds. So Earth can wait them out or try to get them to amass as large a fleet as possible and use something (such as the tainted ZPM from Sg-1) to take them out in one go.
                Last edited by Xaeden; 22 December 2009, 08:39 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by mickhhh View Post
                  they will have a hard job in finding atlantis when its in the MW



                  most of the people would probly want to move to a safe place if given the chance. even if we did not decide to move people against there will we would still be dealing the wraith a huge blow.



                  we have todd so he cant give the drug to any1. plus todds faction believes Teyla is there queen before we started this plan we could get her to destroy anything they have on the drug.

                  i think its pretty safe to say that todd dosent just have the drugs formula memorized so its gotta be in some computer on one of his bases or ships and its not like its all that much of a secret because an entire hive of wraith knows about it since they helped bring teyla in as their queen and also if teyla comes back and says something that those wraith who know her true identity dont like they could simply call her out, plus without todd there to play defence, i seriously doubt that little routine would be sucessful again.


                  also, relocating every human in an entire galaxy is just logistically unfeasible because were talking about millions if not billions of people. i mean you cant just send them to any planet in the milkyway because without infrastructure in place to recieve them they'd be in serious trouble. i mean a place to sleep, use the bathroom, not to mention food would make it a very expensive and complicated task. i mean the sheer amount of resaources that would have to be expended to get a planet ready would better be used to simply build 304s and attack the wraith. i mean even if you use asgard matter converters it would still be a massive undertaking that could take like months to get a planet ready and a long time to get the people to the planet.


                  right now the wraith are fighting amongst themselves andare scared that their next meal might be their last and are really disorganized so the best thing to do is basically start attacking the strongest factions hit and run style so that you prevent any one of them from rising to dominance and keep them fighting untill youve taken out all of their hives and queens which are most important b/c w/o them they cant make new soldiers. all we need is a fleet of maybe 20 304s and the wraith will be gone sooner than it would take to relocate all of the humans to the MW.
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                    #10
                    Yes, because they've all shown that they just love being moved around like pawns before... /sarcasm. Remember the Athosians? They resented the Expedition for treating them like second-class people in Atlantis, and then they resented the Ancients for forcing them to New Athos.
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                      #11
                      The evac idea is good for emergencies but not galaxy wide

                      if i was in Command id give the travellers the ARK tech also put it on 304s that way if a hive heads to a world beam everyone up and put them back later

                      Also get the genni to set up factories in those underground bunkers with earth and traveller help I'm sure those things could improve a lot then spread the tech build things like AK47s in there maybe the simplest AA missile that can be built imagine if every village in PG could down darts and kill wraith if every world went up like sateda when a culling was attempted the wraith would have trouble

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by mickhhh View Post
                        I was thinking why not try and get the people of the PG to move to the MW or just to a hidden planet. If we could get this done then the wraith would fall within a few years then they could just move back.

                        Could it be done?

                        How could it be done?

                        I had 2 thoughts of moving methords. First 1 is stargate to the MW using a new gate bridge that does not stop in the middle and can go to any planet in the mw. second is by ship. if we could copy the tech from the atlantis episode The Ark we could beam 1000s if not millions of people to a 304 and take them where ever you want to. this methord would be most effective if we wanted to move them without their consent.
                        We are talking about a massive exodus of people here. We simply don't have the resources to ferry hundreds of thousands of people. It's far easier to combat the Wraith head on, rather than attrition.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ed View Post
                          The evac idea is good for emergencies but not galaxy wide

                          if i was in Command id give the travellers the ARK tech also put it on 304s that way if a hive heads to a world beam everyone up and put them back later

                          Also get the genni to set up factories in those underground bunkers with earth and traveller help I'm sure those things could improve a lot then spread the tech build things like AK47s in there maybe the simplest AA missile that can be built imagine if every village in PG could down darts and kill wraith if every world went up like sateda when a culling was attempted the wraith would have trouble
                          ARK?

                          I would give Genni People nothing, Not even simple gun, because they would use it against us ASAP. We know that from experiance.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by lordofseas View Post
                            We are talking about a massive exodus of people here. We simply don't have the resources to ferry hundreds of thousands of people. It's far easier to combat the Wraith head on, rather than attrition.
                            It isn't even hundreds of thousands. There's 6 billion people on this planet, compared to a planet in the PG thats a lot, but moving an entire galaxy, possibly trillions of people is unreasonable in practice. Especially if only one of those stargates connects to the other galaxy.
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                              #15
                              there aren't trillions.

                              Earth is a richer feeding ground than the entirety of pegasus combined.

                              a billion or so should do. most planets have small and simple settlements. we never met a planet with a population of over a million. even the genii had tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands. and the Travellers commented on their Aurora that it could take more than a thousand people, and that was significant

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