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View Full Version : New Source of Medicine- The Shriekers? Spoilers for "Time"



Captain Obvious
November 14th, 2009, 01:19 PM
Well, we have in this episode the first example of something that can realistically be considered an "addition" to our medicinal stores. The venom of the little "Shriekers" had antibodies due to bacteria in the body of AT1 Rush. This would lead me to believe that any other bacteria in a human being could have caused antibodies in those creatures.

So, does TJ keep a few dozen as "pets", exposing them to pathogens to make antibodies in the same way current medical science uses horses to make snake antivenoms and tons of other medicines?

Will we see this venom used more? Who would have to feed the animals (my money is on Brody...I don't know why, I just see him being scared to death and being relegated to animal husbandry)

Speculations! Discussions! Exclamation marks!

Giantevilhead
November 14th, 2009, 01:26 PM
We don't know how far Rush went into the past. For all we know, he went back 50 years and the microbes killed 99% of the creature population before they evolved an immunity.

Captain Obvious
November 14th, 2009, 01:34 PM
We don't know how far Rush went into the past. For all we know, he went back 50 years and the microbes killed 99% of the creature population before they evolved an immunity.

Yes, but in theory they would have antibodies for any bacteria Rush had on him, not just the 1 from the water, since all his bacteria would have been foreign to them. There are many human illnesses caused by bacteria we carry within ourselves going haywire, making these critters venom a possible antibiotic for many types of common human illnesses!

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 04:26 PM
maybe those microbes were the ancestors of those creatures and rush went back in time millions of years..thats right the gate has been there for millions of years!

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Well, we have in this episode the first example of something that can realistically be considered an "addition" to our medicinal stores. The venom of the little "Shriekers" had antibodies due to bacteria in the body of AT1 Rush. This would lead me to believe that any other bacteria in a human being could have caused antibodies in those creatures.

So, does TJ keep a few dozen as "pets", exposing them to pathogens to make antibodies in the same way current medical science uses horses to make snake antivenoms and tons of other medicines?

Will we see this venom used more? Who would have to feed the animals (my money is on Brody...I don't know why, I just see him being scared to death and being relegated to animal husbandry)

Speculations! Discussions! Exclamation marks!I never thought of it like this....
My theory was that...since the disease was microrganisms...was that the venom was just naturally poisonous to them. As well as the crew. That is why it is so effective in 'small quantities', that the venom in very small quantities will just kill the microrganisms, and leave the rest of the host organism alone

knowles2
November 14th, 2009, 05:02 PM
Well I thought the venom just put Humans into a coma, once the body filtered it out, the person wakes up. It essentially harmeless to us humans unless I missed something.

As to the venom itself is just a natural anti biotic, which happens to be effective against the water virus, they just got lucky, very lucky, astronomically lucky or the destiny was just looking after it new toys.

Could it be useful for other bacterias an viruses encounter in the future possible, it could also be use a anaesthetics. which we also running low on.

So TJ should keep a few bottles of this venom around.

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 05:05 PM
Well I thought the venom just put Humans into a coma, once the body filtered it out, the person wakes up. It essentially harmeless to us humans unless I missed something.

As to the venom itself is just a natural anti biotic, which happens to be effective against the water virus, they just got lucky, very lucky, astronomically lucky or the destiny was just looking after it new toys.

Could it be useful for other bacterias an viruses encounter in the future possible, it could also be use a anaesthetics. which we also running low on.

So TJ should keep a few bottles of this venom around.
I think its likely that the Destiny detected the virus before they did and chose a planet with a suitable cure, not luck at all.

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 05:43 PM
I think its likely that the Destiny detected the virus before they did and chose a planet with a suitable cure, not luck at all.

i think the only problem with that is im sure that destiny is aware of how much time has passed and whether or not such creatures would still be around.

Vapor
November 14th, 2009, 05:52 PM
I would LOVE it if they kept a few of the creatures onboard. There are at least two ideas for an interesting episode there.

One is the creatures obviously get loose, then mate and have dozens of baby creatures running around that they have to systematically destroy/catch.

Also, if there's an intruder onboard and they enter TJ's sickbay and there aren't any weapons around, they can just sick the creatures on the intruder.

That would be awesome. :cameron:

Col.Foley
November 14th, 2009, 06:10 PM
i think the only problem with that is im sure that destiny is aware of how much time has passed and whether or not such creatures would still be around.
Which is why I think it chose that planet....it just seemed to be the best option...

aretood2
November 14th, 2009, 06:16 PM
I would LOVE it if they kept a few of the creatures onboard. There are at least two ideas for an interesting episode there.

