Just wondering about the rules for Time Travel in the Stargate universe. Is it possible to come up with a theory that covers all the instances that we've seen so far?
The theory that seems to fit best is the branching universe theory. When someone (or something) goes back in time the timeline is forked at the moment they arrive. Initially the two universes are the same with the exception of the time traveller being present in the new universe and not in the original, and thereafter they evolve separately. If someone or something travels forward in time a new timeline is not created since no events that have already happened are affected.
So, does this work with the 7 timetravel episodes that I know of (let me know if I've forgotten any!)
TIme: (SGU)
Works fine.
Timeline 1: Everyone goes to the planet and die, Rush and a kino go through the stargate and are sent back in time.
Timeline 2: Created when Rush and the Kino arrive. In this timeline when the team arrive at the planet they see the kino and view it, changing their actions. A kino is sent back again, creating timeline 3
Timeline 3: Splits from Timeline 2 when Scott's kino arrives. In this timeline the team finds both kinos and uses Scotts message to save themselves.
After all is done, in Timeline 1 and 2 everyone is dead, in timeline 3 they are alive and this is the timeline we follow in the series going on.
Flow of events in the final timeline: Some time in the past Rush and a Kino come through the stargate. SOme time later another kino comes through the stargate. Finally the party show up on the planet, retrieve the Kinos, grab some of the critters after seeing Scott's message and cure themselves.
2010: (SG1)
Works fine.
Original timeline, the Aschen take over the earth and start their genocide plan. The warning message is sent though the stargate, creating timeline 2
Timeline 2: Created when the message arrives. In this timeline they avoid contact with the Aschen
After all is done, in Timeline 1 the Aschen eliminate most of humanity and probably turn the Earth into another farm planet, in Timeline 2 we avoid the Aschen and continue to thrive, and this is the timeline we follow in the series going on
Flow of events in the final timeline: A message comes through the gate and Hammond locks out the address for the Aschen world.
Moebius(SG1).
Nearly works OK, but a few problems.
Original timeline, SG-1 travel back in time to Ancient Egypt, creating timeline 2
Timeline 2: SG-1 retrieve and bury the ZPM. They then live out their lives. In the rebellion Ra takes the stargate away with him. Finally when time advances to the present day wimpy SG-1 travel back in time (via Chulak) creating timeline 3
Timeline 3: Wimpy SG-1 meet up with Timeline 1 Daniel. In this timeline Ra is prevented from removing the stargate. Wimpy SG-1 and Timeline 1 Daniel all die in the past. In the present day, Timeline 3 SG-1 decides that they need to recover a ZPM from the past... but they found it buried in Egypt. No need to go to the past at all.
After all is done in timeline 1 SG-1 travel to the past... and are never seen again.
In Timeline 2 SG-1 steal the ZPM from Ra and bury it. Unfortunately they cannot return to the future and live out their lives in the fast. In the present day a ZPM is discovered buried in Egypt. Wimpy SG-1 travel to the past... and are never seen again
In Timeline 3 Wimpy SG-1 meets up with Daniel and prevent Ra from taking the stargate. Wimpy SG-1 and Daniel die in the past. In the present day Timeline 3 SG-1 thinks about travelling to the past, but doesn't go anywhere. This is the timeline we follow going on.
Flow of events in the final timeline. Timeline 1 SG-1 arrive and steal the ZPM. Daniel survives until Wimpy SG-1 arrives. They prevent Ra from taking the stargate and then live out their lives in the past. In the present day, Timeline 3 SG-1 don't travel anywhere but find the buried ZPM
Problems. Timeline 3 SG-1 should have no memories of the events of Timeline 1. Jack should remember that his pond always did have fish, only the audience should know that something has changed...
Before I Sleep.
Works fine.
Original timeline: SGA team arrive in Atlantis, the city runs out of power and floods, killing everyone except Weir who travels back in time creating timeline 2.
Timeline 2: Weir arrives in the past and persuades Janus to get Atlantis to surface if it runs out of power. Weir then 'sleeps' 10000 years. In the present the Timeline 2 SGA team arrive. Atlantis runs out of power, but surfaces, surviving. Later they find Timeline 1 Weir and learn of the original timeline.
After all is done, in timeline 1, everyone dies and Atlantis rots on the ocean floor.
In timeline 2 everyone survives, Atlantis surfaces and this is the timeline we follow going on.
The Last Man
Works fine.
Original timeline: Sheppard travels to the future and finds Atlantis dead amongst the sand dunes. Later he travels back in time creating timeline 2.
