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Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

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    Originally posted by starlover View Post
    Overall your theory is right Jenn, but still there could be a universe out there where everything went well and S/J came together earlier on! We just hear about the bad universes because you know...they are desperate and search for a way to survive...we would do the same Happy universes don't look for other universes....

    I'm not making any sense at all now right?
    That makes total sense to me. If there's no trouble, there's no story.

    But- as Tolstoy said, "Happy universes are all alike. Every unhappy universe is unhappy in its own way." He did say that, right? At the beginning of Anna Karenina. (Okay, that's not exactly what he said).

    So, if that's true, all those universes have Sam & Jack together in them as well.
    Last edited by VSS; 16 December 2009, 01:50 AM.

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      First off: *hugs Twilight*

      Originally posted by starlover View Post
      Overall your theory is right Jenn, but still there could be a universe out there where everything went well and S/J came together earlier on! We just hear about the bad universes because you know...they are desperate and search for a way to survive...we would do the same Happy universes don't look for other universes....

      I'm not making any sense at all now right?
      That makes sense to me. We can't assume that there is only 1 happy outcome universe. I am sure there are more because like Jann said we only see the ones in trouble because well they only look for other options when they are in trouble.
      sigpic
      GO NEWMAN! 31!

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        Woohoo I make sense

        Just imagine that there are countless of universes out there with S/J together *faints from happy fluffyness...erm...I mean...gutter Happy gutter*
        sigpic

        Comment


          Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
          i just read it. It was Fricking Awesome can't wait to read the Sequel any idea on when thats going to be out?
          The sequel is a WIP on my ff.net site called "Professional Boundaries" - I'm two chapters and an epilogue away from being done - it's just being delayed slightly b/c of all the Shipmas/Secret Santa stuff going on! Next week I should be back to my regularly scheduled writing

          Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
          Actually, I hasten to point out, the two examples of when they do get together early - TbftGoG and PoV - do, in fact, lead to apocalypse. Because if things don't happen just the way they're meant to... Baaad things happen.

          OTOH, I believe the two examples we have in which they *don't* get together (2010 and - throw rotten tomatoes - the future in Ripple Effect responsible for everything in which Jacob doesn't die) *also* lead to cataclysm. As does the one where she gets together with Martouf before Jack.

          I'm just sayin'.... It's gotta be done just right, and that's our way. See?

          *All* the time. From really really early on Jack starts to treat Sam, at least, like his wife. To include, I believe, fidelity though it's unwarranted. The way he treats her/looks out for her/everything...

          *happy sigh*

          It's really very sweet. Only, of course, also angsty because it's completely unrequited.
          Originally posted by VSS View Post
          Yes! Another believer that the fate of the world pivots on Threads. Well- at least it's correlated with the fate of the world. Because if you look at it, in any reality where S/J get together before that time, we get global catastrophe. If they don't get together after that, again, it's literally a disaster.

          So when you say it has to be done right, and that's our way, that may very well be true. That kind of thought process is a derivative of a philosophical theory called the best-of-all-possible-worlds, which was originally thought to be because God set it up that way but in light of quantum physics and the possibility of AUs may actually be true from a strictly scientific viewpoint as well.

          Basically, by process of elimination, we're left with the best world because the other ones don't exist. And that's the world in which they get together at the right time, "our" world.

          So Sam and Jack getting together in Threads isn't the best because it's our way, but it's our way because it's the best.

          See?
          I agree - I think it does have to be "just right" - in my story it costs Earth and if you read the story closely you can see exactly how their relationship changes the course of events, like giving the Trust an "in" to the SGC...

          On a slightly related note to VSS stuff:
          Spoiler:
          John Piper, my pastor, says that we live in the best of all possible worlds (but not b/c of S/J) but because it the one that glorifies God the most.


          Originally posted by starlover View Post
          *huggles tightly*



          Awesome story. READ...if you like AU's ofcourse...still...made out of awesomeness!
          ...now update its sequel*taps foot impatiently*
          You're just going to have to wait LOL Between my Shipmas fic I've got another fic I'm beta reading... huh, I wonder who's that could be... Oh wait...

