Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
    Spoiler:
    I think we're going to get those door knob covers that you have to squeeze in order to turn it


    OT
    Spoiler:
    Yeah and I remember mentioning to my friend that Curt might need some serious help when he got back from Iraq... when I spoke with her about the wedding a few weeks ago she had thought it wasn't a good idea... now I'm wondering if he wasn't thinking like this all along and wanted to make sure his baby was taken care of.


    To be on topic: I'm reading a story that I kinda want to stop reading, not because it's not well written but because it's another Pete beating Sam story and I just don't ever seem to buy it. I have a hard time seeing Sam in the later seasons putting up with that crap. I was trying to decide if Captain Sam would. I mean, there's not really a "type" of woman that endures abuse - it sort of sneaks up on you I think. I'm procrastinating my Professional Boundaries story... looking for another plot penguin (hey you have stenos, others have bunnies, I do the penguin thing)
    Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
    It's amazing how many stories have Sam being the victim of domestic violence at Pete's hands.

    And while I do admire some authors who are clearly taking it seriously and trying to highlight the issue through Sam as a character, I really can't say I find it completely believable in any fic I've read partly, because any fic with Pete physically violent seems a distortion of his character and partly, because despite her tolerating hissy fits the morning after aside, I don't think she'd tolerate actual violence.

    I can see her offguard in a personal situation getting hit once by surprise, and that would be the end of the relationship - and I don't doubt if whoever it was tried again, she would protect herself.

    However, I do accept the point that sometimes it's the people you least expect to be suffering physical violence in a domestic situation who are; that getting hit by someone you love and who purports to love you is very different from a battlefield engaging hand to hand with an enemy.

    I just think it's a very difficult scenario to write a fic around with any believability. And I have come across one or two where Jack is the violent abuser which just leaves me gobsmacked really...
    Definitely there is no particular 'type' of woman (or man for that matter) that endures abuse, either physical or mental. A person doesn't have to be 'weak' in order to find themselves in that situation and feel utterly helpless and unable to get out. Ask any woman what she would do if her husband/partner was violent towards her and she will no doubt say that he'd only have to do it once and that would be the end of the relationship. But in fact that almost never happens. You'd have to have actually experienced it to know or even try to understand how you would react, and often it's the women that their friends consider to be 'strong' that have the most difficulty in dealing with it.

    Pete doesn't seem the type? Who does?

    Sam is a strong person, a trained soldier, so she wouldn't 'put up with it'? Don't kid yourselves! It just doesn't work that way

    Comment


      Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
      I know but if I don't do AU I can't get S/J together - it's okay. I'll warn you so you can avoid it LOL Bren doesn't do You don't do AU... I don't do fluff (unless Amanda makes me or you trick me...)
      *throws hands up* Why do I always get blamed for the fluff? And I happen to remember the ending to your WoO/BD cross over...sounded pretty fluffy to me...*lifts eyebrow*

      *squishy huggles Jumble* Just 'cause.


      My Fanfiction My Sam/Jack vids (yahoo) My LJ
      Thanks everyone for my b-day icons and sigs!
      Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

      Comment


        Originally posted by jumble View Post
        Pete doesn't seem the type? Who does?
        I would argue Pete doesn't seem the type because he seems, at least after Chimera, to be indulging in a fair bit of hero worship. He seems more puppy-dogish than aggressive or needing to prove dominance. The fact he was willing to go as far with the relationship as he did knowing her heart wasn't fully in it, I think, speaks to that.

        But then again, I don't know a whole lot about the issues involved with this personally, which is just one of the reasons I'd never be comfortable writing it. I do tend to think, too, Sam/Jack (and Stargate) have enough inherent issues that it's not generally necessary to add outside issues which don't flow directly from canonical situations.

        Though there's that bias again Which means I'm in all probability completely wrong and this should be totally ignored.

        Comment


          Originally posted by jumble View Post
          Definitely there is no particular 'type' of woman (or man for that matter) that endures abuse, either physical or mental. A person doesn't have to be 'weak' in order to find themselves in that situation and feel utterly helpless and unable to get out. Ask any woman what she would do if her husband/partner was violent towards her and she will no doubt say that he'd only have to do it once and that would be the end of the relationship. But in fact that almost never happens. You'd have to have actually experienced it to know or even try to understand how you would react, and often it's the women that their friends consider to be 'strong' that have the most difficulty in dealing with it.

