PDA

View Full Version : This week's LRC stones discussion



DigiFluid
November 20th, 2009, 10:02 PM
We seem to be having one every week so I thought I'd open up this week's edition.

So now the stones are leaving residual memories from the host in the visitor's subconscious. That's very interesting. Do we suppose that's a natural outcome of using the stones, or an unintended result of Earth scientists modifying them? Perhaps even more interestingly--if this is a cumulative problem, will the LRC stones be 'decommissioned'?

jelgate
November 20th, 2009, 10:05 PM
I think its a side effect of overuse. The safeguards of separtaing consciousness is starting to detoriate

MattSilver 3k
November 20th, 2009, 10:13 PM
I'm curious as to see what's next with these stones. There's a slow build-up going on, and I would hope that this build-up leads to something really bad happening with those stones - the technology itself and the people maybe abusing it - that leads to them being stored somewhere cold and dark.

Pharaoh Atem
November 20th, 2009, 10:20 PM
i loved ow young used to the stones to get to teleford at the end

PG15
November 20th, 2009, 10:38 PM
You know, I'd love to see Telford ending up insane because he can't differentiate between what's his memory and what's everyone else's.

Not because I hate him or anything; it'd just be a fascinating and terrifying concept to depict.

garhkal
November 20th, 2009, 10:57 PM
We seem to be having one every week so I thought I'd open up this week's edition.

So now the stones are leaving residual memories from the host in the visitor's subconscious. That's very interesting. Do we suppose that's a natural outcome of using the stones, or an unintended result of Earth scientists modifying them? Perhaps even more interestingly--if this is a cumulative problem, will the LRC stones be 'decommissioned'?

It was making me wonder why Scott was the only one who got those 'residual memories'. maybe he has the ATA gene and that is why>


I think its a side effect of overuse.

In which case Young is the one more likely to get it sine he has used them more than anyone else on the ship.

Pharaoh Atem
November 20th, 2009, 11:01 PM
You know, I'd love to see Telford ending up insane because he can't differentiate between what's his memory and what's everyone else's.

Not because I hate him or anything; it'd just be a fascinating and terrifying concept to depict.

and lou's a good enough acter to pull it off

Sifr
November 20th, 2009, 11:10 PM
and lou's a good enough acter to pull it off

Definitely agreed, I'd love to see him start to forget who he is because he's getting too many residual memories in his head and really start to fracture his psyche.

I think the stones are being overused and too much strain put on them. The distance is greater than we've ever seen used before, over several galaxies.

It also makes me wonder, if the stones are somehow working in conjunction with "where" the user wants them to go, because there is no guarantee that they should always go to Earth?

Why don't we ever see any ex-Ori followers from the Ori Galaxy accidentally connect with them, since they had stones? Or from other Ancient worlds in the Milky Way or Pegasus?

Of course that'd bring far too much continuity into the equation, but still, the stones shouldn't ALL go to Earth?

On another note... doesn't one need the ATA gene to use a stone? In Citizen Joe it was activated that way, as Carter clearly explained? Unless thats now been retconned? Or its only needs to be activated, then it can be used by anyone...?

Jeff O'Connor
November 20th, 2009, 11:13 PM
If the stones start becoming an enemy in and of themselves due to increasing problems with them, I'll probably take back my opinion on them and praise the writers. That's rather ingenious.

coZma
November 20th, 2009, 11:18 PM
I think its a side effect of overuse.

maybe we just reverse engineered them wrong

ZoSo
November 21st, 2009, 12:52 AM
Definitely agreed, I'd love to see him start to forget who he is because he's getting too many residual memories in his head and really start to fracture his psyche.

I think the stones are being overused and too much strain put on them. The distance is greater than we've ever seen used before, over several galaxies.

It also makes me wonder, if the stones are somehow working in conjunction with "where" the user wants them to go, because there is no guarantee that they should always go to Earth?

Why don't we ever see any ex-Ori followers from the Ori Galaxy accidentally connect with them, since they had stones? Or from other Ancient worlds in the Milky Way or Pegasus?

Of course that'd bring far too much continuity into the equation, but still, the stones shouldn't ALL go to Earth?

On another note... doesn't one need the ATA gene to use a stone? In Citizen Joe it was activated that way, as Carter clearly explained? Unless thats now been retconned? Or its only needs to be activated, then it can be used by anyone...?

