Popcorn Action - What Is It?

[ciannwn]

First of all, there can be no right or wrong answers here because people's opinions will be purely subjective. I'm going to start with two examples of what I regard as popcorn action although I don't think it made the entire episodes bad or anything like that.

1 Sateda

There was nothing wrong with the action visually. I also loved the way that different locations in the ruins brought back memories for Ronon so we learned more about his past in flashbacks. This, to me, showed that action and a bit of drama can go hand in hand.

The popcorn stuff as far as I'm concerned -

a) The Wraith hunters were useless types who couldn't have hit barn doors at point blank range.

b) The cutie with the goggles was a complete wimp because Ronon defeated him in hand to hand combat. Seeing as these Wraith had culled some of the villagers who'd captured Ronon there was no reason for goggle Wraith to be weakened with hunger or did their leader take all the food for himself?

c) The Wraith leader was my kind of Wraith because he was super strong and formidable - I cheered when Ronon took that running leap at him and he sent Ronon flying with a sweep of his arm. I still found shades of popcorn because of what this Wraith was wearing, though - we knew he was going to be a mean fighting machine because his outfit looked like he'd gone shopping at the Mad Max boutique.

2: Midway

I really liked the first part of this episode when Ronon resented Teal'c trying to coach him for the interview. I was also enjoying the Ronon/Teal'c fight and thought Sam was a rotten spoilsport for breaking it up.

The popcorn stuff as far as I was concerned -

The second half was my idea of over the top action although there was nothing wrong with it visually. The sheer coincidence of Teal'c happening to be there when the Wraith tried their invasion made me think it had been put in just so Ronon and Teal'c could fight side by side and end up male bonding or whatever.

I got the impression that this episode had been inspired by a GW topic like "Who would win in a fight? Ronon or Teal'c?". TPTB then chickened out of having a winner and presented them as being equally good at slaughtering Wraith redshirts.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

First of all, there can be no right or wrong answers here because people's opinions will be purely subjective. I'm going to start with two examples of what I regard as popcorn action although I don't think it made the entire episodes bad or anything like that.

1 Sateda

There was nothing wrong with the action visually. I also loved the way that different locations in the ruins brought back memories for Ronon so we learned more about his past in flashbacks. This, to me, showed that action and a bit of drama can go hand in hand.

The popcorn stuff as far as I'm concerned -

a) The Wraith hunters were useless types who couldn't have hit barn doors at point blank range.

b) The cutie with the goggles was a complete wimp because Ronon defeated him in hand to hand combat. Seeing as these Wraith had culled some of the villagers who'd captured Ronon there was no reason for goggle Wraith to be weakened with hunger or did their leader take all the food for himself?

c) The Wraith leader was my kind of Wraith because he was super strong and formidable - I cheered when Ronon took that running leap at him and he sent Ronon flying with a sweep of his arm. I still found shades of popcorn because of what this Wraith was wearing, though - we knew he was going to be a mean fighting machine because his outfit looked like he'd gone shopping at the Mad Max boutique.

2: Midway

I really liked the first part of this episode when Ronon resented Teal'c trying to coach him for the interview. I was also enjoying the Ronon/Teal'c fight and thought Sam was a rotten spoilsport for breaking it up.

The popcorn stuff as far as I was concerned -

The second half was my idea of over the top action although there was nothing wrong with it visually. The sheer coincidence of Teal'c happening to be there when the Wraith tried their invasion made me think it had been put in just so Ronon and Teal'c could fight side by side and end up male bonding or whatever.

I got the impression that this episode had been inspired by a GW topic like "Who would win in a fight? Ronon or Teal's?". TPTB then chickened out of having a winner and presented them as being equally good at slaughtering Wraith redshirts.

Essentially what I’d see as popcorn action is much of what you described. Fun style action like is Sateda, especially the heroes are blazing away mowing down enemies. However you can I believe have non popcorn action as well. For every Michael Bay film like Bad Boys or Transformers there’s a Michael Mann film like Heat or Public Enemies. Mann’s films are filled with action, but it’s a different type, harder, nastier, more realistic. Stargate has had this kind of action as well like in Heroes or more recently in Time.

[ciannwn]

However you can I believe have non popcorn action as well.

I agree with you here. I thoroughly enjoyed The Storm/The Eye where Sheppard and Kolya were trying to outwit each other. I think 'Time' was very good too where the action was concerned because the characters weren't presented as super heroes who could solve the problem with guns.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I agree with you here. I thoroughly enjoyed The Storm/The Eye where Sheppard and Kolya were trying to outwit each other. I think 'Time' was very good too where the action was concerned because the characters weren't presented as super heroes who could solve the problem with guns.