          LOL


          AND to everyone: thanks for your kind words and thoughts. :: hugs :: I love you guys.

          Comment


            Originally posted by VSS View Post
            Basically, by process of elimination, we're left with the best world because the other ones don't exist. And that's the world in which they get together at the right time, "our" world.
            I believe, from a strictly S/J standpoint, Ripple Effect was actually intended to be a play on that idea. They sort of take 'the history' of Sam/Jack (and Sam/Other) and show us what might-have-been. Assuming, of course, the reason they had no antidote in the Sam-on-maternity-leave Universe was because Sam had been with Martouf (or Jack) during the period of Ascension and therefore never gotten to know Orlin, who therefore did not come to help develop an antidote in 4th Horseman. That's also why I'm convinced Sam was married to Pete in the Evil!AU which caused the entire mess in the first place, because with Sam off on honeymoon and losing her influence over Jack they wouldn't have gone back to Ancient Egypt to retrieve the ZPM to send to Atlantis to save Atlantis to get us a ZPM back on Earth to power the chair to have that as a last line of defense. That's why they didn't have their own ZPM to use in the first place.

            So.

            Yeah.

            Big joke.

            On us.

            Hahahaha.....

            Yes, TPTB. You were right. It had to happen just the way you wrote it. Of course.. we were also right. Sam/Other is Very Bad. Very very bad. See?

            And, no. I don't think I'm entirely wrong in this theory. After all, the episode is called RIPPLE EFFECT, which I believe is a reference to the idea one or two tiny changes in a timeline can drastically alter the outcome in the future. For example, know why I think Janet was still alive? Because the whole reason for the ambush in Heroes was to kill Jack, (remember Adam Baldwin's character tells Jack the ambush was to get him) and if Sam and Jack were involved at that point (which I'm going to assume they were), then Jack would no longer be on the team with her and would have moved somewhere else - therefore, no ambush to get him and no going to rescue the soldier and no dead Janet. Head hurt?

            Of course, that means Janet died because Sam and Jack put off getting together.... Hmmmm....

            Though I admit I love that episode if only because, in that moment Sam and Martouf separate with grateful looks after almost kissing, I can almost *hear* the "Gotcha!" And I've got an evil sense of humor that way.

            Originally posted by cess525 View Post
            That makes sense to me. We can't assume that there is only 1 happy outcome universe. I am sure there are more because like Jann said we only see the ones in trouble because well they only look for other options when they are in trouble.
            Well, yes. I'm assuming Sam got together with Jack more of less the way it happened in our universe in all those other universes in Ripple Effect we learn nothing about. I believe I wrote that into a fic, even

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              Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
              who is that photo from anyway?

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                Originally posted by Lt.Colonel John Sheppard View Post
                If you could make up your Own AU Story what would be the Plot?
                I have an AU story 'A Pond With No Fish'...

                spoilers for fic
                Spoiler:


                It's an AU version of early S9 with Jack retiring and running the SGC as a civilian, Sam moving out of his CoC/authority and the two of them getting together. Wrapped up with some action/adventure stuff with Ba'al, RepliCarter and the Jaffa.



                If I play again with AUs it's likely to either be a sequel to APWNF or I may attempt one of the 'what-if' scenarios from earlier in the show and playing with that...such as 'what if Jack hadn't agreed to keep it in the room in D&C', for example.

                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post

                <snippety-snip-snip>

                Yes, TPTB. You were right. It had to happen just the way you wrote it. Of course.. we were also right. Sam/Other is Very Bad. Very very bad. See?

                <more snippage> For example, know why I think Janet was still alive? Because the whole reason for the ambush in Heroes was to kill Jack, (remember Adam Baldwin's character tells Jack the ambush was to get him) and if Sam and Jack were involved at that point (which I'm going to assume they were), then Jack would no longer be on the team with her and would have moved somewhere else - therefore, no ambush to get him and no going to rescue the soldier and no dead Janet. Head hurt?

