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toby1kanobi
November 21st, 2009, 06:03 AM
WOOOOOO see i told you guys the core of icarus was naquadria and i got shouted down by some, i said in previous threads that naquadria was found by the ancients and then they found a way to reproduce it, and hat the ascended anubis found out how to from them, now the fact that a planet with natural naquadria exists goes a long way to giving that point some validity

MattSilver 3k
November 21st, 2009, 06:07 AM
WOOOOOO see i told you guys the core of icarus was naquadria and i got shouted down by some, i said in previous threads that naquadria was found by the ancients and then they found a way to reproduce it, and hat the ascended anubis found out how to from them, now the fact that a planet with natural naquadria exists goes a long way to giving that point some validity

Okay. Good for you - here's a trophy!

And some of us have known it's been Naquadria since a web video following the premiere episode - one of the Daniel Jackson vids have him tell the audience the Icarus planet has a core of Naquadria.

toby1kanobi
November 21st, 2009, 06:11 AM
Okay. Good for you - here's a trophy!

And some of us have known it's been Naquadria since a web video following the premiere episode - one of the Daniel Jackson vids have him tell the audience the Icarus planet has a core of Naquadria.

i very much hope its a big trophey... i didnt see the part with the "hi my name is dr daniel jackson" videos, and come to think of it i still got shouted down after those so aparently a lot of ppl wernt taking a lot of notice. so insted or a really bad attempt as carcasm how about a well done you spotted it. or maybe nothing at all. the forum is for sharing ideas, and feedback on the shows both pos and neg. not for wanna be funny men

thekillman
November 21st, 2009, 06:13 AM
oh great, you're a genious.


radioactive energetic material. doesnt that SHOUT naquahdriah? since uranium doesnt occur enough?


anyway, it's possible sufficient neutron or radioactive bombardment on a planet makes it naturally occuring. half life and volatility make it superultramega rare. but it was never impossible

toby1kanobi
November 21st, 2009, 06:16 AM
oh great, you're a genious.


radioactive energetic material. doesnt that SHOUT naquahdriah? since uranium doesnt occur enough?


anyway, it's possible sufficient neutron or radioactive bombardment on a planet makes it naturally occuring. half life and volatility make it superultramega rare. but it was never impossible

wouldnt that kind of dombardment need either a very odd form of cosmis radiation, or close proximity to a pulsar or similar?

jsonitsac
November 21st, 2009, 07:15 AM
Rush lied about the whole thing. Until proven otherwise, I still stick by Jonas' comments that Naquardira is artificial.

Yoshi442
November 21st, 2009, 10:21 AM
^^

That seems to be a silly stance, since they basically established that the Icharus planet has naturally occurring naquadria.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 10:27 AM
Uhm, what's the subject of this thread? I don't understand what you are asking or wanting to discuss? The fact that Naquadriah is actually naturally occurring?

As far as I was aware Naquadriah is not something that naturally occurs, but can be created somehow though.

As for the fact that the Icarus base planet has a Naquadriah core, that has been pretty much established cannon for a long while now.

thekillman
November 21st, 2009, 10:33 AM
wouldnt that kind of dombardment need either a very odd form of cosmis radiation, or close proximity to a pulsar or similar?

ok. update here. every second, a trillion particles penetrate your body, and the entire planet. they're called neutrino's. and they barely interact.

then, a few million particles hit you every second. they're called photons.

lastly, there are charged particles like protons coming down, but most of them are stopped by the magnet field.


if the star is a second generation star, perhaps even a third generation one, and the planet is one of the few planets, and has had a lot of neutron bombardment, and the core is filled with uranium, (which later on fused to become Naquahdah), and even later on, the naquahdah underwent an exotic particle bombardment to change to Naquahdriah, then this entire sum combined means it has natural Naquahdriah.


the odds are extreme, but if in 14 years of exploration, we only just found ONE planet with naquahdriah, then it is clear that it's possible and rare.


besides, naquahdah is supposed to be rare, however the ancients terraformed most naquahdah rich planets to habitable ones and planet gates, thus making the accessible naquahdah common. naquahdriah would create mutations and would be very lethal. Icarus had a shield, and i wont be impressed if it was in place to shield from the radiation.



