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Shpinxinator
November 20th, 2009, 10:46 PM
I don't understand why so much faith is put in Eli over Rush...I get it Eli is a smart kid and Rush is kind of a d***** bag but really? Rush has been at this alot longer....he's worked with ancient tech and language for much longer...why put your faith for survival in a drop out?

PG15
November 20th, 2009, 10:48 PM
Because they don't trust Rush.

All of his expertise goes out the window when you realize that he could be selling you BS.

Pharaoh Atem
November 20th, 2009, 10:49 PM
the devil you know

Franklyn Blaze
November 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
I like the dueling banjos they have going. Beats the hell out of the McKay/Carter one man bands they had going in the other shows. The faith in Eli started when he broke the code Rush could not. It shows he has talents that exceed Rush's own, and with time he can develop those to be the second opinion on Destiny. Looks good to me.

Shpinxinator
November 20th, 2009, 10:50 PM
Because they don't trust Rush.

All of his expertise goes out the window when you realize that he could be selling you BS.

He wants to survive to though..what's good for him is whats good for the group

Shpinxinator
November 20th, 2009, 10:52 PM
I like the dueling banjos they have going. Beats the hell out of the McKay/Carter one man bands they had going in the other shows. The faith in Eli started when he broke the code Rush could not. It shows he has talents that exceed Rush's own, and with time he can develop those to be the second opinion on Destiny. Looks good to me.

TO be fair his code cracking was a good guess nothing more

Terra Atlantus
November 20th, 2009, 10:59 PM
He's Math Boy...dah

Sifr
November 20th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Probably because he figured out the Dakara Weapons Puzzle in a MONTH playing a MMORPG in his FREE time, versus Rush who'd been working on it for Two YEARS, FULL time, while he's a drop-out, he's definitely got a knack for Ancient tech.

Eli's also a civilian, he has no military training nor reason to follow any chain of command whatsoever on the ship, and thus he is completely free to speak his mind without restraint. While he does do work for Rush and Young, he doesn't HAVE too, but he likes to offer his assistance he can regardless.

He also doesn't pick sides.

While he respects and looks up to Rush, his interactions and conversations with the "Other-Rush" in "Time" almost looking as though he's some kind of "father" figure to him on the ship, he freely acknowledge's he's a "little crazy" and may sometimes go too far.

He also respects and will work for Young, when he thinks its in the best interests of everyone and maybe Rush isn't doing the right thing, if he was in Rush's camp, he wouldn't keep an eye on him for Young, or have reported the finding of the fake Icarus-planet.

The crew seem to trust him, to keep them aprised of whats happening on BOTH sides, when they see the power struggle and butting heads and trust him as the guy to tell them freely whats really going on.

I think that invariably puts a lot of trust in him as a character.

PG15
November 20th, 2009, 11:03 PM
He wants to survive to though..what's good for him is whats good for the group

Not always. That's the point.

You don't know when he's being sincere.

Shpinxinator
November 20th, 2009, 11:05 PM
Not always. That's the point.

You don't know when he's being sincere.

What I mean is he wants to survive and he can't do that alone...he may have secrets but he's not homicidal

PG15
November 20th, 2009, 11:09 PM
Yes, but there is still that untrustworthy middle ground between "I'm completely trustworthy" and "I want to kill everyone".

Vapor
November 20th, 2009, 11:14 PM
What I mean is he wants to survive and he can't do that alone...he may have secrets but he's not homicidal

I don't think he's homicidal, but he is most definitely willing to allow someone else to take enormous risks while he stands there and watches.

Eli is clearly a more open and honest person and, despite his lack of understanding about how "the real world" works, is still ultimately more believable as someone who is working for the best interest of everyone.

Good intentions or not, Rush just looks shady in comparison.

Shpinxinator
November 20th, 2009, 11:15 PM
I don't think he's homicidal, but he is most definitely willing to allow someone else to take enormous risks while he stands there and watches.

Eli is clearly a more open and honest person and, despite his lack of understanding about how "the real world" works, is still ultimately more believable as someone who is working for the best interest of everyone.

Good intentions or not, Rush just looks shady in comparison.

while thats true...Eli simply isn't as capable

Cold Fuzz
November 20th, 2009, 11:21 PM
while thats true...Eli simply isn't as capable

Capable or not, Eli has earned more or less everyone's trust. Rush, on the other hand, isn't really being trusted by anyone. Brody, Park, and Volker started to trust him but now I doubt any of them will after the truth coming out about the deception.

