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Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

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    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
    I think it's hard to out think Jenn. Sometimes my brain just starts to hurt and I run off to read fic to ease my aching head LOL (It's even better if Jenn writes a fic that explains her theory)
    Actually, my beta and I are atm in a deep philisophical/character email discussion while working out concepts for our next two fics... So, I agree. Sometimes fics are just ways of clarifying concepts... and vice versa

    SGU (though On Topic, really):
    Spoiler:
    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
    And I agree about SGU: I have a theory over on that side that Young is the "anti-O'Neill" - he carried on at one point a relationship with a subordinate (and I get the feeling that the relationship was *not* ego based but two people who were in a similar situation that came to deeply care about each other. There's a great scene (one of the best I think so far in the series) where Young and O'Neill are talking and Young talks about how he always respected O'Neill because he was willing to break the rules - and for those of us that know Jack, we know that there are only very particular times Jack would break rules. ... but that's a different thread
    A friend and I were just discussing that scene via email yesterday, by coincidence. You actually make a really good point, because I think Jack breaks rules specifically when he believes the rules are going to HURT people - Young seems to break them when they're inconvenient. So to speak. Though, tbh, in that specific argument I think Young was correct, and if Jack had truly believed the plan wasn't safe he would have broken that rule, too, once upon a time. Or at least tried harder against it. Only.. you know... Jack - ironically considering where he started back in CotG - has a rather biased view in favor of the ability of scientists. (apparently, that's what happens when you sleep with one ) In general, too, I would argue one of Jack's defining traits is his loyalty - either to his team, his 'woman', his planet - effectively anyone he feels responsible for - and from what we've seen of Young, he doesn't seem to have much loyalty towards anyone or anything. Because the big rule Young broke that Jack would never consider breaking, of course, were his marriage vows. It takes Jack years to break those even after they're no longer valid, and even more years to break them even when he hasn't said them, and even then he feels guilty about it... So in many ways I'd agree they're looking a bit like foils if for no other reason that Young doesn't seem to have Jack's empathy and concern for the feelings of others. Which is *ironic* - considering all the years Daniel seemed to think Jack had none .

    As for VSS's comment about 'ships' on SGU. It's interesting, cause so far the 'ships' seem to be mostly about sex and not so much about relationship. Talk about 'there but for the grace of god...' cause, frankly, I'd take a deep friendship which blossoms into more above cheap thrills in a supply closet any day. Or becoming an unspoken joke amongst others. And I rather think that's a deliberate point . Frankly, if anything's going to make one hug the regs closely, it's young (very VERY young) Lt Scott and his complete failure to grasp there's a difference between being an officer and a gentleman...

    Comment


      Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
      Actually, my beta and I are atm in a deep philisophical/character email discussion while working out concepts for our next two fics... So, I agree. Sometimes fics are just ways of clarifying concepts... and vice versa

      SGU (though On Topic, really):
      Spoiler:
      A friend and I were just discussing that scene via email yesterday, by coincidence. You actually make a really good point, because I think Jack breaks rules specifically when he believes the rules are going to HURT people - Young seems to break them when they're inconvenient. So to speak. Though, tbh, in that specific argument I think Young was correct, and if Jack had truly believed the plan wasn't safe he would have broken that rule, too, once upon a time. Or at least tried harder against it. Only.. you know... Jack - ironically considering where he started back in CotG - has a rather biased view in favor of the ability of scientists. (apparently, that's what happens when you sleep with one ) In general, too, I would argue one of Jack's defining traits is his loyalty - either to his team, his 'woman', his planet - effectively anyone he feels responsible for - and from what we've seen of Young, he doesn't seem to have much loyalty towards anyone or anything. Because the big rule Young broke that Jack would never consider breaking, of course, were his marriage vows. It takes Jack years to break those even after they're no longer valid, and even more years to break them even when he hasn't said them, and even then he feels guilty about it... So in many ways I'd agree they're looking a bit like foils if for no other reason that Young doesn't seem to have Jack's empathy and concern for the feelings of others. Which is *ironic* - considering all the years Daniel seemed to think Jack had none .