anyway, naquahdah already requires exotic particles or forces to even exist. a material that heavy would instantly decay. so, apparently there are new forces at work.

the exotic particles that convert it to naquahdriah would be strange too (perhaps kiron radiation?) they've never been discovered by us.

so, the probability is extremely low. but that still means it's possible.

also, jonas saying it's artificial isnt that strange either. i mean, it's superheavy and radioactive. if you know the halve time, then yes, it shouldn't be natural. many elements we know are artificial, simply because they have already decayed. the fact that icarus still has some, means that it isnt that old.

garhkal
November 21st, 2009, 11:28 AM
Part of me hopes that there IS a planet like that out there, and rush knows it.

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 11:49 AM
As far as I was aware Naquadriah is not something that naturally occurs, but can be created somehow though.

As for the fact that the Icarus base planet has a Naquadriah core, that has been pretty much established cannon for a long while now.

Thanos created the naquadria artificially, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible that a natural chain of events might not have the same effect. The fact that they've only found it on one planet other than Kelowna would seem to indicate that, if it did occur naturally on the planet where Icarus base was located, those circumstances would be a very rare combination of events. At the same time, they don't actually know how the naquadria core occured. It's possible that it was artificial, too. It's possible that either Thanos was doing experiments on more than one planet, or someone else was. There's no way too tell.

I'm sorry that Rush was lying. A glimmer of hope and a clear direction for the crew would have been a welcome change and led to plots about efforts to achieve something instead of all the hopeless flailing.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 11:51 AM
Well, I thought JM said on his blog that Icarus did not have naturally occurring Naquadriah, but that it was created by us.

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 12:03 PM
Well, I thought JM said on his blog that Icarus did not have naturally occurring Naquadriah, but that it was created by us.

He might have, but that isn't the impression that the Daniel Jackson video gave. While some argument could be made as to the canon nature of those videos, as they were the videos that were shown to Eli onscreen, comments in the blog can't be considered canon, but rather one man's opinion. An opinion by someone involved with the series, yes, but just an opinion unless it's stated onscreen. Otherwise, it can change anytime to suit convenience.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 12:06 PM
He might have, but that isn't the impression that the Daniel Jackson video gave. While some argument could be made as to the canon nature of those videos, as they were the videos that were shown to Eli onscreen, comments in the blog can't be considered canon, but rather one man's opinion. An opinion by someone involved with the series, yes, but just an opinion unless it's stated onscreen. Otherwise, it can change anytime to suit convenience.

Well I consider those videos, just like the other videos, as for example the Kinos, to be cannon. So what did Daniel say actually that makes you think that? Also could you maybe provide a link as it could be that I'm confusing or not remembering something. :)

Thanks!

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 12:20 PM
Well I consider those videos, just like the other videos, as for example the Kinos, to be cannon. So what did Daniel say actually that makes you think that? Also could you maybe provide a link as it could be that I'm confusing or not remembering something.

He said Icarus based was established on a planet discovered two years ago to have a uniquely powerful core of naquadria, not that they'd created it. It's in the 'Daniel Jacson on the Stargate' video:
http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/1654/embed_vid/977/index.html

thekillman
November 21st, 2009, 12:31 PM
unique properties.



actually, artificial elements do not really exist. well, it refers to man-produced elements, so all naquahdriah on kelowna was by definition artificial. natural would mean that it was produced through natural means, like natural radiation. because obviously, the radiation needed is quite rare and exotic, it's more or less a freak accident.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 03:56 PM
He said Icarus based was established on a planet discovered two years ago to have a uniquely powerful core of naquadria, not that they'd created it. It's in the 'Daniel Jacson on the Stargate' video:
http://stargate.mgm.com/view/content/1654/embed_vid/977/index.html

Yeah, he (Daniel) indeed said that the core was made from Naquadriah when they found it. Could still be artificial though, but apparently not created by us.

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 03:59 PM
Yeah, he (Daniel) indeed said that the core was made from Naquadriah when they found it. Could still be artificial though, but apparently not created by us.

