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bungeeguy245
November 14th, 2009, 01:05 PM
To feel slightly relieved when we saw Chloe die, 1st or 2nd time?

She is my least favorite character since she is the character cause of all the "soap opera" crap going on with Eli and Scott. Not to mention the teenager-ish blowout she had in the nightclub. So far all this girl has done is bring more emotional baggage that is more annoying than it is character development or arc development, at least to me.

When I saw her die from the bug, I stopped for a moment and said to myself, "no...really...hopefully." But then I remembered it is still Stargate where anyone and anything can die but be reborn shortly thereafter. And then they teased us again with her in the infirmary.

And by the way, who actually buys into Eli's obsession with her so quickly? Kind of creepy and definitely has a bit of stalking to it with him always zooming in on her with the Kino.

SaberBlade
November 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM
I was happy when she died the first time, then disappointed when it was a recording. Happy again when she died "properly" but the moment the team on the planet learnt she died, I was disappointed again because I saw using time travel to save her coming from a mile away, even if the other team members hadn't been killed.

Darynlxm
November 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM
I personally didnt enjoy watching her die, but then again I have nothing against her character.

In responce to the question about Eli, I find it funny you dont see how this could develop so fast. Hes a loner with no real friends, living with his sick mom and is a drop out from... MIT? She was the first person to really give him attention, so he latched on. It happens all the time.

JeBuSBrian
November 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM
You were definitely not the only one. I cheered when I saw her die the first time. I was genuinely happy when she died 'for real' the second time, and mortified when it turned out to be a "To Be Continued" episode. I was just fine with everyone on the planet dying, except Lt James and Rush. I was disappointed when James died, then happy when it was all just rebooted.

It's too early in this show's run to have to hit the "time travel" reset button. Consequences are interesting, and I thought this show would have them. It's disappointing when it turns out they just hit the reset button like every other SG before it.

Cecil Brax
November 14th, 2009, 01:20 PM
And by the way, who actually buys into Eli's obsession with her so quickly? Kind of creepy and definitely has a bit of stalking to it with him always zooming in on her with the Kino.

Actually, that kind of stuff happens all the time. I see it at my job non-stop when we get an attractive young woman who is new to the job and guys make it a point to be friendly and nice, welcome her in, and quickly begin to trya nd get her to go out to lunch, etc etc. I'm not trying to make all guys sound shallow or anything, or even make Eli sound shallow, but its very common that this sort of thing happens and I've even seen it happen in reverse with a new young guy that the women find attractive and it all happens from the other direction.

Now, ramp that up by the fact there are after all only 70 people on the whole ship (Thereabouts, maybe not an exact number) and she's been being nice to him since pretty much day one. Coupled by the fact he's never really had any friends, probably not any girlfriends, and he can very quickly get an obsessive crush on her.

I don't think its unbelievable at all.

As for Chloe, I dislike the way her character is used quite a bit and when she died I knew it wasn't going to stick. Was I hoping it would stick? Yes, but mostly because it feels like quite alot of time is used on her but the character never really goes anywhere. That's not something we have seen in Stargate previously, and one element I really dislike about Heroes sometimes. Especially Season 2 who had a bunch of new characters come in, yet many of them were badly or underused and I wasn't sad to see the story continue without them.

After they were gone, things seemed to flow more smoothly. So far I think Chloe has gotten alot more negative reaction from people (based on these forums and people I talk to in real life) so I can only hope they either find some use for her character beyond her current role, or that the show move on without her. I hate to say it like that, as I would never wish someone to lose their job be it acting or anything, but a character can only stay underused for so long. I'm sure other people feel differently, this is just how I feel about Chloe (The character) so far. All the interviews I have seen from the actress she seems to be a really nice, intelligent, person who has a good personality.

- CB

Orion Antreas
November 14th, 2009, 01:22 PM
While I ain't a major fan of her, I was still sad to see her character die, especially the second time around when we heard Eli's unknowing farewell to her. It really was emotional.

