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Laxian of Earth
December 7th, 2009, 04:14 AM
i seem to have a problem wrapping my mind around the fact that a race such as the ancients designed a system and left it on like that, when no one was on board...

even more, there had to have been someone (actually a lot of people in order to overwhelm the system) on board for a long time...otherwise the system should have been offline (thus fresh and new when the SGU-People dialed in) and the ship (minus gate room - in order not to kill incoming travelers) should have been pressurized with inert gas (better preservation, no degradation, decay, bacteria forming etc) to keep the ship in better shape...

now tell me why that didn't happen or why exactly the opposite happened!

greetings LAX

knowles2
December 7th, 2009, 04:30 AM
Joe Blog has hinted that there may have indeed been other visitors to the ship through the eons of time it has travel the stars.

apostrophe
May 19th, 2010, 06:55 PM
i seem to have a problem wrapping my mind around the fact that a race such as the ancients designed a system and left it on like that, when no one was on board...

even more, there had to have been someone (actually a lot of people in order to overwhelm the system) on board for a long time...otherwise the system should have been offline (thus fresh and new when the SGU-People dialed in) and the ship (minus gate room - in order not to kill incoming travelers) should have been pressurized with inert gas (better preservation, no degradation, decay, bacteria forming etc) to keep the ship in better shape...

now tell me why that didn't happen or why exactly the opposite happened!

greetings LAX

I've noticed a deterioration in both the speculative science and basic tech credibility that seemed to set in around the time of the last series coming to an end. There are some more serious problems with the air plot thing. In some cases it can help one's enjoyment to try to come up with excuses to explain away some of the discrepancies.

In this case, we know that the ship has suffered damage over the eons which could even include various kinds of battle damage. Presumably, that could have resulted in some fires which produced a lot of smoke which overwhelmed the scrubbers.

How the blankets and pillows can be in such good condition after hundreds of thousands of years is apparently a tribute to the advanced state of the Ancients textile technology.

Since the one to watch is the extended version and the first two parts are glommed together anyway I'm not sure whether it's part one or part two wherein the Senator sacrifices himself to close the door of the shuttle. Things are a little too plot device convenient here.

The main thing is, the leaking window isn't all that big. They took inventory and have a ton of tape. They have a cutter but all they really needed to do was take one of the big reinforced equipment suitcases, place it over the window, tape up the edges and the 99.9 % of the the leak would be stopped. Oh well. Not as dramatic.

I could also imagine an alternative:

Chloe to Milo : "Can't you do something?"

Milo gets an idea. Runs down the corridor with suitcase and tape. Figures out how to get the door back open. See that? Secondary manual release. Rushes in, tapes up the window. Whew. Close call eh? "Senator? Eh, Senator, you don't look so good....Uh Oh"

Meanwhile Dr. Smith, I mean Rush is making his speech about "nobody dies in vain...".

If you thought Chloe was upset then....

:)

escyos
May 20th, 2010, 04:23 PM
I've noticed a deterioration in both the speculative science and basic tech credibility that seemed to set in around the time of the last series coming to an end. There are some more serious problems with the air plot thing. In some cases it can help one's enjoyment to try to come up with excuses to explain away some of the discrepancies.

In this case, we know that the ship has suffered damage over the eons which could even include various kinds of battle damage. Presumably, that could have resulted in some fires which produced a lot of smoke which overwhelmed the scrubbers.

How the blankets and pillows can be in such good condition after hundreds of thousands of years is apparently a tribute to the advanced state of the Ancients textile technology.

Since the one to watch is the extended version and the first two parts are glommed together anyway I'm not sure whether it's part one or part two wherein the Senator sacrifices himself to close the door of the shuttle. Things are a little too plot device convenient here.

The main thing is, the leaking window isn't all that big. They took inventory and have a ton of tape. They have a cutter but all they really needed to do was take one of the big reinforced equipment suitcases, place it over the window, tape up the edges and the 99.9 % of the the leak would be stopped. Oh well. Not as dramatic.

I could also imagine an alternative:

Chloe to Milo : "Can't you do something?"

Milo gets an idea. Runs down the corridor with suitcase and tape. Figures out how to get the door back open. See that? Secondary manual release. Rushes in, tapes up the window. Whew. Close call eh? "Senator? Eh, Senator, you don't look so good....Uh Oh"

Meanwhile Dr. Smith, I mean Rush is making his speech about "nobody dies in vain...".

If you thought Chloe was upset then....

:)

you are aware that space is a vacuum and the air would find a way past the tape....and chances are the tape/suitcase would burn/freeze and break apart.

apostrophe
May 20th, 2010, 09:49 PM
you are aware that space is a vacuum and the air would find a way past the tape....and chances are the tape/suitcase would burn/freeze and break apart.

Yes, of course I am aware. But maybe you're right. Let's see.

