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Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

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    Originally posted by kusanagi View Post
    Time travels is always difficult subject to write about. I know that the fish in Jack's pond was a joke (I listened to the commentaries). I like to think that nothing changed apart from the fish, and I mean nothing. IMO the problem is that we think to much and take Moebius too seriously (Moebius is not serious ).
    I can live with Continuum though, because as far as we know, there is no differences whatsoever.
    I feel much the same way about Moebius. I think it was written as a humor piece and wasn't intended to be given as much thought as we around her tend to do (I know I'm guilty of overthinking LOL). I think it falls somewhere between "200" and a regular episode in that yes, the things happened, but there aren't any really serious or actual side effects other than some fish in Jack's pond LOL (which I still say represents Sam... but that's just me)

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      Originally posted by kusanagi View Post
      Time travels is always difficult subject to write about. I know that the fish in Jack's pond was a joke (I listened to the commentaries). I like to think that nothing changed apart from the fish, and I mean nothing. IMO the problem is that we think to much and take Moebius too seriously (Moebius is not serious ).
      I can live with Continuum though, because as far as we know, there is no differences whatsoever.
      Well... remember.. This is *Jack* we're talking about. He might quite honestly have been joking about there being no fish for ages because it deflected from the depth of his desire to go fishing with Sam (and his general emotional vulnerability shown through his fishing) and, Jack-like, developed the joke as self-protection. We have a similar joke here in which I always refer to fish as mythological creatures simply because my luck fishing is atrocious... I'd always wondered if perhaps there always were fish in the pond.. Jack just can never catch any.

      This actually goes along with the symbolism of fishing = Sam because, now that he can go fishing with Sam (both ways), Jack's need to make jokes about his inability to fish, just like his overall need to hide his vulnerability and pain behind humor, has greatly diminished.

      EDIT: Yeah! I've made it to #50 and Marking Time in my indexing of my fics (that's 50 down from 76, not up from 1 unfortunately)... *sigh* So. Hard...

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        Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
        {{snipped}}
        Going straight from the conference room scene at the end of Threads to Daniel's lab at the end of Moebius, or from the end of the Tok'ra singing to the successful extraction of Ba'al, just like going from Shepherd's stepping through the gate to get back to Atlantis in Last Man to successfully arriving back and helping alter the timeline are old!Teal'c handing Sam the solution rather than pushing that button are the ways it's *always* happened to the Sam and Jack (and the rest of the Universe) who walk away discussing Moonbases at the end of Continuum. For them, there's never been any other timeline.
        {{snipped}}
        So then it's very much like what happens in "1969" with Hammond?
        Last edited by UhSir; 09 January 2010, 03:17 PM.

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          Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
          Well... remember.. This is *Jack* we're talking about. He might quite honestly have been joking about there being no fish for ages because it deflected from the depth of his desire to go fishing with Sam (and his general emotional vulnerability shown through his fishing) and, Jack-like, developed the joke as self-protection. We have a similar joke here in which I always refer to fish as mythological creatures simply because my luck fishing is atrocious... I'd always wondered if perhaps there always were fish in the pond.. Jack just can never catch any.

          This actually goes along with the symbolism of fishing = Sam because, now that he can go fishing with Sam (both ways), Jack's need to make jokes about his inability to fish, just like his overall need to hide his vulnerability and pain behind humor, has greatly diminished.

          EDIT: Yeah! I've made it to #50 and Marking Time in my indexing of my fics (that's 50 down from 76, not up from 1 unfortunately)... *sigh* So. Hard...
          This is actually a good point, but I think there is a scene when he listens to himself recorded on the camera and when it comes to: "there is no fish in my pond", his (very funny) reaction indicates there is otherwise. Like he knows it's not true, not in this timeline (or maybe it's just me ).
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            You know, sometimes I even amaze myself...

            Last nite, whilst losing another round to the Insomnia Beast, I was digging through the Shipper archives... Ah, those were some good times! So many Shippers I'd nearly forgotten, loads and loads of Shipping goodness, hysterical upcoming-episode speculations
            (especially in light of how the eps and series actually played out), old spoilers and interviews, and even the Red Dinger! lol Those were the days...

            So anyway, I was searching for the pages of the old, old thread that we filled up during the original UK-premiere airing of Threads (for those who weren't around back then, the UK's Sky channel was about a good month ahead of us here on this side of the pond). I was utterly heartbroken when I discovered that everything from December 13th, 2004 until the day *after* that airing, February 9th, 2005 has been hopelessly lost in the vast depths of cyberspace. <le sigh>

            So what's a Shipper looking to relive those rosy-nostalgic times to do?

            Watch Threads, of course!