Also, while I ain't a major fan of her right now, that could change as the show progresses. Anything is possible and from what I have read, she will begin to really develop and 'have a purpose' down the road.

Replicator Todd
November 14th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Honestly, Chloe is awesome and seeing her die brought me no relief. I could tell she wasn't really dead!

Cecil Brax
November 14th, 2009, 01:27 PM
You were definitely not the only one. I cheered when I saw her die the first time. I was genuinely happy when she died 'for real' the second time, and mortified when it turned out to be a "To Be Continued" episode. I was just fine with everyone on the planet dying, except Lt James and Rush. I was disappointed when James died, then happy when it was all just rebooted.

It's too early in this show's run to have to hit the "time travel" reset button. Consequences are interesting, and I thought this show would have them. It's disappointing when it turns out they just hit the reset button like every other SG before it.

I think people really overuse the term "Reset button" when it comes to SciFi. I can't think of one heavily SciFi show that didn't use Time Travel and then have it erased at the end of the episode. Its a great story device, and allows you to show things that otherwise people would never get to see. If you don't have Time Travel storylines, there are some elements like how somoene would spend their last moments, that otherwise you would only get to see the moment a character died.

I was proud of the way Greer went out fighting like he did, and even seemed to be trying to uplift everyone around him with his "Get some, come on!" comments. That kind of stuff will fire other people up. TJ was still trying to save people even when bugs wee killing everyone, Eli didn't just hide in a corner scared he actually fought back and even followed Rush out to see if there was any chance he would have some last great idea.

How would we have seen any of that stuff otherwise? I know what people mean by "reset button" but it seems like a weird term to use cause nothing was really reset. Instead, it furthered the plot and character development ahead to the next episode.

Spoiler warning about Kino time travel.

As we see in Kino Episode 18, they found not one but two Kinos left over so none of the character development was really lost. Rush and Young got to find out they have something in common, people got to see Eli and TJs conversations. Everyone got to see Greer fight to the last breath, etc etc. The development stuck, just not the timeline.

- CB

Arica15
November 14th, 2009, 01:29 PM
I think Chloe was always going to be the character most open for....shall we say debate, as in terms of the story she is pretty useless, not being trained for anything remotely useful in the situation they find themselves in (however should they run into a party planet I'm sure they'll be ever thankful she came along!) - so either she was going to end up doing a skilled job with less than a weeks training or she was going to continue to be useless.

But I don't like to see character die....most of the time;)

EvilSpaceAlien
November 14th, 2009, 01:31 PM
I actaully like Chloe, so I felt no relief when she died. If it would have been someone like Spencer I would probably have been a little bit happier...

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 01:33 PM
Apparently you are not alone:(

I think people really overuse the term "Reset button" when it comes to SciFi. I can't think of one heavily SciFi show that didn't use Time Travel and then have it erased at the end of the episode. Its a great story device, and allows you to show things that otherwise people would never get to see. If you don't have Time Travel storylines, there are some elements like how somoene would spend their last moments, that otherwise you would only get to see the moment a character died.

I was proud of the way Greer went out fighting like he did, and even seemed to be trying to uplift everyone around him with his "Get some, come on!" comments. That kind of stuff will fire other people up. TJ was still trying to save people even when bugs wee killing everyone, Eli didn't just hide in a corner scared he actually fought back and even followed Rush out to see if there was any chance he would have some last great idea.

How would we have seen any of that stuff otherwise? I know what people mean by "reset button" but it seems like a weird term to use cause nothing was really reset. Instead, it furthered the plot and character development ahead to the next episode.

Spoiler warning about Kino time travel.

As we see in Kino Episode 18, they found not one but two Kinos left over so none of the character development was really lost. Rush and Young got to find out they have something in common, people got to see Eli and TJs conversations. Everyone got to see Greer fight to the last breath, etc etc. The development stuck, just not the timeline.

