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View Full Version : Best Defence is a good offence line



luckylad
November 19th, 2009, 09:35 AM
Ok i agree with the line, but when you know the size of your enemies force and their capabilities. But he decides to blow up one of their homes for no real gain apart from to piss them off.

i find that very reckless Is greer a little trigger happy? is that whats got him into trouble?

Lightning Ducj
November 19th, 2009, 10:43 AM
But he decides to blow up one of their homes for no real gain apart from to piss them off.


And to kill a whole bunch of them while they had the chance since they would be an immediate threat once night fell.

The Prophet
November 19th, 2009, 10:46 AM
They were going to attack them anyway once night fell, might as well lower the opposing numbers.

Nightfighter89
November 19th, 2009, 03:45 PM
His plan made perfect sense. HE was reasonably certain that they wouldn't come out during daytime, even having just been attacked, and so he could go around at his leisure killing them.

KEK
November 19th, 2009, 05:50 PM
Ok i agree with the line, but when you know the size of your enemies force and their capabilities. But he decides to blow up one of their homes for no real gain apart from to piss them off.

i find that very reckless Is greer a little trigger happy? is that whats got him into trouble?

They were in it at the time. I'd say reducing their number before they attack is pretty helpful.

Avenger
November 19th, 2009, 11:56 PM
If it had pissed them off, they would have attacked in the middle of the day. They didn't. With the gift of hindsight, we know it didn't matter in the end, but there was no way to know that at the time. He saw an opportunity to reduce the numbers of the things that were attacking them.

And Greer was on trouble for punching Telford.

Replicator Todd
November 20th, 2009, 12:13 AM
If only he had a Nuke.....

Phenom
November 20th, 2009, 01:35 AM
Piss them off?? They were quite simple creatures who lived on very simple needs. Sleep during the day. Eat and kill at night. They didn't eat and kill any more just because they were a little bit upset.

Avenger
November 20th, 2009, 02:51 AM
If only he had a Nuke.....

????

Flyboy
November 20th, 2009, 02:59 AM
Ok i agree with the line, but when you know the size of your enemies force and their capabilities. But he decides to blow up one of their homes for no real gain apart from to piss them off.

i find that very reckless Is greer a little trigger happy? is that whats got him into trouble?
Despite the fact that he was right in this circumstance and any argument against his actions is frankly silly, I thought I might wade in and comment about the actual principle.

In general strategic terms it is actually not true that the best defence is a good offence. The 'cult of the offensive' dominated strategic thought pre 1914 and that is what lead to the stagnant nature of World War One. The defensive is the stronger of the two elements and in Clausewitzian theory it takes a force three times the size of the defending force for an offence to be succesful. The defence is made so much stronger by familiar terrain, no requirement to advance, and logistical simplicity. Which was very much demonstrated when the previously succesful blitzkrieg was used against Russia in World War 2, and failed collossaly.

Just wanted to weigh in with that.

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 20th, 2009, 04:06 AM
Despite the fact that he was right in this circumstance and any argument against his actions is frankly silly, I thought I might wade in and comment about the actual principle.

In general strategic terms it is actually not true that the best defence is a good offence. The 'cult of the offensive' dominated strategic thought pre 1914 and that is what lead to the stagnant nature of World War One. The defensive is the stronger of the two elements and in Clausewitzian theory it takes a force three times the size of the defending force for an offence to be succesful. The defence is made so much strong by familiar terrain, no requirement to advance, and logistical simplicity. Which was very much demonstrated when the previously succesful blitzkrieg was used against Russia in World War 2, and failed collossaly.

Just wanted to weigh in with that.

Jeez FOB were talking about a line in a tv show where characters are hunting scary alien predators, its not a military history lesson! On the other hand we could debate this, it be fun to turn a discussion of one line in the show so highbrow. :p

Mongoletsi
November 20th, 2009, 06:01 AM
RAF Vs British Army, round one :D

p.s. I reckon Mr Bennett has added to the debate btw.

tNsRAoL
November 20th, 2009, 06:54 AM
Ok i agree with the line, but when you know the size of your enemies force and their capabilities. But he decides to blow up one of their homes for no real gain apart from to piss them off.

i find that very reckless Is greer a little trigger happy? is that whats got him into trouble?

"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he cannot win"

I don't think attacking them was the best course of action.

Mongoletsi
November 20th, 2009, 07:10 AM
"Only a fool fights a battle he knows he cannot win"
"Anything put in quotes gains added gravitas"


I don't think attacking them was the best course of action.
A pre-emptive strike, certain to be highly successful, against an enemy that will definitely attack you, is a bad idea? Explain please!

blackluster
November 20th, 2009, 10:39 AM
On the line itself, I thought it was hilarious. It was good to see Greer even considering that option and it was the best one really. To bad there were so many of those things. It would have been handy if a biologist was with them, someone who could help them determine why those creatures were attacking. It obviously wasn't for food, since they would simply bite/burrow into people and move on leaving the entire body. Figuring the creatures out in some limited time may have improved their odds.