One is the creatures obviously get loose, then mate and have dozens of baby creatures running around that they have to systematically destroy/catch.

Also, if there's an intruder onboard and they enter TJ's sickbay and there aren't any weapons around, they can just sick the creatures on the intruder.

That would be awesome. :cameron:

That's not a bad Idea at all. there are supposed to be someAliens who take Rush, perhaps they run into these aliens...

Giantevilhead
November 14th, 2009, 06:51 PM
Yes, but in theory they would have antibodies for any bacteria Rush had on him, not just the 1 from the water, since all his bacteria would have been foreign to them. There are many human illnesses caused by bacteria we carry within ourselves going haywire, making these critters venom a possible antibiotic for many types of common human illnesses!

But everyone is already healthy. They wouldn't have been taken to Icarus without going through a physical examination. Whatever micro-organisms they already carried with them are harmless.

Keeping the creature around could be dangerous since they may be carrying diseases that humans have no defense against.


maybe those microbes were the ancestors of those creatures and rush went back in time millions of years..thats right the gate has been there for millions of years!

The kinos and bones wouldn't couldn't have been next to the gate for all that time.

MattSilver 3k
November 14th, 2009, 08:32 PM
You know, I wonder if these Shriekers will come back to haunt them. It may be a running theme that something that happens offworld will come back and bite the crew on the ass episodes later.
They went to the desert planet, and brought back the Dust Devil. The Dust Devil drinks their water, and they're forced to mine water from Hoth. The water from Hoth has micro-organisms in it, and that makes them all sick. The cure is on the Jungle Planet, and they bring back two Kinos from alternate timelines and some Shriekers to synthesise a cure.

What next? The cure makes everybody nuts and the Destiny is forced to fly into a sun with its shield down? The Shriekers on board break free and turn people into zombies (Or an Alien homage)? Or...

Daniela
November 14th, 2009, 09:53 PM
Why hasn't SGC found a cure for HIV/AIDs and other viruses/diseases yet with all the technology and medicine they may come across from other alien species? I also wonder if they've found cures whether they've introduced these on Earth?

Pharaoh Atem
November 14th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Why hasn't SGC found a cure for HIV/AIDs and other viruses/diseases yet with all the technology and medicine they may come across from other alien species? I also wonder if they've found cures whether they've introduced these on Earth?

no way to get it back to earth. to make the med you would need samples and stuff like that doesn't travel when using stones. and the destiny can't dial earth.

and TJ doesn't have all that fancy stuff with her on destiny she's just a medic

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 10:00 PM
Why hasn't SGC found a cure for HIV/AIDs and other viruses/diseases yet with all the technology and medicine they may come across from other alien species? I also wonder if they've found cures whether they've introduced these on Earth?

who says they havent. they have found some medical substances like in Emancipation.

i think that if all of asudden technology and medicine pops up people woul dget suspicious, especially the conspiracy theorist who will try to convince people that the government had been sitting on this stuff for years.

escyos
November 14th, 2009, 10:01 PM
no way to get it back to earth. to make the med you would need samples and stuff like that doesn't travel when using stones. and the destiny can't dial earth.

and TJ doesn't have all that fancy stuff with her on destiny she's just a medic

i think she was speaking in general....in the universe folder...

Ann_Ominous
November 14th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Most of the worlds that SG and SGA visit are not as technologically advanced as Earth. Those that are like the Tollans don't want to help.

Plus, it's not that easy to find cures for diseases. Other than a general total immune boosting drug like in the episode "The Cure" the odds are that something that cures a specific disease on another world will cure a different specific disease on Earth are slim. Viruses are tricky and mutate rapidly. HIV/AIDS crossed over from monkeys and only in the past century. I don't remember seeing any monkeys on any of the worlds visited. It is unlikely they would have the same virus. Even if they did, they probably wouldn't recognize it. HIV takes a while to kill.

Daniela
November 14th, 2009, 10:20 PM
Well I put this in the Universe thread because Eli's mom has HIV. Perhaps it belongs in the general Stargate thread.

Nightfighter89
November 14th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Put quite simply, because Reed Richards is Useless (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless)

SBN
November 14th, 2009, 11:39 PM
A realistic reason may be that you simply can not cure everything, even if you have the cure. A sad reality is that war, disease, murder, etc.. are in a way population controllers. We have a planet that can support X number of humans, with a population of Y. In truth this planet has not been able to support the current levels of populations for quite some time.

So the question then is not why have they not cured these diseases, but why would they continue to keep the Stargate program secret? I think they have probably enough habitable planets to begin earth colonies. I think this was one of the faults in SG1 is that the story just grew out of control. The whole IOC thing is just confirmation to me that there is no touch with reality.