Rush's entire philosophy is that other people are just a means for his own ends. It's a great inconsistency (some would say hypocrisy) in his logic that he's unwilling to undertake the very risks he deems necessary for the "greater good."

Franklyn Blaze
November 20th, 2009, 11:28 PM
TO be fair his code cracking was a good guess nothing more

It was in Ancient, he had to crack something to be able to solve it. Especially when he knew it was correct but the game just reset on him.

eonflux
November 21st, 2009, 12:41 AM
Going to be short. Eli is mathboy'. His strength is maths. NO WAY he can know all in such a short period of time. Just not humanly possible. Also it never has been asatblished that anyone else except Rush read ancient very well.

Franklyn Blaze
November 21st, 2009, 12:55 AM
Also it never has been asatblished that anyone else except Rush read ancient very well.

Huh? It's not Chinese on those consoles, and a lot of them can read it, why else bother looking at screens.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2366/vlcsnap307873.png
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2301/vlcsnap307582.png
http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3525/vlcsnap308109.png

Count
November 21st, 2009, 01:17 AM
Eli is the closest thing to an expert left on the ship, i mean the other scientists are good, but Eli played around on "Prometheus" for so long that he's bound to have picked up a better understanding of ancient tech in real-life (even though it's virtual) applications then the scientists who just study non-working remenants and theoretical models).

Besides, as Young said, Eli has a habit of pulling their asses out of the fire. He's the only one whose shown enough ingenuity to try and problem solve then anyone else on the ship, scientists included. PRoducts of his clever out of the box thinking include: Kino documentaries to help in time travel disasters, Kino based hoverboard, Diverting power from shuttle to controls and hacking the DHD to dial a 9 chevron address. Not to mention with no prior experience he was able to handle ANCIENT Ancient technology after just looking at it briefly (Lockdown functions for the hull breached sections).

Giantevilhead
November 21st, 2009, 02:02 AM
They don't just want to survive, they want to go home to earth. Eli wants to go home, Rush doesn't.

kaliel
November 21st, 2009, 04:05 AM
Because everyone believes that Rush is only out for himself, that he'll use them and lie to them.
Eli, on the other hand, is young and rather innocent. He'll follow Young's orders, do what's best for the people aboard Destiny, and agreed to inform the 'grunts' about what's going on.

Overall, though Rush may be better qualified, Eli is, or almost is, on the same intelligence level and is a more honest and trustworthy person.

Who would you trust? The grumpy ******* who treats everyone like they're not worth his time, or the kid who tries to please people?
I like Rush, but he doesn't win any favours with the crew.

eonflux
November 21st, 2009, 04:14 AM
Huh? It's not Chinese on those consoles, and a lot of them can read it, why else bother looking at screens.


Sry but that was established in light. But seriously it's a fantasy show. Do you really think people think about stuff like this like we do. Do you really think there is someone at the studio to point out if looking at a screen makes sense. If so please give me that job?

But anyways how do you know it's not chinees you can't see what they are looking at in any shot. And to mention the windows like interface if very inefficient to work with. The interface is just lol it makes no sense its just candy.

@count
Eli himself said red is usually bad.

thekillman
November 21st, 2009, 06:04 AM
might i say that as a guy with 4 languages up his brain, there's a gargantuan difference between reading and understanding? for example, english, my second language, is simple, i can understand it, formulate sentences and i do not need to translate. i can think in english. i can read and understand it on a level beyond mere "reading". even if the entire crew could read Ancient, it doesnt get them far. everyone would need a ton of paper or so to first translate, go over the translation, correct the mistakes and then go back and read what it actually says. rush, who can actually understand it, merely looks at the screen and knows what it says. eli knows what it says, but probably through a lot of translation. and besides, if you translate a lot, then you'll rapidly pick up the words wich frequently appear.

most scientists seem to have a meagre understanding and reading ability of ancient. Riley can only translate (earth=terra, not to hard a reference), some like Volker i believe can understand a bit but not perfectly ("if you do not see the signs, GET OUT!)