Yep, we haven't heard any speculation as to how it occured. Now, if they find another planet like that, outside the Milky Way, it would be a pretty good indication that it can occur naturally.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 04:01 PM
Yep, we haven't heard any speculation as to how it occured. Now, if they find another planet like that, outside the Milky Way, it would be a pretty good indication that it can occur naturally.

Yeah, thanks for the link though!

Anyway, wasn't there a theory that Naquadriah was/is the predecessor of Naquadah?

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 04:02 PM
Anyway, wasn't there a theory that Naquadriah was/is the predecessor of Naquadah?

The opposite. Naquadah is used to create Naquadria. Thanos did stuff (scientific, I know) to the Naquadah on Kelowna to create the first known naquadria.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 04:05 PM
The opposite. Naquadah is used to create Naquadria.

Yeah, you can artificially reverse the progress of degradation to create Naquadriah out of Naquadah, but wasn't it so that if Naquadriah is just stuck in the ground it will degrade to Naquadah? No? I thought that was mentioned in SG1. So, further there was a theory that Naquadriah was the predecessor of Naquadah. :)

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 04:16 PM
Yeah, you can artificially reverse the progress of degradation to create Naquadriah out of Naquadah, but wasn't it so that if Naquadriah is just stuck in the ground it will degrade to Naquadah? No? I thought that was mentioned in SG1. So, further there was a theory that Naquadriah was the predecessor of Naquadah. :)

Thinking.... I don't recall that. If it was mentioned anywhere, it would have been in Fallout, but I don't think it was. The issue in Fallout wasn't that the existing naquadria was problematic and rate of degradation was necessary to discuss, but that a chain reaction was causing all the naquadah in the planet to convert to naquadria, which would have led to the kind of instability that occurred in SGU. It's possible, but if that were the case, you'd think there would have been discussion of the eventual loss of the material that powered their hyperdrive engines.

Count
November 21st, 2009, 04:19 PM
Naquadria decays back to Naqhahdah. Carter explains it in Fallout, that if the Kelownans hasn't detonated the Naquadria bomb on their world and flooded a naqahdah vein with the radiation it needed to start converting, the Naquadria would have decayed back to "elemental naqhahdah" in 10,000 years.

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 04:23 PM
Naquadria decays back to Naqhahdah. Carter explains it in Fallout, that if the Kelownans hasn't detonated the Naquadria bomb on their world and flooded a naqahdah vein with the radiation it needed to start converting, the Naquadria would have decayed back to "elemental naqhahdah" in 10,000 years.

Ah! Thanks for the info! So it's like a half-life thing, not something that could be done at will or will affect the fleet.... I had a vague memory but not it being something doable.

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 04:27 PM
Thinking.... I don't recall that. If it was mentioned anywhere, it would have been in Fallout, but I don't think it was. The issue in Fallout wasn't that the existing naquadria was problematic and rate of degradation was necessary to discuss, but that a chain reaction was causing all the naquadah in the planet to convert to naquadria, which would have led to the kind of instability that occurred in SGU. It's possible, but if that were the case, you'd think there would have been discussion of the eventual loss of the material that powered their hyperdrive engines.

In "Fallout" it is said that in 20,000 years, the Naquadria (created by Thanos) would have decayed back into Naquadah, but the Kelownans (Jonas' people) tested a Naquadria bomb and subatomic particles from the explosion penetrated the planet's crust. They triggered the conversion of a second, deeper vein of Naquadah. As the conversion process traveled deeper underground, the heat and pressure increased until the highly unstable nature of the resulting Naquadria threatened to explode and obliterate Kelowna. The process could not be reversed, however SG-1 cooperated with the Kelownans and used a deep underground excavation vehicle to deposit a small nuclear device near a minor fault line crossing the vein of naquadah in order to trigger a shift along the fault and isolate the advancing naquadria. The mission was successful, and Kelowna was spared.

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 04:31 PM
I'm guessing that's a quote and you weren't just holding out on us. ;)

Jper
November 21st, 2009, 04:34 PM
I'm guessing that's a quote and you weren't just holding out on us. ;)

Quote? I just looked it up on the Internet and then rewrote/edited it a bit to post here. :) As an explanation. However, I was pretty sure that Naguadriah decays/degrades back into Naquadah, even before I looked it up.