Well the Storm and the Eye was essentially Die Hard on Atlantis. Hell Robert Davi was in the original Die Hard. While the sequels are hardly classics I think Die Hard is a seminal 80’s film, the hero who struggles to win was a serious change to many action films. I’d encourage this less popcorn action style. Probably one of the greatest action scenes of all time is the firefight outside the bank in Heat as it catches the chaos of combat with rounds going down. Even if the battle is going well it will be utterly chaotic. I think that’s often what separates types of action, action that looks very choreographed and easy for the characters like in Midway is popcorn action, action where it is chaotic and confused like in Heroes, Time, Phantoms and Stronghold is very unpopcorny. Also the action in each of these episodes is there to further the story, they all have great action, but the point of the episode unlike say Midway isn’t an excuse just to shoot a bunch of Wraith.

[Mongoletsi]

Well the Storm and the Eye was essentially Die Hard on Atlantis. Hell Robert Davi was in the original Die Hard.

I'd forgotten about that.

While the sequels are hardly classics I think Die Hard is a seminal 80’s film

You don't reckon Die Hard II is good? Maybe not as good as Die Hard but still... Die Hard III was so-so imo, had some cool bits, but definitely "popcorn". As for "Die Hard" IV. Well, it's in quotes. To me it wasn't even a Die Hard film. It was a kinda (to overuse the term) "Popcorn 24" for the big screen, done lazily, featuring the guy who was in Die Hard. As for the F-35 sequence... dear lord. Terrible stuff.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I'd forgotten about that.


You don't reckon Die Hard II is good? Maybe not as good as Die Hard but still... Die Hard III was so-so imo, had some cool bits, but definitely "popcorn". As for "Die Hard" IV. Well, it's in quotes. To me it wasn't even a Die Hard film. It was a kinda (to overuse the term) "Popcorn 24" for the big screen, done lazily, featuring the guy who was in Die Hard. As for the F-35 sequence... dear lord. Terrible stuff.

Essentially Die hard 1 is classic cinema, the sequels are pop corn cinema however that vary in quality, 3 is pretty good, 4 was terrible.

[thekillman]

BAMSR. one of the few eps which got me shouting "THIS IS NOT RIGHT" at the computer. looked like those aurora's had glass shields and hulls of explodium

[ciannwn]

Well the Storm and the Eye was essentially Die Hard on Atlantis. Hell Robert Davi was in the original Die Hard.

I'm perfectly happy for a plot to be borrowed from elsewhere if it makes a good story. 'Common Ground' had a lot of similarities to 'Hell In The Pacific' and 'Enemy Mine' because two individuals had to work together in order to survive even though their races were at war. Borrowing a shoot out scene from a Western in 'Irresponsible' was a disaster, though, in my opinion.

[s09119]

BAMSR. one of the few eps which got me shouting "THIS IS NOT RIGHT" at the computer. looked like those aurora's had glass shields and hulls of explodium

Oh God, that was just awful... even worse than the pathetic way the Asurans fought, though, were the computer models of the ships... I've seen better in 90s video games.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

Oh God, that was just awful... even worse than the pathetic way the Asurans fought, though, were the computer models of the ships... I've seen better in 90s video games.

I kinda liked it. But space battles are a slightly different kettle of fish. Still I’d say that the battle in Camelot was one of the best as it managed to capture the chaos of battle.

[Petra]

Well the Storm and the Eye was essentially Die Hard on Atlantis. Hell Robert Davi was in the original Die Hard. While the sequels are hardly classics I think Die Hard is a seminal 80’s film, the hero who struggles to win was a serious change to many action films. I’d encourage this less popcorn action style. Probably one of the greatest action scenes of all time is the firefight outside the bank in Heat as it catches the chaos of combat with rounds going down. Even if the battle is going well it will be utterly chaotic. I think that’s often what separates types of action, action that looks very choreographed and easy for the characters like in Midway is popcorn action, action where it is chaotic and confused like in Heroes, Time, Phantoms and Stronghold is very unpopcorny. Also the action in each of these episodes is there to further the story, they all have great action, but the point of the episode unlike say Midway isn’t an excuse just to shoot a bunch of Wraith.

I was going to agree with you till I got to Stronghold. Seriously? Stronghold IMO features one of the most - if not the most - unrealistic fights ever done on Stargate. Cam runs like mad, nobody can hit him although of course he hits every target, in hand to hand fight his Jaffa oponent first mops the floor with Cam and when Mitchell is down suddenly freezes and waits patiently for our hero to get his bearings, find a zat and shoot him. Then the same happens at the rings. It was so artificial that it crossed the line and became ridiculous. It's a scene Michael Bay would be proud of. As enjoyable as it may be to some, it has nothing to do with serious combat.