Apparently they backwards-engineered the device that the stones use to transmit across intergalactic distances and made their own devices with their own settings and protocols. That pad that they put them on does look pretty Earth-made (unless I'm missing an episode somewhere?). And they are either also using the stones like a radio or they are sending people to Earth to let them know who's coming because so far they've been expecting certain people and have had the right gender waiting.

thekillman
November 21st, 2009, 06:11 AM
well the idea of consciousness transferral is crazy, but hey, if it's possible, then it's also possible to accidently mix a bit of consciousness. like how Scott got some of Telford's memory

Killfetzer
November 21st, 2009, 06:23 AM
i loved ow young used to the stones to get to teleford at the end

And I predicted this (that someone uses the stones to impersonate somebody)! :)

I like the flashbacks. My theory is that Telford is establishing some sort of permanent connection with the Destiny crew without the stones because he is clearly the one who used them most often.
To explain my theory: I think that the stones somehow change the quantuum state of the effected mind to represent the quantuum state of the mind that you want to switch to. Due to overuse Telford's mind isn't able to change back to his own mind completly, so he has a weak form of connection to the person he last changed with.

Kaeb
November 21st, 2009, 07:54 AM
I seriously think whatever alien we encounter at the end of the season, they will recognize the significance of the stones and then destroy them.

eonflux
November 21st, 2009, 08:37 AM
well the idea of consciousness transferral is crazy, but hey, if it's possible, then it's also possible to accidently mix a bit of consciousness. like how Scott got some of Telford's memory

This event would stop me from using them. The effect that people get sniplets of other people memories. Anyways the stones freak me out. I can handle a lot of things but not that.

garhkal
November 21st, 2009, 11:18 AM
maybe we just reverse engineered them wrong

I can see that. Perhaps that ancient terminal had some fail safe in it to prevent that from occurring, so our tinkering and making our own one forgot to put that in.

creed462
November 21st, 2009, 11:24 AM
well the stones did transfered memories between Jack and Joe so we might be seeing it still doing that

Pharaoh Atem
November 21st, 2009, 11:27 AM
well the stones did transfered memories between Jack and Joe so we might be seeing it still doing that

quite true

leanbarton
November 21st, 2009, 11:32 AM
Aren't they becoming quite the distraction for the crew? Their minds get wrapped up in earthly problems and then they're "off their game" while on the ship. It could become dangerous.

TwoLL's
November 21st, 2009, 12:54 PM
And just to throw another wrench in the stones situation, we had another one of those, "Why aren't they using them to bring experts aboard?" plot hole this week. People have come up with some excuses as to why Carter or McKay can't make it there, and being they are unique individuals, the fact that they may be off doing something else important makes some kind of sense.

But when it comes to a requirement for something far less significant than a resident super-genious, like for instance psych exams for the crew, are they really so hard up that Young has to rely on somebody with no more than a first-year psychology course as their qualifications? Like the SGC doesn't have a single base psychologist available?

You get the feeling they wrote some of these scripts when the ship was suppose to be really cut-off and forgot to modify them now that they don't make a lick of sense anymore.

Alder
November 21st, 2009, 02:14 PM
But when it comes to a requirement for something far less significant than a resident super-genious, like for instance psych exams for the crew, are they really so hard up that Young has to rely on somebody with no more than a first-year psychology course as their qualifications? Like the SGC doesn't have a single base psychologist available?
That occurred to me, you'd think they could have a qualified psychologist drop by a couple of times a week...
TJ could use the time on Earth to get more medical training so that she's better prepared for the emergencies that we hope will come. :D

erotavlas
November 21st, 2009, 02:18 PM
And just to throw another wrench in the stones situation, we had another one of those, "Why aren't they using them to bring experts aboard?" plot hole this week. People have come up with some excuses as to why Carter or McKay can't make it there, and being they are unique individuals, the fact that they may be off doing something else important makes some kind of sense.

But when it comes to a requirement for something far less significant than a resident super-genious, like for instance psych exams for the crew, are they really so hard up that Young has to rely on somebody with no more than a first-year psychology course as their qualifications? Like the SGC doesn't have a single base psychologist available?