                Of course, that means Janet died because Sam and Jack put off getting together.... Hmmmm....

                <snip>
                I really don't remember Dave Dixon telling Jack that the point of the ambush was to get Jack...I may have to go find a transcript or watch Heroes again.

                Hmmm. How to procrastinate over writing the Shipmas fic (for which I now have an idea but the likelihood of it being finished for Shipmas is very remote given how behind I am on my psychology assignment) even more...
                sigpic
                Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

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                  Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                  I have an AU story 'A Pond With No Fish'...

                  spoilers for fic
                  Spoiler:


                  It's an AU version of early S9 with Jack retiring and running the SGC as a civilian, Sam moving out of his CoC/authority and the two of them getting together. Wrapped up with some action/adventure stuff with Ba'al, RepliCarter and the Jaffa.



                  If I play again with AUs it's likely to either be a sequel to APWNF or I may attempt one of the 'what-if' scenarios from earlier in the show and playing with that...such as 'what if Jack hadn't agreed to keep it in the room in D&C', for example.



                  I really don't remember Dave Dixon telling Jack that the point of the ambush was to get Jack...I may have to go find a transcript or watch Heroes again.

                  Hmmm. How to procrastinate over writing the Shipmas fic (for which I now have an idea but the likelihood of it being finished for Shipmas is very remote given how behind I am on my psychology assignment) even more...
                  Sounds like an AU fic that Rachel should write...... :: poke ::

                  And I use fic to procrastinate and you're trying to procrastinate writing fic Just make something up for school... j/k LOL - I don't think I wrote a stitch of fic the entire time I was in college (of course, I didn't know about SG at the time! I probably would have been a drop out if I had)

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                    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                    Sounds like an AU fic that Rachel should write...... :: poke ::

                    And I use fic to procrastinate and you're trying to procrastinate writing fic Just make something up for school... j/k LOL - I don't think I wrote a stitch of fic the entire time I was in college (of course, I didn't know about SG at the time! I probably would have been a drop out if I had)
                    Well, I'm trying to stay focused on Aftershocks fic-wise so unlikely that I'll be writing any AU stuff although I still haven't settled on a plot for day of indulgence so you never know. I promised MG that I'd have vol III finished by the end of the year

                    Yes. I'm glad SG didn't exist the last time I was in Uni; I may never have graduated. As a mature student this time round, I really should know better.
                    sigpic
                    Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                    My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

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                      Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                      I really don't remember Dave Dixon telling Jack that the point of the ambush was to get Jack...I may have to go find a transcript or watch Heroes again.
                      Heroes:
                      Spoiler:
                      O'NEILL: I was told you said there was six Jaffa. Where did you learn to count.

                      Dixon kills two Jaffa, then Teal'c another. We see Sam firing and then an Alkesh coming by for another shot.

                      DIXON: Ships didn't start coming down ‘til it radioed you were through the gate. *Teal'c kills one, Jack another* something tells me they're throwing this party in your honor Jack ... got those clips? *Jack passes spares.*
                      Now, granted, he may have meant SG-1, which I grant is a possibility, or the rescue team, which makes less sense because why the rescue team instead of simply Dixon's own team. Though there's something in the way Dixon said it that always made me think it was *Jack*, and it fits with the RE stuff so I'm sticking to it

                      Or at least, to the theory that it was Jack being on SG-1 and trying to get him/them for *some* reason that, with Jack and Sam not being on the same team, didn't happen in that reality and thus didn't end with Janet dying.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                        Heroes:
                        Spoiler:
                        O'NEILL: I was told you said there was six Jaffa. Where did you learn to count.

                        Dixon kills two Jaffa, then Teal'c another. We see Sam firing and then an Alkesh coming by for another shot.