Timeline 2: Sheppard arrives back unexpectedly and the hunt for Teyla is on. This is the timeline we follow going on.
After all is done, in timeline 1 Sheppard is lost in the future and Michael takes over Pegasus
In timeline 2 Sheppard disappears for 12 days and then returns. 48000 years in the future Sheppard appears from the past and then returns to yet another timeline which we don't follow.
Note that the final Sheppard is the Timeline 1 Sheppard, before the episode started it was the Timeline 2 sheppard. That Sheppard moved on to timeline 3...
1969
Works, but is a little creepy and mindboggling.
Timeline 1: SG-1 travel to the past. Hammond has no idea that this is going to happen and doesn't give them a note. The travel creates timeline 2
Timeline 2: SG-1 arrive in 1969. They have no note and no idea how to get back to the present. They do interact with Hammond though who remembers them. Timeline 1 SG-1 die in the past (or are still around lying low). In the present day Hammond notices the cut on Carters hand and remembers their encounter in the past. He gives them the note. Timeline 2 SG-1 travel to the past creating timeline 3
Timeline 3: T2 SG-1 arrive and interact with Hammond. They travel to the future and meet Cassie, who sends them back to the past creating timeline 5. In the present day Timeline 3 SG-1 travel back to 1969 creating timeline 4. However note that timeline 5 does not branch off from timeline 3 until after T3 SG1 have travelled back,meaning that timeline 4 and 5 both branch from timeline 3
Timeline 4: Timeline 3 SG1 arrive and interact with Hammond. They then travel to the future and meet Cassie who sends them back to timeline 7. In In the present day Timeline 4 SG-1 travel back to 1969 creating timeline 6. Again, 6 and 7 both branch from timeline 4. 4,6 and 7 are identical to 3,4 and 5 and the pattern repeats ad-infinitum. The final timeline can be taken to be timeline 5 which is the first timeline in which SG-1 get home.
After all is done in timeline 1 SG-1 step through the gate and are never seen again
In timeline 2: SG-1 arrive in 1969, meet Hammond and then die/vanish from the story. In the present T2 SG-1 are given a note by Hammond and step through the gate.. never to be seen again
In timeline 3: T2 SG-1 arrive and meet Hammond. They then jump forwards in time. In the present day T3 SG-1 are given the note and step into the gate. In the future T2 SG-1 arrive and are sent back in time by Cassie
In timeline 4: T3 SG-1 arrives and meet Hammond. They then jump forwards in time. In the present day T4 SG-1 are given the note and step into the gate. In the future T3 SG-1 arrive and are sent back in time by Cassie
In timeline 5: Same as timeline 3 until in the present day, after T3 SG-1 have left this timeline splits off and T2 SG-1 arrives back from the future. Nothing happens in the future in this timeline. This is the timeline we follow going on.
Flow of events in the final timeline: 1969 T2 SG-1 arrives, meets Hammond and then jumps to the future. In the present day T3 SG-1 get the note and head through the gate. Shortly afterwards T2 SG-1 arrive back from the future. In the future nothing happens (T2-SG1 was send back from timeline 3)
Window of Opportunity
Sort of works, but problems.
Works, as long as you 'scope' the timeline to the subspace bubble created by the ancient device
Every loop Jack, Teal'c and Malakai's conscienceness is sent back to create a new timeline in which the events of that loop play out.
When all is done, every timeline has the events of the loop in which it happened and then it continues with Jack and Teal'c not travelling back.
Flow of the final timeline: Events happen as normal until the machine is activated. The events of the final loop then happen, the machine is deactivated and life goes on.
Problem. Apparently time outside the subspace region advanced by the total of all the time spend in the loops. To fix that up you have to assume that the Ancient machine sent everything forwards in time by the appropriate amount when the loop is broken.
Continuum
Problems.
Timeline 1: SG-1 watch the execution of Baal. The Real Baal travels back to the past creating timeline 2
Timeline 2: Somehow T1 SG-1 manage to cross to T2, reasoning unknown. They thwart T1 Baal and then die/live in the past. In the present T2 SG-1 watch the execution of Baal.
Doesn't really work. people shouldn't just vanish in puffs of smoke, a-la Back to the Future, when Baal went back in time he left this timeline and should have no effect on it at all. What should have happened is that the execution happens without incident and SG-1 would never know that Baal had travelled back in time.
In the timeline Baal travelled to there would be no SG-1 to thwart him (not that that would save him from Qetesh) and humanity would be in trouble.
Wouldn't have made a good film though I guess.