- CB
Exactly. This episode gave us...and even our characters. Moments to see how they would react, and what they would say if they were put into that kind of situation. I really do not see Eli...or Rush...saying the things they did if it was not a specific life and death situation, and then them waiting for it. And I do not think we would get to see Rush quite being that selfless for a while, that was a great moment for him. This episode was full of tremendous character moments.

JeBuSBrian
November 14th, 2009, 01:33 PM
I'm not saying they can't do time travel, but I think it would have been even more interesting if the '2nd' timeline was the end timeline, perhaps with a few less deaths, and the '3rd' timeline never started. The 'complete' reboot seems cheap.

Captain Obvious
November 14th, 2009, 01:38 PM
To feel slightly relieved when we saw Chloe die, 1st or 2nd time?

She is my least favorite character since she is the character cause of all the "soap opera" crap going on with Eli and Scott. Not to mention the teenager-ish blowout she had in the nightclub. So far all this girl has done is bring more emotional baggage that is more annoying than it is character development or arc development, at least to me.

When I saw her die from the bug, I stopped for a moment and said to myself, "no...really...hopefully." But then I remembered it is still Stargate where anyone and anything can die but be reborn shortly thereafter. And then they teased us again with her in the infirmary.

And by the way, who actually buys into Eli's obsession with her so quickly? Kind of creepy and definitely has a bit of stalking to it with him always zooming in on her with the Kino.

Ever hear of the phrase " you have to hit rock bottom before you can rebuild"?

I have a feeling she needs to go through all this garbage to become a very deep and dynamic character. Daniel Jackson had some pretty crappy interpersonal stories in the beginning too.

nemesis24
November 14th, 2009, 01:39 PM
I was actually disappointed because as soon as she died the second time i knew where the ep was heading - ie they send a kino back again telling the new arrivals on the planet what to do

Khentkawes
November 14th, 2009, 01:43 PM
Apparently, you're not the only one. :(

I wasn't relieved. First time, I knew wasn't final because there was obvious time travel going on (if you watched the previews). The second time... I found the timing quite dramatic, and I felt bad for Eli. So no. No relief from me.



She is my least favorite character since she is the character cause of all the "soap opera" crap going on with Eli and Scott. Not to mention the teenager-ish blowout she had in the nightclub. So far all this girl has done is bring more emotional baggage that is more annoying than it is character development or arc development, at least to me.

the "teenager-ish blowout" was when she was drunk. And it was funny! Sorry, I'm amused by the behavior of drunk people (in both fiction and real life). ;)

And she's also stood up to Rush. Twice. So I disagree with your statement about "all she has done..."

Ann_Ominous
November 14th, 2009, 01:46 PM
No, didn't make me happy. Just made it obvious that it had to be either time travel or alternate universe. I was expecting alternate universe. Must of missed something at the beginning that was the clue for time travel due to zoning out from boredom.....

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 01:48 PM
I was actually disappointed because as soon as she died the second time i knew where the ep was heading - ie they send a kino back again telling the new arrivals on the planet what to doNot predicting where episodes are going for the win:D
I did not realize what was going on until Scott was all alone there trying to head back for the gate:P


Apparently, you're not the only one. :(

I wasn't relieved. First time, I knew wasn't final because there was obvious time travel going on (if you watched the previews). The second time... I found the timing quite dramatic, and I felt bad for Eli. So no. No relief from me.



the "teenager-ish blowout" was when she was drunk. And it was funny! Sorry, I'm amused by the behavior of drunk people (in both fiction and real life). ;)

And she's also stood up to Rush. Twice. So I disagree with your statement about "all she has done..." copy cat:P
I do not think I would ever be happy that a main character died, unless they were plain evil or something. Like Telford....Telford is the only character that I might be happy to see die...or be in pain...or something. But that is a debate for another time.
I particularily was not happy this time at all either, quite the opposite. The timing of it, and the way it was handled...along with the assmption that this was Stargate that they would impossibly get the cure and then go back through the gate and TJ would come up with some brilliant solution. Her and then there deaths had quite the effect actually. And personally i think if anything it increases the sense of danger with me, none of these people are safe, if they can be killed off so horifically.