      As for VSS's comment about 'ships' on SGU. It's interesting, cause so far the 'ships' seem to be mostly about sex and not so much about relationship. Talk about 'there but for the grace of god...' cause, frankly, I'd take a deep friendship which blossoms into more above cheap thrills in a supply closet any day. Or becoming an unspoken joke amongst others. And I rather think that's a deliberate point . Frankly, if anything's going to make one hug the regs closely, it's young (very VERY young) Lt Scott and his complete failure to grasp there's a difference between being an officer and a gentleman...
      SGU on topic just y'know, spoilered cuz some ppl haven't seen it
      Spoiler:

      The point about convenience is actually the exact point I make in the SGU thread. Jack has an internal moral code (almost religious) that he will not violate even if that means breaking the current rules - he holds himself to a higher code. And you're right about the loyalty - in Scorched Earth he sees a no-win situation and he makes a choice based on his internal code - a group of people who are alive *now* versus a culture that has long since been deceased. People who he has gotten to know and who he values. People to whom he's made a *promise*. Daniel doesn't see that (and while Sam I don't think is happy about it, I think on some level she gets it).

      Young just doesn't have that and he's a loose canon. Ultimately we don't *know* that the plan they'd set up would actually not work. Rush fakes the malfunction. In Young's defense it's hard when it's YOUR life on the line and in Jack's defense - he's got a point, how many of Carter's ideas were frickin' CRAZY (blow up a sun anyone??). I don't see either of them wrong in that particular scenario. But unlike Jack, whenever Young breaks a rule, I just don't get that honorable feeling from him. Even if his reason is good (and I might buy it), I feel like there's always an ulterior motive, some other internal reason.


      Which is to say that S/J getting together without violating the regs is incredibly important to who the characters are. I know we've played around with the idea, would Jack have broken the regs if Sam had pushed it... and maybe... but the problem is that he'd never be the one to approach her and he recognizes her internal code and I think it would break him if he caused her to violate it. (yes yes, I know I know I wrote an AU fic... but it's an AU and again, the world ends... so... it balances out... LOL)

      Comment


        Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
        Which is to say that S/J getting together without violating the regs is incredibly important to who the characters are. I know we've played around with the idea, would Jack have broken the regs if Sam had pushed it... and maybe... but the problem is that he'd never be the one to approach her and he recognizes her internal code and I think it would break him if he caused her to violate it.
        I don't believe Jack would *ever* have broken the regs. I do think if, after D&C for example, instead of suggesting they 'keep it in the room' Sam had admitted instead that she thought they should find out if they could 'make a go of it' and explore 'them', I think Jack would have figured out a way around the regs. Not *breaking* them, but transferring to different teams/etc to give them that opportunity while maintaining honor. And I refuse to buy they needed to stay on SG1 for the sake of earth. For the sake of the show... maybe.

        I agree that Sam had a most legalistic view of The Rules (as Replicarter points out to her) which went along, I think, with her overall opinion on what it took to be a Good Officer (and earn Daddy's approval ) Which brings me back to The Hair - which I think is another symbol of that. Because she *could* have had long hair all along, yet she gives that as the reason to Dr. Carter in PoV on why she doesn't have long hair. There are ways to have long hair and still not break the regs, but Sam's view of Air Force Officer meant short hair, and so she wore it short (despite the fact I'd say it's clear her natural preference is for it long). And of course, being freed from her Daddy issues and thus free to be Who She Is, she no longer holds that legalistic view and now realizes she can have long hair and be an officer... amongst other things

        Comment


          Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
          I don't believe Jack would *ever* have broken the regs. I do think if, after D&C for example, instead of suggesting they 'keep it in the room' Sam had admitted instead that she thought they should find out if they could 'make a go of it' and explore 'them', I think Jack would have figured out a way around the regs. Not *breaking* them, but transferring to different teams/etc to give them that opportunity while maintaining honor. And I refuse to buy they needed to stay on SG1 for the sake of earth. For the sake of the show... maybe.
          I tend to agree without - I was more pointing back to a discussion we'd had earlier on the board. I agree that Jack would have tried to work within the guidelines rather than bust them in the jaw with a right hook.