Believe me, if they actually had here a stargate and had habitable planets, you would see a hell of a lot of people packing their bags heading to the new world.

dahok
November 14th, 2009, 11:40 PM
Put quite simply, because Reed Richards is Useless (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless)

I guess they don't want to bother with it being developed in the SG 'verse. All of our technology is used for ships, power generation, and weapons.

Another thing, it'd make injuries and illnesses less dramatic if we replicated something as simple as the Goa'uld healing device. That itself is far more powerful than anything we have today.

Captain Obvious
November 15th, 2009, 03:10 AM
But everyone is already healthy. They wouldn't have been taken to Icarus without going through a physical examination. Whatever micro-organisms they already carried with them are harmless.

Harmless to US, because we have an evolved immunity. The human gut alone contains over 7,000 species of bacteria, let alone what we carry in our bloodstream. Can you imagine the biological catastrophe that would be to a completely foreign organism/ecosystem? Most of the life in the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies didn't have problems because of interference from the Ancients.

Also, there are plenty of things that can go wrong with the human body due to bacteria, viruses and yeasts our bodies carry with us all the time going out of balance. Just for one (gross) example-

Yeast carried normally in females reproductive systems can (and somewhat often does) mutate into Candidiasis (aka thrush) and kill you dead. It is not uncommon, especially in countries with severely deficient nutrition.

I wouldn't be surprised if other species in this galaxies saw us as a bunch of " Typhoid Mary" 's, spreading disease and destruction wherever we go.

ckwongau
November 15th, 2009, 03:15 AM
there were so many advance medical tech discover by SGC over the last decade.


Stargate franchise try to make the SG universe almopst the same as our real world, if they really have the cure for HIV,then the governement is hidding it from public.
What could justifiy world governement for hidding a cure for HIV when millions of people are dying because of HIV ?

Hidding the truth about alien is one thing ,It is justify because the public could not handle it and cause world chaos(well that is the explain they use )
but hidding the cure of Aids ? is also = murdering millions of people .

So the writer can not have cure of Aids in the SG universe or the treatment is nowhere near human trial.

It is abit silly, when the have the tech to cure dead people.

Captain Obvious
November 15th, 2009, 03:18 AM
Why hasn't SGC found a cure for HIV/AIDs and other viruses/diseases yet with all the technology and medicine they may come across from other alien species? I also wonder if they've found cures whether they've introduced these on Earth?

They have, it is called tritonen. The problem is the science behind it. Its not like the FDA would let them cure stuff instantly without a testing process and all.

Captain Obvious
November 15th, 2009, 03:23 AM
there were so many advance medical tech discover by SGC over the last decade.


Stargate franchise try to make the SG universe almopst the same as our real world, if they really have the cure for HIV,then the governement is hidding it from public.
What could justifiy world governement for hidding a cure for HIV when millions of people are dying because of HIV ?

Hidding the truth about alien is one thing ,It is justify because the public could not handle it and cause world chaos(well that is the explain they use )
but hidding the cure of Aids ? is also = murdering millions of people .

So the writer can not have cure of Aids in the SG universe or the treatment is nowhere near human trial.

It is abit silly, when the have the tech to cure dead people.

because if you cure diseases, the industrial complex known as big pharma collapses. Essentially cure any disease nowadays and you cost yourself more money than you will ever make.

Just look up the information on the male contraceptive drugs. Even though close to 95% of men surveyed said they would gladly purchase the product, they decided they won't make enough money off of it due to much lower demand in other drugs if it was available.

Encoder
November 15th, 2009, 03:58 AM
Man I was gonna write something about your post but your sig offended me!

:sheppard:

Captain Obvious
November 15th, 2009, 04:41 AM
Man I was gonna write something about your post but your sig offended me!

:sheppard:

whose sig? I firmly believe in the old phrase " spare the rod, spoil the child"

knowles2
November 15th, 2009, 09:28 AM
Just did a rewatch. An I now relies the venom may not be good for that much.

The microbe kills by attacking the nervous system of the patents, when they reach sufficient numbers. The Venom does the same, causing the nervous system to shut down putting the victim into a deep but recoverable coma, close to death as you can be with out dieing, this protected the nervous system from the microbe allowing our immune system to developed antibodies to kill it or our bodies simply to flush it from our system.

This form of treatment is use to treat rabies an other diseases which attacks the nervous system but does not cause any permanent damage.

Still good as a anaesthetic.

Ann_Ominous
November 15th, 2009, 09:51 AM
Just did a rewatch. An I now relies the venom may not be good for that much.