Daniel could read, speak, understand Ancient on a level very few can. Mckay no doubt can too. but for example, zelenka seems to have a bit more trouble with it, whereas Weir needed to translate

wargrafix
November 21st, 2009, 09:38 AM
Rush is a used car salesman. He's got the lingo, but its all bull.

Kaiphantom
November 21st, 2009, 11:23 AM
Trust is not a binary choice, as in fully trust or fully distrust. There are layers in between.

Rush - you can trust him to get the ship repaired and working. You can trust him to keep them alive (because it will keep him alive). And you know that he knows that he needs everyone to survive, so he'll work to keep people alive as best he can. However, there is some doubt that he will actually work to find a way home. In the end, his work is more important to him than anything else.

Eli - He's the only sane person of the crew. He's intelligent, wise, and a quick learner. He doesn't whine about things, he just goes and does them. He stands up for what he thinks is right. Unfortunately, being a nice guy is a bad thing in the world, as women don't want you, and the rest of the world will chew you up and spit you out. And if there is a way home, I bet Eli is gonna be the one to figure it out.

garhkal
November 21st, 2009, 11:24 AM
Capable or not, Eli has earned more or less everyone's trust. Rush, on the other hand, isn't really being trusted by anyone. Brody, Park, and Volker started to trust him but now I doubt any of them will after the truth coming out about the deception.

Rush's entire philosophy is that other people are just a means for his own ends. It's a great inconsistency (some would say hypocrisy) in his logic that he's unwilling to undertake the very risks he deems necessary for the "greater good."

WARNING sorry for the slighly political bent here..

My mother likened his doing that to how islamic extremists get people to act as suicide bombers while they themselves do nothing.

Pharaoh Atem
November 21st, 2009, 11:26 AM
wli is more trust worthy then rush simple as tha

Skydiver
November 21st, 2009, 11:37 AM
Eli is probably the only person on the ship that doesn't have an agenda. he didn't manipulate or maneuver to get there, he was recruited, so to speak.

thekillman
November 21st, 2009, 12:27 PM
he's kind of a blank slate. ie, he got on board and only was in icarus for about a day or so. the rest was working there for longer, and well, they had their friends and enemies. rush seems to be molding Eli for his own purposes(he only wants eli as a help) yet Young wants to mold him too ( making him go over the data etc)

he can be....shaped and changed to whatever person's likings

Lightning Ducj
November 21st, 2009, 12:53 PM
Simple, Eli is available.

There's a difference between trust and faith of course. I think people have faith in Rush but don't really trust him, or at least see Eli as being more trustable than Rush. I still think Rush is given more faith by the crew and Eli is the backup there. But pretty much they put what faith and trust in Eli or Rush simply because they have no choice. Back on Earth, they would be able to pick the best available for any position. On Destiny, they have to play the cards they've been dealt. TJ as Doctor and Psychiatrist is a more pronounced example

Azzers
November 21st, 2009, 12:57 PM
While I think it's true that Young doesn't trust Rush, I liken faith in Eli to the type of faith you put in a second doctor's opinion. You have your primary Doctor who might say what you want to hear or not. If you don't like what you hear, you need another Doctor to bounce it off of. Because even if you don't like it, you can't understand or have enough experience to call BS (unless of course you're also a doctor, but that's off topic.)

Eli isn't Rush, but I believe there is an understanding that he can figure out what Rush is doing and what logic is being used. He might not arrive as quickly at the solution, and you may not want him working on it in the heat of battle like Rush, but he's definitely capable of actually calling BS on Rush for logical reasons rather than simple distrust.

So I don't think it's faith, so much as it is trying to develop your option B. In Young's mind, I think that's exactly what Eli is.

Cold Fuzz
November 21st, 2009, 11:37 PM
WARNING sorry for the slighly political bent here..

My mother likened his doing that to how islamic extremists get people to act as suicide bombers while they themselves do nothing.

Very good observation. Rush's actions and rhetoric indicates he deems everyone other than himself as expendable. In fact, I would dare say he views life like this: There are those you wish to use, and those who wish to use you. That's the heart of a Machiavellian philosophy; he's very true to it.

retiredat44
November 22nd, 2009, 01:35 PM
.............

Who would you trust? The grumpy ******* who treats everyone like they're not worth his time, or the kid who tries to please people?
I like Rush, but he doesn't win any favours with the crew.

you guys confuse seriousnesses and unsociable.. he sees that most these people are a soap opera and disturbed.. and he's right.. he is working on solutions, and the others are whining, creating problems, and using valuable resources to screw everyone else..