                        DIXON: Ships didn't start coming down ‘til it radioed you were through the gate. *Teal'c kills one, Jack another* something tells me they're throwing this party in your honor Jack ... got those clips? *Jack passes spares.*
                        Now, granted, he may have meant SG-1, which I grant is a possibility, or the rescue team, which makes less sense because why the rescue team instead of simply Dixon's own team. Though there's something in the way Dixon said it that always made me think it was *Jack*, and it fits with the RE stuff so I'm sticking to it

                        Or at least, to the theory that it was Jack being on SG-1 and trying to get him/them for *some* reason that, with Jack and Sam not being on the same team, didn't happen in that reality and thus didn't end with Janet dying.
                        But now see...I have no reason not to go write! *mutters*

                        I had forgotten that exchange and I agree it fits with your theory although I may stick with my original interpretation (that the Jaffa sent the heavy guns once they realised from Jack's radio message that Dixon's team had been sent reinforcements and back-up).
                        sigpic
                        Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                        My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

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                          Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                          Well, I'm trying to stay focused on Aftershocks fic-wise so unlikely that I'll be writing any AU stuff although I still haven't settled on a plot for day of indulgence so you never know. I promised MG that I'd have vol III finished by the end of the year

                          Yes. I'm glad SG didn't exist the last time I was in Uni; I may never have graduated. As a mature student this time round, I really should know better.
                          I applaud your dedication to Aftershocks LOL - when I set out to write my SC series and then its PB sequel I didn't quite realize what a large project I'd taken on (each chapter in SC averages around 13 pages in Word and PB is a little shorter at around 10). The worst part is that I keep have plot ideas that will require the same amount of work, so they sit on the back burning until I get this finished LOL (of course, I take pauses for shorter works like "Legacy").

                          If I didn't have a toddler I'd probably be here all day... LOL but the kid's gotta eat....

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                            And I use fic to procrastinate and you're trying to procrastinate writing fic Just make something up for school... j/k LOL - I don't think I wrote a stitch of fic the entire time I was in college (of course, I didn't know about SG at the time! I probably would have been a drop out if I had)
                            I thought fic was around to procrastinate with? The other option just sounds so...wrong.
                            As for school its a good thing I didn't know about SG-1 till right before I graduated. Thankfully FB wasn't around till my senior year either. Its even better that the only evil internet thing I had was AIM and since everyone went to class at the same time it wasn't to much of a problem. If I had to do college now...I would be DOOMED!
                            sigpic
                            GO NEWMAN! 31!

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                              Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                              Spoiler:
                              John Piper, my pastor, says that we live in the best of all possible worlds (but not b/c of S/J) but because it the one that glorifies God the most.
                              Yes, that's a direct call back to Leibniz's philosophy.


                              Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                              I believe, from a strictly S/J standpoint, Ripple Effect was actually intended to be a play on that idea. They sort of take 'the history' of Sam/Jack (and Sam/Other) and show us what might-have-been.
                              Spoiler:
                              Assuming, of course, the reason they had no antidote in the Sam-on-maternity-leave Universe was because Sam had been with Martouf (or Jack) during the period of Ascension and therefore never gotten to know Orlin, who therefore did not come to help develop an antidote in 4th Horseman. That's also why I'm convinced Sam was married to Pete in the Evil!AU which caused the entire mess in the first place, because with Sam off on honeymoon and losing her influence over Jack they wouldn't have gone back to Ancient Egypt to retrieve the ZPM to send to Atlantis to save Atlantis to get us a ZPM back on Earth to power the chair to have that as a last line of defense. That's why they didn't have their own ZPM to use in the first place.

                              Hahahaha.....

                              Yes, TPTB. You were right. It had to happen just the way you wrote it. Of course.. we were also right. Sam/Other is Very Bad. Very very bad. See?