Sonicbluemustang
November 14th, 2009, 01:50 PM
If she ran around naked all the time on the show I'm sure everybody would love her character. So let not write her off yet. :)

Azzers
November 14th, 2009, 01:51 PM
No, not the only one.

But there are those of us on the other side that see a charecter like Chloe with the most possibilities. She's essentially a blank slate who's had her entire life and everything she is invalidated by her circumstances. She doesn't even have a set of transferable skills.

As I said on the other board, it actually would have been more interesting to me if the other three had died because I've never seen a show that would raise the stakes so high and so fast. Now that's not what they did, but it would have been interesting.

But Chloe dying? Not so much. And Scott dying neither for the record. I think there are too many on the Chloe/Eli ship honestly. Anyone who upsets it appears to be expendable.

JeBuSBrian
November 14th, 2009, 01:52 PM
And personally i think if anything it increases the sense of danger with me, none of these people are safe, if they can be killed off so horifically.

For me it just reinforced the fact that the reset button is a cheap ploy that the SG writers (for some reason) enjoy using as a crutch. For once, they did something awesome and killed off a bunch of people. They even did it twice! But then, oops, sorry viewers, reset so we can use these characters next episode.

It showed me that the SGU writers are afraid to kill off the main characters, and thus, that all the main characters are in fact "safe," at least until a season finale.

Classic Stargate. Classic failure of writing.

globex
November 14th, 2009, 01:53 PM
You were definitely not the only one. I cheered when I saw her die the first time. I was genuinely happy when she died 'for real' the second time, and mortified when it turned out to be a "To Be Continued" episode.
It's too early in this show's run to have to hit the "time travel" reset button. .

This

Cecil Brax
November 14th, 2009, 02:03 PM
For me it just reinforced the fact that the reset button is a cheap ploy that the SG writers (for some reason) enjoy using as a crutch. For once, they did something awesome and killed off a bunch of people. They even did it twice! But then, oops, sorry viewers, reset so we can use these characters next episode.

Classic Stargate. Classic failure of writing.

Well, if they killed off a bunch of main characters right away after building up a bunch of stories about them and investing time, money, and energy into promoting the show with these characters including promotional shots, etc etc, then they would actually lose money rather then make money. This is a buisness, lets not forget that there is alot of time and energy involved in making a show. Plus, I doubt they thought people would dislike some of the characters in the show so much and these episodes are filmed long before they are shot and we see them on screen. Something like 7 or 8 months worth of time go by. So killing off everyone so quickly wouldn't be a big shock because it would leak out long before like it did with Carson, Weir, Ford, and many others who were removed from the show in one way or another.

"Reset Button" as people call it isn't a ploy, its a device that allows them to show characters and interactions we would otherwise never get a chance to see until the character really died and then we wouldn't get to see how it helped them develop.

The only place character death can be done so easily without losing a ton of invested time and money into real actors is in Books, Comics, and Online Stories where you don't have to spend Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars promoting a character and paying real people real money to build and develop a concept.

Just some thoughts.

- CB

JeBuSBrian
November 14th, 2009, 02:07 PM
@Cecil Brax
Those are all valid points in the "meta" sense. But as far as immersion goes, it totally ruined it for me. Logically, I can understand why it is done. It's business, it's money. But as far as defending it as good story-telling, I can't, because it isn't good story-telling. It's a cop-out.