The microbe kills by attacking the nervous system of the patents, when they reach sufficient numbers. The Venom does the same, causing the nervous system to shut down putting the victim into a deep but recoverable coma, close to death as you can be with out dieing, this protected the nervous system from the microbe allowing our immune system to developed antibodies to kill it or our bodies simply to flush it from our system.

This form of treatment is use to treat rabies an other diseases which attacks the nervous system but does not cause any permanent damage.

Still good as a anaesthetic.

Rabies is one of the few germs that has a longer incubation period than the time required to develop an immune system response from a vaccination. That's why you can cure rabies with a rabies vaccine, but you can't cure the flu with a flu vaccine.

This micro-organism also had a long incubation time.

Nightfighter89
November 15th, 2009, 10:25 AM
there were so many advance medical tech discover by SGC over the last decade.


Stargate franchise try to make the SG universe almopst the same as our real world, if they really have the cure for HIV,then the governement is hidding it from public.
What could justifiy world governement for hidding a cure for HIV when millions of people are dying because of HIV ?

Hidding the truth about alien is one thing ,It is justify because the public could not handle it and cause world chaos(well that is the explain they use )
but hidding the cure of Aids ? is also = murdering millions of people .

So the writer can not have cure of Aids in the SG universe or the treatment is nowhere near human trial.

It is abit silly, when the have the tech to cure dead people.

Not saving someone, even if you are able, does not equate to murdering them. You can debate the ethics all day long, and surely if someone is hanging off a cliff, unless they were a terrible person who deserved death through and through, you would be a pretty rotten guy/gal to not give them a hand up. So long as you did not push them off that cliff or were not responsible for them having ended up hanging off that cliff in the first place though, you aren't murdering them. Condemning them to die maybe, which is related, but not the same.

On a different note, unless you are not a native English speaker and therefore might understandably have trouble with conjugation and grammar in general (that's not sarcasm, I know a second language, I know it can be hard), it would be nice of you to put more effort into your posts so as to not sound like a mook.

jds1982
November 15th, 2009, 11:53 AM
On a different note, unless you are not a native English speaker and therefore might understandably have trouble with conjugation and grammar in general (that's not sarcasm, I know a second language, I know it can be hard), it would be nice of you to put more effort into your posts so as to not sound like a mook.

Here's my problem with this, you acknowledge a reason why ckwongau might not be posting in proper English. You even try to make yourself seem sympathetic, and yet you make a rude comment anyway. Why? What did it add to your post or the discussion? Wouldn't it have been easier to not say anything at all? You just ended up making yourself look like a jerk.

Ann_Ominous
November 15th, 2009, 11:57 AM
That's a no-win situation. I don't think that there is a way to post about that without it coming across as rude to somebody no matter how you intend it. Better to just send it in a pm.

Nightfighter89
November 15th, 2009, 12:56 PM
Here's my problem with this, you acknowledge a reason why ckwongau might not be posting in proper English. You even try to make yourself seem sympathetic, and yet you make a rude comment anyway. Why? What did it add to your post or the discussion? Wouldn't it have been easier to not say anything at all? You just ended up making yourself look like a jerk.

I am a jerk. More often I use the term ******* but I guess it's just a matter of preference. I'm also the nicest guy you could ever hope to meet. I'll bend over backwards to help someone and I always try to see the other person's side of things. I have no tolerance for bull**** though. I agree that in the grand scheme of things it probably would have been all around better for me to say nothing, but I've seen posts on /b/ (when I feel brave enough to venture into that cesspool) where the English language is butchered less than that.

Rereading that post, it does seem more to me that the person is probably not a native English speaker. Be that the case, I apologize. We'll never really know though, since we have no way of verifying anything. So even this argument makes us all a little bit retarded, dunnit?:cameron:

garhkal
November 15th, 2009, 03:18 PM
maybe those microbes were the ancestors of those creatures and rush went back in time millions of years..thats right the gate has been there for millions of years!

Why would he go back that far when the Kino didn't? Or are you saying the Kino has a limitless powersupply?

Col.Foley
November 15th, 2009, 03:26 PM
Why would he go back that far when the Kino didn't? Or are you saying the Kino has a limitless powersupply?
I think its likely that the power supply drained a long long long time ago, they find it...discover it....find it with a full database...and then plug it into the ship in order to see what is going on.

ckwongau
November 15th, 2009, 07:17 PM
I am a jerk. More often I use the term ******* but I guess it's just a matter of preference. I'm also the nicest guy you could ever hope to meet. I'll bend over backwards to help someone and I always try to see the other person's side of things. I have no tolerance for bull**** though. I agree that in the grand scheme of things it probably would have been all around better for me to say nothing, but I've seen posts on /b/ (when I feel brave enough to venture into that cesspool) where the English language is butchered less than that.