                              And, no. I don't think I'm entirely wrong in this theory. After all, the episode is called RIPPLE EFFECT, which I believe is a reference to the idea one or two tiny changes in a timeline can drastically alter the outcome in the future. For example, know why I think Janet was still alive? Because the whole reason for the ambush in Heroes was to kill Jack, (remember Adam Baldwin's character tells Jack the ambush was to get him) and if Sam and Jack were involved at that point (which I'm going to assume they were), then Jack would no longer be on the team with her and would have moved somewhere else - therefore, no ambush to get him and no going to rescue the soldier and no dead Janet. Head hurt?

                              Of course, that means Janet died because Sam and Jack put off getting together.... Hmmmm....

                              Though I admit I love that episode if only because, in that moment Sam and Martouf separate with grateful looks after almost kissing, I can almost *hear* the "Gotcha!" And I've got an evil sense of humor that way.

                              Well, yes. I'm assuming Sam got together with Jack more of less the way it happened in our universe in all those other universes in Ripple Effect we learn nothing about. I believe I wrote that into a fic, even

                              I thought that someone was going to come on this thread and accuse me of thinking too much.

                              Now I find I'm seriously outclassed by Jenn.

                              I actually hadn't thought about each team in TRE, since we don't know for sure if their worlds are really going to end- they might yet end up with ZPMs. But what you've pointed out seems right to me.

                              Actually, I think SGU is another very effective way for TPTB to show that we ought to be happy with how they wrote S/J. If there's a happy ship by the end of that series, I'll eat my hat.

                              Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                              Heroes:
                              Spoiler:
                              O'NEILL: I was told you said there was six Jaffa. Where did you learn to count.

                              Dixon kills two Jaffa, then Teal'c another. We see Sam firing and then an Alkesh coming by for another shot.

                              DIXON: Ships didn't start coming down ‘til it radioed you were through the gate. *Teal'c kills one, Jack another* something tells me they're throwing this party in your honor Jack ... got those clips? *Jack passes spares.*
                              Now, granted, he may have meant SG-1, which I grant is a possibility, or the rescue team, which makes less sense because why the rescue team instead of simply Dixon's own team. Though there's something in the way Dixon said it that always made me think it was *Jack*, and it fits with the RE stuff so I'm sticking to it
                              I've always thought the same about what Dixon says. (I love Dixon, that rant on kids is a classic). I think it's because he says "Something tells me they're throwing this party in your honor, Jack...." mentioning Jack by name.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by VSS View Post
                                Yes, that's a direct call back to Leibniz's philosophy.
                                Wouldn't surprise me, my pastor has a doctorate and knows philosophy very well. I however, am still learning LOL

                                I thought that someone was going to come on this thread and accuse me of thinking too much.

                                Now I find I'm seriously outclassed by Jenn.

                                I actually hadn't thought about each team in TRE, since we don't know for sure if their worlds are really going to end- they might yet end up with ZPMs. But what you've pointed out seems right to me.

                                Actually, I think SGU is another very effective way for TPTB to show that we ought to be happy with how they wrote S/J. If there's a happy ship by the end of that series, I'll eat my hat.

                                I've always thought the same about what Dixon says. (I love Dixon, that rant on kids is a classic). I think it's because he says "Something tells me they're throwing this party in your honor, Jack...." mentioning Jack by name.
                                I think it's hard to out think Jenn. Sometimes my brain just starts to hurt and I run off to read fic to ease my aching head LOL (It's even better if Jenn writes a fic that explains her theory)

                                And I agree about SGU:
                                Spoiler:
                                I have a theory over on that side that Young is the "anti-O'Neill" - he carried on at one point a relationship with a subordinate (and I get the feeling that the relationship was *not* ego based but two people who were in a similar situation that came to deeply care about each other. There's a great scene (one of the best I think so far in the series) where Young and O'Neill are talking and Young talks about how he always respected O'Neill because he was willing to break the rules - and for those of us that know Jack, we know that there are only very particular times Jack would break rules. ... but that's a different thread


                                As for "Heroes" - I think in my head I always thought the collective SG-1 only because I don't know why it would be just Jack. Wasn't it Anubis' troops they were fighting? I can't remember.

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