This show was marketed as a show with consequences. They could have lived up to that, and killed off one or two main characters and a handful of the "recurring extras". But they didn't.

mylestaylor
November 14th, 2009, 02:07 PM
That's the problem with TV, unfortunately: everyone feels like they have to like every character. Chloe does bring a lot of emotional and unnecessary baggage to the show, but life has a lot of emotional and unnecessary baggage and it would be too cliche if all of these people weren't that way. That's kind of the point of the whole show. These people are normal people with normal baggage. Get over it.

Lightning Ducj
November 14th, 2009, 02:09 PM
To feel slightly relieved when we saw Chloe die, 1st or 2nd time?

I wasn't.

IrishPisano
November 14th, 2009, 02:15 PM
i personally do not want chloe to die
and it's got nothing to do with my XY chromosome...

she is the 1 person on the ship who is involved with the Stargate program almost completely against her will and has absolutely nothing of value to contribute to the crew... no command or survival knowledge, no political expertise (to be used in dealing with the eventual problems between military and civilian cliques), no mathematical, physics, or Stargate knowledge.... nothing... her father died saving them, and she's cut off from her only family.....

i think there is a lot of story potential with her, exploring her sense of uselessness, and whether or not she can grow to be a very valuable component of the crew......

JeBuSBrian
November 14th, 2009, 02:16 PM
That's the problem with TV, unfortunately: everyone feels like they have to like every character. Chloe does bring a lot of emotional and unnecessary baggage to the show, but life has a lot of emotional and unnecessary baggage and it would be too cliche if all of these people weren't that way. That's kind of the point of the whole show. These people are normal people with normal baggage. Get over it.

Chloe is easily the character I like least on the show, but I would have been more satisfied if any character in the episode actually died, rather than get reset. The writers should make things matter, not just for character development, but to keep the show from being predictable. And the fact that they've now proven they are afraid to kill the main characters tells me that nothing that happens during any given episode really matters, because at the end of the day, they'll all still be there for the next episode.

Azzers
November 14th, 2009, 02:16 PM
i think there is a lot of story potential with her, exploring her sense of uselessness, and whether or not she can grow to be a very valuable component of the crew......

Thank you. I knew I couldn't be the only one who caught that.

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 02:17 PM
seeing her in future promo pics semi ruined it for me

leeman15251
November 14th, 2009, 02:25 PM
she is one of my favorite character. i really thought she was dead for a second.

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 02:26 PM
she is one of my favorite character. i really thought she was dead for a second.

i like that TJ interrupted eli to say she was dead. that's what made the moment so believable

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 03:32 PM
i liked how everyone died..all bloody and nasty like, its a nice change to getting shot in the back with a staff weapon

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 03:37 PM
i like how eli's death affected scott

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 03:42 PM
i like how eli's death affected scott
As did I

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 03:44 PM
eli is like the person enjoy having around and care about but never say it openly. thus scott's reaction

Replicator Todd
November 14th, 2009, 03:47 PM
i like how eli's death affected scott

I became a little afraid of Scott in the moment...

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 03:48 PM
I became a little afraid of Scott in the moment...

brain did wonderful he reacted like a normal person would.

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 03:51 PM
eli is like the person enjoy having around and care about but never say it openly. thus scott's reaction:indeed:
I also liked the reaction when the Eli on the message revealed his fears about his Mom. Then Scott tried...in some small way...to comfort him. I think Eli and Scott could be, and are, very good friends. Despite the snark that passes between them.
Honestly though, that is a bit worrisome. I think the most obvious Stargate- Stargate Universe comparison is the Eli/ Scott, and the Shep/ McKay, relationship. I like it so far, but it could be a bit too similar for many people's tastes....


I became a little afraid of Scott in the moment...
I thought the scene was a bit cliched....but on the other hand it is more of an indication like what Young said:
That he had a heart as big as a house.