Rereading that post, it does seem more to me that the person is probably not a native English speaker. Be that the case, I apologize. We'll never really know though, since we have no way of verifying anything. So even this argument makes us all a little bit retarded, dunnit?:cameron:

Thanks for your constructive criticism,no apology needed, i often wrote what i though in my head first without checking my grammar .My writings should be better after that many year living in an Engish speaking country.One of the reason i post on the forum is to improve my writing skill.
It is better someone tell me than laughing at me behind my back.

Now get back to the topic.
If the govenement has a cure for HIV ,and withholding it from public.
It is the same as murder, when children , father, mother ,baby are infected by HIV , and Lives are destroy by this disease.

Villages in Africa and china are wipe out by it, if an organisation or government has a cure and not releasing it , then it is genocide.

now Nightfighter89, can you give me some constructive criticism on my grammar.

Count
November 15th, 2009, 07:50 PM
The other problem with "curing diseases" in the SG universe is another politics one. When big companies have patents over things like genomes and the like, they can't realisticly release a cure if it exploits another company's patents. Even if it is the government, they can't override the law when the feel fit (only the UN).

So if Nirrti's gene manipulator can cure a genetic disorder like ALS, Crohn's or the like, if the genes that are changed belong to a company, they are fresh outta luck.

Horus Guard
November 15th, 2009, 08:18 PM
(I think this has been said somewhere else but anyways) the creatures couldn't have devolped an immunity to the microorganism if Rush never went back in time in the first place, the vemon cured Scott in the first time line BEFORE all the time traveling business. So at best it could used as an anti-biotic or an anesthetic

Lord Serapsis
November 16th, 2009, 12:33 AM
The other problem with "curing diseases" in the SG universe is another politics one. When big companies have patents over things like genomes and the like, they can't realisticly release a cure if it exploits another company's patents. Even if it is the government, they can't override the law when the feel fit (only the UN).
Technically they can, though in the US it may be ruled as unconstitutional. The UN, in the real world at least, and AFAIK in Stargate (it's not Doctor Who, with its uber UN!) can't 'override a nation's laws.'

So if Nirrti's gene manipulator can cure a genetic disorder like ALS, Crohn's or the like, if the genes that are changed belong to a company, they are fresh outta luck.
It almost certainly could. But if you push a button wrong on that thing, people get melted. Nirrti was fiendishly inventive, and with thousands of years of experience, and she couldn't use it right. While the mutant guy (I forget his name) too Nirrti's knowledge, we don't know if his skill in the use of that thing goes anywhere beyond hitting undo.

I don't see a problem with them not having an easy cure for HIV; it is, in reality, a very very dangerous disease. Given the failure of the nanite experiments in Atlantis, I expect the only way they've got to cure it that would work is offering to clone and transfer her mind, as the Asgard did, or to put her in touch with a tok'ra needing a host.

And Maryann Wallace the tok'ra would amuse the hell out of me.

Captain Obvious
November 16th, 2009, 12:51 AM
(I think this has been said somewhere else but anyways) the creatures couldn't have devolped an immunity to the microorganism if Rush never went back in time in the first place, the vemon cured Scott in the first time line BEFORE all the time traveling business. So at best it could used as an anti-biotic or an anesthetic

sometimes in temporal causality, effect precedes cause. Also, Rush went back in time in the first alternate timeline before scott woke up.

Nightfighter89
November 16th, 2009, 06:45 AM
Now get back to the topic.
If the government has a cure for HIV ,and is withholding it from public:
It is the same as murder considering that often children, fathers, and mothers are infected by HIV, and whole families are destroy by this disease.

Villages in Africa and china are wipe out by AIDS, so if an organization or government has a cure and not releasing it, then it is genocide.

now Nightfighter89, can you give me some constructive criticism on my grammar?

Gladly :cameron:. Changes are in bold, some part I kinda had to infer what you meant.

I still stand by the assertion hat not saving someone does not equate to murdering them though.

garhkal
November 20th, 2009, 03:59 PM
I think its likely that the power supply drained a long long long time ago, they find it...discover it....find it with a full database...and then plug it into the ship in order to see what is going on.

Which makes even less sense, since we know hard drives DO lose data after a while due to loss of power (admittedly it is a good few yeasr), and since rush;es body had decomposed to just a skeleton (heck only a skull) that was imo sufficient to start degrading the data if not lose it entirely.