Anyway, I agree there is popcorn action and serious, more realistic action. Stargate tended to be popcorny from the very beginning (The Movie is a summer popcorn flick after all) but as years went by it was becoming more and more so. And what exactly is "popcorn action"? I'd say that it's a fight where there's no doubt out hero(s) will win. When he(or she) turns out to be an excellent shooter hitting every target from every position while his/her opponents miss all the time. Or alternatively their hits only graze the hero slowing him down a bit but nothing more. The fight itself is choreographed, very clean (huge explosions, lots of shooting but no gore and very little blood) and looks easy. Just MO of course.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

I was going to agree with you till I got to Stronghold. Seriously? Stronghold IMO features one of the most - if not the most - unrealistic fights ever done on Stargate. Cam runs like mad, nobody can hit him although of course he hits every target, in hand to hand fight his Jaffa oponent first mops the floor with Cam and when Mitchell is down suddenly freezes and waits patiently for our hero to get his bearings, find a zat and shoot him. Then the same happens at the rings. It was so artificial that it crossed the line and became ridiculous. It's a scene Michael Bay would be proud of. As enjoyable as it may be to some, it has nothing to do with serious combat.

Anyway, I agree there is popcorn action and serious, more realistic action. Stargate tended to be popcorny from the very beginning (The Movie is a summer popcorn flick after all) but as years went by it was becoming more and more so. And what exactly is "popcorn action"? I'd say that it's a fight where there's no doubt out hero(s) will win. When he(or she) turns out to be an excellent shooter hitting every target from every position while his/her opponents miss all the time. Or alternatively their hits only graze the hero slowing him down a bit but nothing more. The fight itself is choreographed, very clean (huge explosions, lots of shooting but no gore and very little blood) and looks easy. Just MO of course.

I’d say Stronghold was fairly realistic, the point was Cam was being a hotheaded idiot and charging ahead with everyone. He flanked the gun position on the hill and he had a grenade launcher so that was the right thing to do. He should have done it with more support, taken a fire team with him. That lack of support was why he got the crap kicked out of him by a Jaffa. Apart from that it’s a pretty good sequence, if you notice the sgc troops pretty much destroy the jaffa with no losses, still the fight is chaotic which is exactly what it would be like.

[hedwig]

2: Midway

I really liked the first part of this episode when Ronon resented Teal'c trying to coach him for the interview. I was also enjoying the Ronon/Teal'c fight and thought Sam was a rotten spoilsport for breaking it up.

I don't think Sam was a "rotten spoilsport" at all. As the commander of the base, I thought she acted appropriately in breaking up that fight. Elizabeth would have done the same thing. And I'm pretty sure Woolsey would have done the same thing, too. And previous commanders would have broken it up too. I'm sure neither Hammond, Jack or Landry would have allowed anything like that had it happened at the SGC.

It was a rather childish fight between two grown men who should have known better. And it was rather beneath Teal'c to involve himself in it. It was like two little boys claiming each was bigger, stronger, tougher than the other. And all the betting and cheering going on around the fighting was just as immature and childish. There were far better ways of being entertained than that. (IMO)

There was way more than enough fighting going on with the goa'uld, wraith and whoever, without allies doing it for what was rather childish reasons.

[ciannwn]

It was a rather childish fight between two grown men who should have known better. And it was rather beneath Teal'c to involve himself in it. It was like two little boys claiming each was bigger, stronger, tougher than the other. And all the betting and cheering going on around the fighting was just as immature and childish. There were far better ways of being entertained than that. (IMO)

The fight didn't start because the two men suddenly began punching each other like something out of a Western bar room brawl scene. When Ronon loses his temper in the Mess Hall -

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4...ipts/417.shtml

(Furious, Ronon sweeps his tray off the table. Leaping to his feet, he snatches out his blaster, cocks it and aims it at Teal'c's head, snarling.)

After Sheppard's ordered him to put his gun away he says -

SHEPPARD: All right. Why don't you take Teal'c down to the gym – show him your fighting techniques? I'm sure you guys could give each other a few tips.

My guess is that Sheppard wanted Ronon to work off some of that bad temper in a way which didn't involve him using his magic gun.

I was hoping for the fight scene to be one of Teal'c's lessons. Tea'lc had already manipulated Ronon into losing his temper in the Mess Hall. What I wanted to see was Teal'c doing this again with the result that Ronon just charged in like a bull in a china shop and Teal'c defeated him by keeping his head and using strategy.