            I still cheered the opening "Previously on SG1" flashbacks.
            I still had to watch certain scenes through squinty eyes.
            I still love Jack-in-boxers.
            I still couldn't care less about Daniel's waffles.
            I still woo-hoo'd every time Anubis whistled "Amazing Grace".
            I still wanted to smack Sam upside the head when she tried (and failed miserably) to convince Dad she was happy.
            I still whimpered, twice, at that painfully forced smile of Jack's as he told Sam to go "pick flowers."
            I still cheered Dad for making it his final mission to get Sam and Jack together.
            I still like Kerry for bowing out so very Grace-fully.
            I still got teary-eyed when Sam thanked Jack for being there for her and he told her he always would be.
            I still laughed my a$$ off at Bratac's shtick-eating grin when Daniel came out of Jack's office with the SGC flag wrapped around his nekkidness.
            And I'm still wondering if the Shippers down under heard my SQUEEEEE!!!! when Sam and Jack went *Fishing* for the very first time.

            And then... I did the very same thing that I did all those years ago as soon as I managed to get a copy of the episode. I made a vid. The vid. The same one I made back then, sort of. The redux of my video for the amazing and oh-so-perfect for the Ship duet, "After All". But not the same rendition--this time I used that terrifically awesome live-recording I shared with y'all not too long ago.

            Most of this redux is the same as my first version, but I swapped a few scenes out here and there--and added a couple of clips that weren't yet available back then. And if I may indulge in a moment of pure vanity, I'll even go so far as to say that *this* new version is very, very, *very* much improved over the original I made way, way, way back when.

            Enjoy!

            After All ~ The Redux
            Love and hot fudge,
            Bren Ren
            ~
            My stories!
            ~

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              Originally posted by UhSir View Post
              So then it's very much like what happens in "1969" with Hammond?
              That's actually the one of all of them which is, IMHO, the most confusing. It seems to use a different theory of time travel from the others entirely in which you don't alter the timeline but rather become a part of it because I can't imagine a version in which they don't have a not the first time, end up trapped back there because of it and then Hammond realizes what's going on so the second time through he sends the note back so they have it... But I guess such a scenario is possible and thus it is...

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                Originally posted by kusanagi View Post
                Time travels is always difficult subject to write about. I know that the fish in Jack's pond was a joke (I listened to the commentaries). I like to think that nothing changed apart from the fish, and I mean nothing. IMO the problem is that we think to much and take Moebius too seriously (Moebius is not serious ).
                I can live with Continuum though, because as far as we know, there is no differences whatsoever.

                Yes, that's exactly what I have to say on the subject.


                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                Well... remember.. This is *Jack* we're talking about. He might quite honestly have been joking about there being no fishfor ages because it deflected from the depth of his desire to go fishing with Sam (and his general emotional vulnerability shown through his fishing) and, Jack-like, developed the joke as self-protection. We have a similar joke here in which I always refer to fish as mythological creatures simply because my luck fishing is atrocious... I'd always wondered if perhaps there always were fish in the pond.. Jack just can never catch any.
                <snipped>
                Regarding the bolded, that's what I've always thought too. I think he's just lousy at fishing (or, at least, he was until he went fishing with Sam) and there were fish there all along. So the joke of Moebius is just a Simpsons in-joke and a play on a series long tease and that's it.

                So to me the whole debate about the fish being there in Moebius is moot, because, IMO actually, nothing at all changed, timeline wise. That way I don't have to actually get a headache thinking about it or get narked or frustrated at things that may or may not have never happened.


                *hands my portion of TL Asprin to someone more needy.*
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                  Originally posted by kusanagi View Post
                  Time travels is always difficult subject to write about. I know that the fish in Jack's pond was a joke (I listened to the commentaries). I like to think that nothing changed apart from the fish, and I mean nothing. IMO the problem is that we think to much and take Moebius too seriously (Moebius is not serious ).
                  I can live with Continuum though, because as far as we know, there is no differences whatsoever.
                  This is exactly why I don't listen to the commentaries. For me, the ordinary viewer, the fish is very real. If they want to do it as a joke then put that version on the DVD in the "deleted scenes" extras and broadcast the version without the fish.

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                    Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
                    I still like Kerry for bowing out so very Grace-fully.
                    See? Because... Grace is an adjective.

                    Looks sort of like this:

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                      Originally posted by UhSir View Post
                      This is exactly why I don't listen to the commentaries. For me, the ordinary viewer, the fish is very real. If they want to do it as a joke then put that version on the DVD in the "deleted scenes" extras and broadcast the version without the fish.
                      I don't think, though, the 'ordinary viewer' gives two flying leaping fish if there are fish in the pond or not. It's only us 'fans' who over think it and who generally listen to things like commentaries and thus are expected to 'get it'. Though we got it here right away having caught the Simpson's reference... and the fact Jack was probably just joking all along about there not having been fish given his propensity to joke, and just let it go at that.

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                        Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                        I don't think, though, the 'ordinary viewer' gives two flying leaping fish if there are fish in the pond or not. It's only us 'fans' who over think it and who generally listen to things like commentaries and thus are expected to 'get it'. Though we got it here right away having caught the Simpson's reference... and the fact Jack was probably just joking all along about there not having been fish given his propensity to joke, and just let it go at that.