You get the feeling they wrote some of these scripts when the ship was suppose to be really cut-off and forgot to modify them now that they don't make a lick of sense anymore.

the SGC can't just swoop in everytime they need something. maybe it can be done if they needed something like a psychologist , but what happens when the psychologist leaves? s/he takes all the experience and rapport back to earth and leaves nothing (except maybe paper notes) behind.


TJ could use the time on Earth to get more medical training so that she's better prepared for the emergencies that we hope will come

yes that would be a good idea...have the crew get short training sessions to develop skills they need (like TJ and a psych course)

Iffy
November 21st, 2009, 04:18 PM
And just to throw another wrench in the stones situation, we had another one of those, "Why aren't they using them to bring experts aboard?" plot hole this week. People have come up with some excuses as to why Carter or McKay can't make it there, and being they are unique individuals, the fact that they may be off doing something else important makes some kind of sense.

But when it comes to a requirement for something far less significant than a resident super-genious, like for instance psych exams for the crew, are they really so hard up that Young has to rely on somebody with no more than a first-year psychology course as their qualifications? Like the SGC doesn't have a single base psychologist available?

You get the feeling they wrote some of these scripts when the ship was suppose to be really cut-off and forgot to modify them now that they don't make a lick of sense anymore.


I think Young has some trust issues, it comes done to he trusts her. That's my theory at least.

Arga
November 21st, 2009, 04:42 PM
I really can't accept the fact that people who had absolutely no idea that there is a Stargate program (and therefore alien technology like the Stones at our disposal) just stay cool and don't freak out or laugh, and actually believe what the officer explained for 5 minutes, prior to the visit of the person is someone else's body, and just act as if it was normal... "oh you swapped bodies? really? that's swell! it's incredible what technology can do today! wonderful! Come, let's have a drink"...
That's completely un realistic. This is what I can't stand in SGU. I have a hard time believing those civilians' cool reaction when faced for the first time with something so uncredible as "one mind transfered into another body". Very stupid.

PG15
November 21st, 2009, 04:49 PM
I'm pretty sure those civilians are made known of all this stuff before the Destiny people shows up to visit.

Arga
November 21st, 2009, 05:27 PM
I'm pretty sure those civilians are made known of all this stuff before the Destiny people shows up to visit.

yes, we see an officer at their house, while the swapper is waiting in the car.
He must explain the situation in 5 minutes, then make them sign a paper, and here we go. They just have no problem believing what is extreme science fiction for the common people.
I don't buy it.

Eternal Density
November 21st, 2009, 05:45 PM
well the stones did transfered memories between Jack and Joe so we might be seeing it still doing thatYep. I'm of the opinion that this is nothing new.

Saquist
November 21st, 2009, 05:49 PM
I think its a side effect of overuse. The safeguards of separtaing consciousness is starting to detoriate


I'll go with that one sir.

RobertF
November 21st, 2009, 07:05 PM
So now that it's established Telford and Young hate each other's guts, I'm curious if Telford will be pulled off of the LRC detail. After all, no telling what Telford and Young would do to each other's bodies while exchanged.

I see potential for more plot twists using the LRC stones. Just a few possibilities:

1) Crewmembers on the Destiny getting so fed up with life shipboard that they exchange bodies with someone on Earth and then go AWOL, stranding some poor airman on the Destiny in a stranger's body.

2) Or ... one of the more unscrupulous crewmembers on Destiny who is mortally injured on a mission, or suffering from a fatal illness, decides to switch bodies with a healthy person back on Earth and go AWOL.

3) As the Destiny crew gets more strung out, someone screws up the LRC exchange program queue, and people end up switching back to the wrong bodies. Person A switches with Person B, and then switches back to Person C instead of B. Humorous situations could develop (for example, men swapping bodies with women - Eli and Chloe comes to mind...).

4) How about exchanging bodies with an animal, or is that not possible? I can see Telford, out of spite, hooking up a worm to the LRC device when he knows it's Young's turn.

garhkal
November 21st, 2009, 11:06 PM
yes, we see an officer at their house, while the swapper is waiting in the car.
He must explain the situation in 5 minutes, then make them sign a paper, and here we go. They just have no problem believing what is extreme science fiction for the common people.
I don't buy it.

While i could see some, i cannot see all. Especially the quickness they have shown the others adapting to it.


1) Crewmembers on the Destiny getting so fed up with life shipboard that they exchange bodies with someone on Earth and then go AWOL, stranding some poor airman on the Destiny in a stranger's body.