          Pete doesn't seem the type? Who does?

          Sam is a strong person, a trained soldier, so she wouldn't 'put up with it'? Don't kid yourselves! It just doesn't work that way
          Yep. That's kind of why I had that paragraph you bolded included. No matter how much the characterisation might suggest Sam wouldn't put up with domestic violence, the truth is in reality nobody really knows what goes on in someone else's relationship and how someone is going to react behind closed doors.

          But, I still stand by my view that I've yet to see it believably conveyed in a fic because IMO most of the time the author has had to distort Sam's characterisation, sometimes quite subtly, to make the fic drama work.
          sigpic
          Women of the Gate LJ Community.
          My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

          Comment


            Originally posted by starlover View Post



















            Love and hot fudge,
            Bren Ren
            ~
            My stories!
            ~

            sigpic

            Comment


              Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
              I would argue Pete doesn't seem the type because he seems, at least after Chimera, to be indulging in a fair bit of hero worship. He seems more puppy-dogish than aggressive or needing to prove dominance. The fact he was willing to go as far with the relationship as he did knowing her heart wasn't fully in it, I think, speaks to that.
              In my experience, that's exactly the type of guy that invokes violence when the object of his worship does something that appears out of step with his image of them, or doesn't quite fit with his expectations.

              But then again, I don't know a whole lot about the issues involved with this personally, which is just one of the reasons I'd never be comfortable writing it. I do tend to think, too, Sam/Jack (and Stargate) have enough inherent issues that it's not generally necessary to add outside issues which don't flow directly from canonical situations.

              Though there's that bias again Which means I'm in all probability completely wrong and this should be totally ignored.
              Sorry to be cranky, but I do have experience of the issues involved, and I agree with you that it shouldn't be a topic for fanfics.

              Comment


                Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                I would argue Pete doesn't seem the type because he seems, at least after Chimera, to be indulging in a fair bit of hero worship. He seems more puppy-dogish than aggressive or needing to prove dominance. The fact he was willing to go as far with the relationship as he did knowing her heart wasn't fully in it, I think, speaks to that.

                But then again, I don't know a whole lot about the issues involved with this personally, which is just one of the reasons I'd never be comfortable writing it. I do tend to think, too, Sam/Jack (and Stargate) have enough inherent issues that it's not generally necessary to add outside issues which don't flow directly from canonical situations.

                Though there's that bias again Which means I'm in all probability completely wrong and this should be totally ignored.
                I want to add that while he was suspicious, he was never controlling. I think while he threw his little temper tantrum in "Chimera", he would have walked away rather than demand she give him more - and to be fair they do have him acknowledge his silliness in "Affinity". And we even see with Fifth that when Fake Pete gets forceful and angry Sam knows it's Fifth because of his violent anger. She says that Pete would never behave that way. He just doesn't exhibit any of the controlling tendencies.

                Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                Yep. That's kind of why I had that paragraph you bolded included. No matter how much the characterisation might suggest Sam wouldn't put up with domestic violence, the truth is in reality nobody really knows what goes on in someone else's relationship and how someone is going to react behind closed doors.

                But, I still stand by my view that I've yet to see it believably conveyed in a fic because IMO most of the time the author has had to distort Sam's characterisation, sometimes quite subtly, to make the fic drama work.
                And I agree with this - while it's true that I have hard time imagining later Sam putting up with it - I suppose it's possible - but even if that were true, I don't think Jack and the rest of the team would put up with it. With the amount of time they all spend together I don't think THEY would put up with it (and it would be reeeeeaally hard to hide with all her physicals). That's sort of why I was thinking about going for an emotional/verbal abuse. Harder to see.

                Spoiler:
                I dated a guy that was emotionally/verbally abusive - he broke up with me when I started to stand up to him (thankfully I only wasted a few months with him so no lasting damage LOL). He then dated a friend of mine who was with him for two years... she was a strong personality but she withdrew from all of us and it definitely affected her. I had tried to warn her, but ...