There are a few good people, but they are surrounded by real screwups..

creed462
November 22nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
Eli is seen with the potential to become something. Plus he has already proven he is capable in the crisis where other with better backgrounds have faltered.
Rush, while knowledgeable has proven himself shady and manipulative. They see Eli has the ability to be a great assist.

AutumnDream
November 22nd, 2009, 06:43 PM
It's hard to trust Rush when he could pull an "Adama" at any minute. (I know the way to Earth trust me here, heh.)

Replicator Todd
November 22nd, 2009, 07:20 PM
Eli is Math Boy. That is all that is needed.

Pharaoh Atem
November 22nd, 2009, 07:25 PM
It's hard to trust Rush when he could pull an "Adama" at any minute. (I know the way to Earth trust me here, heh.)

after being on the destiny for a month i think it was great he was trying to give people hope

beafly
November 22nd, 2009, 07:27 PM
/agree with above

Rush is a liar.

Eli is not.

Merlin's_Legacy
November 23rd, 2009, 09:28 AM
I think we can assume Eli is very smart. He even points out to Young that, while he is a college drop-out, he is an MIT drop-out.

And then there's the question of WHY he dropped out... I don't think it was because he was incapable, because he is obviously brilliant. I think he dropped out to take care of his mother when she got sick. That's why she was worried about Eli blaming her for his problems a few episodes back. (I also think his mother is smarter than he gives her credit for and she knew Eli was there, even if she didn't understand how.)

Cory Holmes
November 23rd, 2009, 09:59 AM
Very good observation. Rush's actions and rhetoric indicates he deems everyone other than himself as expendable. In fact, I would dare say he views life like this: There are those you wish to use, and those who wish to use you. That's the heart of a Machiavellian philosophy; he's very true to it.

And yet, Eli is the one who put his arm into an active Stargate to (hopefully) override the ship's timelimit. I can't say this enough. He stuck his arm into a Stargate! Due to his direct actions, Scott and Greer made it back with enough lime to allow everyone on the ship to continue breathing.

When has Rush ever done something that selfless?

Cold Fuzz
November 23rd, 2009, 04:52 PM
And yet, Eli is the one who put his arm into an active Stargate to (hopefully) override the ship's timelimit. I can't say this enough. He stuck his arm into a Stargate! Due to his direct actions, Scott and Greer made it back with enough lime to allow everyone on the ship to continue breathing.

When has Rush ever done something that selfless?

I doubt that we'll be seeing Rush do anything that noble or selfless anytime soon. I think perhaps his character arc is learning to think and believe in something outside his Machiavellian box and learning to see that people aren't just a means to an end. If he seeks ascension, which is something many people have speculated about considering his comments in "Time," I think that one of the very first things he has to examine is how he views and treats people. I dare say Oma Desala, Moros, Ganos Lal, or any of the other ascended Ancients would certainly rebuke him for his current behavior.

Eli, on the other hand, already has demonstrated much goodness in his heart. I hope being around Rush doesn't damage it.

garhkal
November 24th, 2009, 03:33 PM
Which makes me wonder if there is some way for them to ascned, would rush or eli be first?

Blackhole
November 25th, 2009, 08:31 PM
And yet, Eli is the one who put his arm into an active Stargate to (hopefully) override the ship's timelimit. I can't say this enough. He stuck his arm into a Stargate! Due to his direct actions, Scott and Greer made it back with enough lime to allow everyone on the ship to continue breathing.

When has Rush ever done something that selfless?

Sticking his arm into the event horizon was not only selfless but extremely courageous.

He also saved everyone’s life on the shuttle by rapidly performing extremely complex course calculations that allowed it to catch up with the Destiny.

I think Eli is not just brilliant but a genius. You notice that he is the only person Rush seems to respect. Rush is brilliant and arrogant. He looks down on anyone he doesn’t see as an intellectual equal. Eli is young and hasn’t had much formal schooling but his intellectual capacity is huge. He is a genius with self-esteem issues. Once he gains confidence in his own abilities I think we will see his intellectual contributions increase.

Being stranded on the Destiny has provided Eli with a sense of purpose and meaning that has been sorely lacking for most of his life. He is probably the only person besides Rush who is not unhappy to be there.