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 03:54 PM
everyone is protective of eli due to the fact that he's a normal everyday person who just figured out a math proof

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 03:55 PM
everyone is protective of eli due to the fact that he's a normal everyday person who just figured out a math proof
Yeah but we did not see Young rushing over to give him a back thump:P

Khentkawes
November 14th, 2009, 04:53 PM
copy cat:P

Haha. Not intentionally. :)


I do not think I would ever be happy that a main character died, unless they were plain evil or something. Like Telford....Telford is the only character that I might be happy to see die...or be in pain...or something.

I wouldn't mind Telford being written out of the show somehow... but even with characters that I dislike, I don't actually rejoice to see them killed off. I just kind of shrug and move on.



But there are those of us on the other side that see a charecter like Chloe with the most possibilities. She's essentially a blank slate who's had her entire life and everything she is invalidated by her circumstances. She doesn't even have a set of transferable skills.

Agreed. She has a lot of potential.


That's the problem with TV, unfortunately: everyone feels like they have to like every character. Chloe does bring a lot of emotional and unnecessary baggage to the show, but life has a lot of emotional and unnecessary baggage and it would be too cliche if all of these people weren't that way. That's kind of the point of the whole show. These people are normal people with normal baggage. Get over it.

Completely agree. I'm tired of characters who seem to have everything all together. Sure, sometimes I get irritated with Chloe (or Eli, or Young) because of their emotional baggage, but it is more realistic. All people (in real life) have issues, and I have never met a real person who didn't get on my nerves now and then. So I don't have a problem with characters who are occasionally irritating or how occasionally act stupid, as long as they are still interesting to watch.



I also liked the reaction when the Eli on the message revealed his fears about his Mom. Then Scott tried...in some small way...to comfort him. I think Eli and Scott could be, and are, very good friends. Despite the snark that passes between them.

:indeed: That was a very nice moment between the two of them.

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Haha. Not intentionally. :)



I wouldn't mind Telford being written out of the show somehow... but even with characters that I dislike, I don't actually rejoice to see them killed off. I just kind of shrug and move on.



Agreed. She has a lot of potential.



Completely agree. I'm tired of characters who seem to have everything all together. Sure, sometimes I get irritated with Chloe (or Eli, or Young) because of their emotional baggage, but it is more realistic. All people (in real life) have issues, and I have never met a real person who didn't get on my nerves now and then. So I don't have a problem with characters who are occasionally irritating or how occasionally act stupid, as long as they are still interesting to watch.



:indeed: That was a very nice moment between the two of them.
Yeah I know:P. It gets hectic in here :S :D
I know, and I would not be happy seeing him die too...I like Lou Diamond Phillips too:D. I just want to see him move on...and I think he could easily be written out of the show given his behavior. Talk about a terrible expedition leader:S

Lightning Ducj
November 14th, 2009, 05:23 PM
I just want to see him move on...and I think he could easily be written out of the show given his behavior. Talk about a terrible expedition leader:S

I think, like all the characters so far, there is just more to him than we've seen. I don't mean in terms of agenda or motives but....we seem to get snippets of people's personality and often there seems to be a jumping to conclusions about their motivations that often get belied by following episodes. I have a hunch that Gen. O'Neill does not suffer incompetence under his command lightly so I would think that Telford has his position for a very good reason but we need to let it develop to see how it will flesh out

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 05:26 PM
I think, like all the characters so far, there is just more to him than we've seen. I don't mean in terms of agenda or motives but....we seem to get snippets of people's personality and often there seems to be a jumping to conclusions about their motivations that often get belied by following episodes. I have a hunch that Gen. O'Neill does not suffer incompetence under his command lightly so I would think that Telford has his position for a very good reason but we need to let it develop to see how it will flesh out
Jack his human...he can make mistakes, and has done so in the past. And I am sure Telford is very good at his job, and has a fantastic record. Its just....
it is clear that he holds some sort of personal vendetta/ grudge against Young...and a lot of other people, given how he treated Rush and Greer when he came on board. He just does not let people get away with messing with him....
my opinion anyways
But other then that you are rigt, I am sure that there is a lot more to him