That would create one humdinger of a problem. Though by now i think all members have had Subcutaneous transmitters installed so they can easily be located.

Killfetzer
November 22nd, 2009, 02:40 PM
1) Crewmembers on the Destiny getting so fed up with life shipboard that they exchange bodies with someone on Earth and then go AWOL, stranding some poor airman on the Destiny in a stranger's body.

As far as we know the communication can be disrupted from both sides. So the poor airman just takes the stone from the Destiny device and switches back.



2) Or ... one of the more unscrupulous crewmembers on Destiny who is mortally injured on a mission, or suffering from a fatal illness, decides to switch bodies with a healthy person back on Earth and go AWOL.

As established in Earth: When a person dies both participants of the communication die. A body cannot survive without a mind and a mind cannot survive without a body.


3) As the Destiny crew gets more strung out, someone screws up the LRC exchange program queue, and people end up switching back to the wrong bodies. Person A switches with Person B, and then switches back to Person C instead of B. Humorous situations could develop (for example, men swapping bodies with women - Eli and Chloe comes to mind...).

Could be a nice one ;)


4) How about exchanging bodies with an animal, or is that not possible? I can see Telford, out of spite, hooking up a worm to the LRC device when he knows it's Young's turn.

Or Telford switches into one of the sandflies :D

prion
November 22nd, 2009, 03:40 PM
As established in Earth: When a person dies both participants of the communication die. A body cannot survive without a mind and a mind cannot survive without a body.
:D

A body can. If the mind goes, the body is comatose. People don't "think" how to breathe, so, well, if someone died, hope he/she signed organ donor card...

Griele
November 22nd, 2009, 08:14 PM
Hey everyone, I'm new here, but have been posting on the SG:Worlds site till recently. I started a thread over there about the stones never going cross gender, I haven't had the opportunity to read through all the posts here on the stones, but has someone brought that up yet? <snip, the topic is the communication stones, not other fans>

Griele
November 22nd, 2009, 09:36 PM
If someone were to go AWOL, once discovered, the SGC would simply have to turn the device off and everyone is back to where they belong, though I'm sure there would be disciplinary actions against the offender.

PG15
November 22nd, 2009, 10:02 PM
The question has been posed towards one of the producers (Joe Mallozzi), and he seems to indicate that the gender of the "arrivals" would be told to the Earth people beforehand to avoid genderbending, as it were.

Eternal Density
November 23rd, 2009, 02:03 AM
BTW, you don't "swap back", you just return to normal when the connection ends. So you can't swap back into the wrong body.

Killfetzer
November 23rd, 2009, 02:38 AM
BTW, you don't "swap back", you just return to normal when the connection ends. So you can't swap back into the wrong body.

And Stargates can't tunnel through suns to deposit an exotict heavy element which let the star go nova...

The Ancient version most likely had such a saftey protocol to prevent a "critical failure". The Earth version won't have this saftey if the writers ever need such a body swapping ;)

Phenom
November 23rd, 2009, 03:32 AM
yes, we see an officer at their house, while the swapper is waiting in the car.
He must explain the situation in 5 minutes, then make them sign a paper, and here we go. They just have no problem believing what is extreme science fiction for the common people.
I don't buy it.

I am pretty sure if my partner was a high ranking army dude on secret missions for months on end, then one day another high ranking army dude came over and told me that he had body swapped, that I would believe it.

The loved ones perhaps are not so closed minded to believe they know everything about everything.

Arga
November 23rd, 2009, 04:40 AM
I am pretty sure if my partner was a high ranking army dude on secret missions for months on end, then one day another high ranking army dude came over and told me that he had body swapped, that I would believe it.

The loved ones perhaps are not so closed minded to believe they know everything about everything.