          It does drive me crazy when stories keep them on the same team because the world needs them and I don't think Sam would put up that much of a protest if he wanted to retire or otherwise - he's never made a big show of his career. I think a lot of his career is more of he has the experience and well, sort of like retail managers, if you're there long enough you get promoted LOL. In reality it's because they wanted to be able to keep playing with the O'Neill character in guest star roles LOL

          I agree that Sam had a most legalistic view of The Rules (as Replicarter points out to her) which went along, I think, with her overall opinion on what it took to be a Good Officer (and earn Daddy's approval ) Which brings me back to The Hair - which I think is another symbol of that. Because she *could* have had long hair all along, yet she gives that as the reason to Dr. Carter in PoV on why she doesn't have long hair. There are ways to have long hair and still not break the regs, but Sam's view of Air Force Officer meant short hair, and so she wore it short (despite the fact I'd say it's clear her natural preference is for it long). And of course, being freed from her Daddy issues and thus free to be Who She Is, she no longer holds that legalistic view and now realizes she can have long hair and be an officer... amongst other things
          I agree. :: thumbs up :: It's one of those things that makes Threads so important - she had what she perceived her father expected of her (and what everyone else expected of her) and I think she learned that she had to step out and take her risks. That she needed to realize that she only got one life and she shouldn't settle for anything less than what she wanted - that it was worth the risk rather than settling for something that would be comfortable, but wouldn't be fulfilling.

          Comment


            Lovely little fic rec, which takes place between Nemesis and Small Victories:

            Waiting

            And a note on another subject:

            There's been discussion in the past about Sam being able to get calls on her cell phone when she's in the briefing room at the SGC, and how that's possible given how far underground they are.

            I was watching Avenger 2.0 the other day, and (though I've noticed this before and not thought anything of it) realized that Felger got a call on his cell phone from his mother while he was in his lab at the SGC. So I'm thinking some way must have been invented(?) to allow calls into and out of the SGC by cell phone, otherwise those two times (are there more?) couldn't have happened.

            Just a passing observation ...

            Comment


              Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
              I agree that Sam had a most legalistic view of The Rules (as Replicarter points out to her) which went along, I think, with her overall opinion on what it took to be a Good Officer (and earn Daddy's approval ) Which brings me back to The Hair - which I think is another symbol of that. Because she *could* have had long hair all along, yet she gives that as the reason to Dr. Carter in PoV on why she doesn't have long hair. There are ways to have long hair and still not break the regs, but Sam's view of Air Force Officer meant short hair, and so she wore it short (despite the fact I'd say it's clear her natural preference is for it long). And of course, being freed from her Daddy issues and thus free to be Who She Is, she no longer holds that legalistic view and now realizes she can have long hair and be an officer... amongst other things
              For those that are new to the thread...Jenn can give you the most detailed rundown about Sam's hair that right now you read and you laugh at me about but then one day you will come onto the thread and there will be a long winded (but good) rundown of Sam's hair and her relationship to Jack at the moment and you realize...It really is all about the hair...Darn it Jenn was right and B isn't all that crazy.
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              GO NEWMAN! 31!

              Comment


                This AU conversation is cracking me up!