StarFighter
November 26th, 2009, 07:09 AM
They are putting their faith in Eli because they have to. Rush is the obvious expert on the ship but they don't trust him. Eli has already proven himself to be better than the other scientists on the ship. Eli is creative and a good problem solver. They want to develop Eli's skills as quickly as they can so they have someone other than Rush to count on.

Blackhole
November 26th, 2009, 10:07 AM
I wonder if Eli ever signed that Military Non-Disclosure Agreement? He was beamed up to the Hammond without his consent before doing so, essentially kidnapped. If he refused to later sign it, I would think the military would have no legal hold over him at all. He wouldn’t be subject to their authority or bound to secrecy about anything he has seen. I realize the point is moot as long as he is on the Destiny. I bring it up to because Eli is fast becoming one of the key players on the Destiny. Down the road he would be immune to any legal pressure the military may threaten him with to try to force his cooperation with an imposed agenda he doesn't support.

CaramelMonkey
November 26th, 2009, 10:12 AM
Because he solveded the problem on teh computer game.

wargrafix
November 26th, 2009, 10:43 AM
the boy got skills and he doesn't bend under pressure.

Captain Obvious
November 30th, 2009, 10:25 AM
Rush's entire philosophy is that other people are just a means for his own ends. It's a great inconsistency (some would say hypocrisy) in his logic that he's unwilling to undertake the very risks he deems necessary for the "greater good."

I challenge this assertion! It is not that Rush is unwilling to take risks with his own life, but that many times it is more advantageous to the crew to have someone else do something. Examples-

In Air pt 3 when Rush tells Eli to stick his arm in the event horizon, it makes far more sense than doing it himself. If Eli didn't make it back to the ship, he was as good as dead anyways, whereas if the gate closed and severed Rush's arm, the crew would have to waste medical supplies on someone already on board as opposed to someone who was going to die anyways losing an arm stranded on a desert planet. Makes far more sense for the greater good of the ship and crew.

In Water we have Rush showing his true nature, carefully balancing the needs of the many against the needs of the few or the one. He showed that in his mind, no one person is above being sacrificed to the greater good. He also showed a sensitivity to the paranoia of the average crewmen, knowing it was best to hide an alien incursion from most of the crew.

In Time we see Rush throwing himself into an open event horizon not knowing where it will send him. it could be destiny 100 years ago, it could be the planet a million years ago, either way, he is selflessly throwing his life away on the remote chance it could help the crew.

In Life we have Rush staring down the Ancient chair, knowing that for the greater good SOMEONE has to go into the chair. Knowing his character, and his thirst for ancient knowledge, he is more than willing to do it, but he knows that if something goes wrong, there is no one that can do everything he does for the destiny crew (or save his life should it come to that). So his desire to plop down in the chair is overridden by his desire to "think of the greater good". You can see the pain/anguish in his eyes when told to go sit in the chair by Young. Young takes it as Rush being willing to sacrifice someone else instead of him being unwilling to sacrifice the future of everyone else for a selfish desire to sit in the chair. Rush wants to sit in the chair more than anything in the world. But he knows if he does, he could be dooming everyone else to die.

From this I ascertain that, in fact, Rush is purely driven by the overall survival needs of the crew. He knows what everyone is capable of and knows what/who the ship needs to survive in the long run.

The reason everyone "trusts" Eli is because of the random anti-rush paranoia. Everyone is so quick to throw around blame they don't realize Rush is blindly doing what is best for the group overall.

garhkal
November 30th, 2009, 04:09 PM
A little titbit. Eli was already on the Destiny when rush asked him to stick his hand in the Event horizon.

PG15
November 30th, 2009, 08:26 PM
Uh...no he wasn't.

the fifth man
November 30th, 2009, 08:51 PM
Uh...no he wasn't.

Yeah, Rush was the one on Destiny. Eli was still on the desert planet.

Captain Obvious
November 30th, 2009, 10:48 PM
A little titbit. Eli was already on the Destiny when rush asked him to stick his hand in the Event horizon.

Hmm.....Methinks you should travel to hulu.com and rewatch Air Part 3.

natyanayaki
November 30th, 2009, 11:05 PM
Hmm.....Methinks you should travel to hulu.com and rewatch Air Part 3.

Too bad it's no longer on Hulu.com...:(