Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
    There will be no more waiting...no more anticipation...no more excitement over expecting *that* moment. It's sort of like the day after Christmas, when all the presents have been opened and suddenly there's nothing left to look forward to.
    I can understand what you mean, but eventually you have to open your presents. I do love that anticipation, but it just gets to a point where we need to move forward. I, too, get a little sad after Christmas is over, but you also have new and wonderful things in your possession. I want the wonderfulness of SJ confirmation. It's like that gift you wanted and wanted and wanted and finally, FINALLY, someone gave it to you.

    Yes, it will be different now you have it, but the way I see it...it's one of two things. Either we never find out what happens to SJ or we do. Either way, it's the end of their on screen story. If we never see them again, we just have to guess. We have to leave the present sitting there, wrapped up in mystery. If we get confirmation in what may be the last movie, their last apperance, then we know it ends well and they can ride off into the sunset. With wrapping paper flying behind them.

    Comment


      Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
      I mean, for me, the beauty of the S/J story is the entirety of everything we've seen up to this point. The growth of the characters. The struggles they've endured. The peaks and valleys of their personal and professional lives. The arc of *their* story amidst the backdrop of the greater story that is SG1. And while I firmly believe with both my heart *and* my head that they are finally and without any doubt whatsoever together now, actually *seeing* them together will, in effect--for me, at least--bring *their* story to a conclusion. There will be no more waiting...no more anticipation...no more excitement over expecting *that* moment. It's sort of like the day after Christmas, when all the presents have been opened and suddenly there's nothing left to look forward to. Don't get me wrong: I love Christmas (and S/J together on screen), but I also know how it is for me, personally. Because this will be the period at the end of the sentence. The "finis" at the end of the book. No more "to be continued"s. No longer any need to eagerly look forward to what might come next. And I'll miss that.

      And I have no illusions that this is only my own odd take. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to the all too transitory nature of joy. But you know us cavern dwellers. For every bright side there has to be some darkness.

      I'll just slink back in my cave and be quiet now.
      Thanks for coming out and sharing. We miss you when you're gone!

      Comment


        Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
        What really supports your point that they were always meant to be together, and 'the other' arc was just a tool to get them together, is that the episode was named "Chimera". And even in the commentary they explain that means 'illusion or fantasy' (or words to that effect). Which I think means they always knew where they were going and it was always a device to get Sam and Jack together... Like you said
        Ah, the Shippiness in the episode titles. I remember way, way, waaaaaay back when the samandjack yahoo group was alive and thriving, we had a discussion or six on the various Shippy interpretations of episode titles.

        Like, after Grace, the next episode was titled Fall Out, which lead directly into Chimera, the illusion/fantasy, and indeed, that arc was fall out from her head-injury induced hallucinations. It was but an illusion for Sam, one that couldn't hold a candle to her relationship with Jack, and one she easily saw through when Fifth transported her consciousness directly into that fantasy world to manipulate her. Unfortunately, it took her a lot longer in *Real Life* to see the chimera for what it was...

        Then there's Shades of Gray -- the murky waters slowly blurring the regs line between Sam and Jack, maybe?

        Oh, and Small Victories -- they saved the world, spent a week stranded with only Teal'c for chaperon, and yet she still wouldn't accept that fishing invitation. Small victories indeed.

        Hmmm... Oh, yes, the obvious Beneath the Surface implications are all fabulous. Beneath the surface of the proper soldiers are a man and a woman inevitably drawn to one another. Beneath the surface of the memory stamps, they still remember feeling *feelings*. Beneath the surface of one little three letter word lies an impenetrable, invisible wall of duty, honor, and Air Force regulations.

        And one of my favorites, Desperate Measures. For this one, I'm gonna use pictures...

        Sam goes missing, and Jack will do anything to find her...


        Bargain with a homeless guy...


        Deal with Maybourne...


        Even put on the clothes he abhors (but looks so good in!) and deal with another Washington suit he can't stand...