                SGU:

                Spoiler:
                Young is anti-Jack in my mind for all of the things you guys said especially the loose cannon part, his temper has been a factor to his breaking of the rules and I think I would like them to explore more on what happened between Young and TJ.
                On the ships, well I'm aboard the hopeless ships (yes that's what I'm calling them) that will probably never happen but oh well. These ships are Eli/Chloe and TJ/Rush (I particularly would love to see TJ/Rush happen just because it would add to the whole Young/Rush conflict


                ^ that comment was longer than I intended
                sigpic
                Sig by Everlovin My YT|My other vid site|My LJ|My Photobucket|My ImageShack|"Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty" by hlndncr

                Comment


                  I agree with what you have written about S & J and the regs, and why they remained on the same team, Jenn & Twilight.

                  Another reason is just to watch each other's backs (and backsides, but I'm not going into that right now). What they do really is dangerous, one of the other rewatch threads has a mortality count for the SGC, and it's pretty high!

                  I think for Jack especially this is an important thing. He doesn't like her going off without him, and it gets worse as the seasons go by instead of better which makes no military sense at all- so his reluctance doesn't correlate with her growing skills as an officer but rather his growing feelings for her.


                  In Spirits he's not at all worried, though she's actually going into a known hostile situation looking for a team that's missing. In Evolution he's concerned but there isn't anything he can do about it. In Zero Hour he drags his feet and won't let her go at all without another team for backup even though its routine. Finally, in Beachhead he's got to be talked into it by her CO but she wants to go back (plus, I think he probably thought it wouldn't be permanent) so she goes. It would have been interesting to have an episode where Hammond decides to give her a team of her own. By all rights, she should have had one before season 8.
                  Last edited by VSS; 16 December 2009, 08:43 AM.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                    You're just going to have to wait LOL Between my Shipmas fic I've got another fic I'm beta reading... huh, I wonder who's that could be... Oh wait...

                    LOL
                    ...yes blame me again...it's not my fault you love betaing And I'm the perfect victim person to beta for

                    Originally posted by cess525 View Post
                    I thought fic was around to procrastinate with? The other option just sounds so...wrong.
                    As for school its a good thing I didn't know about SG-1 till right before I graduated. Thankfully FB wasn't around till my senior year either. Its even better that the only evil internet thing I had was AIM and since everyone went to class at the same time it wasn't to much of a problem. If I had to do college now...I would be DOOMED!
                    Re bolded: *blinks* and you're are telling me that now...I thought I went to school for when I want to procratinate on my fangirling...
                    Darn it...I should change my priorities I think.


                    You all talking about doomed now...see how unfair it is for me! *pouts*
                    *sings: "It's a hard knowcking life for us...dum dum dum duuuuum dum dum."
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by yessika View Post
                      This AU conversation is cracking me up!

                      SGU:

                      Spoiler:
                      Young is anti-Jack in my mind for all of the things you guys said especially the loose cannon part, his temper has been a factor to his breaking of the rules and I think I would like them to explore more on what happened between Young and TJ.
                      On the ships, well I'm aboard the hopeless ships (yes that's what I'm calling them) that will probably never happen but oh well. These ships are Eli/Chloe and TJ/Rush (I particularly would love to see TJ/Rush happen just because it would add to the whole Young/Rush conflict


                      ^ that comment was longer than I intended
                      SGU Ships
                      Spoiler:
                      I'm on the "what ship?" boat. I don't think I will beable to ship anyone on that show. It just doesn't seem like there is room for a happy ending on that show ship wise. If there isn't going to be a happy ending I don't want anything to do with it. Forever the fluffy romantic I know but I expect nothing less of myself
                      Also when I watched SG1 the first time I saw the chemistry between Sam and Jack. Now with SGA I never got a "woohoo they belong together" that and I knew that TPTB were mean at writing ship, why torture myself.
                      I don't get any "Woohoo they belong togethers" in SGU. Granted I might be a little picky I only ship in one other show.
                      sigpic
                      GO NEWMAN! 31!