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                  Yep. That's kind of why I had that paragraph you bolded included. No matter how much the characterisation might suggest Sam wouldn't put up with domestic violence, the truth is in reality nobody really knows what goes on in someone else's relationship and how someone is going to react behind closed doors.
                  Exactly, that's why I bolded it

                  But, I still stand by my view that I've yet to see it believably conveyed in a fic because IMO most of the time the author has had to distort Sam's characterisation, sometimes quite subtly, to make the fic drama work.
                  Which in fact should not be necessary if any kind of accuracy is to be achieved, because she can be exactly who she is and still have difficulty in dealing with such a situation. Especially if it's true that Jonas treated her that way and then it happened again with another partner, because that's even harder to get your head around and deal with.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                    Spoiler:
                    I think we're going to get those door knob covers that you have to squeeze in order to turn it
                    FYI my 3 year old neice can get those open. Rosa can open doors right now (almost 2) but not those with the turny knob covers only because she's to short to reach, squee, twist and pull.

                    As for Pete I don't see him being abusive. Jonas yes, Pete no.
                    sigpic
                    GO NEWMAN! 31!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                      I would argue Pete doesn't seem the type because he seems, at least after Chimera, to be indulging in a fair bit of hero worship. He seems more puppy-dogish than aggressive or needing to prove dominance. The fact he was willing to go as far with the relationship as he did knowing her heart wasn't fully in it, I think, speaks to that.

                      But then again, I don't know a whole lot about the issues involved with this personally, which is just one of the reasons I'd never be comfortable writing it. I do tend to think, too, Sam/Jack (and Stargate) have enough inherent issues that it's not generally necessary to add outside issues which don't flow directly from canonical situations.

                      Though there's that bias again Which means I'm in all probability completely wrong and this should be totally ignored.
                      I've always thought Pete had the potential to become a controller type abuser.

                      The investigating her behind her back; wanting to know everything about her life; the pushing of their relationship at every point; the grand romantic gestures like buying her a house...

                      I could see over a period of months/years, his controlling Sam first with small stuff, and later with big stuff. That type of abuse is usually quite insidious and hard to spot, and the victim usually ends up very isolated because the abuser has ended up controlling choice of friends, time spent with family and friends, etc.

                      OOC...I tend to be very lenient in reading fics - we all have our own idea of the characters but my favourite authors probably land in 95%+ characterisation land of how I see Sam and Jack myself. Then there's probably a swathe between 50-95% which I'll read without rolling my eyes but with the mental note that its AU if we're in season three and they're screwing the regs...and then there's below 50% where they're completely out for me and I can't read it.
                      sigpic
                      Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                      My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jumble View Post
                        Exactly, that's why I bolded it

                        Which in fact should not be necessary if any kind of accuracy is to be achieved, because she can be exactly who she is and still have difficulty in dealing with such a situation. Especially if it's true that Jonas treated her that way and then it happened again with another partner, because that's even harder to get your head around and deal with.
                        Exactly. If an author is going to tackle it, they should keep Sam in-character in that scenario and do it but most do make her not-Sam.

                        I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be attempted as a topic for fanfic as I do think these topics are good to explore and highlight, but as someone with knowledge of both, I do take issue with it or rape being treated lightly in fanfic or used as a plot device for the singular purpose of the ship.

                        EDIT: And Twi, that latter bit wasn't meant as a go at you at all - from the fact that you're here debating how to approach the plot, it kind of indicates that you are taking it seriously.
                        sigpic
                        Women of the Gate LJ Community.
                        My Stargate Fanfiction. My LiveJournal.

                        Comment


                          Know what's awesome?

                          This is awesome:
                          Spoiler:
                          What a sweet moment.

                          And now I've saved it for posterity...

                          EDIT: See, we're the thread at the End of the Universe... We finally broke Gateworld to our will

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Rachel500 View Post
                            Exactly. If an author is going to tackle it, they should keep Sam in-character in that scenario and do it but most do make her not-Sam.

                            I don't necessarily think it shouldn't be attempted as a topic for fanfic as I do think these topics are good to explore and highlight, but as someone with knowledge of both, I do take issue with it or rape being treated lightly in fanfic or used as a plot device for the singular purpose of the ship.