        He manages to rescue her in the nick of time...


        And promptly gets himself shot for his efforts...

        I swear, it seriously looks like she's copping a feel in this cap... Or is that my foggy Shipper lenses acting up again?


        At any rate, she's right there by his bedside after his injury, in case he needs her (if she only knew how much he does!)...
        Love and hot fudge,
        Bren Ren
        ~
        My stories!
        ~

        sigpic

        Comment


          Originally posted by majorsal View Post
          sugarshaker, honey, welcome home!!

          remember when we freaked about the pete-proposal pic so much, that joe mallozzi came in to calm us down?

          Ah, memories. Anyone have his actual words on hand? What freaks me out is how long ago it was!!


          Going to add: Is there anything wrong with a book or a movie where there is definite resolution at the end? Yet, so seldom do we get it in TV series. Yeah, I know why, it would mess up things, and they'd have to break them up later on. It's in the nature of TV. But what wpuld be the problem now?
          Last edited by Gatetrixer; 03 January 2010, 07:58 PM.

          Comment


            Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
            I mean, for me, the beauty of the S/J story is the entirety of everything we've seen up to this point. The growth of the characters. The struggles they've endured. The peaks and valleys of their personal and professional lives. The arc of *their* story amidst the backdrop of the greater story that is SG1. And while I firmly believe with both my heart *and* my head that they are finally and without any doubt whatsoever together now, actually *seeing* them together will, in effect--for me, at least--bring *their* story to a conclusion. There will be no more waiting...no more anticipation...no more excitement over expecting *that* moment. It's sort of like the day after Christmas, when all the presents have been opened and suddenly there's nothing left to look forward to. Don't get me wrong: I love Christmas (and S/J together on screen), but I also know how it is for me, personally. Because this will be the period at the end of the sentence. The "finis" at the end of the book. No more "to be continued"s. No longer any need to eagerly look forward to what might come next. And I'll miss that.

            And I have no illusions that this is only my own odd take. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to the all too transitory nature of joy. But you know us cavern dwellers. For every bright side there has to be some darkness.

            I'll just slink back in my cave and be quiet now.
            you know, i understand what you're saying.

            but there's got to be an end of the chase at some point, or it just becomes a fruitless task.

            i like to look at it as the end of one chapter (longest chapter in history! ), and just the beginning of another. maybe the next chapter is them simply being happy together. i'm a sap.

            (((astraperaspera)))
            sally

            sigpic

            Comment


              Originally posted by Gatetrixer View Post
              Ah, memories. "Those were the days" Anyone have his actual words on hand? What freaks me out is how long ago it was!!
              i can't remember his exact words, but it was something along the line of, 'even though this event looks like it's going to happen, it ain't, so don't worry'.
              sally

              sigpic

              Comment


                Originally posted by hedwig View Post
                Yep. There is ... though not near as popular as ours.
                indeed not....no other thread can lay claim to the title of "Thread Breaker" as we have....

                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                :: wanders into thread feeling dejected ::

                WHY! WHY did I not keep a notebook by my bed??? Last night as I drifted off I had this fantastic idea for my story for how the scene should play out but now it's GONE. GONE I tell you. I'm staring helplessly at my half written scene trying to remember WHAT it was...

                :: mutters ::

                :: mutter some more ::
                ((((((((Shannon))))))))

                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                LOL Thanks, I did come up with another idea which I know is different from what I had before (if I knew what it was I had before), but I think I like the direction. It's the final chapter of a series I'm doing and believe it or not I'm finding it one of the hardest chapters to write. LOL

                I love tea - I have a clear teapot and use loose leaf teas.

                Y'know... I wonder if Sam would drink tea?
                I could see Jack introducing Teal'c to it after he got rid of Junior as a source of antioxidants....