Perhaps.. they're really in an emotional state that make them think with their heart rather than their brain.. But I continue to find it strange how fast they accept the situation without saying "what kind of bullshxxx you're telling me?".
I like how they handled Eli's mother; that was realistic; Eli knew she wouldn't believe/understand so easily. But I'd like to see a case where the "loved one" doesn't believe any word of it and shout " it's all lies, that's crazy, stop lying to me and tell me what really happened to X, and stop taking me for a fool; soon you'll tell me that little green men exist, and that you can beam me up to your spaceship! I'm not that gullable"!
I used to like in SG1 when they revealed the truth to someone, especially Carter's dad. I believed it more. I didn't ask myself so many questions.

creed462
November 23rd, 2009, 01:18 PM
Hey everyone, I'm new here, but have been posting on the SG:Worlds site till recently. I started a thread over there about the stones never going cross gender, I haven't had the opportunity to read through all the posts here on the stones, but has someone brought that up yet? <snip, the topic is the communication stones, not other fans>

Vala took over Daniel's body in an episode of Sg1 to warn them the Ori were coming so it's possible for gender switch.

godcity
November 23rd, 2009, 02:13 PM
I want to know who Telford called to get Young disconnected? Telford, as far as we know, isn't in charge of anything. So how does he have the authority to just "make a call" and get someone disconnected just because he doesn't like what's happening?

garhkal
November 23rd, 2009, 04:18 PM
The question has been posed towards one of the producers (Joe Mallozzi), and he seems to indicate that the gender of the "arrivals" would be told to the Earth people beforehand to avoid genderbending, as it were.
I would like to know how??

Eternal Density
November 23rd, 2009, 05:48 PM
And Stargates can't tunnel through suns to deposit an exotict heavy element which let the star go nova...

The Ancient version most likely had such a saftey protocol to prevent a "critical failure". The Earth version won't have this saftey if the writers ever need such a body swapping ;)No, I'm saying that the method the stones use - making a connection and then breaking the connection - precludes the possibility of 'going back to the wrong body'. Just like taking the key out of my car's ignition won't make it go into reverse gear.

PG15
November 23rd, 2009, 08:08 PM
I would like to know how??

Someone uses the stones to tell Earth.

So yeah, there could be some genderbending in that first instance, but that's just a way to get across a message. After telling Earth, they'll assemble the right gendered people for the actual session.

This is all speculation, of course.

Phenom
November 24th, 2009, 12:49 AM
Gender bending hey... Why does my mind race immediately to the gutter.

Stupid brain. Do something useful for once.

Arga
November 24th, 2009, 06:07 AM
Since the begining, I thought of the Stones as the Stargate version of Star Trek's Holodeck!

GateNut
November 24th, 2009, 06:19 PM
If i remember correctly Scott left his stone on top of the LRC device ? mabey this casues the flash back as he was still partialy connected. :(

Griele
November 24th, 2009, 07:00 PM
I would imagine that Col. Young has to report in an a daily/weekly basis to the SGC and that he would most likely be going off a rotation chart that the SGC or he had come up with as for who gets to use, for how long, and all the little details.

As for Telford making a call and getting the disconnect, it's the military, after the fiasco's they have been having, there is probably a guard in the room and he may have been friendly to Telford, or maybe Telford lied and said it was an emergency.

Taiko
November 24th, 2009, 08:25 PM
I would imagine that Col. Young has to report in an a daily/weekly basis to the SGC and that he would most likely be going off a rotation chart that the SGC or he had come up with as for who gets to use, for how long, and all the little details.

As for Telford making a call and getting the disconnect, it's the military, after the fiasco's they have been having, there is probably a guard in the room and he may have been friendly to Telford, or maybe Telford lied and said it was an emergency.
It was an emergency, look at what happened the next time Col Young showed up in an Airman's body. What if Col Young decided to arm himself like Major Hasan did at Fort Hood?

gatefanjo-m
November 25th, 2009, 03:35 AM
I really can't accept the fact that people who had absolutely no idea that there is a Stargate program (and therefore alien technology like the Stones at our disposal) just stay cool and don't freak out or laugh, and actually believe what the officer explained for 5 minutes, prior to the visit of the person is someone else's body, and just act as if it was normal... "oh you swapped bodies? really? that's swell! it's incredible what technology can do today! wonderful! Come, let's have a drink"...


I got the impression that some people had prior knowledge of the Icarus Project, not in detail, but enough so that the idea of the Stones is not too alien (pardon the pun). This is just from when Wray is talking to Sharon about her parents not being 'cleared', it seemed like Sharon has known that for a while and was prepared with her argument to tell them Wray is 'OK'. Anyway, that was just the impression I got.