Pharaoh Atem
November 20th, 2009, 12:37 PM
Ok i agree with the line, but when you know the size of your enemies force and their capabilities. But he decides to blow up one of their homes for no real gain apart from to piss them off.

i find that very reckless Is greer a little trigger happy? is that whats got him into trouble?

he;'s right it is the best way to win

The Prophet
November 20th, 2009, 01:47 PM
On the line itself, I thought it was hilarious. It was good to see Greer even considering that option and it was the best one really. To bad there were so many of those things. It would have been handy if a biologist was with them, someone who could help them determine why those creatures were attacking. It obviously wasn't for food, since they would simply bite/burrow into people and move on leaving the entire body. Figuring the creatures out in some limited time may have improved their odds.

Maybe they prefer decomposed flesh or are highly terratorial. Something which the team couldn't really use to fix their situation.

I don't really think they'd be anything a biologist would be able to figure out that would be helpful to their situation.

Oranos
November 21st, 2009, 06:01 PM
I don't really think they'd be anything a biologist would be able to figure out that would be helpful to their situation.

Exactly. It was pretty much kill or be killed.

Do I want to know why they happen to be nocturnal or why they're so territorial? No. I'm more interested in either setting up a defensible position or getting the gate to work. Either of which is more valuable.

Flyboy
November 22nd, 2009, 01:03 PM
Jeez FOB were talking about a line in a tv show where characters are hunting scary alien predators, its not a military history lesson! On the other hand we could debate this, it be fun to turn a discussion of one line in the show so highbrow. :p
yeah.....

But you know.... when I get bored I just find an excuse to discuss strategic theory, it's a terrible habit.

The Mighty 6 platoon
November 22nd, 2009, 02:51 PM
yeah.....

But you know.... when I get bored I just find an excuse to discuss strategic theory, it's a terrible habit.

I dunno there could be worse habits :p

blackluster
November 23rd, 2009, 07:42 AM
Exactly. It was pretty much kill or be killed.

Do I want to know why they happen to be nocturnal or why they're so territorial? No. I'm more interested in either setting up a defensible position or getting the gate to work. Either of which is more valuable.Well, I did say it may increase their odds. For instance, if the creatures' aggression was related to the human's proximity to their nests, their mission could be placed in a lot less jeopardy by simply setting up camp at night further away. To realize or theorize this, a scientist with some experience of insight into animal/insect behaviour may have been useful. Just a theory.

The Prophet
November 23rd, 2009, 09:58 AM
Well, I did say it may increase their odds. For instance, if the creatures' aggression was related to the human's proximity to their nests, their mission could be placed in a lot less jeopardy by simply setting up camp at night further away. To realize or theorize this, a scientist with some experience of insight into animal/insect behaviour may have been useful. Just a theory.

Well, they only had 36hrs before the Destiny jumped away, less seeing as they spent the day collecting food and such. How far would be far enough? It really wouldn't take a biologist to come to the conclusion "not being near the nests is a good idea".

I'm a little surprised that they didn't actually camp further away, but perhaps the nests were scattered throughout the jungle, and they wanted to be near the Gate incase they were able to dial back at some point.

Oranos
November 23rd, 2009, 12:16 PM
Well, I did say it may increase their odds. For instance, if the creatures' aggression was related to the human's proximity to their nests, their mission could be placed in a lot less jeopardy by simply setting up camp at night further away. To realize or theorize this, a scientist with some experience of insight into animal/insect behaviour may have been useful. Just a theory.

36 hours before the Destiny leaves, as The Prophet said...how far away do you really want to be? Furthermore--while Rush admits to having several theories--they don't know exactly why the gate isn't working. How far away do you really want to be if it suddenly started to work again?

In addition, the cave Greer found presents an excellent defensible position. Is that something you really want to pass up on in favor of open terrain? This based on a biologist's hunch (and not knowing where the creature's territory ends because you don't know where all the nests are).

A biologist may have some small insight--and their information sounds good in theory--but it doesn't necessarily increase the odds of survival. I'd sooner take another soldier than have another civilian that isn't capable of defending himself or herself.

Tanie
November 28th, 2009, 04:56 PM
I still love the line... always produces a smile in our household. :D

thekillman
November 29th, 2009, 07:16 AM
great line, and in this case, he was right. if that was the only hive, they wouldn't have died that night