                Originally posted by josiane View Post
                Ah but Helen's English. We are born with intravenous tea drips over here


                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                Yes well, that's NORMAL tea LOL - I drink weird tea like Azteca Fire (strawberry, chocolate, chili pepper) or orange tea or jasmine tea...

                I would peg her as a regular tea drinker, but maybe something to help put her mind to rest at night before going to bed. Something mild and soothing.
                the Azteca Fire one sounds interesting...will have to see if I can find it anywhere around here....

                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                It is possible!!! You can do it!! Be active in discussions... and when I got to the last 100 posts I did this: 100 Looks of Jack

                Took me two or three days... LOL



                Yes, yes me too. So angsty. So guttery. :: drooooool ::



                Would believe I did all 1700 in the last six months? Yes, when I joined I was averaging 100 posts a year. A YEAR. Then something in my brain exploded.
                I wondered what all the bits and pieces of gray matter was all over the old thread...

                Originally posted by JackandSamAddict View Post
                *sigh* I so agree. I don't mind subtle. A BHK would be nice, but I would like something simple and to the point. Oh, especially rings...SO MARRIED!

                Definitely NO wiggle room. Oh, ship...how I love thee.
                I concur....

                Comment


                  For those of you who don't read the fic thread but like fic . . .

                  Linking to the journal because of the rating. . . http://rowan-d.livejournal.com/

                  'Rocket Fuel'.

                  Holly Hannah was it good!
                  sigpic
                  Thanks to Oma-1 for the beautiful banner!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by leiasky View Post
                    For those of you who don't read the fic thread but like fic . . .

                    Linking to the journal because of the rating. . . http://rowan-d.livejournal.com/

                    'Rocket Fuel'.

                    Holly Hannah was it good!
                    Thanks for the rec, that was a really great fic!!
                    sigpic
                    Sig by Everlovin My YT|My other vid site|My LJ|My Photobucket|My ImageShack|"Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty" by hlndncr

                    Comment


                      Books/canon/subtle vs non-subtle shipping

                      I loved the Star Trek books and will agree with those who think Imzadi is fantastic but none of it is canon for me. I haven't yet read the Stargate books but again none of it is canon for me.

                      Officially, TPTB don't read or consider the books in the show's canon; officially the books cannot change show canon and that kind of weights it for me.

                      I guess I consider the books "official" fanfiction at the end of the day. Great to read to get inside the character's heads, great to read them having more adventures but at the end of the day no more than that.

                      Novelisations do probably sit on the line as they are novelisations of the show's episodes and therefore "canon" events.

                      And I guess this is where I will say that I get irritated with the lack of onscreen confirmation for Sam/Jack because any author is going to have to select the words to describe their relationship in a novelisation based on what has been explicitly on-screen for the last ten plus years and, despite all the interpretative evidence of the characterisation since S8, ultimately the status of Sam and Jack's relationship is ambiguous in explicit on-screen canon.

                      Air novelisation
                      Spoiler:

                      I actually think the word choice of 'old friend' Swallow used was the most personal he could have gotten without changing that canon "ambiguity" view of the relationship.

                      And that ultimately what he hoped to portray/hint at in those few lines was that personal angle - that Jack was concerned and pleased about Sam's survival not General O'Neill about Colonel Carter; that she had an importance to him outside of the uniforms.


                      Which is why, for all I interpret the show in S9/S10/the movies/SGA/SGU and believe Sam and Jack are together, for all that I love the ship's subtlety throughout the years SG1 was a TV show and wouldn't necessarily change 99.9% of how it's been portrayed, for all it's great to hear TPTB talking about Sam and Jack as though they're in a relationship, it's why I want to see one moment which confirms that on-screen.

                      For me, the journey is great and yes, reaching a destination is a bittersweet moment of grief in something ending but it is also mixed with the joy of achievement. And as the tag line for the new series of Doctor Who goes, the end is just the beginning...
                      sigpic
                      Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                      My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                      Comment


                        And for those that are vaguely interested, I ended up doing a round-up of all my fic from 2009.