And I agree with GateNut about the stones being left on the LRC device. As soon as the camera focused on them being left, and then stayed on them for longer than normal, it seemed like something would happen. The residual memories seemed to be in real time. However, how did Scott see those particular memories when, according to Daniel Jackson in 'Citizen Joe', you have to be in a 'certain proximity' to the stones? The only way Scott would see those memories is if Telford was thinking about them again, whilst he was near the stones, the way that Joe saw O'Neill's memories as he was writing his reports.
Or it could just be a plot device to get Young confrontational.

Looking forward to seeing the stones continuing to go wrong though.....it'll take out that dependable element.

natyanayaki
November 29th, 2009, 01:51 PM
the SGC can't just swoop in everytime they need something. maybe it can be done if they needed something like a psychologist , but what happens when the psychologist leaves? s/he takes all the experience and rapport back to earth and leaves nothing (except maybe paper notes) behind.

Which isn't why the psychologist shouldn't be brought IN. When a Destiny crew member goes to Earth, they should have to stop by the psychologist/psychiatrists office on the way out. The crew member would probably be less awkward sharing their feeling with someone who wasn't one of the 80 people their stuck aboard the ship with.


I really can't accept the fact that people who had absolutely no idea that there is a Stargate program (and therefore alien technology like the Stones at our disposal) just stay cool and don't freak out or laugh, and actually believe what the officer explained for 5 minutes, prior to the visit of the person is someone else's body, and just act as if it was normal... "oh you swapped bodies? really? that's swell! it's incredible what technology can do today! wonderful! Come, let's have a drink"...
That's completely un realistic. This is what I can't stand in SGU. I have a hard time believing those civilians' cool reaction when faced for the first time with something so uncredible as "one mind transfered into another body". Very stupid.

But do we know for sure that the cleared people don't know about the Stargate program already? Eli's mom didn't, and Eli didn't tell her about it. I'd assume there may be a special clause for spouses and spousal equivilants?


2) Or ... one of the more unscrupulous crewmembers on Destiny who is mortally injured on a mission, or suffering from a fatal illness, decides to switch bodies with a healthy person back on Earth and go AWOL.

I think they established that if their original body dies, their consciousness dies along with it. It's why Telford and the scientists said they left, if they had stayed, Telford and the scientists' would have died, along with Young, Eli and whiny-Chloe.

Phenomenological
November 30th, 2009, 02:33 PM
I'm not sure how the idea of residual memories would work apart from the aforementioned leaving of the stones on the communication platform. Everyone seems to assume that your conciousness is transferred to someone elses body, whereas it's much more likely that the ancients went with the much much safer and simpler route of just exchanging nerve signals.

The devices simply intercept signals being sent to and from the brain, then beam information about those to the other unit, and vice versa. The conciousness stays EXACTLY where it is, it's just a few electrical pulses being redirected. Otherwise there would be side effects galore as the size and layout of peoples brains is pretty thoroughly unique, it would be impossibly complicated to actually transfer a conciousness. Hence 'body swapping' should not be possible.

That raises the question why would both people die if one body dies. One should survive, unless the death of one body triggers some form of overload in the device. Which seems careless for such a complicated piece of ancient technology. I call plot hole.

natyanayaki
November 30th, 2009, 03:09 PM
One should survive, unless the death of one body triggers some form of overload in the device. Which seems careless for such a complicated piece of ancient technology. I call plot hole.

It could be that the person whose body dies, dies because the actual brain dies, therefore signals can no longer be transmitted, and the person whose body is technically away from the dangerous area would die because the brain would think they are in the disaster zone, and essentially are brain dead, because the brain thinks the person is dead. There could be ways to revive someone from this brain death, but that humans at this point don't have the technology to do so.

But it probably is a plot-hole...:)

Paradoxum
December 2nd, 2009, 10:05 AM
I think these thoughts about why aren't they using the stones to bring people with skills on board and such are going to become a pretty big plot hole.. the stones are going to have to be destroyed pretty soon I think, or some problem occurs so they can't use them *as much* anymore. maybe this residual memory thing is a build-up to a problem which will stop them using them unless in case of emergencies or something. it's kind of like the zat 3 times to dissapear something.. they'll regret it later ;p

Lord Hurin
December 2nd, 2009, 06:02 PM
You know, I'd love to see Telford ending up insane because he can't differentiate between what's his memory and what's everyone else's.