As for it being beneath Teal'c to get involved in such a thing, well he's a Jaffa and his people's culture is very different to that of the 21st century US. 'Talion' showed us Teal'c tracking down those responsible for his mother's murder and the terrorist attack and the hunt ends with a fight to the death between him and Arkad. Bra'tak, Teal'c's wise old mentor, makes comments like -

http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.co...%22_Transcript

BRA'TAC: There was a time when you would've come away from such a battle without a scratch.

BRA'TAC: I would not like to be the one who opposes you.

BRA'TAC: I have not said this to you before, and I should have. You are the son I never had. I could not be more proud.

So back to one of my original comments about 'Midway'.

I got the impression that this episode had been inspired by a GW topic like "Who would win in a fight? Ronon or Teal'c?". TPTB then chickened out of having a winner and presented them as being equally good at slaughtering Wraith redshirts.

BSG used the idea of Galactica crew members letting off steam by having organised boxing matches which weren't confined to people fighting others of their own rank. I thought this episode worked very well so would have enjoyed something more like this between Ronon and Teal'c.

PS: BSG episode I mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfinis...r_Galactica%29

The crew of Galactica have reinstated an old military tradition by setting up a boxing ring and putting rank aside — by the placing of dog tags in a metal box — crew and officers freely duke it out in one-on-one matches.

[hedwig]

The fight didn't start because the two men suddenly began punching each other like something out of a Western bar room brawl scene. When Ronon loses his temper in the Mess Hall -

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s4...ipts/417.shtml

(Furious, Ronon sweeps his tray off the table. Leaping to his feet, he snatches out his blaster, cocks it and aims it at Teal'c's head, snarling.)

After Sheppard's ordered him to put his gun away he says -

SHEPPARD: All right. Why don't you take Teal'c down to the gym – show him your fighting techniques? I'm sure you guys could give each other a few tips.

My guess is that Sheppard wanted Ronon to work off some of that bad temper in a way which didn't involve him using his magic gun.

I was hoping for the fight scene to be one of Teal'c's lessons. Tea'lc had already manipulated Ronon into losing his temper in the Mess Hall. What I wanted to see was Teal'c doing this again with the result that Ronon just charged in like a bull in a china shop and Teal'c defeated him by keeping his head and using strategy.

As for it being beneath Teal'c to get involved in such a thing, well he's a Jaffa and his people's culture is very different to that of the 21st century US. 'Talion' showed us Teal'c tracking down those responsible for his mother's murder and the terrorist attack and the hunt ends with a fight to the death between him and Arkad. Bra'tak, Teal'c's wise old mentor, makes comments like -

http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.co...%22_Transcript

BRA'TAC: There was a time when you would've come away from such a battle without a scratch.

BRA'TAC: I would not like to be the one who opposes you.

BRA'TAC: I have not said this to you before, and I should have. You are the son I never had. I could not be more proud.

So back to one of my original comments about 'Midway'.

I got the impression that this episode had been inspired by a GW topic like "Who would win in a fight? Ronon or Teal'c?". TPTB then chickened out of having a winner and presented them as being equally good at slaughtering Wraith redshirts.

BSG used the idea of Galactica crew members letting off steam by having organised boxing matches which weren't confined to people fighting others of their own rank. I thought this episode worked very well so would have enjoyed something more like this between Ronon and Teal'c.

PS: BSG episode I mentioned.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfinis...r_Galactica%29

The crew of Galactica have reinstated an old military tradition by setting up a boxing ring and putting rank aside — by the placing of dog tags in a metal box — crew and officers freely duke it out in one-on-one matches.

I watched the episode and am well aware of how the fight came about. I still think Sam acted correctly in calling it off. And I still think it was childish and immature of those two men to be fighting like that. It was obviously not sanctioned by those in charge (Sam) - I think Shephard was out of line to suggest going to the gym and working things out between themselves. He overstepped his authority there, especially given that when Sam broke it up, Teal'c and Ronon had already been fighting for an hour and neither was about to stop until his opponent was likely out cold on the floor. Ronon was the one with the problem, not Teal'c. And fighting it out was no solution to Ronon's temper; fighting only makes him madder. (Hmmm ... is "madder" a word???)

And I do still think the whole thing was beneath Teal'c, especially given his history and realizing that something like this wasn't going to solve anything with Ronon. He's older (about 150+?), and presumably wiser by now, and has been more or less a political adviser on Chulak, since I don't think he's been going on many (if any) missions with SG1 since Sam went to Atlantis. And Sam didn't invite him to Atlantis to get into a fight with Ronon just to see who would win or who could teach the other anything.

And I really prefer not to compare anything about SGA to BSG.