                        2009 Review/2010 Goals

                        Also dropping off the latest Aftershock which has Sam/Jack UST. TAG to S6's Disclosure.

                        Continuing Admissions
                        sigpic
                        Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                        My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
                          And one of my favorites, Desperate Measures.
                          I totally think there are double meanings in many of the episodes and agree. In fact, I made a play on that one specifically within my latest Being There installments and, really, most of those chapter titles are themselves plays on the actual title

                          Upgrades is another one...
                          Originally posted by BrenRen View Post
                          Even put on the clothes he abhors (but looks so good in!) and deal with another Washington suit he can't stand...
                          Which is, IMHO, one of the absolute best pieces of evidence Sam and Jack get together after Threads. What else except Sam could possibly get Jack to do that full time?
                          Originally posted by Gatetrixer View Post
                          Going to add: Is there anything wrong with a book or a movie where there is definite resolution at the end? Yet, so seldom do we get it in TV series. Yeah, I know why, it would mess up things, and they'd have to break them up later on. It's in the nature of TV. But what wpuld be the problem now?
                          There's not, really. Which is why I think we've been slowly getting more confirmations off-screen that various members of TPTB and AT herself believe Sam and Jack have been together for some time. My personal theory is still that Threads was truly meant to be Absolute Resolution of the relationship (just as I believe Lost City was originally meant to be that before they got renewed for S8 and Grace/Chimera et al were set up for it happening *then*) and when they got renewed for S9, because RDA was leaving the show, they figured they could still resolve Sam/Jack. Then I have this image of The Network Note from Shipper Hell which kept them from absolutely confirming 100% that Sam and Jack were really together in S9 and then also in S10 because 'the suits' in that oxymoron referred to as Conventional TV Wisdom wanted to keep their options open in that regard as long as possible. So, while it was generally accepted at that point that Sam's backstory was Sam-with-Jack, and that's how she was written and played by most of those involved, it was never confirmed outright on screen Just In Case.

                          Now, though, with so many other fish to fry and so much water under that particular bridge (and maybe the script for #3 written?) the suits no longer really care and so the gag on Sam/Jack's situation has been lifted and TPTB et al are free to say what they believe - that Sam and Jack are together.

                          Like I said, all just my personal opinion, but there ya go

                          Plus, of course, there is the very real fact that in keeping resolution vague they avoid infuriating that very real segment of Stargate fandom that does NOT want Sam and Jack to get together... Though from what I've seen of TPTB, I really can't see fear of angering fans as being much of a motivation for them.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                            Books/canon/subtle vs non-subtle shipping

                            I loved the Star Trek books and will agree with those who think Imzadi is fantastic but none of it is canon for me. I haven't yet read the Stargate books but again none of it is canon for me.

                            Officially, TPTB don't read or consider the books in the show's canon; officially the books cannot change show canon and that kind of weights it for me.

                            I guess I consider the books "official" fanfiction at the end of the day. Great to read to get inside the character's heads, great to read them having more adventures but at the end of the day no more than that.

                            <snip>
                            I'm with those who don't consider books to be canon. But you mentioned Doctor Who in your post Rachel. And that reminded me of last year's Torchwood BBC radio dramas. These are full-cast radio plays set in between season 2 and 3, and I guess that they are approved by TPTB. They had some interesting as well as shippy stuff and went right into my canon folder.
                            Spoiler:
                            One of them, The Dead Line, includes a wonderfully shippy and somehow ominous monologue of Ianto.

                            Why oh why couldn't they do something like that for SG, too?
                            Spoiler:
                            Yeah I know why, the reality of British TV is completely different to that in U.S.

                            But then again wouldn't it be nice to listen to for instance Jack admitting his feelings to Sam even if it were his inner thoughts?