Any ideas on how to resolve the problems, or a theory which works better?
--Rakhal
The theory that seems to fit best is the branching universe theory. When someone (or something) goes back in time the timeline is forked at the moment they arrive. Initially the two universes are the same with the exception of the time traveller being present in the new universe and not in the original, and thereafter they evolve separately. If someone or something travels forward in time a new timeline is not created since no events that have already happened are affected.
So, does this work with the 7 timetravel episodes that I know of (let me know if I've forgotten any!)
TIme: (SGU)
Works fine.
Timeline 1: Everyone goes to the planet and die, Rush and a kino go through the stargate and are sent back in time.
Timeline 2: Created when Rush and the Kino arrive. In this timeline when the team arrive at the planet they see the kino and view it, changing their actions. A kino is sent back again, creating timeline 3
Timeline 3: Splits from Timeline 2 when Scott's kino arrives. In this timeline the team finds both kinos and uses Scotts message to save themselves.
After all is done, in Timeline 1 and 2 everyone is dead, in timeline 3 they are alive and this is the timeline we follow in the series going on.
Flow of events in the final timeline: Some time in the past Rush and a Kino come through the stargate. SOme time later another kino comes through the stargate. Finally the party show up on the planet, retrieve the Kinos, grab some of the critters after seeing Scott's message and cure themselves.
2010: (SG1)
Works fine.
Original timeline, the Aschen take over the earth and start their genocide plan. The warning message is sent though the stargate, creating timeline 2
Timeline 2: Created when the message arrives. In this timeline they avoid contact with the Aschen
After all is done, in Timeline 1 the Aschen eliminate most of humanity and probably turn the Earth into another farm planet, in Timeline 2 we avoid the Aschen and continue to thrive, and this is the timeline we follow in the series going on
Flow of events in the final timeline: A message comes through the gate and Hammond locks out the address for the Aschen world.
Moebius(SG1).
Nearly works OK, but a few problems.
Original timeline, SG-1 travel back in time to Ancient Egypt, creating timeline 2
Timeline 2: SG-1 retrieve and bury the ZPM. They then live out their lives. In the rebellion Ra takes the stargate away with him. Finally when time advances to the present day wimpy SG-1 travel back in time (via Chulak) creating timeline 3
Timeline 3: Wimpy SG-1 meet up with Timeline 1 Daniel. In this timeline Ra is prevented from removing the stargate. Wimpy SG-1 and Timeline 1 Daniel all die in the past. In the present day, Timeline 3 SG-1 decides that they need to recover a ZPM from the past... but they found it buried in Egypt. No need to go to the past at all.
After all is done in timeline 1 SG-1 travel to the past... and are never seen again.
In Timeline 2 SG-1 steal the ZPM from Ra and bury it. Unfortunately they cannot return to the future and live out their lives in the fast. In the present day a ZPM is discovered buried in Egypt. Wimpy SG-1 travel to the past... and are never seen again
In Timeline 3 Wimpy SG-1 meets up with Daniel and prevent Ra from taking the stargate. Wimpy SG-1 and Daniel die in the past. In the present day Timeline 3 SG-1 thinks about travelling to the past, but doesn't go anywhere. This is the timeline we follow going on.
Flow of events in the final timeline. Timeline 1 SG-1 arrive and steal the ZPM. Daniel survives until Wimpy SG-1 arrives. They prevent Ra from taking the stargate and then live out their lives in the past. In the present day, Timeline 3 SG-1 don't travel anywhere but find the buried ZPM
Problems. Timeline 3 SG-1 should have no memories of the events of Timeline 1. Jack should remember that his pond always did have fish, only the audience should know that something has changed...
Before I Sleep.
Works fine.
Original timeline: SGA team arrive in Atlantis, the city runs out of power and floods, killing everyone except Weir who travels back in time creating timeline 2.
Timeline 2: Weir arrives in the past and persuades Janus to get Atlantis to surface if it runs out of power. Weir then 'sleeps' 10000 years. In the present the Timeline 2 SGA team arrive. Atlantis runs out of power, but surfaces, surviving. Later they find Timeline 1 Weir and learn of the original timeline.
After all is done, in timeline 1, everyone dies and Atlantis rots on the ocean floor.
In timeline 2 everyone survives, Atlantis surfaces and this is the timeline we follow going on.
The Last Man
Works fine.
Original timeline: Sheppard travels to the future and finds Atlantis dead amongst the sand dunes. Later he travels back in time creating timeline 2.
Timeline 2: Sheppard arrives back unexpectedly and the hunt for Teyla is on. This is the timeline we follow going on.