                            EDIT: And Twi, that latter bit wasn't meant as a go at you at all - from the fact that you're here debating how to approach the plot, it kind of indicates that you are taking it seriously.
                            I hear you on that Rachel (and thanks for the edit note) - I don't think it should be taken lightly and I definitely don't want to. I write fanfic because I love the characters and I try to write where the *story* should go which means while I want to write an S/J fic, I wouldn't force it. It's just like when I write a story with depression - one of the most annoying things I read is when people have Sam and Jack go hang out together for a few days, have sex, and then she comes back all better (and hey MacKenzie is a quack!) - no, no, no, Jack would be a great support, but a night in bed (or several nights in bed) with him is not going to cure it... :: mutters ::

                            Originally posted by JenniferJF View Post
                            Know what's awesome?

                            This is awesome:
                            What a sweet moment.

                            And now I've saved it for posterity...

                            EDIT: See, we're the thread at the End of the Universe... We finally broke Gateworld to our will
                            I feel a Hathor moment coming on here... "You will serve us nicely our beloved."

                            Comment


                              As hard as I tried, I couldn’t resist chiming in on the subject of *that character* and his potential for abusive behavior. So….

                              The following is a snippet of dialogue that I transcribed from the TV series “NUMB3RS”; the moment I first heard it, this character naturally immediately came to mind. I wasn’t gonna post anything about it cause I just generally hate discussing this subject, as I’m sure y’all know quite well, but here I am… So the line:

                              “Stalkers fall into six basic types: Rejected, Resentful, Predatory, Intimacy Seeker, Incompetent Suitor…”
                              (She’s interrupted before she gets to the sixth one and it’s never subsequently mentioned…)

                              I’d say that particularly loathsome character that TPTB in their infinite wisdom [/snark] chose to utilize to ‘break Sam’s black widow curse’ would fit under that last umbrella, “Incompetent Suitor”. Even as much as I despise him, I never really saw him as the violent-abusive type, though I did have him flip out rather violently in the one and only fic I actually used his character in when Sam broke things off with him, but that was the first and last time, within the context of my story, that I envisioned him responding with physical aggression.

                              I saw him more as the super-insecure type. Which is not at all the type of guy to keep Sam Carter’s interest, in my sometimes humble Shippy opinion. And I never saw anything (in the one time I’ve managed to force myself to view each and any of his scenes) to contradict that impression. Quite the opposite, in fact. Even the very end of his Stargate tenure backed up that hypothesis, when he acknowledged that he knew her heart wasn’t in it. A man with true self-confidence would not propose marriage to a woman because he’s afraid of losing her. His behavior simply reeked of desperation all the way through. Again, just my sometimes humble opinion, which is admittedly severely biased against this particular character.

                              You know, this is probably the calmest discussion of that character that I’ve ever managed! Yay me!
                              Love and hot fudge,
                              Bren Ren
                              ~
                              My stories!
                              ~

                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Twilight506 View Post
                                Tragic OT:

                                Spoiler:
                                Yesterday I wrote a little fic on depression b/c I wanted to open up an avenue for discussion... well I got an email from a very close and dear friend of mine - her younger brother killed himself yesterday. He was a marine, in law school, and had a wife with a baby on the way. I went to high school with him. As someone who lives with severe depression herself and who is watching this unfold with shock, please please please if you feel this way talk to someone. Hell, send me an e-mail because I'll gladly talk about what I deal with just so you don't feel alone. Just don't do anything...reckless. I love you guys.
                                Twi's OT:
                                Spoiler:
                                Oh my friend, I'm so sorry. I, too, still get some PTSD flashbacks from active duty (Desert Storm) and know that nobody here who has never served will ever fully empathize. Understand, yes, empathize? Not really.

                                Take care of *you* too, this is a hard time for you as well. I'm thinking of you and your friend, and am so terribly sorry for your loss.

                                A young man in my unit killed himself while we were over, ironicially he was someone I'd known since childhood who was assigned with my team. As his CO I felt so...powerless...and angry with myself for not helping or recognizing that he needed help. Suicide is hardes on those of us left behind, for the truly troubled person is finally at peace. *You* email *us* if you need to talk too, yes?


                                What haven't I posted in a while...oh! New thread, doesn't matter!

                                Mala's excellent work:


                                The gif is good, but for some reason this cap is hotter:
                                Pol My Blog | My Fanfic | My FaceBook__ Sam: "Jack...please."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X