Carlinhos_B
November 21st, 2009, 05:12 PM
The question I have is why didn't the planet blow up a long time ago? Langaria, Jonas Quinn's planet was about to become uninhabitable because of the naquadria was exploding due to pressure placed on it by the planet.

amconway
November 21st, 2009, 05:37 PM
The question I have is why didn't the planet blow up a long time ago? Langaria, Jonas Quinn's planet was about to become uninhabitable because of the naquadria was exploding due to pressure placed on it by the planet.

Different planet, different structural issues, I guess. Maybe this naquadria was initially more stable since there hadn't been any underground naquadria detonations, at least it was until things started blowing up.

escyos
November 21st, 2009, 07:34 PM
WOOOOOO see i told you guys the core of icarus was naquadria and i got shouted down by some, i said in previous threads that naquadria was found by the ancients and then they found a way to reproduce it, and hat the ascended anubis found out how to from them, now the fact that a planet with natural naquadria exists goes a long way to giving that point some validity

for the last time people, the ancients NEVER colonised Icarus planet, there was NEVER a gate there until we found it and PUT ONE THERE!

KEK
November 21st, 2009, 07:37 PM
WOOOOOO see i told you guys the core of icarus was naquadria and i got shouted down by some, i said in previous threads that naquadria was found by the ancients and then they found a way to reproduce it, and hat the ascended anubis found out how to from them, now the fact that a planet with natural naquadria exists goes a long way to giving that point some validity

Not really, as it was made up by Rush.

kymeric
November 21st, 2009, 10:01 PM
ok. update here. every second, a trillion particles penetrate your body, and the entire planet. they're called neutrino's. and they barely interact.


Nintendo's can go through anything!

Count
November 22nd, 2009, 02:14 AM
Yup, This guy confirms what most of the forums, the Kinosodes and the promotional Daniel Jackson videos said about Icarus base, made of Naquadria. Go this guy for stating the obvious!!

naturally of course, since we know how Naquadria is developed, we can easily state with almost 100% certainty that Naquadira was NOT put on that planet by the ancients. The halflife is too short, so unless the ancients upon abandoning their technology found some way to fly to another planet using prayer and pixie dust and start a naqahdah - > naquadria reaction, you're still wrong. Not to mention they'd have no need for the Destiny once they had ascended anyway...

jsonitsac
November 22nd, 2009, 06:33 AM
Yup, This guy confirms what most of the forums, the Kinosodes and the promotional Daniel Jackson videos said about Icarus base, made of Naquadria. Go this guy for stating the obvious!!

naturally of course, since we know how Naquadria is developed, we can easily state with almost 100% certainty that Naquadira was NOT put on that planet by the ancients. The halflife is too short, so unless the ancients upon abandoning their technology found some way to fly to another planet using prayer and pixie dust and start a naqahdah - > naquadria reaction, you're still wrong. Not to mention they'd have no need for the Destiny once they had ascended anyway...

So maybe its time to start looking for suspects.

Goa'uld They certainly have the technological capabilities to terraform a planet (e.g. Sokar and Netu), and have experimented with the mineral in the past. However, if it was them one would have expected the System Lord to use the naquadria in an attempt to dominate enemies, rather than dial into Destiny.

Asgard Not outside the realm of possibilities and it would explain how the Bad Asgard got their hands on those environmental suits. However, if it was the Asgard wouldn't the Tau'ri have come across something about 9 chevron addresses in the Asgard Core? Also, the Asgard seldom use the gate system, preferring spaceships.

Nox, Furlings, Replicators, Someone else, Unknown, etc.
I just threw this in here because I think something unexpected and someone who we don't know much about most likely did it.

thekillman
November 22nd, 2009, 07:45 AM
or maybe it was natural. what's interesting is, is that it must have happened less than..


*realisation*


ten. thousand. years. ago....


do you guys catch my drift?

Jericho
November 23rd, 2009, 01:04 PM
Does that mean they can just go to Kelowna and dial up Destiny? If the Kelownans don't mind the possibility of their planet exploding that is, lol.