                            And to make up for somewhat OT post:

                            "Y'know, I can be as diplomatic and open-minded as anyone."
                            Colonel Jack O'Neill

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by AstraPerAspera View Post
                              I mean, for me, the beauty of the S/J story is the entirety of everything we've seen up to this point. The growth of the characters. The struggles they've endured. The peaks and valleys of their personal and professional lives. The arc of *their* story amidst the backdrop of the greater story that is SG1. And while I firmly believe with both my heart *and* my head that they are finally and without any doubt whatsoever together now, actually *seeing* them together will, in effect--for me, at least--bring *their* story to a conclusion. There will be no more waiting...no more anticipation...no more excitement over expecting *that* moment. It's sort of like the day after Christmas, when all the presents have been opened and suddenly there's nothing left to look forward to. Don't get me wrong: I love Christmas (and S/J together on screen), but I also know how it is for me, personally. Because this will be the period at the end of the sentence. The "finis" at the end of the book. No more "to be continued"s. No longer any need to eagerly look forward to what might come next. And I'll miss that.

                              And I have no illusions that this is only my own odd take. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to the all too transitory nature of joy. But you know us cavern dwellers. For every bright side there has to be some darkness.

                              I'll just slink back in my cave and be quiet now.
                              Oooh no missy. You don't go back to lurking quite so easily you know. You're back now and we love you (well I do anyway ) and we want more of you.

                              Pretty please with a Jack on top?

                              *lassoes APA and drags her back into the thread*


                              And on what you said... yes, I completely understand where you are coming from. A lot of it, for me, was the journey. It always is as much as anything else. I understand the nature of TV is that it can't really ever be resolved until it's over.

                              I deliberately didn't let myself get invested in Sam/Jack as much as I could. Hence why, when I said yesterday, I saw the ship, enjoyed if for what it was but wasn't of a mind to want it resolved at all until, IMO, they went right ahead and did it in Threads.
                              For me, a lot of the reason for that was fear that, frankly, it would go the way of other ships that I'd seen mangled. Like some others on here I was a huge Mulder / Scully shipper and... well I'll save you the fuming rant I normally spew forth but I still haven't really gotten over the fact they had this wonderful, perfect, beautiful, sexy, angsty thing and they ruined it so badly that, by the time they were prepared to show them as a couple, most of us shippers didn't care. Yep, I know; when I got my M/S BHK it made me angry and think "too bloody late mate" rather than squee.
                              Anyway, I came out of that thinking it's far too stupid to take a TV show so seriously to get that upset over it (plus a whole heap of personal life stuff going on) and I guess I vowed not to do the same again.

                              Hmm, it's a bit like a bad relationship. I made quite a habit of picking bad ships for quite some time.

                              So when Sam/Jack entered my life I decided to just enjoy the journey without anticipation of any resolution. What we've had so far is more than I could ever have imagined so it's fair to say I am more than happy with it. Not that I won't be overjoyed to get more, of course.

                              I will be a little sad when they show us unequivocal proof. I'll be sad because the journey is over, but in a way happy that the destination is such a warm and fuzzy place. Much as I adore the angst, I like to have it sweetened by the happy ending too.
                              If I thought for one moment that SG-1 was alive and kicking and going to make a dozen more movies I'd probably want them to hold off on the confirmation. But, realistically this third movie is likely going to be the last (or one of the last) so the journey - as far as on screen action is concerned at least - is as good as over anyway. If there was ever a time to do it, it's long past IMO.