One atmosphere at sea level is about 14.5 psi

So that would be the pressure differential since vacuum is 0 psi. Actually probably a little less since they remarked that the air was getting thin. So assume we want to maintain at least 14 psi.

Let's say the window is 24" square. That would be an area of 576 square inches.

576 square inches X 14 psi = 8064 lbs total force exerted overall on the suitcase.

It seems like a simple suitcase would indeed be crushed.

OTOH the force would be evenly distributed. The weakest point would be the middle. The edges would be braced by the sides so they could essentially take more weight ( weight = force here).
If I were a mechanical engineer I could probably find a formula to predict a gradient from the edge to the middle. Basically you wouldn't have the full 8000 lbs at the middle. A lot less. I think.

Also, the military grade equipment cases, what would they be made of? 1" plywood? Fiberglass?
Stronger than the average suitcase.

Didn't there used to be a commercial with an elephant sitting on a suitcase to show how strong it was? Samsonite? Well, OK, even an elephant-proof suitcase would probably be pretty dicey.

But I still think that it would be feasible to rig something up to seal up the window.

Metal is lot stronger.

For example, the propane tank for your barbecue grill has about 155 psi in it to start. If the tank has double the surface area, 1152 sq in X 155 psi = 178,560 lbs

The relatively thin metal of the propane tank is holding bank 178,560 lbs of equivalent weight. Of course there is tank geometry involved and the force is evenly distributed.

So all we need is something metal and to improve the geometry e.g cross bracing.

Lots of ancient furniture about. Some of those table tops look pretty strong. Ancient alloys are super strong and last for millions of years. Bulkheads. Covers. Hatches. Grates. Could layer more than one.

The force field is malfunctioning but it is still holding a lot of the air back. The remaining equivalent leak past the force field looks to be only a few inches in diameter. If the window were wide open they would have been all sucked out immediately. So if it's holding most of it, it would function to brace the middle. That would get us down to only a few hundred pounds worth of structural strength needed. Even the paltry suitcase could still work in such a case.

It wouldn't burn (cold+lack of air) .

But you mention freezing. That actually suggests another approach. A block of ice can be really strong. They have water. They could soak pillows (the fibers would also add strength.) Stick it up there. Keep throwing water on it until it froze solid. There was a ST (I think) episode where they used mashed potatoes to seal (an albeit smaller) leak. The freezing of space gave it strength to seal the hole.

That, assuming it is like most of the force fields we've seen on SG and can stop large solid objects. Remember in "Upgrades"? O'Neill futilely trying to break through the force field to try to free Carter. If it could hold back a large object (should be easier for it than tiny air molecules) we would have it made.

It wouldn't have to seal perfectly. From the looks of the wind, it would be like a several square inch hole. Get that down to a pinhole and you're good. They only need to buy time. If it would take the remaining leak a year or even a month to empty out the ship instead of the hours they initially estimated, that would give the time needed to analyze and fix the door or maybe even fix the shuttle. Or fix the other stuff first, of course . That the Senator was only buying time for as well.

OK it might be harder than easy. But would it be impossible? I don't think so.

escyos
May 20th, 2010, 10:00 PM
closing the door was a much easier approach than repairing the shuttle window with a suitcase and some tape regardless of how strong the case is. you have to remember that they were running out of time and air and sealing the door was the right choice

apostrophe
May 20th, 2010, 11:32 PM
closing the door was a much easier approach than repairing the shuttle window with a suitcase and some tape regardless of how strong the case is. you have to remember that they were running out of time and air and sealing the door was the right choice

It was the obvious choice. Easiest and fastest.

But recall there was a lot of opposition to someone sacrificing themselves. What if nobody volunteered? Would they all just sit and die without someone thinking, hey, maybe we can make some kind of temporary patch. Seems kind of dumb.

I mean, if I was there I'd at least try something else in the meantime. Seemed a little single-minded trying to fix only the door controls without trying some other kind of fix as well.

If Chloe and Scott had gotten there just a minute sooner, they presumably would have prevented the Senator from carrying out his decision. Pretty convenient timing there, the door closing just as Chloe runs up against it. Very dramatic. Or it would have been if, well, didn't seem pretty obvious what was probably going to happen the minute she started running down the corridor?

But, what if they'd stopped him, then what? Maybe then try to patch the window?

Oh. I know. Nobody was sharp enough to think of everything possible because of the mounting CO2 levels and thin air.

Actually he was dying anyway wasn't he? He had to do it right away if he was going to do it at all, before he died from his condition.

So, OK. I'll concede. Right decision all around.

Actually I didn't much like the Senator character anyway. At least arch-villain Senator Kinsey in SG1 spouted off about "doing the people's business of this great nation..." and "the people's money "...

This guy says " ... I want to see how my one and half billion dollars are being spent.." Like it's his money, not an appropriation ultimately being paid by the people - tax revenues. Sheesh. What a megalomaniac. Even Kinsey wasn't that arrogant.

At least he was able to redeem himself in the end.

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