Jper
November 23rd, 2009, 01:38 PM
If the Kelownans don't mind the possibility of their planet exploding that is, lol.

Well, that might be a problem.

thekillman
November 23rd, 2009, 01:56 PM
kelowna has a few veins of naquahdriah. that's a massive difference from a CORE of naquahdriah

amconway
November 23rd, 2009, 02:01 PM
kelowna has a few veins of naquahdriah. that's a massive difference from a CORE of naquahdriah

Which points out that a planet that can have that much naquadria and still be relatively stable must be even more rare than a planet with any naquadria at all. Kelowna was going to go boom long before it reached that point.

Count
November 23rd, 2009, 02:12 PM
I think it had to have been a NATURAL reaction to produce the naquadria core of that planet. Something like a supernova or a solar flare nearby giving just the right amount of energy/radiation required to trigger some naqahdah conversion on the surface, and then it's a self contained reaction until the entire core is converted. Probably more of a fluke then anything that it didnt explode, which is why the planet was so rare and why they wouldnt be able to duplicate it so easily even if they had a naquahdah-core planet of similar proportions.

One tiny vein in kelowna nearly blew the planet apart, so imagine trying to convert a whole planet.

as for Goa'uld/Asgard intervention. Goa'ulds never knew about Naquadria, not even Anubis, it was only Thanos who was experimenting with naqahdah that discovered it. And for the asgard... why would they need it? They can jump between galaxies in mere minutes/hours, they have enough power, they wouldn't need to build a highly unstable planetary core just for omnidirectional use.

Eternal Density
November 23rd, 2009, 10:12 PM
Given that naquadria is pretty dense stuff, and given that Icarus has livable gravity, but would have to be a relatively small planet. Hmm, I wonder if there was some other element mixed in with the naquadria that stabilised it somewhat... or perhaps it formed some other allotrope like 'liquid naquadria' which is hypothetically more stable at higher pressures...
(and by hypothetically, I mean imaginarily)

Ekras
November 26th, 2009, 06:55 PM
Since this is now known "fact" in the series, couldn't they send refinforcements/supplies to the Destiny team? All they would need to do is find a planet with a Naquadah core, and set off a Naqadria bomb similar to what happened on Jonas Quinns planet (Colona?). This would "convert" the naquada to naquadria and allow them to use the excess power to dial the Destiny....

Steelbox
November 27th, 2009, 03:33 AM
Since this is now known "fact" in the series, couldn't they send refinforcements/supplies to the Destiny team? All they would need to do is find a planet with a Naquadah core, and set off a Naqadria bomb similar to what happened on Jonas Quinns planet (Colona?). This would "convert" the naquada to naquadria and allow them to use the excess power to dial the Destiny....

Doing that would certainly result in an catastrophic explosion that would easily destroy the solar system and probably other surrounding it. The process that started in Kelowna was fastened by the bomb and thus was to unstable and prowned to explosion. The process on Icarus planet was (probably) sustained slowly for millions of years if not billions and the core could never get too critical to explode. Remember, Naquadriah get exponentially more unstable as you extract more energy from it, so a slow reaction, and a mean, slowwwwwwww, could convert a naquadah core stably with no risk of explosion.

thekillman
November 27th, 2009, 09:26 AM
what if, the naquahdriah was formed at the surface. then, due to density it sank to the core. because of the immense density and thus gravity, the planet can be quite small

kymeric
November 29th, 2009, 09:52 AM
I think the real question is why could the MW gate take the charge of a planet exploding but the Destiny gate couldnt take the live feed of a sun?

KEK
November 29th, 2009, 10:30 AM
I think the real question is why could the MW gate take the charge of a planet exploding but the Destiny gate couldnt take the live feed of a sun?

Assuming the MW gate did take the charge (I don't think it did) it would probably be because they're more advanced, also if memory serves it wasn't the Destiny gate that couldn't handle the charge, it was the ships conduits.

Jper
November 29th, 2009, 11:57 AM
Gates can absorb enormous amounts of energy. Like KEK said, the conduits was the problem. It's practically always the problem of having enough energy, and when you have a sufficient energy source, you still need to get it into the gate. :)

Also, Rush made sure the power flow was limited. :)