                              One other thing - just a random rambling based on something someone (Pol I think) said. I do believe that resolution was the endgame yes. Maybe not from the very start but certainly once it became apparent that it was a huge part of who these characters were and what motivated them. I keep thinking about Lost City and how this was originally supposed to be the script for the first movie - before they decided on a season 7 instead - and how the original script was much shippier and had that longed for kiss. The fact that they originally wrote a movie with resolution/confirmation in it just proves that it was the intent of TPTB all along. The only reason we got the "dumbed down" (for wont of a better phrase) version when Lost City became season 7 finale was because another series was on the cards and it would have changed the dynamic drastically... which is kind of bizzare to say, since the dynamic did change in season 8 anyway with Jack being made General, and even more so in seasons 9 and 10 with the new guys. In other words, they might as well have done it. *shrugs*

                              If I had one (very minor) gripe, it's that with things as they were in seasons 9 and 10, I think they could have been less ambigious about it. It would not have needed much; a phonecall, an enquiry from Daniel to Sam about how Jack was, whatever. Say it, acknowledge it and get on with it; we don't need to see it if you really don't want to actually show tongue action. I have two theories why they kept the ambiguity:
                              The first is that actually confirming it, even verbally, would upset the anti shippers too much. Although I'd counter that the anti-shipper argument is usually something like they don't want romance in sci fi / don't want the Sam/Jack show. A breif mention would have been neither so, if that's thre reason - and anti shippers got upset over that - I'd've be inclined to tell them to get over themsleves and stop being picky.
                              The second reason I can think is that the deliberately wanted to keep it that way because they knew, somewhere down the line, there would be a movie franchise and they wanted to keep confirmation - proper on screen BHK type confirmation - for that.
                              I'd like to credit them with the forethought to do the latter but, honestly, I just think the lost the way a bit, thinking out of sight out of mind when, clearly, that wasn't the case. I think they certainly know that now, and have made attempts in more recent years to address that.

                              All of which leads me to conclude that movie #3 will bring that moment we've all been waiting for.


                              Gosh, that was a ramble! And I'll lighten the tone with...


                              Quoted from UhSir but leaving IMG tags in delibeerately to add:


                              If anybody laughs this dress comes off,
                              right here, right now!



                              Don't mind me. Go right ahead. I'll watch your six.
                              I think Teal'c and I will... step outside. Yeah... umm...
                              Indeed.
                              Last edited by Cagranosalis; 04 January 2010, 04:56 AM.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Canon.. Canon...

                                What does Jennifer think of canon?

                                Anyone remember?



                                I think canon is a silly term, especially for an art form like TV, in which so many different artist's and their individual interpretations and beliefs go into the making of the cohesive (hopefully) whole. Heck, scholars can't even agree all the time on what *really* happened and the meanings and motivations of single artist works like the plays of Shakespeare, so the entire concept of 'canon' itself is questionable. IMHO, one person's interpretation of events is exactly as 'canon' for them as anyone else's, though there are enough literature courses under my belt for me to believe some interpretations are more accurate simply because there is more evidence in the art form itself, and better arguments based on that evidence, to support them. In other words, interpretations of art like TV shows still require evidence and proof and arguments from within the art itself to justify them. You can write an entire series of stories based around the fact that Daniel can fly, and that's fine within your personal 'canon', and you might find a hundred people who are willing to believe it with you, but based on Stargate itself, it's still less valid IMHO than an interpretation which says Daniel *can't* fly. Yet, at the same time, it's still a valid interpretation and if you want to believe Daniel can fly, who am I to stop you?

                                So are secondary media types in the same universe as primary media types still 'canon' within that universe? Or, in other words, are the Star Trek books canon? Or the Batman movies? Or the Warcraft books, for that matter?

                                They are if the given interpretor of that universe chooses to embrace them as part of his or her personal universe, and establishes that as a parameter in their argument supporting their interpretation.

                                It is, after all, art, and art meant primarily to entertain at that. And if even science is effected by the individual observer's initial paradigm (hence the need for reproducibility and controls), then how on earth can we expect a real true universally acceptable 'truth' within art? And if even the concept of Biblical Canon - involving issues which actually *matter* - refers to those books and sources believed to be true to each specific religious community?

                                Canon is what you make it, and in entertainment art, should be whatever interpretation makes you happy.

                                Or, in other words, if you wanna believe Daniel can fly, more power to you. Just don't expect me to believe it, too, unless you have a REALLY good argument

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X