Yeah, who remembers Joe from that SG-1 episode? The same thing happened with him!

jeffsupersaiyan
December 2nd, 2009, 09:58 PM
could the person whose body is being used have sex with another person and is the sexual context considered rape since they are getting unwanted images ? how will that str8 woman feel that the lesbian woman misused her body or the str8 guys body being misused ?

Phenomenological
December 2nd, 2009, 10:40 PM
I think lots of people agree what they do in the other persons body is immoral half the time. I'm not sure about the issue you've raised there...But it did make me think of another, related issue. What are the odds of someone manic like Spencer raping someone on the ship?

escyos
December 2nd, 2009, 10:51 PM
i think the people who let their bodies get taken over allow there bodies to be used without discretion, meaning they allow there bodies to be used and are not or do not want to be told what happens

Tanie
December 2nd, 2009, 11:21 PM
i think the people who let their bodies get taken over allow there bodies to be used without discretion, meaning they allow there bodies to be used and are not or do not want to be told what happens

Couldn't agree with you more. I think if you've volunteered to body-swap, you are allowing your body to be used in whatever way the other person wants.

KEK
December 3rd, 2009, 12:40 AM
could the person whose body is being used have sex with another person and is the sexual context considered rape since they are getting unwanted images ? how will that str8 woman feel that the lesbian woman misused her body or the str8 guys body being misused ?

Just say straight, it's really not that hard.

Arctic Goddess
December 3rd, 2009, 12:43 AM
i think the people who let their bodies get taken over allow there bodies to be used without discretion, meaning they allow there bodies to be used and are not or do not want to be told what happens

But what if by allowing that they contract an STD?

Arwis
December 3rd, 2009, 12:52 AM
i think the people who let their bodies get taken over allow there bodies to be used without discretion, meaning they allow there bodies to be used and are not or do not want to be told what happens

I think not because Telford was really surprised at the moment they jumped out of FTL.

Captain Obvious
December 3rd, 2009, 12:57 AM
I think not because Telford was really surprised at the moment they jumped out of FTL.

The only issue with the Telford incident was that Young was being relieved of Duty for Telford AND Telford was following a course of action that might very well get the man killed. Kind of hard to tell the guy to not make some sweet lovin to his wife when you are the one Hijacking his body and threatening his life and lives of those he commands.

I know its a " 2 wrongs don't make a right" but 4 lefts sure as hell do!

KEK
December 3rd, 2009, 12:59 AM
I think not because Telford was really surprised at the moment they jumped out of FTL.

I think you're be surprised whether you agreed to it or not, one minute being stood up talking to Scott and the next minute plowing someone else's wife would disorientate anyone.

Arwis
December 3rd, 2009, 01:11 AM
I think you're be surprised whether you agreed to it or not, one minute being stood up talking to Scott and the next minute plowing someone else's wife would disorientate anyone.

So much that later he would go to his wife personally? I don't think so :)

Another issue I find when using those stones that they are giving NDA for everyone! Even though Stargate program expanded a lot but full secrecy is still here! Sam wasn't allowed to tell her father about Stargate program, and he was high rank military officer.... And if you look now, they just telling that to everyone...

Mongoletsi
December 3rd, 2009, 01:13 AM
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=71597&highlight=stones
http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=71095&highlight=stones

fksake...

KEK
December 3rd, 2009, 01:21 AM
So much that later he would go to his wife personally? I don't think so :)

Another issue I find when using those stones that they are giving NDA for everyone! Even though Stargate program expanded a lot but full secrecy is still here! Sam wasn't allowed to tell her father about Stargate program, and he was high rank military officer.... And if you look now, they just telling that to everyone...

Um, what has that got to do with anything? He went there to screw Young over, it was revenge, but not because he used his body to have sex with his wife, he hated Young already.

Avenger
December 3rd, 2009, 01:42 AM
Here's something a lot of people aren't bothering to consider in this whole thing. What if the people back on Earth give consent for the people who come back to do what ever they want? If they are consenting to let that person do anything (short of illegal activities or something like that), there is no issue at all.

MattSilver 3k
December 3rd, 2009, 01:45 AM
Here's something a lot of people aren't bothering to consider in this whole thing. What if the people back on Earth give consent for the people who come back to do what ever they want? If they are consenting to let that person do anything (short of illegal activities or something like that), there is no issue at all.