After all is done, in timeline 1 Sheppard is lost in the future and Michael takes over Pegasus
In timeline 2 Sheppard disappears for 12 days and then returns. 48000 years in the future Sheppard appears from the past and then returns to yet another timeline which we don't follow.
Note that the final Sheppard is the Timeline 1 Sheppard, before the episode started it was the Timeline 2 sheppard. That Sheppard moved on to timeline 3...
1969
Works, but is a little creepy and mindboggling.
Timeline 1: SG-1 travel to the past. Hammond has no idea that this is going to happen and doesn't give them a note. The travel creates timeline 2
Timeline 2: SG-1 arrive in 1969. They have no note and no idea how to get back to the present. They do interact with Hammond though who remembers them. Timeline 1 SG-1 die in the past (or are still around lying low). In the present day Hammond notices the cut on Carters hand and remembers their encounter in the past. He gives them the note. Timeline 2 SG-1 travel to the past creating timeline 3
Timeline 3: T2 SG-1 arrive and interact with Hammond. They travel to the future and meet Cassie, who sends them back to the past creating timeline 5. In the present day Timeline 3 SG-1 travel back to 1969 creating timeline 4. However note that timeline 5 does not branch off from timeline 3 until after T3 SG1 have travelled back,meaning that timeline 4 and 5 both branch from timeline 3
Timeline 4: Timeline 3 SG1 arrive and interact with Hammond. They then travel to the future and meet Cassie who sends them back to timeline 7. In In the present day Timeline 4 SG-1 travel back to 1969 creating timeline 6. Again, 6 and 7 both branch from timeline 4. 4,6 and 7 are identical to 3,4 and 5 and the pattern repeats ad-infinitum. The final timeline can be taken to be timeline 5 which is the first timeline in which SG-1 get home.
After all is done in timeline 1 SG-1 step through the gate and are never seen again
In timeline 2: SG-1 arrive in 1969, meet Hammond and then die/vanish from the story. In the present T2 SG-1 are given a note by Hammond and step through the gate.. never to be seen again
In timeline 3: T2 SG-1 arrive and meet Hammond. They then jump forwards in time. In the present day T3 SG-1 are given the note and step into the gate. In the future T2 SG-1 arrive and are sent back in time by Cassie
In timeline 4: T3 SG-1 arrives and meet Hammond. They then jump forwards in time. In the present day T4 SG-1 are given the note and step into the gate. In the future T3 SG-1 arrive and are sent back in time by Cassie
In timeline 5: Same as timeline 3 until in the present day, after T3 SG-1 have left this timeline splits off and T2 SG-1 arrives back from the future. Nothing happens in the future in this timeline. This is the timeline we follow going on.
Flow of events in the final timeline: 1969 T2 SG-1 arrives, meets Hammond and then jumps to the future. In the present day T3 SG-1 get the note and head through the gate. Shortly afterwards T2 SG-1 arrive back from the future. In the future nothing happens (T2-SG1 was send back from timeline 3)
Window of Opportunity
Sort of works, but problems.
Works, as long as you 'scope' the timeline to the subspace bubble created by the ancient device
Every loop Jack, Teal'c and Malakai's conscienceness is sent back to create a new timeline in which the events of that loop play out.
When all is done, every timeline has the events of the loop in which it happened and then it continues with Jack and Teal'c not travelling back.
Flow of the final timeline: Events happen as normal until the machine is activated. The events of the final loop then happen, the machine is deactivated and life goes on.
Problem. Apparently time outside the subspace region advanced by the total of all the time spend in the loops. To fix that up you have to assume that the Ancient machine sent everything forwards in time by the appropriate amount when the loop is broken.
Continuum
Problems.
Timeline 1: SG-1 watch the execution of Baal. The Real Baal travels back to the past creating timeline 2
Timeline 2: Somehow T1 SG-1 manage to cross to T2, reasoning unknown. They thwart T1 Baal and then die/live in the past. In the present T2 SG-1 watch the execution of Baal.
Doesn't really work. people shouldn't just vanish in puffs of smoke, a-la Back to the Future, when Baal went back in time he left this timeline and should have no effect on it at all. What should have happened is that the execution happens without incident and SG-1 would never know that Baal had travelled back in time.
In the timeline Baal travelled to there would be no SG-1 to thwart him (not that that would save him from Qetesh) and humanity would be in trouble.
Wouldn't have made a good film though I guess.
Any ideas on how to resolve the problems, or a theory which works better?
--Rakhal
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