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by cess525 View Post
                        SGU Ships
                        Spoiler:
                        I'm on the "what ship?" boat. I don't think I will beable to ship anyone on that show. It just doesn't seem like there is room for a happy ending on that show ship wise. If there isn't going to be a happy ending I don't want anything to do with it. Forever the fluffy romantic I know but I expect nothing less of myself
                        Also when I watched SG1 the first time I saw the chemistry between Sam and Jack. Now with SGA I never got a "woohoo they belong together" that and I knew that TPTB were mean at writing ship, why torture myself.
                        I don't get any "Woohoo they belong togethers" in SGU. Granted I might be a little picky I only ship in one other show.
                        Spoiler:
                        A little picky? I only watch one other show! That's NCIS, and basically I'd ship Gibbs with anyone if it'd make him happy.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                          I just wanted to tell everyone that I'm really looking forward to Shipmas. I *really* need something cheerful to look forward to and to work on...

                          More sad news:
                          Spoiler:
                          A friend of mine lost his wife tonight after she battled cancer for 8 months. I never knew her personally, but I followed her blog and he has got to be one of the nicest guys - he's smart, hardworking, funny, loyal... and I'm just heartbroken for him. So. My week is just a little on the depressing side.
                          (((((Twilight))))) I'm so so sorry

                          Lovin' the AU conversation
                          sigpic
                          Artwork for All | Sig & avi by JadedWraith

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by VSS View Post
                            I think for Jack especially this is an important thing. He doesn't like her going off without him, and it gets worse as the seasons go by instead of better which makes no military sense at all- so his reluctance doesn't correlate with her growing skills as an officer but rather his growing feelings for her.
                            Yes. Because I think Jack's biggest problem in S8 isn't simply that he's not on SG1 anymore so Sam's going off without him professionally, she's going off without him personally, too, so he's effectively losing every part of her he had. So the irony is he's been so afraid of loving Sam and losing her only to learn it hurts just as much to lose her without every really even having her...

                            It's quite.. you know.. angsty

                            It also serves as basis for the best kind of Post Threads angst, because while we don't see it, and I suspect he gets rather good at sublimating it, Jack's fear for Sam can't have gone away and, like you said, after Threads can only really be worse. That may, in fact, be the biggest sacrifice he - and she - make for their country/planet. And yes, I've got a fic on that one showing it if anyone cares Beachhead and hasn't read it before, because sometime a fic really is the best way to show an idea And if *someone* ever finishes her Shipmas fic, it's a really good example of Jack's greatest fear and the sacrifice they're making...

                            EDIT: And.. speaking of which, Josi's sig right above this when I posted it was randomly her "I'd rather die" Frozen/Abyss sig which pretty much illustrates Jack's situation perfectly *sigh*

                            Comment


                              *sneaks in sneakily*

                              So. I made a Sam/Jack vid all in HD and stuff (for the pure amount of time it takes to render and upload it, it should be up and running smoothly, methinks), only for YouTube - which is now on my On Notice list - to mute the audio because the song must simply be too pretty <3 because there are property issues YouTube must selectively enforce. Oy.

                              Alas. Internets is a big place with lots of vid sites, amirite; and nothing can come in the way of Sam/Jack. *shakes fist at nothing in particular*

                              So, here. Hope you enjoy.

                              I've been caught in between all you wish for, and all you need.

                              Um, merry early Shipmas?
                              you're so cute when you're slurring your speech but they're closing the bar and they want us to leave


                              'What is it, Sebastian? I'm arranging matches.'


                              "Religion is far more of a choice than homosexuality. And the protections that we have, for religion --we protect religion-- and talk about a lifestyle choice! That is absolutely a choice. Gay people don't choose to be gay. At what age did you choose not to be gay?" (Jon Stewart, The King of Common Sense)

                              Comment


                                SGU Ships
                                Spoiler:
                                I don't ship anyone. I hang out on the TJ/Young speculation thread because I like the dynamic and the storyline but I certainly don't *ship* them at all. It's a matter of the characters being interesting. S/J is really the only ship I've got going right now. The only other ship I've ever really been about was J/C on Voyager

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