That's how I saw it.

And as for the issue of STD's - come on, they have protection against this stuff. I'm sure Young was gracious enough to protect himself while in Telford's body.

Commander Zelix
December 3rd, 2009, 01:58 AM
Not just the sex, but even getting drunk or getting into a fight with another person body. Its strange the show haven't tackle this subject already as its about the only real sci-fi aspects relating to the stones use. Otherwise they are only a plot device to generate soap opera drama on earth.

Worse they don't even deal with the stones in a soap opera way: "I'm sorry Wray but I can't sleep with you looking like this". "It's me, you know its me, I love you" "I'm sorry, I can't do it, its like cheating. Its ok to talk, but I'll sleep on the couch tonight""ok baby ok, *I* will sleep on the couch, *I'm* the visitor here. Its so great to be with you".

Now they serve the dumb viewers with stones switchee that looks exactly like their Destiny counterpart, while people actually see another person.

MattSilver 3k
December 3rd, 2009, 02:10 AM
Not just the sex, but even getting drunk or getting into a fight with another person body. Its strange the show haven't tackle this subject already as its about the only real sci-fi aspects relating to the stones use. Otherwise they are only a plot device to generate soap opera drama on earth.

Worse they don't even deal with the stones in a soap opera way: "I'm sorry Wray but I can't sleep with you looking like this". "It's me, you know its me, I love you" "I'm sorry, I can't do it, its like cheating. Its ok to talk, but I'll sleep on the couch tonight""ok baby ok, *I* will sleep on the couch, *I'm* the visitor here. Its so great to be with you".

Now they serve the dumb viewers with stones switchee that looks exactly like their Destiny counterpart, while people actually see another person.

I think the stones' use and problems with it is a slow burn thus far. First off, we get Telford's shocked reaction to switching to find himself mid-whammy with Young's wife. We see residual memories of Telford's hitting Scott, who looked kinda freaked out. Camille mentions to Sharon that everything's (Except the one) different in that body - in what you may call a soap opera way.

As for that last point, it wouldn't do much good to have an emotional scene in somebody else's body... and show that person's reaction (Maybe a complete stranger, to boot) and not the character we know and their reaction. Scott finding out he had a son would've just been weird if it was some other guy.

And that last point is kind of subverted at the end of Life, isn't it? Telford and the viewers first see a random airman beating the **** out of Telford, then it's revealed to be Young - again, knowing its him doesn't make for catering for less smarter viewers, but it was an obvious move to leave no mystery and tie up how Young deals with Telford in the end.

natyanayaki
December 3rd, 2009, 02:16 AM
Rape is any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person; therefore I do think so. Now, if someone craves a conjugal visit back on Earth, I think they should have to get written permission from whomsoever is donating their body. I highly doubt that sex is part of the bargain, the deals for using the stones, I would assume that they probably hadn't thought that up yet regarding the rules.

And whether Telford's actions align with what one might think is rape, doesn't matter. His body was used for sex without his prior knowledge. I don't know if the writers will touch upon this issue, but I'm thinking and hoping they will. Spoilers for that episode: In that episode, after they switch bodies, Eli says something like, "I wonder what they're doing with out bodies" and the camera pans toward Young so of course I don't know if they will use it, but I assume they will. Sexual violation is very serious, and I assume if there isn't proper protocol for this situation yet, we may see it develop over the course of the season/series.

Mongoletsi
December 3rd, 2009, 02:18 AM
Here's something a lot of people aren't bothering to consider in this whole thing. What if the people back on Earth give consent for the people who come back to do what ever they want?
It's been considered in the myriad of other threads on this same subject :D

Lord Hurin
December 3rd, 2009, 05:23 AM
I think not because Telford was really surprised at the moment they jumped out of FTL.

I thought he was surprised about the fact that the stones had cut out like that. Previously, no one knew that could happen since no other body swaps took place on a ship.

natyanayaki
December 3rd, 2009, 05:58 PM
I thought he was surprised about the fact that the stones had cut out like that. Previously, no one knew that could happen since no other body swaps took place on a ship.

I don't think he would have been as surprised if Young's wife wasn't on top of him. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think there will be consequences to that, why else would they have had it happen while Young was in bed with his wife...at least I hope it's more than the useless triangle of blandness and boredom...