                        I would love to stay around for a bit longer but I'm dropping off (blame hangover ).So I'll catch you tomorrow guys


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                          Okay okay, it's time for a mini fic based on the FB group about PI the date... and s/j. This is because my head hurts - from Moebius, time travel, Pet Society, and LJ (kicks LJ again - tedious tedious tedious)...

                          Spoiler:

                          Something was up. That's about as far as Jack had gotten as he watched Sam pull her long hair down and started twirling it around her finger. She kept looking at her watch, then looking at him as he "read" his newspaper. Then she'd look at her watch again and take a sip of water. Then look at her watch again.

                          "Do you know something I don't know?" he asked with exasperation. She got a funny look on her face.

                          "What are you talking about?"

                          "You keep...fidgeting. I know you. You don't fidget."

                          "I do so fidget."

                          He leveled his gaze. "The last time you fidgeted you sprung it on me that Vala was going to stay with us for two days."

                          "Vala is not staying with us," she reassured. "Ever again."

                          Jack raised his eyebrow. "Okay..." Sam glanced at her watch again and he tossed the newspaper aside. "You're doing it again! What is going on??"

                          She bit her lip before getting up and making her way to him. With a secretive grin she slid down on his lap. "You'll know in," she looked at her watch. "5...4...3...2...1!" Grabbing his head she pressed her lips tightly to his and he eagerly opened his mouth to give her access but was disappointed when she pulled back.

                          "I'm confused," he whispered. "I thought maybe we were... you know... going fishing..."

                          "Happy PI!" she practically squealed. "It is March 14, 2015 9:26:53... well I kissed you on the 53 second mark." At his bewildered expression she sighed. "The number... pi... 3.142015 et cetera et cetera? The ratio of the -" Suddenly she was interrupted by his lips pressed against hers.

                          By the time they parted her face was flushed and Jack smiled widely. "You are such a geek. But you're my geek and you can fish so as I was saying." He waggled his eyebrows suggestively.

                          "Do you not care that it was a ONE time event EVER?" she cried as he picked her up and started carrying her towards the bedroom, her face contorted in a look of mock dismay.

                          "Which is why we should celebrate such a historic event," he answered plopping her on the bed. "Wait here and I'll get the whipped cream."

                          As he walked out towards the kitchen Sam called out after him. "Don't forget the maraschino cherries!!"

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                            Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                            I don't think, though, the 'ordinary viewer' gives two flying leaping fish if there are fish in the pond or not. It's only us 'fans' who over think it and who generally listen to things like commentaries and thus are expected to 'get it'. Though we got it here right away having caught the Simpson's reference... and the fact Jack was probably just joking all along about there not having been fish given his propensity to joke, and just let it go at that.
                            But I know, personally, ordinary viewers who are fans but do not jump out on the internet to discuss it nor do they pop in the DVD and listen to the commentaries. They watch the show because they like the show. Period. For them, the show is what is shown to them. Do they not qualify as being a fan?

                            I don't know anything about the Simpson's so I don't know what is being referenced. In the later seasons there were too many homages and references and inside jokes for me. I'd reached a point where I felt like the stupid fan and wondered why I even watched anymore since I never seemed to "get it."

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                              Originally posted by UhSir View Post
                              But I know, personally, ordinary viewers who are fans but do not jump out on the internet to discuss it nor do they pop in the DVD and listen to the commentaries. They watch the show because they like the show. Period. For them, the show is what is shown to them. Do they not qualify as being a fan?
                              No. I'd say they're regular viewers. I'd say being a fan requires something more than regular viewing and enjoyment (I assume regular viewing generally involves enjoyment... though tbh the same may not be true for being a 'fan' ) But that's just semantics.

                              My point was just I don't think people who simply watch and enjoy the show and don't really get into analysis et al - in general - are going to do much thinking about the greater ramifications of there being fish in the pond or not. It's simply a joke meant to amuse. Like, as someone said, all of Moebius, really. And, frankly, though I delight in overanalyzing it, that's probably the purpose of most of what happens on the show.

                              (which is true for most TV except possibly Sanctuary, the purpose of which is apparently to determine the tensile strength of Helen Magnus.. but I digress)

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                                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                                No. I'd say they're regular viewers. I'd say being a fan requires something more than regular viewing and enjoyment (I assume regular viewing generally involves enjoyment... though tbh the same may not be true for being a 'fan' ) But that's just semantics.
                                {{snipped}}
                                Being a fan requires one thing: devotion to a subject. Devotion such as someone who, when their cable provider removed SciFi from the basic lineup, asked me to record the episodes for them so they could keep watching because they couldn't afford to pay for the premium service.

                                We... are fanatics. We would have sold our souls to pay for the premium service just to keep watching this one show.

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